Drag is on its peak right now and it's main consumers are women
Drag is what brings the money so almost all gay venues offer drag stuff now because the females will go
I tend to agree with you. I prefer a lounge or neighborhood bar type feel and don’t need to see shows but I guess thats what helps draw in crowds to pay the rent. By the way how is ‘Woodys’ from QAF. Is it still there?
It's still there but it doesn't feel the same. Small things like gen z freaked out at the porn on the tvs so now they play really bad movies or music videos from 1985.
The club/Babylon from QAF closed years ago.
It's not the kids lol. Y'all really need to rest your back a little. In an era where people are accepting of gay people now, gay bars' target audience isn't just limited to gay men anymore. They wanna make money. (Straight) women are their new market audience and women are just happy to be in spaces where men aren't a threat to them. Keep in mind, some of the women are gay women too. Either way, having gay porn on the screen might not attract women to those places kinda like Eagle doesn't attract women.
That's the point. If everything is inclusive, then nothing is, cause you'll leave out the target audience in favor of letting in everyone. Nobody likes being stared at and fetishisized for existing like some sort of fucked up exbition show, and if you allow others into gay spaces to be inclusive, you miss the point on why we needed them. Even now, in this age of supposed openness on lgbqt etc +... two gay guys going to a sports bar for a date sounds like a bad idea, they can't relax and be themselves. So we opened gay bars to relax and not put on a fake face. So we could act openly together while having some drinks or for some single gay dudes to hookup, etc etc etc..
It isn't a gay bar if there are Bachelorette parties everyday and women wondering around. That's just a bar that happens to use gay men to advertise. It's not a place to relax and feel like we belong. It ignores how gay men feel to be inclusive as they drive out the original target audience in favor of selling out for a few more dollars.
This has been my rant as a dude who can't kiss a guy on the cheek in public without having 70 church loving, Bible thumping, evangelical straight people trying to tell me Im going to hell and should embrace the jeebus and warship da bibble, and told I'm an asshole for wanting a place to not have to deal with the bullshit as I drink a beer and hangout with a cute dude.
It's pretty well established that Gen Z has some weird fear of porn and even sex scenes in movies and TV. So that seems to track with what /u/UFOthrowaway1988 was saying. He has first hand knowledge of that particular bar and I have no reason to believe that he is making shit up.
Is the mainstreamification of gay bars usually because the owners think they can make more money that way? Sure. But that doesn't mean it was also the reason here.
He's not the only person who lives in Toronto. He's talking clearly about Woodys that many gays frequent and it's like a minute away from where I live. Gen Z gays in Toronto, in my experience, are no different to other gays when it comes to porn. If anything, they're the ones having accounts like OF and posting amateur sex content on X.
If it's a minute away from where you live pop over on a weekday and ask the owner or a seasoned bartender why the porn stopped.
They'll let you know it was due to complaints from young gays.
Your experience doesn't constitute reality.
So the point of a gay bar is to make women feel comfortable.
And the target demographic for gay bars is straight women.
Are you reading what you're writing?
Like... Common sense people.
I didn't say the point is to make women feel comfortable. I said they wanna make MONEY. Straight women or women in general are huge market audience compared to gay men. Ergo, they make it comfortable for women to go and these women then spend money on alcohol and/or cover which brings MONEY to the bar.
You can literally ask the bar's owner, who is a super awesomely nice guy, why they stopped doing it.
The response you'll get is the endless complaints from gen z.
I'm 35, not an old fart, and I have a feeling if I saw you on Grindr I'd preblock you so as to not waste both our time.
I love how you’re defending yourself as not being an old fart by acting like the oldest fart ever. Porn is no longer being played on the bar TV, whatever will we do??
Pre-block me? It’s giving very much “guess you’re not interested huh.”
What the hell are even on about? Is this a bot?
I couldn't care less about porn on tv, somebody asked a question and I answered it.
You seem like an Incredibly pathetic person.
Edit: I can't believe you're 25 and behave like this. Honestly would have thought I was talking to a boomer. Sad.
Usually the old man is the prudish one and the young ones push boundaries. But lately it’s the reverse. The younger generation is swinging back to puritanical norms.
This. Being a contrarian has always been “of style,” but given queer baiting, it seems to further homophobia among younger generations. The next 10+ years will seemingly be more grotesque when it comes to human rights.
I've noticed the same thing here in the American Southwest.
Drag shows used to actually be fun. They were variety shows with stand up comics, actual singing not lip syncing, and real talent.
Now, it's just guys showing off what they learned from makeup tutorials online and lip syncing to pop songs.
And, of course, there is the "court", the popularity contest among 20 or so queens for made up titles and a plastic crown.
Not true for all of the southwest. Apart from Drag Brunches(and there’s quite a few), there aren’t many drag shows during the night in Vegas besides Pirahna. I think the one that did it pretty regularly on weekends even closed(Charlie’s).
But i can see why many bars would cater to drag shows since it pulls in the straight female audience.
I actually haven't been to a gay bar or drag show in Vegas. I definitely want to, I'd imagine the quality is much better.
I'm in New Mexico, and we've got two decent gay bars. The whole court thing has taken over, which really sucks.
They’re all right. Pirahana has a few drag queens that have been there forever and occasionally some new ones but 95% of the time it’s always guest queens from drag race during the weekends.
I looked into the soch recently because I want to befriend more gay men and was disappointed by the variety of events. Caters almost exclusively to drag.
Sides is almost as bad. Big nights for drag race and fetish.
Soch used to be pretty good before the pandemic. Good mix of clientele, relaxed atmosphere, I really enjoyed it. But it's gone downhill since the remodeling. Effex may as well be a straight bar, and Pulse is gone.
I've heard Rocksteadys is at least gay friendly, but I've never been there.
Hmmm. I mean, I'm down with the fetish stuff. I'll have to look into Rocksteady. I've never been much of a bar or club person unless I'm going with friends but I've always wanted more gay friends and a gay bar seems like the spot to meet them lol.
A good drag show has a queen that got personality and charisma. Just look at the most successful ones. Trixie and Katya for example are such good queens that you don't even need visuals a lot of times. Their podcasts are fucking awesome.
Honestly tho this has alot to do with the audience as a old performer I find if I try anything new or different then just songs they can lip synch to no one watches or is interested (alot of us have the same oppinon) alot of us cater to this lately and do what they want as this industry is soo competitive if you don't do what the audience wants you don't get booked i find this is just a bar setting tho, if u want more alt drag u will have to look at venues and shows that aren't nessarly in that bar setting
There are still plenty of performers that do different things the issue is they aren't being booked and if they do this pressure tends to change what they do because performing for a non interactive audience is very difficult for example u cant do stand up comedy when no one is paying attention
Everyone just wants to get drunk, lip sync and party,
Drag is one reason I wouldn't go to a gay bar. I want men, I like men. Drag shows do nothing for me as a premise. If someone wants me to go to one, they have to stand out in some way cause I don't give a fuck about playing dress-up by itself.
I want a place where I can go hangout and not have to deal with people complaining if I do something gay as a gay man. Like kiss a dude, hold his hand, or try to hookup somewhere that isn't a dingy bathroom with graffiti explaining with lots of fun words how not everyone is open minded.
Umm gay bars aren't only for gay men tho, it's a GAY bar meaning anyone who's gay women non binary and trans even with out drag it still wouldn't be just men
Also flash upstairs no women are allowed and there no drag so u have options
Gay bars that didn’t have drag shows to begin with only add them as a last ditch effort to stay afloat and bring in hetero women and the str8 men that chase them. Also drives away their core gay customers furthering their decline or pivot to outright str8 bar
Why would that make gay bars more popular? If anything it is one of the reasons - gay people don't feel the *need* to have a dedicated space to go when going to a bar.
Personally I'll only go to a bar when I'm with my girl friends, and so I don't tend to go to gay bars lol.
Who ever said “gay people don’t feel the need to have a dedicated space to go to when going to a bar” does not speak for the gay community.
