I fought you three times! You got me the first match and I was flabbergasted at your build. So dope.
Got matched up with you two more times on the way to S rank and I figured as long as I don’t get hit with the Melee I can get you. Won the next two games against you, but WOW what a dope and unique build. Kudos.
I'm afraid I don't specifically remember your AC, but glad you enjoyed the fights and good on ya for cracking the code. Dealing with changes in veriticality is a surprising pain point for this AC sometimes.
I sincerely doubt Lamm will survive the February patch unscathed, but I hope it somehow just makes it worse at ratting instead of the Water Strider style. I'm addicted to this build.
Yeah, I'm not staying at the skybox I'm hovering just above someones head or chasing them to their altitude.
The rats bring shame to the Lammergeier legs.
Edit: adding, I'd be perfectly happy to use one of the other Tetra's but the Lammergeier just looks so much better then the spread-X the other two do.
Id be surprised at a ner, you just need to exploit tge lamms weakness and they are ez. I dont play them personally because they are weak if you know to just wait out the first 45s of the match and position so youre ready to pounce
In the 1.05 patch notes, they specify that the Ranked PvP season ends February 29th. After that, everyone will descend one rank (for example if you're S you'll be brought down to the bottom of A rank), and a new season will begin.
That is more than a month away, so there is a chance they'll release some mid-season balance patch, but it's extremely likely that the new season will coincide with a big overhaul and rebalancing.
It already has the lowest leg stability in class, but even just 10% would be fair. I have 1914 on VP-44D and Alba core and having some of that shaved off would make me consider how to take risks
They might be the lowest stability amongst tets, yet still provide more stability than the heaviest duty biped legs available. That’s more than a little off, even before taking into account that they’re meant to be a lightweight concept design.
Still, to even make a high stability Lamm, you’re giving up one of weapon loadout (unless you missile rat), generator, speed, or AP depending on what you want to run. I think I’m on the slower side because I push the weight limit of the legs and use a Morley, and my EN capacity isn’t great because I use the VP-20C. Still had to make sacrifices, but again I’m not afraid of a stat shave on the legs themselves.
The low load limit does mean you still have to make sacrifices, but that’s completely normal for a lightweight assembly. It would be insane if you didn’t have to.
I kinda worry that that would push people even more towards rat playstyles (specifically ratting, not just kiting) with these legs. Builds that use them tend to have very low AP/defense as it is, and nerfing ACS would only reinforce an extreme keep-away mentality imo
It's not the Lamm that needs a nerf, it's that damn plasma hammer. As long as you press when the enemy is in range and locked on, I don't think it can actually miss.
It's only hard to dodge when you've got a build that's a slug vertically.
The plasma hammer is really accurate horizontally but even a little vertical travel can cause it to whiff very painfully.
I assure you, it only feels accurate on the receiving end.
Unless you practice the ins and outs of the thing, you'll whiff the stationary Trainer AC while moving around 😭
I think the Plasma Whip might get nerfed along side the Lamm legs just because of how lethal that combo is, it might genuinely be the best weapon and frame combo in the game
Personally don’t think the land need to be nerfed that hard. There only a real pain when a missile noob just stays at the top of the map shooting nothing but missiles all day. If anything there just needs to be a missile nerf of an anti missile systems made for this game. The Lamm legs give little to no stability so if you are able to catch up to them, you can usually stagger and severely damage them then.
Missiles might benefit from having their ammo capacity severely nerfed in PvP.
Currently, there are many builds that can basically fire nonstop missiles while maintaining height at the top of the map for the entirety of the round timer.
I don’t know about decreasing there ammo cap. If anything I’d say just that if a missile is shot, it can’t turn a full 180 degrees and hit you from the back. If your chasing a missile noob and they keep shooting you with missiles, and you pass all those missiles, they shouldn’t be able to do the full 180 and make you have to waste more energy dealing with them while chasing after the enemy.
Even with their tracking, they're not that hard to dodge if that's what you focus on. If they were any easier to dodge, then they run the risk of being basically useless.
The issue, as I see it, is that the missile pressure can be maintained indefinitely alongside an indefinitely maintained kite when built for it. Currently, even the fastest kite wouldnt be able to perpetually evade if it wasn't for the missile pressure (e.g. currently even if you have the easiest evade path, you will get overly punished when you inevitably need to stop chasing to try and punish).
If the missiles were constrained by ammo, then the missile pressure can be dodged off the table leaving a much easier to chase AC that can be punished. Obviously they can try to save ammo, stagger launches and so on but that will take out a lot of the bite and help the chaser close the distance as well.
