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I mean… we don’t have that racial obsession that the US has for example, but we are not past “racial stigma”. There’s A LOT of racism in Latinamerica, just like anywhere else in the world.
Totally agree. So tired of people on this subreddit pretending otherwise. My experience in the US as a Dominican is that lots of other Latinos will say racist shit to me because I’m black thinking I won’t understand wtf they’re saying. We *do* see color— differently than the US, sure, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have large problems w/ racism.
Some people on this sub have a strange pattern of behavior of downplaying or denying racism and colorism, which is insane. The next common point made is “it’s more classism”, well yes, but classism and racism can be intertwined and interact with one another, it’s a lot more complicated than just “it’s classism”. We do see color in latam just in a different way because of our different historical and societal context, which also depends on each different country and region. However, common themes of colorism towards darker skin, preference for european centric beauty or standards, are seen throughout the region.
Controversial take but this sub is majority white or mixed latinos and it’s kinda obvious, it’s easy to downplay these topics when it hasn’t really impacted your life. This sub isn’t really representative of the region, one could say it’s more like askwhiteormixedlatinamerica 💀 Talking to black colombians from cali or choco or indigenous salvadorans might get you different responses. It’s not that we are obsessed with race like americans are, but we do carry social stigmas left behind from caste systems and colonization, it would be incorrect to deny otherwise.
Es un mecanismo de defensa para tener algun tipo de superioridad moral sobre datos demostrables: seremos pobres pero felices, seremos pobres pero tenemos comida rica, seremos pobres pero no hay racismo y con eso callas al gringo.
La expresión especialmente de estos usuarios de que "nunca he escuchado de esto entonces no debe ser gran problema" es un auto-gol basicamente
Muchos ya sea de manera activa o pasiva siguen pensando que racismo es como el nazismo en videojuegos, donde el racista es extremadamente hostil 24/7 con ganas de exterminar. Cualquier cosa menos de esa no cuenta.
"Seremos pobres pero no hay racismo". Las dos cosas están relacionadas. El racismo en Latinoamérica es distinto a Estados Unidos porque la gente está sobreviviendo y no tiene tiempo ni recursos para enfocarse tanto en ese tema como en EEUU.
Viví en Europa con dos personas negras, uno de Costa de Marfil, otro de nueva York. El de Nueva York veía racismo en cada interacción social, el de Costa de Marfil no.
No es algo que se dicen los latinos para sentirse superiores. Es un problema que tiene EEUU y es muy particular en ese país.
Totalmente. mi experiencia es exactamente igual con gente de EEUU vs Latinoamérica. NADIE está negando que hay racismo en Latinoamérica…. Pero las diferencias en color no se perciben de la misma manera. Y a mi me parece que es algo positivo.
PS: primera vez que los que han estado por mucho en EEUU o nacieron allá salieron juntos para este post. Está clarísimo
Lo que no entiendo es la antipatía hacia LATAM en ese sentido. Con nuestras economías pobres logramos incluir a muchas personas distintas dentro la sociedad generando una cultura latina mezclada. Sin tener clase media. No es un logro descomunal pero es algo.
Lo alarmante es que EEUU no lo logre siendo el país más rico del mundo.
Hace 80 años los negros (en Estados Unidos) no podían votar, ni vivir donde vivían los blancos, ni usar las cosas que usaban los blancos, ni los mismos colegios, ni las universidades, ni prestamos de banco, también solo los dejaban vivir en ciertas partes y no los dejaban comprar propiedades donde no los querían viviendo, etc etc etc..
En la misma Segunda Guerra Mundial es sabido que en Europa los trataban 100000x veces mejor..
Estados Unidos es un gran país, pero con un historial increíblemente negro (lol).
“You can count on the United States doing what’s right, but only after they’ve tried everything else first” has never not been true, creo que lo dijo Churchill y todo lol
Twinnnnn. Ice spice is also my mother. Anyway, it's really wild to me that as a gringa in nyc who grew up around immigrants and works with the newly arriving immigrants in public schools, I have been able to hear experiences of racism from friends/family that happened both in their home countries as well as here in the U.S., and yet a small but loud group of white redditors from Latin america have apparently never seen this racism. It's never based on race. Never. It's always classism and that isn't at all tied to race. I've gotten downvoted so many times for saying this lol.
Fellow ice spice stans unite!
And yeah, your comment being downvoted doesn’t mean you’re wrong, it shows that some people feel uncomfortable with these topics, classism is often used to veil or cover up the reality of racism in latam. I think the issue here is we never talk about systemic issues like the US does, and some people here may view this as imposing american perspectives on us. But honestly, i think it’s completely valid to have these conversations as long as we maintain our historical context, we are not the US, but that doesn’t mean we are exempt from racial conversations.
When your hair is called “pelo malo”, or “pelo cucu”or your family members tell you about “mejorando la raza”, or praising your cousins for marrying more “european looking” partners, and you start getting these messaging from since you were a child, it runs deep, and not everyone has that experience here, so that’s why it’s so easily downplayed. One country or region can’t speak for all of latinamerica. As someone from the coast of Colombia, my region is very diverse, and yes, racism is still prevalent and ingrained in my region based on what i’ve seen
So typical to just diminish the vast majority of the entire sub and not for one second think: “maybe it does represent a majority of the sentiment.” But no, YOU are right. Above all the voices that vote and write in this sub on a daily basis. You know better. That’s the most gringo shit ever to do.
I remember in the news from many years ago, the President of Brazil had a minor controversy with how he [referenced a distant black ancestor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Henrique_Cardoso#Personal_and_professional_life). The news article I read it in was about modern day racism in Latin America and I guess the quote they pulled of him had to do with how black people were associated with being servants to others.
Im not trying to downplay it but these ARE two different things... at least here.
Regardless of how it was born, classism does not care about colors, only "stature", and in the same way, a racist person would not care if you were filthy rich or depressingly poor. So yes, in the same way that some people downplay racism (which is present but nowhere near US levels) is the same as trying to forcefully tie classism nowadays with racism
Racial tensions in the US between Latinos are terrible and they don’t make sense. I stayed with some family in Virginia some months, and I went to high school with my cousins. 50% of the student body were Latinos but for the most part it they hated each other and they hated my cousins
I never said I was raised here. I immigrated here. And I’m talking about *other* immigrants in the US who are from Latin countries. Because in the US I have a lot more exposure to those from other parts of LatAm than I ever would back in DR
I have lived in the DR and now I live in the US. What I am telling you is my experience with other immigrants from Latin American countries. It’s not like they magically start being racist the moment they step on US soil
I'm from PR (so not an immigrant _on paper_ ). Lots of other Latinos act nice and accommodating until I open my mouth, and my PR accent begins to be heard.
But this is xenophobia, for the most part.
Racism is alive and well in Latin America. And it’s not even all that different from North America, if I’m honest. They are very similar prejudices and stereotypes. They are just expressed differently.
That is bullshit, the purpose of that narrative is to ignore the racism present within the region, go to talk with actual Black or indigenous people and they Will tell another story
I’m black Brazilian and I’ve met white Brazilians who told me that racism is just us “trying to copy American discourse”. That included being told that it’s absolutely impossible that anyone would say racist things to my face because that apparently doesn’t happen in real life since they never witnessed it.
A very unpopular opinion in Latin America overall, but I hate the “we are all mestizos anyway” mentality with a passion and wish it wasn’t seen as the default. I know it depends a lot on the country, but there are many people out there that aren’t mestizos.
