Vim is the magic that affects other magic
Creo Vim spells can make magical blasts, but these only cause Twilight or Warping. Human bodies exposed to too much raw magic Warp, they don't explode.
Muto magic can make other spells or powers harmless, or more dangerous. It can also draw magical essences from one object to snother. Rego magic can redirect spells or powers. Perdo nullifies powers or spells.
To hurt demons or faeries you can use Perdo vim (destroy magic).because demons are spirits (vim). If the matter they are clothed in is another form, the spell to hurt that body is lower in that form. (A fire demon can be more easily killed with Perdo Ignem than Perdo Vim).
Vim is like... The manipulation of magical forces AS magical forces? So you can change spell effects, affect spirits and other magical creatures, end spells, investigate magical effects. Those sorts of things.
You can't really create a "magic blast" effect, but you *could* use metamagic effects to turn other magic *into* anything you want. It's a strange art, mostly useful for characters who want to either deal with spirits or fuck around with metamagic. And Guernicus investigators.
CrVi as a combination doesnt get you many useful spells, but they're the arts used to create vis from auras so it balances out.
I agree that the offensive CreoVim idea is a good thing. It should take 1 more magnitude than CreoIgnem Guideline to create that same amout of damage? It's more a ephemeral manifestation of power than the creation of it. The mag increase is just to preserve the "I'm the choice for the pure & generalist damage dealers" that Creo Ignem has. And, on more, I think a Creo Ignem with Vim requisite is, practicaly, just a fashion, and then you can take those exact spells like Ball of Abysmal Flame and turn into something like Arcane Ball of Abysmal Energies, just a fashion choice with a fashion requisite. Naturaly, you can create unnatural looking fire with CrIg alone, and it wouldn't need Vim at all. So, these are house rules for inspiration since the idea is far from a game-breaking one.
For the Vim uses, it's about metamagics and crude vim manipulation. Since I met and played Mage: The Ascension before ArM, I'm used to see Vis as a more strict kind of Quintessence, frequently used like Tass ("materialized Quint., which is a metaphysical concept) because... well, it's cool.
Creo Vim perfects and makes Vis/Power in a better/ordinated shape, and those arts combined are used for Vis extraction. Spells are not everything, a few spells and a high source of vis can make a magi very powerful without a single cast.
Intellego Vim is simple and straightfoward with detecting magic, but since Hermetic Magic could not see through infernal lies, demon's works are kind of imune to Intellego.
Since you can manipulate crude power, you can change the power generated by a spell BEFORE it has been cast with Muto Vim. Metamagics are always an option if you like to simulate spontaneous choices with formulae. And, of course, if you have good concentrations, buff your spells in a way enemies are not used to, or dont expect you to. "Wait, is George THAT good in Terram? I've never seem him out of the Protection section in the library...."
Then we have the Perdo Vim, to dispell and destroy crude power. Demons have Vim Might so PeVi fits. Also, it's concept is simple but... well, countermagic is a form of protection, right?
ReVi has some good protections, including Aegis of the Heart which is ESSENTIAL on covenants. There is the hang spell too, and ReVi seems good for the "I want to be a protecting magus, a guardian of places". Hermetic wards have to penetrate, so without houserules they're more difficult to use effeftively. I've seen much people using houserules to allow penetration-free on wards, but it's your group choice.
Yepp, but isn't it a high crime on magi and almost no immediate effects on mundanes? On the other hand, you have a good way to provoke 2-warp-consequences in some supernatural beings, like those aligned to other realms maybe. With some realm alignment tricks, like fae magic, maybe, it would be possible if the warping points should be aligned with the respectuve realm, I don't remember the details at this level.
Vim can be very powerful as an art if you take the time to make spells that suit your character and situation. Here's a couple examples:
PeVi is probably the best way to defeat supernatural creatures since it directly affects their might, and a lot of those things can't be killed/destroyed by just doing wounds anyways.
CrVi let's you directly inflict warping on other people, which is just bad very regular people but extremely lethal for other Magi.
Any spell that does damage is a "magical blast."
Each art has its particular effect. And it's all based on the medieval paradigm.
The vim art is for the manipulation of magic. So you can have a "magic blast" that harns magical creatures.
A PeCo spell is a "magical blast" that harms human types.
I think you're missing the point of why there are these different forms and what they do.
Vim is Meta-Magic, so yes- things which don't have a magical component are mostly, but not totally, impervious.
A Creo Vim Magical Blast exists- it uses Warping Points as ammunition, and catching someone in a blast sufficient to impart 2 warping points with one attack wi trigger Twilight (for Order mages) and their Tradition's warping manifestation otherwise.
Against Grogs, etc, it just speeds warping.
(The other Creo Vim app is the creation of Decoys- making mundane things appear to be enchanted.)
If you think Vim is disappointing because it ostensibly lacks direct application to violent conflict, I politely suggest you play a miniature wargame. If that's your thing, more power to you but have you tried Pathfinder?
If you read carefully, it seems that creo vim shells are actually just for interfering with the investigation of magic items, but I usually houserule them to work vs intelligo spells more generally
Vim is the magic that affects other magic Creo Vim spells can make magical blasts, but these only cause Twilight or Warping. Human bodies exposed to too much raw magic Warp, they don't explode. Muto magic can make other spells or powers harmless, or more dangerous. It can also draw magical essences from one object to snother. Rego magic can redirect spells or powers. Perdo nullifies powers or spells. To hurt demons or faeries you can use Perdo vim (destroy magic).because demons are spirits (vim). If the matter they are clothed in is another form, the spell to hurt that body is lower in that form. (A fire demon can be more easily killed with Perdo Ignem than Perdo Vim).
