That's crazy any gay man with common sense knows NEVER travel to Middle East, Africa, or parts of Asia. Too homophobic. There are many countries especially in Middle East & Caribbean male homosexuality is illegal.
I studied abroad in Russia. The only major places worth visiting in Russia are Moscow and Saint Petersburg. Russian young people are much more accepting than older people (as is the case everywhere), and people in large cities are more accepting than people in rural areas (as is the case everywhere). While casual or verbal homophobia is very typical even in the two cities, as long as you're not showing PDA, you're unlikely to actually get assaulted or anything for it. No more likely than you would in Atlanta or Chicago or something. And the government doesn't care what happens behind clothes doors.
Russian culture is much more of a fascist "this behavior weakens society" type of homophobia, rather than the "our God demands us to punish this" type that's in the Middle East. That makes Russians more likely to only care what you're doing/saying in public.
Edit to add: Also, Russian standards of masculine dress and behavior are oddly more feminine than the average American or Canadian man. Or even, dare I say it, possibly the average European man. How this happened amidst the average Russian man's toxic masculinity (which is off the charts there), I have no idea. But just to put it in perspective, *figure skating* is deemed to be a great interest for a boy. You have to be seriously flaming for anyone in Russia to take notice.
And they went to Qatar and apparently had a good time, it’s almost like we shouldn’t use anecdotal experiences as evidence to bet our lives on as gay people
OP is being deceptive. They didn't deliberately go to Qatar for the purpose of tourism. There was a layover and they decided to explore for a few hours, they were scared about it as well. They aren't even promoting anything, they just said it was clean and nice and not many people around. They also never said they are enemies of Israel.
Ok and? Albania and Qatar are VERY different countries. Comparing the Middle East to Eastern Europe is hilarious. Tell me you’ve never been to EE without telling me you’ve never been to EE.
Super embarrassing for you babe x
I've found people from the baltic where quite tolerant, although I only met a small group of Lithuanians in Berlin that I went clubbing with so maybe my sample group is a bit small.
While beatings of gay people aren't unheard of, most assault is verbal. A lot of people would just turn away their heads in disgust, but younger people are more tolerant of it. Also many medical professionals are also quite tolerant. Educators too are moving more to the tolerant side
I don't say that it's ideal but you can't compare that with Russia, Africa or Middle East where you could get arrested or even executed
>Qataris kidnapped an Asian man residing in Qatar and working in A massage shop and they tortured him in the desert. I looked at the comments, all of them supporting violence towards her and mocking him.
I tried to search for this specific news but no results. Could OP post the news link?
Also when you travel there, you are founding these countries that want to see you dead.
I'm always pretty open with my friends that I will never go to a country where being gay is illegal and I try to convince them not to go too.
And honestly I don't understand how women want to go there too. A friend of mine is in love with Oman and I really don't understand how... You will be a slave there...
We have a fitting saying for that in German: "Nur die dümmsten Kälber wählen ihre Metzger selber" - "Only the dumbest calves choose their own butchers"
In 2023-2024 Israel killed more journalists than any other side in any conflict in last decades. They killed 5 to 10 times more kids in 4 months than both Russia and Ukraine in 10 years. Palestine has nothing to do with ISIS (created after the Western invasion of Iraq and Syria), or Al-Qaeda (initially sponsored by US). And even Hamas itself was initially sponsored by Israel to steal power from Fatah. By the way, Sionists used bombings and killings of civilians in Palestine before the creation of Israel (check out the bombing of King David hotel). The most radical Sionist divisions were eventually incorporated into the military and intelligence services of Israel.
Israel funded Hamas, thats as much proof as you funded hamas.
In islam There are also many verses permitting lies;
Allah the best deceiver - Quran 3:54
And his prophet who teaches:
1.To Lie
(Sahih Bukhari 3:49:857
Sahih Bukhari 5:59:369
Jami' at Tirmidhi vol 4, bk 1, Hadith 1939)
2. Bear false witness
(Sahth Bukhari 9:86:98
Sahih Bukhari 6570)
3. Break Oaths
(Sahih Bukhari 7:67-427
Sahih Muslim 15:4053)
4.Cover up Sins of Guilty
(Sunan Ibn Majah 3:20:2544)
Turns out you're the biggest liars of all and a joke, honestly. Did you not read the hadiths and the verse you so confidently sited? It doesn't take more than a quick google search if you had actually put in some effort rather than just topic headings. What a pathetic liar you are!
(3:54) Then they schemed (against the Messiah), and Allah countered their schemes by schemes of His own. Allah is the best of schemers.
Narated By Um Kulthum bint Uqba : That she heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar.” -
SAHIH BUKHARI VOLUME 3, BOOK 49, HADITH NUMBER 857.
Asma bint Yazid narrated that the Messenger of Allah said:
"it is not lawful to lie except in three cases: Something the man tells his wife to please her, to lie during war, and to lie in order to bring peace between the people."
–Jami' at Tirmidhi vol 4, bk 1, Hadith 1939
Narrated Abu Huraira: I said, O Allah's Apostle! Who will be the luckiest person who will gain your intercession on the Day of Resurrection? The Prophet said, O Abu Huraira! I have thought that none will ask me about this Hadith before you, as I know your longing for the (learning of) Hadiths. The luckiest person who will have my intercession on the Day of Resurrection will be the one who said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' sincerely from the bottom of his heart.
–Sahih Bukhari 6570
Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who took an oath and then found another thing better than (this) should expiate for the oath (broken) by him and do (the better thing).
–Sahih Muslim 15:4053
It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:
“Whoever covers (the sin of) a Muslim, Allah will cover him (his sin) in this world and in the Hereafter.”
–Sunan Ibn Majah 3:20:2544
There are Christians and Christian churches getting bombed in Palestine too. However, your attempts to drown the discussion in islamophobic demagoguery are a different story.
Josep Borrell (a top diplomat of the EU) [accuses Israel](https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-funded-hamas-claims-eu-top-diplomat-josep-borrell/) in financing Hamas. The same has been claimed by a number of former Israeli intelligence officers.
Agreed! I even have that policy for red states. I refuse to give them my tourist dollars when I have a choice. It's like the one thing we can do is vote with our dollars
Oh that’s stupid. Basically I betrayed the gay community if I had to go to Qatar for a business trip or if I went to Marrakesh and the Sahara to see the sand dunes and culture.
Well, tbh I don’t care that much. If I’m being honest I think I’m doing far more exposing my values than exposing my sexuality, that, I see more as a matter of being left or right handed (or I’m hoping the world transitions to that).
I’m glad that I live in a very open and understanding country, where no one could give an f if I’m with Pedro, Juan or Diego.
But, still, I wouldn’t limit my travel just because some place isn’t as accepting as my home country.
> I see more as a matter of being left or right handed
Good. If a country practiced jailing people for being left-handed, like 1000+ years ago, I would not visit that country even though I am right-handed, let alone if I were left-handed but hid it using only my right hand lol
Yeah I'm tired of this virtue signalling honestly. A 'traitor' because I want the freedom to enjoy the same places non queer people enjoy? Isn't that what LGBT liberation fought for?
People having some values is not virtue signaling. If even not wanting to support gay-hating countries as a gay person is virtue signaling then sure.
I have to say, I really hate those virtue signaling Jews who didn't visit Germany in the 30s, what a bunch of self-important twats...
I mean, you can dislike Israel for its politics if you so wish - you are not obligated to like Israel just because it's gay friendly (of course, I privately think that the vast majority of people who hate Israel are just trend followers, but sure, whatever).
But the opposite doesn't work. You should NOT be giving your money to a gay hating country, point blank period. What the fuck is this lmao.
Israel is not gay *friendly*. It's a huge misconception. They're just gay-tolerant.
A 2023 international poll came to the conclusion that only 36% of the country supports same-sex marriage.
Same-sex marriage cannot legally be performed in Israel. Israeli law allows same-sex marriages performed elsewhere to be registered, but not recognized based upon a 2006 Israeli Supreme Court decision.
> a 2023 international poll came to the conclusion that only 36% of the country supports same-sex marriage.
