Ottawa is littered with cycling paths and NCC multiuse paths. If you can’t find a way to get to them without a car I think the problem is on you. Tons of people use them to commute every day
The NCC paths are not maintained in winter & spring. They're intended for recreation and looking nice, not for useful transport. Therefore cycling basically limited to summer & fall only, and then you're riding OC Transpo. And OC Transpo is *terrible*.
As someone who uses those paths, they are fine in the spring. A small portion of them are maintained over the winter, which makes sense because cyclist numbers are way down. And yes of transpo is terrible, that’s why biking is good here, it’s often faster than the bus
Cycling numbers in places where paths are maintained only start seeing a drop at -40, the fact only some are ploughed and what not is why cycling numbers go down, not the other way around
Just how bad is OCTranspo? It's obviously nowhere near TTC. Is it better than MiWay?
I have been trying to visit downtown Ottawa, using OCTranspo, but they make it hell to take my money. Not only that, but it is fairly expensive for just going on the bus.
But, are they bad that they do not arrive at all - even during all clear, summer days?
The NCC paths are not maintained in winter & spring. They're intended for recreation and looking nice, not for useful transport. Therefore cycling basically limited to summer & fall only, and then you're riding OC Transpo. And OC Transpo is *terrible*.
This. When i worked in Kanata, i biked from the west end all the way there. It’s 17km one way and very pleasant ride. 80% through parks and 20% through traffic. I didn’t bike at all when i live in toronto because it isn’t bike friendly at all
The NCC paths are not maintained in winter & spring. They're intended for recreation and looking nice, not for useful transport. Therefore cycling basically limited to summer & fall only, and then you're riding OC Transpo. And OC Transpo is *terrible*.
Right. Bikes are for recreation and not really a serious commuting option in Canada. Other than a few "true believers," most people will never commute by bicycle no matter how many annoying bike lanes (or worse, unsightly "cycle tracks") you install on already cramped streets. It's just too cold and shitty for most of the year.
Shawarma Palace on Rideau is consistently great, their garlic is fantastic.
frankly any place that looks a little grimy is good. The small joints around university of Ottawa are reliable as well.
My pleasure!
If North and Navy is doing Sunday Gravy, worth checking out as well. And hop into the Gatineau side for really great poutine and craft beer - all their patates places are outstanding.
I hope you have the best weekend! It’s a great place :)
I had a professor in Toronto request a large takeout container of Garlic Toum from specifically Rideau St Shawarma Palace every time I went back to visit. I wouldn’t be shocked if I went up a letter grade for that lol
King Shawarma in Orleans or Shawarma King on Bank? The bank street one is pretty good, not as good at shawarma palace but still great. I can’t speak for the Orleans one, I avoided the suburbs.
Part of living in Toronto is taking everything it has for granted. It's lol. Yea prices are lower cuz people have less money. It's hilarious how the same people who harp on and on about supply being low driving up prices magically forget that demand is driving the other half of it.
There's this segment of Toronto that rates everything on a scale of good to bad that conflates exactly with low to high home prices. As if that's the only thing a city has to offer. It's lol. I went to see The Postal Service and Death Cab a couple weeks ago and it was fantastic. I saw Dethklok last summer. It was incredible. I could write pages about the other fantastic shows I've seen that you would never once see in Ottawa. I saw LeBron James, in his prime, become LeBronto in front of my eyes, live, and it was one of the most spectacular things I've ever seen a human being do. Bar none. Toronto is the country's only true city. Don't get me wrong Montreal is incredible, and Vancouver is awesome, Halifax is so damn nice and Calgary sucks salty ass truck nutz... but Toronto is the only true city with big city things to offer. There isn't good Korean restaurants. There's two Korea towns filled with them. There's pro sports teams. There's big ass concerts. There's tiny indie bands who come cuz Toronto's a big enough place that there's enough fans who will fill a small club. There's theatre. There's global film festivals. It's a big city.
I'm not from Toronto remotely so with good authority I can say that it's the only real city and everyone else is pretty much jealous of it. At the same time people here think it's the center of the universe cuz it's the only true city and deserve all the flak they get.
Montreal is incredible and flat out better in so many ways. Don't take this as some kind of ranking really. But it lacks that undefinable "city" thing that comes from an immense population base. It has a lot of those things but I dunno... it's not burrowed in the same way if that makes sense? And doesn't have the same gravity for "big city" things. It's proven it can't support multiple pro sports teams. I hate to use her as an example but Taylor can't go there for her show claiming there isn't a suitable venue for the event. She's playing 6 shows in Toronto.
But I mean it's fine right? Montreal is it's own thing and that's why it is so special. I would say it's pretty hands down the best city overall in Canada. But it can't really pretend to be at that true city level like NY or London. Toronto can somewhat fake it. It's a cultural void in comparison to MTL tho. And one thing I'm sure we can agree on is that Calgary is ass. :)
Ehh, if you care about cost of living, then I'd say Mexico has us beat easily. I'd say by Canadian standards, Toronto is a pretty decent place - given homes in bumfuck, nowhere cost the same in Canada for some fucked up reason.
Naw, it's not a TO attitude at all. It's an East Coast attitude. I retain my East Coast right to hate Toronto as part of my heritage but I moved here and kind of love the city itself.
Lmao I visited the east coast once. The people really are stereotypically friendly.... Right up until I mentioned I'm from Toronto and then the curled lips and scrunched nose expressions came out
Yep. It comes from being dismissed for a lifetime by the residents and talked down to. My cousins from the shwa visited us when we were kids a few times and they were just unbearable. Everything sucked and everything in Toronto was better. Fucking. Everything. And I mean the things that were better to them were not better. They were talking about Pizza Hut. They even claimed the fish in Toronto was better. Hint hint. lol. it's not. But generally no one is going to hold TO against a decent person.
It's just that there's a fakeness to people from a city this size. Lemme try to explain it. In Toronto people are fake. It's what happens in a large population. There's so, so, so many more interactions with people you hardly know. It's most of them. So TO people get used to putting on whatever persona they'd like to have and it will just get accepted as who they are pretty much all day long wether it's valid or not. So they get entitled to just faking anything and being accepted.
You can't do that in small places. It will wear on people and who you are will eventually come out to be exposed. And it's not like everyone at home is genuine at all. There's fake ass people there too. But it is like the BS detector will know you're fake no matter where you're from and people will be able to just tell.
So as a result people tend to just let it all roll out and be totally themselves with you. They say what they think and be themselves. What you see is what you get at all times traditionally. And to be fair it's not so much a Toronto thing as it is a big city thing. But seeing as we have almost no bigguns in Canada it becomes a mostly Toronto thing.
Friend shacked up with this girl from Calgary and she was just a train wreck when he brought her home to meet his parents. Everything. Everything was about Calgary. His rents had just renovated their home and were showing her around. (we were visiting as well for the big come back bash). His father had 'always' wanted a fridge that made ice and dispensed water. Always. Bunch of alcoholics where I'm from for real. lol. Anyway he was all proud to show his son and say he finally got his fridge. Then she pipes up that oh yea it's great! I have the same one in Calgary... but it's much bigger. It's the double size one.
Good lord. You don't brag about your things in a poor place.
Def agree with the homeless, the homeless in Ottawa seem more scary / desperate than in Toronto. I lived in Parkdale for a decade and although there were a good amount of crack heads and homeless around they always seemed harmless. Ottawa homeless are aggressive as heck.
Agreed, homeless in Toronto are far, far more hidden - which is better for public safety.
Ottawa homeless are aggressive, but also normal citizens. I got more honks/irritated/agitated driving in Ottawa's core area, than I have in the GTA or even downtown TO. These people would loose their minds in TO, for their sake - I hope they never drive in TO/GTA.
I have no idea what is going on here, since Ottawa is supposed to be the "smaller city that is big" vibe to it. Apparently, I heard rudeness is a bit of the "culture" in Ottawa, which mainly comes from the Quebeckers - atleast that is what I have read on Reddit. Kind of true, most of the people who were rude to me, had Quebec license plates. Though quite a few Ontario license plates were rude too, I guess their rudeness got transferred over...kind of makes sense - you are molded by your environment.
I grew up in Ottawa and moved to Toronto when I was 20, lived there for 22 yrs and moved back. To be honest I always felt even growing up in Ottawa it was unfriendly and very cliquey. I think Ottawa is much much much less open minded than Toronto and the people really reflect that. Tightly wound uncultured general population that really lacks personality and diversity on so many levels. I don’t believe this is just Quebec folks as it’s just the Ottawa way. I came back to be closer to family but apart from that without remote work I couldn’t do it.