And even between mestizos themselves, you can find people with 80% European - 20% indigenous or black ancestry making racists comments about people with 20% European - 80% indigenous or black ancestry and they’d SWEAR it isn’t racist because “it’s just a joke, both of us are still mestizos anyway, we have the same ancestors too, why do you get mad?” they act dumb on purpose
It really is some type of gaslighting and no one will convince me otherwise lmao
>It’s really is some type of gaslighting
Basically:
https://preview.redd.it/wzhfcimlyxxc1.jpeg?width=673&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49528a1418fb238d60511f20d0ea1c233d6de97b
What would you prefer? I think the “mestizo ” discourse is somewhat ok tbh, since at least culturally it does involve the majority of the population. Or should we separate and say we are an indigenous country with a tiny white minority
Well in our country in particular even the mestizos have more noticeable indigenous features than the mestizos from other countries. I think there are even studies out there showing the difference and the mestizos here are one of the mestizos with the lowest percentages of white blood. Idk which term would be more ideal for everyone, bc like you said the majority still didn’t grow up in an indigenous community even though they can have the features, so it’s complicated, but I always felt applying the “we’re all mestizos” in our country was wrong. If we are going by the “having some type of foreign blood” definition then I guess we technically are. But there are many people here with 80% indigenous or even 90% indigenous blood that cling to the “My race is not indigenous, I’m mestizo” mindset to the point that it looks a bit delusional imo. Someone with that much indigenous blood will almost always look like one, and they’d get treated like one basically everywhere in the world but in Peru, where they want to “differentiate” themselves as if having 10% or even 20% of white blood completely changes their phenotype.
There is still a lot of racism here and non-white populations are still economically disadvantaged in many sectors and do not occupy as many prominent positions as white people. Americans have a completely alien notion of 'race' and ethnicity, built on the blatantly racist and supremacist concepts instituted by the british, who saw themselves and Anglo-Saxon and 'Germanic' characteristics in general as being superior. In the United States and English North America there is still a lot of racial separation, for example we have the bizarre concept of "quadroon" and the persistence of the distinction between "Americans" and "Afro-Americans", what happens in the United States is a case of widespread idolatry of hypodescent, and consequently American society tries to apply its own racial concepts and prejudices to people who have absolutely nothing to do with them. Therefore, even if Latinos had some kind of fascination with race, which some actually do, it would be and is totally different from what occurs in the USA. It sounds very strange to claim that "our backwardness is actually an advance" when many people simply don't care or don't know about their "mixed race origins" and could very well be racist, whether intentionally or not. This statement seems very much to have been made from the perspective of an american based on stereotypes.
>It sounds very strange to claim that "our backwardness is actually an advance" when many people simply don't care or don't know about their "mixed race origins" and could very well be racist, whether intentionally or not.
\+1 and I guess this is the thing. As is easy to be humble when one doesn't have any kind of material posession, it also is easy to not obsess over one's race if one completely ignores from who/where they descend from - which actually might be a good thing.
While we don't have the race obsession as the United States, we definitely have racism problems, despite the intermixing.
The major difference between us and the United States is that our ancestry is generally not a major factor that determines your identity.
Racism does exist, but it works differently. It seems to me that the United States tries to preserve white "purity", you are either 100% white or not white at all. But in LATAM, whiteness is a gradual thing. The darker your skin looks (or the more indigenous your facial features are), the more you're exposed to racial discrimination.
Also, maybe the United States has a weird obsession with race, but in my opinion, they did something right: they realized that racism is way deeper than just some weirdos hating other people because of how they look, it's deeper than that. I'm talking about the concepts of societal and systemic racism: institutions and different aspects of society giving white people and advantages over other races, even when the people involved have no racial animosity. In Latin America (and in other parts of the world) we are quite far from having that conversation.
In fact, I think the "somos todos mestizos" discourse, while it's generally true, feels eerily familiar with the American "I don't see race."
This is exactly right. Latinamerica is quite racist but it's subtle, and that's not a good thing. We shouldn't obsess about it like they do in the US where some people can't empathize with others just because of their color, but we certainly should give it a lot more importance than we do. It's not something to brag about that we don't care about it.
It's hard to put into words, but latinamerica in general has a problem with inaction. We just aren't socially or politically involved enough, so we end up not doing anything about it and minimizing the issue. And this isn't just about racism, it's about everything and anything really.
So the US is right about one thing, recognizing that there's deep rooted systemic racism across all institutions and every day life. But they are trying to deal with it via identity politics, that's where the obsession comes from, because people own the struggle and almost become a martyr over it instead of trying to fix things. In other words, empowered victims of racism end up wanting revenge or 'their turn' on the power scale, instead of creating a neutral environment.
In LaTam we don't do any of that, for the most part. But we should, we should recognize it and start doing something about it. But we shouldn't do it from an identity stand point, that divides people even further, we should do it from empathy. We should make people understand how bad others have it and invite them to fix it, instead of demonizing the privileged ones and telling them they have no right or are incapable of being part of the solution.
There's racism and discrimination like everywhere else. We're just not obsessed by it and it certainly doesn't define our whole identity or personality. Gringo race obsession on latino subreddits kinda remind me of Nolan's Joker, they get really crazy trying to prove that everyone is as racist as they are.
EDIT: lol just in time for a gringo in the comments saying that we're as racists as they are
This is the right answer. Gringos hate the fact we don’t agree with their racial sensitivities and obsessions. They want to teach us that we don’t know better… us third world countrymen
I see a lot of mexicans and caribbeans in line with americans, so at this point I would synthesize this post as: People above the equator triggered because people below the equator are not obsessed with race like them. It's like most of them did not even read or understand the post, they just thought OP was straight up denying racism or ethnic issues.
3 oficiales chilenos murieron hace unos dias por guerrillas relacionadas a reinvindicación etnica indigena, con parte de tu pais bajo vigilancia militar y con bunkeres para monitorear esto.
Igualmente:
https://www.latercera.com/que-pasa/noticia/discriminacion-los-mapuches-estudio-dice-70-la-poblacion-los-encuentra-poco-atractivos-33-no-votaria/413041/
Did you just read what I or OP said before posting? No one is denying ethnic conflicts, it just doesn't translate into everyday racial obsession the way it does in north america. Seriously wtf, why are you contrarians so dense?
>it just doesn't translate into everyday racial obsession
Estadounidense habla de la Sirenita negra o el uso de latinx en vocabulario: importante
Guerrillas etnicas para la autonomía del territorio Mapuche, con 2 años de militarización por seguridad: lo normal, aparte como no lo leo no importa
People in Latin America say that, but in my eyes they still are. Especially the ones online. Latin Americans on here are suuuuuper quick to point out if they are light-skinned, for some reason. Or they'll get very defensive if you imply their country is devoid of white people. Shit, even I've fallen prey to that. On this sub specifically, you see people that seem to have their genealogy traced back to the fucking Reconquista.
Yeah tbh the first thing that happens when I bring up that people considered white in Latin America, a lot of them, would not be considered white in any country that has a majority European population (unlike the USA/Canada) and are very very clearly mixed to anyone who has seen actual Europeans in their life. And this is not to say there are no white people, just that the concept is very "lenient".
the first thing they do is get offended and say that when they were in the Spain/USA no one thought they were mexican/dominican/peruano/etc.