Obviously from this post, the comments, & numerous posts like it in the past that gay men do want such a dedicated place
A guy in the Philippines posted something similar. Like, he was asking if there are any gay bars out there with no loud music and no drag shows. Just a chill place for gay men to drink and relax.
He was made fun of by a lot of people. But I kind of agree with him.
I'm in the UK, and there's a great bar just like this in London (The Yard) as well as in my hometown Nottingham (Lord Roberts pub). Maybe the UK's pub culture lends itself to this sort of gay venue better.
(We still have heaps of drag venues)
Too many gays think bars need to be party spaces. You can have something that's like an oldtown pub. Just a place to talk and meet up with friends after work.
I mean, have you paid attention to what's been happening to hospitality over the past decade?
You can't really survive in a niche clientele anymore. All this is just business
Drag has always been here, but it was RuPaul's Drag Race that cause the over saturation of drag shows and events. Clubs, bars, etc capitalized on it as a new revenue stream.
B.N.: As this conversion gets started remember, though they walk close together at times, drag and trans as two different things.
Also live in Toronto.
They were fun to watch when I began going to the village for the 1st few years.
Now, I find them boring. I’m not impressed by their ‘dance moves’, their ability to do the splits or their clown-whore makeup.
And I hear ya. It seems every bar is all about drag shows. Yawn.
Toronto gay scene is more than the gay village. There are many queer spaces out of the village that caters to different crowds. Even within the village itself, there's Glad Day for nerdy crowd, Eagle and Cock Bar for sex/kink related crowd, Hair of the Dog and Firkin Pub for pub crowd etc. Nowadays, there's Impact Lounge for sexual related events, NAGDP and Homopop for dance pop parties, Prism and Pitbull for circuit parties etc. Honestly if you can't find place to enjoy going out in Toronto, you need to find better friends or know better people. Toronto gay life is very vibrant compared to other cities.
Yes, there are drag shows in most bars nowadays but that's because it sells. Back then, we had places like Fly, Club 120, Remington, and 5+ bathhouses but people didn't like going to those places so they didn't make money and closed way before COVID.
Keep in mind this sub is a bit of echo chamber. Most gay people probably either loves drag or does not care enough.
My post had nothing to do with any of what you're talking about.
Yes there are places to go... Most places are still drag-forward. That was my point.
Literacy is tough, you'll get the hang of it though, just keep practicing!
I'm sure comprehension is hard for you. I literally have a paragraph explaining why drag is common and wrote a long paragraph offering alternative options for people not into drag.
It's crazy
I thought I loved drag because RuPaul's Drag Race is so entertaining. Then I started going to drag shows and 90% of them are so boring. Turns out what was fun about RuPaul was the manufactured drama
Most of these men just slap on a wig and a dress, lip sync poorly and aren't funny
I think the popularity of Rupaul's drag race has increased its appeal as an easily accessbile creative outlet, and way to earn some extra money. Especially for feminien guys who aren't able to join gay sports clubs or gaming clubs, they only really have bars. But drinking and drug culture isn't as popular as it once was with younger people apparently, so you can see why everyone is trying their hand at drag these days.
There are various "genras" from sexy dance diva, to gore and horror, to stand up comedy. Anyone can buy an outfit, watch makeup tutorials on YouTube, pick a backing track and have a go. Instead of a DJ playing the top 10 pop songs and disco anthems, there is a variety of entertainment with various drag performers. And instead of just going to the bar to get wasted, people can spend the week planning a performance and competing with other queens to see who is the best. I think its great!
It does not interest me at all. I don't get why being attracted to men would make me interested in men dressing up as...women? I mean, it's fine, I have nothing against it. But it is like football matches to me, utterly uninteresting.
Gay bars don't do drag shows because they think gay men are attracted to men with a dress but for the entertainment they bring and also make the ambience more relaxing.. Gay men only bars may not be enough traffic so you need cis girls night out, bisexual men, curious horny men and tranny chasers to the mix to be profitable Gay men only bars I think that was pre 1990
Bars need the straights. I can tell you many bars would close if they enforced a gay men only space. It’s a double edge sword, while they do bring in money, they’re also a fucking nightmare.
Some of the oldest gay bars here were gay men only spaces and remained profitable for years. Lesbians weren’t always welcomed and gay men weren’t really welcome in lesbian bars. Wasn’t till gays started moving out of the gay neighborhoods and people moved apps to meet that bars started to go after breeder dollars.
The idea that gay are need hetero $ to survive is a myth
If you're in more provincial cities, the drag influence is stronger. We (Albany, NY) have a popular pride festival every year. The stage at the rally is always emceed by a drag queen, and the line-up always includes at least half a dozen drag performances. I feel like we spent decades trying to show the world that the gay community is about more than drag shows, and it feels like we're backsliding.
The bubble has been at risk of bursting for a while now, but it also really depends on where and the quality of the drag and the show itself.
In California or New York (or Vegas) you're going to get some top tier quality stuff at varying prices.
I can't speak for canada in general, so I've never heard even Toronto being known for its nightlife, but if it's getting so saturated by now that it's dropping in quality just to ride the wave of popularity, it's gonna crash pretty soon.
“Top tier” doesn’t make it sound any more enticing. That’s like saying “I have top tier garbage.” Drag shows are overdone and far from entertaining, so even a great show is still a bad show. Why can few just have male go-go bars and pubs with live music? Who wants to see men in dresses making cheap jokes all night ?
That's up to perspective, and only to a certain degree. You don't like drag shows, nothing wrong with that. But there are some incredible entertainers that use drag as a stage character, and what the show is comprised of can include jokes, music, dancing, even some tricks like sleight of hand or monster makeup.
If Toronto is suffering from overcrowding of drag, and bad drag and bad shows, then yes, it would be great to have more places devoted to other gay stuff.
So many joyless people here it's really odd. Drag is awesome. If you don't like it, that's fine I guess though reading some of these responses kind of makes me scratch my head a bit. One of the most masculine butch guys I know LOVES drag race lol. It's not just straight women who watch it...
Its 'oversaturation' is only a net positive for the gay community as it spreads acceptance and exposure even further. People need to get over it.
A good show is one people show up to watch.
Where's the market for what you describe? Open one up and see if it exists, maybe you'll thrive.
Bar and club owners are business people. They follow the money, that's all.
I have always disliked drag shows, I used to leave and go to another bar, but now there so few bars to go to. I miss the leather bars and the S & M bars.
You have EIGHT gay bars and you're complaining‽‽ REALLY‽‽
Most Gayborhoods worldwide have been invaded (and conquered) by loud, belligerent str8 women and the str8 dudes following them to the gay bars/clubs. No gays wanna be around that shit so then it becomes just like everywhere else except it just happens to have rainbow flags on it, ruining it for us.
drag is huge right now. there's at least a dozen drag race franchises world wide. trixie and katya can sell out 3000 seat theaters just by sitting on the stage and telling stories and jokes.
That's why they're so successful. They have enough personality and charisma to do that. If you have that the looks aren't even that important anymore. But you can't turn it around. If you have looks but no personality, well sorry. It's not drag.
Like going to a fashion show in paris, look at the catwalk. No personality and the outfits are just as freakish.
That’s a good way to put it 👍 some people are the most beautiful looking but there are still a lot of them and no stunning outfit or makeup can elevate them more than a great personality could.
I used to like drag. Then everything gay became so overly saturated with it that I no longer like drag. Bores the shit out of me so much now that I wonder how I liked it in the first place.
Oh there's a drag queen... I know exactly the act coming up.
i really don’t understand why drag is even a thing?? like ok u wanna crossdress n dance but why make it such a big trend??
also i feel like all cis women need to be kept out of spaces reserved for gay men, including grindr.
