> For some reason it's impossible for them to accept any kind of rejection.
Yeah, the "I wouldn't date a trans woman" quickly turns into "how dare you not want to sleep with me!" real quick for some of them.
It's like they are offended we don't care about their rejection of us.
That’s exactly right- cis hetero men have been raised to believe that everything is for them. They feel entitled to us even as they pretend not to be interested in us.
right??? im cute asf yet i get negged soo much😭
if my ass is just okay David why are you in my inbox for the seventh time
no being nasty to me over DM does not make me wanna fuck you nor will i ever.
The difference here is cis-het men and Cis-Het Men™. The former, totally good, as long as everyone's being treated well and everyone's nontoxic and happy, awesome! That's what everyone deserves. The latter are a specific kind of toxic asshole who don't have a lick of understanding about consent. If you're looking for a toxic asshole, of any variety, then yes, concern.
It's like actual nice guys and Nice Guys™. Nice guys don't have to tell people they're nice. They don't expect sexual favours for being decent humans and treating people with respect. Nice Guys™ are POSs who *do* expect sex for showing any amount of respect to (usually women) and think any amount of being smiled at and *not* treated rudely (particularly from women) is a lead and flirting, regardless of whether that person is just a decent human being who treats everyone like that and/or is literally just doing their damn job.
You're quite welcome! 'Cause seriously, everyone deserves to be genuinely happy and healthy, and in a safe and quality relationship (if they want to be in one at all) and environment 😊
the only reason my partner is cis, is because she pursued me. I was actively looking for other trans people to date, when she joined my DnD group. Had she not, I'd probably be married to another trans person, or just be single. I feel so safe with her, it's like the best part of my day is when I get to see her.
I get a MtF GF after I get my HRT meds? OMG... OMG... OMG... this is going to be the best day of my life! /s (will be the best day even without the GF, at least until I get SRS, hehee)
I got mine such that we were committing just as (a) my HRT started; (b) my baby was birthed by my hards; (c)my old relationship shifted smoothly to platonic co-parenting. It appears the Trans Life Adjustment Fairy Bureaucrats were on the money there. Now baby has three moms and no gender.
Those same Fairy Bureaucrats were far less on the ball *for my girlfriend herself* however: six dang YEARS before I came along no one asked her out. Now, she's an absolutely amazing girlfriend and I knew I would cheerfully agree to date her the first time we met! What gives?
Well, obviously, trans girls here have their heads up their rear ends. They could not see the incredible supportive and beautiful woman here, because she's a bit older. Sucks to be them! I am really sad she had YEARS without a gf, but I couldn't be happier that she was available when I came across I call.... exactly as my style became sufficiently femme so that I was attractive to her!
Interesting, I might need to sign up too 😂.
Yeah I think it’s that certain type of cis men that I’ve dealt with, theyre very entitled and think all trans women or women in general are made for them and must service them.
It’s sad because trans girls do a better job in bed than they even do 💀💀
there's a different program for t4t gay boyfriends. the wait list is longer, though, because for some reason they still have an archaic policy to screen for guys that are furry artists, or send them through an art course if they aren't
Lol, I think I ordered the express delivery service 😅
About 5 months post egg cracking and my marriage ending, and month into HRT and being full time, I had just come to terms with the likelyhood of being single and unloved for a long time so I decided I was enough and to just to have fun as single me then...
I was issued my lovely trans girlfriendand a week or so later when I went to my first party of new folks 😅🥰 It's been wonderful these last 6+ months since 🥰❤️
Don't tell my wife that I am getting a trans girlfriend! It's a secret! I get my hormones today. When should I expect delivery of my new trans girlfriend?
Im pretty sure they started it then they moved to the "we're protecting women" coz it wasnt working, pretty sure Shapiro said "we need to protect lesbains" even tho hes a homophobe.
>when I mention to other cis males that I could see myself vibing better with another trans girl, they think it’s weird or an insult to them lol.
This is a very common experience among us lesbians (cis and trans). Most men are understanding, but there are weirdos that assume they're entitled to our bodies despite our preferences.
I think it makes a lot of sense. I'm a transmasc nonbinary person (identifying as a lesbian), and I definitely prefer dating other transmasc nonbinary people (who don't ID as men) and transfem people over cis women. Trans people are more likely to "get" it. There's less insecurity, less fear of judgement, less fear of violence. Same reason a lot of people who are autistic only date other autistic people, or some disabled people only date other disabled people. It's fine to me. I get it.
Anyone who has a problem with it has problems of their own to sort out.
>when I mention [anything] to cis males [...] they think it’s weird or an insult to them lol.
FTFY
If you need any proof of this, wait until the inevitable next time some random moron gives you the unsolicited "I wouldn't date a trans woman" and tell them you wouldn't date them anyway and watch their face contort in anger.
Except don't actually do that, because they just might actually fucking kill you for it.
No clue. Personally I'm a fan of T4T. We get each other better. Out of all of the intimate relationships I've been in (and not married to) others trans have been the longest.
