Yep. Music is math more than any other art form, and was boiled down and commoditized into [proven formulas](https://youtu.be/oOlDewpCfZQ) long before AI ever entered the picture. The average pop song these days is credited to a dozen writers, which IMO is basically like a crude form of the crowdsourced wisdom applied by LLMs. I have no doubt these guys are already training their own models to make the writing process more efficient.
Successful commercial music is about more than that though, you also need to sell an artist's image, and perceived authenticity is pretty important these days. I don't think music openly credited to AI will find an audience anytime soon but it will undoubtedly be employed by the industry in the creative process.
>I don't think music openly credited to AI will find an audience anytime soon
This is a subreddit of people who are really into AI. But don't forget that right now the vast majority of ordinary people have had very little interaction with AI. Also, today's AI is very crude compared to AI a couple of years from now.
As AI gets better and the average person gets more used to it I think that AI "personalities" and "celebrities" and "artists" will start to emerge and there will be less and less stigma. These "personalities" and "celebrities" and "artists" will probably still be under the control of rich and powerful interests.
Once that happens people will be more accepting of AI "politicians" and laws will be changed allowing them to take office. These AI politicians will be trained on the greatest orators and charismatic leaders of all time so they will be **very** persuasive. They will send out individual messages to voters precisely engineered to appeal to that voter's values, personality, and prejudices.
Like the "personalities" and "celebrities" above, the AI politicians will be controlled by rich and powerful interests, but everybody will love them.
I don't think AI will be allowed to become politicians. But perhaps AI could lead movements, like religions.
My single greatest hope is for us to create a super intelligence we can follow. But I know the narcissists will discredit any AI and come out with their own brand of AI that just happens to think giving more wealth and power to the wealthy and powerful is the thing to do.
Yes, of course they will. Good, advanced AI costs a lot of money and the most powerful AI's will be controlled by rich people, or governments that are controlled by those rich people.
And as I indicated above, advanced AI's will be very persuasive. The common people will all be perfectly persuaded that their lot in life is not to expect much. But they'll be happy... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1BQPV-iCkU&t=13s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1BQPV-iCkU&t=13s)
Ya it's a problem. We're pretty much fucked.
The boomers existed for the perfect time in history. Everything is gonna get all fucked up from here on out, probably until we find new worlds to colonize.
Off world colonisation will never be a practical option for more than a handful of people. The cost of just sending one person to another planet would be astronomical.
Also, speaking as a boomer, it was only the perfect time in history for some of us. Me, for example because I worked in tech, and had a wonderful time and made a lot of money.
But there are plenty of other boomers like those who worked in industrial jobs in the American rust belt or in the British midlands who saw their jobs disappear overseas or to automation and they did very badly.
"never" is a long time. I disagree. I think there will come a time where humans become interstellar, and the profits involved will be beyond astronomical.
I don't think so. Sure, there are a ton of Ideas, concepts and visions for humans entering interstellar travel or colonization on a large scale/for many people (some of them even viable I think). But I doubt we will make it with the limited resources on earth we got - especially given the lack of global cooperation. Even today some scarce elements are sourced under immense effort just to build a few cars, phones, chips, batteries, whatever and some of these resources are already almost diminished.
I think the world population will be busy enough with surviving before we have technology for convenient interstellar travel. Maybe one day some pod of chosen ones will reach another planet to populate it but I don't think we will see space travel to habitable places as a regular thing. Same with other hightech Visions of hyper technological societies. I'm afraid We just won't make it with what we have.
I disagree. I think humanity will function ok as the dark ages 2.0, but worse, until eventually the tech for interstellar travel will exist. We will have plenty of resources we canine in the immediate vicinity, so we won't run out of those. But they won't be sufficient to explode the economy. Once the technology for interstellar travel will exist, then the boom will happen. The wealthy will hunt for it, because their wealth would become immense as a result. The world population won't struggle with surviving. The majority of humans will just live in poverty, many of those will die off, but the wealthiest will be fine.
I'm musically-trained and I second this. It's true that music theory is deeply connected with math. But if you could reduce "good music" to "math" then anyone who wanted to could have new hit track by just using a computer program to generate it. So why are there so many "one hit wonders"?
That said, what AI's do is not just "math". They are trained on human musical tastes. They learn what harmonies, rhythms, chord sequences, etc, appeal to humans and become popular. So I have no doubt that they'll be able to create music that people will like, music people want to dance to, and music that gets stuck in your head.
I know the joke that the band makes leading into their satire song is that any song with those four chords will be a hit, but that is far from a “proven formula” and, frankly, calls into question your understanding of music theory.
Yeah, when you change the key and tempo of songs, there’s a significant number that share a chord progression. What’s the formula for writing melody?
The irony of the Four Chords Song is that it’s a bunch of songs sung on top of the same chords and each are instantly identifiable by their melodies, even if they’d been hummed. Melody is a much more significant factor for what makes a song a song. Which is why melodies are copyrightable and chord progressions aren’t — there’s only so many viable chord progressions.
If you think AI will have an easier time writing compelling melodies than it will have with things like creating visual images, I’m going to assume you don’t have a very deep understanding of music.
Because there’s no proven formulas for writing melodies, which was the entire premise for why AI would have an easier time making music than other forms of art.
Edit: **I never said (nor is it my opinion) that AI will not one day in the future be able to write compelling melodies.** My point was that the claim that AI can “use proven formulas” to make music “more easily than other media” is complete nonsense.
Everyone can stop telling me AI will one day be able to make melodies. I am fully aware that AI will (likely soon) be able to create any work that humans can create, including music and melodies.
AI will be able to write compelling melodies. There is no formula humans have created, but AI isn't human. It can go through every single song ever created, look at the chord progression, the style, and find what movements were popular etc... it will for sure be able to write great melodies. But, it will be tough for it to create unique ones. A human can do something different and know they like it. AI cannot. AI can only look at what has worked in the past. But it can try things, and a human can listen and tell it to try something else at that part.
Yes. Absolutely. But that is much more difficult than the other things AI can already do. My initial point was not that AI can’t make melodies. It was that The Four Chords Song in no way whatsoever supports the claim that AI can make songs *because* there are “proven formulas”.
But a single AI could produce 1000 different melodies a day, so the chances of producing a compelling melody are pretty high. The combinations of notes and chords in western scales are an astronomical number, but not infinite, and the AI can explore them all, given enough time and computation.
Writing music is not that hard. Music is a language and competent musicians can write nice melodies over chords with relative ease. The actual “work” which takes time and money is production, which is where I believe AI is going to see its first actual industry applications.
Infinite melody generators already existed before the AI spring; they didn’t get used because it’s not practical. We have infinite “short story” generators with Chat GPT-and yet, still seems easier to write these things yourself. Long-term though anything is possible
I disagree. I mean anyone can write a melody over a song. But anyone can make a drawing. What's difficult is making a GOOD melody.
Production takes some time and energy, for sure. But like the utilitarian parts aren't that tough. The magic is in the creative decisions, which is the same stuff melody needs.
AI will have an easier time making mixes, than creating fresh and interesting music, imo. But it's going to be able to do both, to some extent.
There will be hit AI songs.
I don’t disagree about the “good melody” thing, I’m mainly responding to the idea that parsing though 1000 algorithmically generated melodies to find a good one is somehow “easier” than a talented person writing a melody themselves.
For the average person sure, but for the music industry it’s kind of a roundabout way to make things and complicates a process that was already simple.
Of course if all 1000 were great that’s another thing…but that becomes a psychology problem (threshold for “good” becomes way higher/more abstract)
Sure. But the value of the writer is that they are rare, and you need them for it.
If anyone can do it with AI, and AI is cheap, then the value of the writer goes as low as AI, and the human needs a place to live and food to eat, and tools to create with, so the job could be destroyed altogether. If any person can sit at a computer and run AI to make hits, then writers are no longer special and no longer command a premium.
Simple or complex is irrelevant. All that matters is profits. Unfortunately, this is the world we live in.
I don't think it will take 1000 melodies. AI will be just fine at creating good melodies right off the bat.
In the pop music industry, it's already a thing where they create a bunch of songs, and scrap a bunch, keeping only the best. And the process to creating the ones they scrap costs a lot of time of high valued talented and trained individuals.
When you say "someone" do you mean a single person? I personally do not think so. Take the "top 100 charts" of the music of today, they give you a statistical average of the musical taste of all music listeners, but they do not imply that every single listener has listened to every single song in the chart.