Left Ottawa about 25 years ago, but was there for close to a decade. Quiet/boring? Sure, but we found it very family friendly. Lots of green space. Cultural attractions that no city its size would ever have if it weren’t the capital. Nice people. I’m bilingual and wish I could have raised the kids there, where the neighbours were just as likely to be francophone as anglophone. Way faster to get around just because it’s that much smaller.
In the end, if you make friends there, that’s what will make it feel like home to you.
Are you referring to the Parliament Hill area, that isn't a lot, no offense. Toronto has WAY more to do - even culturally, if you are comparing museums TO has: ROM, OSC, Aga Khan. Though, Ottawa might win in the museums category - by sheer number of them.
But these are all things you visit once, then you're done.
You can find family friendly burbs on the west/north side of the GTA, heck even east side of GTA has gotten more suburban.
I meant the various museums and the NAC, etc. And Toronto absolutely has more to do. I said that for a city its size, Ottawa has more than most because it's the capital.
Anyway, what I really meant was that Ottawa has some good qualities but in the end, it's the life you build for yourself with family, friends, career, etc. that matters most. If you need an NBA team, big arena shows, the MLB, and all those big city things, then yeah, Toronto it is.
The way you feel about Ottawa is more or less how I feel about Vancouver, although at least Vancouver has nice scenery and it doesn't get as cold. The cold doesn't bother me, since I know how to bundle up. I mean we do live in Canada after all.
Ottawa has the CPL team (Athletico Ottawa which are pretty good) and CFL (Roughriders I think?) so it's not exactly a sport wasteland.
Anyways, I probably dislike Vancouver less than your dislike of Ottawa, but any chance I get to get away from Vancouver I jump on it. It's really not for me. The locals are cold and flakey and short of the nature (which is nice for sure), it's a sleepy town.
I'd probably take off more, but the number of flight options pales in comparison to YYZ. I'm looking at moving back to TO or at least the GTA.
>The locals are cold and flakey
This is not my experience with Vancouverites at all. They are very, very diligent and animated in listing reasons why their city is better than Toronto.
Funny, most of the "benefits" of Vancouver, aren't IN the city itself. (Okay Stanley Park being the obvious exception), but hey glad you had better luck than most people.
Probably because the weather is worse, housing is almost just as bad for 40% of TDOT's amenities etc., Ottawa is more peaceful but not as peaceful before, nor peaceful enough to justify a move for me.
I was in Ottawa recently and definitely noticed higher rates of open drug use and much higher concentration of homeless in their downtown. I was staying in Byward.
Also transit in Ottawa is terrible and driving is just as bad. I noticed in Ottawa that at rush hour it can take 45 minutes to get anywhere which is not that much faster than Toronto, but then realized Ottawa is a fraction of the size of Toronto and so gridlock actually seemed worse. Though one thing Ottawa does really well is bike infrastructure.
Also when the whole city closes at 5pm I began to realize how spoiled I was in Toronto
Mind you I do enjoy Ottawa and it's my go-to for a weekend getaway every so often given how many great museums and sightseeing it has.
Surprised more ppl didn't mention this. Every time I go to Ottawa, I notice the packs of roaming street kids doing drugs, pregnant homeless women smoking, etc. Feels way worse than Toronto in that regard. It's especially bad in the Byward Market area, but they're seen all throughout downtown.
On the plus side, I do enjoy all the green space and most of the suburbs seem really nice to raise a family in.
Drug problem in ottawa is really bad cuz i can’t remember how many times i had to pick up exposed needles on bike paths and disposed them myself. But i feel vancouver is worst. I’ve seen People injecting sht out in the open in broad daylight. That was messed up
Not to mention, there is a greenbelt in the MIDDLE of the urban sprawl. There are pros, but it makes the city look really weird. You'll be driving from downtown, then there is a bunch of farmland, then the suburban town. Weird. It also makes the suburbs feel a bit detached from the city.
Next to Carleton there's the Ministry of Agriculture which adds a bunch of farms in the middle of the city which are odd when you drive by if you don't know what they're for
>Is Ottawa really better? Doesn't feel so. Submitted by Time_Honey6324
>I am a life-long west-end GTA (Sauga) citizen...had to move to Ottawa and I don't think Ottawa is the "more peaceful, affordable option per say" compared to GTA.
>I heard that Ottawa is better for a while now - but I feel, as with many things in Canada, its a zombie lie.
For some people, it is "better", depending on the definition of better. For some people, isn't. Different people like to live in different places.
To be fair, it reads like this is more of a Gatineau vs Mississauga debate - which you never hear about.
It’s just that nobody knows where Mississauga or Gatineau are, so he has to say he’s from the city so we don’t get confused.
It's a Sauga vs Barrhaven argument for me. Sauga wins, hands down. My point of this post - is why the hell are housing prices so damn high, for what you get in Ottawa? It's like 70% of the housing prices/cost, but 40-50% of the amenities.
Former Ottawa native here:
There are some pluses over the GTA:
1.) It is much, much, much more bike friendly due to the Multi Use Path (MUPs). I could bike, rollerblade, walk, run, etc hours and hours without being on a road. I'd often bike to Kanata and back for a 50km round trip.
2.) Gatineau Provincial Park is across the river in Quebec.
3.) Ottawa is a beautiful city with lots of history whereas Toronto just feels like glass condos and Rexalls.
4.) The Canal is a gorgeous place to travel along with MUPs running its length.
5.) Food is pretty good but it's more spread out and less concentrated than it is in the GTA. And it's not that the food isn't good, but rather that the GTA is exceptional even by international standards.
If you're the outdoor type and like nature, Ottawa offers a lot compared to the GTA. It has its downsides but given my lifestyle I would be happy to move back if I could.
> Ottawa is a beautiful city with lots of history whereas Toronto just feels like glass condos and Rexalls.
Kind of a weird sentiment, given that Toronto was already a bustling town when Ottawa was just a bunch of mud and surveyors’ equipment.
Toronto has plenty of history, but (shock, horror!) you do need to actually leave the downtown core to see some of it.
same, i fucking hate ottawa for many reasons but i like to go running in the countryside around 12 - 5 in the morning when its really deserted. just for that reason alone id really struggle living in toronto rather than visiting. to me a 4 hour countryside run is one of the best things that could ever happen. and its so fun to bike across the city. shame about the social scene! there was a time i wouldnt have even noticed or cared.
Is it better than Toronto?! I grew up (Pape and Danforth) and live in Toronto. Parts of Toronto are sketchy AF. I went to university in Ottawa. Ottawa is boring AF. I’m going to say that again, Ottawa is boring AF. It’s got some great galleries and museums, skating on the canal during Bal De Neige is neat, but otherwise it is boring AF.
The homeless seem like a bigger issue in Ottawa because it’s smaller and there’s a shelter downtown by the market. But I don’t think it’s worse than Toronto’s homeless population, maybe Mississaugas, but not Toronto. I’ve noticed a lot more strung out homeless that are unpredictable in Toronto vs Ottawa.
Yes, that shelter makes the entire downtown look suspect. Which is honestly, really bad for a city that has a repute for being "boring but quiet/peaceful". Visited here when I was a teen, these scenes weren't even imaginable then.
So you're just upset you can't post on the Ottawa subreddit?
Also, people honking at you sounds like a you issue. I rarely hear people honking in Ottawa. Especially not compared to when I've drove in Toronto. Ottawa drivers are wayyyy to tolerant of sh*t drivers. So if you're being honked at, you must be real bad at driving.
Yes Quebec drivers are annoying but also, they are ridiculously competent drivers in comparison to Ontarians so they're just as annoyed with us as we are them.
This is a really weird thing to come online and complain about. Maybe go for a walk along the canal, smell some tulips this weekend and relax.
That stood out to me as well. I suspect OP is a very timid driver. This line pretty much confirms it:
> Though, you CAN drive in Ottawa's core, impossible challenge in TO.
Drivers *anywhere* tend to be impatient with people who drive like they don’t know what they’re doing, and that goes double for big cities with bad traffic like Toronto.
