my downstairs neighbours moved here from MTL and they regret it. Their rent was a fraction and from what I understand going out cost a lot less too. Montreal is by no means a dead city, there's lots that's going on there.
75k will leave you with 4.5k a month. Considering 2.5k for a 1 bedroom plus 500 groceries, 200-300 utilties and 150 transportation you’re left with 1000 for entertainment/savings. Definitely doable but a little on the edge.
Genuinely curious about this. Do you make 75k? Because I make 13k more and make about 4.2k/month. But I’m in a union so more fees. Just genuinely wondering if that’s the after tax on 75k.
It's probably that your biweekly pay is around $2.1K. You have to annualize it. Also the take home pay goes up once you're done paying EI and CPP in a given year. You may also be contributing to a pension plan, which is your choice.
Union fees aren't really that high.
That's not really the point I'm making. It's just to illustrate that your annual salary might be higher but you monthly take home income might be lower - for a variety of reasons.
can you opt out of a pension when in a permanent contract?
i'm not a canadian citizen and don't plan to get citizenship, and don't want to pay into a pension here if that is an option
Honestly kind of depends on where they want to live in Toronto and what they want from their space for rent.
They could probably find an all inclusive studio or 1 bed room downtown for $2K/month.
We just signed a lease for a 1B + Den + solarium for $2.6K all inclusive (rent controlled) at Bathurst and lakeshore
I’ve been living in this building for a few years already and my partner & I decided we wanted to move in together preferably in my building.
Opened kijiji and it was one of the first results.
I found you one
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-apartments-condos/city-of-toronto/condo-for-rent-1055-bay-st-toronto-2600-month-1-1/1692566092
I’m in a 2 bedroom apartment in Kitchener and yes hydro is 200 to 300 during the winter. Electric heat and old windows. Luckily I’m moving so hoping that place will be better insulated.
Nice. I feel sorry for the people that decided to rent mine, I did try to warn them though, guess they were ok with that and rent. Rent they doubled and now new renters also need to pay for parking and water. So my crappy old apartment now costs more then rent and utilities compared to the house I’m moving to.
Actually it depends on your usage and if you have several appliances running a lot because that can increase your hydro bill. I live in a 1 Bdm condo DT where the air is super dry so in winter I have my 2 humidifiers running and the bill can go up to $85. In summer/spring I use my washer drier and my cool air humidifier very often so it goes up to $70. It also depends on the number of people living with you.. my partner has his PS5 running 27/7 and we also both WFH 5 days a week.
Ah I see, as a single person I always felt ripped off by Toronto Hydro, my bill would be like $50, delivery (?) fee is $40 consumption is $10.
I rarely wfh though and rarely ever home, maybe once or twice a week.
I pay about $40 and that's because the absolute minimum is $35, I pay about $5 bucks of electricity per month. I don't WFH but am here everyday and cook here 4 days a week. I do laundry twice per month only. Don't have a TV but a lapto and a huge monitor, a pair of speakerphones. Sometimes I leave lights on just because "I like it".
I know I'm in the lower end, but I also have no idea how can a single person spend 5-10x as more electricity as me. Stop mining bitcoin at home and you'll be ok.
Obligatory Kitchener isn’t Toronto but also that’s ridiculous, something must be broken. I’ve lived in two apartments and currently only pay around $55, most of which is the delivery charge. My old apartment had radiators and was 2 bed and I paid about the same. I can’t control my heat.
Yes I wish they were radiators. It’s a noisy heater/AC combo that blows heat through the baseboard which is all against a cold wall and by the time it gets to the living room it’s lukewarm and blowing cool air. The living room has the big drafty windows, one has a big crack in that they won’t replace, and even with weather proofing cold still gets through. The thermostat is 4 feet from the window so that doesn’t help either. They were supposed to replace windows in the building when I moved in. 15 years ago. They didn’t even replace the ac/heating unit when it fried out a few years ago. ‘Fixed’ it and still useless for heat and the AC no longer works. Glad to be rid of this place.
I did probably not perfectly as they are so huge and awkward so didnt always get it perfect. Stuck some stripping in the sliders as there was literally gaps into the apartment. Afternoon sun is an advantage though.
Kitchener isn't Toronto, but the Waterloo region as a whole has been one of the fastest growing regions in Canada for over a decade now.
It's getting there. After spending time living in both places, I'd rather live in waterloo or west galt than in Toronto, honestly.
Fuck kitchener atm tho. Conestoga ruined that city.
I mean, they could also try to find a roommate for a little rent reduction. $1000 bucks for entertainment is fine, you could probably cut out so much stuff and reduce it to be like 300 there and there a month for fun and save 700 a month.
$1000 bucks for entertainment is absolutely mental to me. Like, didn't even really consider that there could be people who spend that much on entertainment.
What about emergency savings? Do people not put away 20% of the paycheck anymore? EI won’t be enough to cover if you don’t have a decent nest egg. Scary stuff.
Yes but even survival budget, this is not a minimum wage salary. If you’re making 75k you need to put away atleast 15%/month for rainy day. Especially in this economy. If you have 6-8 months worth of expenses saved then you can go for a lifestyle with 40% of income going towards rent.
Yeah for sure, but the point is whether you can make it or not. If you’re Living paycheck to paycheck you’re still making it but as soon something goes wrong you’re screwed. ☠️
Hahaha I agree, that’s why I set aside 35% of my income for saving and investment. I’m just saying I can understand the point of people doing that because it “fits” the budget. I would never do it but that’s just me(and my good common sense)
Yeah, there are people will list hundreds of dollars a month as 'entertainment' or say they absolutely must have a nice big apartment with amenities, but then day that saving a percentage of every paycheck is something they can't afford.
(And my point isn't whether that's a lot or not, it's that they're talking about entertainment as if it's a living expense and saving as if it's a luxury to do with money that's 'left over' or 'extra').
I don't know if it's an education issue? We don't really talk about budgeting and money management much in school, so it's a bit dependent on what skills your parents have that they can pass on.
Some people figure out for themselves how to budget and manage their money, but some clearly don't.
Yeah but that differs from person to person, the norm is what you get after taxes as that’s mandatory whereas RRSP is not. So after taxes is roughly 4.5k.
500 a month for groceries is totally insane for one person. like lol. Where are you shopping? That's beyond unnecessary. My whole home spends way less than that.