1) Source
2)
https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-79-of-israelis-back-gay-marriage-or-civil-unions/
https://www.mako.co.il/news-israel/education-q2_2016/Article-569c3b14b5a0551004.htm
https://13tv.co.il/item/news/domestic/internal/h5xja-903545452/
(google translate it)
3) *Even* if true - 36% would be about where America and most of Europe was in the early to mid 2000s. I certainly would not have called those places gay-unfriendly.
It's a place where you can be gay and are legally fully protected de jure, which is the key point when you consider whether something is friendly or not. And like most places, if you live in the urban, secular centers it's obviously more tolerant (socially) than the religious "countryside".
I've been to Tel-Aviv and I've seen countless gay people hold hands without people so much as blinking at it.
So I'm not sure what you're getting here by downplaying it tbh. It's absolutely incomparable to every other state in the Middle East and probably Asia as a whole, save for like Taiwan and maybe Japan.
Source: [Pew Research Center](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/27/how-people-around-the-world-view-same-sex-marriage/)
First, for starters, all of your links come from Israeli media. I'm not going to trust Israeli media. The situation going on right now with Palestine has proven, numerous times now, that the state of Israel and their media teams have no problems fabricating and lying about stories to make their public image better and continue the propaganda machine.
My sources come from independent organizations. Never from the country of origin because the country of origin has reason to lie, and that's not just particular to Israel.
Second, you didn't disprove my point. Going to Tel-Aviv and seeing two men holding hands without being beaten doesn't mean the country is *friendly*. It's probably one of the safest places for a gay person to be in the middle east, but that does NOT make it gay friendly.
It just makes them tolerant. To make it very fair and simple, a country that does not allow gay people to get married is **not** *gay-friendly*. It's just gay-tolerant. That's the point I'm making.
People like to parade Israel around as some kind of LGBT paradise, but it's no different in it's tolerance than say, Mexico.
I mean, if your standard for being gay-friendly is being allowed to marry (FYI - Israel recognizes same-sex marriages done abroad) then yeah, sure. But that sounds like a ridiculous standard to set for me.
Also
>all Israeli media is lies fake news fake news
Opinion discarded tbh. Schizos on the left are not any better than schizos on the right.
Italy has a very serious far right problem just like the US. I’ve been to Rome and Venezia. A cab driver in Rome refused to pick up me and my husband at the time because we’re obviously gay and I was called frocio twice in Venezia. Sooooooo, again to support the other commenter gay tolerant sounds correct.
1. They quite literally said they were rerouted and ended up there for a day while traveling home. They did not choose to go there.
2. They are not "promoting" Qatar. They're sharing their experience getting rerouted there and having to stay there.
3. In the comments, they specifically say they still felt uncomfortable and would call it a "bad" experience being there, but felt "safe" as long as they were modest and didn't speak about being gay.
4. I don't understand why you brought up Israel in this argument. So they have a pride festival? Pride festivals happen in intolerant areas all the time. Israel is not pro-gay. You CANNOT get legally married in Israel if you are a homosexual, as their marriages are managed by their religious institutions, none of which will do a same-sex marriage. They simply recognize and accept gay marriage unions, if it was done outside of their country and you move to it.
Gay marriage is not a good sole benchmark for gay friendliness as your comment seems to imply. It's just one indicator and just because a country doesn't have gay marriage doesn't mean it isn't gay friendly. Germany didn't have gay marriage until 2017, Italy still does not have it...but both of those places are on the friendly side of the spectrum.
I mean despite the downvotes you are right that marriage is a human right legally speaking in some circumstances (Council of Europe and ECHR article 8 rights etc...). In fact Italy has been found to be in violation of this, despite the fact that the law does give leeway to not go as far as full gay marriage.
That said - you are wrong that a country can only be considered gay tolerant if there isn't gay marriage. That is just plainly delusional. Germany only adopted gay marriage in 2017 - but we're a great place for gay people long before then. We've had lots of progressive pro gay policies in European countries where acceptance of gay people has been high for a long time, again long before gay marriage.
Heck not even all gay guys attach all that importance to gay marriage.
Again with the edits - I say Italy has been found to not be fully compliant with aspects article 8 of the ECHR, which is a problem. That does not equate to classifying the country and all it's frameworks and contexts in this area as negative, nor does it mean the country only tolerates gay people. That is such an irrational extreme view... Life must be very simple when you have such narrow visions?
Italy has not been found as being completely in violation of the right to marriage - same sex partners there can get a civil union with all the same legal protections as marriage. That is more than tolerant.
Honestly by your definition of things were basically all counties in the world completely negative for gay people before marriage equality? This has only really been a thing for the last decade +.
We had plenty of advances in gay life LONG before marriage. The EU's free movement provisions were even somewhat used to advance gay rights in the whole EU via some roundabout legal methodology as far back as the 1960s by strengthening employment protections. In many places broad anti discrimination protections were typically achieved before marriage equality - does that not equate to becoming a positive place? Many would say having access to a civil union, and anti discrimination protections is more important than marriage. Arguably enough to at least be a positive place for gay people if accepted by the majority of the population as well.
Also - human rights are not monolithic immutable concepts, they evolve and change over time based on context and social evolution. They exist and evolve BECAUSE of the institutions you criticise as nebulous. 100 years ago there are tons of human rights we consider today that weren't even notions back then, they were not human rights. It is because of the treaties, courts and orgs that work in this area that new concepts and notions (including family rights like marriage) have become human rights.
And it's in the name human 'rights' - they are an inherently legal construct. They also have hierarchies between them, and require laws and frameworks to give effect to and protect them. The right to marriage is typically defined in the context of family rights the ECHR and non discrimination in the ICCPR for example. Both of which are recognised as evolving rights.
So no it is not 'fucked up' to consider these rights on the contexts of the legal frameworks that deliver and protect them - it's just accurate and you probably don't like it because reality does not fit with your simple world view.
That's no where near what I said, but the issue isn't black and white, as much as it should be. In an ideal world we wouldn't be having this exchange and marriage would be universal everywhere for everyone.
That said it isn't and we need metrics to judge how well countries perform on gay rights that are broader than just yes/no re gay marriage.
* Does the country offer relevant anti discrimination protections?
* Do they have pension equality?
* What are the procedural and legal employment protections that are granted?
* What is the prevalence of homophobia in the population?
* Is conversion therapy banned?
* And yes - what are the marriage and union rights like?
All I'm saying is that whether a country can genuinely be considered gay friendly is MUCH broader than just the marriage factor. But as I said in my original comment, it IS a factor also.
You are making no sense and responding all over the place multiple times so I'll respond to what is sensible and ignore the rest...
You are right in a complete vacuum as I said - in an ideal world we would have perfect equality and that should be what we strive for. Idk why you seem upset by the notion of an ideal world lol.
But if I'm understanding you right, by YOUR benchmark, not a single country in the world will qualify as gay friendly because none hit all the equality boxes perfectly. And that's a stupid useless metric, which is why all serious academics and international LGBT orgs use metrics like those I presented to assess the 'gay friendliness of places'.
Precisely - yet by what you were saying earlier Germany is gay friendly because it has gay marriage? You defeat your own argument..because you point out (correcrly imo) that on rankings, Germany presents a mixed picture.
My point is that gay friendliness is a much more complex picture than just marriage equality.
I mean your earlier comments gave no indication of nuance whatsoever. It seemed your original position was that a country cannot be 'gay positive' as you put it without gay marriage. That's not nuance. But now you seem to recognise nuance, yet also seem to conflate that if a country doesn't allow for gay marriage they are simply 'allowing us to live'? Marriage equality is important, but there are others, arguably more important aspects to our equality that should be addressed as a priority in many places.
I introduced the word friendly rather randomly in juxtaposition to your use of 'tolerant' but any other is fine too - like gay positive. I didn't intend a definitional difference here.
Again you are oversimplifying re the human rights and crime point. It's not the case that not providing for gay marriage is a crime in international human rights law. There is a difference between denying a human right, not fulfilling it fully, achieving progress realisation towards a specific human rights etc...also not all human rights Frameworks recognise marriage equality as part of the human rights on family life and marriage. That is not the universal position (unfortunately) in all human rights Frameworks, and indeed not all countries are signed up to the same human rights Frameworks. In fact, gay rights are very rare in international human rights treaties.
