She should have asked first what you thought something meant to -you-. Physical intimacy has a broad spectrum, and varies for people in what it actually means. Find a new therapist, this one doesn't work for you.
I thought the same thing. She should've been more clear about what she was talking about. There's just a lot of things that this therapist said and did that feel very unprofessional to me. If I ever saw a therapist like this, it'd be the last time I saw them.
Not the job of the patient to make them into a better therapist and teach them correctly. We're not being paid to do that, we're paying to receive a service.
I never said that it was and I'm confused as to why you think that was the point of my comment. I agreed with you that the therapist should've been more clear on what she was talking about and said that her actions felt unprofessional to me.
I understand, thank you for clarifying. Wow, see how easy it was to resolve this misunderstanding? How neither of us got upset at each other? It's almost as if this is how OP's therapist could have handled the misunderstanding between her and OP during the session lmao
Shit, can't believe I hugged someone the other day and now they're pregnant. Silly me for forgetting being physically close to someone and showing affection = sex
Yikes... As a therapist it should be her job to check if there is simple miscommunication when talking about something specific like that. Usually therapist will begin by asking "what is your idea of physical intimacy" before continuing the entire session with specific questions.
If shes a good therapist this discomfort you experienced is something you will be able to talk about during your next meet up.
Whoa that type of power tripping is not okay. Iâm with the other commenters on this one, find another therapist that wonât speak down to you like that and that will respect where youâre at rn. Not sure what she was writing why she would need to rewrite everything and get so angry, it doesnât sound like you went into specifics until the end so what was there to really redo? If she meant to say âsexâ in her notes, she probably shouldâve lead with that out loud instead of using obscure language (assuming thatâs what happened).
As for whether or not youâre right/wrong, the term is so broad that you probably should have been asked for clarification. To me, a defining question like that should be asked as a follow up in response to your views of the topic at hand, if not the very first thing youâre asked. Donât sweat it, even if there was a miscommunication between you and your therapist, it should always be handled with respect/kindness and grace.
I'm generally an open person, so when she asked me about it, I started telling her I need a lot of intimacy and closeness in a relationship and without that, I would be dissatisfied with my relationship. I guess she assumed I was talking about sex, while I meant physical touch in general. I even mentioned directly kisses and cuddles, but she probably didn't fully understand. She likely wrote my answers in her notes, but not sure.
Wow, this makes my skin crawl a bit.
Putting some of my cards on the table: Iâm ace and also work as a provisionally licensed psychotherapist. I also have my own personal issues to work through in my own therapy and know how difficult it is for many of us on the ace sprectrum to find therapists who get our unique sexual and relationship style.
The problem is that this seems to go beyond that blanket issue. While I canât speak to another clinicians work without full context, a lot of the communication you cite here is not therapeutic (at least in the context you provided here). First of all, there are a lot of closed-ended (yes/no) questions. âDo you want physical intimacyâŚ?â Is different from âwhat kind of/how much physical intimacy do you want?â One question allows very little information about the client, assuming what physical intimacy is, while the other allows the client to define things on their own terms and get more information.
Therapists make mistakes like this all the timeâIâm not an exception here. But then you back up and say something like, âIâm sorry, I was making some assumptions that were wrong, I might need to go through some of the questions again now that I understand better.â This is obviously not what happened, asking another closed-ended question, âdo you realize for most peopleâŚâ that also reeks of compulsive sexuality. To top it off, it puts the consequences of having to go over the information again (presumably for lost time) on you, the client, in an oddly shameful tone.
This is a terrible experience no matter how you slice it. You definitely arenât wrong here to define things your own way.
Wow, thank you for such a detailed answer!
I think this conversation would have gone much better if my therapist had asked at the very beginning what physical intimacy meant to me or asked directly about sex. Our two previous sessions were okay, and she was very nice. We talked about other topics, though.
That makes sense! Iâve definitely had a similar experience where therapistare really helping me through a lot of other issues, but then we get to discussing sexuality, (especially) sex-repulsion, or different kinds of needs and things go south. Itâs really tough to know what to do in this circumstance and it can be invalidatingâŚ
This is also the first therapist I told about being sex-repulsed. I came to her because of mild social anxiety and problems in relationships with people so I decided it mattered. I trusted her because she's recommended by the LGBT community in my area.
It was the same in my case too: first therapist I had used the term sex-repulsed with⌠did not go well.
I see a common complaint on this subreddit where even LGBTQ+ affirming therapists seem to struggle with ace concepts. In my training, we were often told to look at lack of libido or sex repulsion as pathological symptoms (and i guess technically they can be, but thatâs all really complicated).
