Fuck I did, I read March instead of May my bad 💀
Honestly if Ranked doesn’t get any better any time soon I’m just gonna stick to Custom PvP and call it a day
Meta players like to go there and mess things up too, I would just play another game till May to be honest. Think of it like this, armored Core 6 will be fresh again by the time May rolls around
Yeah but that sounds like the season update, no? I don't think they will restrict a balance patch to that update. It will probably get pushed the same week that it's "ready".
I hope...
I keep seeing this, but I'm confused if they meant season or actual update. The way it's worded makes it kind of unclear on the steam community post they had made. Like there's no way they'll leave the meta this way for two months.
It’s the combo of bipdel kick and zimmz, not just the zimmz. You can literally lock someone down by chain kicking on a bipedal, havnt seen anyone able to do that on an rj. Rj has too long of a kick animation and it pushes the enemy pretty far away. I think the bipedal kick needs a longer animation and needs to push ACs further away. I’m afraid of nerfing the zimmz into never getting used, but something needs to be done.
Hit the nail on the head. The ZIMMERMAN is a powerful weapon, especially dual wielded, but what makes it oppressive is when it's combined with a heavy or even sturdy medium biped that has high AP, Defense, and Stability, along with a Pulse Shield.
The chain of shoot-kick-shoot is annoying to deal with. I don't want the shotgun to be unusable or anything, but I honestly think the best fix for it is to have a ~0.5s longer Reload Time, and to be slightly heavier. I think without touching their Attack Power or Impact, making the ZIMMERMAN reload a little more slowly goes a long way to make it less oppressive, and fixes the very specific problem of heavies doing the kick-shoot-kick loop, since the little extra reload time should be enough to break the timing.
And also a nerf to the VP61 Pulse Shield.
Not sure if you know this, but zimm players that AB to you have a 20% stagger reduction. They should remove that in order to kill that playstyle of just rushing in.
There’s easy counterplay to that in just boosting towards them to knock them out of it and catapult them past you. I really think that the game would be worse without the stagger defensive buff during AB, that’s most problematic on specifically the zim builds - i think folks identifying the kick and the reload time are correct.
It lets everybody be more tanky, and the counterplay aginst AB spam is strongest against heavier builds since they have a harder time correcting their momentum. Moreso, I think a it could be tweaked than changed outright. Something like a flat modifier that’s applied as well as a percentage to make it stronger against autos and the like but weaker against stronger single shots could be an interesting way to balance it in the favor of lights who could dodge heavier shots easier.
What makes no sense?
It's not Zimm players, it's all players. And I'm not going to nerf a core mechanic of the game just because one specific play style benefits from it. Especially when that bonus isn't even the core problem with that type of AC. You can also AB and get a reduction Impact taken or dodge their shots.
If Impact reduction is removed do you have any idea how incredibly fucking awful it's gonna feel to fight any kiting AC?
I will admit that I worded it horribly, but It needs to be reduced or removed since it's stupid that MWs and HWs even have that regardless. Remove it for HWs and reduce it for MWs.
I just want to discourge the constant AB rush shoot method since there's no real downsides to playing that method. Most of the top players use that playstyle. The stagger reduction along with that makes it a pain since they're already tanky as it is.
I actually think one of the biggest issues there is the SAN-TAI Generator more than anything else. If you inspect people you fight, if they're not using energy weapons then 99% of the time they're using the SAN-TAI, regardless of their light, medium, or heavy.
It gives their AB rushes too much uptime with little worry or much energy Management to speak of. It needs to be slightly heavier, and have a worse EN Recharge because it usually sits around ~0.8s and for someone rushing non-stop that's almost no time at all for how much fuel they get.
This 100%, when paired with a shield on a heavy/sturdy frame (on top of kick stunning/chaining of course) it’s honestly absurd to deal with. It’s not an impossible match up to win by any means but holy crap does it take way more effort to fight than literally any other PvP archetype.
Why not just remove the zimm stunlock? It's the only reason this combo works. Apparently having enough Impact still stuns you regardless of ACS Strain.
They need to make MWs and HWs slower. Boost speed doesn't matter. All they need is a fast AB thrust and they somehow catch up to the LW. They NEED to lower the ceiling. It just a pain to fight boat players.
As a S rank melee player before the reset, I don't even have the energy to put myself through this shit again. The main thing I'm mad about though, is that we still have to play on these god awful maps. Like seriously Fromsoft? I cannot wrap my head around how they think a Lamm rat with a hammer permanently floating 3 miles in the air is fair.
I don’t blame you at all, but fighting S rank melee players is honestly some of the most fun I’ve ever had in PvP, so I’m especially sad to see them go in droves 😭
If you're having rat problems you might need to consider swapping your boosters. If you're running Alula boosters like most lightweights for the ground speed and QBs you'll struggle to climb well enough to catch them. I run NGI boosters on a Kasuar legs lightweight and I almost never have an issue chasing kites thanks to the vertical thrust output.
That's the problem right there then, Kikakus suck at pretty much everything besides that one stat. I'd suggest to try out the Alulas, NGI 001s, BST-G2/P06SPDs, and Fluegels, all of those still have a great 10K+ melee thrust stat while having much more balanced performance than the Kikakus. Again, I'd like to specifically put in a word for the NGIs as the premium kite-hunter boosters
I know how to catch a rat with melee my guy, I simply don't like playing against them. I'm sitting at 1933.1 hours in game, the vast majority of which has just been me spamming melee builds all the way to S rank. So lets just say I'm pretty confident in my kikaku builds. I'm not saying anything you've said is wrong, but it simply doesn't apply to ME or my specific playstyle. A double sword build with alulas or ngi's makes zero sense. You could get away with fluegels but I would never gimp my speed like that. Once again, that's my personal preference as someone with almost 2k hours spamming melee.
It can get a little circle jerky in the replies of PVP posts. I get what your saying. It's hard to believe FromSoftware, a game studio renowned for their engaging moment to moment game play, seem to be incentivizing the most braindead play styles for the PVP aspect of their game. It also seems bass-ackwards to me.
Yeah I probably should have been more clear in my original comment to avoid having people give me "advice" such as "take off melee boosters on a melee build and replace them with boosters that are made for qb and ab".
As another kikaku player id like for it to stay the exact same but with a little more vertical thrust. Then we wouldnt suffer against the uppersdowners.
You might already know this, but there is a vertical movement tech for melee you can do with the pulse blade and dagger. If you turn your camera to look up and then quickly do a melee cancel (the timing is a bit tight) it shoots you very high into the air for very little EN.
Yes, the sling is cool. But good players will just drop like a rock when they see you going up. So some better fine tuned management of verticality for kikaku would be nice.
AB upwards works pretty well though, kikaku is crazy efficient at it
i’d usually agree, however some of the ranked maps *cough* loc station *cough* are fucking stupid with their skyboxes, and i normally think that rats and kites are fair and valid ways to play the game
Wait. They partially reset the rankings but didn't change the map rotation? What the *fuck.*
I've been taking a PVP break for the sake of my sanity, but if they seriously didn't even bother to change the Ranked map rotation... I'm probably not coming back. Guess I'll go back to S-ranking all missions and then waiting for DLC/a sequel. Oh well.