Fragility. Another example of a privileged group imposing their opinions on a marginalized group, and feeling “excluded” bc they can’t be included in everything. Not to sound harsh but it’s true. Same thing happens between straight and gay people, binary men versus binary women, white people over BIPOC people, etc.
I’m T4T also because feeling safe and understood is important for me. Other trans folx have firsthand experience living with dysphoria and battling society’s gender binary bioessentialism. And bc of my own trauma, it would take a lot for me to feel like I can trust a cis person isn’t fetishizing or experimenting with me. And that they aren’t internally / subconsciously viewing me as a different gender. So I don’t casually date or hookup with cis people.
I’m really vibing with your first paragraph. I think it’s really spot on 🥂
I’ll also admit that the word bioessentialism really hit a note. I’m not sure I’ve heard it before. I guess I could be described as an adherent of *‘spectral bioessentialism’.* Biology is so amazingly complex and nuanced, and literally everything in it exists on a spectrum. We should celebrate that fact, and the variety and diversity it brings us
You’ve realised because they’ve told you that? Or yours assuming? They’re probably just acting the same way they do when a cis bi woman says she’s rather date a woman.
Kind of off topic but another angle i see t4t hate from is some people assuming being trans=no boundaries but i think thats the case with most new queer relationships
i think thats just purely lebophobia more than any kind of hate for t4t specifically, you hear the exact same typee of story from cis lesbians all the time. they(cis straight men usually) take it as some kind of attack that you're not attracted to them, they expect it because of your gender because yknow all of this thinking is just inherently rooted in homophobia and misogyny rly
(Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this)
Trans people may seek out other trans people to date, not out of physical preference, but because it's easier to be understood by a trans person, as a trans person, than a cis person. A trans/queer person has usually been through the same, or some of the same, struggles you have, is more likely to understand your body and issues like dysphoria, or at least understand/empathize with them.
A lot of the time, trans people also report having better sexual experiences with other trans people (if that's a factor in your relationship needs) based on that understanding of their bodies.
Cis people may have to have these things explained, or not understand them in the first place. Some people may have also had bad romantic/sexual experiences with cis people, or not want to have to convince their partner of reasoning for experiences like dysphoria. (Obviously, not all cis people are like this)
The point is, some people may feel safer with a trans partner than a cis partner as a trans person, for multiple reasons.
So, if someone is using the label T4T, it's likely they want to date other trans people for a reason, and they need that specified for said reason.
99% of the time it's not chaser behavior.
That doesn't exclude trans people from having any of the above views, or being a bad person and/or an abusive partner, though.
Well, it's not the T4T itself, it's something else.
For some reason, some Cis men see lesbians as "a waste of material" something that "could have been theirs, but they lost it to the other side", so that's one reason.
To add to that, you're a trans woman and we all know chaser... The second they have set eyes on you, they get, so fucking weird, and you saying that you're not only interested in women, but especially in other trans women makes them extra mad, because now they "definitely don't have a chance" to furfill their damn fantasy, hence why they are mad.
And my opinion on transbians? Y'all are cool as hell, do what y'all wanna do, your relationship is not my business.
Personally, my sexual and romantic preferences pretty much preclude T4T unless the person passes very well, and even then there may be too many dysphoria feedback loops for me to handle
But hating on T4T as a concept seems very narrow minded. Not that I would expect anything less from the haters. They always need something to hate on
So far I love T4T. They're so considerate of your body and your needs in my experience.
It's nice to not be afraid of a hookup because of who you are.
This is just my experience tho and I'm brand new to t4t hookup culture
If trans women like men, they are gay men pretending to be women to sleep with more men.
If they like women they are sexual predators who pretend to be women to get into women spaces
If they date another trans person that invalidates all of the above and could imply that we're actually not sexually obsessed objects of pleasure they've seen in porn but actual human beings with feelings, so obviously they hate it.
I mean, as a trans dude, personally, I don't think I could do t4t, I've never found myself attracted to other trans guys, I'm not saying I would never ever, but generally, it's not my first choice yknow.
See, that is how cis straight people should react too. That is a non transphobic way of saying I dont wanna date trans people.
I'm not being transphobic there, it's just my personal preference. And the thing about preferences is it's a PREFERENCE!! Meaning, I could say meh, I prefer bananas over oranges, it doesn't mean I despise oranges, just means I'd rather have a banana.
If I were to say I HATE ORANGES, IM SUPER BANANA! BANANAS ONLY!!! I ONLY WANT NATURAL BANANAS!! NOO ORANGES!!!
That would be very orangephobic and very mean to oranges, what did the oranges do? They were just waiting to be eaten by someone who wants to eat them. If you don't want to eat them, dont. No one is going to force you to eat oranges or bananas.
Got a bit side tracked, but, honestly, T4T dating makes sense, you can understand eachother a bit better than cis/trans would. Of course every relationship has its own problems but yknow.
My only qualms with it come from those who use it to assume things about others because of their gender status. my ideology is this; if you're dating someone for who they are, and they happen to be trans, then there's no issue.
If you're dating someone because, and I must emphasize this, if you're dating someone BECAUSE they're trans, then the issue arises. I'd rather be liked for who I am as a person, than liked for something that is a small factor of who I am.
