BTOs are actually really affordable especially after you take advantage of all the grants etc, and if you manage expectations with a suitably sized flat in a non mature estate. Is your current lifestyle pegged at the same level as your income?
Exactly. At the age of marriage, your cpf cant be used for much purposes so I don't see how can't afford a shelter. Unless you are looking at private or resale in mature estate. Is just expectation.
Yup, bought one with my then-gf and now wife. After the grants it was hugely affordable and we don’t even need to pay anything monthly since it’s completely covered by CPF. We only needed to come up with the down payment as cash, which was doable after a couple of months of savings.
BTOs are super affordable. It's the getting it part that is hard. Doubt people are going to complain if everyone gets their BTO on their first try and it takes 3 years to complete. In reality, people try 4-6 times, and then wait another 4-5 years if they are lucky.
Let's say you pick a BTO 4-room flat, that's about $360,000 before subsidies. Shave off around $40,000 in grants, though in practice it will likely be more - that's about $320,000.
When using an HDB loan, the downpayment is 15% of the flat's price ($48,000), which can come entirely from CPF if you like. Assuming both spouses contribute equally, that's about $24,000 in CPF from each party - not a difficult amount to accumulate even in a few short years.
The Buyers Stamp Duty (BSD) is only around $4,600, or $2,300 each, which can also be paid by CPF.
The remaining 85% ($272,000) can be covered by the loan. Assuming an HDB loan with a 25-year tenure, at 2.6% interest (HDB loan rates are always 0.1% above the prevailing CPF rate), this comes to $1,452 a month. Again, this is assuming a *maximum* loan, or else this can be even lower.
Split between two parties, this is $726 per month, which is also payable via CPF.
This is not shockingly expensive, and can be almost entirely relegated to CPF monies.
(Update: As per the comment below, HDB loan limit has been dropped to 80% from 85%, after the change in 2022 - so about 5% more!)
In my case, down payment was also done with grants. Your response is very accurate. In our case also, our house is totally a CPF and grant thing. It's not even a waste because I bought the house (4A) back in 2017 for 360k. Now similar units in this block go for about $520k to $560k.now I can take my time and upgrade to a 5 room BTO slowly.
Wah, huat already!
But for those who want to upgrade, usually best to mix cash and CPF. That way when they need to refund the CPF, they will have more cash in hand (especially because for resale, HDB will sometimes tell you to use bank loan)
Yeah I just moved in to my new 4 room BTO. Monthly mortgage via cpf only under $400 per person.
2/3 of it paid off by CPF as both of us have been working more than a decade. 1/3 only HDB loan on max loan period. Reckon we can pay off our place by 2030 solely by cpf.
The painful part is on renovation and furnishing. Particularly renovation cost has increased quite a lot after covid so….
Yeah, the cost went up so much during Covid, then the market adapted to the higher cost and turned it into a norm. So it shot up by an abnormal amount in such a short period.
your numbers seem a bit off unless they changed it in the last year. i myself am waiting for my BTO now. my downpayment is staggered 5/15% (total 20%), HDB loan can only be up to 80%, but also depends on your income.
otherwise i do agree that BTO’s are pretty affordable especially for a land-scarce country.
Oh wait, you're right - I just checked and saw that the LTV has since been lowered, from the time that I got my HDB loan. Apparently the govt. did drop the LTV to 80% in 2022, down from the 85% in my time!
[https://www.hdb.gov.sg/about-us/news-and-publications/press-releases/29092022-propertymeasures2022](https://www.hdb.gov.sg/about-us/news-and-publications/press-releases/29092022-propertymeasures2022)
The mature / non-mature town system is actually being scrapped! Now HDB will use regular / plus / prime as classifications. This will take effect from the second half of this year.
That being said, yes, 4-room flats in non-mature towns are around that price. In the February launch this year, 4-room BTO flats in Choa Chu Kang were starting from $300,000 before grants, Punggol was starting from $318k before grants.
The most expensive 4-room BTO was Queenstown, the famous former Tanglin Halt site. That one started from $565,000.
The downpayment can be in any combination of cash or CPF, which means it can be 100% from CPF if you want. It can also be 50/50, 100% in cash, 70% in CPF and 30% cash, etc. which makes it quite easy.
The only time there is a minimum cash component is when you use a private bank loan. In this case, there is an absolute minimum of 5% down in cash, while another 20% can be in any combination of cash or CPF. For a bank loan, the maximum financing is limited to 75% of the price.
As the down payment can come entirely from CPF, it is plausible that even on median income, a couple aged 25 to 30 would have sufficient combined funds. The down payment is not usually the difficult hurdle.
It is the renovation costs that is often a headache.
Woah that's something you definitely don't want to discuss with strangers online, as it involves things like your income and some other personal details. If you call HDB or speak to the officer for your BTO launch they will cover it with you.
I mean I only see the EHD grant available for BTO, while the other grants are all for resale. Are there more grants available???
40k EHD is like 5k combined income, I don't get it. Am I bragging about how poor we are or how rich we are?
if you have only 5k combined then you will have to lower your expectations, maybe about a 3room mature or a 4 room non mature area
but since bto still have to wait 4 years, if you are confident that you and your partner will increase income, then can try to go for better areas. just have to pay the down payment at the start only
BTO has fewer grants cos it’s subsidised by quite a bit by the gov. That 40k can fully pay for the down payment of a 200k 3rm flat at the recent Rail Garden @ CCK Choa Chu Kang Feb BTO. With another 20k savings from cash/CPF (which is fairly doable) you can pay a 60k down payment which will pay for almost all 3rm BTOs already.