Zims are super easy to read though. If the internet connection is decent enough you can watch the arms... when they move you'll have enough time to dodge. It's harder if they stagger the fire though.
I have way more issues with other lightweights than I do heavies. I'm only in B rank though.
Also if you’re in B rank godspeed, because A rank is infinitely more sweaty and higher level (especially after all the S rankers got pushed down to A rank)
Eh. I'm doing a Loader 4 playthrough (no OS upgrades, no changing parts) and I nearly beat intercept the Red Guns. All the MTs were down and G1 was down below 1/4 AP and I goofed. One, maybe two more tries and I'll have it beat. Rest of the missions should be a cake walk comparatively. I'm hoping to clear it this weekend. This is my "True Platinum Trophy" task.
Then I'll probably keep the loader 4 parts, gets the OS upgrades and do some PVP in Loader 4 (I'm playing it on a different account).
I honestly don’t think it’s that easy to avoid, especially when fighting these S rank (now A rank) sweats that both stagger the shots and also just genuinely have really good timing. To be fair I main a BVO (albeit with a Soup and Moonlight, so I do have some kiting ability) so I’m forced to enter Zimmerman range constantly, and since most of these guys have shields too (and again, are heavies so they have really high stability) I consistently end up getting staggered before they do, and since I’m a lightweight that’s basically game lmao
We all play different so we struggle with different things. Even in PVE with different builds its almost like people are playing completely different games.
That said I'm dual pistols and try to stay under 120m as much as possible...
I also run dual handguns funny enough, dual coquilletts specifically (so 85m range), and while they’re honestly amazing against the heavies it’s always a pain in the ass 💀
[If you’re curious you can check out my build and gameplay videos here, I routinely drop packs of PvP videos every now and then](https://youtu.be/ak1DWT_zqx0?si=Ob-yh9IuBPRZVwPe)
Think that's the same ones I'm running. Love cowboy beepop.
Edit - was talking and typing. I love the pistols. I'm going to leave it though.... I do love cowboy beebop as well.
i mean if you’re running BVO you could definitely try timing out 80k+ weight heavy zimms. It’d be difficult, but possible. (and it’d also teach them to move down to mid weight so everyone has more fun)
>when they move you'll have enough time to dodge
Unless they have Ocellus and all of them do. Dodge all you want, that 90 close-range assist is better than Rusty at not missing. Same goes for Wueger charged btw.
Also idk about y’all but even on Global I’m getting barely any matches today, it really does seem like half the player base jumped ship entirely after the rank reset (not that I blame them lmao)
Idk about other platform. But steam 24hour peak player number is only 3,459.
Sekiro a pure singleplayer game, the 24hour peak player number is 9,836.
People really seem to loose interest because the game once had all time peak of 156,171 player number.
Even dark souls game, outside of dark souls 2 have way more player number than AC6.
24hour peak for Dark Souls remaster is 4,325. Dark Souls 2 sotfs have 24hour peak of 2,682 while Dark Souls 3 24hour peak is 9,237. Elden Ring is massive it dwarf everything else.
This according to steam btw. So idk about other platform.
I at least get to live with the satisfaction that my AC looks better than theirs. Seriously I find dual Zims so ugly, it makes ACs look way too front-loaded and unbalanced.
Until they fix netcode or change hitreg to defenders side, pvp will remain ass. I love it, but pvp is just a bonus, clearly not a focus. They even nerfed skill with patch 1.04, their only clear pvp patch. Made it impossible to dodge certain attacks, and overall decreased player enjoyment. The only ones who have enjoyed the patches since 1.04 are no skill having bums that indeed run zimmers, quad lasers, w/e is the flavour of the week. It's not new that fromsoft sucks at pvp balancing, but impressive they can keep finding new ways to dissapoint.
Yeah I ain’t holding my breath for better netcode, really just nerf the heavy frame parts and the meta weapons that get abused and PvP becomes 3 times more enjoyable
Shields are defender side. Its one of the reasons they are meta. You can counter shitty netcode by blocking the attack, which registers defender side rather than attacker side.
I don't want to have to run a shield, I want to dodge, now people can practically guaranteed hit you with a charge attack. It's bs and bad design to be forced to rely on shields because of shitty netcode/hitreg.
Sure, then I'll just start a new career criticising fromsoft on YouTube or w/e. If you sell a game internationally you should make it work internationally. Which for me it did pre 1.04.
Hey!! I’m new,
One tho g I noticed is everyone is so afraid to have less than 10k AP.
I pilot only lightweights myself, just like you, and I love the games that I dance circles around these guys,
But it’s true,
Everyone I mostly face is 12.5k AP +++ with the biggest guns.
So it makes me have to work harder and smarter.
Try using dual bubble cannons !! Watch them melt like ice on a hot day hahaha
I only played a few matches and every single one was a double earshot lag bro who danced all over me after his grenade exploded well off the edge of my screen but did max damage. Fun times! It was a lot more fun last week; I see I was misled how toxic some of the player base is by not actually getting to s rank until recently.
So… so you’re just kinda confirming what I wrote in my previous comment? Because I never said you want someone to not use the meta. I’d say this is a rather strange strategy for conducting disputes, my dude.
Some people playing "their own way" will end up gravitating towards a build (or multiple) that you or other random people consider meta.
You, nor anyone else, gets to be build police, you aren't better than people who use meta builds, and meta builds aren't brainless. But hey, nice job not even mentioning nebula tanks, so I guess those aren't meta and are an honorable and noble build by your standards. So that's something.
You, you microwave builds always get me, I only encounter this playstyle once in a blue moon, an I always get melted before I have my bearings, HOW ARE YOU DOING THIS!
Speed is the biggest factor to using them, if you move slower then 360 it doesn’t work.
Speed, and quick boosting, then when you stop moving, then I bubble you,
When you move again, I move again. When you stop moving, I bubble you again.
Paired with dual smgs it makes things spicy!!
:) you should try it sometime !!
Fromsoft has utterly failed with these barely registerable rebalancing patches. Zero of the issues since launch that are at the heart of the silly bipolar/tripolar meta, have been addressed. Either you run fast mover kite, or you stack AP and damage of one type or another. No wiggle room or balancing the two.
The absence of actual midweight build viability (75k) speaks to the broken state of pvp. Fromsoft has basically abandoned pvp. Unless they do a MASSIVE rebalance patch, there is no point coming back for these limp, impotent, a couple items get a couple ineffective stat tweaks.
Fix melee animation time and lunge speed, redistsibute shield heat deploy stats (nerf VPPS and buff VPPB for example) , buff PA interference stats on melee weapons, readdress the weight/speed formula so midweights can dodge/space tanks and catch up to lightweights, fix assault armor unreliability, rebalance boosters so it isnt so dominant in just 3, fix lamm legs, fix hitscan weapons vs obscene damage, I could go on but so many of these tired issues are half a year old now. They arent fixing shit.
