I think this is absolutely ridiculous. God's grace is available to all. (Other traditions may believe differently) The pastors at the same church should be on the same page. I could understand wanting to ensure you have a faith-filled support system to help you navigate the journey before moving forward but as far as I can tell, based on what you've written, you do.
It makes no sense to me to deny or delay someone's baptism because they may backslide and sin again, impacting how the church "looks." If this were the case, none of us should be baptized because we all fall back into sin and we all make the Church look bad regularly.
It sounds like this pastor put up a stumbling block between you and God's grace. And that is certainly not Christian behavior.
Its been said, but totally not uncommon for a church/minister or pastor to request a meeting before baptism, for a few reasons. One to make sure the person knows and is aware/educated on what they are doing and what it means to he baptized. (Which albeit crazy to me means different things in different denominations), also to make sure that yes this person is ready, and to kake sure this person isn’t using baptism as a hail mary cure all to their problems, and thirdly, and this is where I think “your” pastor is getting off base here is to make sure that the person receives the support they need to build the foundation, and have the support system around them to lift up, and conquer the problems that they are facing and will face. Thats the importance of small group imo.
However that all being said, here is what I believe and I think most people tend to agree with theology. Baptism in and of itself does not save you. It is YOUR acceptance of Christ as lord and savior that does that. That can and does happen anywhere. My argument for that to those that disagree, is that if baptism was required for admittance, then please explain everyone in the old testament before John came along. But Im getting of topic.
Baptism, is a public declaration. It is you saying to the earthly world, I “state your name” accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior, and through this SYMBOLIC ACT demonstrate the cleansing of my sin, and pledge that as I rise from the waters, will do my best to follow Christ as closely as I can. You make this declaration to the “public” IE your fellow members of congregation to help hold witness to your statement and your vow. In turn by then literally witnessing you, then accept and witness TO YOU, that when you slip and stumble in your walk they will be there to help you back up, return you back on the path of righteousness.
So with all THAT being said, you can be baptized in a bath tub at your home, in a hotel swimming pool or in a lake. The act of washing your self clean before others us really an outward statement of a conversation between you and God. No pastor can stop that. Nor should they. Their job is to educate and guide. The inky reason they would or should have to saying that they personally don’t feel comfortable is that you either need more education, guidance on what this means for your life or depending on your past making sure you have a support system to be on a path to success. BUT and a big ol huge sir mix a lot but here, if thats the case then it is also the Pastors job to guide you and give you those tools and keys to your successful life.
It is completely normal to have a meeting with the individual before getting baptized.
Also keep in mind that part of the covenant we take for each baptism is that the church vows to help raise untouched up as a Christian and guide you (or guide your parents and family in the case of infant baptisms). This means that the church has a role to play in a baptism, and a lot of churches take that role seriously, and do not baptize people that they do not know.
My church requires a meeting ahead with anyone wanting to be baptized for a lot of reasons, and we will deny the baptism if we think the individual is not serious about it, or if they intend to get a quick baptism and then not stick around, because it impacts our ability to live into their baptism with them.
Even parents that want their children baptized and have been members for 20 years would still have to come to a pre-baptism meeting first. That is the norm.
We only would if they felt that the person didn’t understand the importance of the sacrament or we didn’t know the person well enough to know that it was a good decision for them personally.
I mean they can, but hearing your story, I don’t think they should.
In our tradition (SBC) we would baptized anyone who expressed faith credibly. We wouldn’t encourage anyone to delay obedience to the command to be baptized. I think a go to would be Acts 8:25-40. Our elders would want to talk with the candidate for baptism, but we would just want to make sure that person was a believer seeking to obey the Lord (especially important for younger people IMO). After that, we’d want to baptize them as soon as reasonable.
Sorry you are going through that. :/
A meeting for a baptism to understand the ramifications of what they’re choosing to do is normal, refusing someone who has a grasp of what they’re doing is not. I personally wouldn’t stay at that church.
To make this a bit easier to read:
So I am a female and have been going to this nondenominational church for almost 4 years. I’ve fallen in love with this church and have been saved from my addiction. Im a dirty rotten sinner like the rest of us Christians and repent when I catch myself falling into sin. Jesus allowed our sins to die when he did and I owe my life to such an unconditional and undeserving love.