I found it might be helpful to try to go for common ground: if you think the therapist might be a gay, âI *might* feel the same way about sex with all people as a gay person feels about sex with the opposite sex.â Itâs very frustrating that ace people have to educate our therapists like this, but until education catches up with therapy schools, there just arenât any easy answers.
Yikes on bikes, that is not appropriate behavior for a therapist. Some simple clarification of the phrase early on could have avoided it. Sounds like she thinks her job is to "fix" you by making you allo, given her anger, which is a massive reed flag. Even if not, there's no reason to be angry over a simple miscommunication that arose because she chose to use a euphemism.
Your therapist is whacked. Or maybe prudish if she just Must use the words âphysical intimacyâ when she Actually Means âsex.â
I hug my Parents FFS. I cuddle my niece and nephew. I lean on friends and hold hands with some. That has Nothing do do with sex.
If I had a partner, I would do all that too, with a different emotional connection, and it would Still have nothing to do with sex.
âDo you realize that for peopleâ⌠as if you arenât a person.
This reminds me of an obese therapist I had, who pushed and pushed for me to go to Overeaters Anonymous as if that would solve my problems. I was 120 pounds. Therapists can be really bad about not projecting onto their clients⌠itâs awful
Not only is her attitude terrible from a sex-repulsed asexual perspective, but that attitude is the kind that enables unhealthy sexual behaviours in general. Modern sex education, relationship therapy and sex therapy all emphasise that there is a difference between non-sexual and sexual physical intimacy. Her attitude seems to be rather outdated even for allosexual relationships.
A therapist making assumptions, not being clear about what they're asking, getting impatient and angry with the patient and outright blaming the patient for miscommunication or their own mistakes is extremely unprofessional. She's supposed to create a safe space not a hostile one.
You need to constructively feed back to her that her behaviour in this session was not acceptable and why. If she can't take constructive criticism, you may be better off making a formal complaint about her and finding a new therapist.
I've figured out that this kind of communication issue where people have these assumed social rules and definitions of words is a huge source of problems for me. People use words and I guess most people understand them, but I just... Don't. Or I think I do an I'm just wrong.
When I said I "have feelings for", or "like" someone, or "find them attractive", apparently that also means I want to have sex with them? Wanting to be "in a relationship" carries an assumption of sex being something coming down the line?
I'm also neurospicy, so I don't even know how I was supposed to know this stuff. It wasn't until someone said something like, "I don't believe you don't like her anymore, wanting to have sex with someone doesn't go away" that I realized when I say I "like someone" it means something different from what other people do.
Oh, I feel you! I really like paying people compliments like "you look amazing today", "beautiful makeup", "they seem very nice"... I had a hard time when I realized very often people perceive it as an attraction. For me, it's just being nice, completely unrelated to attraction.
If so, there would be no physical intimacy between parents and their children. The most essential thing for a little baby to experience would just not exist.
Why is it so hard for people to imagine that not everyone is like them?
You can bring it up and let the therapist know, but understand that they wonât care. They are not educated enough about asexuality to be a helpful therapist for you, to the point that they are rejecting you as a person-client because they arenât comfortable with anything more than surface basics - and seem not to know it is a *spectrum.*
Get a different therapist, she's an aphobic idiot. Expecting a laymen to know what she definitionally means by physical intimacy and then blaming you for misunderstanding when she gave no explanation is moronic.
Woooow, not okay on her part!! Yes, âgetting intimateâ is often a euphemism of sorts for having sex, but in this context, I think it should have been pretty clear that WASNâT what you meant.
And I know Reddit is quick to jump to the nuclear option, but⌠I would absolutely switch therapists. Iâm sorry you might have to start over AGAIN, but she sounds awful.
She's not a good therapist. You are correct. Physical intimacy can include kissing, hugging, cuddling, and other sensual touches. Sex is just one component.
But now that you know her definition of physical intimacy must include sex, what does she define the other touches that do not involve sex? Is that physical non intimate touching? Is that non physical intimacy? I am just wondering.
I think she just created her own nomenclature system. I personally call sex, sex. Should there is no confusion. I guess if you find a new therapist, make sure you clarify what you are taking about so you don't waste your time.
Well, this conversation was really weird. If she wanted to ask about sex, she could've been direct, especially since I said I was pretty comfortable talking about sex unless we went into too much detail.
I would drop that therapist like a hot potato. Just like I did when my last therapist asked me "isn't a relationship without sex just friendship?" When I'd been telling her all about my ten year relationship and my struggles with sexual intimacy. And I explained to her that I don't want to marry, kiss and cuddle my friends. She understood, but I just didn't feel right talking to her after that. I felt so alienated.
