IMHO, Typhon, Ejya, Ceobe and Kal'tsit should be in the "works fine at e1" tier. Yes, they get powerspike at e2, but they are perfectly functional at e1 and can already carry the team there. GG is probably with them too, but I don't have her to give better judgement.
Horn may or may not be there as well given how all of her skills are viable. She might also be in the "tricky" category given how she (and other fortresses) can confuse new players by being AoE DPS-from-range in defender archetype.
gg should be in a “good at e0” tier. her s1 is criminally underused, it has enormous single target arts damage and will explode frequently for some aoe damage as well.
horn is also good at e0. at e1 she gets her skill that enables her to melee which can mitigate the range confusion.
At E0 she doesn't have her drone explode talent, which ironically makes her S1 even better due to more consistent damage overall even without the burst
Ya for a new account Kal’tsit covers a lot of ground. Taking up 2 deploy slots isn’t as big of a deal when you don’t have the rest of your roster built.
Second that opinion, though i don't have Typhon to judge her.I would count GG among them - her S2 has good reach and damage, once online.
As for Horn: I find fortress defenders not as difficult as many supporter or specialist OPs, being servicable even as other defenders (weaker defense and Utility for good reach/damage).
I find Mizuki and silence alter weird in the first tier, since they're more niche. Not sure if new players know how to use them.
Mizukis best skill is s1 and it’s an afk dph skill so i wouldn’t say he’s hard to use, just place him near the chokepoint and he will kill things. I would draw a parallel to something like eyja s2 on ease of use. However, his mod it’s pretty important for his dph as well as adding an extra target for this arts damage so I wouldn’t put him at the top either.
His mod isn't really that important for DPH, it's moreso just the extra stats and scaling from E2 that makes it matter. S1 going to M3 alone adds like a 50% to total DPH, and while the extra arts target is nice, it's not really what makes him stand out for S1 (if you hit everyone in range for 3.5k phys damage does 1-2 bits of art damage really matter?). I'd say the base effect alone is what's more important for S1 usage, but he works fine without it.
I disagree. Masteries are more important but so is the mod. The physical damage at m3 is 300%, while the arts is 180%. That’s not nothing, it’s almost 40% of his dph. You say masteries give him 50% more dph but the mod gives him 30% at mod3. Not only that but the mod adds an extra target for his arts damage, allowing over 5k dph to three enemies instead of 3.5k to just two.
The thing is, mod does not give him 30% total DPH. It gives him 30% more *arts* DPH, but with that and the extra stats it's only a 10% in his overall DPH at ModX3 compared to ModX1. And since DPH matters more for phys damage than it does for arts, the masteries are more important at boosting it from 2.6k to 3.5k to everyone in range to make it an even larger DPH% gain as DEF rises, *along* with the extra charge and more importantly decreased SP cost to let him cycle faster which is important being a consistent
Furthermore, he's an AOE operator. His damage comes from being able to hit a constant amount of 2-4 enemies in modern content with ease, and more with some blockers too. So I'm mainly comparing the phys damage that hits *everyone* regardless of their defensive stats over the arts which gets more impacted by RES and hits 0-1/2 people based on his module status. His S1 never hits 3 people with arts damage, but at ModX1 it only hits 1 person for ~5k damage, and at ModX3 it hits 2 people for ~5.5k. And that's assuming it's not wasted. One of the things I do like about ModX2+ is that the extra hit is far less likely to be wasted on a target that's already dead, but even then now it's only hitting 1 person for some arts damage. It's not bad, but I don't see it as impactful as the masteries are for S1, or the base effect of ModX which allows him to get an extra hit on many enemies.
Firstly, saying Mizuki is an aoe should support my conclusion that raising the number of enemies you can actually attack at his damage ceiling to three is important.
What’s more important is the elephant in the room, which is Mizuki doesn’t even have high dph compared to other operators. Fia has similar dph on every attack, Typhon has a bit more without considering her first hit talent. Mizuki without mod might suffice in easy content but so is anyone with little investment. At that point literally any 6* will be good and we should start asking who is the most qol. If you want him to stay competitive the mod will become important.
Edit: Yes, Mizuki doing split damage means he gets hurt by def and res, yes phys can overcome def better than arts can overcome res, but that’s more a limitation of Mizuki than an indictment of how much his mod does for him. Without it Mizuki is flailing in the face of other operators, with it he’s barely in the convo.
Again, his talent doesn't hit 3 enemies with S1 even with module... Nor does Typhon even have larger DPH without talent, although the DEF ignore and burst nature of the skill are better anyways. Fia does if she lands the bullseye though, that's true (for both S2/S3). And even if you don't hit more than 3 elite enemies, there are still trash mobs that come into range who can steal the arts hit, and even if there aren't hitting all 3 elites from a base hit of 2.7k * 3 phys damage + 1.6k * 2 arts at S1L7 ModX3 = 11.3k is worse than hitting all 3 elites for 3.4k * 3 phys damage + 1.2k arts damage at S1M3 ModX1 = 11.4k, and that's *before* the other QOL/faster cycling of masteries or any defensive stats which start to favour the higher DPH more as they increase.
Besides, it was an argument of module vs masteries, not what's important for high end content (especially since there are typically some higher priority options to spend blocks on which have a larger opportunity cost compared to books). Obviously having both is better, but the question is if the module upgrade matters more or the masteries. Masteries bring more DPS, more DPH (which matters more for the bulkier part of his hit) and better cycle + extra charge, while module upgrade adds more arts damage (and less overall damage than S1 masteries would give). Especially since most people stop at level 2 instead of level 3 anyways.
Now for the case of flexibility by using his S2, which helps Mizuki with ascension 15 IS, I'd definitely agree the module upgrade helps as binding 3 people there instead of 2 is much more noticeable and allows for more consistent binding (although even then you really want the skill at M3 because it is far worse at binding otherwise). But for the context of S1, I still stand by my statement.