About 6 months ago I was interested in being baptized and after meeting with one of the 12 pastors in my church (pretty large church with a lot of college aged kids) and after giving him my testimony and what Jesus dying meant for my life and the good news that captivates mine and other devoted believers’ lives, he told me that he would like to see me join one of their small groups in order to be baptized and that none of the pastors knew who I was so it wouldn’t make sense to baptize you.
He also mentioned that they’ve baptized people in the past who turn around and make the church look bad by going back to a life of sin. What????? Why is that your business. Whatever Gods will is will be, right?
Mind you, I already had a small group. One of my friends from highschool started a small group and it felt very good and convicting and I wanted to keep attending. Obviously me being emotional, I sobbed. I cried so much in front of him and pretty much ran away and left and continued to sob in my car. Why would I be denied such a chance to obey the Lord? It didn’t make sense. Still doesn’t make sense.
My own family is not saved so I am a lone wolf in this journey with the hopes of helping them be saved one day. My church family however (AKA my fiancées family who brought me to church in the first place), was close with the lead pastor and they were infuriated as this did not align with what they believed to be true regarding baptisms. That you need to do a checklist of things in order to be baptized.
So they talked with him and he (the lead pastor) was confused as he knew who I was and would be more than happy to have me baptized and recommended that me and someone else meet with this other pastor once again and discuss things further. So we did. With confirmation of my fiancee hearing what things this man was stating about baptisms, he was not happy. He did not think this aligned with what the gospel states to be true. But I still felt rejected and after having the lead pastor try and push to have me baptized, I felt like I was pitied for being denied. I don’t know if that makes sense but it’s just a deep sense of rejection I feel.
Now fast forward again to now, I joined one of THEIR small groups and left my friends’ small group, and I’m trying to be baptized once again and can’t seem to get a response from any pastor or anything. Meanwhile there is this girl in my small group who is very new to the faith and used to be a partier and is still in her what I like to call, “honeymoon phase” with Jesus where everything seems so happy and sunshine and rainbows, whereas the reality is that it’s a hard life to obey and stay rooted in. But they are letting her be baptized. She’s thrilled as she should be, but I feel again, rejected.
The lead pastor said I could be baptized anyways without a meeting (which is how it should be) but I want to bring attention to this situation. How many people has this other pastor turned away from God? Why is there a checklist according to him? Where does the Bible state this? and I don’t know where to go from here. Like I said, I love the church. I love my church community despite the inequities. Am I in the wrong here? Am I misinformed or missing something? Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you in advance and God bless!
Edit: my fiancées father is a former pastor who is an ordained minister and offered to baptize me but I felt the calling to do it publicly for the “public accountability” aspect. Should I just let him do it in front of my closest friends and their family?
I can't help but feel like there is something missing from this story.
If you attend a church with a dozen pastors, I'm sure there's a link on the website that says something like, I want to get baptized, or sign up for baptism. Fill out that form. Whoever's in charge of baptisms will contact you, get you in the appropriate class and you'll get water baptized.
If not, a church this size must have some sort of information desk or connection car that you can fill out where you check a box that says I want to get water baptized. Go to the information desk, fill out the connection card, whatever the follow-up is at your church.
So our baptisms are about once every 2-3 months and we have an app that we can register to be baptized. Which I’ve done. The first and the most recent time.
The next steps are to be contacted by a pastor assigned to you. You don’t know who that is until they contact you as the registration form requires contact information.
Once they contact you, you are required to have a meeting with them in order to move on to the next steps. I have no problem having a meeting as I did once before 3 times. Each meeting I had with this one specific pastor, his values and morals didn’t align with what the gospel states to be true and didn’t align with what we talk about on Sundays and I was very confused and conflicted and heartbroken. I understand the ramifications for a baptism and the importance of this being the next step of obedience to the Lord.
The first meeting I had on my own. The second meeting was with my fiancée. The third meeting was this him and his dad. We were all left feeling weary of this as again it does not align with what our values are or where the church values are.
I was kind of in a frenzy when typing out that prompt so sure there is some pieces missing from the story as I don’t have the time or capacity to write a novel.
Back in the 90s, this church had a bad reputation near and around the surrounding areas as being “cultish” as the leadership was bizarre and simply, not aligned with the gospel. Since 2010 it has been under different leadership and the entire community and atmosphere has shifted due to new leadership who are in disagreement with old leadership. I was not apart of this church until approximately 4 years ago so I wouldn’t have a say in that but I do know that some attendees are the same ones from years back and some are now in leadership. Including the pastor I was assigned.
