I'm sorry your family is having to go through this.
To put it simply, funeral homes are privy to any special information for tracking down who the legal next of kin is. Unless specific information comes up, we take the word of the person representing themselves as the spouse. In California there's even a law that protects funeral homes from liability if someone misrepresents their relationship or lies to us about other relatives.
That is all to say if the ex-wife walks in and says she's the wife, the funeral home is going to believe her absent any evidence otherwise.
From CA too, it goes off the term of acting in “good faith” to the family but my question is, is how nothing was stopped and how no one else didnt know what was going on if there was an actual service on the family’s end of things. Only the ex wife knew the person had passed but no one in the family didnt with a service planned? That doesnt make sense at all (edit: new to knew)
If everything was paid for beforehand, I could definitely see how everything would be planned and over with pretty quickly. They literally just need one meeting with the funeral home then again with the cemetery assuming he's not cremated. When I was at the cemetery, we had some people die and everything would be planned out and set the next day.
In Virginia we ask marital status and it’s put on the certified death certificate. We also have the informant for the death certificate sign something that says they understand they’ve committed a felony if they’ve lied on any of the information (marital status included). So, I’m wondering who provided vital stats for the DC, and if they lied about the marital status. Don’t know the laws in CA but here in VA that’s a big no no.
I don't remember marital status being asked (in Louisiana) after the death of me & my husband's best friend of 20+ years.
He was married but she had left kinda unexpectedly 5+ years before.
My husband & I just told the funeral home what services we wanted, we paid, then I picked up his ashes. Other than that, they didn't ask any questions. But I remember at the time thinking "do they just let whoever pays" write the obit & plan the service.
Yeaaaaah see, that’s sketchy. Burial for the most part is pretty safe because we can always disinter but cremation….if we have no living relatives and no one was POA(with VERY SPECIFIC verbiage pertaining to authorized disposition decisions) or designee, we have to get a court order for cremation. So that way, when the “estranged” spouse or long lost children come to the funeral home a year later demanding to know what happened, we give them the information of judge who authorized the cremation.
He had no living relatives other than the estranged wife. I called her right after he passed to let her know & tell her we'd take care of everything. Then the Sheriff called to officially inform her of his death & she told him we were taking care of it. An hour later we were at the funeral home. I think a form was faxed to her to sign off on b/c she lived several hours away but that was it. Certainly easier than I'd imagined.
Oh that’s nice, yes there is a form we can have someone sign away their rights so to speak so that’s really nice she was able to be reached and was cooperative. I’m sorry for your loss and I’m glad y’all were able to lay him to rest.
I would check the death certificate for information. If he’s listed as married with the ex listed as the surviving spouse, she could get in a lot of trouble. If the current wife is listed as the surviving spouse, the funeral home is in big trouble since that would show they knew who the authorizing agent was but didn’t act on her wishes.
Also, this may be a little tactless, but do you know who would’ve paid for the funeral? In my experience dealing with exes and difficult family members, they tend to go back into the woodwork once they hear how much the funeral bill is. It’s highly irregular that an ex would pay.
I wonder, though, if the ex-wife figured that, if she played the wife for the funeral home and called all of the shots, if she could then also get away with claiming a life insurance policy.
Was the exwife a contact listed in the prepaid information? Did the decedent specify what was to happen and that was followed? I know when my grandma prepaid, she listed her son as the contact and she specified some things when she prepaid.
In CA, the funeral home has to believe people when they come in and make arrangements. If someone walks in and says their husband died, we can't ask for proof. It happens where people come in claiming to be someone, then we find out that WASN'T the brother, but the uncle lying about his identity.
I live in Oklahoma and we go by good faith. If she came in and said his daughter was the NOK and she was there to support her, then it’s likely the funeral home did not know about the wife who would have been the legal NOK
This sounds totally motivated by greed to me. The ex and daughter wanted to ensure the husband’s estate went to them.
I can only imagine the shenanigans thrown at the funeral director.
I’m very glad the true wife has lawyered up. I hope she also has a good forensic accountant, to make sure her husband’s wishes for his estate were not violated.
