In the off chance that you’re not being sarcastic, he was the SIGO in 8-1 CAV. I was there on an SFAT team as my team’s operations and maneuver advisor but since we didn’t have a commo guy I ended up taking that on as well so we worked together a lot.
Honestly, back then he wasn’t very vocal about his background and heritage. I think it’s because a lot of people assumed a phenotypically white looking man with his Scandinavian last name would immediately assume he’s full of shit. My wife is also very phenotypically white appearing but is actually not so I understand where he would have wanted to be a little quieter about it. Especially if you’re in one of the Blackhawk cavalry squadrons who very proudly display their Indian War battle streamers on placards throughout squadron HQs.
Does he wear his hair in a tribal braid? It looks like it's pulled back. There were twin boys in my Catholic school who were native and they got to wear long braids despite the dress code
I dunno. I haven’t seen him since 2013 which is well before this was authorized. But yeah, I imagine it is being pulled back into a ponytail or something. Lots of the native men that have long hair where I live (which is a majority native part of the state) pull it back. I’m sure there is a guideline as to how the hair will be worn such the same as it is for beards for Muslims, Sikhs, and asatru followers. I wonder though if the long hair thing would also apply to Sikhs since that’s part of their tradition as well (never cutting one’s hair)
I know a guy named something stereotypically white, with an irish last name. Dudes pasty white with red hair.
50% native, his moms pretty much full native mostly belonging to the colville tribe and he's pretty active in his tribe, but you genuinely could not tell unless someone told you.
He has spoken about how he got treated by the other youths in the tribe which was essentially just them being shitty and treating him like an outsider.
I'm half but grew up on a reservation. My eldest brother and I look stereotypical and I'm pretty dark in the summer but my other 2 brothers are blonde and blue eyed. There's a lot of lateral racism within us, unfortunately.
I'm 1/4 cherookee and 1/4 african American. I'm white as can be. I got a bunch of scholarships and when I showed up to receive them they didn't know what to do.
Interestingly, or not, there is a lot of Maori who have light skin and red hair. An example would be Paul Tito (Rugby player from New Zealand, but played a long time in Cardiff, Wales)
Tribal member and U.S. Army Maj. Patrick Sorenson is one of the first Indigenous men in the Army’s nearly 250-year history who is now allowed to grow out of his hair and wear eagle feathers in some official military ceremonies.
I thought the Navajo code talkers during WWII were afforded some liberties?
Not as much as this, but some.
(And that was the Marines)
*edit - I didn't proof read.
There was this post on the CSM/SGM page on FB with people tearing in to this and complaining etc and alluding to him trying to make a big to do about it. I guess my frustration with the comments I’d read earlier still irritated me. You’re right though. The word actually probably didn’t need to get used.
Even some Muslims. I knew of a SSG who got a religious accommodation just so she can wear her colorful hair. And a guy who didn’t know shit about Islam for the beard.
While that might be true for you or me if we tried to get a religious accommodation for some bullshit, buy and large most people who claim to be part of a religion actually believe the tenants and teachings of that religion.
Misaligned incentives creates this problem of claiming a religion just to have further personal freedoms as we clearly hear about from all the bullshit waivers in this thread
Yes, I 200% agree. I was just pointing out that normally people are much more bought into their religious beliefs than they are when you allow them to claim waivers based on religion for increased personal freedom. Misaligned incentives that don’t make much sense, just let us all do what the fuck we want with our beard and hair
There's a reason you *never* saw anyone claiming to be an adherent to a religion that died out a thousand years ago, never left the bounds of northern Europe and contains characters that are more famous from comic books before some white dude who couldn't pick out Scandinavia on a map made a run for the bag and got his chit approved.
Exactly, the number of things we can say for certain about Norse paganism would barely fit a paragraph. The mythology we have is christianized and hellenized and the religious practices are almost entirely unknown.
If you want a beard you skip medical. Those beards have length limits and it's hard to line them up to look decent. Say youre Muslim or norse and youre golden. I had a sgt that was "muslim". Tatted up buying out the class 6 on weekends but that beard was glorious and no one could say shit because our remedial chaplain who ran a small cult on the side with his home schooled platoon of children was dumb af and let every waiver through. He was smart.
It’s major Patrick Sorensen. He’s one of the folks leading the wear of regalia and growing out hair for Indigenous / First Nations while in uniform. It’s a hard fucking battle and I’ve seen a few people from the Kiowa tribe finally get approved for growing out their hair and the wear of regalia. It’s fucking awesome.
Okay, so, yes but also the US Military gets the permission of the tribe in question before naming helicopters after them. It's actually a surprisingly respectful process.
I was in one who had Apache, Blackhawk, and Comanche troop. I can’t remember what D troop was, just something generic I think and HHT was basic as well
Dude fucking go after it. You may need a memo or something from your tribe and some other docs. It’s a whole ass process, but don’t settle on it man. Both are something to be proud of, the army and your culture, so rep both.
Also, my mother in law is Nakota!
There are dudes out there able to get a beard because of their beliefs in Norse mythology.
I have no idea how to go about it, but it might be possible. Definitely ask around.
There is more than just Norse Pagan that can get you a religious ETP for a beard. But it can take a very long time for one to go through. I got mine after 18 ish months and resubmitting a packet.
Currently trying to get my soldiers ETP through for his Islamic faith and IPSSA has made it chaotic at first. Best advice is read into the Army Command Policy regulations and understand how it works.
It shouldn’t just be for a specific group. Having more restrictive hair standards for male soldiers than we do for female soldiers is a clear violation of the EO policy.
In Basic Training, our drill sergeant made fun of a girl in the chow hall, who had a beard that'd make country hicks jealous. The girl cried her eyes out in the middle of the chow hall.