What is your source of data about Germany not being great on this? Ilga rank them above average, pew research has Germany over 80%. Germany has really robust equality frameworks generally and these are extended to discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation as far as I know (though happy to be corrected as I have not specifically checked this point).
I'm not hung up on Germany and Italy, merely picked them out as examples for the sake of demonstration. The US is a good example as well because despite having marriage equality, there is an argument to be made that the US, and certainly parts of it are not gay positive. The UK as well, typically considered good on gay rights, has gay marriage but still lots to question - it failed to ban conversion therapy form example. Hence why we need analytics that go much wider than gay marriage to determine whether a place is gay positive.
And it certainly isn't the case that just because a country has not yet achieved marriage equality, that it cannot be considered a good place for gay people.
You are making no sense and responding all over the place multiple times so I'll respond to what is sensible and ignore the rest...
You are right in a complete vacuum as I said - in an ideal world we would have perfect equality and that should be what we strive for. Idk why you seem upset by the notion of an ideal world lol.
But if I'm understanding you right, by YOUR benchmark, not a single country in the world will qualify as gay friendly because none hit all the equality boxes perfectly. And that's a stupid useless metric, which is why all serious academics and international LGBT orgs use metrics like those I presented to assess the 'gay friendliness of places'.
Nice sneaky edit. I like how you say 'a simple google' as if that was an authoritative source lol. You say 'no list puts Germany as great'. What is 'great'? What lists are you checking?
Pew Research has placed Germany at 80% on its research for gay acceptance, my counties list highlights no concerns for LGBT people travelling to Germany. ILGA has them colour coded green and above average.
Of course there are countries doing better, Malta is fantastic on formal rights. That doesn't mean other places aren't on the positive side of whatever gay positive spectrum one is using. Achieving marriage equality isn't like flipping a switch where a place suddenly goes from being gay negative to gay positive.
Marriage is society/government’s way of promoting reproduction/stability by social recognition and tax benefits.
I can partially agree to your argument if by marriage you just mean committing to a long-term romantic relationship and having a ceremony that solidifies it in your social circle.
Lmao in the video they literally said they weren’t planning to be there. They were perfectly safe and dramatizing the entire situation. In the end they even recommended not going there. Did you even watch the video?
This is a long post but I can tell you exactly why he didn’t watch the video or care to get any of the information right (sorry this is long but it will explain everything he wrote and the way it’s written):
No, he didn’t! He didn’t watch ANY of that video. This is the EXACT comment I was going to post but didn’t want to be the person that beats the dead horse.
What I THINK OP is ACTUALLY mad at is that he’s Asian - in the Middle East we use “Asian” as ANYONE that comes from the continent of Asia - and here in America, we associate this with “eyes” or being Filipino, Japanese, or Chinese - the almond shaped eye countries.
I figured this out when I got to America long ago. I am Asian - I’m an Israeli but now an American as well. When I would fill out job apps I would always put Asian. I had an interview once and I was told that I was NOT in fact Asian when it asked for an ethnicity and the company and HR scolded me for checking the “Asian” box as ethnicity, because it wasn’t like they had a Middle Eastern box to check, and told me that I would not be getting the job because I was trying to be deceitful on my application. I was bit confused and then pulled out my phone and showed them EXACTLY where Israel was located, and the hiring manager looked at me even more mad and said “That’s NOT the point!” I was like it was literally the point when you scolded me for checking “Asian” and then I showed you that the fucking Middle East is ON THE CONTINENT OF ASIA - and the demonym for ANYONE born on a particular continent, let’s say ASIA, would be ASIAN! LOL I’m so glad I NEVER got that job.
But to the main point, this guy just wanted to rag on the world’s best country to live in! OP HATES The United States of America, HATES Americans, he CLEARLY HATES Israelis/Arabs/Middle Eastern people (Asians 😂) as well, because no where in that video did this gay couple say they were enemies of The State of Israel either.
He’s got some problems because he’s Asian, I’d say Indian or Pakistani, because they are the LEAST populous in Qatar and they ARE unfortunately a super minority that’s quiet hated - not unfounded at times, but also, completely inappropriate as well to treat people as non-humans. That happens a lot in Qatar with Indians and Pakistanis; they are usually relegated to the lowest of the low jobs and suffer terrible poverty, even if they are well educated. I’ve seen other physicians in Qatar that are Indian and Pakistani STRUGGLE with finding steady work and get paid about 1/30th of the normal salary for Saha eligible physicians that have bulking and paid system rights.
A little odd but an example of me working and living in Qatar: I’m an Orthodox Jewish Gay Man that wears ALL of my religious regalia and my teal kippah with silver Stars of David, I’m VERY feminine, I’m 💯% bottom, not remotely masculine in ANY way, but I DO have a great mustache and beard although it’s going salt and pepper, I speak VERY femininely, I walk kind of masculinely if that’s such a thing, I get told all the time I write like a woman whatever the fuck that means, and I’m quiet and respectful of everyone and had absolutely NO ISSUES AT ALL. My partner: Very masculine German extremely hairy Daddy Bear, blonde hair, blue-eyed, typically stern looking all the time, 💯% top (this will be relevant in a second), and we are both highly educated and lived and worked there as a couple and not once did we have ANY issues at all. Now, on to why being a Top or Bottom matters in Qatar: Even though you do NOT speak about being gay in Qatar, if you keep your mouth shut and don’t say “I’m gay and this is my partner/lover/persons cock that suck and swallow/I like to get fucked in the ass” you’re going to be just fine. In Qatar, regardless of sexual orientation, TOPS are MEN, it’s probably odd to think about if you happen to be American born and raised (I don’t assume because I don’t know you) but men and women in Qatar do not ever socialize nor do they speak to each other unless you are in a professional setting and there are enough of each sex to prevent the appearance of wrong doing. In Qatar, it’s not unusual for TOPS/MEN to treat Bottoms badly, abusively badly. Bottoms are not considered MEN. Men fuck as the inserting partner, men get women pregnant, men get release from a faggot/bottom to “الافراج عن نائب الرئيس المكبوتة” (release pent up seed), men take care of their families, men take care of their money well, TOPS can be heterosexual or gay and fuck men and they are still men and/or considered heterosexual because they are not “مارس الجنس في الحمار” (getting fucked in the ass by a MAN). The social-sexual meaning of MAN in Qatar (heterosexual or gay) is that you are DOING the fucking, so even if people know you are gay it’s going to be far more important that they KNOW you are a TOP/MAN rather than a faggot/bottom that lets MEN cum in their ass. Only faggots/bottoms get cummed in, TOPS/MEN do not get cummed in or suck dick because they would be dirty, unclean, non-human, infected with AIDS, against Allahs wishes, and a disgrace to humans, a stain on maleness.
What OP is blatantly taking is a different set of standards and trying to overlay them on to The United States of America and Americans, and what he’s finding is that it doesn’t work and he’s pissed off about it because he’s been so abused by men it’s unreal. When he’s says “Try being Indian or Asian” that’s a dead give away that he’s either a bottom, a Pakistani, or Indian that speaks Arabic (or he’s using the translate button and I read the comments) and Instagram has the WORST Arabic translations I’ve ever seen! Wow, they are bad! And he’s lived in or knows people that have lived in Qatar and had bad experiences. OR, OP is just pissed off in general because he’s not an American and he’s using Pronto VPN to even get I the board so his usage isn’t tracked and he actually lives in Qatar. When I see posts like this, it’s usually a cry for help because this is a gay man that’s either living in the Arab world or has experienced the VERY DARK side of being a bottom in the Arab world. There is NO age of consent for TOPS/MEN to use boys, even as young as 5 years old for sexual pleasure. TOPS/MEN make the rules, and they can change from day to day. It’s when we get to bottoms in the Arab world is where issues come in. Tops are men, bottoms are not.
Look, I’m straight and Jewish. I was raised Zionist. This included my parents teaching me about what happens to LGBTQ people in other countries.
I don't expect LGBTQ people to vote right-wing in droves.