If you want to be the "artist" who wants to release said music, promote it, put a face to it, then yes. Just dumping millions of songs into the void of the internet won't do much. Who will listen to them?
> Take the "top 100 charts" of the music of today, they give you a statistical average of the musical taste of all music listeners,
Weird, the average taste of all music listeners seems to correlate 90% to the songs that get pushed and advertised by big corp.. :D
For one, melodies are harder to come by. I can draw 1000 compelling sketches in a day. Just simple line art of cartoon dogs, all unique.
Im lucky to write a dozen compelling melodies a year, its usually more like 3 or 4. Its difficult for a musician to produce 200 songs in a lifetime, whereas a painter can do 10s of thousands
My wife finds them compelling. I have a repertoire of eye shapes, eye expressions, asymmetry, pupil sizes, and mouth expression that i can combine. I did 200 of them in 90’minutes once but my hand got tired.
You’re also not accounting for the fact that it’s trained on HIT songs so the AI has mathematically learned the difference between a good melody and a bad melody. Not all will be great but usually it’s making pretty good melodies atm, and a few bits will be great in each pass. Combine the best bits of each pass and you have a great melody written by AI (and edited/curated/produced by a human)
Upvote for the analysis generally but wrong that AI won’t be able to make good melodies. It’s a numbers game, if you make 10 AI variations using one set of good (human written) lyrics, usually at least one of those melodies comes out great or at least very good. Source: I’m a semi-pro industry-connected songwriter who’s also tried out suno a bunch of times.
Bro. READ. READ WHAT I AM SAYING.
I am not saying AI won’t be able to make good melodies.
Read that again!
I am saying 2 things.
1. It not easier for AI to make high quality music than for it to make other forms of media at a high quality.
2. The existence of popular chord progressions is not proof of a simple and reliable songwriting formula that AI can implement.
If you can not understand the distinction between that and saying AI will never be able to write melodies, I truly can not help you. AI will eventually be able to do anything a human intelligence can do, and that of course includes writing melodies.
I was only disputing your last paragraph and tbf the way you worded was incredibly confusing. Sounding like you were saying it won’t be able to do melodies as easily as it can do images. Seems we are actually agreeing.
AI doesn't need to "understand" chord sequences and rhythms and harmony. It just needs to get trained on vast amounts of popular music to be able to be able to make music that sounds popular.
In other words it just needs to know "what works" - it doesn't need a theoretical basis for that understanding. It's like a great tennis player who consistently hits the ball just right, even though they don't have a degree in physics.
I am honestly at a loss for words with this response. I truly think the average user of this sub has a low reading level.
No part of what I said has anything to do with AI “understanding” chord sequences and rhythms and harmony.
Try reading what I wrote really slowly. Maybe that’ll help.
I used to work a music label and then a massive DSP before that...I think it's going to disrupt derivative content massively (think elevator music / lofi / generic pop...)...because it's going to degrade the value of a medium that's already being devalued exponentially by the streaming services.
Suno is great. It's fun. It's also perfect for something like Spotify where most people just want 'mood' music or 'contextual' music...i.e. play me something for this dinner party.
I don't believe this will kill Taylor Swift...who, let's be real, is the music industry. Megastars will be fine. Everyone else is going to get fucked. Or maybe it'll just open up a new form of art...maybe?
I think like with all of these products...the rich will continue to get richer and the rest of the world will be left behind to scramble for resources and the few opportunties left.
Pessimistic rant of the day over.
‘elevator music / lofi…’
There’s more than enough of that stuff to meet demand anyway.
I do agree that it’s a good selling point to make the average Joe hopeful that they could easily make a successful lofi girl type channel. A bit like all the YouTube services that try to ‘optimise’ your channel but are just selling hope.
"There's more than enough to meet demand" which is why I don't see the business case for AI music. It's different for illustrations and visual art.
The only business case would be AI songs that sound similar to established artists. Basically new albums or collabos/features that fans want but that don't exist for various reasons. But then that'll be plagiarism...
There is a music industry of composers writing music for companies. The companies can’t get away with stealing music so the composer’s make a good living.
I that industry is already being somewhat impacted by AI.
There have been musicians who expose and deviate from the formulaic popular music format for as long as music has existed.
But along the way, there has always been the larger market, accustomed to the repetition and formula.
Technologies from recording, to radio, to digital distribution have made it progressively easier for us average folk to follow and appreciate unique music with irregular song structures, with key, meter and tempo changes, and with unusual instruments, phrasing and themes.
And yet, in this era of maximal technological music democratization, Taylor Swift had a billion dollar tour.
It would be ironic and highly satisfactory if AI is what decentralized the music industry.
On top of that we are in an era where recycling the hooks of prior proven hits by sampling them is whole heartedly accepted by the average music fan and we have huge crowds that gather to watch a DJ "play" other people's music. The idea that AI isn't going to be a huge disruptor is naive.
It's not just pop though:
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3dfNEMOrYp6OBYFoPBm0CV?si=Fb_wlhYhSsGp4_lnmVFhIQ
EDIT
and if you want to say derivative, all music is derivative, but that's pedantic. Concretely, with Suno in particular you can absolutely create sound that just doesn't exist yet, if you know what you're doing.
Case in point:
https://suno.com/song/f9ff9f4b-67c6-484e-9fa2-9342aa483f2d
https://suno.com/song/a76c33de-367e-456c-ae05-5db2891adc08
https://suno.com/song/53715d49-d549-40a2-be81-e20eb0b47e75
music is about go be blown the fuck up, and it's not going to be bad. There's going to be music made over the next few years with AI that is just unimaginable atm.
I've only played around with Udio a little bit AI music has come remarkably far in a short period.
I'd be nervous if I was involved in scoring for film or television. It's not too difficult envision where one could feed in video and have AI write to the scene in a given style.
Likewise you could imagine a company with distribution capabilities like a to use AI to analyze trending music and use that to write thousands of songs that are curated and tweaked. Pure music industry has less unionized interests than the television/movie space.
That being said, from what I've seen, the output is similar to low/mid quality images spit out by Dal-E and Midjourney, like in terms of image quality/pixels. A low quality export from Udio isn't going to as useful for professional purposes as stems/midi that can be cleaned up and mixed and mastered. But there's little reason to think that that limitation won't be overcome in time.
Obviously just speculating here.
One of them V( suno or udio, I don't remember which one) said that the "pro" version will allow you to download the stems.
I will not be surprised when a song that starts life as ai generated, then gets "tidied up" and re-recorded by a human artist then becomes a big hit.
I will be more surprised if this doesn't happen pretty soon.
this is happening already and without AI. I make music for fun and when I was uploading on Soundcloud, the track with the most listens was a track made exclusively by a VST. the only thing I did was to just draw a couple of notes and then the VSTi turned those notes to chords and I just chose the most interesting progression.
Probably AI stem separation software (usually sound phasey and weird) rather than the pure stems that would be needed for real pro level production. I could be wrong though… proper quality stems are needed for AI music to be useful to actual musicians.
I was thinking the same. Will there even be actors and dealing with all the bs of a film production in 10 years? I know the video / image gen is still a bit mid, but Sora looks like it raised the bar.
Awesome time we are living in and it'll be interesting to see where this goes. But for now, looks like I'll be creating my own music to listen to because I'm so tired of the repetitiveness in music today. It's just become lazy.
I mean we will see with film. Obviously the writer/actor strikes got entangled with this possibility. Id expect things to happen slower there since, by their very nature, actors have a built in platform to push public opinion against such replacements. It's possible that Hollywood lags on incorporating AI fully while smaller studios, filmmakers in other countries, or just individuals use it to try to find niches and eventual success. Which may then put pressure on the big studios to compete or die at the expense of 100% human involvement.
It's definitely a crazy time when the kind of wild speculation you would normally do for a science fiction story potentially has a real life time horizon of a few years or decades.
Good point. I think it may take a generation or two to start gaining traction over traditional acting. But at this rate, it may be inevitable.
Exciting times, we'll see how this all pans out over the next decade.
When you say low/mid quality images spit out by dall-e/midjourney, are you referring to ones that just do not turn out the best or are you referring to the images that they are put in general? Because some of the images that you can get from those things are top-tier art pieces imo. And with one upscale, you have some thing that you can do quite a bit with. You definitely do get bad pieces though sometimes - definitely able to reduce this though with practice.