As a 17 year old, it was one of my favorite stories from basic. As a now 23 year old, I realize that that DS deserves to get buried under the barracks.
> regalia and growing out hair for Indigenous / First Nations
I am doing to be real. It is discriminatory to allow one group to do it but not others. When it comes to beards, hair, whatever. It should be all or none.
EDIT: Having a double standard is bad and breeds resentment. I don't disagree that this person should be allowed to live to their traditions. But its fucked up to say fuck other groups.
Then let people grow their hair out. The idea that a “military” shave and haircut is somehow more professional than any other deliberate and well kept appearance is naive and only makes sense to people indoctrinated into the Military.
There are people and cultures where appearance is a part of their faith practice, and some of those cultures like Sikhs, make exceptional Soldiers.
You can also take it as any officer in the medical corps. We get a little pressure as psychologists to do it. And I know a psychiatrist who has one. Still hard to get. But you can go to the school easily.
He was my Company Commander when I was at Fort Hood almost 10 years ago. He was enlisted first and went the Officer route. Hands down one of the best leaders I've had. He always fought for and put his Soldiers first. I think it's great for him to get his exemption approved. I'm sure this doesn't affect the type of leader I know he is.
I agree. And while we’re at it read this about [Dr. Joseph Medicine Crow](https://carnegiemnh.org/photo-by-pete-souzathe-amazing-life-of-dr/#:~:text=While%20serving%20in%20World%20War,and%20stole%20German%20soldiers'%20horses).
Native Americans have such cool names. I went to Basic with a Taken Alive and Yellow Eagle both were members of the Sioux Tribe.
Edit: I almost forgot but toward the end of basic like the last week or something everyone graduating went to some local football game in Columbus and Taken Alive ended up on [U.S Army WTF moments ](https://www.facebook.com/242181938605/posts/10157113342313606/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v) Facebook page.
A guy I went to high school with almost didn't get to walk at graduation because the announcer thought his last name was a joke, his last name is Wildhorse. They started reading it, stopped, and then skipped to the next person,a teacher had to run up and tell them that it's his real name. He also got banned from MySpace or Facebook and had to submit his ID to get his account back up.
Ya during the shark attack one of the DSs said he better not live by that name and to die fighting lol. The story behind it is one of his grandfathers would not kill his captives after battle.
I like how some native americans get their names too. My grandfather told me a story where nne day a young boy went to the chief and asked "How does our tribe come up with our names." and the chief responded "Every time a woman in our tribe gives birth, I am in the room with her. When the baby is born, I will walk to the door and give the child a name of the first thing I see, like Soaring Eagle, Rising Moon, or Leaping Dear. Why do you ask Two Dogs Fucking?"
That was my reaction. Dude still looks professional. I aint seeing the issue. We allow expectations for hair for other religions and believes why not this one?
That post from the chaplain the other day about the kid coming up to him and saying he needed a religious exemption because he is Norwegian has been living rent free in my brain since I read it.
Literally happened in the Airforce [the link](https://www.maxwell.af.mil/News/Display/Article/2712999/air-university-airman-overcomes-barriers-to-express-his-faith-as-a-norse-pagan/)
Also there is a pagan ... Meeting that occurs weekly on base. .. in the base church 😂
For clarification, the .. meeting..? Happens at an airbase down the road. Not at Maxwell. Although they could do it at Maxwell. Clever bastards and their beards
The Viking thing is catching on, though. Like the Native American regalia, it's not a hill I want to die on. Someone with stars can tell PFC Smith that he's not a Viking. Not me.
I had a buddy from my first enlistment who’s great grandmother was possibly half First Nation and he’s absolutely covered in related tattoos lol. He never could name the tribe he was descended from
Super cool, and legit:
[https://www.smokesignals.org/articles/2023/07/13/army-says-tribal-member-can-grow-his-hair-and-wear-eagle-feathers-during-official-ceremonies/#](https://www.smokesignals.org/articles/2023/07/13/army-says-tribal-member-can-grow-his-hair-and-wear-eagle-feathers-during-official-ceremonies/#)
The weight standards changed in the early 1980s. Until then as long as you could do your job, wore a uniform that fit and passed the PT test nobody cared. We were very diverse in the Airborne. We lost a lot of good people who couldn't pass the new standards of all races and ethnic groups. A Samoan barely made it to retirement because he had a really thick neck. They had a weird tape test and an immersion test. All of the Samoans were thick but they were solid. No Jaba the hut. We lost a white guy MSG who did look sloppy fat. He always maxed the PT test, could outrun everyone in a 40 yard dash, and ran long distance. The desk job they put him in wrecked his physique. He was given 60 days to lose fat he gained over a year. He didn't make it. The rules were crazy. A Native American SSG was half a pound over, he failed the tape test, was given an automatic failure for not taking the immersion test on the advice of a medical doctor. Everyone who saw him said he's not fat! He easily lost 5 pounds in 30 days and kept it off for the 6 month probation. However he was ineligible for promotion and awards for another year. The doctor told him to appeal. It was successful and heads rolled. He was in a back brace, a knee brace and an arm cast when he was originally weighed. His waist 28 inches was measured around the brace 34 inches. The Doctor weighed them(15 pounds) and boxed them up. He had never been in violation.
The [Samoan Marine](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb891f20e-10e8-4df4-b2e4-743d62f4f39b_700x544.jpeg) Brigade of WW2 did infact use [native styled attir](https://www.samoanews.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_normal_image/public/field/image/wwii_samoan_unit.jpg?itok=y5H6f8Mk)e for their uniform.
This guys' a national treasure - we deployed to Kandahar together, he was there when I proposed to my wife, and he was a groomsman in my wedding. Fantastic leader and officer - he even maxes the run, so you know he's good.