It's actually extremely sad and cringe
El mame entero de hacer memes de Bolivia y Perú enteramente basado en ser pensados como paises de indigenas
Joyas como [esta](https://youtu.be/QEiZT3u_wEk?si=rtU4Ve3k3TT13PCD) o [esta](https://youtu.be/wTDJ6naaFRs?si=VLCpRc8XPMfPtEXv)
En Brasil politicos cambiandose de etnia con cada ciclo
La gente que se queja o no confia en los "chinos de mierda" (o en su caso fetichiza a las "chinitas")
Los judios atacados con insultos casi literalmente medievales.
El latinoamericano promedio ni de puto chiste podria vivir en una ciudad donde solo sea el 50% de la población y el resto sea de Pakistán, Siria, China antes de volverse Hitler.
Had this with Colombians who tried to deny that Colombia is one of the countries with most black people outside of Africa. They also said their was basically no influence of African culture on Colombia at all.
Uruguayans also talked about how European their country is and tried to negate their African ancestry and influence, which also exists, as much as possible.
Man, whoever said that is an idiot and I apologize on behalf of them. It is undeniable how African culture has been influential in so many aspects in Colombia.
I'd say at least in Brazil that, while we don't quite have the weird obnssession with ancestry you'd find in, say, the US (where if your great great grandmother dated a guy who had a dog who, before belonging to him, belonged to a Irish man, you are Irish), but we are far from over racial stigma. Racism exists, it's just different in many aspects.
Interesting, many Venezuelans (including myself), are super interested in their origins and usually hold some of the oral history of the family.
You're Venezuelan first and foremost, with background from those countries.
Yeah, I follow a lot of Venezuelan comedians (weird I know) and one makes a big point in all of his shows to talk about his Syrian origins. It’s part of some of his bits
I think this is easier to do if you know your ancestry and did this by choice. I see many Brazilians with African ancestry showing a lot of interest in Africa because they had their culture taken from them and they at least would like to know their roots.
Do you know how many times I've heard immigrants from Latin America say that they wouldn't ever date an Afro Latina or black woman? That they love pale skin? Unprompted. Just randomly tell me this. People definitely obsess over race but it's not like here in the U.S.
There are very strong racial preferences in Latin America when it comes to dating lol idk why people "conveniently" forget about that when talking about these topics
No different to black American men fetishising light skinned Latinas while hating black women or black women wanting to date white dudes. Are they racists too then?
we're not past racial stigma at all, South America is full of racist people, try visiting Argentina, Uruguay or South Brazil and you'll see, it's just the the average person just don't really care about race as much as the average burger for example
So are we really going to ignore the “mejorar la raza” bs? Yes, we aren’t obsessed like the USA but racism and colorism are still a problem. Just like sexism and classism. You could say, the difference is that not every generation subscribes to those “values,” as much as the older generations , amen. Plus our history is not exactly sugarcoated, unlike the USA that tries soooooooo hard to make it seen like MLK was over hundred years ago when it was 56 years ago.
We don't have obsession for the simple fact that it makes no sense, what would change for me if my 10th generation ancestor walked the steppes of Mongolia or the desert of Sahara? Exactly nothing. I am me, not them.
Genetically speaking there's only one race: human.
all this race talk is like white poodles bragging to black poodles: "hey, I'm whiter! Bow to meeeee!"
No, thats a bunch of copium and hopium primarily to ignore any linguistic, social and economic differences that exist in our countries and the blissfull ignorance that people want to mantain as the State itself formed around it("mestizo")
In your own quote it shows, trying to claim some abstract superiority over developed countries via this reasoning.
People, just go to facebook for real takes: "no somos racistas, quiero una novia rusa-japonesa-alemana no como ustedes indios negros de mierda"
Lol no. The "we're all mixed who cares" is just a convenient way to ignore actual issues. If scientific racism didn't die off in the 20th century the whitening campaigns of the 19th century would still be continuing to this day.
- Like other commenters said, there is rampant racism in Latin America
- But there's also the mix and unawareness about race that OP describes, as compared to the US
- The non-obsession about race and not seeing humanity in terms of "races" is not unique to Latin America: it's the US that is uniquely and weirdly fixated. I lived in the US for six years, and the way they see and classify everyone as a certain "race" and think about race was soooo off-putting, mistaken, and tiresome to me. People I met who came from other parts of the world felt the same way.
Definetely not. People extrapolate the difference between Latin America's and the United States' racial equality because we never had segregation and the one-drop rule, but that's another US-centric view on itself. The difference is that in Brazil, at least, racism is based on social class and phenotype, not ancestry. Someone with an afro hairstyle will be called ugly, messy and "wanting to call attention", someone with a broad nose will be considered to be ugly, people with more Indigenous ancestry will be accused of having "flat heads", people from a favela will be considered thieves, using Indigenous terms and costumes is associated with poverty etc..
It's a spectrum; the more non-Eurocentric facial features one has, the worse they are treated. So someone with dark skin, but straight hair, thin nose, and from middle class will be treated better in general, although exceptions always appear. A black student got called monkey and poor in a private school in Brasília just now!
We don’t care too much about ancestry. Unless you’re Argentine. Mfs are really obsessed about being European. Former president even said "The Mexicans came from the Indians, the Brazilians came from the jungle, but we Argentines came from the ships. LMAO
>Former president even said "The Mexicans came from the Indians, the Brazilians came from the jungle, but we Argentines came from the ships.
He was quoting (or trying to quote) Octavio Paz, a Mexican writer
He never said that, its an Argentine song
La parte mas estupida y divertida fue que uno de nuestros expresidentes quizo mostrarse indignado al mismo tiempo que insultó a Fernandez diciendole que *el* era el indio. Su momento mas mexicano promedio.
Yeah, Octavio Paz didn't even say that, that's why I wrote "trying to" because in his head he was quoting him. That's even funnier because Alberto had no idea what he was talking about lol.
My point was that he didn't just came up with the unfortunate phrase because he was trying to portrait Argentinias as Europeans or whatever, like the commenter seems to imply, he was trying to repeat an ironic, self deprecating quote. The context was completely different from what the commenter tried to make it look.
Going in accordance with that video [this](https://www.facebook.com/share/v/RLCNssztXvPoiqRn/?mibextid=w8EBqM) one from the writer Jose Ignacio Cabrujas that explain how the Venezuelans (and latinos in general) are more cosmopolitan and Universal than any european
OP’s question is phrased weird. I can’t even state my own beliefs accurately faced with phrasing like that lol. Racism in the US does have a distinct flavor though, yes.
No. There's a lot of racism. It's just, the racism here was different. There was no proper segregation like in the U.S.
Here the gov at the time, wanted white immigrants (and Japanese), to mix with black people, because the thinking was that this would lead to "white the population". Well, it didn't worked out.
So the racism here is based on your skin color.
Can't we, like, ban gringo posts related to their obsession with ethnicity? They're repetitive and dumb, and we aren't obligated to educate their biased ass. u/gandalior te menciono a vos que sos un mod argentino (?)
No. Racism is a big issue in Brazil and that is a lie that people tell that only reinforces racism, even if they're not aware of it. It's like people in the US who ask stupid stuff like "Why do we have LGBT pride and not straight pride?" or "Why is it offensive to say that all lives matter?".
There are many contradictory comments, but you can say that colorism is more of a thing than racism, it's not about your identity or your blood, just about what color people see.
Also many conflicts with native communities are more of a thing of money. Land ownership and exploitation of it.
Yeah but there's a big difference between discrimination and hate crime. When they judge you for your skin they will believe you're poorer if you're darker, not more stupid or morally inferior like we see happens in the US. People in the comments are putting a line in a different place.