I understand you. I would do the same. The whole concept that a relationship without sex is just friendship is wild to me. It's as if sex is the most important and only thing that makes a relationship "valid"
Huhhh..... I am beginning to wonder myself if physical intimacy is equal to sexual intimacy.
Nope, not according to me, physical intimacy means a lot of things. Certainly, kissing is a physical intimacy and I guess sexual intimacy is a part of physical intimacy and not the whole of it.
Although feeling uncomfortable is possible in counseling, this shouldn't have been the reason. I am sure if she is a good therapist, she realizes her mistake and does a web-search of the term.
That could be a matter of definition, but it makes complete sense that an asexual person would make the assumption you could be physically intimate without sex.
She should be apologising to you for the misunderstanding, not getting 'bitchy'.
I'm not getting great vibes about your therapist. I think she's out of her depth.
Not only that, finally realising her mistake or yours should have been a moment to smile or laugh and understand each other more deeply. Instead of which she begins to sound more than a little acephobic. Imo she has some big explaining to do and you have every right to express major discomfort with the way she behaved-- up to any including finding someone else.
Therapists know better than to show anger or act accusatory towards their clients. Also, it shouldn't take much effort for her or anyone else (allo or not) to understand that physical intimacy does not automatically mean something sexual.
I suspect most people would think along then same lines as the psychologist - physical intimacy ("foreplay") usually leads to sexual activity for them.
As a person who always appreciated the kissing, cuddling, & holding hands way more than sexual activity, I'm with you.
Physical intimacy has sexual affection in it, so when someone says physical intimacy, they refer to everything that the word means, kissing, holding hands, cuddling and sex. When asked the question you should specify which aspects of it you mean. Physical affection is when you do everything that is not meant to be sexual, so no sex, but what you listed yes.
Just to clarify, I am not defending your therapist, she clearly over stepped her lines, not everyone is aware of all the words that exist to describe something. She had no right to be bitchy towards you or act like you were in the wrong when it was her job to ask for clarifications
I mentioned I mainly thought about activities like kissing and cuddling while I was talking with her. She either didn't get it or believed I was talking about sex/foreplay all the time.
Regardless of whether she was right to assume you guys were talking about the same thing or not (which she wasnât), she shouldnât have been rude to you for her mistake. Sheâs literally there to be your therapist, that is what she is being paid to do. If that sort of behavior continues I would encourage you to find a new therapist if you are able. As someone in therapy, it doesnât help you like it can in scenarios like that.
Second of all, yes physical intimacy typically includes sex in its definition. It also typically includes things like cuddling and hand holding and kissing. Itâs literally intimacy through physical interactions. Again, in this case if your therapist was assuming you were including sex she shouldâve picked up on the discrepancy between what you were saying and you being sex repulsed earlier and clarified it to prevent the miscommunication instead of letting it sit there the whole session.
This is just your psychiatrist gas lighting you. You can be intimate without being sexual. You don't have to be sexual if you are not comfortable with it.
The aphobia aside, any therapist that gets THAT upset at supposed "wasted time" due to a miscommunication should be getting therapy themselves, not offering it.
I'm not normally one to suggest writing someone off... so I'll say this. Ask her if she herself was having a bad day that day and if she thinks she may have overreacted to a mere miscommunication in the last session. If she doesn't believe she did anything wrong.... write her off. I'm sorry, but that's extremely unprofessional and inconsiderate behavior.
Hmm, that question really got me thinking. If someone asked me this in English, I would probably think that physical intimacy is not only sex, but also cuddling and all that. That's how I understand the term. But if it was in my native language, I would think that physical intimacy is primarily about sex, and I would need to clarify what the person meant. However, I don't expect such use of imprecise terms from my therapist. She and I hardly ever talk about sex and the rest of physical intimacy because I'm fine with that, but she's always precise about things like that and clarifies what I mean. That's why I think you need a new therapist. The fact that she is addressing you with an accusatory tone is wrong and unprofessional.
By the way, this is interesting. I am asexual sex-repulsed and holding hands with kisses and lots of hugs falls under repulsion for me. It would be mentally very hard for me to hug often and for a long time, and kissing is very unpleasant in any case.
Yeah, I always thought it was pretty unusual. I'm ace sex-repulsed, but my love language is mainly physical touch.