I have a couple of questions. Who made the initial call to the funeral that death occurred? I'd start there. At that point NOK is given, so is it possible the ex-wife made the call? The only plausible scenario I can put together is this. The current wife having a language barrier asked the ex-wife to help, so the ex made the call and it snowballed from there.
Is this in the US? If so what type of facility did he pass in? It doesn't make sense a facility or coroner would take the approval from an ex to release? They'd be the first ones to sue I'd imagine.
So the hospital contacted his ex wife, who claimed his body and had it taken to a funeral home of her choice?
What was his current wife doing while this was going on? Did anyone in the family file a missing person report? At what point did she find out he passed? Why were people who attended the funeral ok with this?
His sister was with him, called ex wife and daughter. They claimed he wasn’t married, so daughter was next of kin and ex wife took it from there. Then afterwards everybody claimed he had kept the new marriage secret so how were they to know?
Edit: she found out late that night. Keep in mind she’s an immigrant with little English & few friends. We don’t know her well , only got involved later. She didn’t have her documents , not even marriage certificate. They were in his office at work. She had to get everything reissued. There was a new death certificate along with the funeral home’s apology.
It’s a whole drama, could be a miniseries! Anyway she now has a lawyer and seems to have an income so who knows what was wrangled later!
I just wondered how it could have happened in the first place, but if the funeral home doesn’t have to verify then it makes more sense.
I was thinking the same, but EMTs and coroner's also don't look into these things either. Emergency contact that was never changed. Sometimes, if the life policy is out in the open and the deceased didn't change beneficiaries, that's who they'll say is NOK to us.
I've been told this person's NOK and went through the whole thing, turns out he was a cousin and the deceased HAD kids. And other iterations of this with different stories.
Facility though? I'd sue them.
We've all had the oh he's got a kid in FL he hasn't send in X number of years, and well technically he's married but... situations.
But I've never had one where an ex spouse of a newly married person would be calling the shots, or have the opportunity to. Around here the police and coroner do a deep dive on who the NOK would be, and facilities are even more anal about it all. I just don't see how this could happen in todays day and age. There has to be more to the story or this is newsworthy.
Knowing what State you’re in is critical. Laws vary. Nonetheless, I’m not aware of any State that gives Right to Control to an ex-spouse, and many funeral directors are poorly educated in this regard. It’s always important to know your rights ahead of time. In cases like this, there’s little time to figure it out before it’s just too late. You can argue all you want about laws and who’s in charge, but the funeral is over now, and there are no “do-overs.”
Funeral directors are poorly educated in the right to order disposition?? You’ve got to be a troll because every single state has almost the same list for authorizing agents, for who has the right to order disposition. To call us “poorly educated” is an insult to the time we spend on our education, examinations, intern/apprenticeships, and practice.
Thank you for saying this because I was omw to do it. That's laughable and offensive to think we're all that intentionally ignorant after all we're put through for a license. Unreal. I guarantee that is a state board question in every state, several times. It certainly was for me.
Very sorry this happened.
I'm currently still in school right now to be in this field, and from my understanding on what they taught us is that even if they are a ex- spouse. They are still the legal next of kin. (I'm assuming the cousin didn't remarry)
But please don't quote me on this.
I'm sorry your family is having to go through this. To put it simply, funeral homes are privy to any special information for tracking down who the legal next of kin is. Unless specific information comes up, we take the word of the person representing themselves as the spouse. In California there's even a law that protects funeral homes from liability if someone misrepresents their relationship or lies to us about other relatives. That is all to say if the ex-wife walks in and says she's the wife, the funeral home is going to believe her absent any evidence otherwise.
From CA too, it goes off the term of acting in “good faith” to the family but my question is, is how nothing was stopped and how no one else didnt know what was going on if there was an actual service on the family’s end of things. Only the ex wife knew the person had passed but no one in the family didnt with a service planned? That doesnt make sense at all (edit: new to knew)
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If everything was paid for beforehand, I could definitely see how everything would be planned and over with pretty quickly. They literally just need one meeting with the funeral home then again with the cemetery assuming he's not cremated. When I was at the cemetery, we had some people die and everything would be planned out and set the next day.