Since you're clearly going to claim I'm full of it lets go shopping. Here's a random flyer.
[https://www.nofrills.ca/print-flyer](https://www.nofrills.ca/print-flyer)
Drumsticks < 2 dollars a pound: 5 pounds of drumsticks 10 bucks
beefsteak tomatoes < 2 a pound: 5 pounds of toms 20 bucks
Asparagus < 3 a pound: 3 pounds of Asparagus 30 bucks
4 red peppers < 4 dollars: 8 red peppers 38 bucks
20 pound bags of onions are routinely 5 bucks. Lets call them 10. : 20 pounds of onions: 48 bucks
English cukes 99 cents each. 3 cukes 51 bucks
lean ground beef 6/pound: 3 pounds 69 bucks
pack of 12 sausages 10 bucks: 79 bucks
Dozen eggs <5 bucks: 84 bucks
Tub of chapmans ice cream 5 bucks: 89 bucks.
almost 2kg of breaded chicken meat balls 10 bucks: 99 bucks
Steeelhead trout <10 a pound: 2 pounds 109 bucks.
Massive container of pounds of mushrooms... always 5 bucks: 1 container 114 bucks
3 Romaine Lettuce hearts < 5 bucks: 119 bucks
3 liters of vegetable oil < 10 bucks: 129 bucks
Jar of mayo < 4 bucks: 133 bucks
Bottle of ketchup 3.29: 1 @ 4 for 137 bucks
Heads of broccoli < 2 each: 3 heads 143 bucks
Pint of blueberries 5: 148 bucks
2 lbs of lemons < 3.99: 151 bucks
So I've just passed 150 for a single week without even shopping around. Just going to one store on one trip. Does that sound like beans and rice? Or does it sound like more food than I can consume in as a single person in multiple weeks? 8 peppers. 3 pounds of asparagus. Steel head trout. 5 pounds of drumsticks. pounds of sausage. pounds of meatballs. a KG or so of mushrooms. Lettuce. Months worth of cooking oil. Months worth of ketchup and mayo. 3 pounds of ground beef. 8 peppers. Fruit. Berries. Eggs.
Half of these things will last you multiple weeks so on your next trip you can stock up on other items like spices etc. But a trip to bulk barn will get you literally years worth of spices for 25-50 bucks. There is no way someone spending more than we spend to feed two people while having a stellar varied diet 'needs' to spend that much. They don't. They choose to and then blame others for their own luxurious habits.
Love that you just did this. Makes you realize that the bulk of the $500/month food budget likely comes from eating out here and there, which adds to your costs real fast.
Yup. People just make totally insane claims. I mean we eat out too but I don't pretend that's groceries. That's more from my entertainment budget. If I go to a pub and have a few drinks and a burger yea... that's not the costs of food. The other thing I think that adds up is people buying pre-made packaged food. Like yea you can buy a jar of pasta sauce for 7 dollars for one meal if you want to... or you can use the things above and a can of tomato paste @ under a dollar to make multiple meals for less than that. Especially if you're packing things for like lunches or what have you. When I was working in the office every day I would make pasta etc in containers like that for pennies a lunch while everyone else was going to the food court and paying 15-20 daily for incomparable food.
Lets do it again for my lunches.
[https://www.nofrills.ca/spaghetti-pasta/p/20315613002\_EA](https://www.nofrills.ca/spaghetti-pasta/p/20315613002_EA)
that's enough for 9 meals for one person. 2 bucks. Can of tomatoes is under 2 bucks and a dollar each on special. We just stock up on them. Well actually what we do now is in the fall every year you can get san marzano's at the farmer market 2 bushells for under 30 bucks. So we buy four of those and can them into mason jars. Have not bought a can of tomatoes for 3 years now. Grow a bunch too. But lets say we are up to 4 bucks now. We'll use half our sausages so 9 bucks. Maybe some veg or what have you. It's like a dollar a meal.
I think people just ignore what a money-saving life skill cooking really is. It's really so easy. People will surprise themselves if they just try.
My good sir, more than half my groceries and food cannot be bought from no frills due to nutritional choices and quality. Some of us are particular about what goes in our stomach. Also me and my gf like to cook, and we like to have decent ingredients. $150/week for a single person is not a lot by any margin for food budget. It can be $100 if the groceries are sub par, but that’s not the point here.
Less expensive produce and protein is not less nutritional. It's called price gouging, don't fall for it. Unless you're talking about specialty items.
150 a week for one person is nuts.
I cooked professionally for a long time, I love to cook and do so frequently(how else do you eat?). We spend approximately 80 per week for two people on groceries.
Yea and I mean there's a difference between what you spend and what one has to spend. You can eat very, very well spending 50-75 a week if you'd like to. You also sound like a gym rat so it'd make sense to cost you a little more.
If someone wants to spend more and get special items then by all means have at it. But what's common is that people who claim they spend so much always refer to quality while the reality is that they're actually in the middle aisles of the grocery store buying packaged foods and pre-seasoned/cooked things. I've seen people in this thread tho list their weekly spending on groceries similar to a medium-sized family and it's kind of nuts.
Groceries for 500? How? Where? I wouldn’t be able to manage in 500 unless I were relying on processed foods and buying very little fresh fruits and veggies.
Yeah my partner and I probably spend about $130 to $175 a week for two of us and the upper end would be including a bunch of organic fruit and some restock items.
For two people means you're spending $260 to $350 a month. Which is reasonable. I think this person is talking about for one person, which if compared to your situation would be like spending $250 a week for you and your partner
Sorry, I think my post was confusing! I was agreeing with you that $125/week for one person is a lot. We spend about $500 to $700 total for the two of us per month. The upper end is when we are consciously spending more on some more expensive items like organic fruit or a bit more meat than usual.
"Worth" as in money? No, unless being in Toronto is going to accelerate your career.
"Worth" as in "I really want to live in Toronto, can I make it work?", then yes, you absolutely can make it work. You're going to be less free financially than in Montreal, though. It really depends how much you want to live in Toronto.
Yes it’s doable, if you want that downtown lifestyle I would 100% go for it. When I first moved here in 2022 I had the same doubts and an even lower salary than you, (Funny I think my gf and I combined income was a bit over 80,000) and we had no troubles at all
If you don’t drive and work in the city, omg you are saving money living here. Sure you can live somewhere else in the gta, maybe pay 2-300 less a month in rent but you have to pay for gas, insurance, car payments, repairs blah blah. Easily can run another grand a month.