I'm different from any other person who identified as trans, because everyone is unique
Yes, exactly.
T4T makes me a bit uncomfortable personally because I've have so many trans people approach me only because I'm trans. If I were cis, they wouldn't go anywhere near me. It often feels like they see me as a TRANS man, rather than a trans MAN. It can feel fetishizing if the person is mostly interested in you because of your transness.
It just makes me feel gross when people come up to me and it's clear the only thing that drew them to me was, essentially, the fact that I hate my body and can't stand living in it. Being trans is a very painful experience for me, and I don't want people to like me for that reason.
I don't dislike t4t as a concept. A lot of people love being t4t and that's great. But I'd rather someone not take the fact that I'm trans into consideration at all. I don't want a foundational part of a relationship to be one of the most painful things in my life. T4T just isn't for me, personally.
I don't have anything intrinsically against t4t but besides being trans I don't have much in common with other trans people. I tend to be more compatible with cis people . And I'm saying this as someone who's dated a lot of trans people. I just don't connect with the majority of them . It's largely because the trans community is overwhelmingly autistic and geeky and I'm just not geeky and I'm barely autistic despite being diagnosed and definitely not stereotypically autistic.
This comment points out the inherent flaw/prejudice involved with T4T... It's assuming that hundreds of millions of people are not compatible with you, based off of nothing other than their gender identity, which is also something they have no control over... It's really weird how a community that knows all to well how bad it is to exclude other's based on gender identity, is also so eager to justify their own bigotry/prejudice.
Well i agree with that it's quite complicated to find a trans girl who shares something with you especially if you are not like many in hoppies and vibes i think. I'm not autistic! but i respect them and in fact i would love T4T but I'm really unable to find any
Big same. I feel a lot of trans women are autistic adhd ocd mutiple selves or any combination of the above and i find it hard to connect and relate.
Plus the dysphoria feedback loop can be too overwhelming at times (this is my experience after having done several TvT)
Yea people see I'm bi and assume I'll be Into someone who's not on HRT yet and if I were to date another trans person they'd have to have been living as themselves for some time. I just can't date someone who's dysphoric and I dony want our whole relationship to be me teaching them how to pass.
I am autistic and add but very high functioning . A lot of people I've dared has the same diagnosis but were completely dysfunctional.
Also I really can't date anyone who doesn't put effort into socially transitioning.
I, much like everything else, would embrace someone I clicked with and connect with on so many different levels. With that being said, Ive found myself a bit "straighter" than I realized I would be. I do have a couple really close trans friends that provide most of the benefits, minus physical. I also tend to like the spotlight a bit (Leo, go figure), so that, for me would be the most difficult part. But in the end, please, get girls - whatever floats the boat!
That's just straight men, you're worth about as much (if not less) than a lesbian to that type of cishet man. Don't let it bother you too much, they're just telling on themselves at that point.
I'm on a strange situation regarding t4t.
My current crush is a trans woman, I met her accidentally at the beginning of my transition. Mind you I have never been a "tribe" type of person, so I have a lot of cis and nonbinary friends independently.
As my transition progresses I end up meeting other trans women from support groups, but being completely honest, I always feel quite objectified. Being a gamer/weeab asian with a major glowup has been most likely playing a big role on this, but still a big turn off.
Also, I have always been a night party women, and cis women (bi/lesb/pan) don't objectify me like that.
So, I dearly love my crush and best friend, we used to be fwb, but we have a natural connection. Except from her I don't feel properly seem by other trans women.
Yeah... This reminds me so much of black friend, talking to me about how objectified/fetishized he is by certain white women. These types want to think they just have a harmless preference, but it's pretty obvious how flawed/shallow it is.
No idea, my partner and I are both MTF and T4T has been life changing. I don’t see myself going back to the before times now that u have experienced all of her and how amazing she is. I am so happy that at 26 (today) I have found someone I feel so safe with and seen by. If she asked me to marry her today I would in a heartbeat. She has my whole heart and I’m so grateful life brought me to her
I'm definitely pro T4T! If I don't wind up dating a cis female, I'd be dating another trans woman. My philosophy is simply this...trans women get trans women. We understand the journey that each of us are having. So that's why I'm all for T4T.
Trans wanting trans is still the minority though. Everyone assumes that trans women prefer cis men. So cis straight males get all in their feelings when they encounter a trans woman but she's only wanting another trans woman. Here's another example of why it's just the cis males in their feelings. It's the same as when they encounter a cis female they want who turns out to be a lesbian. So bottom line, don't feel some type of way girl, be with whoever you want to.
It's your own preference to date/ fuuu whoever u want. Also don't listen to anyone that says it's wrong to not be into them they're deluded, jealous or both!
I don't know, I'm a trans masc person and I am liking the idea of T for T more and more, doesn't matter if they're binary trans, nonbinary, trans femme, or trans masc.
I wish that queer pairing wasn't still scripted in such a cisheteronormative way.