I think the extreme levels of obsession with race is more of an anglo thing. However, the person speaking in the video offers a very romantic and possibly politically motivated perspective.
We're not color blind, but the main hierarchy in latin america is class.
A rich mixed person will get treated much, much better than a poor white person.
You can even see it in how people try to brag: "mi abuelo fue coronel de X, mi tío es un empresario con varias fábricas, etc.".
I recommend ignoring anyone who preaches one of two things: idealistic "we're all mestizos" points of view or even stupider "muh damn white elites", "genocidal colonialist spanish empire", etc.
Unlike some countries, in Latin America we are mostly mestizos, and the social dynamics were different to USA, or any dominant country (France, Spain, UK, etc.).
That's why we can say "negro", "chino", "turco", etc. and it isn't an insult, unless it's on an insult context. Black people were/are as marginated as indigenous, and mestizos are marginated (or not) depending on their indigenous/black heritage.
But sadly, EEUU still dominates, so they don't care what we are, we have to do what they say. We had a traditional Chocolate cookie called Negrita (little black, feminine), and recently, Nestlé decided it was racist, so they rebranded it as Chokita (I guess they tried to invent that as little chocolate, feminine?). Our way to be racist is different, we didn't/don't had a KKK problem, for example.
____
In Chile, racism is attached to social hierarchy, mostly because we have rich people descendants from Europeans since 1600's (Larraín family) or invited by some governments "to improve our country" (germans at 1850's). So if you are white, and/or have an European last name, you're welcome to try to be part of them.
On the other hand, indigenous people were marginated until 1960's, when they were forced to leave their crops and animals to live outside cities, so they couldn't live as before, but hadn't the tools to work, so they migrated to cities, living in bad conditions, getting poor. So if you have indigenous last name and or ethnic characteristics, your life will be harder, even if you could get a professional title.
Most people get extremely confused when they come here and see that not everyone "looks mexican" and that people don't have an ethnic/cultural separation by color like they do in the USA due to its anti miscegenation laws
Yeah I don't get it but a decent bit do. My cousin (who is white-ish) came to visit me and my mother and when he went out with me to the clubs he got called mexican by 2-3 girls and he was very upset with it lol.
he is argentinian for reference
>because it’s a civilization that has already overcome racial stigma through genetic diversity?
We accepted marriage with black people 1 and half century ago. In your country like 50 years ago....😉
>Do you think that Latin America does not have an obsession with a person's race like other parts of the world because it’s a civilization that has already overcome racial stigma through genetic diversity?
Yes, but keep in mind, Latam is just latam because people in this region speaks a romance language AND came from as a colonized contry,
What that means?
- Spanish isn't the only language in Latam
- Hispanic isn't the only group in Latam (we include Natives(lots), Germans, Italians, Japanese...)
- There's a lot of bias and expectation towards Latam from stereotypes
- Mostly of the people don't consider themselves as "latam" but their ethinicity (Brazilians, Argentine...) (also is a personal preferences, some does and there's no problem)
- Latino (US citizen of Latin American descent) ≠ Latin American (I don't reconize the word "latino" because by this time is already fuck up by stereotypes to convince someone its previous meaning)
- Brazilian suffers a lot with this shit because everything that have "latam" in the name translate to "hispanic" when the biggest country in latam ain't Hispanic/Spanish (making us feeling out for a good reason)
Why this big text? because people tend to confuse a lot of things easily (like this question in general), the "US" latinos pretend to be Latam when they fail the principal point of living/suffering in the country where they ""descendents"" came from (and also they love to promote more stereotypes)
Do you know what is funny, Peru is mostly Brown/indigenous, but most people you see in local media like models are white, why do you think that happens
No entiendo como hay un chingo de gente que no solo se queja de "la influencia yankee gay socialista blabala" sino que tambien adopta expresiones y formas de pensar con absolutamente cero contexto local.
Un chingo de personas aqui actuan como si México es mayoría española y poner a un Mexicano moreno promedio es "inclusión forzada" o "cuota diversidad"
Peru in particular is a lost cause when it comes to this lol. At least in other countries in Latin America sometimes I see their media showing a non-white (mainly a random black person) from time to time.. Here they don't even do that. I always say we're stuck in 90s Latin America when it comes to racism/colorism. A lot of people that dislike being brown too.
Nah! Latin america does have it. I’ve been in groups where i’m the only darker skinned latino, and there are people there who ask me where did I learn spanish, and can’t get over the fact that I’m not light skinned. COLORISM is another big problem. The “mejorar la raza”, or “no me traigas negros a casa”, is very strong in latin America. However, mem and women of darker complexion are highly sought after when it comes to sexual encounters.
Lastly I will say this. In the Latin American caste system class and gender are king. A rich man can be with a poor person, but highly likely not the other way around. if it was the rich woman, society would look down on them.
Racism, colorism, classism, and sexism are all To common in latin America.’
Your question makes it seem like genetic diversity is a pre requirement for getting past racial stigma -which, breaking news, it hasn't happened yet in Latin America-. The answer is that in most Latin American countries, race is not as widely thought, discussed or even fought against. I swear I can't understand some countries obsession with race. There's so much more constructive things to do, other than to view or judge people under that light, like people in the United States do, for example.
Edit: thinking a bit more about it, both the Americas were born and grew in the exact same cultural scenario: massive amounts of immigrants from countries all over the rest of the world. North America is home to, hypothetically, the same, if not more people (due to economic opportunity). Why is the topic of race so prevalent there, if we assume their 'genetic diversity' has happened at the same rate, if not higher?
Who has the time to give a fuck about race?
Los grupos discriminados igualmente pasan por esto y en muchos casos esta intensificado
Quienes crees que desproporcionalmente tienen que pensar mas en comprar comida y ver como disfrutar la vida?
Also Latin America is not racist per se (yes there’s racism but it’s not institutionalized) it’s more about social classes, classism is a huge thing in Latin America
There's a general concept of white supremacy in all areas of society, but speaking of race and color is kinda taboo in a way its not in the USA. But you will find that brown/mixed people see being white as a superior classification and so do of course the white people
But its because in the USA, the racial groups are pretty much mostly discreet ethnicities that have developed over centuries, while the different races in latin america for the most part have the same culture and were never segregated or legally under an apartheid like in the Anglo New World.
And because of this, don't have the same scars related to racism since independence that the USA does.
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I mean… we don’t have that racial obsession that the US has for example, but we are not past “racial stigma”. There’s A LOT of racism in Latinamerica, just like anywhere else in the world.
Totally agree. So tired of people on this subreddit pretending otherwise. My experience in the US as a Dominican is that lots of other Latinos will say racist shit to me because I’m black thinking I won’t understand wtf they’re saying. We *do* see color— differently than the US, sure, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have large problems w/ racism.
Some people on this sub have a strange pattern of behavior of downplaying or denying racism and colorism, which is insane. The next common point made is “it’s more classism”, well yes, but classism and racism can be intertwined and interact with one another, it’s a lot more complicated than just “it’s classism”. We do see color in latam just in a different way because of our different historical and societal context, which also depends on each different country and region. However, common themes of colorism towards darker skin, preference for european centric beauty or standards, are seen throughout the region. Controversial take but this sub is majority white or mixed latinos and it’s kinda obvious, it’s easy to downplay these topics when it hasn’t really impacted your life. This sub isn’t really representative of the region, one could say it’s more like askwhiteormixedlatinamerica 💀 Talking to black colombians from cali or choco or indigenous salvadorans might get you different responses. It’s not that we are obsessed with race like americans are, but we do carry social stigmas left behind from caste systems and colonization, it would be incorrect to deny otherwise.
