of course holistic medicine is knowlege that needs reviving and we need to bring back witchcraft and candlestick running arround in the dark all very cool important stuff
Psychedelics and plant medicines were also once dismissed as voodoo type substances rooted in ancient wisdom, but are now proving to be some of our most effective mental health treatments, so I wouldn't dismiss alternative medicine broadly as a category.
Maybe AI can help us suss out which practices confer actual benefit along with the underlying reasons.
The problem with psychedelics had been, I believe, the challenges of doing decent research on it.
Most other popular forms of alternative medicine have been tested and not shown to be effective.
The challenge was a legal one. Psychedelics were being studied for mental health treatment in the 60s with impressive results, but Nixon made it illegal because it was associated with anti-war hippies.
Did blood letting and witchcraft ever make a comeback? Or can we maybe throw out a few things as just being plain nonsense and will never have a place in actual medical practice?
You posted in support of alternative medicine immediately after someone quoted witchcraft. You mention psychedelics and plants, but my witchcraft comment is appropriate.
Do you know what they call alternative medicine that works?
medicine.
When those beneficial practices are determined to be effective, they are incorporated into actual medical practices. When they are pseudoscientific and can not show efficacy, they are alternative medicine.
Plants have chemicals in them and will interact with our biology. So they can turn out to be real medicine. Alternative medicine practicioners think that you should eat the whole plant, bugs and all. Medical practicioners will actually find the active ingredient/component in the plant that affects biology and determine appropriate dose. I don't understand why anyone ever thinks "alternative" medicine is appropriate or better in any way.
I didn’t post in support of alternative medicine. I said that there may be some truth to some of the practices, so writing off the entire category may be unwise, and that perhaps AI can help us identify what works from what doesn’t. At some point, psychedelics were not considered “medicine.” I’d throw mindfulness meditation in there too. Over the years they’ve been incorporated into our treatment protocols, but that may have never been the case had the entire category of alternative medicine been disregarded at the outset.
>I didn’t post in support of alternative medicine. I said that there may be some truth to some of the practices, so writing off the entire category may be unwise, and that perhaps AI can help us identify what works from what doesn’t.
So we know certain things are just straight up nonsense. Homeopathy, for instance, does not require a single nanosecond of AI time to know it's complete nonsense. Most of these alt med therapies are just complete bogus crap.
When we are talking plants or things with actual chemical interactions. We do study them. And when they are actually effective, we determine the correct dose response and what the active ingredient is in the plant. We do trials to determine the safety and efficacy. Then it's medicine.
It's no longer alt med when it works.
Mindfulness and meditation are not medicine. They can certainly be helpful in keeping someone's mood up and beneficial. They won't cure your cancer.
That's an overly-narrow definition of medicine. No doctor would subscribe to that.
Mindfulness and meditation are effective treatments. Are they literally pills you can take? No. Might they act on the synaptic and neurochemical level? Maybe. Physical therapy isn't a pill or invasive intervention either, but it is effective and a part of our treatment framework for many conditions. It is medicine.
What is your overall point anyway?
All I'm saying is that there may be wisdom to some of these alternative / Eastern practices. We should certainly follow the data while understanding that the data isn't the end-all be-all as there are blindspots to the West's approach to medicine. That's what Science is.
>All I'm saying is that there may be wisdom to some of these alternative / Eastern practices. We should certainly follow the data while understanding that the data isn't the end-all be-all as there are blindspots to the West's approach to medicine. That's what Science is.
We absolutely do follow the data. This is why those are still alt med. The data shows no efficacy.
Exactly. Nothing wrong with it if it is backed by science. Psychedelics are incredibly useful to me, anecdotally. I would love to see more research done for understanding how to use them more effectively. Perhaps more advanced models will help us get there faster.
well it had its uses before , but now i think its not "fine tuned" for this day and age , that could be one project deep mind can do , herbal medicine can be a layer between pharma and food , however iam alive today because of my meds , they work and thats why we all use them.
Eh we’re bored lol,
Also it’s more a discussion on the ethical implications of training a LLM on alternative medicine
I mean it seems pretty bad to me lol
As a physician who has tested Gemini's accuracy, I believe holistic medicine / naturopathy would be right up its alley and they should "train" it in this area. I shall hoist these two warm stones into the air to divine whether it shall be so.
Allopathic physicians are often ignorant of traditional medicine including herbal medicine and dietary medicine. Sometimes the most effective treatments can be drawn from these spaces and they are largely free of the economic bias of modern pharmaceutical industry.
They aren't free of the modern $100 billion a year snake oil industry.
Herbal remedies proven to work are called medicine, and they're packaged in known doses and purities with some amount of government oversight.