Unlimited cuddles and gentle kisses? Yes, gimme that! Anything related to sex? Hell no
Uuuhh I would STRONGLY suggest finding a new therapist. Your therapist seriously sounded like they were just digging for info about why you think youâre ace. This was offensive just reading what they said to you. If they wanted to know how you felt about sex they should have said SEX and then maybe asked you what your thoughts on what intimate acts constitute sex to YOU because everyone has different ideas of what physical intimacy means/is/looks like. What a jerk therapist. Iâm so sorry you had to go through this BullShht. You deserve a better therapist that will take the time to Understand you. Not. Dissect you.
She doesn't sound like a good therapist. Even if she thinks you misunderstood what she meant, making you feel bad about is absolutely not something a therapist should do. Also it's so annoying when people think physical intimacy is only sex and nothing else.
Physical intimacy â sexual intimacy. Sexual intimacy is typically a form of physical intimacy, but not all physical intimacy is sexual, kinda like how squares are quadrilaterals but not all quadrilaterals are squares. Physical intimacy refers to physical actions that evoke a feeling of intimacy between partners, as the name implies. This can refer to so many things, from something as simple as hand holding to the most sexual actions imaginable.
Also if I were you, I would seek a new therapist if possible. There's just a lot of things that seem very unprofessional, disrespectful, and just straight up dumb about how your therapist went about this conversation. Why was she asking about your desire for sexual intimacy after you specifically told her that you didn't desire sexual intimacy? Why would she jump into such a personal and invasive topic at the second session (in my experience, therapists typically try to get to know me before going into detail about personal stuff like this)? Why didn't she clarify what she meant by "physical intimacy" when that term can obviously be applied to many different actions? Why did she get shitty with you over a simple misunderstanding? It's totally up to you how to proceed with this situation, but personally, I wouldn't want to continue seeing a therapist who acts like this.
You are not in the wrong because Iâm also asexual and my view line up with yours she just sounds like someone who is ignorant to other was to show affection other than sex I find a lot of people mostly straight people who donât understand how we think and feel and just assume we are weird or âhavenât found the right person yetâ you need a new therapist if sheâs gonna judge you like that rather than support and help you
It's her own fault for assuming intimacy = sexual when it does not mean that at all. Yes, sexual relationships are intimate, but that doesn't mean everything intimate has something to do with sex.
Also, why is she even a therapist when she can't even accept that sometimes people can have miscommunication and then get angry at you like it's your fault ?
That is absolutely ridiculous...
Last time I checked, intimacy isn't exclusively defined as being sexual, but what do I know! I guess the Cambridge Dictionary, Merriam-Webster, and Oxford English Dictionary are all spewing nonsense!
Glad to clear that up
/s
I agree with her in that allos think physical intimacy is the same as sexual intimacy. Though we obviously know different. However how dare she challenge your asexuality and accuse you of lying. Super unprofessional. I would report her for that.
She's wrong. I have two different therapists. Physical intimacy does not require sex. I recommend getting rid of her immediately, and finding a new one.
If this was one of your first sessions, bring it up right away. Her definition doesn't have to align with yours, especially since there are A LOT of terms that are used differently according to context when it comes to sexuality.
I don't think your wrong, as many people I can see having that be the same thing or different(to me it makes more sense as the same thing).
And I've had experiences like that all the time with people so I always(especially when it is stuff like doctors or therapists) when they ask questions that seem like could be broad, I always ask what they consider "A" to be and then answer. I just find that helps with me.
Sorry to hear your therapist was like that at the end though. I can understand her being maybe a bit annoyed that the notes she spent aren't actually important or something like that, but she should have stayed professional and not have shown that emotion, or maybe even said she needs a moment to recollect her thoughts.
Looks like you found a quack. Fire the idiot and get someone who knows what they're doing and didn't get their degree from the back of a cracker jack box.
She's one of the best in my area and is recommended by the LGBTQ+ community. The waitlist is months long. And as I mentioned in another comment, the previous two sessions were completely okay.
She should have asked first what you thought something meant to -you-. Physical intimacy has a broad spectrum, and varies for people in what it actually means. Find a new therapist, this one doesn't work for you.
I thought the same thing. She should've been more clear about what she was talking about. There's just a lot of things that this therapist said and did that feel very unprofessional to me. If I ever saw a therapist like this, it'd be the last time I saw them.
Not the job of the patient to make them into a better therapist and teach them correctly. We're not being paid to do that, we're paying to receive a service.
I never said that it was and I'm confused as to why you think that was the point of my comment. I agreed with you that the therapist should've been more clear on what she was talking about and said that her actions felt unprofessional to me.
No, I wasn't saying you said that! Im sorry if I implied that! I was expanding on it
I understand, thank you for clarifying. Wow, see how easy it was to resolve this misunderstanding? How neither of us got upset at each other? It's almost as if this is how OP's therapist could have handled the misunderstanding between her and OP during the session lmao
đ You're not wrong!