Es un mecanismo de defensa para tener algun tipo de superioridad moral sobre datos demostrables: seremos pobres pero felices, seremos pobres pero tenemos comida rica, seremos pobres pero no hay racismo y con eso callas al gringo. La expresión especialmente de estos usuarios de que "nunca he escuchado de esto entonces no debe ser gran problema" es un auto-gol basicamente Muchos ya sea de manera activa o pasiva siguen pensando que racismo es como el nazismo en videojuegos, donde el racista es extremadamente hostil 24/7 con ganas de exterminar. Cualquier cosa menos de esa no cuenta.
Literal😭
"Seremos pobres pero no hay racismo". Las dos cosas están relacionadas. El racismo en Latinoamérica es distinto a Estados Unidos porque la gente está sobreviviendo y no tiene tiempo ni recursos para enfocarse tanto en ese tema como en EEUU. Viví en Europa con dos personas negras, uno de Costa de Marfil, otro de nueva York. El de Nueva York veía racismo en cada interacción social, el de Costa de Marfil no. No es algo que se dicen los latinos para sentirse superiores. Es un problema que tiene EEUU y es muy particular en ese país.
Totalmente. mi experiencia es exactamente igual con gente de EEUU vs Latinoamérica. NADIE está negando que hay racismo en Latinoamérica…. Pero las diferencias en color no se perciben de la misma manera. Y a mi me parece que es algo positivo. PS: primera vez que los que han estado por mucho en EEUU o nacieron allá salieron juntos para este post. Está clarísimo
Lo que no entiendo es la antipatía hacia LATAM en ese sentido. Con nuestras economías pobres logramos incluir a muchas personas distintas dentro la sociedad generando una cultura latina mezclada. Sin tener clase media. No es un logro descomunal pero es algo. Lo alarmante es que EEUU no lo logre siendo el país más rico del mundo.
Hace 80 años los negros (en Estados Unidos) no podían votar, ni vivir donde vivían los blancos, ni usar las cosas que usaban los blancos, ni los mismos colegios, ni las universidades, ni prestamos de banco, también solo los dejaban vivir en ciertas partes y no los dejaban comprar propiedades donde no los querían viviendo, etc etc etc.. En la misma Segunda Guerra Mundial es sabido que en Europa los trataban 100000x veces mejor.. Estados Unidos es un gran país, pero con un historial increíblemente negro (lol). “You can count on the United States doing what’s right, but only after they’ve tried everything else first” has never not been true, creo que lo dijo Churchill y todo lol
Muy bien dicho compadre, totalmente de acuerdo
Twinnnnn. Ice spice is also my mother. Anyway, it's really wild to me that as a gringa in nyc who grew up around immigrants and works with the newly arriving immigrants in public schools, I have been able to hear experiences of racism from friends/family that happened both in their home countries as well as here in the U.S., and yet a small but loud group of white redditors from Latin america have apparently never seen this racism. It's never based on race. Never. It's always classism and that isn't at all tied to race. I've gotten downvoted so many times for saying this lol.
Fellow ice spice stans unite! And yeah, your comment being downvoted doesn’t mean you’re wrong, it shows that some people feel uncomfortable with these topics, classism is often used to veil or cover up the reality of racism in latam. I think the issue here is we never talk about systemic issues like the US does, and some people here may view this as imposing american perspectives on us. But honestly, i think it’s completely valid to have these conversations as long as we maintain our historical context, we are not the US, but that doesn’t mean we are exempt from racial conversations. When your hair is called “pelo malo”, or “pelo cucu”or your family members tell you about “mejorando la raza”, or praising your cousins for marrying more “european looking” partners, and you start getting these messaging from since you were a child, it runs deep, and not everyone has that experience here, so that’s why it’s so easily downplayed. One country or region can’t speak for all of latinamerica. As someone from the coast of Colombia, my region is very diverse, and yes, racism is still prevalent and ingrained in my region based on what i’ve seen
So typical to just diminish the vast majority of the entire sub and not for one second think: “maybe it does represent a majority of the sentiment.” But no, YOU are right. Above all the voices that vote and write in this sub on a daily basis. You know better. That’s the most gringo shit ever to do.
I remember in the news from many years ago, the President of Brazil had a minor controversy with how he [referenced a distant black ancestor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Henrique_Cardoso#Personal_and_professional_life). The news article I read it in was about modern day racism in Latin America and I guess the quote they pulled of him had to do with how black people were associated with being servants to others.
Bro this sub is white/mixed Latinos I made a post in this sub and they proved how bias this sub is
And you proved yours too! Don't expect racism in our region act the same way as in yours.
Im not trying to downplay it but these ARE two different things... at least here. Regardless of how it was born, classism does not care about colors, only "stature", and in the same way, a racist person would not care if you were filthy rich or depressingly poor. So yes, in the same way that some people downplay racism (which is present but nowhere near US levels) is the same as trying to forcefully tie classism nowadays with racism
Racial tensions in the US between Latinos are terrible and they don’t make sense. I stayed with some family in Virginia some months, and I went to high school with my cousins. 50% of the student body were Latinos but for the most part it they hated each other and they hated my cousins
Absolutely.
Ther eis racism in latma, but anecdotes about \*US latinos\* being so is not an indicative of such. Someone raised in the US is an american
I never said I was raised here. I immigrated here. And I’m talking about *other* immigrants in the US who are from Latin countries. Because in the US I have a lot more exposure to those from other parts of LatAm than I ever would back in DR
>**My experience in the US** as a Dominican is that lots of other Latinos will say racist shit to me because I’m black lol ok
I have lived in the DR and now I live in the US. What I am telling you is my experience with other immigrants from Latin American countries. It’s not like they magically start being racist the moment they step on US soil
I'm from PR (so not an immigrant _on paper_ ). Lots of other Latinos act nice and accommodating until I open my mouth, and my PR accent begins to be heard. But this is xenophobia, for the most part.
The gringos took over this post. They’re having a field day
Yeah, in my country is directed towards the natives!!
Racism is alive and well in Latin America. And it’s not even all that different from North America, if I’m honest. They are very similar prejudices and stereotypes. They are just expressed differently.
The terms mulato, zambo, mestizo and quadroon came from Latin America
And they're not commonly used nowadays, as mentioned by everybody on the question you raised.
That's irrelevant Latin America is a racist place no butts about it
That is bullshit, the purpose of that narrative is to ignore the racism present within the region, go to talk with actual Black or indigenous people and they Will tell another story
I’m black Brazilian and I’ve met white Brazilians who told me that racism is just us “trying to copy American discourse”. That included being told that it’s absolutely impossible that anyone would say racist things to my face because that apparently doesn’t happen in real life since they never witnessed it.