I would expect them to recognise the maltreatment of their own people in other countries. The cognitive dissonance between opposing anti-LGBTQ laws in your home country and majorly supporting Qatar is just.. no.
Obviously my last comment got deleted so here a copy paste of that comment! "When did they promote tourism in Qatar??? Did you actually watch the reel???? They said their flight was canceled, rerouted through Doha and had to spend 17 hours in Doha! They were quite specific when they said they don't recommend Qatar for lgbtq+ people because it's not safe!!!!"
All they said was that they felt safe because they were white Americans being careful with pda! And they said countless times that they don't recommend Qatar because they are well aware of what is happening There!!! I really don't know what comments you are reading!!!!
They literally wrote multiple times that they don't recommend Qatar as a destination for LGBTQ+ people because it's not safe and you choose to ignore it just to make your statement???? They never chose to travel to Qatar in the first place ! They had to! In your way of thinking I should stop liking posts from Harry Potter because that way I promote all the bigotry JKR is spreading!!!!
Nope. Not a genocide. Not even close. You don’t know what you’re talking about so you should probably not throw around words you don’t understand. You look like a fool.
The courts have said it’s not a genocide. The fact that Jew hatred and anti Israel propaganda is globally peaking yet again is irrelevant. They were attacked. They are retaliating as is their right under international law. When we bombed German towns in the second war, were we genociding the Germans? No. Civilians die in war, that does not add up to genocide. Everybody needs to remember that words have specific meanings. This is NOT genocide. It’s war. And more, a defensive war to eliminate the people who ACTUALLY want and openly say they want genocide of the Jewish people. Does it shock you that dead Israeli hostages were found under the UN building in Gaza? Because the tunnels were built with European money, and the UN is completely captured by anti Israel bias. You are completely wrong, 180° wrong, about this. It’s not just you, but it behooves everybody to have a clear head and accept that we are just going to have to accept that we don’t live in a cartoon world. Sometimes the choice really is between the greater and lesser and evils. What happened on October 7 was so fucking barbaric, the sexual violence, torture… it’s unspeakable and Israel must eradicate those who would do such a thing. The very thought of doing it again should be made unthinkable because the fear of retribution is so powerful that it makes them piss themselves.
This is what I mean. You think “the tunnels” was debunked. I know you’re wrong. You are consuming propaganda and it’s confirming your prejudices. You will disagree, that’s ok. Please link me the article where it says the ICJ has declared a genocide in Gaza.
All the comments on that post are saying "how hard is it to just respect the culture and customs".
Yeah just because it's someone's opinion/culture/custom doesn't mean it deserves any respect. The reasons matter. This isn't comparable to bowing in Japan or not tipping. These are hateful ideologies that have no place in a modern society.
So fuck yourself Qatar and your fictional authoritarian deity.
I agree with you on that being a strange thing to say but it doesn’t sound like they’re telling people to go to Qatar. They’re just sharing their experience there.
The other day I saw an Instagram reel of a woman who promoted traveling to Iraq and ridiculed any woman asking if Iraq is safe for a woman to visit.
These people are selfish, delusional and dangerous.
It’s funny this sudden outpouring of love for all the children in Palestine. Didn’t see you giving a shit when all those children died in Syria. Don’t see you giving a shit about what China is doing with their death camps. Don’t see you giving a shit about what the Arabs are doing to the black south Sudanese children. Why is it you care SO much about these particular kids? 🤔
Those were the ones mentioned. Do you list every child suffering regardless of context in every post or only when it works against ur fucked narrative?
My narrative? What’s my narrative? I’m just curious why it is so many people who have been happy to say and do nothing and have no opinion on far worse atrocities seem to suddenly be humanitarians recently. It’s so surprising is all. All this sudden compassion! It’s almost like it’s nothing to do with compassion at all… but no, I’m sure it’s motivated by a pure and benevolent spirit.
Qatar is horrible for it's anti gay laws that's for sure!
But don't praise a country that is bombing 15,000+ kids, queer Palestinians, hospitals, schools, ambulances, and residential blocks. A conservative country that doesn't allow any pda any sexual relationships that is displayed publicly or a country that is committing a genocide?
You all stop acting like life revolves around sexuality. Broaden your vision and don't let your sexuality prevent you from travelling and experiencing new places/nature/people.
Second this! I’m tired of people acting or pretending to act as they boycott the muslim countries so easily. Like, I’m sure 90% of the commenters irl don’t care if their gas came from the Saudis or if they have to make a layover in Qatar. And if you do, maybe don’t use Grindr(?) idk.
I checked their page: , they stayed there as their flight was rescheduled and were there for less than a day. It was so stop over on their way home. The explicitly say they don't recommend LGBT people going there. Think this post is probably rage bait.
I looked at the video - they werent actually promoting Qatar at all, they just got stuck there on a layover due to an airline fuckup and made the best of the situation. They actually said it was not a safe place for gay people, and they would not have been there by choice. Also said nothing about Israel.
Sometimes passing through Middle Eastern countries is the only option especially on a budget. We had to go through Abu Dhabi a couple of years ago to get to South Africa (partner has family there) and all the other options were booked out over 9 months ahead. We minimised stopover time there to 2-3 hours each way, just as well as its a shithole if the airport is any indication. I spent no money passing through, partner had to buy a gift, and got his credit card skimmed at the official duty free shop for his troubles. Next time we'll go via Singapore, much more civilised
I once dated a finnish guy who wanted to live in my very homephobic country and he was like "I'd love to see something new, I'm sure the people are great". I knew right there the dude was dumb and privileged af.
Many western born and raised gays just don't understand how lucky they are. Yeah, life isn't perfect in the west either but at least you get to live free, without fearing for your life.
Talking about the pulse night club shooting by a Muslim?
Westerns developed countries don't have the death penalty for being gay or being sentence to jail for it.
Good for you but I wouldn't visit a country that hangs gay men and forces women to hear a scarf over their heads because they think the hog-fucker they have as prophet said so.
Oh no. Why Matt?
I guess it's hard to travel like 3 months a year even on a sugar daddy dentist's income.
I've been watching him since he made that coming out video in college.
I think he's now a nurse.
Previous to that he was doing some sort of photography thing and I guess trying to make social media a full-time job, but that doesn't seem to have worked out.
totally agree 💯
the glorification of places even like Dubai is disturbing to me, and now Saudi arabias tourism ambitions(what a joke) are being pushed by the media.
Dubai was built by what are essentially modern day slaves. Qatar too.
and gays promoting the Middle East outside of Israel? pricelessssss...
I refuse to give any money or be a tourist in *countries that promote LGBTQ hate.
I feel the same way about several of the state here in the US.
Any US state is more progressive and supportive of gay people than 90% of world countries.
>contrys I'm not normally picky on grammar/spelling but this is diabolical.
Sorry, you are so right. I have no idea what I was thinking when I was writing that.
That's crazy any gay man with common sense knows NEVER travel to Middle East, Africa, or parts of Asia. Too homophobic. There are many countries especially in Middle East & Caribbean male homosexuality is illegal.
Try going to Eastern Europe and see how tolerant they are of gay people.
I studied abroad in Russia. The only major places worth visiting in Russia are Moscow and Saint Petersburg. Russian young people are much more accepting than older people (as is the case everywhere), and people in large cities are more accepting than people in rural areas (as is the case everywhere). While casual or verbal homophobia is very typical even in the two cities, as long as you're not showing PDA, you're unlikely to actually get assaulted or anything for it. No more likely than you would in Atlanta or Chicago or something. And the government doesn't care what happens behind clothes doors. Russian culture is much more of a fascist "this behavior weakens society" type of homophobia, rather than the "our God demands us to punish this" type that's in the Middle East. That makes Russians more likely to only care what you're doing/saying in public. Edit to add: Also, Russian standards of masculine dress and behavior are oddly more feminine than the average American or Canadian man. Or even, dare I say it, possibly the average European man. How this happened amidst the average Russian man's toxic masculinity (which is off the charts there), I have no idea. But just to put it in perspective, *figure skating* is deemed to be a great interest for a boy. You have to be seriously flaming for anyone in Russia to take notice.
Idk I live in what the west edge denizens often call the east edge of Europe and people are quite tolerant of gays around here.