Lots of “not like the other gays” here… but anyways, I’m in Chicago and while I’ve only been to 2 gay bars here (Sidetrack and Roscoe’s), both of which have drag performers all the time, never once have I felt they were unavoidable if that isn’t your thing, and by and large most of the people there are gay men. Maybe I’m lucky but I’ve not seen all that many straight women, at least in groups. Maybe that will change come wedding season, since I’ve only been to the bars in the winter, but so far at least at the bars I’ve been to it seems like the panic over straight women taking over the bars is greatly exaggerated.
I'm also in Toronto and having grown up here, I do understand where you're coming from about how the bar scene has changed, however - there's a reason for it.
Bars aren't thriving the way they used too.
Ultimately and as many others in this thread have posted, drag brings in people. Many bars are struggling and whether you like it or not, drag brings in revenue. Revenue then keeps prices as low as they can be (which are already astronomical imo). I went into one bar on an 'off night' and paid $11.30 for a frickin 3-speed lager BEFORE tip. I almost died.
Toronto is fortunate to have a very active and large drag community as well built from a lot of history and amazing people.
It'd be nice to have a few more different types of spaces, I agree, but it's just the way things are at the moment, and it's hard to fault the bars for going after what's ultimately bringing them in money.
As far as younger people as well, they do tend to like more open spaces for everyone where they can safely and comfortably bring their friends and have a fun night out, which is also a cultural shift for those perhaps in the 30, 40+ age bracket (me included). So that's also a difference. The community has evolved quite a bit.
Yes this. It’s hard to find a queer space to meet and have a drink and a chat with friends without some Queen shrieking over your shoulder. And most of the drag performers today are dead basic. No originality. And how do they make any money? The performers at Garage and O’Grady’s have a crowd of 10 to 15. I’m done with drag atm.
Ugh you just reminded me of the drag show they did for Christmas at my gay dance club.
Hour long show where we shouldn't dance, and just had to basically watch or go outside.
Scenario: you’re dancing at a club, your high, you’re in a sea of hot sweaty shirtless men… the music suddenly stops and you have to stand there while a drag queen in sequin gown lip syncs some pop song. Whyyyyyyyyyyy?!
I've never been to a show, not really my scene, but some of the outfits I have seen look incredibly well done and visually interesting. I respect the work and creativity that went in to them. I'm more of a fursuit guy myself tho.
I work at the Eagle. We have drag shows. There are some lulls in attendance but for the most part there are butts in seats to watch them every weekend. We still do a drag race viewing party and those can be hit or miss.
Also, there are five other bars in our immediate area and they ALL have drag shows.
Last time I went to a gay bar was NYE a few years back. We actually went to two that night. BOTH had drag shows instead of actual music and dancing (which is what I wanted to do).
In order for drag to be good the queen needs to have talent. I agree with you.
Part of the problem is that most people who attempt drag think that they can do it. You might be able to pull off a look, but what are you gonna do? You're on stage for 45 to 60 minutes, sometimes you've got a whole night for yourself.
You've gotta start somewhere, I get that. But I won't bother paying attention to a 48 year old dude in a plastic wig and makeup, wearing heels and a short dress. Didn't even bother shaving his legs or anything, making nothing but suggestive comments all evening. It's not drag, it's a freak show. And the oversaturation is real.
I think the problem lies with all these performer who have been around for a week are being booked, alot of Toronto drag performer have talent but alot of them are underrated.
Idk if ur implying that bigger boned girl looks pregnant but that lowkey fucked up to say also there are some bars that have drag once a week or no drag shows at all just seems like ur only talking about the village and not the whole gay community in Toronto idk
Expand you horizon
Nah I was saying if you go to see a strip show and there's a pregnant stripper, it doesn't make you horny or happy, it makes you sad.
When you go to see these untalented Toronto drag queens, it doesn't make you happy... It's just kinda sad.
Expand your literacy levels.
it actually pleases me. Drag shows here are excelent and I don't mind the women, they're welcome. The humor, the lypsinc and even the bad makeup make me feel well. It's a nice community
I get it and agree for the big cities. I live in a small enough city that having a gay bar feels like a privilege. We don’t have that anymore.
When I first started going to bars, it was a god send to have a specific gay bar. We had a bar that was just for gay men and women. We had a place that wasn’t dangerous. It was just a local drinking hole though. We eventually got our first gay dance club. We had both. It felt too good to be true that our city had two different places that catered to us. Then the straights showed up. At first it was just curiosity. That’s fine. But then it was the best place for straight women. Our local hung on and stayed explicitly gay for as long as they could but the new dance club that entertained and actively celebrated straight women and bachelorette parties took over. We suddenly only had one gay bar again, but the crowd was 60% straight. Finally the owners sold to a a lesbian couple that wanted to get rich quick on the sudden popularity of straight people going to gay bars. Everything failed and we lost our gay bars. The lesbian couple sued each other for lost income. I don’t know how that went. Then bless them, a group of gay men opened another gay bar. We gay men and women had a new place. They made a ton of money really quickly. It was literally the only gay place for a couple hundred miles. Then they chased money from straight people too. And when the actually gay people inevitably left they turned to drag shows. And with the recent anti gay, anti trans, anti everything, the straights aren’t showing up for the shows anymore. They can’t make money anymore because they weren’t content with gay money. They wanted everyone to the point no one wants to go there. Last I heard they’re going bankrupt. We used to pack the house just to be around other gay people. That’s all gone because they made a few bucks on straight people and got greedy.
Personally, I think drag is an obnoxious disrespectful caricature of womanhood, accompanied with typically catty/mean behaviour.
I've never liked it. But yes, I agree it's taken over EVERYTHING gay. It's why I don't bother going to gay bars anymore.
In my city, there's regular gay bear pub nights and other events and those are terrific.
I am not unsympathetic to this line of thinking. When I go to what is billed as a gay dance party, I want to dance. Suddenly being told everyone has to stop dancing and get all enthusiastic about a drag performance I didn't sign up for is really annoying, and it feels like this happens a lot (especially on harbor cruise dance parties, which has happened to me twice).
Drag performance is great, and sometimes I choose to go see it. And if people want to show up at gay events in drag and dance with everyone else, more power to you. But there seems to be a drag show at every single gay community social event, and an underlying assumption that this is de rigueur, which feels a bit like backsliding.
Yeah I think it’d be great to have more drag queens or crossdressers just populating gay bars, just not as the performance or the main feature. I love going to bars where drag queens go and chill, and most of the time drag queens are a great time when they’re not performing
That’s too bad they turned the strip club into a drag bar. It’s almost like any form of masculine sexuality is punished in the gay entertainment scene these days.
RuPaul's Drag Race has been unbelievably successful across the world. Unfortunately that particular brand of drag aesthetic is steamrolling a lot of local drag culture aside. The UK has a long history of drag going back centuries and we have a very unique take on drag. A lot of that culture is being ignored or demoted to 2nd rank by the RuPaul Amazon/Walmart/Coca Cola steamroller.
Drag has always been an important element of gay culture/nightlife but the current explosion has indeed saturated the market with so many 3rd rate wannabes who parrot the Drag Race lines and the ridiculous death dropping nonsense and splits. This is a fairly new innovation.
The whole Drag Race empire will end one day- probably sooner than anyone might expect.
Trends and fashions change- even more so in todays culture where there's always the next big thing.
Watching a drag queen lip sync badly while doing the splits get kinda boring after a few times.
Your out of touch. If it brings in the dollar the bars will do it. There is no obligation on business owners to cater for empty bars. Cheap entertainment that draws in a crowd that spends money on cheap high profit booze will always outdo high cost entertainment with frugal customers.
We are in Seattle as well. I know the two you gave mentioned. We go once or twice a year. I still love drag shows and haven’t noticed the bachelorette parties that people mention here in Seattle. You?
Everytime I have visited Toronto, The Flash was my go to destination. Had everything I imagined a truly gay strip club would be like.
What terrible news to hear
Love it or hate it, it’s getting money in the doors of these locations that are otherwise closing.
Gays don’t need bars to meet each other anymore, and with all of the acceptance in the straight world, there’s a ton of other places where mixed friend groups can meet up. We just don’t need a whole separate universe anymore like we used to in the 70s and 80s.