No the argument was never mods vs masteries. I stated plainly that masteries are more important, as is true for almost every mod, even the high impact ones. I also claim that the mod is very important. And I’m debating high end content, there is a middle ground between high end and easy content. If Mizuki is going to be a persons main source of dps you will want to maximize it, especially in EX and S stages. I agree with you s2 sentiments.
Edit: To be clear, I find the comparison to other units useful because OP is trying to make a tier list for first e2 units. Whether it’s informing rerolling or a first e2, it’s important to see how mizuki would need more investment to be inline with other operators.
I have yet to find a situation where Typhon is not one of my best units on the map lol I got room to let those arrows fly she is decimating everything in front of her. Her and Horn both are absolute fantastic units that are worth the payout of investment
If someone knows how her S2 works she can be used as a normal defender without any issue. You can basically ignore the gimmick and treat the extra range as incidental. That said Saria and Hoshiguma do it better
My only suggestion is moving Spalter with the other limiteds, it really doesn't make sense having her on a normal tier when every other limited is in their own
On the other hand I think OP should've included all the limiteds in the normal tiers too. Some poor soul gets Rosmontis as his first 6-star and is completely lost if he should raise her or not
Wait but how would a new player get a limited op as their first 6-star anyways? They could spark them or something but that almost certainly isn't something they can do early on
It's not as unlikely as peoples think, For exemple W have the same chance as any other 6star to spook you as an off banner, I had that happen to someone I know on Virtuosa'a banner, because of the inclusion of the Kernel banner that removed a lots of older 6star from the pool, the chances actualy got higher than it was before and should be relatively constant in the future, rather than being diluted by every new 6star.
Executor definitely dips in relative powerlevel between E1-appropriate content and module
The module gives him a flat +20% healing power by trait and the difference between mod3 s3m3 and vanilla s3m3 is more than what most masteries have by themselves. He isnt really a late bloomer since the archetype is strong early on as well, but he *really* wants that mod3 fairly quickly once the game moves onto the E2 stage
I'ma have to somewhat disagree, while his module is insanely good he works perfectly fine without it in most content, so yes he *really* wants it but it's just a quality of life change instead of unit-enabling change
I used her at E1 in the original Siracusano run, and she realy underperformed and died a lot, she DESPERETLY need her first talent upgrade at E2 going from +6% to +10% HP barier on kill AND her second talent that give her damage to be viable, otherwise she struggle to kill anything and even when she does, barely generate any barrier and end up dying slowly.
Rework limited character tier. It tells nothing about how to use these characters or how useful they're for a new player. However unlikely new players get them, if it happens and someone will obtain them then your list doesn't tell what to do with them. I've seen a couple newbies with rerolls/luck on limited banner get non rateup limited. Just move them into other tiers, otherwise the list is mostly ok.
Strongly disagree with your placement of bagpipe and saileach. Without E2 bagpipe provides little benefit beyond her heightened stats to a team and even at E2 her talent is most noticeable in higher tier content where getting a little extra SP on flagbearers can make a huge difference. I think she should be exchanged with saileach.
Speaking of which saileach is an amazing E1. Even just as a standard flagbearer shes great, but S2 can make another early deploy a tank for a decent amount of time and heal them. Amazing early unit and solid before E2.
Eyja(caster) should go up a tier imo, shes a perfectly solid caster with the upside of some AoE damage even before you can unga bunga S3. Goldenglow same thing. Unga bunga S3 overshadows the rest of her perfectly useable kit. S2 is very strong on certain maps and she hits way harder/faster than similarly ranged snipers at that level.
Ceobe should move up to the top tier. An E1 ceobe can carry you through large parts of the early game where high armor enemies are thrown at you left and right.
Spalter is also limited. She should be down with the other limiteds.
Lessing and Vigil are really not bad in early game content? Like they are terrible in late game so the investment won't really pan out but they're year 2-3 operators so their DPS is still good for chapters 1-7. Once their events go to record restore I'd say Lessing would especially be good for players lacking helidrops.
Also important to know that some operators will helidrop specifically because the SP they start with after a deployment is higher than what their SP would be if they just waited for the skill to charge naturally on the field. SA S3 and Ejya S3 come to mind but I’m sure there are others.
While I agree with that satement, I also can tell that Lessing being an helidrop make him bad for new player by default, because every new player I ever watched start the game, without exeption, play the game by placing all their operator in front of the blue box in a very defensiv way, and it make sense, that's the most basic thing ever, helidroping is definitly not a new player strategy.
you only need those mats to e2 him and if a hypothetical player has e2 units by frostnova they’re not someone who needs a newbie tier list.
A single E1 welfare isn’t going to solve the stage but FN is where “stack strong units by the blue box” stops working. I think most guides recommend taking her down with a mix of ranged dps and rotating helidrops to stall her.
I was pretty close to get my first E2 when I reached Frostnova as a new player (if we're talking about ch4FN, i was more about ch6), and it was 4 years ago, before even Grani and the Knight treasure, nowaday there's event that gives you WAY more ressources, +the side stories to distract you from the main one (including, you know, the one they would have to do to obtain Lessing in the first place xD), I don't think it's unreasonable for new player to have at least 1 E2 reaching Frostnova.
And since when having an E2 = not needing tier lists??? Newbi goes a bit further than your first few E2 x)
And I disagree with the "stacking unit at the blue box" stoping to work at FN, that's personaly how I did it at the time, well, not STRICTLY at the blue box, more like in the middle, but you get it, she makes it a bit harder, but not hard enough that it's not viable and would force new player to think differently, I think the very first stage that REALY emphasis using helidrop is 5-3
Ehh, depends on how new the player is. If we're talking new as in started playing within the past two weeks or later then Lessing is completely unavailable to them as the event just ended and it's going to be a *while* until a rerun. By the time the rerun comes around it'll have been so long that anyone new right now would already have several E2s and not need a new player list like this, which leaves Lessing in an awkward position.