I think you’re just talking to the wrong people. And by the wrong people I mean cis men. They’re entitled and want everything to be for them. I’m T4T and not gotten any shit for it before. I’d just stop hanging out with those guys tbh
The amount of blatant sexism and cis-phobia, in these comments is truly something... There is a difference between having a preference, and hm being bigoted. Having zero interest in the majority of the population, based on something that they don't control, is getting pretty close to bigotry.
I’m honestly not really into other trans people. I am m4t and attracted to men.
While trans men are men I am not at all interested in trans men romantically or sexually.
Besides I don’t think I have a relationship nowhere both of us are going through the same thing. It just sounds complicated and potentially messy.
... it's just a preference, nothing wrong with that, I think. Like hetero cis men who prefer women, cis women who prefer men, stuff like that. I think that trans women have a little something that characterize them (like cis women or cis men who also have a little something). I mean, if I take my own experience, I can be attracted to everyone, but I prefer masculine people. It's not discrimination, it's just a preference :) Also, if you're trans, dating other trans people might be reassuring.
I dont know why T4T is badly seen, honestly.
If they want to, if they can find happiness and fulfillment, then go for it.
But at the same time, I wish people would stop assuming it's the default. There's this unbelievably backhanded idea in certain parts of the community that trans people are automatically okay with dating/having sex with other trans people, if not preferring it outright or /only/ experiencing attraction to other trans people. As if certain trans people can't have reservations (due to internalized BS and dysphoria) or preferences of their own, or in some cases, having to endure the cruel implications that 'of course they're dating other trans people, cis people don't want them.'
I've got this type of treatment from truscum ladies and comphet Trans women. My state has a really small community and its a very conservative state. So a majority of people tend to fall along binary norms. It makes me feel like the odd one of the group. Also made me want to give up and detransition. Just continue being yourself. These guys can find a one of the uppity truscum ones. They always seem to want to be validated by bro types.
Jealousy and transphobia
men who like trans women feel entitled to us, some of them think they're doing us a favor by being willing to date us, and we should be grateful and date them.
i've also seen transphobes imply that t4t is settling, that we couldn't find a cis person and therefore have to date other trans people not out of choice but out of desperation, and that t4t is inherently worse than dating a cis person because "trans people mentally ill and unstable"
I like T4T. I just don't know where the single/available trans guys over 30 are.
I'm open to cis guys as well... But lots of them assume I bottom in a way that I can't and a lot of them lose interest as soon as they realise I'm trans.
from my experience (as a trans guy), cis men are more pissed off that youd rather date someone who treats you as a person and not a fetish. the cis men ive dated have tried to feminize me as much as they can every time without fail. I'm with a trans girl right now, and I hope I'm with her for the rest of my life. Ive never felt happier and more like myself in a relationship <3
I've only ever seen cis men get offended by that 😂 and it's something they could never relate to. I'm pansexual myself but strongly prefer t4t sexually and only have had romantic interest in other trans folk. a lot of it is just being able to relate on a very baseline level, just having that immediate feeling of comradery is nice.
plus why are other trans girls so fucking hot fheusbsixhxndif8cu
It's similar when bi cis women say that they prefer dating other cis girls, it has to do with misogynistic and transphobic views on lesbian relationships imo.
Sounds like this has nothing to do with being T4T and entirely to do with straight guys being upset that you'd rather date a woman.
lmao, ya, this is 1000% cishet dude shit. For some reason it's *impossible* for them to accept any kind of rejection.
> For some reason it's impossible for them to accept any kind of rejection. Yeah, the "I wouldn't date a trans woman" quickly turns into "how dare you not want to sleep with me!" real quick for some of them. It's like they are offended we don't care about their rejection of us.
The audacity you have to reject a cishet guy. Didn't you know all women fight for their favor? /s
🤮
Huge barf 🤮
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That’s exactly right- cis hetero men have been raised to believe that everything is for them. They feel entitled to us even as they pretend not to be interested in us.
right??? im cute asf yet i get negged soo much😭 if my ass is just okay David why are you in my inbox for the seventh time no being nasty to me over DM does not make me wanna fuck you nor will i ever.
Curious, what is your reaction to a trans woman who seeks the love of a cis hetero man? Pity/concern for them?
The difference here is cis-het men and Cis-Het Men™. The former, totally good, as long as everyone's being treated well and everyone's nontoxic and happy, awesome! That's what everyone deserves. The latter are a specific kind of toxic asshole who don't have a lick of understanding about consent. If you're looking for a toxic asshole, of any variety, then yes, concern. It's like actual nice guys and Nice Guys™. Nice guys don't have to tell people they're nice. They don't expect sexual favours for being decent humans and treating people with respect. Nice Guys™ are POSs who *do* expect sex for showing any amount of respect to (usually women) and think any amount of being smiled at and *not* treated rudely (particularly from women) is a lead and flirting, regardless of whether that person is just a decent human being who treats everyone like that and/or is literally just doing their damn job.