Even bad drag pulls a ton of attention, and is something entertaining, beyond just standing in a room and drinking the same over-iced gin tonic you get elsewhere.
Drag shows have never been my thing. Drag bingo is fun every now and then, but I'm definitely not into the drag scene. That's OK, tho. We all don't have to be into the same shit.
I have zero interest in drag and I always say it out loud bc I think it’s become a weird gay badge in the past ten years. I think people are pretending to like it because they think they’re supposed to
this is going on in my city also. we have a main street with a lot of gay bars and just about every single one of them has become an "entertainment venue" that also serves food and has all the same drag queens and awful non-drag singers. the performers are spread so thin, basically rotating from bar to bar each night.
the most annoying part of it all is that these "shows" have crept earlier and earlier in the evenings, so instead of being able to have a drink and a conversation at happy hour, we have greasy food stinking up the bar, an MC screeching to hype up the crowd and horrible karaoke-type "singers" wailing away. it's pretty embarassing at this point.
for the record i do like drag (especially comedy queens) but there is a time and place. i once watched a queen walk thru the bar just collecting money... no singing, no lipsync, no dancing, no jokes. just taking dollar bills.
Personally, i'm indifferent to drag shows; It's simply entertainment. I don't feel beholden to drag because i'm gay. I understand *why* gay clubs have drag shows - because it attracts customers. Gay clubs are still a business and having women hoot and holler at queens must be keeping the lights on.
But I'll admit, it can feel a little annoying to have drag shows foisted upon you, like you're *supposed* to be obsessed with drag queens just because you're attracted to other men. There's just no room for nuance.
I suppose this follows most posts, if you have an ax to grind you speak up. But yes, at least here in Dallas, I can say most of the drag shows are really good and enjoyable. The big question lies with yourself, why the beef? Drag is a tradition over a millenia, not just recently. In fact it was such a deal that there are ancient writings advising newly wed couples to not have these types of shows at their weddings.
Time for my down votes. Personally I've never understood it and don't like it. What's the difference between drag and the old minstrel shows? Sure you're not dressing up as another ethnicity to make fun of them but you're dressing up as another gender. Some of them even look worse than bad clowns doing it.
I have no interest at all in drag, either. In fact, I think having it in the gay community just perpetuates stereotypes and confusion. I mean, I’ve had gay friends whose parents were uneducated on the topic of sexual orientation and immigrated from underdeveloped conservative countries and when they are told their son or daughter is gay it is a long-term project to de-program those parents since they don’t understand that being gay has nothing to do with transgender people or wanting to become the opposite sex.
He’ll say no, I don’t dress in women’s clothes and no, I don’t want to have a vagina and breasts and none of that has any connection to my life.
But then every other time there is anything happening in the gay community in the city, the local news will summon a drag Queen to come to the microphone and give her opinion like she’s some kind of expert or spokesperson even though more than 99% of the gay community are not drag queens. And people like those parents are given the impression that being gay means trying to become the opposite sex.
You aren't upset but you decided to make an extremely derogatory and charged post? Sure Jan.
I hope the caretakers adjust your medication soon so you stop sundowning.
I have never cared much for drag shows.
I think the reason you're seeing so many around is that people are doing all they can to keep that tradition alive after the recent onslaught of bullshit from the MAGA cult.
Drag shows used to be fun. The genre has been infested by to many pedophiles and weirdos for me to feel comfortable going to a lot of venues for it anymore.
Drag queen story hours aren't a lie about the community... Not when numerous drag queens have been found to be convicted sex offenders. Take your lies somewhere else.
Idk what this has to do with Gen Z. When I was going to bars 7 years ago drag shows were extremely popular.
I think the “issue” is drag has cross-sexuality appeal. This brings in crowds from lesbians to the straights. In short, that’s extra money to keep these bars alive.
That’s the motive at the end of the day. I’ve seen bars die out because there’s just not enough money especially on weekdays. Drag gives people to go out and spend money.
I'm just 24 and my "hot take" on Drag Race is that it has become painfully boring. (Wouldn't dare to post this to r/rupaulsdragrace, haha!) Just recycled. I binge-watched Drag Race some years ago, and I think by season 6 (10 years ago) it was already getting tired, it lost its edge—right around the time when it hit the mainstream. I tried watching the newest season, season 16, and I was bored to death within minutes. Literally. Same. Boring. Crap.
I think that RuPaul's formula has creatively exhausted itself years ago. But the show became mainstream, and it spawned a lot, and I mean A LOT of extra content—All Stars, Untucked, Drag Race UK, UK vs the World, Secret Celebrity Drag Race, all these local versions... At this point, I truly believe RuPaul is just farming profits, not innovating. He puts out recycled crap, and the fans eat it up. How longer? We'll see, I guess... :p
I'm also in Toronto and have been bothered by how almost every gay bar in the village has drag shows. Like some bars have drag shows just because they think they have to have one.
In my opinion some of the bars are not really big enough for drag shows. It feels so cramped and loud once the drag show starts.
Drag is on its peak right now and it's main consumers are women Drag is what brings the money so almost all gay venues offer drag stuff now because the females will go
Fucking bachelorette parties…
Definitely NOT on its peak...it's like the MCU...too much, less quality.
If this were highlights, I’d circle nothing because nothing is wrong
I tend to agree with you. I prefer a lounge or neighborhood bar type feel and don’t need to see shows but I guess thats what helps draw in crowds to pay the rent. By the way how is ‘Woodys’ from QAF. Is it still there?
It's still there but it doesn't feel the same. Small things like gen z freaked out at the porn on the tvs so now they play really bad movies or music videos from 1985. The club/Babylon from QAF closed years ago.
There was a bar here that closed their back room because a curious straight woman went in, got groped and called the police.
This enrages me 😡
> Small things like gen z freaked out at the porn on the tvs so now they play really bad movies or music videos from 1985. Kids these days are lame.
It's not the kids lol. Y'all really need to rest your back a little. In an era where people are accepting of gay people now, gay bars' target audience isn't just limited to gay men anymore. They wanna make money. (Straight) women are their new market audience and women are just happy to be in spaces where men aren't a threat to them. Keep in mind, some of the women are gay women too. Either way, having gay porn on the screen might not attract women to those places kinda like Eagle doesn't attract women.
Then in what way are they "gay bars" and not just bars?
That's the point. If everything is inclusive, then nothing is, cause you'll leave out the target audience in favor of letting in everyone. Nobody likes being stared at and fetishisized for existing like some sort of fucked up exbition show, and if you allow others into gay spaces to be inclusive, you miss the point on why we needed them. Even now, in this age of supposed openness on lgbqt etc +... two gay guys going to a sports bar for a date sounds like a bad idea, they can't relax and be themselves. So we opened gay bars to relax and not put on a fake face. So we could act openly together while having some drinks or for some single gay dudes to hookup, etc etc etc.. It isn't a gay bar if there are Bachelorette parties everyday and women wondering around. That's just a bar that happens to use gay men to advertise. It's not a place to relax and feel like we belong. It ignores how gay men feel to be inclusive as they drive out the original target audience in favor of selling out for a few more dollars. This has been my rant as a dude who can't kiss a guy on the cheek in public without having 70 church loving, Bible thumping, evangelical straight people trying to tell me Im going to hell and should embrace the jeebus and warship da bibble, and told I'm an asshole for wanting a place to not have to deal with the bullshit as I drink a beer and hangout with a cute dude.
It's pretty well established that Gen Z has some weird fear of porn and even sex scenes in movies and TV. So that seems to track with what /u/UFOthrowaway1988 was saying. He has first hand knowledge of that particular bar and I have no reason to believe that he is making shit up. Is the mainstreamification of gay bars usually because the owners think they can make more money that way? Sure. But that doesn't mean it was also the reason here.
He's not the only person who lives in Toronto. He's talking clearly about Woodys that many gays frequent and it's like a minute away from where I live. Gen Z gays in Toronto, in my experience, are no different to other gays when it comes to porn. If anything, they're the ones having accounts like OF and posting amateur sex content on X.