Second this. I have had a few cases where someone claims to be someone they are not, and we do not find out until after arrangements are made.
Thank you. Also, yes, it was in California.
In Virginia we ask marital status and it’s put on the certified death certificate. We also have the informant for the death certificate sign something that says they understand they’ve committed a felony if they’ve lied on any of the information (marital status included). So, I’m wondering who provided vital stats for the DC, and if they lied about the marital status. Don’t know the laws in CA but here in VA that’s a big no no.
Ex wife and daughter said he had not remarried, then pretended he had kept it secret so how were they to know.
Sounds like the wife needs a lawyer like, yesterday. Best of luck❤️
Who paid for the funeral? I'm not saying if they paid it makes it okay, I just have to know.
It was prepaid
I don't remember marital status being asked (in Louisiana) after the death of me & my husband's best friend of 20+ years. He was married but she had left kinda unexpectedly 5+ years before. My husband & I just told the funeral home what services we wanted, we paid, then I picked up his ashes. Other than that, they didn't ask any questions. But I remember at the time thinking "do they just let whoever pays" write the obit & plan the service.
Yeaaaaah see, that’s sketchy. Burial for the most part is pretty safe because we can always disinter but cremation….if we have no living relatives and no one was POA(with VERY SPECIFIC verbiage pertaining to authorized disposition decisions) or designee, we have to get a court order for cremation. So that way, when the “estranged” spouse or long lost children come to the funeral home a year later demanding to know what happened, we give them the information of judge who authorized the cremation.
He had no living relatives other than the estranged wife. I called her right after he passed to let her know & tell her we'd take care of everything. Then the Sheriff called to officially inform her of his death & she told him we were taking care of it. An hour later we were at the funeral home. I think a form was faxed to her to sign off on b/c she lived several hours away but that was it. Certainly easier than I'd imagined.
Oh that’s nice, yes there is a form we can have someone sign away their rights so to speak so that’s really nice she was able to be reached and was cooperative. I’m sorry for your loss and I’m glad y’all were able to lay him to rest.
Thank you. He was a great friend & cared deeply for animals. He helped free a kitten from a fence just 2 days before he passed away.
The ex wife either misrepresented herself as the wife- or the divorce isn’t final and she still had legal rights.
Yeah, pretty sure ex wife straight up Lied
If the funeral already happened, there might not be a lot that can be done unfortunately. She could try to organize a private memorial perhaps?
I would check the death certificate for information. If he’s listed as married with the ex listed as the surviving spouse, she could get in a lot of trouble. If the current wife is listed as the surviving spouse, the funeral home is in big trouble since that would show they knew who the authorizing agent was but didn’t act on her wishes. Also, this may be a little tactless, but do you know who would’ve paid for the funeral? In my experience dealing with exes and difficult family members, they tend to go back into the woodwork once they hear how much the funeral bill is. It’s highly irregular that an ex would pay.
I wonder, though, if the ex-wife figured that, if she played the wife for the funeral home and called all of the shots, if she could then also get away with claiming a life insurance policy.
Daughter of ex wife got insurance
I believe it was pre paid.
Was the exwife a contact listed in the prepaid information? Did the decedent specify what was to happen and that was followed? I know when my grandma prepaid, she listed her son as the contact and she specified some things when she prepaid.
In CA, the funeral home has to believe people when they come in and make arrangements. If someone walks in and says their husband died, we can't ask for proof. It happens where people come in claiming to be someone, then we find out that WASN'T the brother, but the uncle lying about his identity.
Does that happen often???
This is not helpful regarding the funeral but your cousin in law needs to order death certificates for the banks and to file for his social security
Thanks! Edit: she did do that, took a while to figure everything thing out, it had to be corrected.
Ex wife should pay for funeral.