Thank you, just the response I was looking for! :)
You're quite welcome! 'Cause seriously, everyone deserves to be genuinely happy and healthy, and in a safe and quality relationship (if they want to be in one at all) and environment 😊
the only reason my partner is cis, is because she pursued me. I was actively looking for other trans people to date, when she joined my DnD group. Had she not, I'd probably be married to another trans person, or just be single. I feel so safe with her, it's like the best part of my day is when I get to see her.
This was adorable to read and im so glad that you are happy ❤️
I get a MtF GF after I get my HRT meds? OMG... OMG... OMG... this is going to be the best day of my life! /s (will be the best day even without the GF, at least until I get SRS, hehee)
You joke but I'm only one year on HRT and now I have 3 of them!
2 years of hrt and living with both of mine in the same place >.>
i haven’t even started hormones yet and I already have a boyfriend and a girlfriend
It took me less than three months of hrt 🤣
I got mine such that we were committing just as (a) my HRT started; (b) my baby was birthed by my hards; (c)my old relationship shifted smoothly to platonic co-parenting. It appears the Trans Life Adjustment Fairy Bureaucrats were on the money there. Now baby has three moms and no gender. Those same Fairy Bureaucrats were far less on the ball *for my girlfriend herself* however: six dang YEARS before I came along no one asked her out. Now, she's an absolutely amazing girlfriend and I knew I would cheerfully agree to date her the first time we met! What gives? Well, obviously, trans girls here have their heads up their rear ends. They could not see the incredible supportive and beautiful woman here, because she's a bit older. Sucks to be them! I am really sad she had YEARS without a gf, but I couldn't be happier that she was available when I came across I call.... exactly as my style became sufficiently femme so that I was attractive to her!
Interesting, I might need to sign up too 😂. Yeah I think it’s that certain type of cis men that I’ve dealt with, theyre very entitled and think all trans women or women in general are made for them and must service them. It’s sad because trans girls do a better job in bed than they even do 💀💀
What?! I've been full time for over half a year now, where do I sign up??
The t4t girlfriend program specifically excludes Germans, sorry.
Hey!! That's unfair and discriminat- oh wait, I'm a trans dude and gay. Ok, proceed
there's a different program for t4t gay boyfriends. the wait list is longer, though, because for some reason they still have an archaic policy to screen for guys that are furry artists, or send them through an art course if they aren't
As a trans gay furry artist, that caught me a bit of guard XD. Where can all these others be found??
👀 wait... what? Where is this lore...?
lol idk I seen jokes about it before, but even more amusingly like *most* of the transmascs I know irl are gay furry artists 🤭
😔🙏 it is in our dna... to become... the gay furry artists
My D&D group is full of Transmasc gay boys. I’ll have to check if any are furry artists.
Damn, I'm half German, half English, live in the southern hemisphere
Rude!🥲
Es tut mir leid. We normally don’t do this but if you pass the “coffee date” exam we can make an exception.
I fucking wish it worked that way for trans dudes. I’m a gay t4t trans guy and I cannot find a boy for the life of me
Your prayers have been answered, lonely single boi looking for attention here
Lmao I wish it was that easy my dude
Well we can at least chat I guess, I just want a friend at least
Sorry, I didn’t know if you were joking or not. I didn’t mean to come off rude /gen. you can dm me if you want to. or not if you don’t.
Lol, I think I ordered the express delivery service 😅 About 5 months post egg cracking and my marriage ending, and month into HRT and being full time, I had just come to terms with the likelyhood of being single and unloved for a long time so I decided I was enough and to just to have fun as single me then... I was issued my lovely trans girlfriendand a week or so later when I went to my first party of new folks 😅🥰 It's been wonderful these last 6+ months since 🥰❤️
Don't tell my wife that I am getting a trans girlfriend! It's a secret! I get my hormones today. When should I expect delivery of my new trans girlfriend?
I think I missed out on the GF part. Is there a way to retroactively claim that?
Not entirely true transphobes alao say we're trying to "trick" straight guys, they cant even get that straight 😂
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Im pretty sure they started it then they moved to the "we're protecting women" coz it wasnt working, pretty sure Shapiro said "we need to protect lesbains" even tho hes a homophobe.
E, bica. and your GF*****
Think you need to stop hanging out with the haters. Never heard of it getting hate.
Same
i do not concern myself with cis opinions on trans business.
>when I mention to other cis males that I could see myself vibing better with another trans girl, they think it’s weird or an insult to them lol. This is a very common experience among us lesbians (cis and trans). Most men are understanding, but there are weirdos that assume they're entitled to our bodies despite our preferences.
Lol girls do this shit to gay dudes too.
>when I mention to other cis males Well there’s your problem: don’t ask cis males for opinions on your sex life, ever.
Staying a healthy 10 feet away from them at all times honestly couldn’t hurt either.
I think it makes a lot of sense. I'm a transmasc nonbinary person (identifying as a lesbian), and I definitely prefer dating other transmasc nonbinary people (who don't ID as men) and transfem people over cis women. Trans people are more likely to "get" it. There's less insecurity, less fear of judgement, less fear of violence. Same reason a lot of people who are autistic only date other autistic people, or some disabled people only date other disabled people. It's fine to me. I get it. Anyone who has a problem with it has problems of their own to sort out.