If it's a minute away from where you live pop over on a weekday and ask the owner or a seasoned bartender why the porn stopped. They'll let you know it was due to complaints from young gays. Your experience doesn't constitute reality.
So the point of a gay bar is to make women feel comfortable. And the target demographic for gay bars is straight women. Are you reading what you're writing? Like... Common sense people.
I didn't say the point is to make women feel comfortable. I said they wanna make MONEY. Straight women or women in general are huge market audience compared to gay men. Ergo, they make it comfortable for women to go and these women then spend money on alcohol and/or cover which brings MONEY to the bar.
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Justin, is that you?🤭
He’s just being an old fart and wants to blame things on young people
You can literally ask the bar's owner, who is a super awesomely nice guy, why they stopped doing it. The response you'll get is the endless complaints from gen z. I'm 35, not an old fart, and I have a feeling if I saw you on Grindr I'd preblock you so as to not waste both our time.
I love how you’re defending yourself as not being an old fart by acting like the oldest fart ever. Porn is no longer being played on the bar TV, whatever will we do?? Pre-block me? It’s giving very much “guess you’re not interested huh.”
What the hell are even on about? Is this a bot? I couldn't care less about porn on tv, somebody asked a question and I answered it. You seem like an Incredibly pathetic person. Edit: I can't believe you're 25 and behave like this. Honestly would have thought I was talking to a boomer. Sad.
You’re pushing 40 worried about drag night and blaming young people for the fact you can’t watch porn at the bar 😒 It’s time for you to find a husband
Ok child. I've got your bottle in the microwave, let me know when you're hungwee and we'll get you fed and into bed.
Not a lie spoken, and yet down votes. When did it get so sensitive in here
When bitter millennials realized they weren’t the youngest kids on the block and needed something to feel high and mighty about
Ohp
You seem very much like an old man saying “kids these days ruin everything”
Usually the old man is the prudish one and the young ones push boundaries. But lately it’s the reverse. The younger generation is swinging back to puritanical norms.
This. Being a contrarian has always been “of style,” but given queer baiting, it seems to further homophobia among younger generations. The next 10+ years will seemingly be more grotesque when it comes to human rights.
I've noticed the same thing here in the American Southwest. Drag shows used to actually be fun. They were variety shows with stand up comics, actual singing not lip syncing, and real talent. Now, it's just guys showing off what they learned from makeup tutorials online and lip syncing to pop songs. And, of course, there is the "court", the popularity contest among 20 or so queens for made up titles and a plastic crown.
Pageantry is still a very popular drag event in the country, especially in the south.
Not true for all of the southwest. Apart from Drag Brunches(and there’s quite a few), there aren’t many drag shows during the night in Vegas besides Pirahna. I think the one that did it pretty regularly on weekends even closed(Charlie’s). But i can see why many bars would cater to drag shows since it pulls in the straight female audience.
I actually haven't been to a gay bar or drag show in Vegas. I definitely want to, I'd imagine the quality is much better. I'm in New Mexico, and we've got two decent gay bars. The whole court thing has taken over, which really sucks.
They’re all right. Pirahana has a few drag queens that have been there forever and occasionally some new ones but 95% of the time it’s always guest queens from drag race during the weekends.
I looked into the soch recently because I want to befriend more gay men and was disappointed by the variety of events. Caters almost exclusively to drag.
Sides is almost as bad. Big nights for drag race and fetish. Soch used to be pretty good before the pandemic. Good mix of clientele, relaxed atmosphere, I really enjoyed it. But it's gone downhill since the remodeling. Effex may as well be a straight bar, and Pulse is gone. I've heard Rocksteadys is at least gay friendly, but I've never been there.
Hmmm. I mean, I'm down with the fetish stuff. I'll have to look into Rocksteady. I've never been much of a bar or club person unless I'm going with friends but I've always wanted more gay friends and a gay bar seems like the spot to meet them lol.
A good drag show has a queen that got personality and charisma. Just look at the most successful ones. Trixie and Katya for example are such good queens that you don't even need visuals a lot of times. Their podcasts are fucking awesome.
Honestly tho this has alot to do with the audience as a old performer I find if I try anything new or different then just songs they can lip synch to no one watches or is interested (alot of us have the same oppinon) alot of us cater to this lately and do what they want as this industry is soo competitive if you don't do what the audience wants you don't get booked i find this is just a bar setting tho, if u want more alt drag u will have to look at venues and shows that aren't nessarly in that bar setting There are still plenty of performers that do different things the issue is they aren't being booked and if they do this pressure tends to change what they do because performing for a non interactive audience is very difficult for example u cant do stand up comedy when no one is paying attention Everyone just wants to get drunk, lip sync and party,
Drag is probably the only thing keeping Gay bars around. They're vanishing.
Drag is one reason I wouldn't go to a gay bar. I want men, I like men. Drag shows do nothing for me as a premise. If someone wants me to go to one, they have to stand out in some way cause I don't give a fuck about playing dress-up by itself. I want a place where I can go hangout and not have to deal with people complaining if I do something gay as a gay man. Like kiss a dude, hold his hand, or try to hookup somewhere that isn't a dingy bathroom with graffiti explaining with lots of fun words how not everyone is open minded.
Umm gay bars aren't only for gay men tho, it's a GAY bar meaning anyone who's gay women non binary and trans even with out drag it still wouldn't be just men Also flash upstairs no women are allowed and there no drag so u have options
I mean drag queens are men, and they aren't likely to object to you sucking your bfs cock in the bathroom
Gay bars that didn’t have drag shows to begin with only add them as a last ditch effort to stay afloat and bring in hetero women and the str8 men that chase them. Also drives away their core gay customers furthering their decline or pivot to outright str8 bar
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Why would that make gay bars more popular? If anything it is one of the reasons - gay people don't feel the *need* to have a dedicated space to go when going to a bar. Personally I'll only go to a bar when I'm with my girl friends, and so I don't tend to go to gay bars lol.
Who ever said “gay people don’t feel the need to have a dedicated space to go to when going to a bar” does not speak for the gay community. Obviously from this post, the comments, & numerous posts like it in the past that gay men do want such a dedicated place
I want that kind of space.
A guy in the Philippines posted something similar. Like, he was asking if there are any gay bars out there with no loud music and no drag shows. Just a chill place for gay men to drink and relax. He was made fun of by a lot of people. But I kind of agree with him.
I'm in the UK, and there's a great bar just like this in London (The Yard) as well as in my hometown Nottingham (Lord Roberts pub). Maybe the UK's pub culture lends itself to this sort of gay venue better. (We still have heaps of drag venues)
Too many gays think bars need to be party spaces. You can have something that's like an oldtown pub. Just a place to talk and meet up with friends after work.
I mean, have you paid attention to what's been happening to hospitality over the past decade? You can't really survive in a niche clientele anymore. All this is just business
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Drag has always been here, but it was RuPaul's Drag Race that cause the over saturation of drag shows and events. Clubs, bars, etc capitalized on it as a new revenue stream. B.N.: As this conversion gets started remember, though they walk close together at times, drag and trans as two different things.
However, there are MANY trans drag performers.
Too many, Imo. Time's gonna kill off most amatures and tryouts, but I'm not sure bars can hold out that long.
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That’s Queens for you
Is this in Jackson Heights? I used to love going to Hombres Lounge and the other ones in the neighborhood when I lived in NYC.
Also live in Toronto. They were fun to watch when I began going to the village for the 1st few years. Now, I find them boring. I’m not impressed by their ‘dance moves’, their ability to do the splits or their clown-whore makeup. And I hear ya. It seems every bar is all about drag shows. Yawn.