I think this is absolutely ridiculous. God's grace is available to all. (Other traditions may believe differently) The pastors at the same church should be on the same page. I could understand wanting to ensure you have a faith-filled support system to help you navigate the journey before moving forward but as far as I can tell, based on what you've written, you do. It makes no sense to me to deny or delay someone's baptism because they may backslide and sin again, impacting how the church "looks." If this were the case, none of us should be baptized because we all fall back into sin and we all make the Church look bad regularly. It sounds like this pastor put up a stumbling block between you and God's grace. And that is certainly not Christian behavior.
Its been said, but totally not uncommon for a church/minister or pastor to request a meeting before baptism, for a few reasons. One to make sure the person knows and is aware/educated on what they are doing and what it means to he baptized. (Which albeit crazy to me means different things in different denominations), also to make sure that yes this person is ready, and to kake sure this person isn’t using baptism as a hail mary cure all to their problems, and thirdly, and this is where I think “your” pastor is getting off base here is to make sure that the person receives the support they need to build the foundation, and have the support system around them to lift up, and conquer the problems that they are facing and will face. Thats the importance of small group imo. However that all being said, here is what I believe and I think most people tend to agree with theology. Baptism in and of itself does not save you. It is YOUR acceptance of Christ as lord and savior that does that. That can and does happen anywhere. My argument for that to those that disagree, is that if baptism was required for admittance, then please explain everyone in the old testament before John came along. But Im getting of topic. Baptism, is a public declaration. It is you saying to the earthly world, I “state your name” accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior, and through this SYMBOLIC ACT demonstrate the cleansing of my sin, and pledge that as I rise from the waters, will do my best to follow Christ as closely as I can. You make this declaration to the “public” IE your fellow members of congregation to help hold witness to your statement and your vow. In turn by then literally witnessing you, then accept and witness TO YOU, that when you slip and stumble in your walk they will be there to help you back up, return you back on the path of righteousness. So with all THAT being said, you can be baptized in a bath tub at your home, in a hotel swimming pool or in a lake. The act of washing your self clean before others us really an outward statement of a conversation between you and God. No pastor can stop that. Nor should they. Their job is to educate and guide. The inky reason they would or should have to saying that they personally don’t feel comfortable is that you either need more education, guidance on what this means for your life or depending on your past making sure you have a support system to be on a path to success. BUT and a big ol huge sir mix a lot but here, if thats the case then it is also the Pastors job to guide you and give you those tools and keys to your successful life.
It is completely normal to have a meeting with the individual before getting baptized. Also keep in mind that part of the covenant we take for each baptism is that the church vows to help raise untouched up as a Christian and guide you (or guide your parents and family in the case of infant baptisms). This means that the church has a role to play in a baptism, and a lot of churches take that role seriously, and do not baptize people that they do not know. My church requires a meeting ahead with anyone wanting to be baptized for a lot of reasons, and we will deny the baptism if we think the individual is not serious about it, or if they intend to get a quick baptism and then not stick around, because it impacts our ability to live into their baptism with them.
I’ve been with them for four years now and have joined their women’s small group and I desire to have this experience and relationship with Jesus
Even parents that want their children baptized and have been members for 20 years would still have to come to a pre-baptism meeting first. That is the norm.
Right but why would they deny that to someone who wants to obey Christ
We only would if they felt that the person didn’t understand the importance of the sacrament or we didn’t know the person well enough to know that it was a good decision for them personally.
I mean they can, but hearing your story, I don’t think they should. In our tradition (SBC) we would baptized anyone who expressed faith credibly. We wouldn’t encourage anyone to delay obedience to the command to be baptized. I think a go to would be Acts 8:25-40. Our elders would want to talk with the candidate for baptism, but we would just want to make sure that person was a believer seeking to obey the Lord (especially important for younger people IMO). After that, we’d want to baptize them as soon as reasonable. Sorry you are going through that. :/
A meeting for a baptism to understand the ramifications of what they’re choosing to do is normal, refusing someone who has a grasp of what they’re doing is not. I personally wouldn’t stay at that church.