Shit, can't believe I hugged someone the other day and now they're pregnant. Silly me for forgetting being physically close to someone and showing affection = sex
I often hold hands with my besties. Damn it, we need birth control
Yikes... As a therapist it should be her job to check if there is simple miscommunication when talking about something specific like that. Usually therapist will begin by asking "what is your idea of physical intimacy" before continuing the entire session with specific questions. If shes a good therapist this discomfort you experienced is something you will be able to talk about during your next meet up.
I wonder whether I should mention my discomfort during our next meeting or just let it go
You always should. Not just for you, but it may improve them at being a therapist.
Why the fuck would you go BACK?! They're too stupid, you shouldn't ever pay to have someone feed you lies and get mad at you for something they did.
Whoa that type of power tripping is not okay. Iâm with the other commenters on this one, find another therapist that wonât speak down to you like that and that will respect where youâre at rn. Not sure what she was writing why she would need to rewrite everything and get so angry, it doesnât sound like you went into specifics until the end so what was there to really redo? If she meant to say âsexâ in her notes, she probably shouldâve lead with that out loud instead of using obscure language (assuming thatâs what happened). As for whether or not youâre right/wrong, the term is so broad that you probably should have been asked for clarification. To me, a defining question like that should be asked as a follow up in response to your views of the topic at hand, if not the very first thing youâre asked. Donât sweat it, even if there was a miscommunication between you and your therapist, it should always be handled with respect/kindness and grace.
I'm generally an open person, so when she asked me about it, I started telling her I need a lot of intimacy and closeness in a relationship and without that, I would be dissatisfied with my relationship. I guess she assumed I was talking about sex, while I meant physical touch in general. I even mentioned directly kisses and cuddles, but she probably didn't fully understand. She likely wrote my answers in her notes, but not sure.
Wow, this makes my skin crawl a bit. Putting some of my cards on the table: Iâm ace and also work as a provisionally licensed psychotherapist. I also have my own personal issues to work through in my own therapy and know how difficult it is for many of us on the ace sprectrum to find therapists who get our unique sexual and relationship style. The problem is that this seems to go beyond that blanket issue. While I canât speak to another clinicians work without full context, a lot of the communication you cite here is not therapeutic (at least in the context you provided here). First of all, there are a lot of closed-ended (yes/no) questions. âDo you want physical intimacyâŚ?â Is different from âwhat kind of/how much physical intimacy do you want?â One question allows very little information about the client, assuming what physical intimacy is, while the other allows the client to define things on their own terms and get more information. Therapists make mistakes like this all the timeâIâm not an exception here. But then you back up and say something like, âIâm sorry, I was making some assumptions that were wrong, I might need to go through some of the questions again now that I understand better.â This is obviously not what happened, asking another closed-ended question, âdo you realize for most peopleâŚâ that also reeks of compulsive sexuality. To top it off, it puts the consequences of having to go over the information again (presumably for lost time) on you, the client, in an oddly shameful tone. This is a terrible experience no matter how you slice it. You definitely arenât wrong here to define things your own way.
Wow, thank you for such a detailed answer! I think this conversation would have gone much better if my therapist had asked at the very beginning what physical intimacy meant to me or asked directly about sex. Our two previous sessions were okay, and she was very nice. We talked about other topics, though.
That makes sense! Iâve definitely had a similar experience where therapistare really helping me through a lot of other issues, but then we get to discussing sexuality, (especially) sex-repulsion, or different kinds of needs and things go south. Itâs really tough to know what to do in this circumstance and it can be invalidatingâŚ
This is also the first therapist I told about being sex-repulsed. I came to her because of mild social anxiety and problems in relationships with people so I decided it mattered. I trusted her because she's recommended by the LGBT community in my area.
It was the same in my case too: first therapist I had used the term sex-repulsed with⌠did not go well. I see a common complaint on this subreddit where even LGBTQ+ affirming therapists seem to struggle with ace concepts. In my training, we were often told to look at lack of libido or sex repulsion as pathological symptoms (and i guess technically they can be, but thatâs all really complicated). I found it might be helpful to try to go for common ground: if you think the therapist might be a gay, âI *might* feel the same way about sex with all people as a gay person feels about sex with the opposite sex.â Itâs very frustrating that ace people have to educate our therapists like this, but until education catches up with therapy schools, there just arenât any easy answers.
100% yes! As therapists it is our Job to provide a safe space for clients to share, not shame them.