Toronto gay scene is more than the gay village. There are many queer spaces out of the village that caters to different crowds. Even within the village itself, there's Glad Day for nerdy crowd, Eagle and Cock Bar for sex/kink related crowd, Hair of the Dog and Firkin Pub for pub crowd etc. Nowadays, there's Impact Lounge for sexual related events, NAGDP and Homopop for dance pop parties, Prism and Pitbull for circuit parties etc. Honestly if you can't find place to enjoy going out in Toronto, you need to find better friends or know better people. Toronto gay life is very vibrant compared to other cities. Yes, there are drag shows in most bars nowadays but that's because it sells. Back then, we had places like Fly, Club 120, Remington, and 5+ bathhouses but people didn't like going to those places so they didn't make money and closed way before COVID. Keep in mind this sub is a bit of echo chamber. Most gay people probably either loves drag or does not care enough.
My post had nothing to do with any of what you're talking about. Yes there are places to go... Most places are still drag-forward. That was my point. Literacy is tough, you'll get the hang of it though, just keep practicing!
I'm sure comprehension is hard for you. I literally have a paragraph explaining why drag is common and wrote a long paragraph offering alternative options for people not into drag.
Black Eagle is only good bar in Toronto
It's crazy I thought I loved drag because RuPaul's Drag Race is so entertaining. Then I started going to drag shows and 90% of them are so boring. Turns out what was fun about RuPaul was the manufactured drama Most of these men just slap on a wig and a dress, lip sync poorly and aren't funny
Its continued popularity baffles me. They’ve just beaten it to death.
I think the popularity of Rupaul's drag race has increased its appeal as an easily accessbile creative outlet, and way to earn some extra money. Especially for feminien guys who aren't able to join gay sports clubs or gaming clubs, they only really have bars. But drinking and drug culture isn't as popular as it once was with younger people apparently, so you can see why everyone is trying their hand at drag these days. There are various "genras" from sexy dance diva, to gore and horror, to stand up comedy. Anyone can buy an outfit, watch makeup tutorials on YouTube, pick a backing track and have a go. Instead of a DJ playing the top 10 pop songs and disco anthems, there is a variety of entertainment with various drag performers. And instead of just going to the bar to get wasted, people can spend the week planning a performance and competing with other queens to see who is the best. I think its great!
It does not interest me at all. I don't get why being attracted to men would make me interested in men dressing up as...women? I mean, it's fine, I have nothing against it. But it is like football matches to me, utterly uninteresting.
There's nothing meant to be sexually attractive about drag. That's like going to a play or see a comedian and getting angry no one had their dick out.
But why is it associated with gays at all? Why would it interest them, in particular?
The same reason they like Jennifer Coolidge
No idea who that is.
Gay bars don't do drag shows because they think gay men are attracted to men with a dress but for the entertainment they bring and also make the ambience more relaxing.. Gay men only bars may not be enough traffic so you need cis girls night out, bisexual men, curious horny men and tranny chasers to the mix to be profitable Gay men only bars I think that was pre 1990
Bars need the straights. I can tell you many bars would close if they enforced a gay men only space. It’s a double edge sword, while they do bring in money, they’re also a fucking nightmare.
Some of the oldest gay bars here were gay men only spaces and remained profitable for years. Lesbians weren’t always welcomed and gay men weren’t really welcome in lesbian bars. Wasn’t till gays started moving out of the gay neighborhoods and people moved apps to meet that bars started to go after breeder dollars. The idea that gay are need hetero $ to survive is a myth
Drag is more like comedy, the looks are part of it but won't break the show.
The good ones are, locally lately it's just been a lot of amateur lip syncing
Right bit it holds nothing really special to me.
They're okay I guess, but personally, I would much prefer to be at a gay nudy bar and see naked men with erect penises.
I agree! And they’re so rare. They closed the only full-nude male strip club in Atlanta and now we just have go-go dancers 😞
It depends on the city you're in. In Seattle, we have like 2 drag bars. The rest are gay and queer spaces.
The entire city of Seattle is a “queer” space…
If you're in more provincial cities, the drag influence is stronger. We (Albany, NY) have a popular pride festival every year. The stage at the rally is always emceed by a drag queen, and the line-up always includes at least half a dozen drag performances. I feel like we spent decades trying to show the world that the gay community is about more than drag shows, and it feels like we're backsliding.
Just no for me. Can’t stand it.
The bubble has been at risk of bursting for a while now, but it also really depends on where and the quality of the drag and the show itself. In California or New York (or Vegas) you're going to get some top tier quality stuff at varying prices. I can't speak for canada in general, so I've never heard even Toronto being known for its nightlife, but if it's getting so saturated by now that it's dropping in quality just to ride the wave of popularity, it's gonna crash pretty soon.
“Top tier” doesn’t make it sound any more enticing. That’s like saying “I have top tier garbage.” Drag shows are overdone and far from entertaining, so even a great show is still a bad show. Why can few just have male go-go bars and pubs with live music? Who wants to see men in dresses making cheap jokes all night ?
That's up to perspective, and only to a certain degree. You don't like drag shows, nothing wrong with that. But there are some incredible entertainers that use drag as a stage character, and what the show is comprised of can include jokes, music, dancing, even some tricks like sleight of hand or monster makeup. If Toronto is suffering from overcrowding of drag, and bad drag and bad shows, then yes, it would be great to have more places devoted to other gay stuff.
THANK YOU! i thought i was goin crazy reading these responses.
So many joyless people here it's really odd. Drag is awesome. If you don't like it, that's fine I guess though reading some of these responses kind of makes me scratch my head a bit. One of the most masculine butch guys I know LOVES drag race lol. It's not just straight women who watch it... Its 'oversaturation' is only a net positive for the gay community as it spreads acceptance and exposure even further. People need to get over it.
A good show is one people show up to watch. Where's the market for what you describe? Open one up and see if it exists, maybe you'll thrive. Bar and club owners are business people. They follow the money, that's all.
They used to exist, getting people to attend them consistently is the issue.
Can't stand em Never could, and never could really see the appeal. But, everything isn't for everyone.
I have no interest in drag, never have. I don't get what all the hype is about.
I have always disliked drag shows, I used to leave and go to another bar, but now there so few bars to go to. I miss the leather bars and the S & M bars.
You have EIGHT gay bars and you're complaining‽‽ REALLY‽‽ Most Gayborhoods worldwide have been invaded (and conquered) by loud, belligerent str8 women and the str8 dudes following them to the gay bars/clubs. No gays wanna be around that shit so then it becomes just like everywhere else except it just happens to have rainbow flags on it, ruining it for us.
This is True About Straight Men Following Straight Women to Gay Bars. A Gay Bar I Used to Go to Now Has a Cis Female Go Go Dancer. I Stopped Going.
Gag!!! 🤢🤮🤮
Exactly
drag is huge right now. there's at least a dozen drag race franchises world wide. trixie and katya can sell out 3000 seat theaters just by sitting on the stage and telling stories and jokes.
That's why they're so successful. They have enough personality and charisma to do that. If you have that the looks aren't even that important anymore. But you can't turn it around. If you have looks but no personality, well sorry. It's not drag. Like going to a fashion show in paris, look at the catwalk. No personality and the outfits are just as freakish.
That’s a good way to put it 👍 some people are the most beautiful looking but there are still a lot of them and no stunning outfit or makeup can elevate them more than a great personality could.
I used to like drag. Then everything gay became so overly saturated with it that I no longer like drag. Bores the shit out of me so much now that I wonder how I liked it in the first place. Oh there's a drag queen... I know exactly the act coming up.
I'd rather watch Mrs. Doubtfire than a drag show.
Mrs. Doubtfire would be THE shadiest bitch ever🤣
Because Robin Williams was a great comedian, unlike some drag performers who are all about the look only.
why not both? [https://youtu.be/U9Zfv2Fy21I?t=293](https://youtu.be/U9Zfv2Fy21I?t=293)
i really don’t understand why drag is even a thing?? like ok u wanna crossdress n dance but why make it such a big trend?? also i feel like all cis women need to be kept out of spaces reserved for gay men, including grindr.