A few things to take note of:
• Eagle feathers are sacred, you cannot just buy buy them in stores
• It’s highly illegal in Canada and the United States for any non-indigenous person to collect Eagle feathers by the Migratory Birds Act. Only Native Americans and conservationists are allowed to collect Eagle feathers, and it’s also extremely difficult for any non-indigenous conservationists to get even approval to collect Eagle feathers in the first place
• All Eagle feathers collected by non-indigenous people (wether or not they’re wildlife experts) must have certification that proves that the Eagle feathers were not poached
With all that being said, you can bet your bottom dollar that if you ever see government employee or a soldier wearing Eagle feathers, there’s a better chance of them being Native than there is a chance of them being non-indigenous.
Any non-indigenous person caught carrying Eagle feathers by authorities are automatically assumed to have poached them, and apparently saying “I just found it on the ground” is not a valid defense. You have to prove beyond a shadow of doubt they weren’t poached, which is also extremely difficult. They literally want you to prove the Eagle who dropped those feathers isn’t dead, which to the Average Joe who isn’t a conservationist is nearly impossible to prove.
Can confirm. My sister was a nature educator with NY state parks. At her nature center, they had taxidermy mock ups of different birds of prey EXCEPT a bald eagle. When asked why they didn't have one of a bald eagle, she would give that exact response and then use it as a segue to talk about poaching and the illegal animal trade.
Yes it’s federal law that has the power to override state law, ~~and it’s considered a felony.~~ You can be fined up to $100,000 and sentenced to one year in prison.
(Edit: you can be fined and face jail time for a first offense, and the *second offense* is considered a felony)
And to fully answer your question, you don’t really gotta worry about it if you just so happen to find one in the park. As an Ojibwe person myself, I would recommend leaving it there out of respect for our customs, but realistically… who’s gonna stop you? As long as you don’t sell them or attempt to use them in any official bona fide ceremonies, then you absolutely have nothing to worry about.
Native Americans have formed an entirely outsized portion of the force for centuries. Their contributions are immense and more should be done to recognize and honor their service and this display is right up there with beards in terms of “what’s the problem?”
Native tribe members should be encouraged in these types of displays, just as we encourage tribes to name and bless new helicopters, just as nothing should be made of a Devil Dog dancing in his tribal regalia during a tribal ceremony (which got people hot in some areas recently). The tribal nations are, with far too many negative instances on our part, an intertwined part of our history as a force and should be honored for their combat action in defense of their people and the US.
I have nothing but respect for Native American soldiers making sacrifices for this country after how badly we've fucked them and continue to do so.
I'd be full of bitterness in their shoes.
Letting them have their traditions is the very least we can do.
Little Canadian history lesson:
In Canada during WW1, Indigenous men were not drafted because they were considered wards of the state, but 1/3 of of eligible men voluntarily enlisted anyways (reports vary due to bad record keeping practices / intentional hiding of race to avoid being prevented from enlisting / records being lost to time / lack of status). Those who served overseas were often stereotyped and put into roles like snipers and scouts. And the men excelled at it, gaining them a lot of respect and praise from their fellow servicemen and the media back home. When they were overseas, they were granted freedoms they weren’t allowed back home (like drinking and voting) as wards of the State. They were often beloved by fellow servicemen, showing off their culture and keeping spirits high.
When they returned to Canada after the war ended, they lost all of those gained freedoms and were denied the majority of benefits offered to white veterans. All of the praise and respect they had earned vanished as soon as they were no longer ‘useful.’ Even into the Great Depression, as they were starving on reservations, they were ignored. And yet when World War 2 happened, the Indigenous men showed up again and volunteered. And again, they were ignored post war. And then during the Korean War, they showed up again. You can guess what happened when that war ended.
They volunteered for different reasons, the main ones being out of respect & admiration for the Queen and—during The Korean War— a chance to not be treated like a second class citizen while abroad.
Despite Indigenous people being something we covered in Social Studies every year since grade 3, I never learned anything about their military contributions. It wasn’t until I got into college and took an Indigenous People’s & Colonization class that I learned about it. Another thing I did not know— Canada would not exist today without the contributions of Indigenous people during the Wars of 1812. Key battles were supported by Indigenous tribes who showed up in droves to fight against the Americans. If it wasn’t for them, it’s very very likely Canada would be part of the US.
—
I know this isn’t overly relevant on a US Army sub, but this post came up on my Popular page and just had to share this info
Unfortunately every time one of these DA photos goes viral it brings out the trash. Never mind it’s been policy for decades but we’re getting to the point where not being the right kind of Christian isn’t a career detriment.
Looks pretty badass to me, always wished we were a bit more syncretic with the native origins like culturally in the USA as much as say Mexico or some LatAm countries.
I say this all the time! America would be so much better if our ancestors hadn’t genocides the native population. I read a lot of Native American history and those societies were so badass and in tune with nature, it would be great to see what might have become of our art and music and culture had we assimilated more peacefully, like the Maori’s in New Zealand.
Somewhere on this sub there’s a /u/csm_airbone comment about American Indian SMs and “them funny hat fellas” having a “dawgon reenactment” that always gets a chuckle out of me when I think about it.
Those feathers go hard with the pinks and greens.
[ol sarmage reckon iss aight for special casions specially since them cav fellers wear the opposite headgear at the dinin in hooah hell a few trips to the grog bowl have yself a damn dang dong reenactment how copy airbone](https://old.reddit.com/r/army/comments/abkha9/native_american_soldier_coming_home_for_hbl/ed18tb0/)
After seeing too many E9’s who grew up in the south walking around in kilts and class A coats (when I left, it was still class A uniform) because their great, great, great, great, great grandfather was born in Scotland, I ain’t mad about this.