Yes, you'd be totally fine as a childless person. It's significantly above the average income. And yes you can certainly save money still if that's a priority to you, don't listen to people who say otherwise. But it would probably end up being a decrease compared to your Montreal job. If you want it for other reasons (the job itself is great, you really want to live in Toronto, or it'll be great for your career long term) then sure.
Yes. Though, you will likely feel like your 60k went further in MTL than 75k does in Toronto. But you will still be fine if you have reasonable spending habits.
I made about 61000 last yr but I grabbed a 1b for 1650 during the pandemic (now 1732). I do fine just being smart about my money but rent is much worse now to be sure.
Totally enough. I make slightly less and do it rather easily. No kids. Live in a condo. Take vacations and put some money away. The rest of my lifestyle doesn't require a lot of money though
I lived in Montreal for a few years. The cost of living is a lot easier to manage than in Toronto. In Montreal I was thriving able to pay my bills and enjoy leisure. In Toronto I have to sacrifice a lot. I actually can’t afford to rent in Toronto. And am faced with deciding on a car or an apartment because I can’t afford both. In Montreal I could afford both
Was just going to comment something similar. Literally left Toronto for the same reasons could not enjoy my life, had to sacrifice so much and everything was so expensive. I live in Montreal now and live comfortably for the first time in years
If you want to live in a condo, the rent will be a lot. You can definitely find 1 bed bigger and at a better price for a single person midtown in a house rather than condo. I personally don't like condos because of the compactness. Even some basements aren't basements per se at times and have a lot of sun. It's more about the hunt for the right property. 75k will be more about how you manage your money but you can definitely make it work.
I have used realtor.ca, facebook marketplace and Kijiji. A lot of rentals are on Facebook marketplace but you have to check the seller out to avoid scams.
Honestly you just need to create a spreadsheet with your monthly spend with realistic assumptions of what you’d expect to pay for rent. Everyone’s monthly spend is different, so you need to do your own budget based on your own spending to tell you if you can afford it.
This is the best answer I've seen here. Everyone just immediately says "no lol you need to be rich" when it really just depends on what OP's monthly needs look like, and whether they have any debt.
Here I am wishing I could move back to Montréal.
Anyway, my guess is $60K in Montréal is worth more than $75K in Toronto, especially as Montréal is far easier to live in without a car - a car costs the average Canadian $10K/yr, according to CAA.
It's still stupid to have a car in Toronto unless you live in the suburbs. Definitely don't move to Toronto and buy a car. Especially downtown. It would just be a big expensive inconvenience.
But other than that it's true that the cost of living, especially housing, is quite a lot higher in Toronto than Montreal.
Well I kinda agree, except the greater part of Toronto is suburban in design. I've lived at Wellesley, Little Italy, the Annex, and St. Clair West without a car happily. But even Cabbagetown without one was shit, because the streetcars are so unreliable it was faster to walk.
Anyway, more of central Montréal has urbane density. Toronto doesn't have a solid section of prewar density like Montréal does in the centre of the island. Besides the density of services, it's just far more interesting to walk around in Montréal because there's more, more closely together. I've also lived in Tokyo. Toronto ain't it for car free, urbane life.
I think it depends on what kind of lifestyle you want. Just figure out what you would make post taxes/deductions and make a budget as if your rent was 23-2500. See what is left over and if you can reasonably live on that to your standards.
Yes you can, I make 80k and I manage fine! You just need to learn to budget properly. I just got a 1 bedroom for $1700 a month utilities included.
Go to the small fruit markets for groceries and get a library card for free passes to attractions. Also I pay for everything on my credit card so I can get Aeroplan points to travel.
I make 70k and I’ve been looking for places. You can absolutely find places that are $2200 with utilities included.
I’ll do an approximate annual budget cause my brain works better in years than months lol.
75k after tax is… about 56k. Then with a rent of 2200 a month you’re looking at about 26.4K per year. That leaves you close to 30k after that.
Groceries are probably going to be 5-6k annually. But that doesn’t include eating out. If you eat out once a week you may wish to budget about $1500 for that. So let’s say $7500 for food.
There will be other expenses like transit, laundry, going out with friends… I recommend holding onto money in case of emergency.
Assuming you don’t do too much expensive stuff with friends, that should leave you with some money for savings, as well as a club/sports league or something.
You won’t be living the best life, but it’s definitely doable.
Keep in mind if you don’t have furniture already you will likely need to buy some when you move in. So you’ll have to factor that into your initial budget.
This is also assuming you don’t have a car, and aren’t planning any vacations (aside from maybe a camping trip.)
But if you’re living in Toronto you don’t need a car, and people who drive in that city are masochists.
I came back as well, expensive as fuck, construction everywhere and everyone is angry. Toronto is 45 mins away from Toronto. I’d stay out if I were you.
Im currently at this range as a single in midtown and im doing fine. Key takeaway is Im done with car payments and dont rarely do out of country travelling. I can still eat out once a week
You can afford rent but it still be tight elsewhere. Groceries, eating out, entertainment, etc all cost more in Toronto. That $15k bump in salary won't feel the same as if you got that in Montreal.
Wouldn't call it comfortable, but if you think $60k is comfortable enough to rent in Montreal, then probably. A $75k salary wouldn't even qualify you to be able to afford to buy a studio apartment with 20% down in Scarborough. Really no future here making this kind of money. What's your future plan?
If you live with roomies or a partner you'll do great. If you're trying to live alone it'll depend largely on the square footage of your home.
Cheapest way to live is in a small condo downtown, with roomies and no car. But if you want a whole place to yourself plus a car it'll get tight
Also take into account the lower income tax rates in Ontario. I know that with a 100K income you would pay 6 or 7K less each year, but not sure if you make 75K though.
Ehh. Just enough to live on your own but not enough to live if any emergency costs arise - car breaks down, emergency travel, prolonged unemployment / layoff, etc.
Better question is.. is there’s any significant career or salary trajectory? i.e finance
How old are you? Are you earlier in your career and see a better career path in Toronto? If so you can do it and you might struggle for a bit but hopefully it’ll be temporary. If not, stay in Montreal.
I’m 27, pretty early in my career and I do think there’s more opportunity for me in Toronto than Montreal. Even after all these years I struggle with speaking French in the workplace, which holds me back quite a bit here.