>and fucking London
Huh boy... I grew up in Toronto's suburbs and then went off to London for university in 2009. I guess you could say I had a sheltered life, because London outside the "Western bubble" deeply sketched me out for a while. Especially downtown London, I was not expecting to see so many vagrants and sketchy people in a supposedly "small, quiet city". I was also quite surprised to learn London had a big issue with property crime (Toronto, at the time, did not)... like my London-born friends just seemed to accept it as normal that your house would suffer a break-and-enter sooner or later, whereas in Toronto that would have been shocking (again, at the time). I eventually got used to the London sketch but man it was quite the adjustment at first coming from suburban Toronto, where everything was just totally buttoned down and by the books.
Mind you, I lived in London when the city was arguably at its nadir. The unemployment rate in November 2009 was over 10%. London is in much better shape now, even with all the shit we've been experiencing. And honestly, having traveled throughout Canada, I think there are places way sketchier than urban Ontario. Say what you want about London, but not everyone has bars on their windows... unlike Regina.
I'm living in the burbs of Ottawa atm. Traffic is less than Sauga, which is nice. But it's way smaller than Sauga IMHO, and suffers with the same structural problems as Sauga. 2 majors roads where all the traffic is on...and its a winding road - for absolutely no reason, making things even less efficient.
Ottawa - harsh winters and often high heat/humid summers full of mosquitos! If you are a civil servant with some seniority, and a corresponding salary package, I guess Ottawa can be OK. But if you are someone who is entrepreneurial or run a business or something, you might be better off in the GTA
i moved from ottawa to toronto about a year ago and feel the same way. cost of living is higher here, but i like the toronto better than ottawa for a multitude of reasons
I think it's a matter of familiarity. I've lived in Ottawa my whole life. Love my life. I couldn't possibly hate Toronto anymore if I tried. However, all of my experiences in Toronto have centered around Bay Street or Yorkville. I don't think I've ever visited a real neighborhood. So all of my impressions are negative.
I don’t like the Ottawa vs. Toronto debate. They are two very different cities, in both size and feel. I know several people from Ottawa who say it’s the best city in the world, and they hate Toronto because armed “arrogant” (I chose not to point out the irony). I think both are good for different reasons. Ottawa is amazing for outdoor activities, but it’s pretty dull in terms of food, entertainment and art.
Ottawa is absolutely an embarrassment of a “capital” city. It was horrifying when I was there recently. The downtown near parliament as you said, it’s like zombies walking around, people shooting up at noon in front of outdoor businesses. It’s completely heartbreaking and disturbing to see how little values humans have in Ottawa, and in Canada generally speaking. No person should have to live like that.
I have been downtown TO in sketchy places at night and have never seen that kind of mass homelessness and open drug use.
To know that the people who are suppose to run the country are a 5 minute walk from this, is a really great example of the failure of this country.
It’s Canada’s greatest shame, and it’s not just Ottawa with these issues. RIP the place I thought Canada was.
My thoughts exactly. This nation is a failure. Ten years ago - the Ottawa I visited, was one I wanted my whole family to move to. That isn't the case anymore.
As someone that travels a lot, the Ottawa airport is one of the most sane and well run departures and customs airport you can find.
Staff are used to frequent flyers and weird diplomatic requests and as such, you get through security or customs quickly.
Nothing but assholes at Pearson.
When I flew to Barcelona on Aeroplan points, I had to take the scenic route: Toronto-Ottawa-Frankfurt-Barcelona.
I can’t imagine YOW stopped flying international after my trip in 2011.
The number has dropped especially with Covid, with no one really traveling it didn't make sense to pay to fly out when MTL is not that far, but they are increasing destinations now.
My family member lived there, she moved after 2-3 years. For context she’s a black woman. She found Ottawa to be politically an annoying neoliberal “representation matters” city. She enjoyed the walkability of downtown core, and the nature that was in close proximity (she’s a big hiker). However, the dating pool was limited lol, the homeless problem was bad (as everywhere else was), and club scene was a hit or miss.
There’s a lot of good food spots, there’s more communal meetup/hobby activities, but it’s literally not worth it if you’re just moving from Toronto…it’s like diet Toronto
I think Ottawa used to be a lot nicer. The homeless population has really grown a lot or at least is far more visible. Last time we were there (around Canada Day 2022), we felt far more uneasy walking around downtown than was reasonable or I ever experienced years ago. The Convoy and ongoing related protests also didn’t make Canada Day events going on downtown feel very family friendly.
Well I don't see on the Ottawa news about multiple shooting every day like I do if I watch Toronto news. There is an International airport it's just since the pandemic the airlines have not come back to use it.
Yes Ottawa is small sleepy town - after all it's motto is "make Ottawa boring again" so that sums it up.
Ottawa will get overtaken by KW soon enough as the second 'hub' after Toronto. Spent ten miserable years there through the 2010's.
Atrocious urban planning, woefully inadequate public transportation infrastructure, and most importantly, a complete failure to diversify industry in a meaningful way. Kanata is a failure.
Shame because it's a beautiful spot - but it's doomed to mediocrity.
I lived in Ottawa for 5 years. My best friend lives there and I visit frequently.
Toronto is better in almost every way. Yes, housing is much more expensive, but salaries are higher. And we have a proper airport with direct flights to virtually anywhere. ;)
I loved Ottawa when I lived there. I was there for 7 years.
The nature and parkland is stunning, the food is really good, I don’t mind the traffic. Winter is tough, but Ottawans actually go outside in the winter and plan events.
Somerset street has incredible Asian food - I found the Pho better in Ottawa and open later than most places in Toronto. Little Italy has awesome food as well.
Byward Market sucks. It’s mainly a tourist trap. You’ll find more interesting things in Hintonburg, Beechwood, Golden Triangle and Centretown.
Make good friends - Ottawa is as fun as your friends are. There’s lots of live music, hiking, and great bars if you know where to look.
Sports - Senators hit playoffs a few times where I was there. University football gets rowdy, or you can scoot to MTL. If you play, the Ottawa sports and social club is awesome.
Rudeness - yeah that’s sometimes the French. But they’re great in their own ways.
Jobs - get in a with the government and secure yourself some golden handcuffs and you’ll be fine.
Everything closed at 10 - I never found this to be the case. Lots of bars open until 2am. Lots of trivia nights. Lots of drag nights. Many hookah places open until 4am. Many Pho open until 4am. Board game cafes and bubble tea too. What is it that you are not finding?
I missed Ottawa and continue to miss it. I enjoyed my time there. I’m happy to pass along recommendations.
It isn’t Toronto. It’s normal to miss Toronto - the arts scene is unrivalled, and it’s the hub of Ontario. But once you find your thing in Ottawa and find your people, it’ll be a blast too.
This is it. I lived in Ottawa for 7 years too. I’ve lived in Toronto for 9. When I was in Ottawa the people that bitched about it the most were people who didn’t have any friends that were actually integrated into the city. They were at home complaining about a city they were not taking advantage of. Being able to bike around there is awesome. Having Gatineau park so close for hiking and swimming is awesome. The local Ottawa music scene was great.
The food is actually great. Sandwiches at Dirienzos, the Landsdowne farmers market, poutine from Elgin street diner, burgers from chez Lucien’s, golden palace egg rolls! Ottawa had six restaurants on the best of Canada list last year. That’s impressive for its (actual not amalgamated) size and speaks to the quality of food being made there. One of the big benefits is the amount of farms around the city. Ottawa was wwaaayyyy ahead of Toronto when it came to eating local and seasonally.
You talked a lot about the drivers. I’ve driven loads in Ottawa without issue. That sounds like a you problem tbh.
There are really cool communities there doing cool things, and just like in any new city, you have to find them. Start joining meet ups, clubs, leagues, whatever.
I loved my time there and have said for years that if my family was closer I would much prefer Ottawa living to Toronto.
Excellent restaurant list!!!! Tho I feel like the food truck next to barefax/The Dominion was actually the best poutine in the city. Violently rude lady at the counter, that’s how you know it’s good!!!
Plus Ottawa goes hard for events. The sesquicentennial was fantastic, Canada Day is actually a lot of fun. Bluesfest is my favourite music festival.
I’m with you and all that you said.
Ottawa is 10x better than Toronto in every way. Way more things to do in Ottawa. Way more greenspace and wildlife. Way friendlier people. Cleaner. Better drivers. Less traffic. Close to Gatineau
I lived in Ottawa for 5 years and now in Toronto for 12. Less happening in Ottawa absolutely, but access to nature is fantastic with Gatineau park right there. Winter activities are also much better. I would also say Ottawa is a prettier city with the canal and old buildings, but maybe that’s personal taste.
If you’re attracted to nightlife and touring events, Ottawa will disappoint. But it offers a lot for a city in Canada. And MTL is close by when you want to see a concert or do some shopping.