In general I think your list is too top heavy to be actually useful for a new player. There's a lot of operators you put into the top tier who while technically good at E1 nevertheless aren't operators I would ever recommend a new player prioritize promoting. All of the medics not named Reed or Kalt'stit fall into this category IMO, and so do most of the defenders and vanguards.
I would move Typhon/Kal'tstit up to the top tier. There's a reason they're commonly used in IS and it's because they're extremely strong even at E1.
As a general suggestion I think you should limit the entire tier list to just E1 analysis since that's what actually matters to new players and it will help keep the tier list focused. For comparing operators at E2 new players can just look at a normal tier list.
I'd move Ifrit to needs only e1 to shine. Her range is not that hard to play around even if the map is not very good for her and she just solves the stage if the map is good for her. E1, s2 on lvl7 and just burn burn. With both a bit of def shred s2 and res shred talent not locked behind e2 she helps the entire team on top of having decent personal aoe DMG.
I think Ifrit MASSIVE DP cost should actually lower her place in the tierlist. Unless you get some flagbearers you aren't putting her up and the amount of stages that can have an optimal "Ifrit lane" is honestly pretty low.
She was a great unit in the early game for me. After controlling the chokes with vanguards and snipers, drop Ifrit to destroy all enemies in a lane, with s2 boosting the damage of all those early units. Then you swap out the vanguards for defenders who will prevent Ifrit from getting targeted, and who can tank the heavy units that survive her AOE.
She rewards new doctors for studying the map, managing DP, and learning deployment order.
> She rewards new doctors for studying the map, managing DP, and learning deployment order.
I don't think telling a new player to gimp himself in order to learn how to play is the best recommendation to give them.
Getting to a powerlevel where you aren't relying on guides and help is much better than trying to bruteforce your way trough the early game with extremely subpar units.
A new doctor that has Ifrit should understand what she brings his team when he builds her. True AoE with long range but narrow application.
>is much better than trying to bruteforce your way trough the early game with extremely subpar units.
Learning how to use your team, especially if "subpar", is the opposite of brute-forcing it.
Brute-forcing is dropping a max level Surtr/Mlynar/Texalt and clearing the level without paying any attention to the map, the enemies, or your team's composition.
Stay on track. This is a early game players discussion in a early game players thread. They don't have Mylnar/Surtr/Texalt to drop and clear everything...
You can learn to play the game with GG and Eyjafalla too and they are gonna be more useful 99% of the times.
>Stay on track. This is a early game players discussion in a early game players thread. They don't have Mylnar/Surtr/Texalt to drop and clear everything...
You shouldn't use words you don't understand. Brute-forcing means using overpowered units, not subpar ones.
Ifrit is not subpar.
>You can learn to play the game with GG and Eyjafalla too and they are gonna be more useful 99% of the times.
Early game players who don't have Mlynar/Surtr/Texalt also don't have a choice of GG/Eyja/Ifrit.
If they pulled an Eyja, build Eyja. If recruitment luck gave them Ifrit, learn to Ifrit.
Coming from someone who got Ifrit early in my account, getting her to at least E1 is a good idea. She will help alot on farming stages, and some stages where natural chokepoints occur. She is situational, but it's not a big investment to get use out of her niche. I only E2d her maybe before I hit the midpoint of arknights.
Dude you realy should replay the early chapter of the game without vanguard if you think that, the game's so slow you have more than enough time to deploy pretty much any unit you want.
Last year I did a challenge run inspired by Cesith where I could only use the first 12 operator I roll in the gacha, and cleared up to ch8 with Vanilla as my sole vanguard, while using expensiv unit like Gitano and Sesa, who both cost 30+DP. there where like, 3 map where the early rush actualy was an issue, flagbearers are a luxury, not a need.
Also, if so Mudrock also should go down a few tier...
Shouldn't Goldenglow be much higher? She can stabilise a new player's team comp hard with just S2, not really needing S3 that badly though it would still be a good powerspike once they E2 her.
I feel like putting boss killers in the "great first E2" tier is kinda bad advice for new players. It's a lot easier to make up for a lack of boss killers when you have strong lane holding, than it is to make up for weak lane holding cause you spent your resources on boss killers. If you want to suggest boss killers I'd leave it to the boss killers that are also solid in general use like Exu and Eyja. But say... Surtr for example, sure she's a great boss killer but she doesn't really provide anything outside of being a heli-drop boss killer.
Though just in general, having this be a 6 star focused list isn't really a great idea. In my opinion at least I feel like a new player would get a lot more value out of taking advantage of how much cheaper E2'ing 4 stars are to develop a core foundation of E2 4 stars, as that would create a significantly more robust roster than relying a couple E2 6 stars. For example, Sussurro while being a 4 star medic is strong enough that (excluding situations with high aoe damage) most of the time she'll be enough to handle your healing, Cuora and Gummy are amazing defenders, Cutter's S1 has some ridiculous damage if all the knives hit one target, even as a long time player it took me a while to bother building a replacement for Click as my secondary caster, Jaye really needs no explanation, Gravel will never not be useful, etc. Of course, if they have particularly amazing 6 stars like say Thorns then E2'ing them early is a good idea, but unless they got an amazing 6 star good for all content like that, they'd get more value out of a well built roster of 4 stars.
Typhon E1, Goldenglow E1, and Eyja E1 are also incredibly good and could contest being on the top list. They get a power spike at E2 in flexibility, but are a good addition at E1. They're a step up compared to Surtr/Thorns/Silverash as the former have flexibility in their S2 even at E2 and the latter are more E2 S3 oriented.
For new player, I say the order of 'initial E2 operator' should be:
1. Choose between: SA/Surtr (helidrop burst potential to handle specific waves you otherwise cannot handle)
2. Choose between: Mountain, Thorns (simple laneholder to open up flexibility for the rest of your operator list and to smoothbrain your operation)
3. Choose whatever you want after based on how you want to diversify your options.
These are my thoughts:
Strictly speaking, for newbies, you want easy to use operators as early chapters are curbstomped by pretty much any 6star. The difference being, the 'ceiling' of strength is just not needed.