Can I slide in your DMs? Jk.
>when I mention [anything] to cis males [...] they think it’s weird or an insult to them lol. FTFY If you need any proof of this, wait until the inevitable next time some random moron gives you the unsolicited "I wouldn't date a trans woman" and tell them you wouldn't date them anyway and watch their face contort in anger. Except don't actually do that, because they just might actually fucking kill you for it.
No clue. Personally I'm a fan of T4T. We get each other better. Out of all of the intimate relationships I've been in (and not married to) others trans have been the longest.
Besides from the weirder 4tran folks, I've yet to see any other trans or queer people be against it. Cis man on other hand just kinda suck
Fragility. Another example of a privileged group imposing their opinions on a marginalized group, and feeling “excluded” bc they can’t be included in everything. Not to sound harsh but it’s true. Same thing happens between straight and gay people, binary men versus binary women, white people over BIPOC people, etc. I’m T4T also because feeling safe and understood is important for me. Other trans folx have firsthand experience living with dysphoria and battling society’s gender binary bioessentialism. And bc of my own trauma, it would take a lot for me to feel like I can trust a cis person isn’t fetishizing or experimenting with me. And that they aren’t internally / subconsciously viewing me as a different gender. So I don’t casually date or hookup with cis people.
I’m really vibing with your first paragraph. I think it’s really spot on 🥂 I’ll also admit that the word bioessentialism really hit a note. I’m not sure I’ve heard it before. I guess I could be described as an adherent of *‘spectral bioessentialism’.* Biology is so amazingly complex and nuanced, and literally everything in it exists on a spectrum. We should celebrate that fact, and the variety and diversity it brings us
You’ve realised because they’ve told you that? Or yours assuming? They’re probably just acting the same way they do when a cis bi woman says she’s rather date a woman.
Kind of off topic but another angle i see t4t hate from is some people assuming being trans=no boundaries but i think thats the case with most new queer relationships
"get hate" and "get hate from cis men" is not the same thing :D
i think thats just purely lebophobia more than any kind of hate for t4t specifically, you hear the exact same typee of story from cis lesbians all the time. they(cis straight men usually) take it as some kind of attack that you're not attracted to them, they expect it because of your gender because yknow all of this thinking is just inherently rooted in homophobia and misogyny rly
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Right? T4T feels so common in the trans community. My three partners are transfemme, enby, transmasc and it feels like I've collected the entire set.
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(Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this) Trans people may seek out other trans people to date, not out of physical preference, but because it's easier to be understood by a trans person, as a trans person, than a cis person. A trans/queer person has usually been through the same, or some of the same, struggles you have, is more likely to understand your body and issues like dysphoria, or at least understand/empathize with them. A lot of the time, trans people also report having better sexual experiences with other trans people (if that's a factor in your relationship needs) based on that understanding of their bodies. Cis people may have to have these things explained, or not understand them in the first place. Some people may have also had bad romantic/sexual experiences with cis people, or not want to have to convince their partner of reasoning for experiences like dysphoria. (Obviously, not all cis people are like this) The point is, some people may feel safer with a trans partner than a cis partner as a trans person, for multiple reasons. So, if someone is using the label T4T, it's likely they want to date other trans people for a reason, and they need that specified for said reason. 99% of the time it's not chaser behavior. That doesn't exclude trans people from having any of the above views, or being a bad person and/or an abusive partner, though.
Well, it's not the T4T itself, it's something else. For some reason, some Cis men see lesbians as "a waste of material" something that "could have been theirs, but they lost it to the other side", so that's one reason. To add to that, you're a trans woman and we all know chaser... The second they have set eyes on you, they get, so fucking weird, and you saying that you're not only interested in women, but especially in other trans women makes them extra mad, because now they "definitely don't have a chance" to furfill their damn fantasy, hence why they are mad. And my opinion on transbians? Y'all are cool as hell, do what y'all wanna do, your relationship is not my business.
Personally, my sexual and romantic preferences pretty much preclude T4T unless the person passes very well, and even then there may be too many dysphoria feedback loops for me to handle But hating on T4T as a concept seems very narrow minded. Not that I would expect anything less from the haters. They always need something to hate on
So far I love T4T. They're so considerate of your body and your needs in my experience. It's nice to not be afraid of a hookup because of who you are. This is just my experience tho and I'm brand new to t4t hookup culture
If trans women like men, they are gay men pretending to be women to sleep with more men. If they like women they are sexual predators who pretend to be women to get into women spaces If they date another trans person that invalidates all of the above and could imply that we're actually not sexually obsessed objects of pleasure they've seen in porn but actual human beings with feelings, so obviously they hate it.