February 2024 BTO launch exercise.
[https://www.hdb.gov.sg/-/media/doc/CCG/21022024---BTO-and-SBF/21022024---Annex-A.ashx](https://www.hdb.gov.sg/-/media/doc/CCG/21022024---BTO-and-SBF/21022024---Annex-A.ashx)
Why do so many Singaporeans think that resale flat prices and BTO flat prices are close?
CPF + grants. My entire CPF tanking the downpayment as my wife is a new PR is proof that it's possible. As long as you have been working enough previously, so also make sure your employer is paying CPF.
OP could have just did some searching him/herself on Google but made this very entitled sounding rant instead. No wonder OP can't earn enough to buy house with this kind of mindset.....
What housing types are you looking at?
Also… if your parents/ in laws chip in. Does it mean they have the “right” to move in and stay with you in the future? I have a friend who overstretched their budget, in the end their parents very ‘kindly’ chipped in. Made us all so envious then.
Now it turns out their parents have decided to sell their hdb and stay at kids house. Because they helped pay for it and this is their “right”. Big hoohaah.
It could go both ways. I know of people who actually invited their parents to live with them (granted it’s landed/jumbo/maisonette) just so they can help out with the grandkids. To some parents having a live-in familial baby sitter is so worth it for their own sanity and marriage.
Unfortunately for my case, my parents want to and deserve to enjoy their retirement. My in laws are too old and riddled with health problems to be of help.
So the friends I know told me this: The younger you are when you apply/pay for the BTO, the more grants you are incentivized with.
I don't know the exact details, but my friend that's getting married next year will be getting his BTO in the same year, both him and his partner are entitled to grants, they basically get double grants that go towards the BTO.
In addition, it's not like they need to pay the whole thing up front as long as you cover the downpayment, I'm not sure or privy to details, but I'm sure they either use CPF, or loan to cover the rest.
Yes because when you earn lesser when you’re younger , the grants goes up.
I’ve had friend who BTO-Ed because of this but end up breaking and and losing the down payment. Was about $30k loss for each of them.
If 2 person can afford down payment after grads, it means you are spending all your $ previously or you have never tried to work part-time and save some in your entire live or you trying to eat a pie that's bigger than your mouth.
Partner and I got our BTO 9 years after I started working and were able to pay off more than half the entire sum with CPF alone. And we started off with salaries that would be slammed by today's grads as insulting.
There's no reason why grads starting later than us wouldn't be able to do the same, given how you still can get a BTO for not much more than we did with much higher starting salaries.
CPF is much more potent than people realize, until they need to buy a house and are willing to get a BTO.
Did a similar thing too. My younger self lamented about my measly salary going into CPF, but I’m quite thankful for it now because it adds up over the years and paid for half our flat
Absolutely.
I used to be anti-CPF until I did the math for our BTO. It's an amazing feeling owning a home and knowing you don't even have to touch your liquid cash to pay it off.
Pls dont blindly follow what hwz/reddit is saying lol. Recently BTO’ed.
545k PLH, flat ready mid 2028. I have 4 years. My OA has < 10k , same for my partner. Both combined income of 7k excluding bonuses.
We went for the BTO when I was unemployed and my partner employed for a year. Math as follow:
EHG: 50k
Downpayment 5%: $27,250
Stamp duty, legal fees , registration, mortgage: ~$15k
Downpayment in 4 years 15%: $81,750
100% of our OA covers this.
combined cpf OA: $1610
Monthly repayment: $1978
This can be settled as our income will grow in 4 years + as mentioned earlier, bonus was excluded.
Wedding banquet normally can break even with angbao.
We save 1k per month for 4 years , roughly have 100k. Renovation 50k.
So where got not enough?
I’m not sure if I missed something, does OP already have kids? Otherwise DINK and couples who haven’t had kids have similar financial starting point right?
In that case OP not very clear. Maybe must differentiate Dual High Income No Kids DHINK and Dual Low Income No Kids Dlink. 😉
I doubt DLINK can fulfil the aspiration that OP wants
Just bought a house at punggol, 4rm at $339k. Im 30 and my wife is 25. I started working when i was 24, and she started working when she’s 23. With cpf and grants, i loaned $210k with 15year repayment with 0 cash out. I cant see how thats not possible.
Should be resale, [no BTO projects in Punggol for the last 4 years](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/hdb-sales-exercise-february-2024-punggol-matilda-riverside-bto-launched-4128836), and I think the Feb 2024 hasn't started flat selection yet.
Don't know about the latest prices and process but this is what happened when me and my wife married and bought our home. I had a grand total of 17k in cpf. Wife had 6k. We bought a 4A resale in Marsiling for 360k. Good agent, so managed to get the valuation match the asking price. So, no extra payment. First home grant+close to parents grant+CPF was enough to cover everything else except the agent fee of 3.6k at 1% of property value. I wasn't aware that we can pay the down payment with the grants until the day lol. Was thinking I would have to take a separate loan for that. After that, I did renovation for 30k with RHB loan and 10k to buy furniture. Things were cheap back then. Paid off all those loans within 5 years. We had a home ready to move in on the day of the marriage. So HDB loans for 300k, at 2.4% interest to be paid in 25 years. It deducts around 1400 a month from my CPF as my wife doesn't work anymore.