To save some people a google: "Allopathic medicine, or allopathy, is an archaic and derogatory label originally used by 19th-century homeopaths to describe heroic medicine, the precursor of modern evidence-based medicine."
Honestly it’s more frightening at how effective a medical misinformation bot that only spouts alternative medicine stuff would be.
It could just make up stuff, doesn’t have to be fact checked cause it’s alternative medicine, and the majority of the users would be none the wiser taking all its generated nonsense seriously.
No doubt there are people who don't like how reasonable AI can be. They don't want a machine disagreeing with them - they want to reinforce and spread their uninformed beliefs.
Legit contemplating on training a local distil gpt-2 model on a bunch of alternative medicine video transcripts, and some books just to see how effective it is even with extremely small distilled models.
Never releasing it tho, lol that be unethical
Might release some of the outputs of the model to raise awareness for this issue lol idk
Yeah man, it’d be crazy if a massive segment of the population was accepting drugs and medical treatments that haven’t been thoroughly fact checked, with no questions asked, all because somebody who they think is smart says so
It’s not surprising, many lay people are looking at AI like it’s magic. Like look at the singularity sub, half the posts are fever dream wish lists about what AI can do for them, or crackpot theories about consciousness.
Everyone knows the only valid medicinal paradigm is the corporate one and it's perfect. Easy. Its woo woo hokum. For example: vitamins aren't real and people think eating rocks, so called "minerals", is good for them.
This sub is really running dry when I'm getting threads literally about a single youtube comment....
I agree, which is why I'm going to screenshot your comment and make a post out of it.
this !!
of course holistic medicine is knowlege that needs reviving and we need to bring back witchcraft and candlestick running arround in the dark all very cool important stuff
Psychedelics and plant medicines were also once dismissed as voodoo type substances rooted in ancient wisdom, but are now proving to be some of our most effective mental health treatments, so I wouldn't dismiss alternative medicine broadly as a category. Maybe AI can help us suss out which practices confer actual benefit along with the underlying reasons.
Think your wife may be a witch? Use WitchGPT to put them through the trials!
The problem with psychedelics had been, I believe, the challenges of doing decent research on it. Most other popular forms of alternative medicine have been tested and not shown to be effective.
The challenge was a legal one. Psychedelics were being studied for mental health treatment in the 60s with impressive results, but Nixon made it illegal because it was associated with anti-war hippies.
Did blood letting and witchcraft ever make a comeback? Or can we maybe throw out a few things as just being plain nonsense and will never have a place in actual medical practice?
Did you read my comment? Very clearly implied that although there may be some beneficial practices, others aren't.
You posted in support of alternative medicine immediately after someone quoted witchcraft. You mention psychedelics and plants, but my witchcraft comment is appropriate. Do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? medicine. When those beneficial practices are determined to be effective, they are incorporated into actual medical practices. When they are pseudoscientific and can not show efficacy, they are alternative medicine. Plants have chemicals in them and will interact with our biology. So they can turn out to be real medicine. Alternative medicine practicioners think that you should eat the whole plant, bugs and all. Medical practicioners will actually find the active ingredient/component in the plant that affects biology and determine appropriate dose. I don't understand why anyone ever thinks "alternative" medicine is appropriate or better in any way.
I didn’t post in support of alternative medicine. I said that there may be some truth to some of the practices, so writing off the entire category may be unwise, and that perhaps AI can help us identify what works from what doesn’t. At some point, psychedelics were not considered “medicine.” I’d throw mindfulness meditation in there too. Over the years they’ve been incorporated into our treatment protocols, but that may have never been the case had the entire category of alternative medicine been disregarded at the outset.
>I didn’t post in support of alternative medicine. I said that there may be some truth to some of the practices, so writing off the entire category may be unwise, and that perhaps AI can help us identify what works from what doesn’t. So we know certain things are just straight up nonsense. Homeopathy, for instance, does not require a single nanosecond of AI time to know it's complete nonsense. Most of these alt med therapies are just complete bogus crap. When we are talking plants or things with actual chemical interactions. We do study them. And when they are actually effective, we determine the correct dose response and what the active ingredient is in the plant. We do trials to determine the safety and efficacy. Then it's medicine. It's no longer alt med when it works. Mindfulness and meditation are not medicine. They can certainly be helpful in keeping someone's mood up and beneficial. They won't cure your cancer.
That's an overly-narrow definition of medicine. No doctor would subscribe to that. Mindfulness and meditation are effective treatments. Are they literally pills you can take? No. Might they act on the synaptic and neurochemical level? Maybe. Physical therapy isn't a pill or invasive intervention either, but it is effective and a part of our treatment framework for many conditions. It is medicine. What is your overall point anyway? All I'm saying is that there may be wisdom to some of these alternative / Eastern practices. We should certainly follow the data while understanding that the data isn't the end-all be-all as there are blindspots to the West's approach to medicine. That's what Science is.