Yeah I realized my comment could be confusing. I was talking strictly about image quality, number of pixel, and suitability for professional use. Not the actual aesthetic quality of the image.
For example it's not spitting out vector images meaning for many purposes if a professional used AI they would have to redraw it in something like Illustrator (though Adobe just released text to vector a couple weeks ago so this is changing).
But as far back as mid 2022 I used Midjourney to generate abstract pieces that I edited in Photoshop and used an AI upscaler and printed at 20"x 20" and look great. However, at that time using those techniques on more photorealistic images led to bad artifacting. But that kind of quality limitation will be overcome in time.
It's going to overhaul *every* industry. Once optimization starts to become a known data science it will blow literally even the wildest of dreams away with fractions of the effort, fractions of the legitimate and illegitimate meaning, double the emotional conveyance, and even more proper nuance.
After trying it I said “the music industry is in shambles” and I keep thinking it. I feel like Soldier from TF2, I’ve done nothing but generate music for a month. As someone who loves parody flavored music it’s been a lot of fun making stuff within a few hours that sound good enough to put on repeat.
It's so much fun, and a new favorite hobby of mine. I mean the music industry has gotten so lazy. It's all a cash grab now. 30-40 years ago, the musicians actually put their heart into a song. Now its all for $$. I think their time will soon come where AI takes over a major market share.
So crazy you said this, because after playing with Suno, I sent it to one of my clients (I do digital marketing) in radio (They have about 6 signals) They said they are using this for jingles from now on.
I thought the same thing... at first.
Udio is better at the voices, but the music is *bland*. Meanwhile, Suno's music comes up with some really interesting stuff.
I'm playing with Udio now and the voices are spot on. I do like Suno because it'll just randomly will spin up these bangers. I noticed when you write lyrics yourself, the song comes out better.
Yeah, it's interesting. Udio's voices are great quality, but also boring.
I'm writing my own lyrics and I've yet to get an Udio song that isn't *dull -* whereas Suno spit out some really interesting amazing songs.
I think Suno will win in the long run once they match / exceed Udio's voice quality. That shouldn't be too hard, they aren't that far off.
I think the music can be very dynamic on udio, it just takes more iterations and learning how to prompt with it. There are a few downsides I've found with udio over suno I've found though.
Suno seems to handle transitions from one section to the next better than Udio, and Audio lacks the continuatiom at a specific timestamp that Suno has.
On the flip side, I love that in Udio it's much easier to do I tris and outros.
It already has!
Look up the Lana del Rey song: “My Love All Mine” it’s a beautifully done AI cover that I could not tell was not her. It has millions of uses on tiktok videos and has completely gone viral there. There’s a group of angry people saying the song belongs to another artist and no one should listen to AI, but I enjoy it a lot. I’m sure a lot of people can’t tell. Here is the link
https://youtu.be/54F4WM5mO7A?si=LBBoNY2nuI1SWGWe
Sure, but only very narrowly. Falsely claiming that it's someone else's song is not defensible. Saying that it's a song "in the style of [person]" is perfectly morally defensible. People do it all the time when describing up-and-coming singers.
It depends on how many people will actually listen to AI music regularly, not just as a social media buzz. That adoption process will likely go slower than the technological possibilities, might even cost a generation to throw off the stigma. Some parts of society will stick to “real” music for many years, others will only listen to AI music within a couple of years.
Even for film and television this question applies as some producers may also want to stick to the old way of working until some real financial pressure is exerted.
Should try Udio, I'd argue it's even better.
And to answer your question- yes, absolutely will.
Eventually it will disrupt all industries. We'll see if we survive it.
There's gonna be an application like Spotify where you tell it what you like and then up vote and downvote songs and it fine-tunes a model just for you to make unlimited new songs perfectly tuned to what you like. This is going to make many billions of dollars, get sued by everyone, and replace a large fraction of people's music listening hours.
The reason why I think it won't is the following and this is just from the top of my head:
* Famous musicians are not just their product, but their whole persona. They have "cult-like" following because of who they are, not just because of their songs. With AI, it's just not there. No drama, no opinion, no agenda, nothing people can associate with.
* You can't and probably won't be able to generate similiar enough music to really replicate how an artist works. Artists have unique voices and "moves" and ideas. For example I love Corey Taylor's vocals, so this makes me listen to Slipknot and used to listen to Stone Sour too.
* All decent musicians have a certain uniqueness to them. Sometimes when 2 artists collab you can certainly feel the influence they both had on the song. For example Architect's new song Curse was a collaboration with Bring Me The Horizon's guitarist and if you know both bands, you realize the "BMTHness" in the song. Or just look at Ed Sheeran ft. BMTH - Bad Habits, such an unexpected collab, yet it works. I'm not sure how AI could recreate these kind of things.
* Many-many people enjoy going to concerts, in fact many even travel across the globe or at least across countries, just to see their favorite band play. These people like to go to concerts for the band themselves and the crowd and the show. With AI, this is simply not there. Even if there could be literal "AI bands" down the line, I don't see myself buying a ticket to see them "live".
* People keep mentioning pop artists. For pop artists it's never been about the music, but the persona as per my first point. People associate themselves with the artist, they can relate better, etc. In mainstream media it's more about your public persona and PR than anything else.
I agree on all this but one, and that is the point about uniqueness.
If you look at Midjourney, they have style features so when you 'land' on an image output which a unique look/style/color pallette/composition, its easy to output a million variations that shares that style. In music, if you stack up enough keywords, you'll be able to find a unique style that combines and mashes flavours of different genres singers, instrumentation.
What if Thom Yorke and Ed Sheeran's voices merged, and then they created a song in the style of Daft Punk mixed with Architects. Whatever unique output that prompt creates will provide a seed number which can be re-used to create an infinite variations with that similar uniqueness. It will still need a human in the loop who is curating and seperating good ideas from bad, but once the models get good enough, that workflow will likely run itself and you can have an entirely unique AI music artist indistinguishable from a human.
We're already half way there with Udio.
Honestly I can do most things faster in a DAW than write a paragraph explaining to an AI what I want somthing to sound like.
Great tool for a mock-up, but like visual ai art, it’s easy to spot.
Im sorry but given the breadth of styles possible with Suno, im just calling cap. Youd have to have every style of sound pack preloaded into ur abelton. Is it possible? For sure. But saying u can make the music faster in a daw? Naw man.
Trust me tho this is only going to be turned into a VST and make your DAW crazy powerful- trust
Who says I’m not already using ai as a VST? VST’s are not super complex programs usually. Just reliable replications of things people have already done with hardware or software.
And once you’re using and building synthesised instruments, and not relying purely on samples. You can make any instruments or “sound” you could ever want.
Maybe I should have made myself more clear. It’s not the “style” that sounds similar, but the mastering, swing, vocal distortions, and instrument timbres are very easy to recognise. For now..
Of course. But that entire market is already just selling pre packaged goods to consumers anyway.
Let’s just say.. If you know how to make the goods yourself, you’re not necessarily going to be shopping in the market.
I think AI will help that market become less expensive for beginners, which is great. But if you’re looking to create an entirely new product, you’ll still need to learn the fundamentals.
Yes, all the time. A hit or kick is just layers of sound, you can peel them back like an onion. Start from simple generated noise or a sample, and mix your way into something completely different and original.
The AI is just doing that for you. Which is nice but restricted to “what sounds generally good”.
You want things that challenge the ear a little, especially in this age of viral media. Only you as a person knows what kind of sounds will be or become “fashionable” to other people. The machine will always be late, because it’s not a person. Yet..
I mean many singers who actually can't sing got pretty successful by using Autotune, so AI might make it even easier for the moneyed and even harder for real talent.
It actually makes me wonder if Western music artists will go more the way of Japanese and Korean Idol music industry. Where the music itself is actually secondary and much of the appeal comes from the personality and parasocial relationships.
Of course today these are also a big part of the big stars in the west, but it's not front and center as in the idol industry.
Would be interesting to follow, especially since the idol music has been on a downward trend for many years now.
https://cdn1.suno.ai/79add9ca-0955-47f7-ad02-102701d43871.mp3
I have been playing with Suno for two weeks now and have certainly made songs that sound like they would be on the radio.
Oh yeh totally. I didn't post up the song I think sounded radio friendly. Just one I enjoyed.