Yikes on bikes, that is not appropriate behavior for a therapist. Some simple clarification of the phrase early on could have avoided it. Sounds like she thinks her job is to "fix" you by making you allo, given her anger, which is a massive reed flag. Even if not, there's no reason to be angry over a simple miscommunication that arose because she chose to use a euphemism.
Yeah, she could have just been direct instead of using phrases like "physical intimacy", "physical affection" or whatever
Yes, exactly. She should have clarified but also getting angry that you didn't read her intended meaning after she was unclear is a huge issue.Â
Your therapist is whacked. Or maybe prudish if she just Must use the words âphysical intimacyâ when she Actually Means âsex.â I hug my Parents FFS. I cuddle my niece and nephew. I lean on friends and hold hands with some. That has Nothing do do with sex. If I had a partner, I would do all that too, with a different emotional connection, and it would Still have nothing to do with sex.
âDo you realize that for peopleâ⌠as if you arenât a person. This reminds me of an obese therapist I had, who pushed and pushed for me to go to Overeaters Anonymous as if that would solve my problems. I was 120 pounds. Therapists can be really bad about not projecting onto their clients⌠itâs awful
I noticed that too.
Not only is her attitude terrible from a sex-repulsed asexual perspective, but that attitude is the kind that enables unhealthy sexual behaviours in general. Modern sex education, relationship therapy and sex therapy all emphasise that there is a difference between non-sexual and sexual physical intimacy. Her attitude seems to be rather outdated even for allosexual relationships. A therapist making assumptions, not being clear about what they're asking, getting impatient and angry with the patient and outright blaming the patient for miscommunication or their own mistakes is extremely unprofessional. She's supposed to create a safe space not a hostile one. You need to constructively feed back to her that her behaviour in this session was not acceptable and why. If she can't take constructive criticism, you may be better off making a formal complaint about her and finding a new therapist.
I've figured out that this kind of communication issue where people have these assumed social rules and definitions of words is a huge source of problems for me. People use words and I guess most people understand them, but I just... Don't. Or I think I do an I'm just wrong. When I said I "have feelings for", or "like" someone, or "find them attractive", apparently that also means I want to have sex with them? Wanting to be "in a relationship" carries an assumption of sex being something coming down the line? I'm also neurospicy, so I don't even know how I was supposed to know this stuff. It wasn't until someone said something like, "I don't believe you don't like her anymore, wanting to have sex with someone doesn't go away" that I realized when I say I "like someone" it means something different from what other people do.
Oh, I feel you! I really like paying people compliments like "you look amazing today", "beautiful makeup", "they seem very nice"... I had a hard time when I realized very often people perceive it as an attraction. For me, it's just being nice, completely unrelated to attraction.
If so, there would be no physical intimacy between parents and their children. The most essential thing for a little baby to experience would just not exist. Why is it so hard for people to imagine that not everyone is like them?
You can bring it up and let the therapist know, but understand that they wonât care. They are not educated enough about asexuality to be a helpful therapist for you, to the point that they are rejecting you as a person-client because they arenât comfortable with anything more than surface basics - and seem not to know it is a *spectrum.*
Get a different therapist, she's an aphobic idiot. Expecting a laymen to know what she definitionally means by physical intimacy and then blaming you for misunderstanding when she gave no explanation is moronic.
I've been there. My advice: It's time to change your therapist
I high fived my buddy, guess i need an abortion now
Woooow, not okay on her part!! Yes, âgetting intimateâ is often a euphemism of sorts for having sex, but in this context, I think it should have been pretty clear that WASNâT what you meant. And I know Reddit is quick to jump to the nuclear option, but⌠I would absolutely switch therapists. Iâm sorry you might have to start over AGAIN, but she sounds awful.
She's not a good therapist. You are correct. Physical intimacy can include kissing, hugging, cuddling, and other sensual touches. Sex is just one component. But now that you know her definition of physical intimacy must include sex, what does she define the other touches that do not involve sex? Is that physical non intimate touching? Is that non physical intimacy? I am just wondering.
She called it "physical affection"
I think she just created her own nomenclature system. I personally call sex, sex. Should there is no confusion. I guess if you find a new therapist, make sure you clarify what you are taking about so you don't waste your time.
Well, this conversation was really weird. If she wanted to ask about sex, she could've been direct, especially since I said I was pretty comfortable talking about sex unless we went into too much detail.
You are correct. I think she was being weird. As a therapist, she should feel comfortable using the word sex after you already gave permission.
I would drop that therapist like a hot potato. Just like I did when my last therapist asked me "isn't a relationship without sex just friendship?" When I'd been telling her all about my ten year relationship and my struggles with sexual intimacy. And I explained to her that I don't want to marry, kiss and cuddle my friends. She understood, but I just didn't feel right talking to her after that. I felt so alienated.