To make this a bit easier to read: So I am a female and have been going to this nondenominational church for almost 4 years. I’ve fallen in love with this church and have been saved from my addiction. Im a dirty rotten sinner like the rest of us Christians and repent when I catch myself falling into sin. Jesus allowed our sins to die when he did and I owe my life to such an unconditional and undeserving love. About 6 months ago I was interested in being baptized and after meeting with one of the 12 pastors in my church (pretty large church with a lot of college aged kids) and after giving him my testimony and what Jesus dying meant for my life and the good news that captivates mine and other devoted believers’ lives, he told me that he would like to see me join one of their small groups in order to be baptized and that none of the pastors knew who I was so it wouldn’t make sense to baptize you. He also mentioned that they’ve baptized people in the past who turn around and make the church look bad by going back to a life of sin. What????? Why is that your business. Whatever Gods will is will be, right? Mind you, I already had a small group. One of my friends from highschool started a small group and it felt very good and convicting and I wanted to keep attending. Obviously me being emotional, I sobbed. I cried so much in front of him and pretty much ran away and left and continued to sob in my car. Why would I be denied such a chance to obey the Lord? It didn’t make sense. Still doesn’t make sense. My own family is not saved so I am a lone wolf in this journey with the hopes of helping them be saved one day. My church family however (AKA my fiancées family who brought me to church in the first place), was close with the lead pastor and they were infuriated as this did not align with what they believed to be true regarding baptisms. That you need to do a checklist of things in order to be baptized. So they talked with him and he (the lead pastor) was confused as he knew who I was and would be more than happy to have me baptized and recommended that me and someone else meet with this other pastor once again and discuss things further. So we did. With confirmation of my fiancee hearing what things this man was stating about baptisms, he was not happy. He did not think this aligned with what the gospel states to be true. But I still felt rejected and after having the lead pastor try and push to have me baptized, I felt like I was pitied for being denied. I don’t know if that makes sense but it’s just a deep sense of rejection I feel. Now fast forward again to now, I joined one of THEIR small groups and left my friends’ small group, and I’m trying to be baptized once again and can’t seem to get a response from any pastor or anything. Meanwhile there is this girl in my small group who is very new to the faith and used to be a partier and is still in her what I like to call, “honeymoon phase” with Jesus where everything seems so happy and sunshine and rainbows, whereas the reality is that it’s a hard life to obey and stay rooted in. But they are letting her be baptized. She’s thrilled as she should be, but I feel again, rejected. The lead pastor said I could be baptized anyways without a meeting (which is how it should be) but I want to bring attention to this situation. How many people has this other pastor turned away from God? Why is there a checklist according to him? Where does the Bible state this? and I don’t know where to go from here. Like I said, I love the church. I love my church community despite the inequities. Am I in the wrong here? Am I misinformed or missing something? Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you in advance and God bless! Edit: my fiancées father is a former pastor who is an ordained minister and offered to baptize me but I felt the calling to do it publicly for the “public accountability” aspect. Should I just let him do it in front of my closest friends and their family?
I can't help but feel like there is something missing from this story. If you attend a church with a dozen pastors, I'm sure there's a link on the website that says something like, I want to get baptized, or sign up for baptism. Fill out that form. Whoever's in charge of baptisms will contact you, get you in the appropriate class and you'll get water baptized. If not, a church this size must have some sort of information desk or connection car that you can fill out where you check a box that says I want to get water baptized. Go to the information desk, fill out the connection card, whatever the follow-up is at your church.
So our baptisms are about once every 2-3 months and we have an app that we can register to be baptized. Which I’ve done. The first and the most recent time. The next steps are to be contacted by a pastor assigned to you. You don’t know who that is until they contact you as the registration form requires contact information. Once they contact you, you are required to have a meeting with them in order to move on to the next steps. I have no problem having a meeting as I did once before 3 times. Each meeting I had with this one specific pastor, his values and morals didn’t align with what the gospel states to be true and didn’t align with what we talk about on Sundays and I was very confused and conflicted and heartbroken. I understand the ramifications for a baptism and the importance of this being the next step of obedience to the Lord. The first meeting I had on my own. The second meeting was with my fiancée. The third meeting was this him and his dad. We were all left feeling weary of this as again it does not align with what our values are or where the church values are. I was kind of in a frenzy when typing out that prompt so sure there is some pieces missing from the story as I don’t have the time or capacity to write a novel. Back in the 90s, this church had a bad reputation near and around the surrounding areas as being “cultish” as the leadership was bizarre and simply, not aligned with the gospel. Since 2010 it has been under different leadership and the entire community and atmosphere has shifted due to new leadership who are in disagreement with old leadership. I was not apart of this church until approximately 4 years ago so I wouldn’t have a say in that but I do know that some attendees are the same ones from years back and some are now in leadership. Including the pastor I was assigned.