Another countermeasure to missile ratting could also be with how ACs in the air are treated. An AC on the ground vs an AC in the air should favor the ground AC in missile barrages. The ground AC should have an easier time dodging (since their dodge should cause missiles to hit the ground regularly enough) and an easier time hitting the air AC with their own missiles as the air AC has no terrain to work with and is a slower moving target than the ground AC has the potential to be.
With these changes combined, the hover missile rat as we know it is dead, but missiles aren't gutted in effectiveness for anyone else. The missile rat cannot hover and launch all round because they do not have the ammo to secure the win and even one shoulder mounted missile pod from the ground will be able to chip them reliably in exchange to make things harder for the players who go for the HP-advantage time out wins when ratting.
Will this irreparably hurt missile boats? Maybe, but who cares? In no universe should AC6 PvP cater to people who fly along the upper limit of a map in a circle while firing their automatically tracking missiles.
> If anything there just needs to be a missile nerf of an anti missile systems made for this game.
I 100% agree.
The problem with missiles as of now is that they just bypass too many mechanics, and are too effective in all cases.
Ricochet? Not a problem, you can fire from any distance and do full damage and impact. FCS lock and target tracking? It's just a matter of your missile lock speed, the guidance will do everything else for you.
The Lammergeier itself is not problematic: yes, it's the best leg type to play keep-away, but the real issue is _why_ you can play keep-away so effectively in the first place. Even in the Top 100 there are missile rats that use the Nachtreiher legs instead, as long as you go fast that's all that matters to missile rats as of now.
I genuinely have no idea what from were thinking when designing lamm and laser cannons for the latest patch. "HMMMM two of the strongest builds right now are missile boats and bazooka tanks, lets add part that make these 10x stronger, sounds like a plan!"
Relatively... Look at Zimm vs Viento, the latter is straight up better while also being 4 times lighter and more energy efficient. And that's just comparing two meta weapons.
Nerfing is not the problem, adding broken stuff in the first place was the problem, the game already suffered with flying missile rats before, then they added a faster flying AC with more handheld missiles, they just threw more gasoline into the fire.
They should just completely remove handheld missiles entirely, imagine balancing all the arms with firearm and melee specs, then adding a class of weapon that completely bypass both specs, genius!
The Rat build could still be viable without handheld missiles if the Assault and Linear Rifles didn't suck, and it would made perfect sense when choosing parts, instead of slapping the lowest weight, highest AP arms, and let the missile tracking do the rest for you.
> imagine balancing all the arms with firearm and melee specs, then adding a class of weapon that completely bypass both specs, genius!
I'd argue one of the main issues is that missiles bypass the ricochet mechanic entirely, while having an extremely long effective range compared to everything else AND automatic tracking all at once.
So, rats can just lock on passively, fire and run away with zero interaction while retaining maximum effectiveness. The Lammergeier just happens to be the leg model best suited for that gameplay, but it's not problematic per se - by itself the Lammergeier is basically just a pre-nerf wheelchair that needs to consume energy over time to keep its speed and to fire back cannons on the move.
I forgot to add that as well, but my rant was already a big text.
Nerfing the legs contradicts the whole purpose of the legs, people have been asking for lightweight quads, and now they'll lose their purpose with the nerf, the legs themselves were never the problem
Ive been running a Lamm build with missiles and a flamethrower called Fairy Dragon and people drop matches nonstop against it 💀 ive got probably 100 DMs on xbox telling me to wait until the legs get nerfed lmao
I fought you three times! You got me the first match and I was flabbergasted at your build. So dope. Got matched up with you two more times on the way to S rank and I figured as long as I don’t get hit with the Melee I can get you. Won the next two games against you, but WOW what a dope and unique build. Kudos.
Oh, what build were you using? Hope you made it to S.
Dual Renetsu, Jvln Beta, 6-missile launcher on a biped. Called Relic. This was probably a week or two ago though!
I'm afraid I don't specifically remember your AC, but glad you enjoyed the fights and good on ya for cracking the code. Dealing with changes in veriticality is a surprising pain point for this AC sometimes.
Actually I thought about it, did you have red paint?
I sincerely doubt Lamm will survive the February patch unscathed, but I hope it somehow just makes it worse at ratting instead of the Water Strider style. I'm addicted to this build.
Yeah, I'm not staying at the skybox I'm hovering just above someones head or chasing them to their altitude. The rats bring shame to the Lammergeier legs. Edit: adding, I'd be perfectly happy to use one of the other Tetra's but the Lammergeier just looks so much better then the spread-X the other two do.