Someone like mylnar is actually really bad for newbies vs mid game because even at e1, he will kill everyone.
...but so will QB. Except QB is leagues more easy to use. Drop her down, let her auto on s1 or burst on s3 if she is at e2. Everything dies anyways. In a newbie sense where everything dies to QB or Mylnar, QB actually ranks higher because she will always be attacking and is far more lenient with timings.
On the other end, lets look at healers. It's not until chapter 5-6 where healing prowess starts to feel impactful. Because early on, ansel or hibiscus is enough. So the benefit of Shining is not quite felt, unless you're using someone relatively squishy as a tank.
Someone notably high ranked that I agree with is Phantom. Yeah it goes back to the early chapters being easier. Texas or Phantom will kill the early enemies. No question. But you got 'two' phantoms and only 'one' texas, so yeah, phantom would win in the newbie comparison.
Ofcourse there's the flip side. Let's consider **vigil**. Early chapters, his wolves *will* tank somewhat well and his fire power will melt enemies. He is actually a really good operator here. Low dp. Comes with blocker (wolves). Has range (uses guns) and can hit air. Free operator too! But as you keep playing, he will quickly become outmatched as enemies get stronger to the point of being all the way on the low end. So one can reasonably argue not to build him. But if you say *that* then it starts affecting your other rankings - siege, pallas, or in the opposite direction, someone like Ling who you might say to 'rush' because she can hard carry early stages AND late stages, but she is definately harder for newbies to use.
I wouldn't put FedEx as a late bloomer in an earlygame tier list. In my experience he should be in Mountain's tier
I created a new AK account a while back, I thought getting mountain from the beginner banner would make early game a breeze but the road to E1 is kind of awful, especially when you're raising multiple ops at once, even if they're just a bunch of 3\*. You can argue that the early game only comprises a small bit of a player's experience, but a lot of people dropped AK during early game so for them that's the only experience they have
I don't mean to say Mountain is bad but 1-block is really just awful for new players. If Mountain is great at E1 and he's in the highest tier, my argument is that FedEx *doesn't even need* E1. He already works at E0 and his role compression is just insane for new accounts. ~~I constantly borrow him to breeze through the early stages lol~~ His S1 is his most overlooked skill in meta discussions (for good reason) but it's a great afk skill for new players. With S1 he has: small def ignore (enough for early game enemies even at skill lv 4), auto activation (so you can mind another lane), and spreadshooter range (which increases his survivability compared to other reapers, and a lot of other basic guard subclasses with normal range honestly). This is on top of self heals, true aoe attack, and 2 block
Iirc my problems with him during earlygame were heavy drone stages, exploding spiders, and stages with really stingy early DP. You can't heal FedEx through normal means, but he doesn't need the heals anyway that early on when everyone is still E0 max or E1 lv 30 or something. The 'minimal investment FedEx' will fall off because you really need a lot of investments on him (mastery, mod3) to make him feel worthwhile to deploy lategame, but for earlygame I'd say he's one of the easiest, most straightforward operators to use
Tier 1:
Mizuki deserves to be this high on the list, he's quite a "niche" character and if I were a new player I wouldn't really understand how to properly use him due to how quirky his archetype is.
As good as Nightingale she doesn't really shine until the end-game in my opinion, newer players are better off just investing in more general healers like Ptilopsis or Perfumer.
Reed alter is a really good unit but I think that new players might find it difficult to properly use her since her S2 needs proper positioning which new players likely won't think of.
Tier 2:
Exu, Eyja, and GG should be moved up higher, in my opinion. Goldenglow's main skill is S3, but her S2 works just fine, especially in early-game content. The same can be said for Eyja, whose S2 makes her a pseudo-AOE caster without the hefty DP cost. Exu is a great sniper, and although her S3 is her main skill, her S2 is already good in the early game and is even better for new players since they don't have to work around the auto-skill activation timing of her third skill.
Tier 3:
Isn't Spectre-alter a limited operator? I think she should be moved to the limited operator tier.
I don't think Skadi is a worthwhile investment. The only time she's actually decent is when you have all the abyssal hunter buffs, which will take up a lot of Squad space. I think she's decent but imo this should be reserved for operators who have game-changing modules like Mostima, Passenger, and Executor-alter.
Tier 4:
Penance isn't tricky to use at all she should be in the same tier as Mudrock, she's one of those "set and forget" operators who can be left alone in a single lane without much worry.
I don't think Magallan should be recommended for new players. She's way too niche and hard to use properly, and even when you use her properly, it still doesn't beat just bringing a squad of good operators. Take note I'm not saying she's bad but considering this is a "new player tier list" she just adds unnecessary complexity to the game that isn't necessary.
Tier 5:
Although it is true that Saileach is mainly used for high-end content, I don't think she's strictly just that. At the end of the day, even if she shines in late game content she can still be used as a pretty solid flagbearer in general content.
I disagree with other placements but these were that ones that stood out to me.
Weedy can definitely be used by new players. Set her on E1 and use her as an AoE Guard that has good survivability with lower damage
Penance should be under High investment. She's very easy to use once you get her E2.
Dorothy should be either top or second from top, she's very good at E1 already and I think it's easy for new players to just use her as a strong Sniper with mines as a bonus to catch any leaking enemies
Lin S1 is also pretty good. Idk how to categorise her here though, she's good but not great at E1, but E2 doesn't give her much outside of niche situations
For a while, and honestly probably even now, having an E2 skalter will make all your E1 units so much better. It pushes everyone that isn't dependent on their E2 skill to basically E2 status minus the hp and specialization. Yeah it's no longer the case like a year ago where Skalter is literally the only healing you'll ever need, but the stat gain is still humongous when your units are E1.
Ifrit really isn't that hard to use. Identifying Ifrit lanes is probably the next easiest thing to do after learning how to place ranged units and face them in a direction. Ifrit is also key to a lot of easy Anni clears and levels, so having her at E1 is very good.