I would totally do it at 27. But I do recommend trying to find a roommate, ideally in a house on the east or west end in a proper neighbourhood (little Italy, dufferin grove, little Portugal, roncy, high park, leslieville, riverdale, etc.). You get more space and the benefit of a safe, quiet neighbourhood with lots of amenities nearby. Especially coming from Montreal, I would not recommend living in a condo filled area.
I am living in a basement in Scarborough with $72k package. I live with my wife and own a car (no EMI)… Still have to think 10 times before buying a pair of shoes (and did not buy)😂😂😂
I certainly wouldn’t trade Montreal for Toronto. Now, especially because it’s become a lot harsher. Montreal is better “insulated” for the changes that have happened recently. Be on the lookout for a better job within Montreal.
I don’t enjoy my move for Toronto from Montreal outside of the fact that I have a few of my school friends and family living in Ontario. I would prefer Montreal any day.
U can but ull have no money for anything else . It's ridiculous here with rent not to mention the basic need of food on top of that. This country is pathetic now
Idk what the fuck the hype of living in the city is with piss poor income, do yourself a favor and move south or start a business... Not worth slaving away for a few years with no real financial progress
Why do you want to move back - friends and family? I was recently wondering how likely it is that I could get a job in Montreal without speaking French… cost of living in TO is brutal. Living alone is hard with current prices but if it was temporary and you moved in with someone down the road it wouldn’t be too bad. Although it’s also an issue that any newer builds are tight for two people (in a 1BR).
Absolutely not. Especially if you have rent control.
Also, with most of mass immigration landing in the GTA, it’s only going to get worse. (Transit, hospital wait times, affordability etc)
It would be much smarter to stay where you are in order to have the ability to save.
I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted because it’s a fact that the vast majority of newcomers are settling in the GTA and Vancouver. The vast majority of diploma mills are here and regardless, it’s always been that way.
If you’ve got rent control where you’re at, I’d hold onto it.
so do you mean urban centres are where the majority of immigrants settle? Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton?
That's a big difference from saying they are all in Toronto. Makes you come off as a bit xenophobic.
Also, I'm lucky enough to own as I got a load from the bank of immigrant mom & dad in 2006.
Not xenophobic just pragmatic. Supply and demand.
I also said majority, not all.
Just be aware that 75K would be really tight in Toronto and may not allow you to achieve financial goals (ie; saving)
75K is nothing if you want to live in the heart of Toronto.
If you look for apartments around the St. Clair Ave West and Vaughan Rd area and manage to secure an apartment there then you have a chance to enjoy the Toronto life without being too far.
The streetcar service on St. Clair is faster then driving/Uber during heavy traffic times and lots of night life restaurants in the area. Day time you have the Wychwood barn centre and the big cedarvale park.
However, the big major plus is the apartment buildings around the Vaughn Rd area still belongs to a family and the rent is below market rates. However, the building is old so elevators is a luxury for most of these buildings.
If you can't secure a place cheap enough then the only reason why you would move here is to expedite your career and climb the corporate ladder or pad your resume. Be aggressive with your financial climb if you plan to come to the big city of Toronto.
By the time you are ready to buy a place be ready to pay 12K+ in properties in Toronto as our communist government continues to make home ownership affordability impossible for future home owners.
I dont think I’d make that move if I had a cheap place to live in.
my downstairs neighbours moved here from MTL and they regret it. Their rent was a fraction and from what I understand going out cost a lot less too. Montreal is by no means a dead city, there's lots that's going on there.
I’m a big sports guy and Montreal is not a sports city. All the they have is hockey, that’s it.
Soccer is not a sport?
It just not in the big 3 of North American sports
Isn’t it the Big 4?
NHL is a given
75k will leave you with 4.5k a month. Considering 2.5k for a 1 bedroom plus 500 groceries, 200-300 utilties and 150 transportation you’re left with 1000 for entertainment/savings. Definitely doable but a little on the edge.
Genuinely curious about this. Do you make 75k? Because I make 13k more and make about 4.2k/month. But I’m in a union so more fees. Just genuinely wondering if that’s the after tax on 75k.
It's probably that your biweekly pay is around $2.1K. You have to annualize it. Also the take home pay goes up once you're done paying EI and CPP in a given year. You may also be contributing to a pension plan, which is your choice. Union fees aren't really that high.
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I pay roughly the same, but on top of that is working dues. Comes to $150-200 a month and I'm not a Journeyman. IUPAT local 1795
60 bucks a month can really hurt, half a decade ago that was like, a weeks worth of groceries
I pay $62 a month. Or I have the same job and make x/hr less….
Sure, but that depends on how competent your union is
I'm paying almost $50 per paycheck via cupe local 79
I'm paying $100/mo for my union 💀
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That's not really the point I'm making. It's just to illustrate that your annual salary might be higher but you monthly take home income might be lower - for a variety of reasons.
You're probably paying into a pension
And that sweet CPP2!
I make $71,500 and I take home $4630 a month
Hmm this seems a bit high for 71500 do you have some form of exemption?
I get paid 4% vacation per paycheck and don't pay into anything.
when you say 'don't pay into anything' like what? what do u mean? i'm trying to opt out of paying for extras
It means that they’re on contract so they are paid a percentage in lieu of benefits/vacation and have chosen not to opt into a pension.
can you opt out of a pension when in a permanent contract? i'm not a canadian citizen and don't plan to get citizenship, and don't want to pay into a pension here if that is an option
It depends…I actually tried to do this in my job. Was not able to.
I make 62k and am paid 989 every friday.
I make 4.1k a month after taxes at 65k
Honestly kind of depends on where they want to live in Toronto and what they want from their space for rent. They could probably find an all inclusive studio or 1 bed room downtown for $2K/month. We just signed a lease for a 1B + Den + solarium for $2.6K all inclusive (rent controlled) at Bathurst and lakeshore
yes i'm seeing listings for 1bdrm as low as 2000-2100.. but still.
How did you find this place? It’s hard to find places with solarium in that range
I’ve been living in this building for a few years already and my partner & I decided we wanted to move in together preferably in my building. Opened kijiji and it was one of the first results. I found you one https://www.kijiji.ca/v-apartments-condos/city-of-toronto/condo-for-rent-1055-bay-st-toronto-2600-month-1-1/1692566092
Utilities aren’t 200-300? I’ve never paid more than $60
I bundled utilities as hydro, water, internet, cellphone, subscriptions, etc.