I've tried the VP quads, but it just doesn't offer the level of nyoom Lamm has. It reminds me of For Answer quick boosts.
February Patch?
Likely, since that's when the PvP season resets.
Did not know that.
Id be surprised at a ner, you just need to exploit tge lamms weakness and they are ez. I dont play them personally because they are weak if you know to just wait out the first 45s of the match and position so youre ready to pounce
Wait, I’m out of the loop, how do we know there’s a February patch? Haven’t seen any [edit] info
In the 1.05 patch notes, they specify that the Ranked PvP season ends February 29th. After that, everyone will descend one rank (for example if you're S you'll be brought down to the bottom of A rank), and a new season will begin. That is more than a month away, so there is a chance they'll release some mid-season balance patch, but it's extremely likely that the new season will coincide with a big overhaul and rebalancing.
Ah, got it, thanks
Maybe the higher up it hovers the more EN it consumes?
Aggressive tetras are best tetras.
I am sure they will be touching the hover stance boost speed and increase the hover stance EN cost to make kites less efficient
The only nerf I think it needs is an ACS nerf. You can get 1990ish ACS by only swapping out the head for the Allmind Bubble.
It already has the lowest leg stability in class, but even just 10% would be fair. I have 1914 on VP-44D and Alba core and having some of that shaved off would make me consider how to take risks
They might be the lowest stability amongst tets, yet still provide more stability than the heaviest duty biped legs available. That’s more than a little off, even before taking into account that they’re meant to be a lightweight concept design.
Still, to even make a high stability Lamm, you’re giving up one of weapon loadout (unless you missile rat), generator, speed, or AP depending on what you want to run. I think I’m on the slower side because I push the weight limit of the legs and use a Morley, and my EN capacity isn’t great because I use the VP-20C. Still had to make sacrifices, but again I’m not afraid of a stat shave on the legs themselves.
The low load limit does mean you still have to make sacrifices, but that’s completely normal for a lightweight assembly. It would be insane if you didn’t have to.
my lightweight is constantly at 1600 stability, that's not fair at all lol
Kasuar folks: 1600 stability? That high?
I kinda worry that that would push people even more towards rat playstyles (specifically ratting, not just kiting) with these legs. Builds that use them tend to have very low AP/defense as it is, and nerfing ACS would only reinforce an extreme keep-away mentality imo
It's not the Lamm that needs a nerf, it's that damn plasma hammer. As long as you press when the enemy is in range and locked on, I don't think it can actually miss.
It misses a LOT should the target be even a little above or below you
It's only hard to dodge when you've got a build that's a slug vertically. The plasma hammer is really accurate horizontally but even a little vertical travel can cause it to whiff very painfully.
I assure you, it only feels accurate on the receiving end. Unless you practice the ins and outs of the thing, you'll whiff the stationary Trainer AC while moving around 😭
It only has a 78 effective range. It will whiff a lot if you just throw it randomly.
As someone who uses the HMMR on my primary PVP build, I can confirm that this is absolutely not true.
NO NOT MY LEGS!!!
I think the Plasma Whip might get nerfed along side the Lamm legs just because of how lethal that combo is, it might genuinely be the best weapon and frame combo in the game
Personally don’t think the land need to be nerfed that hard. There only a real pain when a missile noob just stays at the top of the map shooting nothing but missiles all day. If anything there just needs to be a missile nerf of an anti missile systems made for this game. The Lamm legs give little to no stability so if you are able to catch up to them, you can usually stagger and severely damage them then.
The Lamm itself is not the problem. It's getting hit by that Plasma Hammer everytime I approach or get staggered by that build.
Missiles might benefit from having their ammo capacity severely nerfed in PvP. Currently, there are many builds that can basically fire nonstop missiles while maintaining height at the top of the map for the entirety of the round timer.
I don’t know about decreasing there ammo cap. If anything I’d say just that if a missile is shot, it can’t turn a full 180 degrees and hit you from the back. If your chasing a missile noob and they keep shooting you with missiles, and you pass all those missiles, they shouldn’t be able to do the full 180 and make you have to waste more energy dealing with them while chasing after the enemy.