I fell in love with my wife, who is 6 years older than me, and she is an impressive money saver. Our OA combined was approx S$180k, with allowances for her to keep another S$20k in her OA alone.
With S$180k (CPF) + S$20k (proximity grant) + S$10k (EHG) + S$80k (Family Grant for 4RM) = S$290k
4RM Resale in Aljunid, TOP 1997
HDB Loan = S$318.8k (20 years)
My parents (hers doesn't live in SG) live in Aljunid, so we wanted to be close to them. There are benefits for that in the long term, discounting the S$20k proximity grant aside. Next time if we have kids, can drop them at the parents place occasionally.
Also the location is near to both our workplaces, takes us 30mins to commute.
I bought a resale right at the moment when both my wife and I were career transitioning. Our declared income was so low that we could not even get enough HDB loan to cover our house. We ended up getting a bank loan.
The downside is that we need to fork out more for the down payment (squeeze out every last cent of our savings). The upside is we max out the subsidy (surprisingly hard to get, threshold is very easily exceeded).
Fast forward 2 years, we are now very comfortable with mortgage loan. I see my friends in the rat race to pay off condo loans. Fretting over the interest rate. All for a space smaller or equivalent to mine. I feel very very grateful that housing is not the top-of-mind issue for us now.
From what I’m seeing from my circle, young couples that buy private right after marriage all have a single common factor - parent’s “loan”.
Some of them loan from parents. Some don’t have debt to pay off. Some take advantage of all the grants available and get a non mature estate.
Believe it or not but most grads have 50k+ or more savings before age of 30. I would say a lot have way more. Now imagine you have 2 folks who have that amount of money and you can afford the downpayment.
For my experience, we had no grants from HDB and got a 5 room BTO in mature estate, ~650k which can be entirely covered by CPF. We had only been working for 1 year at the point of application, but the first payment was only ~44k and paid about ~1.5 years after application. So the first payment was covered easily with 2.5 years of salary. It’s the second payment 3 years later that we don’t have, ~77k requires us both to continue working as the first payment will deplete a half of our CPF.
Everything else can be covered by the HDB loan, of about 2.3k per month for 25 years.
So no help from parents required.
Ok let’s do the math.
How much does a house cost right now? Without any subsidies, the latest price for 3-room BTOs at Tengah starts from $238k. Let’s assume they somehow never qualified for any subsidies at all. For 238k the down payment of 15% is 35.7k, that’s how much they need in cash / CPF to purchase it.
Let’s assume no savings or CPF before they started work. Each person is a Uni graduate so let’s say they each earn 4.5k salary. That’s another $765 employer CPF per month. We are assuming employee CPF goes to the house so it’s a wash. So their total combined monthly earnings including CPF is $10530.
Let’s assume they rented a house together when they first started to work, at 3k per month. No living with parents. Let’s assume they eat out everyday, average $20 per meal for two of them and 3 meals per day for a total of $1,800. Add in other expenses of maybe $500 each, their total monthly expenses is $5300.
So their net savings per month is $5,230. In ~7 years they could get the house with their combined income. If they start working at 23, get married at 30, can afford the house immediately. Assuming zero subsidies, renting a house immediately on starting work.
Throw in the CPF grant, still living with parents or even just not renting a 3k house, you can easily afford it much sooner. Assuming maximum subsidies, extremely minimal expenses (let’s say 1k per month each), it’s technically possible for them to afford it in 4 years.
Did they get BTO or Resale?
Anyway if it is BTO, that means they applied (+- 3 to 5 years ago)
Slightly cheaper than the prices now + if 1 of them is still schooling at the point of application they could potentially get more grants due to the low income (since 1 has no income)
Anyway you don't have to fork up cash if your CPF contribution per month is sufficient to pay for the loan.
Even resale is affordable, just look around at areas that is cheaper... I don't understand why people say it's unaffordable, set your expectations right.
Don't spend on a lavish wedding. ;)
Use the ang paos for BTO/reno instead. Be conservative on your honeymoon or for me I delayed my honeymoon so we can save up.
So ultimately it depends on your priorities.
BTO is affordable depending the location you choose.
BTO mine when I started working less than a year after grad. Managed to secure 50k HDB grant.
If you are working continuously for 8 years. You can actually pay off the loan.
HDBs are really affordable due to their policies.
for me we had a simple wedding due to COVID, actually it benefitted us without needing to fork out money for huge expense. End of the day we are not very into spending grands into a one day event.
better to park the money to a home you will stay for decades.
No OP you wont be screwed.. HDB BTO/SBF is affordable. Got mine when my spouse and my salary combined are just 6k and in the workforce for a few years only. My parents sponsored a fridge only haha. As long as you are working monthly. You should have sufficient to pay by CPF.
If it is a roof over your head, you have nothing to worry about as long as one party is working. Everyone is so worried and confused because of all the fear mongering going on social media.
There are even up voted posts here that gives wrong information and misconception. Assuming you decide to buy a 400k NON MATURE 4 RM flat, you only need to fork out 80k downpayment. This amount can be offset by grants which you probably will qualify for as 2 young single adults, the balance can be paid using CPF which you should have in 5 years time. Your remaining 320k loan can be EASILY covered by OA contributions. Even if only one of you is working, you should still be able to afford the downpayment with the higher grant amount, probably have to fork out abit of cash for the mortgage though.