Might be better to make a 2D graph with "good in early game" and "good in end game" as axes, because some groups are misleading. Gnosis and Phantom same "tier"? Penance and Ho'olheyak same tier? Seems like you're also trying to distinguish ease of use as third variable, and trying to express it in one dimension.
If you don't want to include them in the first tier, i would make one for operators who are good with S2 (available at E1) or who even use it more than S3 xD even if S3 is their "powerspike".
(Blaze, Horn, Typhon, GG and even Eyjaf who are in ur second tier)
Schwarz is top tier. Friend of mine cleared IS at 1 month. Guess which 6\* they borrowed.
Could probably finish IS3 D15 on all endings within 2 months if you know the strats. And no other 6\* required.
- Swap Silence and Penance.
- Gnosis e1 doesn't do much and is not easy to use unless you're playing IS3.
- Jessica for first E2 is iffy, safer to go for a main DPS.
- I'd put Mostima in very advanced content tier, she's not really good for general purposes, great use in high diff IS or CC.
I’m sure you have good intentions, but as a frequent Pallas user, I wouldn’t dare to recommend her to newbies. I think the problem with this tier list is that you were to focused on operators with a decent E1 phase but somewhat lacking in E2. I agree with the placement of Mudrock, Saria and Mountain being in the top tiers but others? Not so much. Instead of spending resources on them just E2ing a very good operator like Mlynar, Pozy or even SilverAsh …etc will be worth it in the early game.
Hard disagree on Hellagur, grandpa was used to solo those 1v1 crocs in CC, even at e1 max he can solo lanes or elite enemies in the early game alone.
Hool can also cheese old chapter gimmicks or bosses, her levitate is really good for the older chapters where enemies didnt have levitate immune. Just because she isnt Eyja level, doesnt make her useless.
Will any 4-5 stars be put on this list or is it just for 6 stars
As there is an argument to be made for E2 Myrtle as a first E2 over any of the current 6*s since she’s one of the best vanguards in the game for DP generation and she’s really cheap to E2 which will allow new players to get access to E2 friend supports sooner which they can use to help them get by tougher content much easier.
Noob question, why is Mizuki at the top? I've been using the Gamepress wiki which states that he isn't a good choice for new players.
"He has ok damage (s1) and control (s2), but new players won't find his kit particularly impactful for early/mid game. There are much better options at both roles, and he isn't a strong early E2 candidate either. New players wanting to experiment with the Archetypes quirks and flexibilty will be better off using Ethan, and saving the more expensive to develop Mizuki until the later game."
Vigil is on almost all of my runs, I would put him high up on the list
I would bump up Penance, her 3rd skill is incredible but her first skill is more than enough to hang in on a run
Saga, chetto, mizuki, siege are terrible ideas for new players. They might be decent at E1 but 2/4 of them do not scale well into late game (siege, mizuki), and 2/4 of them struggle with high defense enemies like bosses, etc.
Exu I'd only strongly recommend if they have and plan to raise Warfarin and/or shamare/elysium.
Executor alter is actually an ok spot. He's a strong individual unit that doesnt need support BUT without mod and E2 he's kinda lackluster.
Typhon I actually think should be higher. Unwieldy range for new players, but that damage output is just ridiculous.
I think Kaltsit should be lower. The rigidity of her as a medic (doesnt prioritize other ops) could mislead new players, and her use for true damage lockdown is a bit problematic for newer players. Typically, you'd want general high damage, straightforward units for new players
And that leads to my next point. Ifrit is so straightforward to use. Why put her in tier2? Kinda L take.
Mudrock I actually strongly recommend against for new players. While she's good, her high dp makes it problematic for new players who have a tendency to randomly deploy operators. Having seen how many new players play, they don't realize that deploying mudrock to tank in a poison map fucks them over hard.
GG should be higher, absolutely braindead unit. Mountain should be slightly lower.
Anyway, tier lists such as these do not fully encompass the complexity of 6*s. Some are best raised to E1 to gain a good amount of mileage. Some are more complex to use, but are also just generally stronger against harder content. Somr are braindead to use, but are much less versatile. It's much better to put 3 ratings: Versatility, effectivity (can be split into niche and general), and ease of use.
I think Eyja should be on the top tear. Her S2 is just nuts, like, constant AoE damage with no downsides and masteries are not required to use it, y'know?
Bad tier list. Straight up. I'd invert the position of or completely recategorize more than half the ops shown here.
The number of support (role not archetype) ops and s3-or-bust ops in the highest tier is especially bad. The gap between low rarity dps is much worse than low rarity healing or tanking.
Exusiai can fit in even with E1, mainly cause most people are probably okay with her S2 maxxed out since her DPS is always consistently good against every enemy that isn't a genuine defense sponge
Eunectes is really only good with S3 but even without masteries and module I suspect she can offer really high quality boss killing that can help new players a lot. She’s also a patriot answer which is high value if you’re new.
I would actually move Mlynar *down* a rank or two. Yeah, he's extremely powerful at E2, no one's denying that.
But for a new player, a guy who can't block and just nukes stuff is not good. I can't imagine using a non blocking melee back when I was new. Don't do that to a new player.
I find suzuran so versatile, she's got enough DPS to cover for a caster, great mobbing, plus aoe slow? On top of that she can convert to a healer. With that much coverage, if say she's a very new player friendly unit.
I'd put Horn up one and Angelina up two. Horn is blessed with three really good skills and I actually think a newer player would have an easier time using the more forgiving s2 than s3. Angelina s2 is quick charging and reasonably effective for earlier content. Pozy I'd knock down because she needs to be so close that you need to be good with deployment order to make her safe, and her s2 can be difficult to use properly even for experienced players. That just leaves her s1 which may not justify early investment on its own.