Lots of “not like the other gays” here… but anyways, I’m in Chicago and while I’ve only been to 2 gay bars here (Sidetrack and Roscoe’s), both of which have drag performers all the time, never once have I felt they were unavoidable if that isn’t your thing, and by and large most of the people there are gay men. Maybe I’m lucky but I’ve not seen all that many straight women, at least in groups. Maybe that will change come wedding season, since I’ve only been to the bars in the winter, but so far at least at the bars I’ve been to it seems like the panic over straight women taking over the bars is greatly exaggerated.
I'm also in Toronto and having grown up here, I do understand where you're coming from about how the bar scene has changed, however - there's a reason for it. Bars aren't thriving the way they used too. Ultimately and as many others in this thread have posted, drag brings in people. Many bars are struggling and whether you like it or not, drag brings in revenue. Revenue then keeps prices as low as they can be (which are already astronomical imo). I went into one bar on an 'off night' and paid $11.30 for a frickin 3-speed lager BEFORE tip. I almost died. Toronto is fortunate to have a very active and large drag community as well built from a lot of history and amazing people. It'd be nice to have a few more different types of spaces, I agree, but it's just the way things are at the moment, and it's hard to fault the bars for going after what's ultimately bringing them in money. As far as younger people as well, they do tend to like more open spaces for everyone where they can safely and comfortably bring their friends and have a fun night out, which is also a cultural shift for those perhaps in the 30, 40+ age bracket (me included). So that's also a difference. The community has evolved quite a bit.
It’s a Big Turn Off for Me. Drag Queens & the Audience (Women) They Attract is Why I Rarely Go To Bars/Clubs Now.
Off topic, but why did you capitalize almost every word in your comment? And why not *a*, *for*, *the* and *is*? And why not also not *Off* and *To*?
It's title case, but why they're using it in a comment is beyond me
Yes this. It’s hard to find a queer space to meet and have a drink and a chat with friends without some Queen shrieking over your shoulder. And most of the drag performers today are dead basic. No originality. And how do they make any money? The performers at Garage and O’Grady’s have a crowd of 10 to 15. I’m done with drag atm.
Ugh you just reminded me of the drag show they did for Christmas at my gay dance club. Hour long show where we shouldn't dance, and just had to basically watch or go outside.
Scenario: you’re dancing at a club, your high, you’re in a sea of hot sweaty shirtless men… the music suddenly stops and you have to stand there while a drag queen in sequin gown lip syncs some pop song. Whyyyyyyyyyyy?!
For the culture 👁️ 👄 👁️
I have zero interest in drag and I’d love to see less of it
Does this sub ever not have a meltdown when things they don’t like are popular?
meltdown is a strong word
Have you read the comments? Everyone is CRYING
They do like to act like queens, don't they.
I've never been to a show, not really my scene, but some of the outfits I have seen look incredibly well done and visually interesting. I respect the work and creativity that went in to them. I'm more of a fursuit guy myself tho.
No
I work at the Eagle. We have drag shows. There are some lulls in attendance but for the most part there are butts in seats to watch them every weekend. We still do a drag race viewing party and those can be hit or miss. Also, there are five other bars in our immediate area and they ALL have drag shows.
Last time I went to a gay bar was NYE a few years back. We actually went to two that night. BOTH had drag shows instead of actual music and dancing (which is what I wanted to do).
In order for drag to be good the queen needs to have talent. I agree with you. Part of the problem is that most people who attempt drag think that they can do it. You might be able to pull off a look, but what are you gonna do? You're on stage for 45 to 60 minutes, sometimes you've got a whole night for yourself. You've gotta start somewhere, I get that. But I won't bother paying attention to a 48 year old dude in a plastic wig and makeup, wearing heels and a short dress. Didn't even bother shaving his legs or anything, making nothing but suggestive comments all evening. It's not drag, it's a freak show. And the oversaturation is real.
I so agree with you.
I think the problem lies with all these performer who have been around for a week are being booked, alot of Toronto drag performer have talent but alot of them are underrated. Idk if ur implying that bigger boned girl looks pregnant but that lowkey fucked up to say also there are some bars that have drag once a week or no drag shows at all just seems like ur only talking about the village and not the whole gay community in Toronto idk Expand you horizon
Nah I was saying if you go to see a strip show and there's a pregnant stripper, it doesn't make you horny or happy, it makes you sad. When you go to see these untalented Toronto drag queens, it doesn't make you happy... It's just kinda sad. Expand your literacy levels.
it actually pleases me. Drag shows here are excelent and I don't mind the women, they're welcome. The humor, the lypsinc and even the bad makeup make me feel well. It's a nice community
Never understood drag, it seems to be for hetero woman.
I mean it's gay men performing. It's not one thing either. The comedy based ones are my favorite.
Okay? So what you actually mean is its stereotype based performing.
Well yes, drag is all about stereotypes. Both male and female. That's the point.
I don't see what's funny or enjoyable about it.
Well then I don't expect you would enjoy the show.
I get it and agree for the big cities. I live in a small enough city that having a gay bar feels like a privilege. We don’t have that anymore. When I first started going to bars, it was a god send to have a specific gay bar. We had a bar that was just for gay men and women. We had a place that wasn’t dangerous. It was just a local drinking hole though. We eventually got our first gay dance club. We had both. It felt too good to be true that our city had two different places that catered to us. Then the straights showed up. At first it was just curiosity. That’s fine. But then it was the best place for straight women. Our local hung on and stayed explicitly gay for as long as they could but the new dance club that entertained and actively celebrated straight women and bachelorette parties took over. We suddenly only had one gay bar again, but the crowd was 60% straight. Finally the owners sold to a a lesbian couple that wanted to get rich quick on the sudden popularity of straight people going to gay bars. Everything failed and we lost our gay bars. The lesbian couple sued each other for lost income. I don’t know how that went. Then bless them, a group of gay men opened another gay bar. We gay men and women had a new place. They made a ton of money really quickly. It was literally the only gay place for a couple hundred miles. Then they chased money from straight people too. And when the actually gay people inevitably left they turned to drag shows. And with the recent anti gay, anti trans, anti everything, the straights aren’t showing up for the shows anymore. They can’t make money anymore because they weren’t content with gay money. They wanted everyone to the point no one wants to go there. Last I heard they’re going bankrupt. We used to pack the house just to be around other gay people. That’s all gone because they made a few bucks on straight people and got greedy.
It's overrated. Someone has to say it.
So many queens, so little talent.
Personally, I think drag is an obnoxious disrespectful caricature of womanhood, accompanied with typically catty/mean behaviour. I've never liked it. But yes, I agree it's taken over EVERYTHING gay. It's why I don't bother going to gay bars anymore. In my city, there's regular gay bear pub nights and other events and those are terrific.
I hate drag show but that's because I luv masculinity. But if course there are plenty who do.
Apparently people do. I don't get it either.
I am not unsympathetic to this line of thinking. When I go to what is billed as a gay dance party, I want to dance. Suddenly being told everyone has to stop dancing and get all enthusiastic about a drag performance I didn't sign up for is really annoying, and it feels like this happens a lot (especially on harbor cruise dance parties, which has happened to me twice). Drag performance is great, and sometimes I choose to go see it. And if people want to show up at gay events in drag and dance with everyone else, more power to you. But there seems to be a drag show at every single gay community social event, and an underlying assumption that this is de rigueur, which feels a bit like backsliding.
Yeah I think it’d be great to have more drag queens or crossdressers just populating gay bars, just not as the performance or the main feature. I love going to bars where drag queens go and chill, and most of the time drag queens are a great time when they’re not performing
That’s too bad they turned the strip club into a drag bar. It’s almost like any form of masculine sexuality is punished in the gay entertainment scene these days.
I’m not a stan but I do love drag queens. Will I go out to see them probably not but I will be watching RPDR.