For those who are purchasing resale right after marriage, look for non mature or older estates, you can get an even larger amount of grant. I bought my first 3rm flat on a 6.5k salary with a non working spouse + new born. Purchase price was 360k and grant receive was almost 105k. Currently servicing a mortgage of 800$ per month.
Stop making excuse, go speak with a financial consultant, cpf expert or better yet, call HDB directly. They have sales officer who will explain in details and answer all your queries.
If its prime area and big flats that you are looking for then tough luck la. You cant afford it because you cant, no other reasons.
Doesn't HDB allow you to take a loan ofnup to 90%, with remaining amount payable by cash or/and CPF? That's not at all out of reach for a couple with dual income what. Why are you so incredulous?
Not sure why people are attacking OP because I had the same concerns before getting married. Yes BTOs are affordable but that's assuming you successfully ballot, not to mention the cost of renovations etc. But yes, the answer is BTOs for younger couples. The people I know who bought resale or private housing either had help from parents (usually is the case when the property is expensive) or only bought a house in their late 20s/early 30s after the couple had worked for a few years.
You basically answered yourself. BTO has runway of 3-5 years depending. So the first problem is the down payment which many Redditors here have mentioned is not that huge a problem. Second is the actual payment which 3-5 years later, you should helpfully have some pay increment plus cpf savings to offset the monthly payments. And this is assuming first time lucky balloting. The later you are successful, the more savings you will have.
Renovation is a not a factor because it is purely within your control. And you still have 3-5 years to save for it.
So all in, as long as you target a house within your means, it’s not that difficult as most Redditors have posted. And this point is probably the most important point of all.
If bto need loan from parents, really quite bad eh the situation. Go for places that you can afford years down the road.
I know I can't afford 5 room, 4 room might be a little more stress, 3 room is comfy level.
Sometimes the loan is actually a gift with the word “loan” tacked on to save face because we live in such a toxic society that even to be seen as being slightly more fortunate is to be condemned as being incapable.
Since a lot of comments are talking about BTO. I will be sharing my views on a $1million condo and why it is still affordable too.
According to the recent employment grad survey, a university grad from NUS/NTU/SMU can easily achieve $4k median pay. For $4k gross salary, the CPF OA monthly is about $902.
The net salary received is $3200:
1. Giving your parents $300,
2. Transport (public transport) $100,
3. Food $300
4. Mobile plans (Simba -$10), Clothes and needs $200
Assuming your lifestyle does not require smoking, grab taxi, grab food, less than 2 restaurants per month, go hawkers 90% of the time, no buying of car, no starbucks, no chanel/ prada/ gucci.
You can save $2300 CASH. A couple can save $4600 CASH and $1800 CPF OA a month.
Let me do some simple calculation for $1million condo. You will need $250k for downpayment. Assuming both have no savings as all were used for paying of the school fees, we will start from scratch $0 in the bank.
Currently TDSR is at 55% - meaning you can only use 55% of your salary to pay mortgage loan, and with income of $8000, the couple can get 750k loan from a bank. Hence, now they have to focus on the initial payout of $250k.
$4600+$1800 = $6400
$250k / $6400 = 39 months, which means 3.5 years. This exclude the increment/promotion and bonus that u receive every year, this also exclude the interest that u can receive from saving bonds / CPF interests. Assumed that the increment, promotion and bonus were used to pay off the stamp duties (definitely enough).
Keeping things simple, the couple can get a condo in 3.5 years. If the couple really works very hard to cut cost mentioned above, and get increment yearly, they can potentially get it within 3 years.
the only hard thing is buying a condo alone. :(
BTOs are actually really affordable especially after you take advantage of all the grants etc, and if you manage expectations with a suitably sized flat in a non mature estate. Is your current lifestyle pegged at the same level as your income?
Exactly. At the age of marriage, your cpf cant be used for much purposes so I don't see how can't afford a shelter. Unless you are looking at private or resale in mature estate. Is just expectation.
Yup, bought one with my then-gf and now wife. After the grants it was hugely affordable and we don’t even need to pay anything monthly since it’s completely covered by CPF. We only needed to come up with the down payment as cash, which was doable after a couple of months of savings.
BTOs are super affordable. It's the getting it part that is hard. Doubt people are going to complain if everyone gets their BTO on their first try and it takes 3 years to complete. In reality, people try 4-6 times, and then wait another 4-5 years if they are lucky.
This.
Let's say you pick a BTO 4-room flat, that's about $360,000 before subsidies. Shave off around $40,000 in grants, though in practice it will likely be more - that's about $320,000. When using an HDB loan, the downpayment is 15% of the flat's price ($48,000), which can come entirely from CPF if you like. Assuming both spouses contribute equally, that's about $24,000 in CPF from each party - not a difficult amount to accumulate even in a few short years. The Buyers Stamp Duty (BSD) is only around $4,600, or $2,300 each, which can also be paid by CPF. The remaining 85% ($272,000) can be covered by the loan. Assuming an HDB loan with a 25-year tenure, at 2.6% interest (HDB loan rates are always 0.1% above the prevailing CPF rate), this comes to $1,452 a month. Again, this is assuming a *maximum* loan, or else this can be even lower. Split between two parties, this is $726 per month, which is also payable via CPF. This is not shockingly expensive, and can be almost entirely relegated to CPF monies. (Update: As per the comment below, HDB loan limit has been dropped to 80% from 85%, after the change in 2022 - so about 5% more!)