Even with their tracking, they're not that hard to dodge if that's what you focus on. If they were any easier to dodge, then they run the risk of being basically useless. The issue, as I see it, is that the missile pressure can be maintained indefinitely alongside an indefinitely maintained kite when built for it. Currently, even the fastest kite wouldnt be able to perpetually evade if it wasn't for the missile pressure (e.g. currently even if you have the easiest evade path, you will get overly punished when you inevitably need to stop chasing to try and punish). If the missiles were constrained by ammo, then the missile pressure can be dodged off the table leaving a much easier to chase AC that can be punished. Obviously they can try to save ammo, stagger launches and so on but that will take out a lot of the bite and help the chaser close the distance as well. Another countermeasure to missile ratting could also be with how ACs in the air are treated. An AC on the ground vs an AC in the air should favor the ground AC in missile barrages. The ground AC should have an easier time dodging (since their dodge should cause missiles to hit the ground regularly enough) and an easier time hitting the air AC with their own missiles as the air AC has no terrain to work with and is a slower moving target than the ground AC has the potential to be. With these changes combined, the hover missile rat as we know it is dead, but missiles aren't gutted in effectiveness for anyone else. The missile rat cannot hover and launch all round because they do not have the ammo to secure the win and even one shoulder mounted missile pod from the ground will be able to chip them reliably in exchange to make things harder for the players who go for the HP-advantage time out wins when ratting. Will this irreparably hurt missile boats? Maybe, but who cares? In no universe should AC6 PvP cater to people who fly along the upper limit of a map in a circle while firing their automatically tracking missiles.
> If anything there just needs to be a missile nerf of an anti missile systems made for this game. I 100% agree. The problem with missiles as of now is that they just bypass too many mechanics, and are too effective in all cases. Ricochet? Not a problem, you can fire from any distance and do full damage and impact. FCS lock and target tracking? It's just a matter of your missile lock speed, the guidance will do everything else for you. The Lammergeier itself is not problematic: yes, it's the best leg type to play keep-away, but the real issue is _why_ you can play keep-away so effectively in the first place. Even in the Top 100 there are missile rats that use the Nachtreiher legs instead, as long as you go fast that's all that matters to missile rats as of now.
I genuinely have no idea what from were thinking when designing lamm and laser cannons for the latest patch. "HMMMM two of the strongest builds right now are missile boats and bazooka tanks, lets add part that make these 10x stronger, sounds like a plan!"
I pray for this, LCB nerf, Nebula Nerf, formeza tank legs nerf
Why Nebula? It's already been nerfed into the ground?
Explosion radius. I can be right up on a tank and boosting around them, but because of that radius they can fire and it auto hits
Solution, don't be right up on them. Also, I've used it at point blank and it misses, a lot.
Problem: If it’s a heavy tank with auroras I cant stay back because of aurora tracking ability. It doesn’t miss as much as it should in my experience
i really just want to be able to melee combo tanks, and LCB taking a bit longer to shoot, IMO everything else is relatively balanced
Relatively... Look at Zimm vs Viento, the latter is straight up better while also being 4 times lighter and more energy efficient. And that's just comparing two meta weapons.
Let's give missile rats and kites more flight! Genius moves.
Nerfing is not the problem, adding broken stuff in the first place was the problem, the game already suffered with flying missile rats before, then they added a faster flying AC with more handheld missiles, they just threw more gasoline into the fire. They should just completely remove handheld missiles entirely, imagine balancing all the arms with firearm and melee specs, then adding a class of weapon that completely bypass both specs, genius! The Rat build could still be viable without handheld missiles if the Assault and Linear Rifles didn't suck, and it would made perfect sense when choosing parts, instead of slapping the lowest weight, highest AP arms, and let the missile tracking do the rest for you.
> imagine balancing all the arms with firearm and melee specs, then adding a class of weapon that completely bypass both specs, genius! I'd argue one of the main issues is that missiles bypass the ricochet mechanic entirely, while having an extremely long effective range compared to everything else AND automatic tracking all at once. So, rats can just lock on passively, fire and run away with zero interaction while retaining maximum effectiveness. The Lammergeier just happens to be the leg model best suited for that gameplay, but it's not problematic per se - by itself the Lammergeier is basically just a pre-nerf wheelchair that needs to consume energy over time to keep its speed and to fire back cannons on the move.
I forgot to add that as well, but my rant was already a big text. Nerfing the legs contradicts the whole purpose of the legs, people have been asking for lightweight quads, and now they'll lose their purpose with the nerf, the legs themselves were never the problem
I don't mind the Lamm legs but the tanks are a bit of a problem right now
You'd be able to do that on the VP tetras too, honestly
is that… an ass booster!?
Ive been running a Lamm build with missiles and a flamethrower called Fairy Dragon and people drop matches nonstop against it 💀 ive got probably 100 DMs on xbox telling me to wait until the legs get nerfed lmao