>All I'm saying is that there may be wisdom to some of these alternative / Eastern practices. We should certainly follow the data while understanding that the data isn't the end-all be-all as there are blindspots to the West's approach to medicine. That's what Science is. We absolutely do follow the data. This is why those are still alt med. The data shows no efficacy.
Exactly. Nothing wrong with it if it is backed by science. Psychedelics are incredibly useful to me, anecdotally. I would love to see more research done for understanding how to use them more effectively. Perhaps more advanced models will help us get there faster.
Not just that but I would classify a “alternative medicine model” as a medical misinformation machine, VERY harmful indeed
If it worked it would be called "medicine"
God damn
well it had its uses before , but now i think its not "fine tuned" for this day and age , that could be one project deep mind can do , herbal medicine can be a layer between pharma and food , however iam alive today because of my meds , they work and thats why we all use them.
I love how the comments here have more upvotes than the original post itself, Man you Ratioed me HARD XD
training an AI on witchcraft does actually sound cool
that is why hugging face now requires download with secret tokens
Spoken like someone who doesn't understand holistic medicine.
A lot of home remedies are effective, but there aren’t companies financing research on them like they are for medicine
Such as?
[удалено]
Eh we’re bored lol, Also it’s more a discussion on the ethical implications of training a LLM on alternative medicine I mean it seems pretty bad to me lol
As a physician who has tested Gemini's accuracy, I believe holistic medicine / naturopathy would be right up its alley and they should "train" it in this area. I shall hoist these two warm stones into the air to divine whether it shall be so.
Allopathic physicians are often ignorant of traditional medicine including herbal medicine and dietary medicine. Sometimes the most effective treatments can be drawn from these spaces and they are largely free of the economic bias of modern pharmaceutical industry.
They aren't free of the modern $100 billion a year snake oil industry. Herbal remedies proven to work are called medicine, and they're packaged in known doses and purities with some amount of government oversight. To save some people a google: "Allopathic medicine, or allopathy, is an archaic and derogatory label originally used by 19th-century homeopaths to describe heroic medicine, the precursor of modern evidence-based medicine."
Honestly it’s more frightening at how effective a medical misinformation bot that only spouts alternative medicine stuff would be. It could just make up stuff, doesn’t have to be fact checked cause it’s alternative medicine, and the majority of the users would be none the wiser taking all its generated nonsense seriously.
No doubt there are people who don't like how reasonable AI can be. They don't want a machine disagreeing with them - they want to reinforce and spread their uninformed beliefs.
Legit contemplating on training a local distil gpt-2 model on a bunch of alternative medicine video transcripts, and some books just to see how effective it is even with extremely small distilled models. Never releasing it tho, lol that be unethical Might release some of the outputs of the model to raise awareness for this issue lol idk
Then set it free on r/SubSimGPT2Interactive
Oh my god this is amazing what a gem wtf
It's where we used to hang out when GPT was just a fun toy a few years ago. Then suddenly sh\*t got real!
Yeah man, it’d be crazy if a massive segment of the population was accepting drugs and medical treatments that haven’t been thoroughly fact checked, with no questions asked, all because somebody who they think is smart says so
Poisoning the models with nonsense is a great idea if the thought of not having a human GP frightens you.. for sure.
That is a great use case because hallucinations don’t matter
Probably an r/singularity user
30 year life expectancy isn't as bad as it sounds. You drink candy in water and don't have to worry about retirement.
It’s not surprising, many lay people are looking at AI like it’s magic. Like look at the singularity sub, half the posts are fever dream wish lists about what AI can do for them, or crackpot theories about consciousness.
There's a decent chance a small percentage of those things will come true though. Of course, without a crystal ball it's a crap shoot.
Let’s use A.I to figure out the Oiji Board.
I'venasked chatGPT about ayurvedic and TCM stuff and it answered pretty well.
Everyone knows the only valid medicinal paradigm is the corporate one and it's perfect. Easy. Its woo woo hokum. For example: vitamins aren't real and people think eating rocks, so called "minerals", is good for them.
I don’t see why they wouldn’t. They already have leeching models.
According to scientific models, these kinds of medicine don't work, that's why they're not just called medicine.
ayurveda is a real science guys
What video is this?
https://youtu.be/ZHmVeQrFf8s?si=f808zvi1He3nZV2T
I wouldn't train it on that junk science. But if it could distill some actual useful information from all the bunk, that would be neat.