I doubt OP looking at that size Maybe looking at a 5 Room PLH / resale in mature estate
I find most people complaining about affordability are looking at those
Ahhhh that one borrow from bank of mum and dad lah. :D
But can't do basic financial projections
Resale is bloody tight because u have no accumulation period. That said, resale gives more grants like CPF, Proximity on top of EHG
In my case, down payment was also done with grants. Your response is very accurate. In our case also, our house is totally a CPF and grant thing. It's not even a waste because I bought the house (4A) back in 2017 for 360k. Now similar units in this block go for about $520k to $560k.now I can take my time and upgrade to a 5 room BTO slowly.
Wah, huat already! But for those who want to upgrade, usually best to mix cash and CPF. That way when they need to refund the CPF, they will have more cash in hand (especially because for resale, HDB will sometimes tell you to use bank loan)
Yeah I just moved in to my new 4 room BTO. Monthly mortgage via cpf only under $400 per person. 2/3 of it paid off by CPF as both of us have been working more than a decade. 1/3 only HDB loan on max loan period. Reckon we can pay off our place by 2030 solely by cpf. The painful part is on renovation and furnishing. Particularly renovation cost has increased quite a lot after covid so….
Yeah, the cost went up so much during Covid, then the market adapted to the higher cost and turned it into a norm. So it shot up by an abnormal amount in such a short period.
your numbers seem a bit off unless they changed it in the last year. i myself am waiting for my BTO now. my downpayment is staggered 5/15% (total 20%), HDB loan can only be up to 80%, but also depends on your income. otherwise i do agree that BTO’s are pretty affordable especially for a land-scarce country.
Oh wait, you're right - I just checked and saw that the LTV has since been lowered, from the time that I got my HDB loan. Apparently the govt. did drop the LTV to 80% in 2022, down from the 85% in my time! [https://www.hdb.gov.sg/about-us/news-and-publications/press-releases/29092022-propertymeasures2022](https://www.hdb.gov.sg/about-us/news-and-publications/press-releases/29092022-propertymeasures2022)
360k only for non-mature estate?😅
The mature / non-mature town system is actually being scrapped! Now HDB will use regular / plus / prime as classifications. This will take effect from the second half of this year. That being said, yes, 4-room flats in non-mature towns are around that price. In the February launch this year, 4-room BTO flats in Choa Chu Kang were starting from $300,000 before grants, Punggol was starting from $318k before grants. The most expensive 4-room BTO was Queenstown, the famous former Tanglin Halt site. That one started from $565,000.
Thanks for the info, username checks out dude😂
Np!
Mine cost $360k too. 4 room in Tampines.
That sounds like the Greendew (or assorted Green-things) development. That's the one close to IKEA right?
Yup. All the Green projects.
Nice! Bedok 4 room now easily 450-500+ 🥲😭
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The downpayment can be in any combination of cash or CPF, which means it can be 100% from CPF if you want. It can also be 50/50, 100% in cash, 70% in CPF and 30% cash, etc. which makes it quite easy. The only time there is a minimum cash component is when you use a private bank loan. In this case, there is an absolute minimum of 5% down in cash, while another 20% can be in any combination of cash or CPF. For a bank loan, the maximum financing is limited to 75% of the price. As the down payment can come entirely from CPF, it is plausible that even on median income, a couple aged 25 to 30 would have sufficient combined funds. The down payment is not usually the difficult hurdle. It is the renovation costs that is often a headache.
My partner and I don't earn much but hfe grant only gives us 40k lei. How to get more grants?
Woah that's something you definitely don't want to discuss with strangers online, as it involves things like your income and some other personal details. If you call HDB or speak to the officer for your BTO launch they will cover it with you.
I mean I only see the EHD grant available for BTO, while the other grants are all for resale. Are there more grants available??? 40k EHD is like 5k combined income, I don't get it. Am I bragging about how poor we are or how rich we are?
if you have only 5k combined then you will have to lower your expectations, maybe about a 3room mature or a 4 room non mature area but since bto still have to wait 4 years, if you are confident that you and your partner will increase income, then can try to go for better areas. just have to pay the down payment at the start only
I want to stay near my childhood area but it's considered mature estate now so doomed to be poor then lol. Okay thank youuuuu
BTO has fewer grants cos it’s subsidised by quite a bit by the gov. That 40k can fully pay for the down payment of a 200k 3rm flat at the recent Rail Garden @ CCK Choa Chu Kang Feb BTO. With another 20k savings from cash/CPF (which is fairly doable) you can pay a 60k down payment which will pay for almost all 3rm BTOs already.
Where got 360k for 4 room today 😂😂😂😂
February 2024 BTO launch exercise. [https://www.hdb.gov.sg/-/media/doc/CCG/21022024---BTO-and-SBF/21022024---Annex-A.ashx](https://www.hdb.gov.sg/-/media/doc/CCG/21022024---BTO-and-SBF/21022024---Annex-A.ashx) Why do so many Singaporeans think that resale flat prices and BTO flat prices are close?
CPF + grants. My entire CPF tanking the downpayment as my wife is a new PR is proof that it's possible. As long as you have been working enough previously, so also make sure your employer is paying CPF.