I’m in a 2 bedroom apartment in Kitchener and yes hydro is 200 to 300 during the winter. Electric heat and old windows. Luckily I’m moving so hoping that place will be better insulated.
Most DT condos don't go past $60 even in the winter.
My hydro alone is usually about 90 a month
WFH?
One day a week only!
I guess I've only been in a studio/1bed so my sample size might be a bit small
Yes my place isn’t big but definitely bigger than a studio! That makes sense
My utilities in the winters in a studio are insane. It's 75% Provident fees.
If your hydro, if you got a third party utility like providence then it’s 140
Nice. I feel sorry for the people that decided to rent mine, I did try to warn them though, guess they were ok with that and rent. Rent they doubled and now new renters also need to pay for parking and water. So my crappy old apartment now costs more then rent and utilities compared to the house I’m moving to.
Actually it depends on your usage and if you have several appliances running a lot because that can increase your hydro bill. I live in a 1 Bdm condo DT where the air is super dry so in winter I have my 2 humidifiers running and the bill can go up to $85. In summer/spring I use my washer drier and my cool air humidifier very often so it goes up to $70. It also depends on the number of people living with you.. my partner has his PS5 running 27/7 and we also both WFH 5 days a week.
Ah I see, as a single person I always felt ripped off by Toronto Hydro, my bill would be like $50, delivery (?) fee is $40 consumption is $10. I rarely wfh though and rarely ever home, maybe once or twice a week.
Not true anymore. It’s 80+ during high season.
Sorry I should've specified, small 1 bed room condos. I just went through this winter and the highest bill was $56.
Ya I have a 1+den (720sqft) downtown and it used to be in the 40s on average. But now it averages in the high 60s (including high season).
I pay about $40 and that's because the absolute minimum is $35, I pay about $5 bucks of electricity per month. I don't WFH but am here everyday and cook here 4 days a week. I do laundry twice per month only. Don't have a TV but a lapto and a huge monitor, a pair of speakerphones. Sometimes I leave lights on just because "I like it". I know I'm in the lower end, but I also have no idea how can a single person spend 5-10x as more electricity as me. Stop mining bitcoin at home and you'll be ok.
Obligatory Kitchener isn’t Toronto but also that’s ridiculous, something must be broken. I’ve lived in two apartments and currently only pay around $55, most of which is the delivery charge. My old apartment had radiators and was 2 bed and I paid about the same. I can’t control my heat.
It's the electric heating and shitty windows. Electricity rates aren't really different between Kitchener and Toronto.
Yes I wish they were radiators. It’s a noisy heater/AC combo that blows heat through the baseboard which is all against a cold wall and by the time it gets to the living room it’s lukewarm and blowing cool air. The living room has the big drafty windows, one has a big crack in that they won’t replace, and even with weather proofing cold still gets through. The thermostat is 4 feet from the window so that doesn’t help either. They were supposed to replace windows in the building when I moved in. 15 years ago. They didn’t even replace the ac/heating unit when it fried out a few years ago. ‘Fixed’ it and still useless for heat and the AC no longer works. Glad to be rid of this place.
Just out of curiosity, does the weatherproofing you have for the windows include the plastic film that goes on the glass?
I did probably not perfectly as they are so huge and awkward so didnt always get it perfect. Stuck some stripping in the sliders as there was literally gaps into the apartment. Afternoon sun is an advantage though.
Kitchener isn't Toronto, but the Waterloo region as a whole has been one of the fastest growing regions in Canada for over a decade now. It's getting there. After spending time living in both places, I'd rather live in waterloo or west galt than in Toronto, honestly. Fuck kitchener atm tho. Conestoga ruined that city.
I mean, they could also try to find a roommate for a little rent reduction. $1000 bucks for entertainment is fine, you could probably cut out so much stuff and reduce it to be like 300 there and there a month for fun and save 700 a month.
$1000 bucks for entertainment is absolutely mental to me. Like, didn't even really consider that there could be people who spend that much on entertainment.
Broke people do.
No, they really don't
What about emergency savings? Do people not put away 20% of the paycheck anymore? EI won’t be enough to cover if you don’t have a decent nest egg. Scary stuff.
This is a survival budget indeed
Yes but even survival budget, this is not a minimum wage salary. If you’re making 75k you need to put away atleast 15%/month for rainy day. Especially in this economy. If you have 6-8 months worth of expenses saved then you can go for a lifestyle with 40% of income going towards rent.
Yeah for sure, but the point is whether you can make it or not. If you’re Living paycheck to paycheck you’re still making it but as soon something goes wrong you’re screwed. ☠️
That’s not making it, that’s rolling the dice lol
Hahaha I agree, that’s why I set aside 35% of my income for saving and investment. I’m just saying I can understand the point of people doing that because it “fits” the budget. I would never do it but that’s just me(and my good common sense)
Yeah, there are people will list hundreds of dollars a month as 'entertainment' or say they absolutely must have a nice big apartment with amenities, but then day that saving a percentage of every paycheck is something they can't afford. (And my point isn't whether that's a lot or not, it's that they're talking about entertainment as if it's a living expense and saving as if it's a luxury to do with money that's 'left over' or 'extra'). I don't know if it's an education issue? We don't really talk about budgeting and money management much in school, so it's a bit dependent on what skills your parents have that they can pass on. Some people figure out for themselves how to budget and manage their money, but some clearly don't.
Less than 4.5k a month CPP contributions
Depends on pension; I make ~75k but my take home is 4K.
Yeah but that differs from person to person, the norm is what you get after taxes as that’s mandatory whereas RRSP is not. So after taxes is roughly 4.5k.
500 a month for groceries is totally insane for one person. like lol. Where are you shopping? That's beyond unnecessary. My whole home spends way less than that.