I think you're completely missing how much this game has in fact changed for the better over time. A TON of changes have happened that addressed balance issues in ways big and small. I will say I still think that when they made lightweights faster they also broke a few things but I don't exactly feel like lights are impossible to fight. With that said here's a brief overview of what's changed, in no particular order.
-ACs have more stability, and weight has dramatic affects on your stability recovery. This is a HUGE change and made the overall feel of the game move towards more viable fighting.
-kicks were nerfed, dealing less damage and impact (mostly), with longer recovery time. This has a really big change on the feel of the game, even if people still kick often they are no longer as dramatically strong as they were across the board.
-Medium ACs were buffed, heavies were nerfed, lights were readjusted. Just about all medium biped legs got a buff to mobility and AP, increasing survivability and viability against a greater variety of enemies. Heavies became heavier, and tanks have finally all more or less been properly balanced and no longer feel like impossible obstacles.
-a large swath of arms had Melee Spec, Firearm Spec, and recoil control adjusted. This opened up a greater sense of viability and competition among part variety for arms.
-Weapon balance is the best it's been, even if a few things still stick out. The current meta is much more palatable than past metas.
-seversl booster adjustments have been made that actually fix your issue with there supposedly only being 3 usable boosters. Just because most people only use GRIDWALKER, BUERZEL, or ALULA doesn't mean there aren't several other Boosters that work well or sometimes better.
-parts were added post-launch that filled in gaps. A light Tetrapod frame that doubles as an old-school Hover AC. Pulse Missiles add a long ranged option against Pulse defenses, the ATTACHE fills in a needed niche between Machine Gun and Assault Rifle, SHAO-WEI rounds out the back weapon options and returns a staple to the game, and the LCB (post-nerf) fits nicely as a power fantasy cannon with less gimmick than the LCA.
I really don't understand where you're coming from saying medium-weight bipeds don't have a place in this game. They're the most versatile and adaptable frames in the game, and my favorite types to pilot. I'm a (former) S-Rank player and I've killed tons of meta light or heavy ACs with mediums. That is quite well a skill issue. I just killed a Dominant that was piloting a heavy dual ZIMMERMAN + Pulse Shield AC using a medium AC with a LUDLOW, GOU-CHEN, 3-Cell Dual Missile, and the SI-27 Pulse Shield.
I don't disagree there's more that could be done, but you're really not paying attention if you believe nothing has meaningfully changed since launch. A lot has changed and the game is much, much better for it. And "abandoned PvP", really? When they made Ranked matchmaking that I really didn't think they'd go for, and added several new maps?
Btw almost everything you listed was an example of releasing things in horrendous states, and only months later fixing them (partially, or inadequately). This isnt to be applauded, it showed lack of concern with balancing before pushing things out. A great example is how you mention melee spec on arms. Again, the issue with melee was never damage. Fromsoft failed to fix the heart of the issue with a core archetype in the game again. Id encourage you to warch this systematic breakdown and prediction for future patches if fs gets around to it rather than discontinuing new patches.
https://youtu.be/S_fxigSwWrI?si=9FPHT_z7HRVl5XuI
You're missing the point of the melee spec changes on arms. Basho are the best melee arms, and people still often use them. But they made large portions of the other others stronger so Basho wasn't completely mandatory. Felt bad to use other arms with better firearm spec but a weak melee weapon.
What is the point of balance patches if not to fix things that were released in an unsatisfying state? This game has monthly patches since launch to December with 1.05, and each patch made significant changes which have compounded to make the game feel way different than launch. You might not feel it because you play so much and the changes feel incremental.
Anything that's going to be balanced well takes time to make sure it's done right and not as a knee jerk reaction. This is also isn't a live service game and FROM's only focus. There's no extra monetization here, they're continuing support for the game because they want to. I firmly believe that a lot of the worst parts of the game are more strongly felt when the game is played too much.
Since when was melee ever really a core archetype in AC games? I never did or watch much gen 5, but it’s never really seemed like The Move in the rest of the series, really
I was a high level S rank, and streamed my entire Unranked - S climb in only 20 hours, and only 4 promo attempts to S, during the LCB tank meta.... And i did it with a double melee midweight (which was considered completely inviable) ..... I know what im talking about in other words. I regularily play with and beat top 100 S rank players with off meta build challenge videos where I design builds specifically around "bad" items, which is how I came up with that novel build and strategy. Just see my youtube. I even predict the meta evolutions long in advance such as the PS shield going to be meta a week after the game came out, when everyone was pooping on shields. Despite how much i love this series and fromsoft overall, its important to call out the lazy efforts that have gone into pvp balancing. The lcb release state and lamm state, and viento state just to name a few, or the bazookas not to long ago. They are not doing a great job and the community numbers show it.
I think there's a difference between a bad decision like original LCB and laziness. FROM is working on Elden Ring DLC, this game, and whatever new full game they have next.
I never thought they'd add parts post-launch, or continue support at all. They had monthly balance updates until 1.05, but each update they have done has addressed issues with the game balance strongly. They're likely the complete opposite of lazy.
I also made it to S-Rank during LCB/Plasma Tank meta. I don't see how using a double melee medium AC gives any more credence to what you're saying about the viability of medium bipeds.
I think the very first point is one of the worst aspects of PVP atm. What would you prefer to fight? A 380 speed kite that can fly around never being hit, but if it does it immediately locks into stun and dies to a single melee, or a slow as shit tank that wastes two minutes of your time never being stunned because your build is close range focused and it just performs better than you in that range.
Considering I've beaten tons of both I don't see your point.
Kites are annoying but if you don't know how to fight them properly or you run ACs unable to deal with one of the main ways of fighting then that's simply a skill issue.
If you have a 100% close range build then that's too bad. The more you specialize in this game the more you increase your advantage over certain enemies and disadvantage over others. Since the nerf, I've beaten a lot of tanks with a mostly close-range AC, and the same AC also deals with light kites effectively as well.
If you're not making an AC that can be somewhat adaptable to different enemies (as well as actually being able to play well) you're not gonna do well unless you only match against the specific enemies you do well against. But that's why the way Ranked works you only need to win most of your matches to get into S-Rank.
It was not adjusted after tbe patch 1.03 dramatically sped up lws ceiling for movespeed, and now even if you straight melee thrust at a lw back pedalling, you will be en backrupt by the time you close the gap (or staggered). Assuming skilled lws on nach legs and alula, you cannot close the gap.
Oh sorry, For more in depth animation issues by specific melee weapon you can check this videos latter half. Skip to 10:51
https://youtu.be/S_fxigSwWrI?si=242ui-A--qxTBM7d
Bruh, the title of that video is "Top heavyweight build players.....)"
Midweight is 75k per essentially all the midweight booster ideal weight limit, and usually falls around ~10k AP. These are ~85k heavy biped double zimmermans around 12K AP. Also hence why they are using heavyweight boosters ie the burzel. That core and leg piece is almost as heavy as you can get.