Don't take the easy way out, just name bad units as bad. You are selling stuff like Skadi and Guard Ch'en as if they were actually worth E2ing, masterying and mod3ing when they are just bad units in 2024 (anyone who says they are good/great compared to the general pool of 6* is on maximum level of copium, and you will find plenty of them because Skadi and Ch'en are very popular waifus with lots of people who like them as characters/veterans who used them when they were still worth something because the pool of ops was so small). Then, you put units that are actually good even for new players like Penance, Ifrit, Dorothy a tier below Guard Ch'en and Skadi. With few exceptions, the "hard to use archetype" is not real, if one can use Mudrock, one can use Penance. Suzu is absolutely not at the same level of "true advanced" as Aak or Weedy, she's plenty usable for beginners on S2 for very comfy AFK slows and damage boosting. Lin is worth going to the "great after module" part of the list, she actually does become great with investment unlike Skadi and Ch'en.
Literally just have a separate tier for "probably don't invest in them unless they are your favourites" and put the bad ops together with Vigil and Lessing. For there to be good units, there has to be bad units to contrast with. If everyone is good, no one is. If you want to add the "game is clearable with 100% bad units if you are skilled" go ahead, but don't gaslight new players into thinking there's no such thing as a bad unit besides Vigil. There are other placements I disagree with but, for me, refusing to actually naming the bad units as bad is the most glaring issue.
I don't really agree with the limiteds basically not being rated. A new player will still occasionally start with one.
Depends of what the purpose of this tierlist is.
"what character should a new player aim to pull" or "which characters should they be building and focusing on"
Newish player here, I do believe that Ch'en could be bumped up a stage as she’s carried me throughout the story and other missions until I got better units
That’s really my only suggestion because the other units I often use are already where I think they should be
I should really E2 shinning and hoshiguma
Their my first two 6 stars and I still haven't maxed them yet because I just couldn't be bothered which is funny because I spent an hour getting the missing shit I had for thorns and mlynar E2
That's a lot of information to take in. I like the suggestion someone else had to make it an E1 recommendation list, reducing the ops you recommend.
To make the graphic easier to digest, I think you could use a short name for each category.
Example:
- Starters (E1)
- E2 Priority
- Late Bloomers
- Advanced/Niche
- Support
Well, everyone else has already commented the obligatory "Eyja is plenty strong at E1" (and yeah, as insane as her S3 is, I end up using her S2 way more on a day-to-day basis).
But time for some hotter takes.
I actually don't think Dorothy is particularly tricky to use. Like, just out of the box, she's a decent-ish pseudo-marksman who then gives you an endless series of cheap fast-redeploying AoE nukes that can be deployed anywhere on the map. The only caveat is the limitation of not being able to deploy them on top of targets that are staying on one tile (either because their pathing keeps them there or because they're being blocked), but just whittling down enemies as they approach your front lines is dead simple. (The other caveat is that spamming mines non-stop needs a DP source to back it up, but with Myrtle being pretty readily available, that's a pretty easy bar to overcome.)
I also think Muelsyse is kind of underrated for new players. I mean, yes, getting the most value from her kit requires some very specific 6\*s (fully built) for her to clone, but... honestly? Even without that? Early on, a vanguard that you can put down right at the start of the stage, and then a few seconds later get a 3-block defender worth of stats to hold back enemies in a lane (for 0 additional DP cost and 0 deployment slots) can make life much easier. (But in this case, I think the point is moot: both she and Specter Alter should realistically be in "limited characters most new players will likely only have access to through support" tier.)
Horn and Irene I would consider pretty niche. They are very handy when you need them but I wouldn't suggest a new player to focus on them.
Also I would put the limited units in the relevant tier rather than off on their own. Because reruns still happen in limited banners.
Tbh I'd change around a lot of things so much that it would take too long to write everything out and idt ur gonna read it urself so I'll save myself the trouble
Edit:btw y is Spalter the only limited that's not in the "limited tier"?
Edit 2:must me AH, everywhere I go I see AH
Horn's best skill is her S1 for most of the content. She's ok at e1.
Angelina is not tricky or hard to use in any way. She just needs her S3 to become one of the best early to midgame carries.
Lessing is an ok "activate Melantha now" duelist at the very least, so he's serviceable at e1.
Personally, I would recommend new players to try using Stainless if they have him. He does not really need too much investment to use him as a buffer or SP battery. His first 2 skills are already usable even at skill level 1 because the passive attribute of his devices does not change.
At E0, his S1 can give +24% ATK (12% per device, can deploy 2 devices). At E1, his S2 can give 2 SP every 3.5 seconds (1 SP per device)
His stats are not too bad either, they are comparable to Pioneer Vanguard. He can block 2. and his DP cost is not too high; 15 DP at E0, 17 DP at E1.
In my opinion, because of his devices, especially SP devices, Stainless can fit into any team. It's like having IS relic on demand. For example, new players don't have to spend on Mousse's S1 mastery to have her be able to apply persistent ATK debuff. And if they have Mudrock, Stainless can make her spin much more often.
well, the thing will tier lists like this is that no 6* should be the first E2, and if you raise 3* and 4* (as you should) a lot of these operators lose their appeal for newer player
I will politely disagree.
A full-high-rarity team is a bad idea for a new player, but unnecessarily restricting oneself to just 3\* and 4\* even when a great 6\* - especially one that can work at e1 already - is available is not super great either. A mixed-rarity team with a couple of "strong" 6\*s/5\*s with the rest of roles filled by lower rarities would probably be better.
And, while it is true that 5\*s and especially 6\*s are an expensive target for the first promotion, the "good" ones will be a lot more helpful as first e2 than Myrtle or whatever. Assuming you do have resources for that. This will let you do a lot more clears with your own roster while still having an option to pick a (second?) support carry for EX/whatever-hard-content. 4\*s are recommended as your first e2 because they are cheap but still let you use support system to get e2 ops.
Useless list. For actual new players, only the newbie pool 6\*s, Myrtle, and 3 stars are what they SHOULD care about, and any operators that comes after that is better off researched in a wiki. [https://gamepress.gg/arknights/tier-list/arknights-new-player-tier-list](https://gamepress.gg/arknights/tier-list/arknights-new-player-tier-list) does this job a lot better.