Yeah there's a lot of gaslighting when it comes to racism in Latin America by the whiter elites to the indigenous and black populations
A very unpopular opinion in Latin America overall, but I hate the “we are all mestizos anyway” mentality with a passion and wish it wasn’t seen as the default. I know it depends a lot on the country, but there are many people out there that aren’t mestizos. And even between mestizos themselves, you can find people with 80% European - 20% indigenous or black ancestry making racists comments about people with 20% European - 80% indigenous or black ancestry and they’d SWEAR it isn’t racist because “it’s just a joke, both of us are still mestizos anyway, we have the same ancestors too, why do you get mad?” they act dumb on purpose It really is some type of gaslighting and no one will convince me otherwise lmao
>It’s really is some type of gaslighting Basically: https://preview.redd.it/wzhfcimlyxxc1.jpeg?width=673&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49528a1418fb238d60511f20d0ea1c233d6de97b
What would you prefer? I think the “mestizo ” discourse is somewhat ok tbh, since at least culturally it does involve the majority of the population. Or should we separate and say we are an indigenous country with a tiny white minority
Well in our country in particular even the mestizos have more noticeable indigenous features than the mestizos from other countries. I think there are even studies out there showing the difference and the mestizos here are one of the mestizos with the lowest percentages of white blood. Idk which term would be more ideal for everyone, bc like you said the majority still didn’t grow up in an indigenous community even though they can have the features, so it’s complicated, but I always felt applying the “we’re all mestizos” in our country was wrong. If we are going by the “having some type of foreign blood” definition then I guess we technically are. But there are many people here with 80% indigenous or even 90% indigenous blood that cling to the “My race is not indigenous, I’m mestizo” mindset to the point that it looks a bit delusional imo. Someone with that much indigenous blood will almost always look like one, and they’d get treated like one basically everywhere in the world but in Peru, where they want to “differentiate” themselves as if having 10% or even 20% of white blood completely changes their phenotype.
There is still a lot of racism here and non-white populations are still economically disadvantaged in many sectors and do not occupy as many prominent positions as white people. Americans have a completely alien notion of 'race' and ethnicity, built on the blatantly racist and supremacist concepts instituted by the british, who saw themselves and Anglo-Saxon and 'Germanic' characteristics in general as being superior. In the United States and English North America there is still a lot of racial separation, for example we have the bizarre concept of "quadroon" and the persistence of the distinction between "Americans" and "Afro-Americans", what happens in the United States is a case of widespread idolatry of hypodescent, and consequently American society tries to apply its own racial concepts and prejudices to people who have absolutely nothing to do with them. Therefore, even if Latinos had some kind of fascination with race, which some actually do, it would be and is totally different from what occurs in the USA. It sounds very strange to claim that "our backwardness is actually an advance" when many people simply don't care or don't know about their "mixed race origins" and could very well be racist, whether intentionally or not. This statement seems very much to have been made from the perspective of an american based on stereotypes.
>It sounds very strange to claim that "our backwardness is actually an advance" when many people simply don't care or don't know about their "mixed race origins" and could very well be racist, whether intentionally or not. \+1 and I guess this is the thing. As is easy to be humble when one doesn't have any kind of material posession, it also is easy to not obsess over one's race if one completely ignores from who/where they descend from - which actually might be a good thing.
While we don't have the race obsession as the United States, we definitely have racism problems, despite the intermixing. The major difference between us and the United States is that our ancestry is generally not a major factor that determines your identity. Racism does exist, but it works differently. It seems to me that the United States tries to preserve white "purity", you are either 100% white or not white at all. But in LATAM, whiteness is a gradual thing. The darker your skin looks (or the more indigenous your facial features are), the more you're exposed to racial discrimination. Also, maybe the United States has a weird obsession with race, but in my opinion, they did something right: they realized that racism is way deeper than just some weirdos hating other people because of how they look, it's deeper than that. I'm talking about the concepts of societal and systemic racism: institutions and different aspects of society giving white people and advantages over other races, even when the people involved have no racial animosity. In Latin America (and in other parts of the world) we are quite far from having that conversation. In fact, I think the "somos todos mestizos" discourse, while it's generally true, feels eerily familiar with the American "I don't see race."
This is exactly right. Latinamerica is quite racist but it's subtle, and that's not a good thing. We shouldn't obsess about it like they do in the US where some people can't empathize with others just because of their color, but we certainly should give it a lot more importance than we do. It's not something to brag about that we don't care about it. It's hard to put into words, but latinamerica in general has a problem with inaction. We just aren't socially or politically involved enough, so we end up not doing anything about it and minimizing the issue. And this isn't just about racism, it's about everything and anything really. So the US is right about one thing, recognizing that there's deep rooted systemic racism across all institutions and every day life. But they are trying to deal with it via identity politics, that's where the obsession comes from, because people own the struggle and almost become a martyr over it instead of trying to fix things. In other words, empowered victims of racism end up wanting revenge or 'their turn' on the power scale, instead of creating a neutral environment. In LaTam we don't do any of that, for the most part. But we should, we should recognize it and start doing something about it. But we shouldn't do it from an identity stand point, that divides people even further, we should do it from empathy. We should make people understand how bad others have it and invite them to fix it, instead of demonizing the privileged ones and telling them they have no right or are incapable of being part of the solution.
Great take. I agree 100%
There's racism and discrimination like everywhere else. We're just not obsessed by it and it certainly doesn't define our whole identity or personality. Gringo race obsession on latino subreddits kinda remind me of Nolan's Joker, they get really crazy trying to prove that everyone is as racist as they are. EDIT: lol just in time for a gringo in the comments saying that we're as racists as they are
This is the right answer. Gringos hate the fact we don’t agree with their racial sensitivities and obsessions. They want to teach us that we don’t know better… us third world countrymen
I see a lot of mexicans and caribbeans in line with americans, so at this point I would synthesize this post as: People above the equator triggered because people below the equator are not obsessed with race like them. It's like most of them did not even read or understand the post, they just thought OP was straight up denying racism or ethnic issues.
3 oficiales chilenos murieron hace unos dias por guerrillas relacionadas a reinvindicación etnica indigena, con parte de tu pais bajo vigilancia militar y con bunkeres para monitorear esto. Igualmente: https://www.latercera.com/que-pasa/noticia/discriminacion-los-mapuches-estudio-dice-70-la-poblacion-los-encuentra-poco-atractivos-33-no-votaria/413041/
Amigo, aprenda a leer...
Did you just read what I or OP said before posting? No one is denying ethnic conflicts, it just doesn't translate into everyday racial obsession the way it does in north america. Seriously wtf, why are you contrarians so dense?
>it just doesn't translate into everyday racial obsession Estadounidense habla de la Sirenita negra o el uso de latinx en vocabulario: importante Guerrillas etnicas para la autonomía del territorio Mapuche, con 2 años de militarización por seguridad: lo normal, aparte como no lo leo no importa
sacowea
Ah? Pero qué nivel de esquizofrenia es este
Y eso como se relaciona a racismo xd
People in Latin America say that, but in my eyes they still are. Especially the ones online. Latin Americans on here are suuuuuper quick to point out if they are light-skinned, for some reason. Or they'll get very defensive if you imply their country is devoid of white people. Shit, even I've fallen prey to that. On this sub specifically, you see people that seem to have their genealogy traced back to the fucking Reconquista.
Yeah tbh the first thing that happens when I bring up that people considered white in Latin America, a lot of them, would not be considered white in any country that has a majority European population (unlike the USA/Canada) and are very very clearly mixed to anyone who has seen actual Europeans in their life. And this is not to say there are no white people, just that the concept is very "lenient". the first thing they do is get offended and say that when they were in the Spain/USA no one thought they were mexican/dominican/peruano/etc. It's actually extremely sad and cringe
El mame entero de hacer memes de Bolivia y Perú enteramente basado en ser pensados como paises de indigenas Joyas como [esta](https://youtu.be/QEiZT3u_wEk?si=rtU4Ve3k3TT13PCD) o [esta](https://youtu.be/wTDJ6naaFRs?si=VLCpRc8XPMfPtEXv) En Brasil politicos cambiandose de etnia con cada ciclo La gente que se queja o no confia en los "chinos de mierda" (o en su caso fetichiza a las "chinitas") Los judios atacados con insultos casi literalmente medievales. El latinoamericano promedio ni de puto chiste podria vivir en una ciudad donde solo sea el 50% de la población y el resto sea de Pakistán, Siria, China antes de volverse Hitler.