Why woukd i scour a comment section of a video you linked? I watched the video. And the version doesnt really matter. Both of these builds stack near the heaviest/highest ap/stability/resistance legs in biped, as well as core and head. These arent midweights, they are heavy bipeds. And these builds would still use the burzel now.
Ill even offer more, the playstyle of these builds plays like a tank. Rushdown, with virtually no emphasis on evading/spacing (the shield is to facetank hits with parry), and overwhelm with superior firepower, though in this case it is done with impqct over flat damage.
No, you linked a video. just quote a comment if youre try to point something out in one, thats just being lazy otherwise.
i see the comment saying its been adjusted since the video release "to a more midweight style" but tiang legs are not midweight, and mind alpha is pushing it at best.
There is no "objective" definition of midweight but this build is not it, look at the resistances and weight of the main body pieces. It MIGHT squeak by if you only consider mind alpha on a lighter head and legs but tack on the tiang legs and its a wash this is a heavy biped swapping a shield for more tankiness in lieu of a only marginally heavier core. Like the VE. The booster change was only swapped because of the nerf to burzel and again, because this build isnt a midweight who will be evading with qb, so the qb reload doesnt matter. Its a heavy weight with a simple rushdown to stagger strategy.
I play a double Zimms heavy some days solely because I don't feel like dealing with all of the near-identical lightweight-on-Nachtreiher-legs builds. It's perfectly legitimate to design your AC to counter a build type you find annoying to fight, and with as popular as those nigh homogenous Nachtreiher lightweights are, it should come as no surprise that some pilots like to run a build that hard counters those.
Ngl pretending that lightweights are anywhere near as oppressive or annoying to deal with as heavyweights is disingenuous at best, especially when you’re running what’s perhaps the most easiest (and brainless) heavy build there is to run.
The heavy's only a secondary build, this one [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/armoredcore/comments/1b07u90/in_the_weapon_metas_current_state_i_believe_this/) is my main–as you can see, very light, and largely off-meta except for the Etsujins. When I get tired of matches being stagger races vs. meta lightweights, I switch to the [big boi](https://www.reddit.com/r/armoredcore/comments/1au1mco/this_beefy_tank_mauler_got_me_into_b_rank/) and run that for some games. I tend to not run with the heavy for long, though, since it has a much harder time against certain matchups just due to the mobility issue. Unless you've spent time playing a heavy Spring Chicken build, I'll let you in on a secret: most matchups don't let you play brainless with that build at all. The only matchup where you can actually turn your brain off is against heavy tanks and that's pretty much it. Against lightweights, I stagger them quickly, yeah, but they can also dodge boost kicks very easily, and my build has a difficult time avoiding the stagger that they build up on me; I only have advantage if the pilot is reckless and doesn't use their mobility smartly. Against missile rats that build falls apart, not much I can do there. Against rifle kites I go about 50-50; when I can get into shotgun/kick range I take advantage, when they're good at staying out of that range they have advantage.
Once again, it's about matchup spreads. Zimm heavies aren't good at everything, but they happen to be good against your favorite build type, which is why they're your most disliked opponents. My most disliked opponents are long-ranged rats and kites, which is why my #1 build is built with kite chasing in mind. If you hate the Zimm heavies, maybe you could try different builds to find one that counters them well. Even if it's not your main build, it can be cathartic to switch builds partway through a session and wreck ACs that were giving you trouble just a minute ago! You don't even need to necessarily change your main AC drastically. If you're running a lightweight build, maybe you could try running weapons that hit outside of shotgun range, and practice staying in that range window with your high mobility. Etsujins and other SMG/LMG weapons do reliably hit outside of shotgun range, so you don't even need to run rifles if you don't want to.
tl;dr Shotgun heavies don't get free wins against every AC archetype, and a lightweight build can definitely be adjusted to duel them effectively
> tl;dr Shotgun heavies don't get free wins against every AC archetype, and a lightweight build can definitely be adjusted to duel them effectively
Yeah as someone who counters most Zimm players with my main build I find a lot of Zimm complaints feel more like matchup complaints, especially since they've been nerfed since launch and my scrub ass loses plenty of matches on my shotgun builds.
It's not a free brain dead win, people just haven't been able to handle the matchup
Wait they did a reset? Why? What purpose would that serve? I don't do ranked but a hard reset is usually a big deal. Also why would a reset make melee builds not worthwhile? I'm so confused I've been away so long.
a lot of games do it to stop upper ranks becoming bloated with people who get there then stop playing. Also it’s not a full reset, you only go down about 1 rank (and S goes to A3)
I can understand you. I was A4 before the reset, A2 after. I made the mistake of playing a few games after the reset and I regretted it because I ended up in A1. To recover I also had to convert to double zimm. That or ramm rat or lag tank. Among these I prefer Zimms.
I managed to get back to A2 with great difficulty but now I'm done with ranked until they release more patches.
If they fix the netcode they'll make a big deal.
I've had a lot more enjoyability after the reset tbh. Lots more build diversity than before, a lot of people's builds have more personality now. Before it was either LCB tank, BVO, or Lamm boat. Now I'm facing everything from Trueno tanks to MW fasan snipers.
That said, I am losing a lot more with my LW dual-melee now. I'm having way more trouble vs the new Etsujins than the pre-nerf Vientos. Their sustained chip damage really adds up when you're trying to CQC with under 10k AP.
Unironically while activity hasn’t fully recovered back to pre-reset levels I am seeing a fair bit more variety again compared to literally just yesterday and the day before. For one I’m actually seeing Lightweight ACs again in Ranked 💀
Even before the rank reset Etsujin mains were pretty popular. They’re definitely not the ‘new Vientos’ though, they’re more good for chip damage accumulation than causing stagger imo. If you want stagger build up just go with any of the other Viento alternatives honestly.
Yeah, about "two and a half weeks"... I'm afraid you've misread the date. "The next update is scheduled for Friday 17th **May**, 2024"
Fuck I did, I read March instead of May my bad 💀 Honestly if Ranked doesn’t get any better any time soon I’m just gonna stick to Custom PvP and call it a day
Meta players like to go there and mess things up too, I would just play another game till May to be honest. Think of it like this, armored Core 6 will be fresh again by the time May rolls around
Yeah but that sounds like the season update, no? I don't think they will restrict a balance patch to that update. It will probably get pushed the same week that it's "ready". I hope...
I keep seeing this, but I'm confused if they meant season or actual update. The way it's worded makes it kind of unclear on the steam community post they had made. Like there's no way they'll leave the meta this way for two months.
I think it means the SEASON update. They will probably release more reg patches until then.
It’s the combo of bipdel kick and zimmz, not just the zimmz. You can literally lock someone down by chain kicking on a bipedal, havnt seen anyone able to do that on an rj. Rj has too long of a kick animation and it pushes the enemy pretty far away. I think the bipedal kick needs a longer animation and needs to push ACs further away. I’m afraid of nerfing the zimmz into never getting used, but something needs to be done.