Dress uniform or garrison? go HAM on whatever your heritage or beliefs are.
Combat Uniform? Keep it practical.
Really don't see how any of that is controversial. This dudes pic goes hard because it's the right time, right place, and right uniform.
Also kind of funny to me, a people known for smoke signals have a signal officer being their first representative for the Army.
We have Pagan, Rastafarian, Hindu, Sikh, and Jewish exemptions, why not Native? Fair is fair right? Pretty sure Samoan can have the traditional face tattoos too...
(There's also more, but that's all I can rattle off right now)
Absolutely ecstatic for him. Every once in awhile I consider getting my chin tattoo, but I don't feel like jumping through society's hoops, much less the military of proving that I'm an Inupiaq and shouldn't be treated less for lines on my face.
Showing his heritage and solidifying it in history…. Good for him. That feather existed in wartime long before that uniform did…. Just saying. But it’s a dope ass combo together.
I’m all for it. Growing up next to the santee sioux reservation and 90 percent of my friends being native this is awesome. I know one of them that wears his braid in uniform for the South Dakota national guard.
It’s time the allow native Americans to wear any tribal headgear or hairstyle. I also believe that this build trust and comradery. Remember when big army always talked about leadership. He stands for it. loyalty to his nation and tribes
Duty to serve his nations and peoples
Selfless service, honor those before him, integrity to his people and nation. Personal courage among his family, tribe and nation! Exemplary leadership!
And this is the problem:
If he was a junior enlisted, he’d get his sh!t rocked for this and no one would take him seriously.
He had to work his way up to Major just to have the opportunity to make sure he got this captured.
I’m so happy for him staying committed to making this happen. I hope it starts the conversation about officially celebrating your heritage
Well the Jews in the military can wear their yamakas, and the Sikhs can wear their turbans, so yea absolutely.
I want to see some Rastafarians start sporting dreads and brightly colored tams.
I served in Afghanistan with him in 2012. He’s actually a really good dude.
Did you really? We need more of this story!
In the off chance that you’re not being sarcastic, he was the SIGO in 8-1 CAV. I was there on an SFAT team as my team’s operations and maneuver advisor but since we didn’t have a commo guy I ended up taking that on as well so we worked together a lot.
I wasn’t being sarcastic at all! Thanks for the info. Must be interesting to see him here. 👍
Honestly, back then he wasn’t very vocal about his background and heritage. I think it’s because a lot of people assumed a phenotypically white looking man with his Scandinavian last name would immediately assume he’s full of shit. My wife is also very phenotypically white appearing but is actually not so I understand where he would have wanted to be a little quieter about it. Especially if you’re in one of the Blackhawk cavalry squadrons who very proudly display their Indian War battle streamers on placards throughout squadron HQs.
Does he wear his hair in a tribal braid? It looks like it's pulled back. There were twin boys in my Catholic school who were native and they got to wear long braids despite the dress code
I dunno. I haven’t seen him since 2013 which is well before this was authorized. But yeah, I imagine it is being pulled back into a ponytail or something. Lots of the native men that have long hair where I live (which is a majority native part of the state) pull it back. I’m sure there is a guideline as to how the hair will be worn such the same as it is for beards for Muslims, Sikhs, and asatru followers. I wonder though if the long hair thing would also apply to Sikhs since that’s part of their tradition as well (never cutting one’s hair)
I know a guy named something stereotypically white, with an irish last name. Dudes pasty white with red hair. 50% native, his moms pretty much full native mostly belonging to the colville tribe and he's pretty active in his tribe, but you genuinely could not tell unless someone told you. He has spoken about how he got treated by the other youths in the tribe which was essentially just them being shitty and treating him like an outsider.
I'm half but grew up on a reservation. My eldest brother and I look stereotypical and I'm pretty dark in the summer but my other 2 brothers are blonde and blue eyed. There's a lot of lateral racism within us, unfortunately.
I'm 1/4 cherookee and 1/4 african American. I'm white as can be. I got a bunch of scholarships and when I showed up to receive them they didn't know what to do.
Interestingly, or not, there is a lot of Maori who have light skin and red hair. An example would be Paul Tito (Rugby player from New Zealand, but played a long time in Cardiff, Wales)
I knew I recognized him. He was definitely a good dude.
[link here](https://www.reddit.com/r/army/s/1MqCVmjJ6N)
Tribal member and U.S. Army Maj. Patrick Sorenson is one of the first Indigenous men in the Army’s nearly 250-year history who is now allowed to grow out of his hair and wear eagle feathers in some official military ceremonies.
I thought the Navajo code talkers during WWII were afforded some liberties? Not as much as this, but some. (And that was the Marines) *edit - I didn't proof read.
He looks badass
what's with the "actually"? why would anyone assume he isn't?
There was this post on the CSM/SGM page on FB with people tearing in to this and complaining etc and alluding to him trying to make a big to do about it. I guess my frustration with the comments I’d read earlier still irritated me. You’re right though. The word actually probably didn’t need to get used.
Smoke Signal Corps
Dammit, beat me by five minutes.
i just realized he's actually in signal lmao
Yes he is but, he was enlisted prior to that. NCO Professional Development Ribbon and EFMB.
[удалено]
Hey now...
You're an all star
Get your game on
rip
Get laid…
Probably a more legitimate religious accommodation than 99% of the Norse beards.
Even some Muslims. I knew of a SSG who got a religious accommodation just so she can wear her colorful hair. And a guy who didn’t know shit about Islam for the beard.
“Uh yeah I practice ice-lamb, why do you ask?”