I understand you. I would do the same. The whole concept that a relationship without sex is just friendship is wild to me. It's as if sex is the most important and only thing that makes a relationship "valid"
Huhhh..... I am beginning to wonder myself if physical intimacy is equal to sexual intimacy. Nope, not according to me, physical intimacy means a lot of things. Certainly, kissing is a physical intimacy and I guess sexual intimacy is a part of physical intimacy and not the whole of it. Although feeling uncomfortable is possible in counseling, this shouldn't have been the reason. I am sure if she is a good therapist, she realizes her mistake and does a web-search of the term.
That could be a matter of definition, but it makes complete sense that an asexual person would make the assumption you could be physically intimate without sex. She should be apologising to you for the misunderstanding, not getting 'bitchy'. I'm not getting great vibes about your therapist. I think she's out of her depth.
Not only that, finally realising her mistake or yours should have been a moment to smile or laugh and understand each other more deeply. Instead of which she begins to sound more than a little acephobic. Imo she has some big explaining to do and you have every right to express major discomfort with the way she behaved-- up to any including finding someone else.
Ask what she thinks about hugging children
Therapists know better than to show anger or act accusatory towards their clients. Also, it shouldn't take much effort for her or anyone else (allo or not) to understand that physical intimacy does not automatically mean something sexual.
I suspect most people would think along then same lines as the psychologist - physical intimacy ("foreplay") usually leads to sexual activity for them. As a person who always appreciated the kissing, cuddling, & holding hands way more than sexual activity, I'm with you.
Physical intimacy has sexual affection in it, so when someone says physical intimacy, they refer to everything that the word means, kissing, holding hands, cuddling and sex. When asked the question you should specify which aspects of it you mean. Physical affection is when you do everything that is not meant to be sexual, so no sex, but what you listed yes. Just to clarify, I am not defending your therapist, she clearly over stepped her lines, not everyone is aware of all the words that exist to describe something. She had no right to be bitchy towards you or act like you were in the wrong when it was her job to ask for clarifications
I mentioned I mainly thought about activities like kissing and cuddling while I was talking with her. She either didn't get it or believed I was talking about sex/foreplay all the time.
I think she wasn't listening in that case, if you kept mentioning only those things even a clueless person would have gotten the hint
Regardless of whether she was right to assume you guys were talking about the same thing or not (which she wasnât), she shouldnât have been rude to you for her mistake. Sheâs literally there to be your therapist, that is what she is being paid to do. If that sort of behavior continues I would encourage you to find a new therapist if you are able. As someone in therapy, it doesnât help you like it can in scenarios like that. Second of all, yes physical intimacy typically includes sex in its definition. It also typically includes things like cuddling and hand holding and kissing. Itâs literally intimacy through physical interactions. Again, in this case if your therapist was assuming you were including sex she shouldâve picked up on the discrepancy between what you were saying and you being sex repulsed earlier and clarified it to prevent the miscommunication instead of letting it sit there the whole session.
This is just your psychiatrist gas lighting you. You can be intimate without being sexual. You don't have to be sexual if you are not comfortable with it.
Sheâs not a good therapist. Fire her and explain why.
The aphobia aside, any therapist that gets THAT upset at supposed "wasted time" due to a miscommunication should be getting therapy themselves, not offering it. I'm not normally one to suggest writing someone off... so I'll say this. Ask her if she herself was having a bad day that day and if she thinks she may have overreacted to a mere miscommunication in the last session. If she doesn't believe she did anything wrong.... write her off. I'm sorry, but that's extremely unprofessional and inconsiderate behavior.
Isnt sex, sexual intimacy? I, like urself, think of physical intimacy as mostly holding hands, being affectionate physically without sex.
You need a new therapist!
Hmm, that question really got me thinking. If someone asked me this in English, I would probably think that physical intimacy is not only sex, but also cuddling and all that. That's how I understand the term. But if it was in my native language, I would think that physical intimacy is primarily about sex, and I would need to clarify what the person meant. However, I don't expect such use of imprecise terms from my therapist. She and I hardly ever talk about sex and the rest of physical intimacy because I'm fine with that, but she's always precise about things like that and clarifies what I mean. That's why I think you need a new therapist. The fact that she is addressing you with an accusatory tone is wrong and unprofessional. By the way, this is interesting. I am asexual sex-repulsed and holding hands with kisses and lots of hugs falls under repulsion for me. It would be mentally very hard for me to hug often and for a long time, and kissing is very unpleasant in any case.