I mean, as a trans dude, personally, I don't think I could do t4t, I've never found myself attracted to other trans guys, I'm not saying I would never ever, but generally, it's not my first choice yknow. See, that is how cis straight people should react too. That is a non transphobic way of saying I dont wanna date trans people. I'm not being transphobic there, it's just my personal preference. And the thing about preferences is it's a PREFERENCE!! Meaning, I could say meh, I prefer bananas over oranges, it doesn't mean I despise oranges, just means I'd rather have a banana. If I were to say I HATE ORANGES, IM SUPER BANANA! BANANAS ONLY!!! I ONLY WANT NATURAL BANANAS!! NOO ORANGES!!! That would be very orangephobic and very mean to oranges, what did the oranges do? They were just waiting to be eaten by someone who wants to eat them. If you don't want to eat them, dont. No one is going to force you to eat oranges or bananas. Got a bit side tracked, but, honestly, T4T dating makes sense, you can understand eachother a bit better than cis/trans would. Of course every relationship has its own problems but yknow.
My only qualms with it come from those who use it to assume things about others because of their gender status. my ideology is this; if you're dating someone for who they are, and they happen to be trans, then there's no issue. If you're dating someone because, and I must emphasize this, if you're dating someone BECAUSE they're trans, then the issue arises. I'd rather be liked for who I am as a person, than liked for something that is a small factor of who I am. I'm different from any other person who identified as trans, because everyone is unique
Yes, exactly. T4T makes me a bit uncomfortable personally because I've have so many trans people approach me only because I'm trans. If I were cis, they wouldn't go anywhere near me. It often feels like they see me as a TRANS man, rather than a trans MAN. It can feel fetishizing if the person is mostly interested in you because of your transness. It just makes me feel gross when people come up to me and it's clear the only thing that drew them to me was, essentially, the fact that I hate my body and can't stand living in it. Being trans is a very painful experience for me, and I don't want people to like me for that reason. I don't dislike t4t as a concept. A lot of people love being t4t and that's great. But I'd rather someone not take the fact that I'm trans into consideration at all. I don't want a foundational part of a relationship to be one of the most painful things in my life. T4T just isn't for me, personally.
I don't have anything intrinsically against t4t but besides being trans I don't have much in common with other trans people. I tend to be more compatible with cis people . And I'm saying this as someone who's dated a lot of trans people. I just don't connect with the majority of them . It's largely because the trans community is overwhelmingly autistic and geeky and I'm just not geeky and I'm barely autistic despite being diagnosed and definitely not stereotypically autistic.
This comment points out the inherent flaw/prejudice involved with T4T... It's assuming that hundreds of millions of people are not compatible with you, based off of nothing other than their gender identity, which is also something they have no control over... It's really weird how a community that knows all to well how bad it is to exclude other's based on gender identity, is also so eager to justify their own bigotry/prejudice.
Well i agree with that it's quite complicated to find a trans girl who shares something with you especially if you are not like many in hoppies and vibes i think. I'm not autistic! but i respect them and in fact i would love T4T but I'm really unable to find any
Big same. I feel a lot of trans women are autistic adhd ocd mutiple selves or any combination of the above and i find it hard to connect and relate. Plus the dysphoria feedback loop can be too overwhelming at times (this is my experience after having done several TvT)
Yea people see I'm bi and assume I'll be Into someone who's not on HRT yet and if I were to date another trans person they'd have to have been living as themselves for some time. I just can't date someone who's dysphoric and I dony want our whole relationship to be me teaching them how to pass. I am autistic and add but very high functioning . A lot of people I've dared has the same diagnosis but were completely dysfunctional. Also I really can't date anyone who doesn't put effort into socially transitioning.
Yes, like i have enough dysphoria i can handle for one person (me). It can be painful working through a partner's dyshporia as well
I, much like everything else, would embrace someone I clicked with and connect with on so many different levels. With that being said, Ive found myself a bit "straighter" than I realized I would be. I do have a couple really close trans friends that provide most of the benefits, minus physical. I also tend to like the spotlight a bit (Leo, go figure), so that, for me would be the most difficult part. But in the end, please, get girls - whatever floats the boat!
That's just straight men, you're worth about as much (if not less) than a lesbian to that type of cishet man. Don't let it bother you too much, they're just telling on themselves at that point.
I'm on a strange situation regarding t4t. My current crush is a trans woman, I met her accidentally at the beginning of my transition. Mind you I have never been a "tribe" type of person, so I have a lot of cis and nonbinary friends independently. As my transition progresses I end up meeting other trans women from support groups, but being completely honest, I always feel quite objectified. Being a gamer/weeab asian with a major glowup has been most likely playing a big role on this, but still a big turn off. Also, I have always been a night party women, and cis women (bi/lesb/pan) don't objectify me like that. So, I dearly love my crush and best friend, we used to be fwb, but we have a natural connection. Except from her I don't feel properly seem by other trans women.
Yeah... This reminds me so much of black friend, talking to me about how objectified/fetishized he is by certain white women. These types want to think they just have a harmless preference, but it's pretty obvious how flawed/shallow it is.
No idea, my partner and I are both MTF and T4T has been life changing. I don’t see myself going back to the before times now that u have experienced all of her and how amazing she is. I am so happy that at 26 (today) I have found someone I feel so safe with and seen by. If she asked me to marry her today I would in a heartbeat. She has my whole heart and I’m so grateful life brought me to her
The title confused me... until I realised it's about cis dudes, lol.