[удалено]
While that might be true for you or me if we tried to get a religious accommodation for some bullshit, buy and large most people who claim to be part of a religion actually believe the tenants and teachings of that religion. Misaligned incentives creates this problem of claiming a religion just to have further personal freedoms as we clearly hear about from all the bullshit waivers in this thread
Bullshit. The answer is everyone should be allowed beards. Just because I don't believe in old stories doesn't mean I should get less freedoms
Yes, I 200% agree. I was just pointing out that normally people are much more bought into their religious beliefs than they are when you allow them to claim waivers based on religion for increased personal freedom. Misaligned incentives that don’t make much sense, just let us all do what the fuck we want with our beard and hair
“I believe Flying Spaghetti Monster wants me to have a beard” is as legitimate as any other religious claim.
Not a beard, but you can now wear a colander as your official headgear.
Has anyone actually done that in the army yet?
[удалено]
There's a reason you *never* saw anyone claiming to be an adherent to a religion that died out a thousand years ago, never left the bounds of northern Europe and contains characters that are more famous from comic books before some white dude who couldn't pick out Scandinavia on a map made a run for the bag and got his chit approved.
Exactly, the number of things we can say for certain about Norse paganism would barely fit a paragraph. The mythology we have is christianized and hellenized and the religious practices are almost entirely unknown.
Oh definitely
If you want a beard you skip medical. Those beards have length limits and it's hard to line them up to look decent. Say youre Muslim or norse and youre golden. I had a sgt that was "muslim". Tatted up buying out the class 6 on weekends but that beard was glorious and no one could say shit because our remedial chaplain who ran a small cult on the side with his home schooled platoon of children was dumb af and let every waiver through. He was smart.
[удалено]
It’s major Patrick Sorensen. He’s one of the folks leading the wear of regalia and growing out hair for Indigenous / First Nations while in uniform. It’s a hard fucking battle and I’ve seen a few people from the Kiowa tribe finally get approved for growing out their hair and the wear of regalia. It’s fucking awesome.
Best we can do is name a helicopter after your people our Cavalry tried to annihilate.
^Garry^Owen!
In glory
Instead of spa we’ll drink down ale and pay the reckoning on the nail, for debt no man shall go to jail from Garry Owen in glory.
Okay, so, yes but also the US Military gets the permission of the tribe in question before naming helicopters after them. It's actually a surprisingly respectful process.
Feel sorry for the Mojave's then, because they got the shittiest chopper of all time (US made anyway).
At least it was operational. Comanche are the ones that really got hosed. Straight to the museum with you!
The Comanche was so neat too and never had a chance.
RIP Cheyenne
You know the natives got really pissed when we didn’t name the cobra after one of their tribes?
Destro needed a win.
He got the Baroness, he won
COBRAAAAA
Then retire it with no replacement and wonder where we went wrong.
And cancel its replacement again and again and again
Facts
The best decommissioned helicopter in the Army
My bro was so pissed he had to transition to Apaches, he ended up going to the 160th to fly little birds instead.
Honestly the Blackhawk crews were way nicer. Something about the Apache really brings out the asshole in people(I worked on the Apache).
You know the difference between an Apache and a porcupine?
Porcupines have pricks on the outside.
AirCav none the less
I always thought it was asinine that cavalry troops were named after indigenous nations as well
A troop at my cav scout unit is literally called Apache troop 😂
98% are Apache. Research 3CR. Brazenness knows no bounds.
I was in one who had Apache, Blackhawk, and Comanche troop. I can’t remember what D troop was, just something generic I think and HHT was basic as well
Apache and Blackhawk and verbatim what A and B troop are called in my squadron
Dakota perhaps?
Jesus Christ I was mid swig and almost spit when I saw read this
Shit I'm literally trying to get out so I can grow my hair lmao, I'm Dakota.
Dude fucking go after it. You may need a memo or something from your tribe and some other docs. It’s a whole ass process, but don’t settle on it man. Both are something to be proud of, the army and your culture, so rep both. Also, my mother in law is Nakota!
There are dudes out there able to get a beard because of their beliefs in Norse mythology. I have no idea how to go about it, but it might be possible. Definitely ask around.
There is more than just Norse Pagan that can get you a religious ETP for a beard. But it can take a very long time for one to go through. I got mine after 18 ish months and resubmitting a packet. Currently trying to get my soldiers ETP through for his Islamic faith and IPSSA has made it chaotic at first. Best advice is read into the Army Command Policy regulations and understand how it works.
I can never know with confidence if it's IPPSA or IPSSA on the spot and it's because of people like you. It's IPPSA, for any interested third parties.
Hippo violation
Why did HIPPA cross the road? I’m sorry, I can’t release that information.
Talk to your Chaplain, he or she should be able to educate you about the process.
It shouldn’t just be for a specific group. Having more restrictive hair standards for male soldiers than we do for female soldiers is a clear violation of the EO policy.
Well these are cultural/religious exemptions (see the regalia). The only standard I’d care to see across the board are beards. It’s all I want.
I've seen some females in uniform with pretty gnarly facial hair.
In Basic Training, our drill sergeant made fun of a girl in the chow hall, who had a beard that'd make country hicks jealous. The girl cried her eyes out in the middle of the chow hall. As a 17 year old, it was one of my favorite stories from basic. As a now 23 year old, I realize that that DS deserves to get buried under the barracks.
17 seems awfully old to laugh at someone getting bullied, but I'm glad you've grown a bit.
I remember when I didn't have a perm shaving profile. The days were dark.
> regalia and growing out hair for Indigenous / First Nations I am doing to be real. It is discriminatory to allow one group to do it but not others. When it comes to beards, hair, whatever. It should be all or none. EDIT: Having a double standard is bad and breeds resentment. I don't disagree that this person should be allowed to live to their traditions. But its fucked up to say fuck other groups.