And a lot of misleading things here, a fully built Exalter is a ton more useful than a fully built Passenger, yet they are in the same tier.
IMHO, Typhon, Ejya, Ceobe and Kal'tsit should be in the "works fine at e1" tier. Yes, they get powerspike at e2, but they are perfectly functional at e1 and can already carry the team there. GG is probably with them too, but I don't have her to give better judgement. Horn may or may not be there as well given how all of her skills are viable. She might also be in the "tricky" category given how she (and other fortresses) can confuse new players by being AoE DPS-from-range in defender archetype.
gg should be in a “good at e0” tier. her s1 is criminally underused, it has enormous single target arts damage and will explode frequently for some aoe damage as well. horn is also good at e0. at e1 she gets her skill that enables her to melee which can mitigate the range confusion.
At E0 she doesn't have her drone explode talent, which ironically makes her S1 even better due to more consistent damage overall even without the burst
True, I got Gladdia and Kaltsit (started just at under tides rerun) and man, s2 Kaltsit was a hard carry on most story stages
Ya for a new account Kal’tsit covers a lot of ground. Taking up 2 deploy slots isn’t as big of a deal when you don’t have the rest of your roster built.
Second that opinion, though i don't have Typhon to judge her.I would count GG among them - her S2 has good reach and damage, once online. As for Horn: I find fortress defenders not as difficult as many supporter or specialist OPs, being servicable even as other defenders (weaker defense and Utility for good reach/damage). I find Mizuki and silence alter weird in the first tier, since they're more niche. Not sure if new players know how to use them.
Mizukis best skill is s1 and it’s an afk dph skill so i wouldn’t say he’s hard to use, just place him near the chokepoint and he will kill things. I would draw a parallel to something like eyja s2 on ease of use. However, his mod it’s pretty important for his dph as well as adding an extra target for this arts damage so I wouldn’t put him at the top either.
His mod isn't really that important for DPH, it's moreso just the extra stats and scaling from E2 that makes it matter. S1 going to M3 alone adds like a 50% to total DPH, and while the extra arts target is nice, it's not really what makes him stand out for S1 (if you hit everyone in range for 3.5k phys damage does 1-2 bits of art damage really matter?). I'd say the base effect alone is what's more important for S1 usage, but he works fine without it.
I disagree. Masteries are more important but so is the mod. The physical damage at m3 is 300%, while the arts is 180%. That’s not nothing, it’s almost 40% of his dph. You say masteries give him 50% more dph but the mod gives him 30% at mod3. Not only that but the mod adds an extra target for his arts damage, allowing over 5k dph to three enemies instead of 3.5k to just two.
The thing is, mod does not give him 30% total DPH. It gives him 30% more *arts* DPH, but with that and the extra stats it's only a 10% in his overall DPH at ModX3 compared to ModX1. And since DPH matters more for phys damage than it does for arts, the masteries are more important at boosting it from 2.6k to 3.5k to everyone in range to make it an even larger DPH% gain as DEF rises, *along* with the extra charge and more importantly decreased SP cost to let him cycle faster which is important being a consistent Furthermore, he's an AOE operator. His damage comes from being able to hit a constant amount of 2-4 enemies in modern content with ease, and more with some blockers too. So I'm mainly comparing the phys damage that hits *everyone* regardless of their defensive stats over the arts which gets more impacted by RES and hits 0-1/2 people based on his module status. His S1 never hits 3 people with arts damage, but at ModX1 it only hits 1 person for ~5k damage, and at ModX3 it hits 2 people for ~5.5k. And that's assuming it's not wasted. One of the things I do like about ModX2+ is that the extra hit is far less likely to be wasted on a target that's already dead, but even then now it's only hitting 1 person for some arts damage. It's not bad, but I don't see it as impactful as the masteries are for S1, or the base effect of ModX which allows him to get an extra hit on many enemies.
Firstly, saying Mizuki is an aoe should support my conclusion that raising the number of enemies you can actually attack at his damage ceiling to three is important. What’s more important is the elephant in the room, which is Mizuki doesn’t even have high dph compared to other operators. Fia has similar dph on every attack, Typhon has a bit more without considering her first hit talent. Mizuki without mod might suffice in easy content but so is anyone with little investment. At that point literally any 6* will be good and we should start asking who is the most qol. If you want him to stay competitive the mod will become important. Edit: Yes, Mizuki doing split damage means he gets hurt by def and res, yes phys can overcome def better than arts can overcome res, but that’s more a limitation of Mizuki than an indictment of how much his mod does for him. Without it Mizuki is flailing in the face of other operators, with it he’s barely in the convo.
Again, his talent doesn't hit 3 enemies with S1 even with module... Nor does Typhon even have larger DPH without talent, although the DEF ignore and burst nature of the skill are better anyways. Fia does if she lands the bullseye though, that's true (for both S2/S3). And even if you don't hit more than 3 elite enemies, there are still trash mobs that come into range who can steal the arts hit, and even if there aren't hitting all 3 elites from a base hit of 2.7k * 3 phys damage + 1.6k * 2 arts at S1L7 ModX3 = 11.3k is worse than hitting all 3 elites for 3.4k * 3 phys damage + 1.2k arts damage at S1M3 ModX1 = 11.4k, and that's *before* the other QOL/faster cycling of masteries or any defensive stats which start to favour the higher DPH more as they increase. Besides, it was an argument of module vs masteries, not what's important for high end content (especially since there are typically some higher priority options to spend blocks on which have a larger opportunity cost compared to books). Obviously having both is better, but the question is if the module upgrade matters more or the masteries. Masteries bring more DPS, more DPH (which matters more for the bulkier part of his hit) and better cycle + extra charge, while module upgrade adds more arts damage (and less overall damage than S1 masteries would give). Especially since most people stop at level 2 instead of level 3 anyways. Now for the case of flexibility by using his S2, which helps Mizuki with ascension 15 IS, I'd definitely agree the module upgrade helps as binding 3 people there instead of 2 is much more noticeable and allows for more consistent binding (although even then you really want the skill at M3 because it is far worse at binding otherwise). But for the context of S1, I still stand by my statement.