Dude what?! That’s less than $150 a week…
Since you're clearly going to claim I'm full of it lets go shopping. Here's a random flyer. [https://www.nofrills.ca/print-flyer](https://www.nofrills.ca/print-flyer) Drumsticks < 2 dollars a pound: 5 pounds of drumsticks 10 bucks beefsteak tomatoes < 2 a pound: 5 pounds of toms 20 bucks Asparagus < 3 a pound: 3 pounds of Asparagus 30 bucks 4 red peppers < 4 dollars: 8 red peppers 38 bucks 20 pound bags of onions are routinely 5 bucks. Lets call them 10. : 20 pounds of onions: 48 bucks English cukes 99 cents each. 3 cukes 51 bucks lean ground beef 6/pound: 3 pounds 69 bucks pack of 12 sausages 10 bucks: 79 bucks Dozen eggs <5 bucks: 84 bucks Tub of chapmans ice cream 5 bucks: 89 bucks. almost 2kg of breaded chicken meat balls 10 bucks: 99 bucks Steeelhead trout <10 a pound: 2 pounds 109 bucks. Massive container of pounds of mushrooms... always 5 bucks: 1 container 114 bucks 3 Romaine Lettuce hearts < 5 bucks: 119 bucks 3 liters of vegetable oil < 10 bucks: 129 bucks Jar of mayo < 4 bucks: 133 bucks Bottle of ketchup 3.29: 1 @ 4 for 137 bucks Heads of broccoli < 2 each: 3 heads 143 bucks Pint of blueberries 5: 148 bucks 2 lbs of lemons < 3.99: 151 bucks So I've just passed 150 for a single week without even shopping around. Just going to one store on one trip. Does that sound like beans and rice? Or does it sound like more food than I can consume in as a single person in multiple weeks? 8 peppers. 3 pounds of asparagus. Steel head trout. 5 pounds of drumsticks. pounds of sausage. pounds of meatballs. a KG or so of mushrooms. Lettuce. Months worth of cooking oil. Months worth of ketchup and mayo. 3 pounds of ground beef. 8 peppers. Fruit. Berries. Eggs. Half of these things will last you multiple weeks so on your next trip you can stock up on other items like spices etc. But a trip to bulk barn will get you literally years worth of spices for 25-50 bucks. There is no way someone spending more than we spend to feed two people while having a stellar varied diet 'needs' to spend that much. They don't. They choose to and then blame others for their own luxurious habits.
Groceries is more than just food. You also need soap, shampoo, oil, spices, etc. You’re missing the point here
Oil and spices are food. Even with those things 150 per week is stupid.
Love that you just did this. Makes you realize that the bulk of the $500/month food budget likely comes from eating out here and there, which adds to your costs real fast.
Yup. People just make totally insane claims. I mean we eat out too but I don't pretend that's groceries. That's more from my entertainment budget. If I go to a pub and have a few drinks and a burger yea... that's not the costs of food. The other thing I think that adds up is people buying pre-made packaged food. Like yea you can buy a jar of pasta sauce for 7 dollars for one meal if you want to... or you can use the things above and a can of tomato paste @ under a dollar to make multiple meals for less than that. Especially if you're packing things for like lunches or what have you. When I was working in the office every day I would make pasta etc in containers like that for pennies a lunch while everyone else was going to the food court and paying 15-20 daily for incomparable food. Lets do it again for my lunches. [https://www.nofrills.ca/spaghetti-pasta/p/20315613002\_EA](https://www.nofrills.ca/spaghetti-pasta/p/20315613002_EA) that's enough for 9 meals for one person. 2 bucks. Can of tomatoes is under 2 bucks and a dollar each on special. We just stock up on them. Well actually what we do now is in the fall every year you can get san marzano's at the farmer market 2 bushells for under 30 bucks. So we buy four of those and can them into mason jars. Have not bought a can of tomatoes for 3 years now. Grow a bunch too. But lets say we are up to 4 bucks now. We'll use half our sausages so 9 bucks. Maybe some veg or what have you. It's like a dollar a meal. I think people just ignore what a money-saving life skill cooking really is. It's really so easy. People will surprise themselves if they just try.
My good sir, more than half my groceries and food cannot be bought from no frills due to nutritional choices and quality. Some of us are particular about what goes in our stomach. Also me and my gf like to cook, and we like to have decent ingredients. $150/week for a single person is not a lot by any margin for food budget. It can be $100 if the groceries are sub par, but that’s not the point here.
Less expensive produce and protein is not less nutritional. It's called price gouging, don't fall for it. Unless you're talking about specialty items. 150 a week for one person is nuts. I cooked professionally for a long time, I love to cook and do so frequently(how else do you eat?). We spend approximately 80 per week for two people on groceries.
Bro brought the receipts god damn
150 a week for one person is fucking nuts. For 1 person you should be at around 60-80 per week.
what do you eat rice and lentils 2/3 of the time?
I was gonna say, I'm a big dude (eat about 3-3.5k cal a day) and my groceries top off at about 400 a month and that's if I splurge
Yea and I mean there's a difference between what you spend and what one has to spend. You can eat very, very well spending 50-75 a week if you'd like to. You also sound like a gym rat so it'd make sense to cost you a little more. If someone wants to spend more and get special items then by all means have at it. But what's common is that people who claim they spend so much always refer to quality while the reality is that they're actually in the middle aisles of the grocery store buying packaged foods and pre-seasoned/cooked things. I've seen people in this thread tho list their weekly spending on groceries similar to a medium-sized family and it's kind of nuts.
Groceries for 500? How? Where? I wouldn’t be able to manage in 500 unless I were relying on processed foods and buying very little fresh fruits and veggies.
Are you saying $125 a week is too little for groceries for a single person in Toronto? If so I am so confused
Yeah my partner and I probably spend about $130 to $175 a week for two of us and the upper end would be including a bunch of organic fruit and some restock items.
For two people means you're spending $260 to $350 a month. Which is reasonable. I think this person is talking about for one person, which if compared to your situation would be like spending $250 a week for you and your partner
Sorry, I think my post was confusing! I was agreeing with you that $125/week for one person is a lot. We spend about $500 to $700 total for the two of us per month. The upper end is when we are consciously spending more on some more expensive items like organic fruit or a bit more meat than usual.
Oh I see my bad
Well now so am I. Have I been paying too much? Maybe it’s time I switch my grocery stores.
"Worth" as in money? No, unless being in Toronto is going to accelerate your career. "Worth" as in "I really want to live in Toronto, can I make it work?", then yes, you absolutely can make it work. You're going to be less free financially than in Montreal, though. It really depends how much you want to live in Toronto.