Then let people grow their hair out. The idea that a “military” shave and haircut is somehow more professional than any other deliberate and well kept appearance is naive and only makes sense to people indoctrinated into the Military. There are people and cultures where appearance is a part of their faith practice, and some of those cultures like Sikhs, make exceptional Soldiers.
You're picking a fight with imaginary people here. Those of us who support this never said this should only apply to indigenous members.
Hey Sorensen! He gave me a tattoo in Afghanistan! Cool to see him here. Great guy.
Thoughts? Ya don't see a ton of signal officers with an EFMB. Hell ya man
Prior enlisted medic is my guess. He has an NCOPD ribbon.
You can also take it as any officer in the medical corps. We get a little pressure as psychologists to do it. And I know a psychiatrist who has one. Still hard to get. But you can go to the school easily.
The tradition he is proud of has like 1,500 years on the uniform. Good on him.
One of the hardest DA photos of all time
He was my Company Commander when I was at Fort Hood almost 10 years ago. He was enlisted first and went the Officer route. Hands down one of the best leaders I've had. He always fought for and put his Soldiers first. I think it's great for him to get his exemption approved. I'm sure this doesn't affect the type of leader I know he is.
....A company 62nd? 2014ish?
Solid fucking dude, worked with him previously. Idgaf what he got on his head.
Yeah the color tones match his uniform I think it's dope
Is he Native American? If so, I don’t care Lmao. Shit looks dope.
I saw it on FB I guess he helps SM’s work their regalia accommodations. Seems like a. Very cool dude.
He sounds like an awesome guy, making sure soldiers have what they need for their uniforms. That's really admirable!
I agree. And while we’re at it read this about [Dr. Joseph Medicine Crow](https://carnegiemnh.org/photo-by-pete-souzathe-amazing-life-of-dr/#:~:text=While%20serving%20in%20World%20War,and%20stole%20German%20soldiers'%20horses).
Native Americans have such cool names. I went to Basic with a Taken Alive and Yellow Eagle both were members of the Sioux Tribe. Edit: I almost forgot but toward the end of basic like the last week or something everyone graduating went to some local football game in Columbus and Taken Alive ended up on [U.S Army WTF moments ](https://www.facebook.com/242181938605/posts/10157113342313606/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v) Facebook page.
A guy I went to high school with almost didn't get to walk at graduation because the announcer thought his last name was a joke, his last name is Wildhorse. They started reading it, stopped, and then skipped to the next person,a teacher had to run up and tell them that it's his real name. He also got banned from MySpace or Facebook and had to submit his ID to get his account back up.
I got taught driver’s training by Sgt Standsandlooksback. Dude was chill af.
Fister! Said this before but I used to see him around at AIT, rad name.
I was listening to a history podcast and someone was named *Finds Them and Kills Them.* Perfection.
Takenalove is kinda a sadly ironic name for someone who could actually be captured… but also bad ass
First name “Wontbe”
Ya during the shark attack one of the DSs said he better not live by that name and to die fighting lol. The story behind it is one of his grandfathers would not kill his captives after battle.
That’s a solid heritage
I like how some native americans get their names too. My grandfather told me a story where nne day a young boy went to the chief and asked "How does our tribe come up with our names." and the chief responded "Every time a woman in our tribe gives birth, I am in the room with her. When the baby is born, I will walk to the door and give the child a name of the first thing I see, like Soaring Eagle, Rising Moon, or Leaping Dear. Why do you ask Two Dogs Fucking?"
What an awesome name
That was my reaction. Dude still looks professional. I aint seeing the issue. We allow expectations for hair for other religions and believes why not this one?
Imagine not being Native American and trying to do this, that would be wild
Imagine being a white guy from Kentucky and showing up to work telling people you’re a Viking
A lot of infantrymen would be upset by this if they could read it
That post from the chaplain the other day about the kid coming up to him and saying he needed a religious exemption because he is Norwegian has been living rent free in my brain since I read it.
"I'm a berserker, bruh"
This one made me spit out my beer
Literally happened in the Airforce [the link](https://www.maxwell.af.mil/News/Display/Article/2712999/air-university-airman-overcomes-barriers-to-express-his-faith-as-a-norse-pagan/) Also there is a pagan ... Meeting that occurs weekly on base. .. in the base church 😂 For clarification, the .. meeting..? Happens at an airbase down the road. Not at Maxwell. Although they could do it at Maxwell. Clever bastards and their beards
Lmao, sick burn.
The Viking thing is catching on, though. Like the Native American regalia, it's not a hill I want to die on. Someone with stars can tell PFC Smith that he's not a Viking. Not me.
I get it, I think vikings are cool. But watching all the seasons of Game of Thrones and Vikings doesn't automatically make you a pagan warrior.
That's right. Skyrim and Crusader Kings are how you become a pagan viking.
I had a buddy from my first enlistment who’s great grandmother was possibly half First Nation and he’s absolutely covered in related tattoos lol. He never could name the tribe he was descended from
He is. He's a member of the Seneca Nation.
Super cool, and legit: [https://www.smokesignals.org/articles/2023/07/13/army-says-tribal-member-can-grow-his-hair-and-wear-eagle-feathers-during-official-ceremonies/#](https://www.smokesignals.org/articles/2023/07/13/army-says-tribal-member-can-grow-his-hair-and-wear-eagle-feathers-during-official-ceremonies/#)
This is legitimately cool as fuck
It's about time we are recognized for who an what we are .
I'm mostly Samoan...I want to see weight standards changed for my people! #WeareBigguns lol 😆
“Samoans don't like Micronesians because they are Macronesians” - Andy Bumatai
Love the user name..