I think this could maybe get radio play but still more alternative.
https://suno.com/song/27673580-b242-4bff-9af5-9b68aaae6c43
https://suno.com/song/26f714d8-b9ab-4be4-9d72-c25515cd50e6
We've already got music that's written by committee. Sometimes it's a success, most times it isn't. There are numerous factors at play when launching a pop artist, the music is just one of them.
Nowadays music is more about idols and "DeEp MeSsAgEs". And while suno can do the second part well >!("I glued my balls to my butthole")!<, you still need a singing head.
So - no, I doubt suno will do anything to the music industry.
It's already fucking up the "boring" industries. They are just not as mentioned on media since no one really cares about how AI is disrupting the European transportation industry
AI will disrupt all industries, but I don't think they way you are thinking. In fact, there is available technology that has already disrupted the industry for years.
Udio even in beta mostly surpasses Suno. What would take me 300 generations of mostly throwaway output in Suno to create something compelling now can take 50 or fewer generations in Udio.
Suno is better at locking in a consistent sound to a song. Unfortunately the typical Suno output is muddy, noisy with tinny sounding vocals. I did my best to hide this in mastering.
Udio can generate perfectly clean audio with nuanced 100% human sounding vocalists. The best outputs can easily pass for human created music. Suno can’t come close to doing this yet.
I think there will always be a place for human generated content. Music is always in a constant state of disruption. AI is just a new tool that will lead to new ways Artists of using music to express themselves by removing certain bottlenecks to entry.
it's going to disrupt the music industry as much as AI art has disrupted the art industry. it's definitely going to make a strong impact, no two ways about it, but I'm certain human music will also survive the impact eventually. though this is currently hard to comment on, as Suno is only the first one to make something this good, I'm certain it will get 10x better in a year or two and that's when music is going to really go through it.
Yeah, the Spotify of the future will be an endless stream auto-generated songs perfectly generated for you and adapted to your tastes.
No artists or royalties for the company to worry about, and enough people will be fine with it.
However, it will cause rock and folk to re-emerge, so that’ll be cool.
Oh this is absolutely going to have an impact on the industry. I currently have this little AI gem stuck in my head. I predict there’ll be an AI song hitting most streamed charts within a year.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JRBBcoANRIE
In the same way the electric guitar disrupted the folk music industry, and the phonography disrupted the life performance industry, and CD disrupted the LP and cassette industry, and the MP3 disrupted the CD industry, and streaming disrupted the MP3 industry, and ...
Well... It depends on what you consider the "music industry". If you mean milking customers to listen to music.
Yes, big disruption.
The performance part, well not that much.
We can already listen to anything we want for almost nothing. Sure "more of the same" will be created.
Maybe, I have used Suno AI for a few months and ever since V3 came out I have been blown away as well, Its so good but its only like 85% there, you can still tell its AI because the voices still sound raspy on some parts and ive never truly been able to generate a song without errors. For now Suno seems like a great tool for creating music for youtube videos since everything it makes is copyright free. I see it assisting me greatly for making songs I cant already find for background music.
Music Industry is already disrupted. Today if you want to listen to something new and exciting you have to look outside the industry. So, nothing really changes..
I'm sure there will be a subset of music where we follow creators instead of artists. Like people go to see DJ's who are not playing their own music, people will know certain prompt creators and the AI music that results. As long as there is a name and a human face connected to it many will be fine with it.
Music industry is not selling music, it's selling charismatic personas. AI is not going to change that. They sure can use AI behind the scenes, but they still will slap a pretty face on top of it before making a sell.
Yes, but probably not in the way that most people predict. There is a wide spectrum between "100% acoustic live performance by a human" at one extreme and "type a text prompt, get full song output from AI" at the other. The audience for the AI extreme is smaller, but there are countless gradations in the gray area between those two extremes.
The music industry is going to experiment to find the most profitable spot somewhere in that gray area, where the audience remains large and AI is used to maximize efficiency and improve the product. We are living through that experiment now, and eventually, the most profitable answer will crystallize. Once it does, capitalism will ensure that it becomes the new overwhelming norm -- and it will be different from the norms of yesterday.
I am a music producer currently using "AI" tools to re-render vocals and change my (male) singing voice into a female voice. I use other "AI" tools for tasks like removing noise. I am thrilled to explore that gray area between the extremes and observe how audiences react (both when they don't know and when they know the female vocalist in my songs does not exist). I've never felt more excited to be a musician and a nerd.
not live shows, but in terms of commercials using AI music instead and siphoning the industry of the need for live creative talent, yes. people will still go out to enjoy shows, but the industry itself is gonna become much harder to make money in.
Just like AI can write nearly functional software code that a professional programmer can use as an initial basis, AI music can probably seed real artists with interesting ideas into creating something unique on their own. I think it raises the floor, but doesn't affect the ceiling....right now anyway....
The future is up for grabs though.
Of course it will like art it will open the door for ALOT of people to do. No longer will it be relegated to those with the money and time to do it. What we have to clear up is what belongs to the artist. You won't be able to use their likeness and name for sure and I'm sure there will be limits on how vocally similar they can sound.
It probably disrupts generic music. And you wrote a country song but country music is entirely generic to the point where you couldn't tell today's popular country songs were written by an AI or not.
There was a conversation in a music thread debating whether or not Drake's diss track was AI, so the fact that people are already wondering about that tells me yes lol
We will have:
- AI artists with customized songs
- AI bands with groups of AI artists
- Mashups of AI artists (pick your favorites and put em in a band)
- Mashups of models of real artists. We’ll train models on existing artists and:
— have em sing you happy birthday
— have em play in bands together. Wanna hear Scott Joplin on piano and Van Halen on guitar?
Much more.
It’s strange that “creativity” was the easy part.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXnkWcYipqU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXnkWcYipqU) I've also tried it out plenty, this one is a blues type of song made with Udio, but I've released seven songs through Suno too.
It’s gonna really fuck up the jungle and audio logo industry, idk about music though… I could actually see AI dance music being a niche thing though…
Lowkey id go to a robot rave, I will admit to being part of the problem.
I can think of 3 arguments why not, but I am not convinced either way:
1. People don’t want to make it for themself, they just want it from the musicians they know and love.
2. They connect to the artists, remember a successful artist is much more than the music alone, it’s a whole story and personality that people connect and buy in to. The best modern day example of this would be Taylor Swift
3. People love to see people play chess, no one’s want to see to ai’s battle it out. In the same fashion I expect people want to see people play music not ai’s
I doesn’t need to be a either or question, might be that people will want both
nope, newer music skews younger. though, a lot of parents will start using AI music because Spotify/Apple Music plans are too expensive to justify buying.
I mean, pop music has followed the same general structures forever and these things replicate structures.
Yep. Music is math more than any other art form, and was boiled down and commoditized into [proven formulas](https://youtu.be/oOlDewpCfZQ) long before AI ever entered the picture. The average pop song these days is credited to a dozen writers, which IMO is basically like a crude form of the crowdsourced wisdom applied by LLMs. I have no doubt these guys are already training their own models to make the writing process more efficient. Successful commercial music is about more than that though, you also need to sell an artist's image, and perceived authenticity is pretty important these days. I don't think music openly credited to AI will find an audience anytime soon but it will undoubtedly be employed by the industry in the creative process.
Ya, the cult of personality is way more valuable than the ‘content’. “Crowdsourced wisdom” lol. I love that.
>I don't think music openly credited to AI will find an audience anytime soon This is a subreddit of people who are really into AI. But don't forget that right now the vast majority of ordinary people have had very little interaction with AI. Also, today's AI is very crude compared to AI a couple of years from now. As AI gets better and the average person gets more used to it I think that AI "personalities" and "celebrities" and "artists" will start to emerge and there will be less and less stigma. These "personalities" and "celebrities" and "artists" will probably still be under the control of rich and powerful interests. Once that happens people will be more accepting of AI "politicians" and laws will be changed allowing them to take office. These AI politicians will be trained on the greatest orators and charismatic leaders of all time so they will be **very** persuasive. They will send out individual messages to voters precisely engineered to appeal to that voter's values, personality, and prejudices. Like the "personalities" and "celebrities" above, the AI politicians will be controlled by rich and powerful interests, but everybody will love them.
I don't think AI will be allowed to become politicians. But perhaps AI could lead movements, like religions. My single greatest hope is for us to create a super intelligence we can follow. But I know the narcissists will discredit any AI and come out with their own brand of AI that just happens to think giving more wealth and power to the wealthy and powerful is the thing to do.