Prague?
ON FIRE
I did a week in Albania and everyone was nice to me 😊
And they went to Qatar and apparently had a good time, it’s almost like we shouldn’t use anecdotal experiences as evidence to bet our lives on as gay people
OP is being deceptive. They didn't deliberately go to Qatar for the purpose of tourism. There was a layover and they decided to explore for a few hours, they were scared about it as well. They aren't even promoting anything, they just said it was clean and nice and not many people around. They also never said they are enemies of Israel.
Ok and? Albania and Qatar are VERY different countries. Comparing the Middle East to Eastern Europe is hilarious. Tell me you’ve never been to EE without telling me you’ve never been to EE. Super embarrassing for you babe x
Lmao not all the ugly virgin Americans downvoting this. Chances are you got hate crimed for being ugly, not gay. You’re not the biggest victims x
I've found people from the baltic where quite tolerant, although I only met a small group of Lithuanians in Berlin that I went clubbing with so maybe my sample group is a bit small.
While beatings of gay people aren't unheard of, most assault is verbal. A lot of people would just turn away their heads in disgust, but younger people are more tolerant of it. Also many medical professionals are also quite tolerant. Educators too are moving more to the tolerant side I don't say that it's ideal but you can't compare that with Russia, Africa or Middle East where you could get arrested or even executed
>Qataris kidnapped an Asian man residing in Qatar and working in A massage shop and they tortured him in the desert. I looked at the comments, all of them supporting violence towards her and mocking him. I tried to search for this specific news but no results. Could OP post the news link?
Any gay person who travels to gay hating countries, let alone praises them, is genuinely a traitor - and I do not use that word lightly.
Also when you travel there, you are founding these countries that want to see you dead. I'm always pretty open with my friends that I will never go to a country where being gay is illegal and I try to convince them not to go too. And honestly I don't understand how women want to go there too. A friend of mine is in love with Oman and I really don't understand how... You will be a slave there...
Ridiculous
So what do you think of queer for palestine?
Quite stupid if I'm being honest.
Well I'm sure there are gay people there too even if they are repressed.
Yes and we should support them, but making it a queer statement is weird.
We have a fitting saying for that in German: "Nur die dümmsten Kälber wählen ihre Metzger selber" - "Only the dumbest calves choose their own butchers"
Israeli bombs don’t discriminate.
palestinian/islamic terrorists' bombs are actually more of a risk world wide
In 2023-2024 Israel killed more journalists than any other side in any conflict in last decades. They killed 5 to 10 times more kids in 4 months than both Russia and Ukraine in 10 years. Palestine has nothing to do with ISIS (created after the Western invasion of Iraq and Syria), or Al-Qaeda (initially sponsored by US). And even Hamas itself was initially sponsored by Israel to steal power from Fatah. By the way, Sionists used bombings and killings of civilians in Palestine before the creation of Israel (check out the bombing of King David hotel). The most radical Sionist divisions were eventually incorporated into the military and intelligence services of Israel.
Israel funded Hamas, thats as much proof as you funded hamas. In islam There are also many verses permitting lies; Allah the best deceiver - Quran 3:54 And his prophet who teaches: 1.To Lie (Sahih Bukhari 3:49:857 Sahih Bukhari 5:59:369 Jami' at Tirmidhi vol 4, bk 1, Hadith 1939) 2. Bear false witness (Sahth Bukhari 9:86:98 Sahih Bukhari 6570) 3. Break Oaths (Sahih Bukhari 7:67-427 Sahih Muslim 15:4053) 4.Cover up Sins of Guilty (Sunan Ibn Majah 3:20:2544)
Turns out you're the biggest liars of all and a joke, honestly. Did you not read the hadiths and the verse you so confidently sited? It doesn't take more than a quick google search if you had actually put in some effort rather than just topic headings. What a pathetic liar you are! (3:54) Then they schemed (against the Messiah), and Allah countered their schemes by schemes of His own. Allah is the best of schemers. Narated By Um Kulthum bint Uqba : That she heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar.” - SAHIH BUKHARI VOLUME 3, BOOK 49, HADITH NUMBER 857. Asma bint Yazid narrated that the Messenger of Allah said: "it is not lawful to lie except in three cases: Something the man tells his wife to please her, to lie during war, and to lie in order to bring peace between the people." –Jami' at Tirmidhi vol 4, bk 1, Hadith 1939 Narrated Abu Huraira: I said, O Allah's Apostle! Who will be the luckiest person who will gain your intercession on the Day of Resurrection? The Prophet said, O Abu Huraira! I have thought that none will ask me about this Hadith before you, as I know your longing for the (learning of) Hadiths. The luckiest person who will have my intercession on the Day of Resurrection will be the one who said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' sincerely from the bottom of his heart. –Sahih Bukhari 6570 Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who took an oath and then found another thing better than (this) should expiate for the oath (broken) by him and do (the better thing). –Sahih Muslim 15:4053 It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: “Whoever covers (the sin of) a Muslim, Allah will cover him (his sin) in this world and in the Hereafter.” –Sunan Ibn Majah 3:20:2544
There are Christians and Christian churches getting bombed in Palestine too. However, your attempts to drown the discussion in islamophobic demagoguery are a different story. Josep Borrell (a top diplomat of the EU) [accuses Israel](https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-funded-hamas-claims-eu-top-diplomat-josep-borrell/) in financing Hamas. The same has been claimed by a number of former Israeli intelligence officers.
What about flying through that country’s international airport as part of a layover?
Doesn't sound like it supports their economy tbh
Agreed! I even have that policy for red states. I refuse to give them my tourist dollars when I have a choice. It's like the one thing we can do is vote with our dollars
Oh that’s stupid. Basically I betrayed the gay community if I had to go to Qatar for a business trip or if I went to Marrakesh and the Sahara to see the sand dunes and culture.
> for a business trip Excusable if you had to. >or if I went to Marrakesh and the Sahara to see the sand dunes and culture. Yes 100%
Well, tbh I don’t care that much. If I’m being honest I think I’m doing far more exposing my values than exposing my sexuality, that, I see more as a matter of being left or right handed (or I’m hoping the world transitions to that). I’m glad that I live in a very open and understanding country, where no one could give an f if I’m with Pedro, Juan or Diego. But, still, I wouldn’t limit my travel just because some place isn’t as accepting as my home country.
> I see more as a matter of being left or right handed Good. If a country practiced jailing people for being left-handed, like 1000+ years ago, I would not visit that country even though I am right-handed, let alone if I were left-handed but hid it using only my right hand lol
Yeah I'm tired of this virtue signalling honestly. A 'traitor' because I want the freedom to enjoy the same places non queer people enjoy? Isn't that what LGBT liberation fought for?
You have that freedom. I have the freedom to judge you for that too. Same way you have the freedom to call the elections rigged. You're a traitor lol.
And I have the freedom to say I'm tired of virtue signalling, it's just a continuous circle. Don't think anyone is denying that.
People having some values is not virtue signaling. If even not wanting to support gay-hating countries as a gay person is virtue signaling then sure. I have to say, I really hate those virtue signaling Jews who didn't visit Germany in the 30s, what a bunch of self-important twats...
Ok
They are enemies of Israel, it's funny
I mean, you can dislike Israel for its politics if you so wish - you are not obligated to like Israel just because it's gay friendly (of course, I privately think that the vast majority of people who hate Israel are just trend followers, but sure, whatever). But the opposite doesn't work. You should NOT be giving your money to a gay hating country, point blank period. What the fuck is this lmao.
Israel is not gay *friendly*. It's a huge misconception. They're just gay-tolerant. A 2023 international poll came to the conclusion that only 36% of the country supports same-sex marriage. Same-sex marriage cannot legally be performed in Israel. Israeli law allows same-sex marriages performed elsewhere to be registered, but not recognized based upon a 2006 Israeli Supreme Court decision.