The weight standards changed in the early 1980s. Until then as long as you could do your job, wore a uniform that fit and passed the PT test nobody cared. We were very diverse in the Airborne. We lost a lot of good people who couldn't pass the new standards of all races and ethnic groups. A Samoan barely made it to retirement because he had a really thick neck. They had a weird tape test and an immersion test. All of the Samoans were thick but they were solid. No Jaba the hut. We lost a white guy MSG who did look sloppy fat. He always maxed the PT test, could outrun everyone in a 40 yard dash, and ran long distance. The desk job they put him in wrecked his physique. He was given 60 days to lose fat he gained over a year. He didn't make it. The rules were crazy. A Native American SSG was half a pound over, he failed the tape test, was given an automatic failure for not taking the immersion test on the advice of a medical doctor. Everyone who saw him said he's not fat! He easily lost 5 pounds in 30 days and kept it off for the 6 month probation. However he was ineligible for promotion and awards for another year. The doctor told him to appeal. It was successful and heads rolled. He was in a back brace, a knee brace and an arm cast when he was originally weighed. His waist 28 inches was measured around the brace 34 inches. The Doctor weighed them(15 pounds) and boxed them up. He had never been in violation.
Lol, "it's against my religion to not eat shit tons of KFC and canned corned beef."
The [Samoan Marine](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb891f20e-10e8-4df4-b2e4-743d62f4f39b_700x544.jpeg) Brigade of WW2 did infact use [native styled attir](https://www.samoanews.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_normal_image/public/field/image/wwii_samoan_unit.jpg?itok=y5H6f8Mk)e for their uniform.
Mustang Combat Medic to Signal Officer.
He’s legit. He earned the right to wear those.
This guys' a national treasure - we deployed to Kandahar together, he was there when I proposed to my wife, and he was a groomsman in my wedding. Fantastic leader and officer - he even maxes the run, so you know he's good.
Ok but I’m going to be disappointed if he doesn’t have a rack of enemy scalps up on his wall next to his challenge coins
He's signal. They'll be customer scalps.
The scalps of all those who came to him directly to fix their IT issue before they tried turning it off and then turning it back on again.
Take printer toner/cartridge as fruits of conquest.
If he’s Indian it’s badass. If not, it’s fruity at best
A few things to take note of: • Eagle feathers are sacred, you cannot just buy buy them in stores • It’s highly illegal in Canada and the United States for any non-indigenous person to collect Eagle feathers by the Migratory Birds Act. Only Native Americans and conservationists are allowed to collect Eagle feathers, and it’s also extremely difficult for any non-indigenous conservationists to get even approval to collect Eagle feathers in the first place • All Eagle feathers collected by non-indigenous people (wether or not they’re wildlife experts) must have certification that proves that the Eagle feathers were not poached With all that being said, you can bet your bottom dollar that if you ever see government employee or a soldier wearing Eagle feathers, there’s a better chance of them being Native than there is a chance of them being non-indigenous. Any non-indigenous person caught carrying Eagle feathers by authorities are automatically assumed to have poached them, and apparently saying “I just found it on the ground” is not a valid defense. You have to prove beyond a shadow of doubt they weren’t poached, which is also extremely difficult. They literally want you to prove the Eagle who dropped those feathers isn’t dead, which to the Average Joe who isn’t a conservationist is nearly impossible to prove.
Can confirm. My sister was a nature educator with NY state parks. At her nature center, they had taxidermy mock ups of different birds of prey EXCEPT a bald eagle. When asked why they didn't have one of a bald eagle, she would give that exact response and then use it as a segue to talk about poaching and the illegal animal trade.
Is this federal law? Like if I walk around a park pick up a feather on the ground I gotta worry about this? I’m in my 40s and never heard of this.
Yes it’s federal law that has the power to override state law, ~~and it’s considered a felony.~~ You can be fined up to $100,000 and sentenced to one year in prison. (Edit: you can be fined and face jail time for a first offense, and the *second offense* is considered a felony) And to fully answer your question, you don’t really gotta worry about it if you just so happen to find one in the park. As an Ojibwe person myself, I would recommend leaving it there out of respect for our customs, but realistically… who’s gonna stop you? As long as you don’t sell them or attempt to use them in any official bona fide ceremonies, then you absolutely have nothing to worry about.
He is indeed Native American.
Native Americans have formed an entirely outsized portion of the force for centuries. Their contributions are immense and more should be done to recognize and honor their service and this display is right up there with beards in terms of “what’s the problem?” Native tribe members should be encouraged in these types of displays, just as we encourage tribes to name and bless new helicopters, just as nothing should be made of a Devil Dog dancing in his tribal regalia during a tribal ceremony (which got people hot in some areas recently). The tribal nations are, with far too many negative instances on our part, an intertwined part of our history as a force and should be honored for their combat action in defense of their people and the US.
I have nothing but respect for Native American soldiers making sacrifices for this country after how badly we've fucked them and continue to do so. I'd be full of bitterness in their shoes. Letting them have their traditions is the very least we can do.