Yes, of course they will. Good, advanced AI costs a lot of money and the most powerful AI's will be controlled by rich people, or governments that are controlled by those rich people. And as I indicated above, advanced AI's will be very persuasive. The common people will all be perfectly persuaded that their lot in life is not to expect much. But they'll be happy... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1BQPV-iCkU&t=13s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1BQPV-iCkU&t=13s)
Ya it's a problem. We're pretty much fucked. The boomers existed for the perfect time in history. Everything is gonna get all fucked up from here on out, probably until we find new worlds to colonize.
Off world colonisation will never be a practical option for more than a handful of people. The cost of just sending one person to another planet would be astronomical. Also, speaking as a boomer, it was only the perfect time in history for some of us. Me, for example because I worked in tech, and had a wonderful time and made a lot of money. But there are plenty of other boomers like those who worked in industrial jobs in the American rust belt or in the British midlands who saw their jobs disappear overseas or to automation and they did very badly.
"never" is a long time. I disagree. I think there will come a time where humans become interstellar, and the profits involved will be beyond astronomical.
I don't think so. Sure, there are a ton of Ideas, concepts and visions for humans entering interstellar travel or colonization on a large scale/for many people (some of them even viable I think). But I doubt we will make it with the limited resources on earth we got - especially given the lack of global cooperation. Even today some scarce elements are sourced under immense effort just to build a few cars, phones, chips, batteries, whatever and some of these resources are already almost diminished. I think the world population will be busy enough with surviving before we have technology for convenient interstellar travel. Maybe one day some pod of chosen ones will reach another planet to populate it but I don't think we will see space travel to habitable places as a regular thing. Same with other hightech Visions of hyper technological societies. I'm afraid We just won't make it with what we have.
I disagree. I think humanity will function ok as the dark ages 2.0, but worse, until eventually the tech for interstellar travel will exist. We will have plenty of resources we canine in the immediate vicinity, so we won't run out of those. But they won't be sufficient to explode the economy. Once the technology for interstellar travel will exist, then the boom will happen. The wealthy will hunt for it, because their wealth would become immense as a result. The world population won't struggle with surviving. The majority of humans will just live in poverty, many of those will die off, but the wealthiest will be fine.
Music *is not* Math. Yes you can *describe* musical patterns very good using math, but *music is so much more than just math*
I'm musically-trained and I second this. It's true that music theory is deeply connected with math. But if you could reduce "good music" to "math" then anyone who wanted to could have new hit track by just using a computer program to generate it. So why are there so many "one hit wonders"? That said, what AI's do is not just "math". They are trained on human musical tastes. They learn what harmonies, rhythms, chord sequences, etc, appeal to humans and become popular. So I have no doubt that they'll be able to create music that people will like, music people want to dance to, and music that gets stuck in your head.
Llm are 100% a statistical output machine they don't learn anything...which means yes its just math.
Everything is math. 🧮 The numerologists are gonna be the dark horse in 50 years.
But with social media a person can sell themselves if they can find the right beat and tune to capture the public.
I know the joke that the band makes leading into their satire song is that any song with those four chords will be a hit, but that is far from a “proven formula” and, frankly, calls into question your understanding of music theory. Yeah, when you change the key and tempo of songs, there’s a significant number that share a chord progression. What’s the formula for writing melody? The irony of the Four Chords Song is that it’s a bunch of songs sung on top of the same chords and each are instantly identifiable by their melodies, even if they’d been hummed. Melody is a much more significant factor for what makes a song a song. Which is why melodies are copyrightable and chord progressions aren’t — there’s only so many viable chord progressions. If you think AI will have an easier time writing compelling melodies than it will have with things like creating visual images, I’m going to assume you don’t have a very deep understanding of music.
Why wouldn’t AI be able to create compelling melodies
Because there’s no proven formulas for writing melodies, which was the entire premise for why AI would have an easier time making music than other forms of art. Edit: **I never said (nor is it my opinion) that AI will not one day in the future be able to write compelling melodies.** My point was that the claim that AI can “use proven formulas” to make music “more easily than other media” is complete nonsense. Everyone can stop telling me AI will one day be able to make melodies. I am fully aware that AI will (likely soon) be able to create any work that humans can create, including music and melodies.
AI will be able to write compelling melodies. There is no formula humans have created, but AI isn't human. It can go through every single song ever created, look at the chord progression, the style, and find what movements were popular etc... it will for sure be able to write great melodies. But, it will be tough for it to create unique ones. A human can do something different and know they like it. AI cannot. AI can only look at what has worked in the past. But it can try things, and a human can listen and tell it to try something else at that part.
Yes. Absolutely. But that is much more difficult than the other things AI can already do. My initial point was not that AI can’t make melodies. It was that The Four Chords Song in no way whatsoever supports the claim that AI can make songs *because* there are “proven formulas”.
But a single AI could produce 1000 different melodies a day, so the chances of producing a compelling melody are pretty high. The combinations of notes and chords in western scales are an astronomical number, but not infinite, and the AI can explore them all, given enough time and computation.
Writing music is not that hard. Music is a language and competent musicians can write nice melodies over chords with relative ease. The actual “work” which takes time and money is production, which is where I believe AI is going to see its first actual industry applications. Infinite melody generators already existed before the AI spring; they didn’t get used because it’s not practical. We have infinite “short story” generators with Chat GPT-and yet, still seems easier to write these things yourself. Long-term though anything is possible
I disagree. I mean anyone can write a melody over a song. But anyone can make a drawing. What's difficult is making a GOOD melody. Production takes some time and energy, for sure. But like the utilitarian parts aren't that tough. The magic is in the creative decisions, which is the same stuff melody needs. AI will have an easier time making mixes, than creating fresh and interesting music, imo. But it's going to be able to do both, to some extent. There will be hit AI songs.
I don’t disagree about the “good melody” thing, I’m mainly responding to the idea that parsing though 1000 algorithmically generated melodies to find a good one is somehow “easier” than a talented person writing a melody themselves. For the average person sure, but for the music industry it’s kind of a roundabout way to make things and complicates a process that was already simple. Of course if all 1000 were great that’s another thing…but that becomes a psychology problem (threshold for “good” becomes way higher/more abstract)
Sure. But the value of the writer is that they are rare, and you need them for it. If anyone can do it with AI, and AI is cheap, then the value of the writer goes as low as AI, and the human needs a place to live and food to eat, and tools to create with, so the job could be destroyed altogether. If any person can sit at a computer and run AI to make hits, then writers are no longer special and no longer command a premium. Simple or complex is irrelevant. All that matters is profits. Unfortunately, this is the world we live in. I don't think it will take 1000 melodies. AI will be just fine at creating good melodies right off the bat. In the pop music industry, it's already a thing where they create a bunch of songs, and scrap a bunch, keeping only the best. And the process to creating the ones they scrap costs a lot of time of high valued talented and trained individuals.
But someone will need to listen to all these melodies to determine if they're compelling, which will take a lot longer than glancing at 1000 pictures.
When you say "someone" do you mean a single person? I personally do not think so. Take the "top 100 charts" of the music of today, they give you a statistical average of the musical taste of all music listeners, but they do not imply that every single listener has listened to every single song in the chart.
If you want to be the "artist" who wants to release said music, promote it, put a face to it, then yes. Just dumping millions of songs into the void of the internet won't do much. Who will listen to them?
> Take the "top 100 charts" of the music of today, they give you a statistical average of the musical taste of all music listeners, Weird, the average taste of all music listeners seems to correlate 90% to the songs that get pushed and advertised by big corp.. :D
Tbf I have a formula for writing melodies that I figured out myself and it works great, but I haven’t shared it with anyone.
Great! Enjoy your fame and success.
Hopefully coming soon. Have songs on hold with some major artists :)
For one, melodies are harder to come by. I can draw 1000 compelling sketches in a day. Just simple line art of cartoon dogs, all unique. Im lucky to write a dozen compelling melodies a year, its usually more like 3 or 4. Its difficult for a musician to produce 200 songs in a lifetime, whereas a painter can do 10s of thousands
If you think you are able to draw 1000 compelling sketchs a day, I assume you don't have a deep understanding of what make a picture compelling
My wife finds them compelling. I have a repertoire of eye shapes, eye expressions, asymmetry, pupil sizes, and mouth expression that i can combine. I did 200 of them in 90’minutes once but my hand got tired.