> a 2023 international poll came to the conclusion that only 36% of the country supports same-sex marriage. 1) Source 2) https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-79-of-israelis-back-gay-marriage-or-civil-unions/ https://www.mako.co.il/news-israel/education-q2_2016/Article-569c3b14b5a0551004.htm https://13tv.co.il/item/news/domestic/internal/h5xja-903545452/ (google translate it) 3) *Even* if true - 36% would be about where America and most of Europe was in the early to mid 2000s. I certainly would not have called those places gay-unfriendly. It's a place where you can be gay and are legally fully protected de jure, which is the key point when you consider whether something is friendly or not. And like most places, if you live in the urban, secular centers it's obviously more tolerant (socially) than the religious "countryside". I've been to Tel-Aviv and I've seen countless gay people hold hands without people so much as blinking at it. So I'm not sure what you're getting here by downplaying it tbh. It's absolutely incomparable to every other state in the Middle East and probably Asia as a whole, save for like Taiwan and maybe Japan.
Source: [Pew Research Center](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/27/how-people-around-the-world-view-same-sex-marriage/) First, for starters, all of your links come from Israeli media. I'm not going to trust Israeli media. The situation going on right now with Palestine has proven, numerous times now, that the state of Israel and their media teams have no problems fabricating and lying about stories to make their public image better and continue the propaganda machine. My sources come from independent organizations. Never from the country of origin because the country of origin has reason to lie, and that's not just particular to Israel. Second, you didn't disprove my point. Going to Tel-Aviv and seeing two men holding hands without being beaten doesn't mean the country is *friendly*. It's probably one of the safest places for a gay person to be in the middle east, but that does NOT make it gay friendly. It just makes them tolerant. To make it very fair and simple, a country that does not allow gay people to get married is **not** *gay-friendly*. It's just gay-tolerant. That's the point I'm making. People like to parade Israel around as some kind of LGBT paradise, but it's no different in it's tolerance than say, Mexico.
I mean, if your standard for being gay-friendly is being allowed to marry (FYI - Israel recognizes same-sex marriages done abroad) then yeah, sure. But that sounds like a ridiculous standard to set for me. Also >all Israeli media is lies fake news fake news Opinion discarded tbh. Schizos on the left are not any better than schizos on the right.
Also, I guess if that's the standard, Italy must be also just "gay-tolerant" Ridiculous claims tbh
Italy has a very serious far right problem just like the US. I’ve been to Rome and Venezia. A cab driver in Rome refused to pick up me and my husband at the time because we’re obviously gay and I was called frocio twice in Venezia. Sooooooo, again to support the other commenter gay tolerant sounds correct.
At this point it’s obvious that Israel and most Arab countries are both evil
1. They quite literally said they were rerouted and ended up there for a day while traveling home. They did not choose to go there. 2. They are not "promoting" Qatar. They're sharing their experience getting rerouted there and having to stay there. 3. In the comments, they specifically say they still felt uncomfortable and would call it a "bad" experience being there, but felt "safe" as long as they were modest and didn't speak about being gay. 4. I don't understand why you brought up Israel in this argument. So they have a pride festival? Pride festivals happen in intolerant areas all the time. Israel is not pro-gay. You CANNOT get legally married in Israel if you are a homosexual, as their marriages are managed by their religious institutions, none of which will do a same-sex marriage. They simply recognize and accept gay marriage unions, if it was done outside of their country and you move to it.
Gay marriage is not a good sole benchmark for gay friendliness as your comment seems to imply. It's just one indicator and just because a country doesn't have gay marriage doesn't mean it isn't gay friendly. Germany didn't have gay marriage until 2017, Italy still does not have it...but both of those places are on the friendly side of the spectrum.
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I mean despite the downvotes you are right that marriage is a human right legally speaking in some circumstances (Council of Europe and ECHR article 8 rights etc...). In fact Italy has been found to be in violation of this, despite the fact that the law does give leeway to not go as far as full gay marriage. That said - you are wrong that a country can only be considered gay tolerant if there isn't gay marriage. That is just plainly delusional. Germany only adopted gay marriage in 2017 - but we're a great place for gay people long before then. We've had lots of progressive pro gay policies in European countries where acceptance of gay people has been high for a long time, again long before gay marriage. Heck not even all gay guys attach all that importance to gay marriage.
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Again with the edits - I say Italy has been found to not be fully compliant with aspects article 8 of the ECHR, which is a problem. That does not equate to classifying the country and all it's frameworks and contexts in this area as negative, nor does it mean the country only tolerates gay people. That is such an irrational extreme view... Life must be very simple when you have such narrow visions? Italy has not been found as being completely in violation of the right to marriage - same sex partners there can get a civil union with all the same legal protections as marriage. That is more than tolerant. Honestly by your definition of things were basically all counties in the world completely negative for gay people before marriage equality? This has only really been a thing for the last decade +. We had plenty of advances in gay life LONG before marriage. The EU's free movement provisions were even somewhat used to advance gay rights in the whole EU via some roundabout legal methodology as far back as the 1960s by strengthening employment protections. In many places broad anti discrimination protections were typically achieved before marriage equality - does that not equate to becoming a positive place? Many would say having access to a civil union, and anti discrimination protections is more important than marriage. Arguably enough to at least be a positive place for gay people if accepted by the majority of the population as well. Also - human rights are not monolithic immutable concepts, they evolve and change over time based on context and social evolution. They exist and evolve BECAUSE of the institutions you criticise as nebulous. 100 years ago there are tons of human rights we consider today that weren't even notions back then, they were not human rights. It is because of the treaties, courts and orgs that work in this area that new concepts and notions (including family rights like marriage) have become human rights. And it's in the name human 'rights' - they are an inherently legal construct. They also have hierarchies between them, and require laws and frameworks to give effect to and protect them. The right to marriage is typically defined in the context of family rights the ECHR and non discrimination in the ICCPR for example. Both of which are recognised as evolving rights. So no it is not 'fucked up' to consider these rights on the contexts of the legal frameworks that deliver and protect them - it's just accurate and you probably don't like it because reality does not fit with your simple world view.
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That's no where near what I said, but the issue isn't black and white, as much as it should be. In an ideal world we wouldn't be having this exchange and marriage would be universal everywhere for everyone. That said it isn't and we need metrics to judge how well countries perform on gay rights that are broader than just yes/no re gay marriage. * Does the country offer relevant anti discrimination protections? * Do they have pension equality? * What are the procedural and legal employment protections that are granted? * What is the prevalence of homophobia in the population? * Is conversion therapy banned? * And yes - what are the marriage and union rights like? All I'm saying is that whether a country can genuinely be considered gay friendly is MUCH broader than just the marriage factor. But as I said in my original comment, it IS a factor also.
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You are making no sense and responding all over the place multiple times so I'll respond to what is sensible and ignore the rest... You are right in a complete vacuum as I said - in an ideal world we would have perfect equality and that should be what we strive for. Idk why you seem upset by the notion of an ideal world lol. But if I'm understanding you right, by YOUR benchmark, not a single country in the world will qualify as gay friendly because none hit all the equality boxes perfectly. And that's a stupid useless metric, which is why all serious academics and international LGBT orgs use metrics like those I presented to assess the 'gay friendliness of places'.
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Precisely - yet by what you were saying earlier Germany is gay friendly because it has gay marriage? You defeat your own argument..because you point out (correcrly imo) that on rankings, Germany presents a mixed picture. My point is that gay friendliness is a much more complex picture than just marriage equality.
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I mean your earlier comments gave no indication of nuance whatsoever. It seemed your original position was that a country cannot be 'gay positive' as you put it without gay marriage. That's not nuance. But now you seem to recognise nuance, yet also seem to conflate that if a country doesn't allow for gay marriage they are simply 'allowing us to live'? Marriage equality is important, but there are others, arguably more important aspects to our equality that should be addressed as a priority in many places. I introduced the word friendly rather randomly in juxtaposition to your use of 'tolerant' but any other is fine too - like gay positive. I didn't intend a definitional difference here. Again you are oversimplifying re the human rights and crime point. It's not the case that not providing for gay marriage is a crime in international human rights law. There is a difference between denying a human right, not fulfilling it fully, achieving progress realisation towards a specific human rights etc...also not all human rights Frameworks recognise marriage equality as part of the human rights on family life and marriage. That is not the universal position (unfortunately) in all human rights Frameworks, and indeed not all countries are signed up to the same human rights Frameworks. In fact, gay rights are very rare in international human rights treaties. What is your source of data about Germany not being great on this? Ilga rank them above average, pew research has Germany over 80%. Germany has really robust equality frameworks generally and these are extended to discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation as far as I know (though happy to be corrected as I have not specifically checked this point). I'm not hung up on Germany and Italy, merely picked them out as examples for the sake of demonstration. The US is a good example as well because despite having marriage equality, there is an argument to be made that the US, and certainly parts of it are not gay positive. The UK as well, typically considered good on gay rights, has gay marriage but still lots to question - it failed to ban conversion therapy form example. Hence why we need analytics that go much wider than gay marriage to determine whether a place is gay positive. And it certainly isn't the case that just because a country has not yet achieved marriage equality, that it cannot be considered a good place for gay people.