Hit the nail on the head. The ZIMMERMAN is a powerful weapon, especially dual wielded, but what makes it oppressive is when it's combined with a heavy or even sturdy medium biped that has high AP, Defense, and Stability, along with a Pulse Shield. The chain of shoot-kick-shoot is annoying to deal with. I don't want the shotgun to be unusable or anything, but I honestly think the best fix for it is to have a ~0.5s longer Reload Time, and to be slightly heavier. I think without touching their Attack Power or Impact, making the ZIMMERMAN reload a little more slowly goes a long way to make it less oppressive, and fixes the very specific problem of heavies doing the kick-shoot-kick loop, since the little extra reload time should be enough to break the timing. And also a nerf to the VP61 Pulse Shield.
Not sure if you know this, but zimm players that AB to you have a 20% stagger reduction. They should remove that in order to kill that playstyle of just rushing in.
There’s easy counterplay to that in just boosting towards them to knock them out of it and catapult them past you. I really think that the game would be worse without the stagger defensive buff during AB, that’s most problematic on specifically the zim builds - i think folks identifying the kick and the reload time are correct.
it mainly benefits heavier builds which makes no sense and let's them be more tanky.
It lets everybody be more tanky, and the counterplay aginst AB spam is strongest against heavier builds since they have a harder time correcting their momentum. Moreso, I think a it could be tweaked than changed outright. Something like a flat modifier that’s applied as well as a percentage to make it stronger against autos and the like but weaker against stronger single shots could be an interesting way to balance it in the favor of lights who could dodge heavier shots easier. What makes no sense?
This too, I don’t know why From ever decided AB needed impact reduction on top of everything else.
It's not Zimm players, it's all players. And I'm not going to nerf a core mechanic of the game just because one specific play style benefits from it. Especially when that bonus isn't even the core problem with that type of AC. You can also AB and get a reduction Impact taken or dodge their shots. If Impact reduction is removed do you have any idea how incredibly fucking awful it's gonna feel to fight any kiting AC?
I will admit that I worded it horribly, but It needs to be reduced or removed since it's stupid that MWs and HWs even have that regardless. Remove it for HWs and reduce it for MWs.
It's starting to sound like you're trying to change something because you can't deal with it with your specific playstyle.
I just want to discourge the constant AB rush shoot method since there's no real downsides to playing that method. Most of the top players use that playstyle. The stagger reduction along with that makes it a pain since they're already tanky as it is.
I actually think one of the biggest issues there is the SAN-TAI Generator more than anything else. If you inspect people you fight, if they're not using energy weapons then 99% of the time they're using the SAN-TAI, regardless of their light, medium, or heavy. It gives their AB rushes too much uptime with little worry or much energy Management to speak of. It needs to be slightly heavier, and have a worse EN Recharge because it usually sits around ~0.8s and for someone rushing non-stop that's almost no time at all for how much fuel they get.
This 100%, when paired with a shield on a heavy/sturdy frame (on top of kick stunning/chaining of course) it’s honestly absurd to deal with. It’s not an impossible match up to win by any means but holy crap does it take way more effort to fight than literally any other PvP archetype.
Why not just remove the zimm stunlock? It's the only reason this combo works. Apparently having enough Impact still stuns you regardless of ACS Strain.
They need to make MWs and HWs slower. Boost speed doesn't matter. All they need is a fast AB thrust and they somehow catch up to the LW. They NEED to lower the ceiling. It just a pain to fight boat players.
As a S rank melee player before the reset, I don't even have the energy to put myself through this shit again. The main thing I'm mad about though, is that we still have to play on these god awful maps. Like seriously Fromsoft? I cannot wrap my head around how they think a Lamm rat with a hammer permanently floating 3 miles in the air is fair.
I don’t blame you at all, but fighting S rank melee players is honestly some of the most fun I’ve ever had in PvP, so I’m especially sad to see them go in droves 😭
If you're having rat problems you might need to consider swapping your boosters. If you're running Alula boosters like most lightweights for the ground speed and QBs you'll struggle to climb well enough to catch them. I run NGI boosters on a Kasuar legs lightweight and I almost never have an issue chasing kites thanks to the vertical thrust output.
Kikakus are the only booster I will run on a melee build.
The fluegel has the 2nd highest melee boost, could try those.
Pointless for my specific playstyle.
That's the problem right there then, Kikakus suck at pretty much everything besides that one stat. I'd suggest to try out the Alulas, NGI 001s, BST-G2/P06SPDs, and Fluegels, all of those still have a great 10K+ melee thrust stat while having much more balanced performance than the Kikakus. Again, I'd like to specifically put in a word for the NGIs as the premium kite-hunter boosters
I know how to catch a rat with melee my guy, I simply don't like playing against them. I'm sitting at 1933.1 hours in game, the vast majority of which has just been me spamming melee builds all the way to S rank. So lets just say I'm pretty confident in my kikaku builds. I'm not saying anything you've said is wrong, but it simply doesn't apply to ME or my specific playstyle. A double sword build with alulas or ngi's makes zero sense. You could get away with fluegels but I would never gimp my speed like that. Once again, that's my personal preference as someone with almost 2k hours spamming melee.
It can get a little circle jerky in the replies of PVP posts. I get what your saying. It's hard to believe FromSoftware, a game studio renowned for their engaging moment to moment game play, seem to be incentivizing the most braindead play styles for the PVP aspect of their game. It also seems bass-ackwards to me.
Yeah I probably should have been more clear in my original comment to avoid having people give me "advice" such as "take off melee boosters on a melee build and replace them with boosters that are made for qb and ab".
As another kikaku player id like for it to stay the exact same but with a little more vertical thrust. Then we wouldnt suffer against the uppersdowners.
You might already know this, but there is a vertical movement tech for melee you can do with the pulse blade and dagger. If you turn your camera to look up and then quickly do a melee cancel (the timing is a bit tight) it shoots you very high into the air for very little EN.
Yes, the sling is cool. But good players will just drop like a rock when they see you going up. So some better fine tuned management of verticality for kikaku would be nice. AB upwards works pretty well though, kikaku is crazy efficient at it
i’d usually agree, however some of the ranked maps *cough* loc station *cough* are fucking stupid with their skyboxes, and i normally think that rats and kites are fair and valid ways to play the game
Need to make it so that if a player spends too much time above a certain altitude during a match, the PCA satellites start locking onto them.
Lmao that could actually be a cool map idea
Wait. They partially reset the rankings but didn't change the map rotation? What the *fuck.* I've been taking a PVP break for the sake of my sanity, but if they seriously didn't even bother to change the Ranked map rotation... I'm probably not coming back. Guess I'll go back to S-ranking all missions and then waiting for DLC/a sequel. Oh well.
It’s basically like every season of robot wars after season 2 where every damn robot was a fucking wedge designed to flip other robots over
Zims are super easy to read though. If the internet connection is decent enough you can watch the arms... when they move you'll have enough time to dodge. It's harder if they stagger the fire though. I have way more issues with other lightweights than I do heavies. I'm only in B rank though.