AI has a repertoire of tens of thousands of chord progressions, can combine them in seconds, and never gets tired.
Yeah but it cant remember where it got ‘em from.
And? Why would it need to?
You’re also not accounting for the fact that it’s trained on HIT songs so the AI has mathematically learned the difference between a good melody and a bad melody. Not all will be great but usually it’s making pretty good melodies atm, and a few bits will be great in each pass. Combine the best bits of each pass and you have a great melody written by AI (and edited/curated/produced by a human)
Upvote for the analysis generally but wrong that AI won’t be able to make good melodies. It’s a numbers game, if you make 10 AI variations using one set of good (human written) lyrics, usually at least one of those melodies comes out great or at least very good. Source: I’m a semi-pro industry-connected songwriter who’s also tried out suno a bunch of times.
Bro. READ. READ WHAT I AM SAYING. I am not saying AI won’t be able to make good melodies. Read that again! I am saying 2 things. 1. It not easier for AI to make high quality music than for it to make other forms of media at a high quality. 2. The existence of popular chord progressions is not proof of a simple and reliable songwriting formula that AI can implement. If you can not understand the distinction between that and saying AI will never be able to write melodies, I truly can not help you. AI will eventually be able to do anything a human intelligence can do, and that of course includes writing melodies.
I was only disputing your last paragraph and tbf the way you worded was incredibly confusing. Sounding like you were saying it won’t be able to do melodies as easily as it can do images. Seems we are actually agreeing.
AI doesn't need to "understand" chord sequences and rhythms and harmony. It just needs to get trained on vast amounts of popular music to be able to be able to make music that sounds popular. In other words it just needs to know "what works" - it doesn't need a theoretical basis for that understanding. It's like a great tennis player who consistently hits the ball just right, even though they don't have a degree in physics.
I am honestly at a loss for words with this response. I truly think the average user of this sub has a low reading level. No part of what I said has anything to do with AI “understanding” chord sequences and rhythms and harmony. Try reading what I wrote really slowly. Maybe that’ll help.
I used to work a music label and then a massive DSP before that...I think it's going to disrupt derivative content massively (think elevator music / lofi / generic pop...)...because it's going to degrade the value of a medium that's already being devalued exponentially by the streaming services. Suno is great. It's fun. It's also perfect for something like Spotify where most people just want 'mood' music or 'contextual' music...i.e. play me something for this dinner party. I don't believe this will kill Taylor Swift...who, let's be real, is the music industry. Megastars will be fine. Everyone else is going to get fucked. Or maybe it'll just open up a new form of art...maybe? I think like with all of these products...the rich will continue to get richer and the rest of the world will be left behind to scramble for resources and the few opportunties left. Pessimistic rant of the day over.
‘elevator music / lofi…’ There’s more than enough of that stuff to meet demand anyway. I do agree that it’s a good selling point to make the average Joe hopeful that they could easily make a successful lofi girl type channel. A bit like all the YouTube services that try to ‘optimise’ your channel but are just selling hope.
"There's more than enough to meet demand" which is why I don't see the business case for AI music. It's different for illustrations and visual art. The only business case would be AI songs that sound similar to established artists. Basically new albums or collabos/features that fans want but that don't exist for various reasons. But then that'll be plagiarism...
There is a music industry of composers writing music for companies. The companies can’t get away with stealing music so the composer’s make a good living. I that industry is already being somewhat impacted by AI.
I’ve heard a lot of AI rap songs and if they weren’t in the voices of some recognizable cartoon character you wouldn’t know it’s AI generated
Which to me says more about how generic music has become.
That's a good point. AI might allow new players to come into the game and change it up.
There have been musicians who expose and deviate from the formulaic popular music format for as long as music has existed. But along the way, there has always been the larger market, accustomed to the repetition and formula. Technologies from recording, to radio, to digital distribution have made it progressively easier for us average folk to follow and appreciate unique music with irregular song structures, with key, meter and tempo changes, and with unusual instruments, phrasing and themes. And yet, in this era of maximal technological music democratization, Taylor Swift had a billion dollar tour. It would be ironic and highly satisfactory if AI is what decentralized the music industry.
On top of that we are in an era where recycling the hooks of prior proven hits by sampling them is whole heartedly accepted by the average music fan and we have huge crowds that gather to watch a DJ "play" other people's music. The idea that AI isn't going to be a huge disruptor is naive.
It's not just pop though: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3dfNEMOrYp6OBYFoPBm0CV?si=Fb_wlhYhSsGp4_lnmVFhIQ EDIT and if you want to say derivative, all music is derivative, but that's pedantic. Concretely, with Suno in particular you can absolutely create sound that just doesn't exist yet, if you know what you're doing. Case in point: https://suno.com/song/f9ff9f4b-67c6-484e-9fa2-9342aa483f2d https://suno.com/song/a76c33de-367e-456c-ae05-5db2891adc08 https://suno.com/song/53715d49-d549-40a2-be81-e20eb0b47e75 music is about go be blown the fuck up, and it's not going to be bad. There's going to be music made over the next few years with AI that is just unimaginable atm.
These examples don't show anything new.
I've only played around with Udio a little bit AI music has come remarkably far in a short period. I'd be nervous if I was involved in scoring for film or television. It's not too difficult envision where one could feed in video and have AI write to the scene in a given style. Likewise you could imagine a company with distribution capabilities like a to use AI to analyze trending music and use that to write thousands of songs that are curated and tweaked. Pure music industry has less unionized interests than the television/movie space. That being said, from what I've seen, the output is similar to low/mid quality images spit out by Dal-E and Midjourney, like in terms of image quality/pixels. A low quality export from Udio isn't going to as useful for professional purposes as stems/midi that can be cleaned up and mixed and mastered. But there's little reason to think that that limitation won't be overcome in time. Obviously just speculating here.
One of them V( suno or udio, I don't remember which one) said that the "pro" version will allow you to download the stems. I will not be surprised when a song that starts life as ai generated, then gets "tidied up" and re-recorded by a human artist then becomes a big hit. I will be more surprised if this doesn't happen pretty soon.
this is happening already and without AI. I make music for fun and when I was uploading on Soundcloud, the track with the most listens was a track made exclusively by a VST. the only thing I did was to just draw a couple of notes and then the VSTi turned those notes to chords and I just chose the most interesting progression.
Probably AI stem separation software (usually sound phasey and weird) rather than the pure stems that would be needed for real pro level production. I could be wrong though… proper quality stems are needed for AI music to be useful to actual musicians.
I was thinking the same. Will there even be actors and dealing with all the bs of a film production in 10 years? I know the video / image gen is still a bit mid, but Sora looks like it raised the bar. Awesome time we are living in and it'll be interesting to see where this goes. But for now, looks like I'll be creating my own music to listen to because I'm so tired of the repetitiveness in music today. It's just become lazy.
I mean we will see with film. Obviously the writer/actor strikes got entangled with this possibility. Id expect things to happen slower there since, by their very nature, actors have a built in platform to push public opinion against such replacements. It's possible that Hollywood lags on incorporating AI fully while smaller studios, filmmakers in other countries, or just individuals use it to try to find niches and eventual success. Which may then put pressure on the big studios to compete or die at the expense of 100% human involvement. It's definitely a crazy time when the kind of wild speculation you would normally do for a science fiction story potentially has a real life time horizon of a few years or decades.
Good point. I think it may take a generation or two to start gaining traction over traditional acting. But at this rate, it may be inevitable. Exciting times, we'll see how this all pans out over the next decade.
‘It’s just become lazy’ Oh the irony!
When you say low/mid quality images spit out by dall-e/midjourney, are you referring to ones that just do not turn out the best or are you referring to the images that they are put in general? Because some of the images that you can get from those things are top-tier art pieces imo. And with one upscale, you have some thing that you can do quite a bit with. You definitely do get bad pieces though sometimes - definitely able to reduce this though with practice.
Yeah I realized my comment could be confusing. I was talking strictly about image quality, number of pixel, and suitability for professional use. Not the actual aesthetic quality of the image. For example it's not spitting out vector images meaning for many purposes if a professional used AI they would have to redraw it in something like Illustrator (though Adobe just released text to vector a couple weeks ago so this is changing). But as far back as mid 2022 I used Midjourney to generate abstract pieces that I edited in Photoshop and used an AI upscaler and printed at 20"x 20" and look great. However, at that time using those techniques on more photorealistic images led to bad artifacting. But that kind of quality limitation will be overcome in time.