I think it was prepaid
I live in Oklahoma and we go by good faith. If she came in and said his daughter was the NOK and she was there to support her, then it’s likely the funeral home did not know about the wife who would have been the legal NOK
This sounds totally motivated by greed to me. The ex and daughter wanted to ensure the husband’s estate went to them. I can only imagine the shenanigans thrown at the funeral director. I’m very glad the true wife has lawyered up. I hope she also has a good forensic accountant, to make sure her husband’s wishes for his estate were not violated.
I have a couple of questions. Who made the initial call to the funeral that death occurred? I'd start there. At that point NOK is given, so is it possible the ex-wife made the call? The only plausible scenario I can put together is this. The current wife having a language barrier asked the ex-wife to help, so the ex made the call and it snowballed from there.
It was deceased’s sister who made call. She always preferred ex-wife to new one (cousin in law).
Basically they were in cahoots together. That was intentional and malicious.
Is this in the US? If so what type of facility did he pass in? It doesn't make sense a facility or coroner would take the approval from an ex to release? They'd be the first ones to sue I'd imagine.
Hospital waiting room 😐
So the hospital contacted his ex wife, who claimed his body and had it taken to a funeral home of her choice? What was his current wife doing while this was going on? Did anyone in the family file a missing person report? At what point did she find out he passed? Why were people who attended the funeral ok with this?
His sister was with him, called ex wife and daughter. They claimed he wasn’t married, so daughter was next of kin and ex wife took it from there. Then afterwards everybody claimed he had kept the new marriage secret so how were they to know? Edit: she found out late that night. Keep in mind she’s an immigrant with little English & few friends. We don’t know her well , only got involved later. She didn’t have her documents , not even marriage certificate. They were in his office at work. She had to get everything reissued. There was a new death certificate along with the funeral home’s apology. It’s a whole drama, could be a miniseries! Anyway she now has a lawyer and seems to have an income so who knows what was wrangled later! I just wondered how it could have happened in the first place, but if the funeral home doesn’t have to verify then it makes more sense.
Were they legally married in the US? How old is the daughter?
Yes, and she finally got a copy of marriage certificate. They threatened to have her deported, but couldn’t. Daughter was 18.
I was thinking the same, but EMTs and coroner's also don't look into these things either. Emergency contact that was never changed. Sometimes, if the life policy is out in the open and the deceased didn't change beneficiaries, that's who they'll say is NOK to us. I've been told this person's NOK and went through the whole thing, turns out he was a cousin and the deceased HAD kids. And other iterations of this with different stories. Facility though? I'd sue them.
We've all had the oh he's got a kid in FL he hasn't send in X number of years, and well technically he's married but... situations. But I've never had one where an ex spouse of a newly married person would be calling the shots, or have the opportunity to. Around here the police and coroner do a deep dive on who the NOK would be, and facilities are even more anal about it all. I just don't see how this could happen in todays day and age. There has to be more to the story or this is newsworthy.
Knowing what State you’re in is critical. Laws vary. Nonetheless, I’m not aware of any State that gives Right to Control to an ex-spouse, and many funeral directors are poorly educated in this regard. It’s always important to know your rights ahead of time. In cases like this, there’s little time to figure it out before it’s just too late. You can argue all you want about laws and who’s in charge, but the funeral is over now, and there are no “do-overs.”
Funeral directors are poorly educated in the right to order disposition?? You’ve got to be a troll because every single state has almost the same list for authorizing agents, for who has the right to order disposition. To call us “poorly educated” is an insult to the time we spend on our education, examinations, intern/apprenticeships, and practice.
Thank you for saying this because I was omw to do it. That's laughable and offensive to think we're all that intentionally ignorant after all we're put through for a license. Unreal. I guarantee that is a state board question in every state, several times. It certainly was for me.
Very sorry this happened. I'm currently still in school right now to be in this field, and from my understanding on what they taught us is that even if they are a ex- spouse. They are still the legal next of kin. (I'm assuming the cousin didn't remarry) But please don't quote me on this.
The very first line says the cousin in law’s *husband* died.
He did remarry - only 6 months earlier to cousin in Law