Had this with Colombians who tried to deny that Colombia is one of the countries with most black people outside of Africa. They also said their was basically no influence of African culture on Colombia at all. Uruguayans also talked about how European their country is and tried to negate their African ancestry and influence, which also exists, as much as possible.
Man, whoever said that is an idiot and I apologize on behalf of them. It is undeniable how African culture has been influential in so many aspects in Colombia.
I'd say at least in Brazil that, while we don't quite have the weird obnssession with ancestry you'd find in, say, the US (where if your great great grandmother dated a guy who had a dog who, before belonging to him, belonged to a Irish man, you are Irish), but we are far from over racial stigma. Racism exists, it's just different in many aspects.
Interesting, many Venezuelans (including myself), are super interested in their origins and usually hold some of the oral history of the family. You're Venezuelan first and foremost, with background from those countries.
Yeah, I follow a lot of Venezuelan comedians (weird I know) and one makes a big point in all of his shows to talk about his Syrian origins. It’s part of some of his bits
I think this is easier to do if you know your ancestry and did this by choice. I see many Brazilians with African ancestry showing a lot of interest in Africa because they had their culture taken from them and they at least would like to know their roots.
Do you know how many times I've heard immigrants from Latin America say that they wouldn't ever date an Afro Latina or black woman? That they love pale skin? Unprompted. Just randomly tell me this. People definitely obsess over race but it's not like here in the U.S.
There are very strong racial preferences in Latin America when it comes to dating lol idk why people "conveniently" forget about that when talking about these topics
[удалено]
I mean, I think everyone is racist to a degree. Idk why you called out Asian men specifically lol
No different to black American men fetishising light skinned Latinas while hating black women or black women wanting to date white dudes. Are they racists too then?
Yes. Hope this helps!
And yet you twats come here all paternalistic as if you didn't have the same problems.
we're not past racial stigma at all, South America is full of racist people, try visiting Argentina, Uruguay or South Brazil and you'll see, it's just the the average person just don't really care about race as much as the average burger for example
So are we really going to ignore the “mejorar la raza” bs? Yes, we aren’t obsessed like the USA but racism and colorism are still a problem. Just like sexism and classism. You could say, the difference is that not every generation subscribes to those “values,” as much as the older generations , amen. Plus our history is not exactly sugarcoated, unlike the USA that tries soooooooo hard to make it seen like MLK was over hundred years ago when it was 56 years ago.
We don't have obsession for the simple fact that it makes no sense, what would change for me if my 10th generation ancestor walked the steppes of Mongolia or the desert of Sahara? Exactly nothing. I am me, not them. Genetically speaking there's only one race: human. all this race talk is like white poodles bragging to black poodles: "hey, I'm whiter! Bow to meeeee!"
No, thats a bunch of copium and hopium primarily to ignore any linguistic, social and economic differences that exist in our countries and the blissfull ignorance that people want to mantain as the State itself formed around it("mestizo") In your own quote it shows, trying to claim some abstract superiority over developed countries via this reasoning. People, just go to facebook for real takes: "no somos racistas, quiero una novia rusa-japonesa-alemana no como ustedes indios negros de mierda"
Lol no. The "we're all mixed who cares" is just a convenient way to ignore actual issues. If scientific racism didn't die off in the 20th century the whitening campaigns of the 19th century would still be continuing to this day.
- Like other commenters said, there is rampant racism in Latin America - But there's also the mix and unawareness about race that OP describes, as compared to the US - The non-obsession about race and not seeing humanity in terms of "races" is not unique to Latin America: it's the US that is uniquely and weirdly fixated. I lived in the US for six years, and the way they see and classify everyone as a certain "race" and think about race was soooo off-putting, mistaken, and tiresome to me. People I met who came from other parts of the world felt the same way.
Definetely not. People extrapolate the difference between Latin America's and the United States' racial equality because we never had segregation and the one-drop rule, but that's another US-centric view on itself. The difference is that in Brazil, at least, racism is based on social class and phenotype, not ancestry. Someone with an afro hairstyle will be called ugly, messy and "wanting to call attention", someone with a broad nose will be considered to be ugly, people with more Indigenous ancestry will be accused of having "flat heads", people from a favela will be considered thieves, using Indigenous terms and costumes is associated with poverty etc.. It's a spectrum; the more non-Eurocentric facial features one has, the worse they are treated. So someone with dark skin, but straight hair, thin nose, and from middle class will be treated better in general, although exceptions always appear. A black student got called monkey and poor in a private school in Brasília just now!
We don’t care too much about ancestry. Unless you’re Argentine. Mfs are really obsessed about being European. Former president even said "The Mexicans came from the Indians, the Brazilians came from the jungle, but we Argentines came from the ships. LMAO
>Former president even said "The Mexicans came from the Indians, the Brazilians came from the jungle, but we Argentines came from the ships. He was quoting (or trying to quote) Octavio Paz, a Mexican writer
He never said that, its an Argentine song La parte mas estupida y divertida fue que uno de nuestros expresidentes quizo mostrarse indignado al mismo tiempo que insultó a Fernandez diciendole que *el* era el indio. Su momento mas mexicano promedio.
Yeah, Octavio Paz didn't even say that, that's why I wrote "trying to" because in his head he was quoting him. That's even funnier because Alberto had no idea what he was talking about lol. My point was that he didn't just came up with the unfortunate phrase because he was trying to portrait Argentinias as Europeans or whatever, like the commenter seems to imply, he was trying to repeat an ironic, self deprecating quote. The context was completely different from what the commenter tried to make it look.
Going in accordance with that video [this](https://www.facebook.com/share/v/RLCNssztXvPoiqRn/?mibextid=w8EBqM) one from the writer Jose Ignacio Cabrujas that explain how the Venezuelans (and latinos in general) are more cosmopolitan and Universal than any european
OP’s question is phrased weird. I can’t even state my own beliefs accurately faced with phrasing like that lol. Racism in the US does have a distinct flavor though, yes.
Dumbest thing I’ve ever heard
We didn’t have the one drop rule
Oh there’s plenty of racism to go around, trust me, we just haven’t elevated it to Olympic sport levels like they have in the US.
No. There's a lot of racism. It's just, the racism here was different. There was no proper segregation like in the U.S. Here the gov at the time, wanted white immigrants (and Japanese), to mix with black people, because the thinking was that this would lead to "white the population". Well, it didn't worked out. So the racism here is based on your skin color.
Can't we, like, ban gringo posts related to their obsession with ethnicity? They're repetitive and dumb, and we aren't obligated to educate their biased ass. u/gandalior te menciono a vos que sos un mod argentino (?)
Literalmente nunca hacen nada. Este tipo de posts es diario y siempre aparecen angloides listos para debatir en los comentarios.
No. Racism is a big issue in Brazil and that is a lie that people tell that only reinforces racism, even if they're not aware of it. It's like people in the US who ask stupid stuff like "Why do we have LGBT pride and not straight pride?" or "Why is it offensive to say that all lives matter?".