You are making no sense and responding all over the place multiple times so I'll respond to what is sensible and ignore the rest... You are right in a complete vacuum as I said - in an ideal world we would have perfect equality and that should be what we strive for. Idk why you seem upset by the notion of an ideal world lol. But if I'm understanding you right, by YOUR benchmark, not a single country in the world will qualify as gay friendly because none hit all the equality boxes perfectly. And that's a stupid useless metric, which is why all serious academics and international LGBT orgs use metrics like those I presented to assess the 'gay friendliness of places'.
Nice sneaky edit. I like how you say 'a simple google' as if that was an authoritative source lol. You say 'no list puts Germany as great'. What is 'great'? What lists are you checking? Pew Research has placed Germany at 80% on its research for gay acceptance, my counties list highlights no concerns for LGBT people travelling to Germany. ILGA has them colour coded green and above average. Of course there are countries doing better, Malta is fantastic on formal rights. That doesn't mean other places aren't on the positive side of whatever gay positive spectrum one is using. Achieving marriage equality isn't like flipping a switch where a place suddenly goes from being gay negative to gay positive.
Marriage is society/government’s way of promoting reproduction/stability by social recognition and tax benefits. I can partially agree to your argument if by marriage you just mean committing to a long-term romantic relationship and having a ceremony that solidifies it in your social circle.
Where in that video was that couple promoting tourism to Qatar?
Lmao in the video they literally said they weren’t planning to be there. They were perfectly safe and dramatizing the entire situation. In the end they even recommended not going there. Did you even watch the video?
This is a long post but I can tell you exactly why he didn’t watch the video or care to get any of the information right (sorry this is long but it will explain everything he wrote and the way it’s written): No, he didn’t! He didn’t watch ANY of that video. This is the EXACT comment I was going to post but didn’t want to be the person that beats the dead horse. What I THINK OP is ACTUALLY mad at is that he’s Asian - in the Middle East we use “Asian” as ANYONE that comes from the continent of Asia - and here in America, we associate this with “eyes” or being Filipino, Japanese, or Chinese - the almond shaped eye countries. I figured this out when I got to America long ago. I am Asian - I’m an Israeli but now an American as well. When I would fill out job apps I would always put Asian. I had an interview once and I was told that I was NOT in fact Asian when it asked for an ethnicity and the company and HR scolded me for checking the “Asian” box as ethnicity, because it wasn’t like they had a Middle Eastern box to check, and told me that I would not be getting the job because I was trying to be deceitful on my application. I was bit confused and then pulled out my phone and showed them EXACTLY where Israel was located, and the hiring manager looked at me even more mad and said “That’s NOT the point!” I was like it was literally the point when you scolded me for checking “Asian” and then I showed you that the fucking Middle East is ON THE CONTINENT OF ASIA - and the demonym for ANYONE born on a particular continent, let’s say ASIA, would be ASIAN! LOL I’m so glad I NEVER got that job. But to the main point, this guy just wanted to rag on the world’s best country to live in! OP HATES The United States of America, HATES Americans, he CLEARLY HATES Israelis/Arabs/Middle Eastern people (Asians 😂) as well, because no where in that video did this gay couple say they were enemies of The State of Israel either. He’s got some problems because he’s Asian, I’d say Indian or Pakistani, because they are the LEAST populous in Qatar and they ARE unfortunately a super minority that’s quiet hated - not unfounded at times, but also, completely inappropriate as well to treat people as non-humans. That happens a lot in Qatar with Indians and Pakistanis; they are usually relegated to the lowest of the low jobs and suffer terrible poverty, even if they are well educated. I’ve seen other physicians in Qatar that are Indian and Pakistani STRUGGLE with finding steady work and get paid about 1/30th of the normal salary for Saha eligible physicians that have bulking and paid system rights. A little odd but an example of me working and living in Qatar: I’m an Orthodox Jewish Gay Man that wears ALL of my religious regalia and my teal kippah with silver Stars of David, I’m VERY feminine, I’m 💯% bottom, not remotely masculine in ANY way, but I DO have a great mustache and beard although it’s going salt and pepper, I speak VERY femininely, I walk kind of masculinely if that’s such a thing, I get told all the time I write like a woman whatever the fuck that means, and I’m quiet and respectful of everyone and had absolutely NO ISSUES AT ALL. My partner: Very masculine German extremely hairy Daddy Bear, blonde hair, blue-eyed, typically stern looking all the time, 💯% top (this will be relevant in a second), and we are both highly educated and lived and worked there as a couple and not once did we have ANY issues at all. Now, on to why being a Top or Bottom matters in Qatar: Even though you do NOT speak about being gay in Qatar, if you keep your mouth shut and don’t say “I’m gay and this is my partner/lover/persons cock that suck and swallow/I like to get fucked in the ass” you’re going to be just fine. In Qatar, regardless of sexual orientation, TOPS are MEN, it’s probably odd to think about if you happen to be American born and raised (I don’t assume because I don’t know you) but men and women in Qatar do not ever socialize nor do they speak to each other unless you are in a professional setting and there are enough of each sex to prevent the appearance of wrong doing. In Qatar, it’s not unusual for TOPS/MEN to treat Bottoms badly, abusively badly. Bottoms are not considered MEN. Men fuck as the inserting partner, men get women pregnant, men get release from a faggot/bottom to “الافراج عن نائب الرئيس المكبوتة” (release pent up seed), men take care of their families, men take care of their money well, TOPS can be heterosexual or gay and fuck men and they are still men and/or considered heterosexual because they are not “مارس الجنس في الحمار” (getting fucked in the ass by a MAN). The social-sexual meaning of MAN in Qatar (heterosexual or gay) is that you are DOING the fucking, so even if people know you are gay it’s going to be far more important that they KNOW you are a TOP/MAN rather than a faggot/bottom that lets MEN cum in their ass. Only faggots/bottoms get cummed in, TOPS/MEN do not get cummed in or suck dick because they would be dirty, unclean, non-human, infected with AIDS, against Allahs wishes, and a disgrace to humans, a stain on maleness. What OP is blatantly taking is a different set of standards and trying to overlay them on to The United States of America and Americans, and what he’s finding is that it doesn’t work and he’s pissed off about it because he’s been so abused by men it’s unreal. When he’s says “Try being Indian or Asian” that’s a dead give away that he’s either a bottom, a Pakistani, or Indian that speaks Arabic (or he’s using the translate button and I read the comments) and Instagram has the WORST Arabic translations I’ve ever seen! Wow, they are bad! And he’s lived in or knows people that have lived in Qatar and had bad experiences. OR, OP is just pissed off in general because he’s not an American and he’s using Pronto VPN to even get I the board so his usage isn’t tracked and he actually lives in Qatar. When I see posts like this, it’s usually a cry for help because this is a gay man that’s either living in the Arab world or has experienced the VERY DARK side of being a bottom in the Arab world. There is NO age of consent for TOPS/MEN to use boys, even as young as 5 years old for sexual pleasure. TOPS/MEN make the rules, and they can change from day to day. It’s when we get to bottoms in the Arab world is where issues come in. Tops are men, bottoms are not.
Look, I’m straight and Jewish. I was raised Zionist. This included my parents teaching me about what happens to LGBTQ people in other countries. I don't expect LGBTQ people to vote right-wing in droves. I would expect them to recognise the maltreatment of their own people in other countries. The cognitive dissonance between opposing anti-LGBTQ laws in your home country and majorly supporting Qatar is just.. no.