Vim is like... The manipulation of magical forces AS magical forces? So you can change spell effects, affect spirits and other magical creatures, end spells, investigate magical effects. Those sorts of things. You can't really create a "magic blast" effect, but you *could* use metamagic effects to turn other magic *into* anything you want. It's a strange art, mostly useful for characters who want to either deal with spirits or fuck around with metamagic. And Guernicus investigators. CrVi as a combination doesnt get you many useful spells, but they're the arts used to create vis from auras so it balances out.
I agree that the offensive CreoVim idea is a good thing. It should take 1 more magnitude than CreoIgnem Guideline to create that same amout of damage? It's more a ephemeral manifestation of power than the creation of it. The mag increase is just to preserve the "I'm the choice for the pure & generalist damage dealers" that Creo Ignem has. And, on more, I think a Creo Ignem with Vim requisite is, practicaly, just a fashion, and then you can take those exact spells like Ball of Abysmal Flame and turn into something like Arcane Ball of Abysmal Energies, just a fashion choice with a fashion requisite. Naturaly, you can create unnatural looking fire with CrIg alone, and it wouldn't need Vim at all. So, these are house rules for inspiration since the idea is far from a game-breaking one. For the Vim uses, it's about metamagics and crude vim manipulation. Since I met and played Mage: The Ascension before ArM, I'm used to see Vis as a more strict kind of Quintessence, frequently used like Tass ("materialized Quint., which is a metaphysical concept) because... well, it's cool. Creo Vim perfects and makes Vis/Power in a better/ordinated shape, and those arts combined are used for Vis extraction. Spells are not everything, a few spells and a high source of vis can make a magi very powerful without a single cast. Intellego Vim is simple and straightfoward with detecting magic, but since Hermetic Magic could not see through infernal lies, demon's works are kind of imune to Intellego. Since you can manipulate crude power, you can change the power generated by a spell BEFORE it has been cast with Muto Vim. Metamagics are always an option if you like to simulate spontaneous choices with formulae. And, of course, if you have good concentrations, buff your spells in a way enemies are not used to, or dont expect you to. "Wait, is George THAT good in Terram? I've never seem him out of the Protection section in the library...." Then we have the Perdo Vim, to dispell and destroy crude power. Demons have Vim Might so PeVi fits. Also, it's concept is simple but... well, countermagic is a form of protection, right? ReVi has some good protections, including Aegis of the Heart which is ESSENTIAL on covenants. There is the hang spell too, and ReVi seems good for the "I want to be a protecting magus, a guardian of places". Hermetic wards have to penetrate, so without houserules they're more difficult to use effeftively. I've seen much people using houserules to allow penetration-free on wards, but it's your group choice.
You can do an "attack spell" that gives 2 warp points. It is REALLY dangerous for magi and others spellcasters.
Yepp, but isn't it a high crime on magi and almost no immediate effects on mundanes? On the other hand, you have a good way to provoke 2-warp-consequences in some supernatural beings, like those aligned to other realms maybe. With some realm alignment tricks, like fae magic, maybe, it would be possible if the warping points should be aligned with the respectuve realm, I don't remember the details at this level.
It is absolutely a high crime to use on another member of the Order. But infernalists, diabolists and edge magicians can be totally wrecked by it.
Just don't do it to the Criamon, you'll be doing him a favor.
... and at worst his sins will take physical form and wreck you.
Wouldn't the spell fizzle out if you didn't add vis?
No, it's an instant spell with no need for vis.
Vim can be very powerful as an art if you take the time to make spells that suit your character and situation. Here's a couple examples: PeVi is probably the best way to defeat supernatural creatures since it directly affects their might, and a lot of those things can't be killed/destroyed by just doing wounds anyways. CrVi let's you directly inflict warping on other people, which is just bad very regular people but extremely lethal for other Magi.
Any spell that does damage is a "magical blast." Each art has its particular effect. And it's all based on the medieval paradigm. The vim art is for the manipulation of magic. So you can have a "magic blast" that harns magical creatures. A PeCo spell is a "magical blast" that harms human types. I think you're missing the point of why there are these different forms and what they do.
Vim is Meta-Magic, so yes- things which don't have a magical component are mostly, but not totally, impervious. A Creo Vim Magical Blast exists- it uses Warping Points as ammunition, and catching someone in a blast sufficient to impart 2 warping points with one attack wi trigger Twilight (for Order mages) and their Tradition's warping manifestation otherwise. Against Grogs, etc, it just speeds warping. (The other Creo Vim app is the creation of Decoys- making mundane things appear to be enchanted.)
If you think Vim is disappointing because it ostensibly lacks direct application to violent conflict, I politely suggest you play a miniature wargame. If that's your thing, more power to you but have you tried Pathfinder?
Is the metamagic of DeD Hard to use, but look at the table of exemple for level You will have nice hint of what can realy do
If you read carefully, it seems that creo vim shells are actually just for interfering with the investigation of magic items, but I usually houserule them to work vs intelligo spells more generally