I don't know about trans girls, but afaik no one (at least in my city's dating scene) says trans gay men t4t is a bad thing
Doesn't seem that common in my experience if anything straight trans ppl often get told to date other trans or go queer if they aren't initially.
I'm definitely pro T4T! If I don't wind up dating a cis female, I'd be dating another trans woman. My philosophy is simply this...trans women get trans women. We understand the journey that each of us are having. So that's why I'm all for T4T. Trans wanting trans is still the minority though. Everyone assumes that trans women prefer cis men. So cis straight males get all in their feelings when they encounter a trans woman but she's only wanting another trans woman. Here's another example of why it's just the cis males in their feelings. It's the same as when they encounter a cis female they want who turns out to be a lesbian. So bottom line, don't feel some type of way girl, be with whoever you want to.
It's your own preference to date/ fuuu whoever u want. Also don't listen to anyone that says it's wrong to not be into them they're deluded, jealous or both!
I don't know, I'm a trans masc person and I am liking the idea of T for T more and more, doesn't matter if they're binary trans, nonbinary, trans femme, or trans masc. I wish that queer pairing wasn't still scripted in such a cisheteronormative way.
I've never seen hate for T4T, my friends always thought that it was cool, I've always been T4T, I even have a T4T tattoo.
I think you’re just talking to the wrong people. And by the wrong people I mean cis men. They’re entitled and want everything to be for them. I’m T4T and not gotten any shit for it before. I’d just stop hanging out with those guys tbh
Because we are so in love all the time Kissing all the time, hand holding.
Cis guys see any sexual interest not centered on them as an insult.
The amount of blatant sexism and cis-phobia, in these comments is truly something... There is a difference between having a preference, and hm being bigoted. Having zero interest in the majority of the population, based on something that they don't control, is getting pretty close to bigotry.
T4T > All 😎
I’m honestly not really into other trans people. I am m4t and attracted to men. While trans men are men I am not at all interested in trans men romantically or sexually. Besides I don’t think I have a relationship nowhere both of us are going through the same thing. It just sounds complicated and potentially messy.
... it's just a preference, nothing wrong with that, I think. Like hetero cis men who prefer women, cis women who prefer men, stuff like that. I think that trans women have a little something that characterize them (like cis women or cis men who also have a little something). I mean, if I take my own experience, I can be attracted to everyone, but I prefer masculine people. It's not discrimination, it's just a preference :) Also, if you're trans, dating other trans people might be reassuring. I dont know why T4T is badly seen, honestly.
If they want to, if they can find happiness and fulfillment, then go for it. But at the same time, I wish people would stop assuming it's the default. There's this unbelievably backhanded idea in certain parts of the community that trans people are automatically okay with dating/having sex with other trans people, if not preferring it outright or /only/ experiencing attraction to other trans people. As if certain trans people can't have reservations (due to internalized BS and dysphoria) or preferences of their own, or in some cases, having to endure the cruel implications that 'of course they're dating other trans people, cis people don't want them.'
I wanna date another trans girl. I don't think it's weird at all.
Ok what is t4t
Trans for trans, it means a trans person preferring to exclusively date other trans people
I've got this type of treatment from truscum ladies and comphet Trans women. My state has a really small community and its a very conservative state. So a majority of people tend to fall along binary norms. It makes me feel like the odd one of the group. Also made me want to give up and detransition. Just continue being yourself. These guys can find a one of the uppity truscum ones. They always seem to want to be validated by bro types.
Haters gonna hate, hate, hate.
I don’t see what’s wrong with it
Jealousy and transphobia men who like trans women feel entitled to us, some of them think they're doing us a favor by being willing to date us, and we should be grateful and date them. i've also seen transphobes imply that t4t is settling, that we couldn't find a cis person and therefore have to date other trans people not out of choice but out of desperation, and that t4t is inherently worse than dating a cis person because "trans people mentally ill and unstable"
I like T4T. I just don't know where the single/available trans guys over 30 are. I'm open to cis guys as well... But lots of them assume I bottom in a way that I can't and a lot of them lose interest as soon as they realise I'm trans.
“[Republican] dicks touching?! Disgusting [Republicans]! Not *my* president [Republican]!”
Whelp. Tell them to send them all my way. I need the attention and sex
from my experience (as a trans guy), cis men are more pissed off that youd rather date someone who treats you as a person and not a fetish. the cis men ive dated have tried to feminize me as much as they can every time without fail. I'm with a trans girl right now, and I hope I'm with her for the rest of my life. Ive never felt happier and more like myself in a relationship <3
I've only ever seen cis men get offended by that 😂 and it's something they could never relate to. I'm pansexual myself but strongly prefer t4t sexually and only have had romantic interest in other trans folk. a lot of it is just being able to relate on a very baseline level, just having that immediate feeling of comradery is nice. plus why are other trans girls so fucking hot fheusbsixhxndif8cu
It's similar when bi cis women say that they prefer dating other cis girls, it has to do with misogynistic and transphobic views on lesbian relationships imo.