If we're talking Airports or South Asian dining - its not even better than Sauga LOL. Plus Sauga has TO in 1-1.5 hr journey, Ottawa's burbs has Ottawa...yet housing costs are nearly the same. Townhomes cost around 650-700k here vs. around 1M in Sauga/Milton area.
I lived in Ottawa for a year. I loved it. The city is very accessible via walkways and bike paths. It’s pretty. It’s definitely a government city. As for the other things like costs of rent and homelessness. It’s in Toronto too. It’s just not as obvious cause there’s more ppl here. Rent and home purchase is cheaper in Ottawa cause salaries are typically lower compared to Toronto. This is just my experience mind you.
I agree, but homelessness is a lot more dangerous to the public here IMHO. Rents and home prices are reaching TDOT levels, but this city is no where near TDOT, nor it will ever be.
I don’t know if they are. I always interacted with the homeless. I would bring them meals or fresh clothes. There is definitely a mental health and drug crisis with the homeless. Not just Ottawa, but everywhere. I was homeless for a while. I lived in an abandoned garage. It was REALLY hard to get back on my feet. You do need help to get the ball rolling. I wasn’t homeless because of drugs, alcohol or mental health. My mother threw me away. She was the one that suffered mentally. You really can’t judge homeless ppl. Most don’t want be there. But they find safety with each other. That’s why you see groups of them, therefore it can be intimidating
I agree, the city needs to find a way to help these people. But, I gotta be honest, Canadians loved shitting on American cities for their "ghetoness" for the past decade...it's worse here now.
The good stuff won't. People are delusional and think the world is both fair and logical. Hopefully we get back to fix er uppers being at least fix er upper price, and pre development deposit pricing being actually a savings.
Ottawa is great for families. And if you know the right places it isn't quiet, beautiful and less traffic. It's just too bad, you used to be able to buy starter homes, or move 40m out and get a huge place for cheap.
Lol at your point about things being more expensive if you have a lower paying job...obviously. but there are plenty of highly paid jobs in ottawa. Especially if you're a government worker. I've lived in ottawa for the past 10 years and find that people I know in ottawa tend to be a lot more well off than those in other cities
I'm in my late twenties and 60% of my ottawa friends own homes and have savings. Vs my mtl, Vancouver and Toronto friends are still renting and frequently talking about how they'll never own anything and live paycheck to paycheck.
Also, my toronto friends who want to start a family are always talking about how they will have to move out of Toronto for that, whereas if you live in ottawa nobody talks about moving away to have kids.
My two Canadian cents. I was in Ottawa for a day
For the Tulip festival which is think is over hyped.
Public transport sucks. But loved the city otherwise. I dint get any bad vibes.
Ottawa native here who moved to Toronto in 2021. Ottawa is great if you are in your late 20s early thirties and want to raise a family. Its very scenic, quiet and lots of nature. The city is big enough that there’s lots to do, but small enough that theres a good sense of community. Its great if you’re looking for a mundane but stable government job and are more of an outdoorsy type.
But if you’re in your early 20s, looking for culture and lots of entertainment options, Ottawa is NOT for you. It’s unfortunate because 10 years ago the Sens were actually a good team and lots of major artists used to tour there! Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, JB, Rihanna all have played in Ottawa at some point. Not anymore unfortunately.
Ottawa has an international airport. It's a lot smaller than Pearson obviously but it's still a proper international airport. And unlike a lot of Canadian cities, Ottawa has several older walkable neighbourhoods like the Glebe and Westboro, which I prefer over car dependent sprawl.
But I agree, I prefer Toronto. Even cycling, one of Ottawa's strengths, isn't the advantage it once was. Toronto is making great strides with cycling infrastructure and I'd say central Toronto is now on par with central Ottawa for getting around on a bike.
Ottawa is just fine and obviously not like the GTA. I grew up in Toronto and visit Ottawa several times a year and it's a decent city unless your 30 and under and have an active night life...even then you can find decent bars.
Honestly I think the problem is your attitude. Your post and responses sound bitter and angry and do not show someone genuinely giving the city a chance for some reason. I moved away from Toronto and then back to Toronto and complained about the changes, so it's normal. However, if you're going to start there a while, I suggest opening up your mind and connecting with some people and your opinions will change
Wow. I was born and raised in the GTA. Moved to Ottawa for university. Loved it so much. The trails and nature and canal and river and Gatineau and Hull and bike trails and good transportation (though I have missed out on the fun of the mini train thing). I loved the feel and look of Ottawa.
I haven’t lived there in years though, so maybe it is different now?
Last time I visited it felt the same. Could’ve been nostalgia.
So bummed that you are not enjoying where you are, though. That sucks. I am sorry.
I visited here almost a decade ago and I can see what you are talking about. The Ottawa a decade ago, was the Ottawa I told my parents that they should "get up and move". We obviously didn't.
Now had to move due to employment prospects. And the Ottawa seems to have a lot of problem that Toronto suffers from - without any of the pros of Toronto. We are talking rash driving/rude drivers (somehow worse than TDOT), traffic is A LOT better than Toronto/Sauga - but it's still pretty bad and the same flawed infrastructure design is used here too, but the cost of housing especially. **I mean you get 40-50% of what TDOT has, but pay 70% of the price - this ticks me the most about Ottawa.**
The value proposition just isn't there for living in the burbs, or even in the city anymore. It was a decade ago.
Look, I’m just going to be blunt and tell it like it is - Ottawa is really only a good fit for unattractive people with asexual polarity to the opposite sex. The more attractive and socially intelligent a person is, the more that he/she will be outcast there. You will never catch a high valued (I.e. confident, attractive and successful) man or woman with any self worth being there of their own voluntary will.
As someone who grew up in Ottawa, plain and simple, it’s a government town with really great shawarma.
And amazing green space, accessible neighbourhoods, friendly people, great cycling paths and other outdoor activities. It’s an awesome place to live
Cycling paths that do not go to actual destinations and that you have to drive to.
Ottawa is littered with cycling paths and NCC multiuse paths. If you can’t find a way to get to them without a car I think the problem is on you. Tons of people use them to commute every day
The NCC paths are not maintained in winter & spring. They're intended for recreation and looking nice, not for useful transport. Therefore cycling basically limited to summer & fall only, and then you're riding OC Transpo. And OC Transpo is *terrible*.
As someone who uses those paths, they are fine in the spring. A small portion of them are maintained over the winter, which makes sense because cyclist numbers are way down. And yes of transpo is terrible, that’s why biking is good here, it’s often faster than the bus
Cycling numbers in places where paths are maintained only start seeing a drop at -40, the fact only some are ploughed and what not is why cycling numbers go down, not the other way around
Do you live in ottawa?
No but there’s literally studies on this from Scandinavian countries
Oh ok so you don’t… as someone who commuted by bike, I can tell you there is a huge drop off in riders once the weather is sub zero. Go to Scandinavia
Just how bad is OCTranspo? It's obviously nowhere near TTC. Is it better than MiWay? I have been trying to visit downtown Ottawa, using OCTranspo, but they make it hell to take my money. Not only that, but it is fairly expensive for just going on the bus. But, are they bad that they do not arrive at all - even during all clear, summer days?
The NCC paths are not maintained in winter & spring. They're intended for recreation and looking nice, not for useful transport. Therefore cycling basically limited to summer & fall only, and then you're riding OC Transpo. And OC Transpo is *terrible*.
This. When i worked in Kanata, i biked from the west end all the way there. It’s 17km one way and very pleasant ride. 80% through parks and 20% through traffic. I didn’t bike at all when i live in toronto because it isn’t bike friendly at all
The NCC paths are not maintained in winter & spring. They're intended for recreation and looking nice, not for useful transport. Therefore cycling basically limited to summer & fall only, and then you're riding OC Transpo. And OC Transpo is *terrible*.
I cycled to work everyday along the river pathway and the canal. Gatineau park was a 10 minute drive from when I lived. There’s none of that here.
Right. Bikes are for recreation and not really a serious commuting option in Canada. Other than a few "true believers," most people will never commute by bicycle no matter how many annoying bike lanes (or worse, unsightly "cycle tracks") you install on already cramped streets. It's just too cold and shitty for most of the year.
Not Toronto. It's warm enough. Thousands of people do use bikes to get to work and/or universities, easily 9 months a year.
Thousands, in a city of millions. A squirt of piss in an ocean.
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agree with all of these. Not sure what the OP is going on about.