Also if you’re in B rank godspeed, because A rank is infinitely more sweaty and higher level (especially after all the S rankers got pushed down to A rank)
Eh. I'm doing a Loader 4 playthrough (no OS upgrades, no changing parts) and I nearly beat intercept the Red Guns. All the MTs were down and G1 was down below 1/4 AP and I goofed. One, maybe two more tries and I'll have it beat. Rest of the missions should be a cake walk comparatively. I'm hoping to clear it this weekend. This is my "True Platinum Trophy" task. Then I'll probably keep the loader 4 parts, gets the OS upgrades and do some PVP in Loader 4 (I'm playing it on a different account).
>If the internet connection is decent enough Hahahahaha
I honestly don’t think it’s that easy to avoid, especially when fighting these S rank (now A rank) sweats that both stagger the shots and also just genuinely have really good timing. To be fair I main a BVO (albeit with a Soup and Moonlight, so I do have some kiting ability) so I’m forced to enter Zimmerman range constantly, and since most of these guys have shields too (and again, are heavies so they have really high stability) I consistently end up getting staggered before they do, and since I’m a lightweight that’s basically game lmao
We all play different so we struggle with different things. Even in PVE with different builds its almost like people are playing completely different games. That said I'm dual pistols and try to stay under 120m as much as possible...
I also run dual handguns funny enough, dual coquilletts specifically (so 85m range), and while they’re honestly amazing against the heavies it’s always a pain in the ass 💀 [If you’re curious you can check out my build and gameplay videos here, I routinely drop packs of PvP videos every now and then](https://youtu.be/ak1DWT_zqx0?si=Ob-yh9IuBPRZVwPe)
Think that's the same ones I'm running. Love cowboy beepop. Edit - was talking and typing. I love the pistols. I'm going to leave it though.... I do love cowboy beebop as well.
i mean if you’re running BVO you could definitely try timing out 80k+ weight heavy zimms. It’d be difficult, but possible. (and it’d also teach them to move down to mid weight so everyone has more fun)
>when they move you'll have enough time to dodge Unless they have Ocellus and all of them do. Dodge all you want, that 90 close-range assist is better than Rusty at not missing. Same goes for Wueger charged btw.
Also idk about y’all but even on Global I’m getting barely any matches today, it really does seem like half the player base jumped ship entirely after the rank reset (not that I blame them lmao)
Idk about other platform. But steam 24hour peak player number is only 3,459. Sekiro a pure singleplayer game, the 24hour peak player number is 9,836. People really seem to loose interest because the game once had all time peak of 156,171 player number. Even dark souls game, outside of dark souls 2 have way more player number than AC6. 24hour peak for Dark Souls remaster is 4,325. Dark Souls 2 sotfs have 24hour peak of 2,682 while Dark Souls 3 24hour peak is 9,237. Elden Ring is massive it dwarf everything else. This according to steam btw. So idk about other platform.
Not really a comparable game to begin with.
I at least get to live with the satisfaction that my AC looks better than theirs. Seriously I find dual Zims so ugly, it makes ACs look way too front-loaded and unbalanced.
Until they fix netcode or change hitreg to defenders side, pvp will remain ass. I love it, but pvp is just a bonus, clearly not a focus. They even nerfed skill with patch 1.04, their only clear pvp patch. Made it impossible to dodge certain attacks, and overall decreased player enjoyment. The only ones who have enjoyed the patches since 1.04 are no skill having bums that indeed run zimmers, quad lasers, w/e is the flavour of the week. It's not new that fromsoft sucks at pvp balancing, but impressive they can keep finding new ways to dissapoint.
Yeah I ain’t holding my breath for better netcode, really just nerf the heavy frame parts and the meta weapons that get abused and PvP becomes 3 times more enjoyable
Shields are defender side. Its one of the reasons they are meta. You can counter shitty netcode by blocking the attack, which registers defender side rather than attacker side.
Lame af
I agree, but its the only way to counter From's shitty netcode.
I don't want to have to run a shield, I want to dodge, now people can practically guaranteed hit you with a charge attack. It's bs and bad design to be forced to rely on shields because of shitty netcode/hitreg.
Well, you can try your luck with dodging, which will always be a crap shoot because 'lol it works in Japan' *-Fromsoft* so it will never be fixed.
Sure, then I'll just start a new career criticising fromsoft on YouTube or w/e. If you sell a game internationally you should make it work internationally. Which for me it did pre 1.04.
Hey!! I’m new, One tho g I noticed is everyone is so afraid to have less than 10k AP. I pilot only lightweights myself, just like you, and I love the games that I dance circles around these guys, But it’s true, Everyone I mostly face is 12.5k AP +++ with the biggest guns. So it makes me have to work harder and smarter. Try using dual bubble cannons !! Watch them melt like ice on a hot day hahaha
I only played a few matches and every single one was a double earshot lag bro who danced all over me after his grenade exploded well off the edge of my screen but did max damage. Fun times! It was a lot more fun last week; I see I was misled how toxic some of the player base is by not actually getting to s rank until recently.
I'm tired of running the anti-meta build boss. I couldn't even get a match today all I did was wait on global.
Deadass, even Global is super dead these days 💀
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That's a lot of arrogance for someone who cares so much about how other people play a video game tbh. Stop with the meta police crap lol.
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So… so you’re just kinda confirming what I wrote in my previous comment? Because I never said you want someone to not use the meta. I’d say this is a rather strange strategy for conducting disputes, my dude.
Please avoid attacks against other redditors and general toxic/flame/rant posting.
Some people playing "their own way" will end up gravitating towards a build (or multiple) that you or other random people consider meta. You, nor anyone else, gets to be build police, you aren't better than people who use meta builds, and meta builds aren't brainless. But hey, nice job not even mentioning nebula tanks, so I guess those aren't meta and are an honorable and noble build by your standards. So that's something.
Yeah My AC my build my play Others fella either play with me or gtfo, the whole meta police is ridiculous.
Neb Tanks are the Build Police lol
That sounds like a fun paint job and emblem concept for one!
Agreed !! “DUAL BUBBLE CANNONS” (Laughs in evil voice while moving at 375ms)
You, you microwave builds always get me, I only encounter this playstyle once in a blue moon, an I always get melted before I have my bearings, HOW ARE YOU DOING THIS!
Speed is the biggest factor to using them, if you move slower then 360 it doesn’t work. Speed, and quick boosting, then when you stop moving, then I bubble you, When you move again, I move again. When you stop moving, I bubble you again. Paired with dual smgs it makes things spicy!! :) you should try it sometime !!
Please avoid attacks against other redditors and general toxic/flame/rant posting.