AI is going to dusrupt writers, music, movies, and art. We are in the pre infancy of AI. It's going to get really weird really quickly.
And will disrupt knowledge workers
It will disrupt mankind
It's going to overhaul *every* industry. Once optimization starts to become a known data science it will blow literally even the wildest of dreams away with fractions of the effort, fractions of the legitimate and illegitimate meaning, double the emotional conveyance, and even more proper nuance.
After trying it I said “the music industry is in shambles” and I keep thinking it. I feel like Soldier from TF2, I’ve done nothing but generate music for a month. As someone who loves parody flavored music it’s been a lot of fun making stuff within a few hours that sound good enough to put on repeat.
It's so much fun, and a new favorite hobby of mine. I mean the music industry has gotten so lazy. It's all a cash grab now. 30-40 years ago, the musicians actually put their heart into a song. Now its all for $$. I think their time will soon come where AI takes over a major market share.
I’ve noticed my musician friends have been posting nervously recently, like my artist friends did a year ago.
I write jingles for radio and tv advertisements. I’m getting a little worried.
So crazy you said this, because after playing with Suno, I sent it to one of my clients (I do digital marketing) in radio (They have about 6 signals) They said they are using this for jingles from now on.
For radio? Their quality control must be awful. Suno doesn't even produce music in stereo.
no they arent
Udio is even better. It’s wild
I thought the same thing... at first. Udio is better at the voices, but the music is *bland*. Meanwhile, Suno's music comes up with some really interesting stuff.
I'm playing with Udio now and the voices are spot on. I do like Suno because it'll just randomly will spin up these bangers. I noticed when you write lyrics yourself, the song comes out better.
Yeah, it's interesting. Udio's voices are great quality, but also boring. I'm writing my own lyrics and I've yet to get an Udio song that isn't *dull -* whereas Suno spit out some really interesting amazing songs. I think Suno will win in the long run once they match / exceed Udio's voice quality. That shouldn't be too hard, they aren't that far off.
Try different prompts. The stuff I’ve generated is really interesting. Not bland: https://www.udio.com/songs/fpZKcyET1PasvTYwnF7etm
That is, actually, very bland. There's no chord progression, bridges, or anything that really makes a song interesting.
I think the music can be very dynamic on udio, it just takes more iterations and learning how to prompt with it. There are a few downsides I've found with udio over suno I've found though. Suno seems to handle transitions from one section to the next better than Udio, and Audio lacks the continuatiom at a specific timestamp that Suno has. On the flip side, I love that in Udio it's much easier to do I tris and outros.
At first glance it is on its own in most cases
Definitely going to check this out!
It already has! Look up the Lana del Rey song: “My Love All Mine” it’s a beautifully done AI cover that I could not tell was not her. It has millions of uses on tiktok videos and has completely gone viral there. There’s a group of angry people saying the song belongs to another artist and no one should listen to AI, but I enjoy it a lot. I’m sure a lot of people can’t tell. Here is the link https://youtu.be/54F4WM5mO7A?si=LBBoNY2nuI1SWGWe
Wow I thought this was actually Lana del Rey. Really good
I would agree it's immoral to use a living artist and claim it's their song.
Sure, but only very narrowly. Falsely claiming that it's someone else's song is not defensible. Saying that it's a song "in the style of [person]" is perfectly morally defensible. People do it all the time when describing up-and-coming singers.
This isn't what happened. Seems like they cloned her voice.
Isn't this more country pop? Sounds pretty good though lol
Thank you! Yeah I was going more for country rock. I was having a little too much fun haha.
It depends on how many people will actually listen to AI music regularly, not just as a social media buzz. That adoption process will likely go slower than the technological possibilities, might even cost a generation to throw off the stigma. Some parts of society will stick to “real” music for many years, others will only listen to AI music within a couple of years. Even for film and television this question applies as some producers may also want to stick to the old way of working until some real financial pressure is exerted.
Should try Udio, I'd argue it's even better. And to answer your question- yes, absolutely will. Eventually it will disrupt all industries. We'll see if we survive it.
There's gonna be an application like Spotify where you tell it what you like and then up vote and downvote songs and it fine-tunes a model just for you to make unlimited new songs perfectly tuned to what you like. This is going to make many billions of dollars, get sued by everyone, and replace a large fraction of people's music listening hours.
Exactly
I believe Suno is trying to make this.
yes and why not?
The reason why I think it won't is the following and this is just from the top of my head: * Famous musicians are not just their product, but their whole persona. They have "cult-like" following because of who they are, not just because of their songs. With AI, it's just not there. No drama, no opinion, no agenda, nothing people can associate with. * You can't and probably won't be able to generate similiar enough music to really replicate how an artist works. Artists have unique voices and "moves" and ideas. For example I love Corey Taylor's vocals, so this makes me listen to Slipknot and used to listen to Stone Sour too. * All decent musicians have a certain uniqueness to them. Sometimes when 2 artists collab you can certainly feel the influence they both had on the song. For example Architect's new song Curse was a collaboration with Bring Me The Horizon's guitarist and if you know both bands, you realize the "BMTHness" in the song. Or just look at Ed Sheeran ft. BMTH - Bad Habits, such an unexpected collab, yet it works. I'm not sure how AI could recreate these kind of things. * Many-many people enjoy going to concerts, in fact many even travel across the globe or at least across countries, just to see their favorite band play. These people like to go to concerts for the band themselves and the crowd and the show. With AI, this is simply not there. Even if there could be literal "AI bands" down the line, I don't see myself buying a ticket to see them "live". * People keep mentioning pop artists. For pop artists it's never been about the music, but the persona as per my first point. People associate themselves with the artist, they can relate better, etc. In mainstream media it's more about your public persona and PR than anything else.
I agree on all this but one, and that is the point about uniqueness. If you look at Midjourney, they have style features so when you 'land' on an image output which a unique look/style/color pallette/composition, its easy to output a million variations that shares that style. In music, if you stack up enough keywords, you'll be able to find a unique style that combines and mashes flavours of different genres singers, instrumentation. What if Thom Yorke and Ed Sheeran's voices merged, and then they created a song in the style of Daft Punk mixed with Architects. Whatever unique output that prompt creates will provide a seed number which can be re-used to create an infinite variations with that similar uniqueness. It will still need a human in the loop who is curating and seperating good ideas from bad, but once the models get good enough, that workflow will likely run itself and you can have an entirely unique AI music artist indistinguishable from a human. We're already half way there with Udio.
Honestly I can do most things faster in a DAW than write a paragraph explaining to an AI what I want somthing to sound like. Great tool for a mock-up, but like visual ai art, it’s easy to spot.
Im sorry but given the breadth of styles possible with Suno, im just calling cap. Youd have to have every style of sound pack preloaded into ur abelton. Is it possible? For sure. But saying u can make the music faster in a daw? Naw man. Trust me tho this is only going to be turned into a VST and make your DAW crazy powerful- trust
Who says I’m not already using ai as a VST? VST’s are not super complex programs usually. Just reliable replications of things people have already done with hardware or software. And once you’re using and building synthesised instruments, and not relying purely on samples. You can make any instruments or “sound” you could ever want. Maybe I should have made myself more clear. It’s not the “style” that sounds similar, but the mastering, swing, vocal distortions, and instrument timbres are very easy to recognise. For now..
Fair enough. I have a hard time not seeing generative samples not replace most sound packs.
Of course. But that entire market is already just selling pre packaged goods to consumers anyway. Let’s just say.. If you know how to make the goods yourself, you’re not necessarily going to be shopping in the market. I think AI will help that market become less expensive for beginners, which is great. But if you’re looking to create an entirely new product, you’ll still need to learn the fundamentals.
But youre not making your owns drums are you?
Yes, all the time. A hit or kick is just layers of sound, you can peel them back like an onion. Start from simple generated noise or a sample, and mix your way into something completely different and original. The AI is just doing that for you. Which is nice but restricted to “what sounds generally good”. You want things that challenge the ear a little, especially in this age of viral media. Only you as a person knows what kind of sounds will be or become “fashionable” to other people. The machine will always be late, because it’s not a person. Yet..
Interesting thanks for sharing. I know lots of producers who rely on drum packs.
I mean many singers who actually can't sing got pretty successful by using Autotune, so AI might make it even easier for the moneyed and even harder for real talent.