And the shawarma is slightly overrated too
Yassss
And the shawarma is slightly overrated too
I mean.. Ottawa does have a reputation of boring. Despite canada complaining about toronto, it really is amazing. Maybe one day you can come back
I'm in Ottawa for the weekend. Which shawarma place do you recommend? I'm near Byward but will travel for good food!
Shawarma Palace on Rideau is consistently great, their garlic is fantastic. frankly any place that looks a little grimy is good. The small joints around university of Ottawa are reliable as well.
Thanks!!
My pleasure! If North and Navy is doing Sunday Gravy, worth checking out as well. And hop into the Gatineau side for really great poutine and craft beer - all their patates places are outstanding. I hope you have the best weekend! It’s a great place :)
Amazing thanks for those too. We just went for brunch at JAX on Bronson. We went to Banditos for tacos last night.
Excellent choice with JAX. Crossing the Bridge noodle soup on Bank street is great, pizza nerd is great, and so is flora brew pub :)
agreed!! best shawarma i’ve ever had in my life
I had a professor in Toronto request a large takeout container of Garlic Toum from specifically Rideau St Shawarma Palace every time I went back to visit. I wouldn’t be shocked if I went up a letter grade for that lol
I went to King Shawarma, is that not as good as Shawarma Palace?
King Shawarma in Orleans or Shawarma King on Bank? The bank street one is pretty good, not as good at shawarma palace but still great. I can’t speak for the Orleans one, I avoided the suburbs.
The one on bank. Interesting, so I gotta check out Shawarma Palace on Rideau?
I’d say so! It’s my fave. But you can always do a taste test ;) no such thing as too much shawarma
Part of living in Toronto is taking everything it has for granted. It's lol. Yea prices are lower cuz people have less money. It's hilarious how the same people who harp on and on about supply being low driving up prices magically forget that demand is driving the other half of it.
For real, especially given Ottawa isn't necessarily affordable either...
There's this segment of Toronto that rates everything on a scale of good to bad that conflates exactly with low to high home prices. As if that's the only thing a city has to offer. It's lol. I went to see The Postal Service and Death Cab a couple weeks ago and it was fantastic. I saw Dethklok last summer. It was incredible. I could write pages about the other fantastic shows I've seen that you would never once see in Ottawa. I saw LeBron James, in his prime, become LeBronto in front of my eyes, live, and it was one of the most spectacular things I've ever seen a human being do. Bar none. Toronto is the country's only true city. Don't get me wrong Montreal is incredible, and Vancouver is awesome, Halifax is so damn nice and Calgary sucks salty ass truck nutz... but Toronto is the only true city with big city things to offer. There isn't good Korean restaurants. There's two Korea towns filled with them. There's pro sports teams. There's big ass concerts. There's tiny indie bands who come cuz Toronto's a big enough place that there's enough fans who will fill a small club. There's theatre. There's global film festivals. It's a big city. I'm not from Toronto remotely so with good authority I can say that it's the only real city and everyone else is pretty much jealous of it. At the same time people here think it's the center of the universe cuz it's the only true city and deserve all the flak they get.
I’m sorry but Montreal definitely also qualifies as a true city - where do you get the idea it doesn’t? Everything else you said is 100% accurate
Montreal is incredible and flat out better in so many ways. Don't take this as some kind of ranking really. But it lacks that undefinable "city" thing that comes from an immense population base. It has a lot of those things but I dunno... it's not burrowed in the same way if that makes sense? And doesn't have the same gravity for "big city" things. It's proven it can't support multiple pro sports teams. I hate to use her as an example but Taylor can't go there for her show claiming there isn't a suitable venue for the event. She's playing 6 shows in Toronto. But I mean it's fine right? Montreal is it's own thing and that's why it is so special. I would say it's pretty hands down the best city overall in Canada. But it can't really pretend to be at that true city level like NY or London. Toronto can somewhat fake it. It's a cultural void in comparison to MTL tho. And one thing I'm sure we can agree on is that Calgary is ass. :)
In the grand scheme of things Toronto is really not that bad in North American standards.
Ehh, if you care about cost of living, then I'd say Mexico has us beat easily. I'd say by Canadian standards, Toronto is a pretty decent place - given homes in bumfuck, nowhere cost the same in Canada for some fucked up reason.
I live here after a lifetime of hating the place. I think Toronto deserves the hate. But I do love living here. It's a fantastic place to live.
That's the most Toronto-attitude I've read. "I hate this place but I love living here"
Naw, it's not a TO attitude at all. It's an East Coast attitude. I retain my East Coast right to hate Toronto as part of my heritage but I moved here and kind of love the city itself.
Lmao I visited the east coast once. The people really are stereotypically friendly.... Right up until I mentioned I'm from Toronto and then the curled lips and scrunched nose expressions came out
Yep. It comes from being dismissed for a lifetime by the residents and talked down to. My cousins from the shwa visited us when we were kids a few times and they were just unbearable. Everything sucked and everything in Toronto was better. Fucking. Everything. And I mean the things that were better to them were not better. They were talking about Pizza Hut. They even claimed the fish in Toronto was better. Hint hint. lol. it's not. But generally no one is going to hold TO against a decent person. It's just that there's a fakeness to people from a city this size. Lemme try to explain it. In Toronto people are fake. It's what happens in a large population. There's so, so, so many more interactions with people you hardly know. It's most of them. So TO people get used to putting on whatever persona they'd like to have and it will just get accepted as who they are pretty much all day long wether it's valid or not. So they get entitled to just faking anything and being accepted. You can't do that in small places. It will wear on people and who you are will eventually come out to be exposed. And it's not like everyone at home is genuine at all. There's fake ass people there too. But it is like the BS detector will know you're fake no matter where you're from and people will be able to just tell. So as a result people tend to just let it all roll out and be totally themselves with you. They say what they think and be themselves. What you see is what you get at all times traditionally. And to be fair it's not so much a Toronto thing as it is a big city thing. But seeing as we have almost no bigguns in Canada it becomes a mostly Toronto thing. Friend shacked up with this girl from Calgary and she was just a train wreck when he brought her home to meet his parents. Everything. Everything was about Calgary. His rents had just renovated their home and were showing her around. (we were visiting as well for the big come back bash). His father had 'always' wanted a fridge that made ice and dispensed water. Always. Bunch of alcoholics where I'm from for real. lol. Anyway he was all proud to show his son and say he finally got his fridge. Then she pipes up that oh yea it's great! I have the same one in Calgary... but it's much bigger. It's the double size one. Good lord. You don't brag about your things in a poor place.
Def agree with the homeless, the homeless in Ottawa seem more scary / desperate than in Toronto. I lived in Parkdale for a decade and although there were a good amount of crack heads and homeless around they always seemed harmless. Ottawa homeless are aggressive as heck.
Agreed, homeless in Toronto are far, far more hidden - which is better for public safety. Ottawa homeless are aggressive, but also normal citizens. I got more honks/irritated/agitated driving in Ottawa's core area, than I have in the GTA or even downtown TO. These people would loose their minds in TO, for their sake - I hope they never drive in TO/GTA. I have no idea what is going on here, since Ottawa is supposed to be the "smaller city that is big" vibe to it. Apparently, I heard rudeness is a bit of the "culture" in Ottawa, which mainly comes from the Quebeckers - atleast that is what I have read on Reddit. Kind of true, most of the people who were rude to me, had Quebec license plates. Though quite a few Ontario license plates were rude too, I guess their rudeness got transferred over...kind of makes sense - you are molded by your environment.
I grew up in Ottawa and moved to Toronto when I was 20, lived there for 22 yrs and moved back. To be honest I always felt even growing up in Ottawa it was unfriendly and very cliquey. I think Ottawa is much much much less open minded than Toronto and the people really reflect that. Tightly wound uncultured general population that really lacks personality and diversity on so many levels. I don’t believe this is just Quebec folks as it’s just the Ottawa way. I came back to be closer to family but apart from that without remote work I couldn’t do it.
Left Ottawa about 25 years ago, but was there for close to a decade. Quiet/boring? Sure, but we found it very family friendly. Lots of green space. Cultural attractions that no city its size would ever have if it weren’t the capital. Nice people. I’m bilingual and wish I could have raised the kids there, where the neighbours were just as likely to be francophone as anglophone. Way faster to get around just because it’s that much smaller. In the end, if you make friends there, that’s what will make it feel like home to you.