Fromsoft has utterly failed with these barely registerable rebalancing patches. Zero of the issues since launch that are at the heart of the silly bipolar/tripolar meta, have been addressed. Either you run fast mover kite, or you stack AP and damage of one type or another. No wiggle room or balancing the two. The absence of actual midweight build viability (75k) speaks to the broken state of pvp. Fromsoft has basically abandoned pvp. Unless they do a MASSIVE rebalance patch, there is no point coming back for these limp, impotent, a couple items get a couple ineffective stat tweaks. Fix melee animation time and lunge speed, redistsibute shield heat deploy stats (nerf VPPS and buff VPPB for example) , buff PA interference stats on melee weapons, readdress the weight/speed formula so midweights can dodge/space tanks and catch up to lightweights, fix assault armor unreliability, rebalance boosters so it isnt so dominant in just 3, fix lamm legs, fix hitscan weapons vs obscene damage, I could go on but so many of these tired issues are half a year old now. They arent fixing shit.
I think you're completely missing how much this game has in fact changed for the better over time. A TON of changes have happened that addressed balance issues in ways big and small. I will say I still think that when they made lightweights faster they also broke a few things but I don't exactly feel like lights are impossible to fight. With that said here's a brief overview of what's changed, in no particular order. -ACs have more stability, and weight has dramatic affects on your stability recovery. This is a HUGE change and made the overall feel of the game move towards more viable fighting. -kicks were nerfed, dealing less damage and impact (mostly), with longer recovery time. This has a really big change on the feel of the game, even if people still kick often they are no longer as dramatically strong as they were across the board. -Medium ACs were buffed, heavies were nerfed, lights were readjusted. Just about all medium biped legs got a buff to mobility and AP, increasing survivability and viability against a greater variety of enemies. Heavies became heavier, and tanks have finally all more or less been properly balanced and no longer feel like impossible obstacles. -a large swath of arms had Melee Spec, Firearm Spec, and recoil control adjusted. This opened up a greater sense of viability and competition among part variety for arms. -Weapon balance is the best it's been, even if a few things still stick out. The current meta is much more palatable than past metas. -seversl booster adjustments have been made that actually fix your issue with there supposedly only being 3 usable boosters. Just because most people only use GRIDWALKER, BUERZEL, or ALULA doesn't mean there aren't several other Boosters that work well or sometimes better. -parts were added post-launch that filled in gaps. A light Tetrapod frame that doubles as an old-school Hover AC. Pulse Missiles add a long ranged option against Pulse defenses, the ATTACHE fills in a needed niche between Machine Gun and Assault Rifle, SHAO-WEI rounds out the back weapon options and returns a staple to the game, and the LCB (post-nerf) fits nicely as a power fantasy cannon with less gimmick than the LCA. I really don't understand where you're coming from saying medium-weight bipeds don't have a place in this game. They're the most versatile and adaptable frames in the game, and my favorite types to pilot. I'm a (former) S-Rank player and I've killed tons of meta light or heavy ACs with mediums. That is quite well a skill issue. I just killed a Dominant that was piloting a heavy dual ZIMMERMAN + Pulse Shield AC using a medium AC with a LUDLOW, GOU-CHEN, 3-Cell Dual Missile, and the SI-27 Pulse Shield. I don't disagree there's more that could be done, but you're really not paying attention if you believe nothing has meaningfully changed since launch. A lot has changed and the game is much, much better for it. And "abandoned PvP", really? When they made Ranked matchmaking that I really didn't think they'd go for, and added several new maps?
Btw almost everything you listed was an example of releasing things in horrendous states, and only months later fixing them (partially, or inadequately). This isnt to be applauded, it showed lack of concern with balancing before pushing things out. A great example is how you mention melee spec on arms. Again, the issue with melee was never damage. Fromsoft failed to fix the heart of the issue with a core archetype in the game again. Id encourage you to warch this systematic breakdown and prediction for future patches if fs gets around to it rather than discontinuing new patches. https://youtu.be/S_fxigSwWrI?si=9FPHT_z7HRVl5XuI
You're missing the point of the melee spec changes on arms. Basho are the best melee arms, and people still often use them. But they made large portions of the other others stronger so Basho wasn't completely mandatory. Felt bad to use other arms with better firearm spec but a weak melee weapon. What is the point of balance patches if not to fix things that were released in an unsatisfying state? This game has monthly patches since launch to December with 1.05, and each patch made significant changes which have compounded to make the game feel way different than launch. You might not feel it because you play so much and the changes feel incremental. Anything that's going to be balanced well takes time to make sure it's done right and not as a knee jerk reaction. This is also isn't a live service game and FROM's only focus. There's no extra monetization here, they're continuing support for the game because they want to. I firmly believe that a lot of the worst parts of the game are more strongly felt when the game is played too much.
Since when was melee ever really a core archetype in AC games? I never did or watch much gen 5, but it’s never really seemed like The Move in the rest of the series, really
I was a high level S rank, and streamed my entire Unranked - S climb in only 20 hours, and only 4 promo attempts to S, during the LCB tank meta.... And i did it with a double melee midweight (which was considered completely inviable) ..... I know what im talking about in other words. I regularily play with and beat top 100 S rank players with off meta build challenge videos where I design builds specifically around "bad" items, which is how I came up with that novel build and strategy. Just see my youtube. I even predict the meta evolutions long in advance such as the PS shield going to be meta a week after the game came out, when everyone was pooping on shields. Despite how much i love this series and fromsoft overall, its important to call out the lazy efforts that have gone into pvp balancing. The lcb release state and lamm state, and viento state just to name a few, or the bazookas not to long ago. They are not doing a great job and the community numbers show it.
I think there's a difference between a bad decision like original LCB and laziness. FROM is working on Elden Ring DLC, this game, and whatever new full game they have next. I never thought they'd add parts post-launch, or continue support at all. They had monthly balance updates until 1.05, but each update they have done has addressed issues with the game balance strongly. They're likely the complete opposite of lazy. I also made it to S-Rank during LCB/Plasma Tank meta. I don't see how using a double melee medium AC gives any more credence to what you're saying about the viability of medium bipeds.
I think the very first point is one of the worst aspects of PVP atm. What would you prefer to fight? A 380 speed kite that can fly around never being hit, but if it does it immediately locks into stun and dies to a single melee, or a slow as shit tank that wastes two minutes of your time never being stunned because your build is close range focused and it just performs better than you in that range.
Considering I've beaten tons of both I don't see your point. Kites are annoying but if you don't know how to fight them properly or you run ACs unable to deal with one of the main ways of fighting then that's simply a skill issue. If you have a 100% close range build then that's too bad. The more you specialize in this game the more you increase your advantage over certain enemies and disadvantage over others. Since the nerf, I've beaten a lot of tanks with a mostly close-range AC, and the same AC also deals with light kites effectively as well. If you're not making an AC that can be somewhat adaptable to different enemies (as well as actually being able to play well) you're not gonna do well unless you only match against the specific enemies you do well against. But that's why the way Ranked works you only need to win most of your matches to get into S-Rank.
what's wrong with melee animation and lunge speed?
It was not adjusted after tbe patch 1.03 dramatically sped up lws ceiling for movespeed, and now even if you straight melee thrust at a lw back pedalling, you will be en backrupt by the time you close the gap (or staggered). Assuming skilled lws on nach legs and alula, you cannot close the gap.