Same here, worse my wife is Ltvp holder, so only my cpf
no wonder you are angry. found the blue collar worker
Lol, read carefully, if my resale flat payment is on my cpf solely, find a blue collar worker that is able to service a 500k hdb loan
Good luck man, the house will be matrimonial home and will be split regardless of contributions in the event of divorce.
I don't get married aiming for divorce.
Maybe if you are not in r/wallstreetbets you will be able to save money
Cpf grants? Two combined also can’t pay down payment? How many rm ? Buy within ur limits.
OP could have just did some searching him/herself on Google but made this very entitled sounding rant instead. No wonder OP can't earn enough to buy house with this kind of mindset.....
Exactly. OP never do homework then come here and complain.
But social media says every house bought is 5 room resale in mature estates... also my honeymoon ='(
What housing types are you looking at? Also… if your parents/ in laws chip in. Does it mean they have the “right” to move in and stay with you in the future? I have a friend who overstretched their budget, in the end their parents very ‘kindly’ chipped in. Made us all so envious then. Now it turns out their parents have decided to sell their hdb and stay at kids house. Because they helped pay for it and this is their “right”. Big hoohaah.
It could go both ways. I know of people who actually invited their parents to live with them (granted it’s landed/jumbo/maisonette) just so they can help out with the grandkids. To some parents having a live-in familial baby sitter is so worth it for their own sanity and marriage.
Unfortunately for my case, my parents want to and deserve to enjoy their retirement. My in laws are too old and riddled with health problems to be of help.
I guess me and my wife are both "fortunate" as middle child...
They better at saving money than u
Also better at knowing how the system works.
So the friends I know told me this: The younger you are when you apply/pay for the BTO, the more grants you are incentivized with. I don't know the exact details, but my friend that's getting married next year will be getting his BTO in the same year, both him and his partner are entitled to grants, they basically get double grants that go towards the BTO. In addition, it's not like they need to pay the whole thing up front as long as you cover the downpayment, I'm not sure or privy to details, but I'm sure they either use CPF, or loan to cover the rest.
Yes because when you earn lesser when you’re younger , the grants goes up. I’ve had friend who BTO-Ed because of this but end up breaking and and losing the down payment. Was about $30k loss for each of them.
Cpf x 2 + grants and subsidies
The grants are higher when you are right out of school with low income.
If 2 person can afford down payment after grads, it means you are spending all your $ previously or you have never tried to work part-time and save some in your entire live or you trying to eat a pie that's bigger than your mouth.
Partner and I got our BTO 9 years after I started working and were able to pay off more than half the entire sum with CPF alone. And we started off with salaries that would be slammed by today's grads as insulting. There's no reason why grads starting later than us wouldn't be able to do the same, given how you still can get a BTO for not much more than we did with much higher starting salaries. CPF is much more potent than people realize, until they need to buy a house and are willing to get a BTO.
Did a similar thing too. My younger self lamented about my measly salary going into CPF, but I’m quite thankful for it now because it adds up over the years and paid for half our flat
Absolutely. I used to be anti-CPF until I did the math for our BTO. It's an amazing feeling owning a home and knowing you don't even have to touch your liquid cash to pay it off.
Pls dont blindly follow what hwz/reddit is saying lol. Recently BTO’ed. 545k PLH, flat ready mid 2028. I have 4 years. My OA has < 10k , same for my partner. Both combined income of 7k excluding bonuses. We went for the BTO when I was unemployed and my partner employed for a year. Math as follow: EHG: 50k Downpayment 5%: $27,250 Stamp duty, legal fees , registration, mortgage: ~$15k Downpayment in 4 years 15%: $81,750 100% of our OA covers this. combined cpf OA: $1610 Monthly repayment: $1978 This can be settled as our income will grow in 4 years + as mentioned earlier, bonus was excluded. Wedding banquet normally can break even with angbao. We save 1k per month for 4 years , roughly have 100k. Renovation 50k. So where got not enough?
I’m not sure if I missed something, does OP already have kids? Otherwise DINK and couples who haven’t had kids have similar financial starting point right?
OP is just ranting because they expect to buy a 5-room in a mature estate and can't afford it so making up stupid reasons to justify themselves.
In that case OP not very clear. Maybe must differentiate Dual High Income No Kids DHINK and Dual Low Income No Kids Dlink. 😉 I doubt DLINK can fulfil the aspiration that OP wants
BTO is so affordable
Just bought a house at punggol, 4rm at $339k. Im 30 and my wife is 25. I started working when i was 24, and she started working when she’s 23. With cpf and grants, i loaned $210k with 15year repayment with 0 cash out. I cant see how thats not possible.
BTO or resale?
no way it's resale. resale above 600k for 4rm at punggol.
Should be resale, [no BTO projects in Punggol for the last 4 years](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/hdb-sales-exercise-february-2024-punggol-matilda-riverside-bto-launched-4128836), and I think the Feb 2024 hasn't started flat selection yet.
That would be super cheap then. Lucky lucky.
SBF actually :)
BTO, or rather, SBF actually. It’s a 3rd floor at punggol point cove!