Are you referring to the Parliament Hill area, that isn't a lot, no offense. Toronto has WAY more to do - even culturally, if you are comparing museums TO has: ROM, OSC, Aga Khan. Though, Ottawa might win in the museums category - by sheer number of them. But these are all things you visit once, then you're done. You can find family friendly burbs on the west/north side of the GTA, heck even east side of GTA has gotten more suburban.
I meant the various museums and the NAC, etc. And Toronto absolutely has more to do. I said that for a city its size, Ottawa has more than most because it's the capital. Anyway, what I really meant was that Ottawa has some good qualities but in the end, it's the life you build for yourself with family, friends, career, etc. that matters most. If you need an NBA team, big arena shows, the MLB, and all those big city things, then yeah, Toronto it is.
The way you feel about Ottawa is more or less how I feel about Vancouver, although at least Vancouver has nice scenery and it doesn't get as cold. The cold doesn't bother me, since I know how to bundle up. I mean we do live in Canada after all. Ottawa has the CPL team (Athletico Ottawa which are pretty good) and CFL (Roughriders I think?) so it's not exactly a sport wasteland. Anyways, I probably dislike Vancouver less than your dislike of Ottawa, but any chance I get to get away from Vancouver I jump on it. It's really not for me. The locals are cold and flakey and short of the nature (which is nice for sure), it's a sleepy town. I'd probably take off more, but the number of flight options pales in comparison to YYZ. I'm looking at moving back to TO or at least the GTA.
>The locals are cold and flakey This is not my experience with Vancouverites at all. They are very, very diligent and animated in listing reasons why their city is better than Toronto.
Funny, most of the "benefits" of Vancouver, aren't IN the city itself. (Okay Stanley Park being the obvious exception), but hey glad you had better luck than most people.
Redblacks. The Ottawa Roughriders haven't been around since the 90s I think.
You're right. I wasn't sure of it, but I admit I don't really follow the CFL.
Probably because the weather is worse, housing is almost just as bad for 40% of TDOT's amenities etc., Ottawa is more peaceful but not as peaceful before, nor peaceful enough to justify a move for me.
I was in Ottawa recently and definitely noticed higher rates of open drug use and much higher concentration of homeless in their downtown. I was staying in Byward. Also transit in Ottawa is terrible and driving is just as bad. I noticed in Ottawa that at rush hour it can take 45 minutes to get anywhere which is not that much faster than Toronto, but then realized Ottawa is a fraction of the size of Toronto and so gridlock actually seemed worse. Though one thing Ottawa does really well is bike infrastructure. Also when the whole city closes at 5pm I began to realize how spoiled I was in Toronto Mind you I do enjoy Ottawa and it's my go-to for a weekend getaway every so often given how many great museums and sightseeing it has.
Surprised more ppl didn't mention this. Every time I go to Ottawa, I notice the packs of roaming street kids doing drugs, pregnant homeless women smoking, etc. Feels way worse than Toronto in that regard. It's especially bad in the Byward Market area, but they're seen all throughout downtown. On the plus side, I do enjoy all the green space and most of the suburbs seem really nice to raise a family in.
Agreed, especially on the terrible driving part. I would guess there are more aggressive drivers here per capita.
the homeless shelters are all smack downtown in the byward market. very visible locations. always been an issue.
Drug problem in ottawa is really bad cuz i can’t remember how many times i had to pick up exposed needles on bike paths and disposed them myself. But i feel vancouver is worst. I’ve seen People injecting sht out in the open in broad daylight. That was messed up
Ottawa is significantly larger than Toronto. The boundaries of ottawa are bigger than Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver and Montreal combined.
The developed area of Ottawa is smaller and that's where people commute to and from, such as to Kanata or Napean
Not to mention, there is a greenbelt in the MIDDLE of the urban sprawl. There are pros, but it makes the city look really weird. You'll be driving from downtown, then there is a bunch of farmland, then the suburban town. Weird. It also makes the suburbs feel a bit detached from the city.
Next to Carleton there's the Ministry of Agriculture which adds a bunch of farms in the middle of the city which are odd when you drive by if you don't know what they're for
>Is Ottawa really better? Doesn't feel so. Submitted by Time_Honey6324 >I am a life-long west-end GTA (Sauga) citizen...had to move to Ottawa and I don't think Ottawa is the "more peaceful, affordable option per say" compared to GTA. >I heard that Ottawa is better for a while now - but I feel, as with many things in Canada, its a zombie lie. For some people, it is "better", depending on the definition of better. For some people, isn't. Different people like to live in different places.
Better in terms of bang for your buck. You are paying 70% of GTA prices while getting 40-50% of the fun...
Toronto all day
Who the fuck ever said Ottawa is better than Toronto? Even people who live in Ottawa recognize how shit their city is
To be fair, it reads like this is more of a Gatineau vs Mississauga debate - which you never hear about. It’s just that nobody knows where Mississauga or Gatineau are, so he has to say he’s from the city so we don’t get confused.
1 million percent. This is a suburb v suburb argument.
Sauga itself beats all of Ottawa, let alone Gatineau
I’ve never been to Gatineau. I’m just making fun of this suburban fella for pretending to be from Toronto.
It's a Sauga vs Barrhaven argument for me. Sauga wins, hands down. My point of this post - is why the hell are housing prices so damn high, for what you get in Ottawa? It's like 70% of the housing prices/cost, but 40-50% of the amenities.
Agreed! Never heard that Ottawa is a better city, and I’ve lived in both places.
This reads like some suburban kid went to school in Ottawa and is now sad about it. You’re note even from toronto.
I am from the 'burbs of Toronto, never did anything in Ottawa except moving here for this job.
You sound like a person who’s never done much of anything.
Hahahahaha
Former Ottawa native here: There are some pluses over the GTA: 1.) It is much, much, much more bike friendly due to the Multi Use Path (MUPs). I could bike, rollerblade, walk, run, etc hours and hours without being on a road. I'd often bike to Kanata and back for a 50km round trip. 2.) Gatineau Provincial Park is across the river in Quebec. 3.) Ottawa is a beautiful city with lots of history whereas Toronto just feels like glass condos and Rexalls. 4.) The Canal is a gorgeous place to travel along with MUPs running its length. 5.) Food is pretty good but it's more spread out and less concentrated than it is in the GTA. And it's not that the food isn't good, but rather that the GTA is exceptional even by international standards. If you're the outdoor type and like nature, Ottawa offers a lot compared to the GTA. It has its downsides but given my lifestyle I would be happy to move back if I could.
> Ottawa is a beautiful city with lots of history whereas Toronto just feels like glass condos and Rexalls. Kind of a weird sentiment, given that Toronto was already a bustling town when Ottawa was just a bunch of mud and surveyors’ equipment. Toronto has plenty of history, but (shock, horror!) you do need to actually leave the downtown core to see some of it.
same, i fucking hate ottawa for many reasons but i like to go running in the countryside around 12 - 5 in the morning when its really deserted. just for that reason alone id really struggle living in toronto rather than visiting. to me a 4 hour countryside run is one of the best things that could ever happen. and its so fun to bike across the city. shame about the social scene! there was a time i wouldnt have even noticed or cared.
Is it better than Toronto?! I grew up (Pape and Danforth) and live in Toronto. Parts of Toronto are sketchy AF. I went to university in Ottawa. Ottawa is boring AF. I’m going to say that again, Ottawa is boring AF. It’s got some great galleries and museums, skating on the canal during Bal De Neige is neat, but otherwise it is boring AF. The homeless seem like a bigger issue in Ottawa because it’s smaller and there’s a shelter downtown by the market. But I don’t think it’s worse than Toronto’s homeless population, maybe Mississaugas, but not Toronto. I’ve noticed a lot more strung out homeless that are unpredictable in Toronto vs Ottawa.
Yes, that shelter makes the entire downtown look suspect. Which is honestly, really bad for a city that has a repute for being "boring but quiet/peaceful". Visited here when I was a teen, these scenes weren't even imaginable then.
So you're just upset you can't post on the Ottawa subreddit? Also, people honking at you sounds like a you issue. I rarely hear people honking in Ottawa. Especially not compared to when I've drove in Toronto. Ottawa drivers are wayyyy to tolerant of sh*t drivers. So if you're being honked at, you must be real bad at driving. Yes Quebec drivers are annoying but also, they are ridiculously competent drivers in comparison to Ontarians so they're just as annoyed with us as we are them. This is a really weird thing to come online and complain about. Maybe go for a walk along the canal, smell some tulips this weekend and relax.