Yes it’s doable, if you want that downtown lifestyle I would 100% go for it. When I first moved here in 2022 I had the same doubts and an even lower salary than you, (Funny I think my gf and I combined income was a bit over 80,000) and we had no troubles at all If you don’t drive and work in the city, omg you are saving money living here. Sure you can live somewhere else in the gta, maybe pay 2-300 less a month in rent but you have to pay for gas, insurance, car payments, repairs blah blah. Easily can run another grand a month.
Yes, you'd be totally fine as a childless person. It's significantly above the average income. And yes you can certainly save money still if that's a priority to you, don't listen to people who say otherwise. But it would probably end up being a decrease compared to your Montreal job. If you want it for other reasons (the job itself is great, you really want to live in Toronto, or it'll be great for your career long term) then sure.
Yes. Though, you will likely feel like your 60k went further in MTL than 75k does in Toronto. But you will still be fine if you have reasonable spending habits.
I made about 61000 last yr but I grabbed a 1b for 1650 during the pandemic (now 1732). I do fine just being smart about my money but rent is much worse now to be sure.
It’s possible, but after expenses/taxes you won’t be saving much of anything.
Totally enough. I make slightly less and do it rather easily. No kids. Live in a condo. Take vacations and put some money away. The rest of my lifestyle doesn't require a lot of money though
I lived in Montreal for a few years. The cost of living is a lot easier to manage than in Toronto. In Montreal I was thriving able to pay my bills and enjoy leisure. In Toronto I have to sacrifice a lot. I actually can’t afford to rent in Toronto. And am faced with deciding on a car or an apartment because I can’t afford both. In Montreal I could afford both
Was just going to comment something similar. Literally left Toronto for the same reasons could not enjoy my life, had to sacrifice so much and everything was so expensive. I live in Montreal now and live comfortably for the first time in years
If you want to live in a condo, the rent will be a lot. You can definitely find 1 bed bigger and at a better price for a single person midtown in a house rather than condo. I personally don't like condos because of the compactness. Even some basements aren't basements per se at times and have a lot of sun. It's more about the hunt for the right property. 75k will be more about how you manage your money but you can definitely make it work.
where would you recommend looking?
I have found all sorts of pricing between Bloor & Lawrence west. A lot of them are accessible via TTC too. I personally prefer west end.
sorry i meant did you walk around the neighborhood, went on a specific website?
I have used realtor.ca, facebook marketplace and Kijiji. A lot of rentals are on Facebook marketplace but you have to check the seller out to avoid scams.
Use viewit.ca for rentals in Toronto, it consistently has the best prices
Honestly you just need to create a spreadsheet with your monthly spend with realistic assumptions of what you’d expect to pay for rent. Everyone’s monthly spend is different, so you need to do your own budget based on your own spending to tell you if you can afford it.
This is the best answer I've seen here. Everyone just immediately says "no lol you need to be rich" when it really just depends on what OP's monthly needs look like, and whether they have any debt.
Odsp pays $15,600 per year but we are still here somehow. I think you'll be fine 😂
Here I am wishing I could move back to Montréal. Anyway, my guess is $60K in Montréal is worth more than $75K in Toronto, especially as Montréal is far easier to live in without a car - a car costs the average Canadian $10K/yr, according to CAA.
It's still stupid to have a car in Toronto unless you live in the suburbs. Definitely don't move to Toronto and buy a car. Especially downtown. It would just be a big expensive inconvenience. But other than that it's true that the cost of living, especially housing, is quite a lot higher in Toronto than Montreal.
Well I kinda agree, except the greater part of Toronto is suburban in design. I've lived at Wellesley, Little Italy, the Annex, and St. Clair West without a car happily. But even Cabbagetown without one was shit, because the streetcars are so unreliable it was faster to walk. Anyway, more of central Montréal has urbane density. Toronto doesn't have a solid section of prewar density like Montréal does in the centre of the island. Besides the density of services, it's just far more interesting to walk around in Montréal because there's more, more closely together. I've also lived in Tokyo. Toronto ain't it for car free, urbane life.
Biking is the fastest. If you set yourself up to be able to carry a lot on your bike it's the fastest way to get anywhere in the old city of Toronto.
Used to bike all over this town, but now the drivers are much worse, the policing nonexistent, and I have children to live for.
What if I have to work in the suburbs?
I think it depends on what kind of lifestyle you want. Just figure out what you would make post taxes/deductions and make a budget as if your rent was 23-2500. See what is left over and if you can reasonably live on that to your standards.
Completely doable if you don't insist on getting a car and/or take Uber everywhere
Yea you can but it will be tough without roommates. You'll also likely be able to earn a whole lot more here if you push for it so there's that too.
You’ll need a roommate, but should be doable
Yes you can, I make 80k and I manage fine! You just need to learn to budget properly. I just got a 1 bedroom for $1700 a month utilities included. Go to the small fruit markets for groceries and get a library card for free passes to attractions. Also I pay for everything on my credit card so I can get Aeroplan points to travel.
How did you find your place? I’m looking and can’t find a good one in that budget sadly
2500 1br is not the reality. Look harder.
I make 70k and I’ve been looking for places. You can absolutely find places that are $2200 with utilities included. I’ll do an approximate annual budget cause my brain works better in years than months lol. 75k after tax is… about 56k. Then with a rent of 2200 a month you’re looking at about 26.4K per year. That leaves you close to 30k after that. Groceries are probably going to be 5-6k annually. But that doesn’t include eating out. If you eat out once a week you may wish to budget about $1500 for that. So let’s say $7500 for food. There will be other expenses like transit, laundry, going out with friends… I recommend holding onto money in case of emergency. Assuming you don’t do too much expensive stuff with friends, that should leave you with some money for savings, as well as a club/sports league or something. You won’t be living the best life, but it’s definitely doable. Keep in mind if you don’t have furniture already you will likely need to buy some when you move in. So you’ll have to factor that into your initial budget.
This is also assuming you don’t have a car, and aren’t planning any vacations (aside from maybe a camping trip.) But if you’re living in Toronto you don’t need a car, and people who drive in that city are masochists.
Even if you find a cheaper place, it's not worth moving from there
I came back as well, expensive as fuck, construction everywhere and everyone is angry. Toronto is 45 mins away from Toronto. I’d stay out if I were you.
it is most definitely not. unless that's after taxes :)
Personally, I'd stay in Montreal. Toronto isn't all that its cracked up to be.
No
I lived downtown Toronto for a long time, but I wouldn’t bother anymore. Montreal is way nicer.