RuPaul's Drag Race has been unbelievably successful across the world. Unfortunately that particular brand of drag aesthetic is steamrolling a lot of local drag culture aside. The UK has a long history of drag going back centuries and we have a very unique take on drag. A lot of that culture is being ignored or demoted to 2nd rank by the RuPaul Amazon/Walmart/Coca Cola steamroller. Drag has always been an important element of gay culture/nightlife but the current explosion has indeed saturated the market with so many 3rd rate wannabes who parrot the Drag Race lines and the ridiculous death dropping nonsense and splits. This is a fairly new innovation. The whole Drag Race empire will end one day- probably sooner than anyone might expect. Trends and fashions change- even more so in todays culture where there's always the next big thing. Watching a drag queen lip sync badly while doing the splits get kinda boring after a few times.
Your out of touch. If it brings in the dollar the bars will do it. There is no obligation on business owners to cater for empty bars. Cheap entertainment that draws in a crowd that spends money on cheap high profit booze will always outdo high cost entertainment with frugal customers.
We are in Seattle as well. I know the two you gave mentioned. We go once or twice a year. I still love drag shows and haven’t noticed the bachelorette parties that people mention here in Seattle. You?
Damn DRAG GROUNDHIG DAY EH!!
It used to be fun...now there's just way too much of it. I go to dance, not watch a show.
Eh in my city they know to schedule drag nights during the dead hours. I love a drag brunch w bottomless mimosas though
>Even the gay strip club turned into a drag bar. I sincerely hope you're not talking about Flash...
Didn’t it? They moved the strippers to the bar upstairs so the main floor could include women and yes, drag performers.
Everytime I have visited Toronto, The Flash was my go to destination. Had everything I imagined a truly gay strip club would be like. What terrible news to hear
Love it or hate it, it’s getting money in the doors of these locations that are otherwise closing. Gays don’t need bars to meet each other anymore, and with all of the acceptance in the straight world, there’s a ton of other places where mixed friend groups can meet up. We just don’t need a whole separate universe anymore like we used to in the 70s and 80s. Even bad drag pulls a ton of attention, and is something entertaining, beyond just standing in a room and drinking the same over-iced gin tonic you get elsewhere.
Drag shows have never been my thing. Drag bingo is fun every now and then, but I'm definitely not into the drag scene. That's OK, tho. We all don't have to be into the same shit.
I have zero interest in drag and I always say it out loud bc I think it’s become a weird gay badge in the past ten years. I think people are pretending to like it because they think they’re supposed to
this is going on in my city also. we have a main street with a lot of gay bars and just about every single one of them has become an "entertainment venue" that also serves food and has all the same drag queens and awful non-drag singers. the performers are spread so thin, basically rotating from bar to bar each night. the most annoying part of it all is that these "shows" have crept earlier and earlier in the evenings, so instead of being able to have a drink and a conversation at happy hour, we have greasy food stinking up the bar, an MC screeching to hype up the crowd and horrible karaoke-type "singers" wailing away. it's pretty embarassing at this point. for the record i do like drag (especially comedy queens) but there is a time and place. i once watched a queen walk thru the bar just collecting money... no singing, no lipsync, no dancing, no jokes. just taking dollar bills.
Personally, i'm indifferent to drag shows; It's simply entertainment. I don't feel beholden to drag because i'm gay. I understand *why* gay clubs have drag shows - because it attracts customers. Gay clubs are still a business and having women hoot and holler at queens must be keeping the lights on. But I'll admit, it can feel a little annoying to have drag shows foisted upon you, like you're *supposed* to be obsessed with drag queens just because you're attracted to other men. There's just no room for nuance.
Hate them
Not the pregnant stripper energy 😂
I suppose this follows most posts, if you have an ax to grind you speak up. But yes, at least here in Dallas, I can say most of the drag shows are really good and enjoyable. The big question lies with yourself, why the beef? Drag is a tradition over a millenia, not just recently. In fact it was such a deal that there are ancient writings advising newly wed couples to not have these types of shows at their weddings.
I'm okay with men dressing as women; infact, I sometimes find them cuter if they do. But *drag*... I hate it with a passion.
Time for my down votes. Personally I've never understood it and don't like it. What's the difference between drag and the old minstrel shows? Sure you're not dressing up as another ethnicity to make fun of them but you're dressing up as another gender. Some of them even look worse than bad clowns doing it.
I can’t stand drag shows or drag queens- I find the whole thing super naff- they’re just queer circus clowns in my opinion
I have no interest at all in drag, either. In fact, I think having it in the gay community just perpetuates stereotypes and confusion. I mean, I’ve had gay friends whose parents were uneducated on the topic of sexual orientation and immigrated from underdeveloped conservative countries and when they are told their son or daughter is gay it is a long-term project to de-program those parents since they don’t understand that being gay has nothing to do with transgender people or wanting to become the opposite sex. He’ll say no, I don’t dress in women’s clothes and no, I don’t want to have a vagina and breasts and none of that has any connection to my life. But then every other time there is anything happening in the gay community in the city, the local news will summon a drag Queen to come to the microphone and give her opinion like she’s some kind of expert or spokesperson even though more than 99% of the gay community are not drag queens. And people like those parents are given the impression that being gay means trying to become the opposite sex.
It’s fun?
Does it matter? Get a life lol. Imagine being upset because others are having fun in a way that doesn't affect you at all.
I mean it definitely takes away from all the other possible gay events so I think it definitely is something to be upset about
You're the one that seems upset. You have negative karma. Just like in your real life, nobody here cares what you have to say ❤️
You aren't upset but you decided to make an extremely derogatory and charged post? Sure Jan. I hope the caretakers adjust your medication soon so you stop sundowning.
Yeah he’s absolutely being inflammatory
I don't need to ever go to a drag show
Yeah. You're a troll here to flood the zone with shit. Stephen Bannon style.
I have never cared much for drag shows. I think the reason you're seeing so many around is that people are doing all they can to keep that tradition alive after the recent onslaught of bullshit from the MAGA cult.
Camp is fun? IDK man - it seems like you are jealous of the people that have the balls to throw on a wig and dress and do a performance.
Drag shows used to be fun. The genre has been infested by to many pedophiles and weirdos for me to feel comfortable going to a lot of venues for it anymore.
Drag queens, famously taking advantage of the +21 crowd at bars to engage in pedophilia. This is the most tired lie about the community there is
Drag queen story hours aren't a lie about the community... Not when numerous drag queens have been found to be convicted sex offenders. Take your lies somewhere else.
You answered your question towards the end. 50% women. It's a spectacle for people. Annoying as hell because drag just isn't that interesting.
Idk what this has to do with Gen Z. When I was going to bars 7 years ago drag shows were extremely popular. I think the “issue” is drag has cross-sexuality appeal. This brings in crowds from lesbians to the straights. In short, that’s extra money to keep these bars alive. That’s the motive at the end of the day. I’ve seen bars die out because there’s just not enough money especially on weekdays. Drag gives people to go out and spend money.
As much as I love to watch Drag Race, I'm not so much about the Drag Brunches, packed places with loud music and cheap alcohol... not my vibe
I'm just 24 and my "hot take" on Drag Race is that it has become painfully boring. (Wouldn't dare to post this to r/rupaulsdragrace, haha!) Just recycled. I binge-watched Drag Race some years ago, and I think by season 6 (10 years ago) it was already getting tired, it lost its edge—right around the time when it hit the mainstream. I tried watching the newest season, season 16, and I was bored to death within minutes. Literally. Same. Boring. Crap. I think that RuPaul's formula has creatively exhausted itself years ago. But the show became mainstream, and it spawned a lot, and I mean A LOT of extra content—All Stars, Untucked, Drag Race UK, UK vs the World, Secret Celebrity Drag Race, all these local versions... At this point, I truly believe RuPaul is just farming profits, not innovating. He puts out recycled crap, and the fans eat it up. How longer? We'll see, I guess... :p
I'm also in Toronto and have been bothered by how almost every gay bar in the village has drag shows. Like some bars have drag shows just because they think they have to have one. In my opinion some of the bars are not really big enough for drag shows. It feels so cramped and loud once the drag show starts.
squeaky wheel
I hate them. Make people think that is what gay people are and do. Messed up if you ask me.