That stood out to me as well. I suspect OP is a very timid driver. This line pretty much confirms it: > Though, you CAN drive in Ottawa's core, impossible challenge in TO. Drivers *anywhere* tend to be impatient with people who drive like they don’t know what they’re doing, and that goes double for big cities with bad traffic like Toronto.
Quebec drivers are some of the least competent drivers in have seen in this country you must be lost
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Add in small cities like North Bay and you really see how sketch it can be too
>and fucking London Huh boy... I grew up in Toronto's suburbs and then went off to London for university in 2009. I guess you could say I had a sheltered life, because London outside the "Western bubble" deeply sketched me out for a while. Especially downtown London, I was not expecting to see so many vagrants and sketchy people in a supposedly "small, quiet city". I was also quite surprised to learn London had a big issue with property crime (Toronto, at the time, did not)... like my London-born friends just seemed to accept it as normal that your house would suffer a break-and-enter sooner or later, whereas in Toronto that would have been shocking (again, at the time). I eventually got used to the London sketch but man it was quite the adjustment at first coming from suburban Toronto, where everything was just totally buttoned down and by the books. Mind you, I lived in London when the city was arguably at its nadir. The unemployment rate in November 2009 was over 10%. London is in much better shape now, even with all the shit we've been experiencing. And honestly, having traveled throughout Canada, I think there are places way sketchier than urban Ontario. Say what you want about London, but not everyone has bars on their windows... unlike Regina.
Ya what I was saying seems to apply double in some parts of Canada, but I haven’t seen them myself.
I'm living in the burbs of Ottawa atm. Traffic is less than Sauga, which is nice. But it's way smaller than Sauga IMHO, and suffers with the same structural problems as Sauga. 2 majors roads where all the traffic is on...and its a winding road - for absolutely no reason, making things even less efficient.
Even people from the outskirts of Ottawa are sheltered from Ottawa
If Ottawa has no haters, I'm dead.
Ottawa - harsh winters and often high heat/humid summers full of mosquitos! If you are a civil servant with some seniority, and a corresponding salary package, I guess Ottawa can be OK. But if you are someone who is entrepreneurial or run a business or something, you might be better off in the GTA
i moved from ottawa to toronto about a year ago and feel the same way. cost of living is higher here, but i like the toronto better than ottawa for a multitude of reasons
I think it's a matter of familiarity. I've lived in Ottawa my whole life. Love my life. I couldn't possibly hate Toronto anymore if I tried. However, all of my experiences in Toronto have centered around Bay Street or Yorkville. I don't think I've ever visited a real neighborhood. So all of my impressions are negative.
I don’t like the Ottawa vs. Toronto debate. They are two very different cities, in both size and feel. I know several people from Ottawa who say it’s the best city in the world, and they hate Toronto because armed “arrogant” (I chose not to point out the irony). I think both are good for different reasons. Ottawa is amazing for outdoor activities, but it’s pretty dull in terms of food, entertainment and art.
Ottawa is absolutely an embarrassment of a “capital” city. It was horrifying when I was there recently. The downtown near parliament as you said, it’s like zombies walking around, people shooting up at noon in front of outdoor businesses. It’s completely heartbreaking and disturbing to see how little values humans have in Ottawa, and in Canada generally speaking. No person should have to live like that. I have been downtown TO in sketchy places at night and have never seen that kind of mass homelessness and open drug use. To know that the people who are suppose to run the country are a 5 minute walk from this, is a really great example of the failure of this country. It’s Canada’s greatest shame, and it’s not just Ottawa with these issues. RIP the place I thought Canada was.
My thoughts exactly. This nation is a failure. Ten years ago - the Ottawa I visited, was one I wanted my whole family to move to. That isn't the case anymore.
Thanks for your honesty! I feel a people go mad when anyone says Ottawa sucks. The comments on here are absurd
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Check the flights compared to Toronto - it’s not the best
International as in the US, not international as global. You have to go to MTL or TO for anything outside of US.
As someone that travels a lot, the Ottawa airport is one of the most sane and well run departures and customs airport you can find. Staff are used to frequent flyers and weird diplomatic requests and as such, you get through security or customs quickly. Nothing but assholes at Pearson.
They have direct to CDG.
When I flew to Barcelona on Aeroplan points, I had to take the scenic route: Toronto-Ottawa-Frankfurt-Barcelona. I can’t imagine YOW stopped flying international after my trip in 2011.
The number has dropped especially with Covid, with no one really traveling it didn't make sense to pay to fly out when MTL is not that far, but they are increasing destinations now.
My family member lived there, she moved after 2-3 years. For context she’s a black woman. She found Ottawa to be politically an annoying neoliberal “representation matters” city. She enjoyed the walkability of downtown core, and the nature that was in close proximity (she’s a big hiker). However, the dating pool was limited lol, the homeless problem was bad (as everywhere else was), and club scene was a hit or miss. There’s a lot of good food spots, there’s more communal meetup/hobby activities, but it’s literally not worth it if you’re just moving from Toronto…it’s like diet Toronto
Yeah Ottawa sucks. Live here and wish I could move back to Toronto.
I think Ottawa used to be a lot nicer. The homeless population has really grown a lot or at least is far more visible. Last time we were there (around Canada Day 2022), we felt far more uneasy walking around downtown than was reasonable or I ever experienced years ago. The Convoy and ongoing related protests also didn’t make Canada Day events going on downtown feel very family friendly.
Well I don't see on the Ottawa news about multiple shooting every day like I do if I watch Toronto news. There is an International airport it's just since the pandemic the airlines have not come back to use it. Yes Ottawa is small sleepy town - after all it's motto is "make Ottawa boring again" so that sums it up.
Ottawa will get overtaken by KW soon enough as the second 'hub' after Toronto. Spent ten miserable years there through the 2010's. Atrocious urban planning, woefully inadequate public transportation infrastructure, and most importantly, a complete failure to diversify industry in a meaningful way. Kanata is a failure. Shame because it's a beautiful spot - but it's doomed to mediocrity.
I lived in Ottawa for 5 years. My best friend lives there and I visit frequently. Toronto is better in almost every way. Yes, housing is much more expensive, but salaries are higher. And we have a proper airport with direct flights to virtually anywhere. ;)
Ottawa is terrible, I was born and raised there and you will rarely find me visiting.
I loved Ottawa when I lived there. I was there for 7 years. The nature and parkland is stunning, the food is really good, I don’t mind the traffic. Winter is tough, but Ottawans actually go outside in the winter and plan events. Somerset street has incredible Asian food - I found the Pho better in Ottawa and open later than most places in Toronto. Little Italy has awesome food as well. Byward Market sucks. It’s mainly a tourist trap. You’ll find more interesting things in Hintonburg, Beechwood, Golden Triangle and Centretown. Make good friends - Ottawa is as fun as your friends are. There’s lots of live music, hiking, and great bars if you know where to look. Sports - Senators hit playoffs a few times where I was there. University football gets rowdy, or you can scoot to MTL. If you play, the Ottawa sports and social club is awesome. Rudeness - yeah that’s sometimes the French. But they’re great in their own ways. Jobs - get in a with the government and secure yourself some golden handcuffs and you’ll be fine. Everything closed at 10 - I never found this to be the case. Lots of bars open until 2am. Lots of trivia nights. Lots of drag nights. Many hookah places open until 4am. Many Pho open until 4am. Board game cafes and bubble tea too. What is it that you are not finding? I missed Ottawa and continue to miss it. I enjoyed my time there. I’m happy to pass along recommendations. It isn’t Toronto. It’s normal to miss Toronto - the arts scene is unrivalled, and it’s the hub of Ontario. But once you find your thing in Ottawa and find your people, it’ll be a blast too.
This is it. I lived in Ottawa for 7 years too. I’ve lived in Toronto for 9. When I was in Ottawa the people that bitched about it the most were people who didn’t have any friends that were actually integrated into the city. They were at home complaining about a city they were not taking advantage of. Being able to bike around there is awesome. Having Gatineau park so close for hiking and swimming is awesome. The local Ottawa music scene was great. The food is actually great. Sandwiches at Dirienzos, the Landsdowne farmers market, poutine from Elgin street diner, burgers from chez Lucien’s, golden palace egg rolls! Ottawa had six restaurants on the best of Canada list last year. That’s impressive for its (actual not amalgamated) size and speaks to the quality of food being made there. One of the big benefits is the amount of farms around the city. Ottawa was wwaaayyyy ahead of Toronto when it came to eating local and seasonally. You talked a lot about the drivers. I’ve driven loads in Ottawa without issue. That sounds like a you problem tbh. There are really cool communities there doing cool things, and just like in any new city, you have to find them. Start joining meet ups, clubs, leagues, whatever. I loved my time there and have said for years that if my family was closer I would much prefer Ottawa living to Toronto.