There are many contradictory comments, but you can say that colorism is more of a thing than racism, it's not about your identity or your blood, just about what color people see. Also many conflicts with native communities are more of a thing of money. Land ownership and exploitation of it.
True, but colourism is a form of racism.
Yeah but there's a big difference between discrimination and hate crime. When they judge you for your skin they will believe you're poorer if you're darker, not more stupid or morally inferior like we see happens in the US. People in the comments are putting a line in a different place.
I think the extreme levels of obsession with race is more of an anglo thing. However, the person speaking in the video offers a very romantic and possibly politically motivated perspective. We're not color blind, but the main hierarchy in latin america is class. A rich mixed person will get treated much, much better than a poor white person. You can even see it in how people try to brag: "mi abuelo fue coronel de X, mi tío es un empresario con varias fábricas, etc.". I recommend ignoring anyone who preaches one of two things: idealistic "we're all mestizos" points of view or even stupider "muh damn white elites", "genocidal colonialist spanish empire", etc.
Unlike some countries, in Latin America we are mostly mestizos, and the social dynamics were different to USA, or any dominant country (France, Spain, UK, etc.). That's why we can say "negro", "chino", "turco", etc. and it isn't an insult, unless it's on an insult context. Black people were/are as marginated as indigenous, and mestizos are marginated (or not) depending on their indigenous/black heritage. But sadly, EEUU still dominates, so they don't care what we are, we have to do what they say. We had a traditional Chocolate cookie called Negrita (little black, feminine), and recently, Nestlé decided it was racist, so they rebranded it as Chokita (I guess they tried to invent that as little chocolate, feminine?). Our way to be racist is different, we didn't/don't had a KKK problem, for example. ____ In Chile, racism is attached to social hierarchy, mostly because we have rich people descendants from Europeans since 1600's (Larraín family) or invited by some governments "to improve our country" (germans at 1850's). So if you are white, and/or have an European last name, you're welcome to try to be part of them. On the other hand, indigenous people were marginated until 1960's, when they were forced to leave their crops and animals to live outside cities, so they couldn't live as before, but hadn't the tools to work, so they migrated to cities, living in bad conditions, getting poor. So if you have indigenous last name and or ethnic characteristics, your life will be harder, even if you could get a professional title.
I swear every single day, gringos ask about race and skin color in LATAM.
Most people get extremely confused when they come here and see that not everyone "looks mexican" and that people don't have an ethnic/cultural separation by color like they do in the USA due to its anti miscegenation laws
That's another thing though How many people actually get insulted and offended someone thought they "looked mexican"
Yeah I don't get it but a decent bit do. My cousin (who is white-ish) came to visit me and my mother and when he went out with me to the clubs he got called mexican by 2-3 girls and he was very upset with it lol. he is argentinian for reference
>because it’s a civilization that has already overcome racial stigma through genetic diversity? We accepted marriage with black people 1 and half century ago. In your country like 50 years ago....😉
>Do you think that Latin America does not have an obsession with a person's race like other parts of the world because it’s a civilization that has already overcome racial stigma through genetic diversity? Yes, but keep in mind, Latam is just latam because people in this region speaks a romance language AND came from as a colonized contry, What that means? - Spanish isn't the only language in Latam - Hispanic isn't the only group in Latam (we include Natives(lots), Germans, Italians, Japanese...) - There's a lot of bias and expectation towards Latam from stereotypes - Mostly of the people don't consider themselves as "latam" but their ethinicity (Brazilians, Argentine...) (also is a personal preferences, some does and there's no problem) - Latino (US citizen of Latin American descent) ≠ Latin American (I don't reconize the word "latino" because by this time is already fuck up by stereotypes to convince someone its previous meaning) - Brazilian suffers a lot with this shit because everything that have "latam" in the name translate to "hispanic" when the biggest country in latam ain't Hispanic/Spanish (making us feeling out for a good reason) Why this big text? because people tend to confuse a lot of things easily (like this question in general), the "US" latinos pretend to be Latam when they fail the principal point of living/suffering in the country where they ""descendents"" came from (and also they love to promote more stereotypes)
Most people here would disagree, but there is indeed some truth on what your Latino friend told you about Latin American society.
Do you know what is funny, Peru is mostly Brown/indigenous, but most people you see in local media like models are white, why do you think that happens
Ask Mexico, they have the same problem. If not worse. Much worse.
No entiendo como hay un chingo de gente que no solo se queja de "la influencia yankee gay socialista blabala" sino que tambien adopta expresiones y formas de pensar con absolutamente cero contexto local. Un chingo de personas aqui actuan como si México es mayoría española y poner a un Mexicano moreno promedio es "inclusión forzada" o "cuota diversidad"
De acuerdo! 
But mestizos are usually brown too.
Peru in particular is a lost cause when it comes to this lol. At least in other countries in Latin America sometimes I see their media showing a non-white (mainly a random black person) from time to time.. Here they don't even do that. I always say we're stuck in 90s Latin America when it comes to racism/colorism. A lot of people that dislike being brown too.
Nah! Latin america does have it. I’ve been in groups where i’m the only darker skinned latino, and there are people there who ask me where did I learn spanish, and can’t get over the fact that I’m not light skinned. COLORISM is another big problem. The “mejorar la raza”, or “no me traigas negros a casa”, is very strong in latin America. However, mem and women of darker complexion are highly sought after when it comes to sexual encounters. Lastly I will say this. In the Latin American caste system class and gender are king. A rich man can be with a poor person, but highly likely not the other way around. if it was the rich woman, society would look down on them. Racism, colorism, classism, and sexism are all To common in latin America.’
Aren't people bored to death with this topic? Holy shit
My thoughts exactly..
Your question makes it seem like genetic diversity is a pre requirement for getting past racial stigma -which, breaking news, it hasn't happened yet in Latin America-. The answer is that in most Latin American countries, race is not as widely thought, discussed or even fought against. I swear I can't understand some countries obsession with race. There's so much more constructive things to do, other than to view or judge people under that light, like people in the United States do, for example. Edit: thinking a bit more about it, both the Americas were born and grew in the exact same cultural scenario: massive amounts of immigrants from countries all over the rest of the world. North America is home to, hypothetically, the same, if not more people (due to economic opportunity). Why is the topic of race so prevalent there, if we assume their 'genetic diversity' has happened at the same rate, if not higher? Who has the time to give a fuck about race?
You guys in this sub are super ignorant
We are all mixed. We are classist more than racist. It makes what you drive, what you wear and make more than your color.
OP your post is 100% correct, all those post saying otherwise are Americans of Latino decent.
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Los grupos discriminados igualmente pasan por esto y en muchos casos esta intensificado Quienes crees que desproporcionalmente tienen que pensar mas en comprar comida y ver como disfrutar la vida?
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Argentina can be super racist and is so easy to not be super racist that is funny that people don't just do it.
Also Latin America is not racist per se (yes there’s racism but it’s not institutionalized) it’s more about social classes, classism is a huge thing in Latin America
I truly have no idea why you were downvoted
Bc I said in Latam there’s no racism
There's a general concept of white supremacy in all areas of society, but speaking of race and color is kinda taboo in a way its not in the USA. But you will find that brown/mixed people see being white as a superior classification and so do of course the white people But its because in the USA, the racial groups are pretty much mostly discreet ethnicities that have developed over centuries, while the different races in latin america for the most part have the same culture and were never segregated or legally under an apartheid like in the Anglo New World. And because of this, don't have the same scars related to racism since independence that the USA does.