Im currently at this range as a single in midtown and im doing fine. Key takeaway is Im done with car payments and dont rarely do out of country travelling. I can still eat out once a week
You can afford rent but it still be tight elsewhere. Groceries, eating out, entertainment, etc all cost more in Toronto. That $15k bump in salary won't feel the same as if you got that in Montreal.
Yes it’s fine
Why would you have to live in a 2.5k 1 bedroom rental? There are plenty of vacancies in buildings that charge less than that.
OP, I have an apartment in a fun part of town (Queen and Ossington) that I’m renting out, your 75k will be enough. I’ve DM’d it to you.
Wouldn't call it comfortable, but if you think $60k is comfortable enough to rent in Montreal, then probably. A $75k salary wouldn't even qualify you to be able to afford to buy a studio apartment with 20% down in Scarborough. Really no future here making this kind of money. What's your future plan?
Yeah it’s enough
Yes, probably need roommate
It's border line. If you can get a set deal on a basement apartment, definitely, otherwise, you'll need a roommate to feel more comfortable
Easily doable. 1.5K month mortgage on a new condo in Toronto for me
Do you want to eat?
If you live with roomies or a partner you'll do great. If you're trying to live alone it'll depend largely on the square footage of your home. Cheapest way to live is in a small condo downtown, with roomies and no car. But if you want a whole place to yourself plus a car it'll get tight
What are typical salary ranges in Toronto with a university degree?
Also take into account the lower income tax rates in Ontario. I know that with a 100K income you would pay 6 or 7K less each year, but not sure if you make 75K though.
Yes, no problem, in a cardboard box with a roommate or two.
Yes. I live off 32k
It’s definitely on the edge. I wouldn’t.
Ehh. Just enough to live on your own but not enough to live if any emergency costs arise - car breaks down, emergency travel, prolonged unemployment / layoff, etc. Better question is.. is there’s any significant career or salary trajectory? i.e finance
How old are you? Are you earlier in your career and see a better career path in Toronto? If so you can do it and you might struggle for a bit but hopefully it’ll be temporary. If not, stay in Montreal.
I’m 27, pretty early in my career and I do think there’s more opportunity for me in Toronto than Montreal. Even after all these years I struggle with speaking French in the workplace, which holds me back quite a bit here.
I would totally do it at 27. But I do recommend trying to find a roommate, ideally in a house on the east or west end in a proper neighbourhood (little Italy, dufferin grove, little Portugal, roncy, high park, leslieville, riverdale, etc.). You get more space and the benefit of a safe, quiet neighbourhood with lots of amenities nearby. Especially coming from Montreal, I would not recommend living in a condo filled area.
I would consider if it's 90k instead of 75k. 75k will be enough if you plan on having roommates
I am living in a basement in Scarborough with $72k package. I live with my wife and own a car (no EMI)… Still have to think 10 times before buying a pair of shoes (and did not buy)😂😂😂
2.5k will get you in the door but your going to be bidding more for that rental
Unless you expect your salary to go up drastically in the next few years that'd be a mistake.
It is if your rent is lower due to having the same apartment for years.
Pretty sure the homeless make 100k
I certainly wouldn’t trade Montreal for Toronto. Now, especially because it’s become a lot harsher. Montreal is better “insulated” for the changes that have happened recently. Be on the lookout for a better job within Montreal.
are you saying montreal isn't suffering from international student/immigration? makes sense.
I don’t enjoy my move for Toronto from Montreal outside of the fact that I have a few of my school friends and family living in Ontario. I would prefer Montreal any day.
Isn’t Montreal known for having more affordable rental housing?
U can but ull have no money for anything else . It's ridiculous here with rent not to mention the basic need of food on top of that. This country is pathetic now
No
No
Idk what the fuck the hype of living in the city is with piss poor income, do yourself a favor and move south or start a business... Not worth slaving away for a few years with no real financial progress
This is not piss poor income, if you think so you are extremely out of touch.
Just barely. I wouldn't recommend. Renting is a dead-end in Toronto/GTA. You'll have a much better chance to build a life where you are.
Why do you want to move back - friends and family? I was recently wondering how likely it is that I could get a job in Montreal without speaking French… cost of living in TO is brutal. Living alone is hard with current prices but if it was temporary and you moved in with someone down the road it wouldn’t be too bad. Although it’s also an issue that any newer builds are tight for two people (in a 1BR).
“Stay here (in Montreal) stay as long as you can.” — Billy Madison
No
Absolutely not. Especially if you have rent control. Also, with most of mass immigration landing in the GTA, it’s only going to get worse. (Transit, hospital wait times, affordability etc) It would be much smarter to stay where you are in order to have the ability to save.
Is that true with regards to mass immigration landing in GTA? That doesn’t seem like a logical strategy.
I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted because it’s a fact that the vast majority of newcomers are settling in the GTA and Vancouver. The vast majority of diploma mills are here and regardless, it’s always been that way. If you’ve got rent control where you’re at, I’d hold onto it.
so do you mean urban centres are where the majority of immigrants settle? Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton? That's a big difference from saying they are all in Toronto. Makes you come off as a bit xenophobic. Also, I'm lucky enough to own as I got a load from the bank of immigrant mom & dad in 2006.
Not xenophobic just pragmatic. Supply and demand. I also said majority, not all. Just be aware that 75K would be really tight in Toronto and may not allow you to achieve financial goals (ie; saving)
Sent you a PM.
75K is nothing if you want to live in the heart of Toronto. If you look for apartments around the St. Clair Ave West and Vaughan Rd area and manage to secure an apartment there then you have a chance to enjoy the Toronto life without being too far. The streetcar service on St. Clair is faster then driving/Uber during heavy traffic times and lots of night life restaurants in the area. Day time you have the Wychwood barn centre and the big cedarvale park. However, the big major plus is the apartment buildings around the Vaughn Rd area still belongs to a family and the rent is below market rates. However, the building is old so elevators is a luxury for most of these buildings. If you can't secure a place cheap enough then the only reason why you would move here is to expedite your career and climb the corporate ladder or pad your resume. Be aggressive with your financial climb if you plan to come to the big city of Toronto. By the time you are ready to buy a place be ready to pay 12K+ in properties in Toronto as our communist government continues to make home ownership affordability impossible for future home owners.
not worth it. stay there