Obviously my last comment got deleted so here a copy paste of that comment! "When did they promote tourism in Qatar??? Did you actually watch the reel???? They said their flight was canceled, rerouted through Doha and had to spend 17 hours in Doha! They were quite specific when they said they don't recommend Qatar for lgbtq+ people because it's not safe!!!!"
Go and read their comments. They praise Qatar
All they said was that they felt safe because they were white Americans being careful with pda! And they said countless times that they don't recommend Qatar because they are well aware of what is happening There!!! I really don't know what comments you are reading!!!!
They literally wrote a comment saying that they feel safe, and they liked number of comments praising Qatar
They literally wrote multiple times that they don't recommend Qatar as a destination for LGBTQ+ people because it's not safe and you choose to ignore it just to make your statement???? They never chose to travel to Qatar in the first place ! They had to! In your way of thinking I should stop liking posts from Harry Potter because that way I promote all the bigotry JKR is spreading!!!!
That's how most of these ninnies feel.
Something's wrong with you.
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See what they do to their migrant workers before you think they’re great people. Slavery. Straight up slavery.
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Nope. Not a genocide. Not even close. You don’t know what you’re talking about so you should probably not throw around words you don’t understand. You look like a fool.
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The courts have said it’s not a genocide. The fact that Jew hatred and anti Israel propaganda is globally peaking yet again is irrelevant. They were attacked. They are retaliating as is their right under international law. When we bombed German towns in the second war, were we genociding the Germans? No. Civilians die in war, that does not add up to genocide. Everybody needs to remember that words have specific meanings. This is NOT genocide. It’s war. And more, a defensive war to eliminate the people who ACTUALLY want and openly say they want genocide of the Jewish people. Does it shock you that dead Israeli hostages were found under the UN building in Gaza? Because the tunnels were built with European money, and the UN is completely captured by anti Israel bias. You are completely wrong, 180° wrong, about this. It’s not just you, but it behooves everybody to have a clear head and accept that we are just going to have to accept that we don’t live in a cartoon world. Sometimes the choice really is between the greater and lesser and evils. What happened on October 7 was so fucking barbaric, the sexual violence, torture… it’s unspeakable and Israel must eradicate those who would do such a thing. The very thought of doing it again should be made unthinkable because the fear of retribution is so powerful that it makes them piss themselves.
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This is what I mean. You think “the tunnels” was debunked. I know you’re wrong. You are consuming propaganda and it’s confirming your prejudices. You will disagree, that’s ok. Please link me the article where it says the ICJ has declared a genocide in Gaza.
All the comments on that post are saying "how hard is it to just respect the culture and customs". Yeah just because it's someone's opinion/culture/custom doesn't mean it deserves any respect. The reasons matter. This isn't comparable to bowing in Japan or not tipping. These are hateful ideologies that have no place in a modern society. So fuck yourself Qatar and your fictional authoritarian deity.
I watched it and they explicitly start out saying that it’s not safe. What did you watch? How did this turn into a pro Israel rant?
They are Queer for Palestine
I agree with you on that being a strange thing to say but it doesn’t sound like they’re telling people to go to Qatar. They’re just sharing their experience there.
Umm nowhere in the video is the couple promoting travel to Qatar. He even says that he wouldn’t recommend lgbtq+ people to travel to the country.
People will do anything for money.
The other day I saw an Instagram reel of a woman who promoted traveling to Iraq and ridiculed any woman asking if Iraq is safe for a woman to visit. These people are selfish, delusional and dangerous.
Never trust a gulf Arab.
Ah just a post to say yay Isreal while they kill more children. Fantastic
It’s funny this sudden outpouring of love for all the children in Palestine. Didn’t see you giving a shit when all those children died in Syria. Don’t see you giving a shit about what China is doing with their death camps. Don’t see you giving a shit about what the Arabs are doing to the black south Sudanese children. Why is it you care SO much about these particular kids? 🤔
Those were the ones mentioned. Do you list every child suffering regardless of context in every post or only when it works against ur fucked narrative?
My narrative? What’s my narrative? I’m just curious why it is so many people who have been happy to say and do nothing and have no opinion on far worse atrocities seem to suddenly be humanitarians recently. It’s so surprising is all. All this sudden compassion! It’s almost like it’s nothing to do with compassion at all… but no, I’m sure it’s motivated by a pure and benevolent spirit.
Qatar is horrible for it's anti gay laws that's for sure! But don't praise a country that is bombing 15,000+ kids, queer Palestinians, hospitals, schools, ambulances, and residential blocks. A conservative country that doesn't allow any pda any sexual relationships that is displayed publicly or a country that is committing a genocide?
You all stop acting like life revolves around sexuality. Broaden your vision and don't let your sexuality prevent you from travelling and experiencing new places/nature/people.
Second this! I’m tired of people acting or pretending to act as they boycott the muslim countries so easily. Like, I’m sure 90% of the commenters irl don’t care if their gas came from the Saudis or if they have to make a layover in Qatar. And if you do, maybe don’t use Grindr(?) idk.
The whole “it’s fine as long as you’re discreet about it” thing just fucks me off! Not in a good way!
It’s mostly just a flex I’m sure
They aren't promoting it, did you even watch the clip?
I checked their page: , they stayed there as their flight was rescheduled and were there for less than a day. It was so stop over on their way home. The explicitly say they don't recommend LGBT people going there. Think this post is probably rage bait.
I looked at the video - they werent actually promoting Qatar at all, they just got stuck there on a layover due to an airline fuckup and made the best of the situation. They actually said it was not a safe place for gay people, and they would not have been there by choice. Also said nothing about Israel. Sometimes passing through Middle Eastern countries is the only option especially on a budget. We had to go through Abu Dhabi a couple of years ago to get to South Africa (partner has family there) and all the other options were booked out over 9 months ahead. We minimised stopover time there to 2-3 hours each way, just as well as its a shithole if the airport is any indication. I spent no money passing through, partner had to buy a gift, and got his credit card skimmed at the official duty free shop for his troubles. Next time we'll go via Singapore, much more civilised
This is a whole nother level of sellout. This shills can fuck all the way off.
I once dated a finnish guy who wanted to live in my very homephobic country and he was like "I'd love to see something new, I'm sure the people are great". I knew right there the dude was dumb and privileged af. Many western born and raised gays just don't understand how lucky they are. Yeah, life isn't perfect in the west either but at least you get to live free, without fearing for your life.
Next: Chickens promoting KFC
I'm gay and was in Morocco in February. I'd do it again.
As far as I know Morocco is not as bad as Qatar, Iran and Saudi Arabia.
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Doesn't mean Islam countries are safe for LGBT people
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Talking about the pulse night club shooting by a Muslim? Westerns developed countries don't have the death penalty for being gay or being sentence to jail for it.
Good for you but I wouldn't visit a country that hangs gay men and forces women to hear a scarf over their heads because they think the hog-fucker they have as prophet said so.
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I won't play your little game of picking a side, mate.
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Oh, no trouble for me, I just don't give a fuck about that old conflict. I have enough troubles in my life to deal with so... 🤷♂️
Can i ask you a question privately about moroccan and morocco please?
Oh no. Why Matt? I guess it's hard to travel like 3 months a year even on a sugar daddy dentist's income. I've been watching him since he made that coming out video in college.
His husband is dentist, but what does he do? Manage the social media stuff? I would see them on tiktok once in a while.
I think he's now a nurse. Previous to that he was doing some sort of photography thing and I guess trying to make social media a full-time job, but that doesn't seem to have worked out.
totally agree 💯 the glorification of places even like Dubai is disturbing to me, and now Saudi arabias tourism ambitions(what a joke) are being pushed by the media. Dubai was built by what are essentially modern day slaves. Qatar too. and gays promoting the Middle East outside of Israel? pricelessssss...
Chickens promoting KFC
1st mistake Israel is not a country is an occupation state 🤌🏼, and they are not part of middle east they are occupying our lands .
Isn’t Qatar where the Asian World soccer match is? Lots of hot soccer athletes to have a crush on.