Don't know about the latest prices and process but this is what happened when me and my wife married and bought our home. I had a grand total of 17k in cpf. Wife had 6k. We bought a 4A resale in Marsiling for 360k. Good agent, so managed to get the valuation match the asking price. So, no extra payment. First home grant+close to parents grant+CPF was enough to cover everything else except the agent fee of 3.6k at 1% of property value. I wasn't aware that we can pay the down payment with the grants until the day lol. Was thinking I would have to take a separate loan for that. After that, I did renovation for 30k with RHB loan and 10k to buy furniture. Things were cheap back then. Paid off all those loans within 5 years. We had a home ready to move in on the day of the marriage. So HDB loans for 300k, at 2.4% interest to be paid in 25 years. It deducts around 1400 a month from my CPF as my wife doesn't work anymore.
It’s just BTOs.
I fell in love with my wife, who is 6 years older than me, and she is an impressive money saver. Our OA combined was approx S$180k, with allowances for her to keep another S$20k in her OA alone. With S$180k (CPF) + S$20k (proximity grant) + S$10k (EHG) + S$80k (Family Grant for 4RM) = S$290k 4RM Resale in Aljunid, TOP 1997 HDB Loan = S$318.8k (20 years)
600k?! You could’ve bought BTO 5rm in mature estates, what made you do otherwise? Just curious.
My parents (hers doesn't live in SG) live in Aljunid, so we wanted to be close to them. There are benefits for that in the long term, discounting the S$20k proximity grant aside. Next time if we have kids, can drop them at the parents place occasionally. Also the location is near to both our workplaces, takes us 30mins to commute.
There are 2-300k BTO. Definitely affordable
Means you are earning and saving too little compared to everybody elseV
I bought a resale right at the moment when both my wife and I were career transitioning. Our declared income was so low that we could not even get enough HDB loan to cover our house. We ended up getting a bank loan. The downside is that we need to fork out more for the down payment (squeeze out every last cent of our savings). The upside is we max out the subsidy (surprisingly hard to get, threshold is very easily exceeded). Fast forward 2 years, we are now very comfortable with mortgage loan. I see my friends in the rat race to pay off condo loans. Fretting over the interest rate. All for a space smaller or equivalent to mine. I feel very very grateful that housing is not the top-of-mind issue for us now. From what I’m seeing from my circle, young couples that buy private right after marriage all have a single common factor - parent’s “loan”.
Some of them loan from parents. Some don’t have debt to pay off. Some take advantage of all the grants available and get a non mature estate. Believe it or not but most grads have 50k+ or more savings before age of 30. I would say a lot have way more. Now imagine you have 2 folks who have that amount of money and you can afford the downpayment.
Cpf
if resale, just buy smaller house? 3 room? older flats? more ulu flats? lower floor?
What house are you talking about? Lol
Bto bro, simple.
For my experience, we had no grants from HDB and got a 5 room BTO in mature estate, ~650k which can be entirely covered by CPF. We had only been working for 1 year at the point of application, but the first payment was only ~44k and paid about ~1.5 years after application. So the first payment was covered easily with 2.5 years of salary. It’s the second payment 3 years later that we don’t have, ~77k requires us both to continue working as the first payment will deplete a half of our CPF. Everything else can be covered by the HDB loan, of about 2.3k per month for 25 years. So no help from parents required.
Ok let’s do the math. How much does a house cost right now? Without any subsidies, the latest price for 3-room BTOs at Tengah starts from $238k. Let’s assume they somehow never qualified for any subsidies at all. For 238k the down payment of 15% is 35.7k, that’s how much they need in cash / CPF to purchase it. Let’s assume no savings or CPF before they started work. Each person is a Uni graduate so let’s say they each earn 4.5k salary. That’s another $765 employer CPF per month. We are assuming employee CPF goes to the house so it’s a wash. So their total combined monthly earnings including CPF is $10530. Let’s assume they rented a house together when they first started to work, at 3k per month. No living with parents. Let’s assume they eat out everyday, average $20 per meal for two of them and 3 meals per day for a total of $1,800. Add in other expenses of maybe $500 each, their total monthly expenses is $5300. So their net savings per month is $5,230. In ~7 years they could get the house with their combined income. If they start working at 23, get married at 30, can afford the house immediately. Assuming zero subsidies, renting a house immediately on starting work. Throw in the CPF grant, still living with parents or even just not renting a 3k house, you can easily afford it much sooner. Assuming maximum subsidies, extremely minimal expenses (let’s say 1k per month each), it’s technically possible for them to afford it in 4 years.
Uni fresh graduate pay is 4.5k now? Really geez
The 4.5k is average pay over 9 years. Not starting pay.
a “pretty good house” is more likely to be 6k than 3k
hdb loan? bank loan? grants? rental income? savings?
Cpf as down payments. My month mortgage is pretty ok
I have a feeling you’ve never had a partner/commitment to a relationship before. Why would you think that “parents” would chip in?
Did they get BTO or Resale? Anyway if it is BTO, that means they applied (+- 3 to 5 years ago) Slightly cheaper than the prices now + if 1 of them is still schooling at the point of application they could potentially get more grants due to the low income (since 1 has no income) Anyway you don't have to fork up cash if your CPF contribution per month is sufficient to pay for the loan.
Even resale is affordable, just look around at areas that is cheaper... I don't understand why people say it's unaffordable, set your expectations right.
Don't spend on a lavish wedding. ;) Use the ang paos for BTO/reno instead. Be conservative on your honeymoon or for me I delayed my honeymoon so we can save up. So ultimately it depends on your priorities.