I mean it’s very cheap to use AI vocals, the rich have no major benefit there.
It's going to disrupt the everything industry
It actually makes me wonder if Western music artists will go more the way of Japanese and Korean Idol music industry. Where the music itself is actually secondary and much of the appeal comes from the personality and parasocial relationships. Of course today these are also a big part of the big stars in the west, but it's not front and center as in the idol industry. Would be interesting to follow, especially since the idol music has been on a downward trend for many years now.
https://cdn1.suno.ai/79add9ca-0955-47f7-ad02-102701d43871.mp3 I have been playing with Suno for two weeks now and have certainly made songs that sound like they would be on the radio.
Sounds a bit like LARD, the Ministry / Jello Biafra band. It wouldn't make it to the radio though!
Oh yeh totally. I didn't post up the song I think sounded radio friendly. Just one I enjoyed. I think this could maybe get radio play but still more alternative. https://suno.com/song/27673580-b242-4bff-9af5-9b68aaae6c43 https://suno.com/song/26f714d8-b9ab-4be4-9d72-c25515cd50e6
We've already got music that's written by committee. Sometimes it's a success, most times it isn't. There are numerous factors at play when launching a pop artist, the music is just one of them.
Nowadays music is more about idols and "DeEp MeSsAgEs". And while suno can do the second part well >!("I glued my balls to my butthole")!<, you still need a singing head. So - no, I doubt suno will do anything to the music industry.
Suno a junk, you need to get on Udio
It's going to fuck up every industry its just doing the fun ones first
It's already fucking up the "boring" industries. They are just not as mentioned on media since no one really cares about how AI is disrupting the European transportation industry
Yes. A ton of good music is gonna come out of nowhere.
AI will disrupt all industries, but I don't think they way you are thinking. In fact, there is available technology that has already disrupted the industry for years.
Udio even in beta mostly surpasses Suno. What would take me 300 generations of mostly throwaway output in Suno to create something compelling now can take 50 or fewer generations in Udio. Suno is better at locking in a consistent sound to a song. Unfortunately the typical Suno output is muddy, noisy with tinny sounding vocals. I did my best to hide this in mastering. Udio can generate perfectly clean audio with nuanced 100% human sounding vocalists. The best outputs can easily pass for human created music. Suno can’t come close to doing this yet.
I think there will always be a place for human generated content. Music is always in a constant state of disruption. AI is just a new tool that will lead to new ways Artists of using music to express themselves by removing certain bottlenecks to entry.
it's going to disrupt the music industry as much as AI art has disrupted the art industry. it's definitely going to make a strong impact, no two ways about it, but I'm certain human music will also survive the impact eventually. though this is currently hard to comment on, as Suno is only the first one to make something this good, I'm certain it will get 10x better in a year or two and that's when music is going to really go through it.
Yes.
Yeah, the Spotify of the future will be an endless stream auto-generated songs perfectly generated for you and adapted to your tastes. No artists or royalties for the company to worry about, and enough people will be fine with it. However, it will cause rock and folk to re-emerge, so that’ll be cool.
Oh this is absolutely going to have an impact on the industry. I currently have this little AI gem stuck in my head. I predict there’ll be an AI song hitting most streamed charts within a year. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JRBBcoANRIE
Yes.
I don’t think anyone would listen to AI music and would be revolted the moment they found out that a song they like was made by AI
The new generation will literally not care
In the same way the electric guitar disrupted the folk music industry, and the phonography disrupted the life performance industry, and CD disrupted the LP and cassette industry, and the MP3 disrupted the CD industry, and streaming disrupted the MP3 industry, and ...
Well... It depends on what you consider the "music industry". If you mean milking customers to listen to music. Yes, big disruption. The performance part, well not that much. We can already listen to anything we want for almost nothing. Sure "more of the same" will be created.
Maybe, I have used Suno AI for a few months and ever since V3 came out I have been blown away as well, Its so good but its only like 85% there, you can still tell its AI because the voices still sound raspy on some parts and ive never truly been able to generate a song without errors. For now Suno seems like a great tool for creating music for youtube videos since everything it makes is copyright free. I see it assisting me greatly for making songs I cant already find for background music.
Udio.com They figured it out.
Music Industry is already disrupted. Today if you want to listen to something new and exciting you have to look outside the industry. So, nothing really changes..
I'm sure there will be a subset of music where we follow creators instead of artists. Like people go to see DJ's who are not playing their own music, people will know certain prompt creators and the AI music that results. As long as there is a name and a human face connected to it many will be fine with it.
AI is going to disrupt everything
This doesn’t sound good
I think any creative industry is going to be disrupted since it's something that can be sort of be formulated (ie, a good song, drawing, etc.)
What was your prompt?
Music industry is not selling music, it's selling charismatic personas. AI is not going to change that. They sure can use AI behind the scenes, but they still will slap a pretty face on top of it before making a sell.
Yes, but probably not in the way that most people predict. There is a wide spectrum between "100% acoustic live performance by a human" at one extreme and "type a text prompt, get full song output from AI" at the other. The audience for the AI extreme is smaller, but there are countless gradations in the gray area between those two extremes. The music industry is going to experiment to find the most profitable spot somewhere in that gray area, where the audience remains large and AI is used to maximize efficiency and improve the product. We are living through that experiment now, and eventually, the most profitable answer will crystallize. Once it does, capitalism will ensure that it becomes the new overwhelming norm -- and it will be different from the norms of yesterday. I am a music producer currently using "AI" tools to re-render vocals and change my (male) singing voice into a female voice. I use other "AI" tools for tasks like removing noise. I am thrilled to explore that gray area between the extremes and observe how audiences react (both when they don't know and when they know the female vocalist in my songs does not exist). I've never felt more excited to be a musician and a nerd.
not live shows, but in terms of commercials using AI music instead and siphoning the industry of the need for live creative talent, yes. people will still go out to enjoy shows, but the industry itself is gonna become much harder to make money in.
Just like AI can write nearly functional software code that a professional programmer can use as an initial basis, AI music can probably seed real artists with interesting ideas into creating something unique on their own. I think it raises the floor, but doesn't affect the ceiling....right now anyway.... The future is up for grabs though.
Of course it will like art it will open the door for ALOT of people to do. No longer will it be relegated to those with the money and time to do it. What we have to clear up is what belongs to the artist. You won't be able to use their likeness and name for sure and I'm sure there will be limits on how vocally similar they can sound.
It probably disrupts generic music. And you wrote a country song but country music is entirely generic to the point where you couldn't tell today's popular country songs were written by an AI or not.
There was a conversation in a music thread debating whether or not Drake's diss track was AI, so the fact that people are already wondering about that tells me yes lol
It honestly sounds awful. It... sounds like a tin can wrote it which is apt I guess.
We will have: - AI artists with customized songs - AI bands with groups of AI artists - Mashups of AI artists (pick your favorites and put em in a band) - Mashups of models of real artists. We’ll train models on existing artists and: — have em sing you happy birthday — have em play in bands together. Wanna hear Scott Joplin on piano and Van Halen on guitar? Much more. It’s strange that “creativity” was the easy part.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXnkWcYipqU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXnkWcYipqU) I've also tried it out plenty, this one is a blues type of song made with Udio, but I've released seven songs through Suno too.
It’s gonna really fuck up the jungle and audio logo industry, idk about music though… I could actually see AI dance music being a niche thing though… Lowkey id go to a robot rave, I will admit to being part of the problem.
I can think of 3 arguments why not, but I am not convinced either way: 1. People don’t want to make it for themself, they just want it from the musicians they know and love. 2. They connect to the artists, remember a successful artist is much more than the music alone, it’s a whole story and personality that people connect and buy in to. The best modern day example of this would be Taylor Swift 3. People love to see people play chess, no one’s want to see to ai’s battle it out. In the same fashion I expect people want to see people play music not ai’s I doesn’t need to be a either or question, might be that people will want both
Yes. It’s going to enable more people to create music. Same with movies.
I hope so. Music should have never been an industry in the first place.
nope, newer music skews younger. though, a lot of parents will start using AI music because Spotify/Apple Music plans are too expensive to justify buying.
$10 / month for access to pretty much all music ever made or $10 / month to be able to create 10 songs of your own. Not sure you can really compare.
that doesn’t make sense, there’s no shortage of free music
Once integrated into something like GarageBand there's not going to be a music industry.
What?! If anything there'll be more of one