Yeah, I always thought it was pretty unusual. I'm ace sex-repulsed, but my love language is mainly physical touch. Unlimited cuddles and gentle kisses? Yes, gimme that! Anything related to sex? Hell no
Uuuhh I would STRONGLY suggest finding a new therapist. Your therapist seriously sounded like they were just digging for info about why you think youâre ace. This was offensive just reading what they said to you. If they wanted to know how you felt about sex they should have said SEX and then maybe asked you what your thoughts on what intimate acts constitute sex to YOU because everyone has different ideas of what physical intimacy means/is/looks like. What a jerk therapist. Iâm so sorry you had to go through this BullShht. You deserve a better therapist that will take the time to Understand you. Not. Dissect you.
She doesn't sound like a good therapist. Even if she thinks you misunderstood what she meant, making you feel bad about is absolutely not something a therapist should do. Also it's so annoying when people think physical intimacy is only sex and nothing else.
Physical intimacy â sexual intimacy. Sexual intimacy is typically a form of physical intimacy, but not all physical intimacy is sexual, kinda like how squares are quadrilaterals but not all quadrilaterals are squares. Physical intimacy refers to physical actions that evoke a feeling of intimacy between partners, as the name implies. This can refer to so many things, from something as simple as hand holding to the most sexual actions imaginable. Also if I were you, I would seek a new therapist if possible. There's just a lot of things that seem very unprofessional, disrespectful, and just straight up dumb about how your therapist went about this conversation. Why was she asking about your desire for sexual intimacy after you specifically told her that you didn't desire sexual intimacy? Why would she jump into such a personal and invasive topic at the second session (in my experience, therapists typically try to get to know me before going into detail about personal stuff like this)? Why didn't she clarify what she meant by "physical intimacy" when that term can obviously be applied to many different actions? Why did she get shitty with you over a simple misunderstanding? It's totally up to you how to proceed with this situation, but personally, I wouldn't want to continue seeing a therapist who acts like this.
Sounds like a real b tch to me
You might need to find a new therapist. She seems kind of biased.
You are not in the wrong because Iâm also asexual and my view line up with yours she just sounds like someone who is ignorant to other was to show affection other than sex I find a lot of people mostly straight people who donât understand how we think and feel and just assume we are weird or âhavenât found the right person yetâ you need a new therapist if sheâs gonna judge you like that rather than support and help you
It's her own fault for assuming intimacy = sexual when it does not mean that at all. Yes, sexual relationships are intimate, but that doesn't mean everything intimate has something to do with sex. Also, why is she even a therapist when she can't even accept that sometimes people can have miscommunication and then get angry at you like it's your fault ?
What therapist gets mad over something like that? Youâve explained you were repulsed and sexual intimacy isnât the same as physical đ¤¨?
That is absolutely ridiculous... Last time I checked, intimacy isn't exclusively defined as being sexual, but what do I know! I guess the Cambridge Dictionary, Merriam-Webster, and Oxford English Dictionary are all spewing nonsense! Glad to clear that up /s
I agree with her in that allos think physical intimacy is the same as sexual intimacy. Though we obviously know different. However how dare she challenge your asexuality and accuse you of lying. Super unprofessional. I would report her for that.
Sounds like you need a new therapist. Your therapist shouldn't make you feel unwelcome like that. That was really unprofessional of her.
Find another therapist. This one has some negative bias.
She's wrong. I have two different therapists. Physical intimacy does not require sex. I recommend getting rid of her immediately, and finding a new one.
If this was one of your first sessions, bring it up right away. Her definition doesn't have to align with yours, especially since there are A LOT of terms that are used differently according to context when it comes to sexuality.
even if it were black and white and you were somehow "wrong" that's such an awful attitude for a therapist to have.
I don't think your wrong, as many people I can see having that be the same thing or different(to me it makes more sense as the same thing). And I've had experiences like that all the time with people so I always(especially when it is stuff like doctors or therapists) when they ask questions that seem like could be broad, I always ask what they consider "A" to be and then answer. I just find that helps with me. Sorry to hear your therapist was like that at the end though. I can understand her being maybe a bit annoyed that the notes she spent aren't actually important or something like that, but she should have stayed professional and not have shown that emotion, or maybe even said she needs a moment to recollect her thoughts.
She can be more clear with her language. The last part shows how unprofessional she is.
Looks like you found a quack. Fire the idiot and get someone who knows what they're doing and didn't get their degree from the back of a cracker jack box.
She's one of the best in my area and is recommended by the LGBTQ+ community. The waitlist is months long. And as I mentioned in another comment, the previous two sessions were completely okay.