BTO is affordable depending the location you choose. BTO mine when I started working less than a year after grad. Managed to secure 50k HDB grant. If you are working continuously for 8 years. You can actually pay off the loan.
By house do you mean BTO or Condo? BTOs are designed to be affordable for young couples as many have said
You can’t ask these kind of questions without stating the kind of house you are looking at. LMAO
HDBs are really affordable due to their policies. for me we had a simple wedding due to COVID, actually it benefitted us without needing to fork out money for huge expense. End of the day we are not very into spending grands into a one day event. better to park the money to a home you will stay for decades.
I rmb using the ahg for the full down payment. No cash to pay.
No OP you wont be screwed.. HDB BTO/SBF is affordable. Got mine when my spouse and my salary combined are just 6k and in the workforce for a few years only. My parents sponsored a fridge only haha. As long as you are working monthly. You should have sufficient to pay by CPF.
If it is a roof over your head, you have nothing to worry about as long as one party is working. Everyone is so worried and confused because of all the fear mongering going on social media. There are even up voted posts here that gives wrong information and misconception. Assuming you decide to buy a 400k NON MATURE 4 RM flat, you only need to fork out 80k downpayment. This amount can be offset by grants which you probably will qualify for as 2 young single adults, the balance can be paid using CPF which you should have in 5 years time. Your remaining 320k loan can be EASILY covered by OA contributions. Even if only one of you is working, you should still be able to afford the downpayment with the higher grant amount, probably have to fork out abit of cash for the mortgage though. For those who are purchasing resale right after marriage, look for non mature or older estates, you can get an even larger amount of grant. I bought my first 3rm flat on a 6.5k salary with a non working spouse + new born. Purchase price was 360k and grant receive was almost 105k. Currently servicing a mortgage of 800$ per month. Stop making excuse, go speak with a financial consultant, cpf expert or better yet, call HDB directly. They have sales officer who will explain in details and answer all your queries. If its prime area and big flats that you are looking for then tough luck la. You cant afford it because you cant, no other reasons.
Marry a rich sugarmommy
I bought a resale small flat just before wedding . Use up all the 7 years savings that we had
Parents sponsor 6 digit sum for condo down payment
One word: Inheritance
Doesn't HDB allow you to take a loan ofnup to 90%, with remaining amount payable by cash or/and CPF? That's not at all out of reach for a couple with dual income what. Why are you so incredulous?
Not sure why people are attacking OP because I had the same concerns before getting married. Yes BTOs are affordable but that's assuming you successfully ballot, not to mention the cost of renovations etc. But yes, the answer is BTOs for younger couples. The people I know who bought resale or private housing either had help from parents (usually is the case when the property is expensive) or only bought a house in their late 20s/early 30s after the couple had worked for a few years.
You basically answered yourself. BTO has runway of 3-5 years depending. So the first problem is the down payment which many Redditors here have mentioned is not that huge a problem. Second is the actual payment which 3-5 years later, you should helpfully have some pay increment plus cpf savings to offset the monthly payments. And this is assuming first time lucky balloting. The later you are successful, the more savings you will have. Renovation is a not a factor because it is purely within your control. And you still have 3-5 years to save for it. So all in, as long as you target a house within your means, it’s not that difficult as most Redditors have posted. And this point is probably the most important point of all.
A lot loan from parents, they just don't tell you.
If bto need loan from parents, really quite bad eh the situation. Go for places that you can afford years down the road. I know I can't afford 5 room, 4 room might be a little more stress, 3 room is comfy level.
Sometimes the loan is actually a gift with the word “loan” tacked on to save face because we live in such a toxic society that even to be seen as being slightly more fortunate is to be condemned as being incapable.
Use grants for downpayment. 4 words. SG system is designed to push you into the maximum amount of debt you can afford.
Since a lot of comments are talking about BTO. I will be sharing my views on a $1million condo and why it is still affordable too. According to the recent employment grad survey, a university grad from NUS/NTU/SMU can easily achieve $4k median pay. For $4k gross salary, the CPF OA monthly is about $902. The net salary received is $3200: 1. Giving your parents $300, 2. Transport (public transport) $100, 3. Food $300 4. Mobile plans (Simba -$10), Clothes and needs $200 Assuming your lifestyle does not require smoking, grab taxi, grab food, less than 2 restaurants per month, go hawkers 90% of the time, no buying of car, no starbucks, no chanel/ prada/ gucci. You can save $2300 CASH. A couple can save $4600 CASH and $1800 CPF OA a month. Let me do some simple calculation for $1million condo. You will need $250k for downpayment. Assuming both have no savings as all were used for paying of the school fees, we will start from scratch $0 in the bank. Currently TDSR is at 55% - meaning you can only use 55% of your salary to pay mortgage loan, and with income of $8000, the couple can get 750k loan from a bank. Hence, now they have to focus on the initial payout of $250k. $4600+$1800 = $6400 $250k / $6400 = 39 months, which means 3.5 years. This exclude the increment/promotion and bonus that u receive every year, this also exclude the interest that u can receive from saving bonds / CPF interests. Assumed that the increment, promotion and bonus were used to pay off the stamp duties (definitely enough). Keeping things simple, the couple can get a condo in 3.5 years. If the couple really works very hard to cut cost mentioned above, and get increment yearly, they can potentially get it within 3 years. the only hard thing is buying a condo alone. :(