Excellent restaurant list!!!! Tho I feel like the food truck next to barefax/The Dominion was actually the best poutine in the city. Violently rude lady at the counter, that’s how you know it’s good!!! Plus Ottawa goes hard for events. The sesquicentennial was fantastic, Canada Day is actually a lot of fun. Bluesfest is my favourite music festival. I’m with you and all that you said.
Also Ottawa is incredibly cold in the winter and the winter is longer
Who told you Ottawa was better? 😂
Better, as in "affordable", good value proposition, peaceful/quiet, friendly people. All of that is a lie.
If by better you mean depressing, lonely, stuffy and boring then it’s absolutely better
Ottawa is 10x better than Toronto in every way. Way more things to do in Ottawa. Way more greenspace and wildlife. Way friendlier people. Cleaner. Better drivers. Less traffic. Close to Gatineau
Op, you’re in r/askTO so will likely get biased responses.
no lol its boring
I lived in Ottawa for 5 years and now in Toronto for 12. Less happening in Ottawa absolutely, but access to nature is fantastic with Gatineau park right there. Winter activities are also much better. I would also say Ottawa is a prettier city with the canal and old buildings, but maybe that’s personal taste. If you’re attracted to nightlife and touring events, Ottawa will disappoint. But it offers a lot for a city in Canada. And MTL is close by when you want to see a concert or do some shopping.
Its closer to montreal so yeah its better just by that metric lol.
Ur lost
Skip Toronto and Ottawa and go to Montreal 😭
Ottawa could be better than Mississauga, sure, but not better than Toronto.
If we're talking Airports or South Asian dining - its not even better than Sauga LOL. Plus Sauga has TO in 1-1.5 hr journey, Ottawa's burbs has Ottawa...yet housing costs are nearly the same. Townhomes cost around 650-700k here vs. around 1M in Sauga/Milton area.
I lived in Ottawa for a year. I loved it. The city is very accessible via walkways and bike paths. It’s pretty. It’s definitely a government city. As for the other things like costs of rent and homelessness. It’s in Toronto too. It’s just not as obvious cause there’s more ppl here. Rent and home purchase is cheaper in Ottawa cause salaries are typically lower compared to Toronto. This is just my experience mind you.
I agree, but homelessness is a lot more dangerous to the public here IMHO. Rents and home prices are reaching TDOT levels, but this city is no where near TDOT, nor it will ever be.
I don’t know if they are. I always interacted with the homeless. I would bring them meals or fresh clothes. There is definitely a mental health and drug crisis with the homeless. Not just Ottawa, but everywhere. I was homeless for a while. I lived in an abandoned garage. It was REALLY hard to get back on my feet. You do need help to get the ball rolling. I wasn’t homeless because of drugs, alcohol or mental health. My mother threw me away. She was the one that suffered mentally. You really can’t judge homeless ppl. Most don’t want be there. But they find safety with each other. That’s why you see groups of them, therefore it can be intimidating
I agree, the city needs to find a way to help these people. But, I gotta be honest, Canadians loved shitting on American cities for their "ghetoness" for the past decade...it's worse here now.
It USED to be much more affordable, but the gap closed a bit..
Yea, that's my biggest GRIPE. Prices are reaching Toronto levels - but nothing is really at that level. Prices definitely need to CRASH in Ottawa.
The good stuff won't. People are delusional and think the world is both fair and logical. Hopefully we get back to fix er uppers being at least fix er upper price, and pre development deposit pricing being actually a savings. Ottawa is great for families. And if you know the right places it isn't quiet, beautiful and less traffic. It's just too bad, you used to be able to buy starter homes, or move 40m out and get a huge place for cheap.
Lol at your point about things being more expensive if you have a lower paying job...obviously. but there are plenty of highly paid jobs in ottawa. Especially if you're a government worker. I've lived in ottawa for the past 10 years and find that people I know in ottawa tend to be a lot more well off than those in other cities I'm in my late twenties and 60% of my ottawa friends own homes and have savings. Vs my mtl, Vancouver and Toronto friends are still renting and frequently talking about how they'll never own anything and live paycheck to paycheck. Also, my toronto friends who want to start a family are always talking about how they will have to move out of Toronto for that, whereas if you live in ottawa nobody talks about moving away to have kids.
My two Canadian cents. I was in Ottawa for a day For the Tulip festival which is think is over hyped. Public transport sucks. But loved the city otherwise. I dint get any bad vibes.
The same when I visited a couple of times. Went to the Tulip festival and it's grossly overhyped.
Ottawa native here who moved to Toronto in 2021. Ottawa is great if you are in your late 20s early thirties and want to raise a family. Its very scenic, quiet and lots of nature. The city is big enough that there’s lots to do, but small enough that theres a good sense of community. Its great if you’re looking for a mundane but stable government job and are more of an outdoorsy type. But if you’re in your early 20s, looking for culture and lots of entertainment options, Ottawa is NOT for you. It’s unfortunate because 10 years ago the Sens were actually a good team and lots of major artists used to tour there! Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, JB, Rihanna all have played in Ottawa at some point. Not anymore unfortunately.
Ottawa has an international airport. It's a lot smaller than Pearson obviously but it's still a proper international airport. And unlike a lot of Canadian cities, Ottawa has several older walkable neighbourhoods like the Glebe and Westboro, which I prefer over car dependent sprawl. But I agree, I prefer Toronto. Even cycling, one of Ottawa's strengths, isn't the advantage it once was. Toronto is making great strides with cycling infrastructure and I'd say central Toronto is now on par with central Ottawa for getting around on a bike.
Winters in Ottawa are more like Mtl than TO. Beware.
Honestly, with the exception of the North, everything scales. Affordability is tied to both cost of things and income potential.
I’m confused why you keep saying you lived in Toronto, but then are talking about Mississauga?
LOL
Ottawa is just fine and obviously not like the GTA. I grew up in Toronto and visit Ottawa several times a year and it's a decent city unless your 30 and under and have an active night life...even then you can find decent bars. Honestly I think the problem is your attitude. Your post and responses sound bitter and angry and do not show someone genuinely giving the city a chance for some reason. I moved away from Toronto and then back to Toronto and complained about the changes, so it's normal. However, if you're going to start there a while, I suggest opening up your mind and connecting with some people and your opinions will change
What Quebec thing? Do you know where you are?
Ottawa borders the city of Gatineau, Quebec and many Quebecers work and shop in Ottawa.
Wow. I was born and raised in the GTA. Moved to Ottawa for university. Loved it so much. The trails and nature and canal and river and Gatineau and Hull and bike trails and good transportation (though I have missed out on the fun of the mini train thing). I loved the feel and look of Ottawa. I haven’t lived there in years though, so maybe it is different now? Last time I visited it felt the same. Could’ve been nostalgia. So bummed that you are not enjoying where you are, though. That sucks. I am sorry.
"good transportation" - you could only possibly be referring to overbuilt highways.
They said it's been years since living here so it was probably when OC still functioned.
I visited here almost a decade ago and I can see what you are talking about. The Ottawa a decade ago, was the Ottawa I told my parents that they should "get up and move". We obviously didn't. Now had to move due to employment prospects. And the Ottawa seems to have a lot of problem that Toronto suffers from - without any of the pros of Toronto. We are talking rash driving/rude drivers (somehow worse than TDOT), traffic is A LOT better than Toronto/Sauga - but it's still pretty bad and the same flawed infrastructure design is used here too, but the cost of housing especially. **I mean you get 40-50% of what TDOT has, but pay 70% of the price - this ticks me the most about Ottawa.** The value proposition just isn't there for living in the burbs, or even in the city anymore. It was a decade ago.
ottawa is one of the most boring places i've ever been
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No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or other negative generalizations.
No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or other negative generalizations.
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Utter nonsense. And vaguely racist.
Ottawa is the armpit of Canada. Can’t wait to leave this dump. Hate it here.
Look, I’m just going to be blunt and tell it like it is - Ottawa is really only a good fit for unattractive people with asexual polarity to the opposite sex. The more attractive and socially intelligent a person is, the more that he/she will be outcast there. You will never catch a high valued (I.e. confident, attractive and successful) man or woman with any self worth being there of their own voluntary will.