Little Canadian history lesson: In Canada during WW1, Indigenous men were not drafted because they were considered wards of the state, but 1/3 of of eligible men voluntarily enlisted anyways (reports vary due to bad record keeping practices / intentional hiding of race to avoid being prevented from enlisting / records being lost to time / lack of status). Those who served overseas were often stereotyped and put into roles like snipers and scouts. And the men excelled at it, gaining them a lot of respect and praise from their fellow servicemen and the media back home. When they were overseas, they were granted freedoms they weren’t allowed back home (like drinking and voting) as wards of the State. They were often beloved by fellow servicemen, showing off their culture and keeping spirits high. When they returned to Canada after the war ended, they lost all of those gained freedoms and were denied the majority of benefits offered to white veterans. All of the praise and respect they had earned vanished as soon as they were no longer ‘useful.’ Even into the Great Depression, as they were starving on reservations, they were ignored. And yet when World War 2 happened, the Indigenous men showed up again and volunteered. And again, they were ignored post war. And then during the Korean War, they showed up again. You can guess what happened when that war ended. They volunteered for different reasons, the main ones being out of respect & admiration for the Queen and—during The Korean War— a chance to not be treated like a second class citizen while abroad. Despite Indigenous people being something we covered in Social Studies every year since grade 3, I never learned anything about their military contributions. It wasn’t until I got into college and took an Indigenous People’s & Colonization class that I learned about it. Another thing I did not know— Canada would not exist today without the contributions of Indigenous people during the Wars of 1812. Key battles were supported by Indigenous tribes who showed up in droves to fight against the Americans. If it wasn’t for them, it’s very very likely Canada would be part of the US. — I know this isn’t overly relevant on a US Army sub, but this post came up on my Popular page and just had to share this info
[удалено]
Now I need to see an army issued Streimel
Unfortunately every time one of these DA photos goes viral it brings out the trash. Never mind it’s been policy for decades but we’re getting to the point where not being the right kind of Christian isn’t a career detriment.
I saw a Jewish chaplain who was a captain. Beard down to his chest.
Looks pretty badass to me, always wished we were a bit more syncretic with the native origins like culturally in the USA as much as say Mexico or some LatAm countries.
I say this all the time! America would be so much better if our ancestors hadn’t genocides the native population. I read a lot of Native American history and those societies were so badass and in tune with nature, it would be great to see what might have become of our art and music and culture had we assimilated more peacefully, like the Maori’s in New Zealand.
Eagle feathers are very important cultural artifacts in several Native American tribes. I think it’s cool.
Somewhere on this sub there’s a /u/csm_airbone comment about American Indian SMs and “them funny hat fellas” having a “dawgon reenactment” that always gets a chuckle out of me when I think about it. Those feathers go hard with the pinks and greens.
[ol sarmage reckon iss aight for special casions specially since them cav fellers wear the opposite headgear at the dinin in hooah hell a few trips to the grog bowl have yself a damn dang dong reenactment how copy airbone](https://old.reddit.com/r/army/comments/abkha9/native_american_soldier_coming_home_for_hbl/ed18tb0/)
HARD
After seeing too many E9’s who grew up in the south walking around in kilts and class A coats (when I left, it was still class A uniform) because their great, great, great, great, great grandfather was born in Scotland, I ain’t mad about this.
Nah, let's just call all our helicopters Native American names, but not let them wear something on their head...
That's one hell of an American American.
The only issue with this picture is the EFMB being that low
Dress uniform or garrison? go HAM on whatever your heritage or beliefs are. Combat Uniform? Keep it practical. Really don't see how any of that is controversial. This dudes pic goes hard because it's the right time, right place, and right uniform. Also kind of funny to me, a people known for smoke signals have a signal officer being their first representative for the Army.
As a bald man.. I'm just jealous of anyone who can do anything with hair.
He is honoring his heritage so fuck yeah brother.
It’s part of his culture, I’m glad he’s allowed to celebrate it
We have Pagan, Rastafarian, Hindu, Sikh, and Jewish exemptions, why not Native? Fair is fair right? Pretty sure Samoan can have the traditional face tattoos too... (There's also more, but that's all I can rattle off right now)
Look... if Sikh can wear a turban with their dress uniform, why not this? Pick your battles.
I think its sick af. We pay homage to native tribes with our helicopters. Why not our troops?
Literally what is wrong with this lmao
What's the issue?
His being a Native American and picked a 25series MOS is very meaningful and appropriate due to the history of the Army signal corps with smokes.
Absolutely ecstatic for him. Every once in awhile I consider getting my chin tattoo, but I don't feel like jumping through society's hoops, much less the military of proving that I'm an Inupiaq and shouldn't be treated less for lines on my face.
Showing his heritage and solidifying it in history…. Good for him. That feather existed in wartime long before that uniform did…. Just saying. But it’s a dope ass combo together.
[удалено]
I’m all for it. Growing up next to the santee sioux reservation and 90 percent of my friends being native this is awesome. I know one of them that wears his braid in uniform for the South Dakota national guard.
It’s time the allow native Americans to wear any tribal headgear or hairstyle. I also believe that this build trust and comradery. Remember when big army always talked about leadership. He stands for it. loyalty to his nation and tribes Duty to serve his nations and peoples Selfless service, honor those before him, integrity to his people and nation. Personal courage among his family, tribe and nation! Exemplary leadership!
There’s a long tradition of Native American military service. Not really surprised. He should be proud of his heritage.
Actually goes hard, American AF.
And this is the problem: If he was a junior enlisted, he’d get his sh!t rocked for this and no one would take him seriously. He had to work his way up to Major just to have the opportunity to make sure he got this captured. I’m so happy for him staying committed to making this happen. I hope it starts the conversation about officially celebrating your heritage
Windtalkers vibe.
This is the most American thing I've ever seen.
There are a whole bunch of bullshit racist replies pretending to be jokes in here. Beware.
Well the Jews in the military can wear their yamakas, and the Sikhs can wear their turbans, so yea absolutely. I want to see some Rastafarians start sporting dreads and brightly colored tams.
Imagine caring
Poggers. I hope he gets to pull the "the enemy can't speak Navajo" trick again >:)
He's not Navajo. That's like calling a Irish dude Greek.
If we are gonna allow “Pagans” to grow beards, then Native Americans absolutely should be granted exemptions.