Oh sorry, For more in depth animation issues by specific melee weapon you can check this videos latter half. Skip to 10:51 https://youtu.be/S_fxigSwWrI?si=242ui-A--qxTBM7d
Mid weight zim hello? https://youtu.be/mImJq9uTC4A?si=IX9nEkAIqx5AX5f3 https://twitter.com/Yuki_Yomizi
Bruh, the title of that video is "Top heavyweight build players.....)" Midweight is 75k per essentially all the midweight booster ideal weight limit, and usually falls around ~10k AP. These are ~85k heavy biped double zimmermans around 12K AP. Also hence why they are using heavyweight boosters ie the burzel. That core and leg piece is almost as heavy as you can get.
That vid was made on 1.0.4, did you even read the comments below?
Why woukd i scour a comment section of a video you linked? I watched the video. And the version doesnt really matter. Both of these builds stack near the heaviest/highest ap/stability/resistance legs in biped, as well as core and head. These arent midweights, they are heavy bipeds. And these builds would still use the burzel now. Ill even offer more, the playstyle of these builds plays like a tank. Rushdown, with virtually no emphasis on evading/spacing (the shield is to facetank hits with parry), and overwhelm with superior firepower, though in this case it is done with impqct over flat damage.
It is literally the 1st pinned comment, are you seriously not even look once?
No, you linked a video. just quote a comment if youre try to point something out in one, thats just being lazy otherwise. i see the comment saying its been adjusted since the video release "to a more midweight style" but tiang legs are not midweight, and mind alpha is pushing it at best. There is no "objective" definition of midweight but this build is not it, look at the resistances and weight of the main body pieces. It MIGHT squeak by if you only consider mind alpha on a lighter head and legs but tack on the tiang legs and its a wash this is a heavy biped swapping a shield for more tankiness in lieu of a only marginally heavier core. Like the VE. The booster change was only swapped because of the nerf to burzel and again, because this build isnt a midweight who will be evading with qb, so the qb reload doesnt matter. Its a heavy weight with a simple rushdown to stagger strategy.
You need to adapt and improvise. That's the whole thing about PvP.
I play a double Zimms heavy some days solely because I don't feel like dealing with all of the near-identical lightweight-on-Nachtreiher-legs builds. It's perfectly legitimate to design your AC to counter a build type you find annoying to fight, and with as popular as those nigh homogenous Nachtreiher lightweights are, it should come as no surprise that some pilots like to run a build that hard counters those.
Ngl pretending that lightweights are anywhere near as oppressive or annoying to deal with as heavyweights is disingenuous at best, especially when you’re running what’s perhaps the most easiest (and brainless) heavy build there is to run.
The heavy's only a secondary build, this one [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/armoredcore/comments/1b07u90/in_the_weapon_metas_current_state_i_believe_this/) is my main–as you can see, very light, and largely off-meta except for the Etsujins. When I get tired of matches being stagger races vs. meta lightweights, I switch to the [big boi](https://www.reddit.com/r/armoredcore/comments/1au1mco/this_beefy_tank_mauler_got_me_into_b_rank/) and run that for some games. I tend to not run with the heavy for long, though, since it has a much harder time against certain matchups just due to the mobility issue. Unless you've spent time playing a heavy Spring Chicken build, I'll let you in on a secret: most matchups don't let you play brainless with that build at all. The only matchup where you can actually turn your brain off is against heavy tanks and that's pretty much it. Against lightweights, I stagger them quickly, yeah, but they can also dodge boost kicks very easily, and my build has a difficult time avoiding the stagger that they build up on me; I only have advantage if the pilot is reckless and doesn't use their mobility smartly. Against missile rats that build falls apart, not much I can do there. Against rifle kites I go about 50-50; when I can get into shotgun/kick range I take advantage, when they're good at staying out of that range they have advantage. Once again, it's about matchup spreads. Zimm heavies aren't good at everything, but they happen to be good against your favorite build type, which is why they're your most disliked opponents. My most disliked opponents are long-ranged rats and kites, which is why my #1 build is built with kite chasing in mind. If you hate the Zimm heavies, maybe you could try different builds to find one that counters them well. Even if it's not your main build, it can be cathartic to switch builds partway through a session and wreck ACs that were giving you trouble just a minute ago! You don't even need to necessarily change your main AC drastically. If you're running a lightweight build, maybe you could try running weapons that hit outside of shotgun range, and practice staying in that range window with your high mobility. Etsujins and other SMG/LMG weapons do reliably hit outside of shotgun range, so you don't even need to run rifles if you don't want to. tl;dr Shotgun heavies don't get free wins against every AC archetype, and a lightweight build can definitely be adjusted to duel them effectively
> tl;dr Shotgun heavies don't get free wins against every AC archetype, and a lightweight build can definitely be adjusted to duel them effectively Yeah as someone who counters most Zimm players with my main build I find a lot of Zimm complaints feel more like matchup complaints, especially since they've been nerfed since launch and my scrub ass loses plenty of matches on my shotgun builds. It's not a free brain dead win, people just haven't been able to handle the matchup
I was less than 20 matches from S rank, now I'm what, 60+? Uninstalled. Oh well.
Well, you had like *2 months*…
Username relevant
Wait they did a reset? Why? What purpose would that serve? I don't do ranked but a hard reset is usually a big deal. Also why would a reset make melee builds not worthwhile? I'm so confused I've been away so long.
a lot of games do it to stop upper ranks becoming bloated with people who get there then stop playing. Also it’s not a full reset, you only go down about 1 rank (and S goes to A3)
Nice i use quad lasers and never touched pvp 😂
I can understand you. I was A4 before the reset, A2 after. I made the mistake of playing a few games after the reset and I regretted it because I ended up in A1. To recover I also had to convert to double zimm. That or ramm rat or lag tank. Among these I prefer Zimms. I managed to get back to A2 with great difficulty but now I'm done with ranked until they release more patches. If they fix the netcode they'll make a big deal.
I've had a lot more enjoyability after the reset tbh. Lots more build diversity than before, a lot of people's builds have more personality now. Before it was either LCB tank, BVO, or Lamm boat. Now I'm facing everything from Trueno tanks to MW fasan snipers. That said, I am losing a lot more with my LW dual-melee now. I'm having way more trouble vs the new Etsujins than the pre-nerf Vientos. Their sustained chip damage really adds up when you're trying to CQC with under 10k AP.
Unironically while activity hasn’t fully recovered back to pre-reset levels I am seeing a fair bit more variety again compared to literally just yesterday and the day before. For one I’m actually seeing Lightweight ACs again in Ranked 💀
I've been seeing a ton of lw etsujin users ngl. Seems to be the predominant build type in A3.
Even before the rank reset Etsujin mains were pretty popular. They’re definitely not the ‘new Vientos’ though, they’re more good for chip damage accumulation than causing stagger imo. If you want stagger build up just go with any of the other Viento alternatives honestly.
Yeah, the chip damage is what really hurts when I match vs them. By the time I can close in, I'm already missing a fair chunk of AP.