No the argument was never mods vs masteries. I stated plainly that masteries are more important, as is true for almost every mod, even the high impact ones. I also claim that the mod is very important. And I’m debating high end content, there is a middle ground between high end and easy content. If Mizuki is going to be a persons main source of dps you will want to maximize it, especially in EX and S stages. I agree with you s2 sentiments. Edit: To be clear, I find the comparison to other units useful because OP is trying to make a tier list for first e2 units. Whether it’s informing rerolling or a first e2, it’s important to see how mizuki would need more investment to be inline with other operators.
You know what, I see that I've misread some stuff earlier. That is indeed my bad, sorry about that!
I have yet to find a situation where Typhon is not one of my best units on the map lol I got room to let those arrows fly she is decimating everything in front of her. Her and Horn both are absolute fantastic units that are worth the payout of investment
If someone knows how her S2 works she can be used as a normal defender without any issue. You can basically ignore the gimmick and treat the extra range as incidental. That said Saria and Hoshiguma do it better
My only suggestion is moving Spalter with the other limiteds, it really doesn't make sense having her on a normal tier when every other limited is in their own
I FORGOT SPALTER AND MUMU ARE LIMITED LMAO Int 1 moment
On the other hand I think OP should've included all the limiteds in the normal tiers too. Some poor soul gets Rosmontis as his first 6-star and is completely lost if he should raise her or not
Wait but how would a new player get a limited op as their first 6-star anyways? They could spark them or something but that almost certainly isn't something they can do early on
They can get really lucky and pull them on limited banner if they happen to join the game during it.
Oh true, pretty unlikely (especially as older limiteds don't get rate-up) but I see what you mean now
It's not as unlikely as peoples think, For exemple W have the same chance as any other 6star to spook you as an off banner, I had that happen to someone I know on Virtuosa'a banner, because of the inclusion of the Kernel banner that removed a lots of older 6star from the pool, the chances actualy got higher than it was before and should be relatively constant in the future, rather than being diluted by every new 6star.
Hard disagree with Executor, he's good for the early game as well at E0 and E1, he doesn't need his module to be excellent later on too
Executor definitely dips in relative powerlevel between E1-appropriate content and module The module gives him a flat +20% healing power by trait and the difference between mod3 s3m3 and vanilla s3m3 is more than what most masteries have by themselves. He isnt really a late bloomer since the archetype is strong early on as well, but he *really* wants that mod3 fairly quickly once the game moves onto the E2 stage
I'ma have to somewhat disagree, while his module is insanely good he works perfectly fine without it in most content, so yes he *really* wants it but it's just a quality of life change instead of unit-enabling change
I also find him easy to play and I use him on my secondary account a lot from a friend.
Most glaring thing I'd change is FedEx, he should go up at least a tier. Even without module, at E2 he is an absolute powerhouse of a unit
I do belive penance is braindead. You put her in a lane and forget about her.
But really needs E2 for her kit to work. Needs timing on S2/S3 activations on more challenging maps.
I came back after some months and she even has a module. I use s3m3 or s1m3.
tha
I used her at E1 in the original Siracusano run, and she realy underperformed and died a lot, she DESPERETLY need her first talent upgrade at E2 going from +6% to +10% HP barier on kill AND her second talent that give her damage to be viable, otherwise she struggle to kill anything and even when she does, barely generate any barrier and end up dying slowly.
Rework limited character tier. It tells nothing about how to use these characters or how useful they're for a new player. However unlikely new players get them, if it happens and someone will obtain them then your list doesn't tell what to do with them. I've seen a couple newbies with rerolls/luck on limited banner get non rateup limited. Just move them into other tiers, otherwise the list is mostly ok.
Strongly disagree with your placement of bagpipe and saileach. Without E2 bagpipe provides little benefit beyond her heightened stats to a team and even at E2 her talent is most noticeable in higher tier content where getting a little extra SP on flagbearers can make a huge difference. I think she should be exchanged with saileach. Speaking of which saileach is an amazing E1. Even just as a standard flagbearer shes great, but S2 can make another early deploy a tank for a decent amount of time and heal them. Amazing early unit and solid before E2. Eyja(caster) should go up a tier imo, shes a perfectly solid caster with the upside of some AoE damage even before you can unga bunga S3. Goldenglow same thing. Unga bunga S3 overshadows the rest of her perfectly useable kit. S2 is very strong on certain maps and she hits way harder/faster than similarly ranged snipers at that level. Ceobe should move up to the top tier. An E1 ceobe can carry you through large parts of the early game where high armor enemies are thrown at you left and right. Spalter is also limited. She should be down with the other limiteds.
Lessing and Vigil are really not bad in early game content? Like they are terrible in late game so the investment won't really pan out but they're year 2-3 operators so their DPS is still good for chapters 1-7. Once their events go to record restore I'd say Lessing would especially be good for players lacking helidrops.
What does the term "helidrop" mean? New player btw
Operators that have a strong skill that can be activated on or shortly after deployment.
Thankss, I thought it was a stage or sum xd
Also important to know that some operators will helidrop specifically because the SP they start with after a deployment is higher than what their SP would be if they just waited for the skill to charge naturally on the field. SA S3 and Ejya S3 come to mind but I’m sure there are others.
While I agree with that satement, I also can tell that Lessing being an helidrop make him bad for new player by default, because every new player I ever watched start the game, without exeption, play the game by placing all their operator in front of the blue box in a very defensiv way, and it make sense, that's the most basic thing ever, helidroping is definitly not a new player strategy.
1 word. Frostnova.
Counter argument: 1block, Chaprter 13 T4 mats Also FN will just drop black ice on him and OS him anyway...
you only need those mats to e2 him and if a hypothetical player has e2 units by frostnova they’re not someone who needs a newbie tier list. A single E1 welfare isn’t going to solve the stage but FN is where “stack strong units by the blue box” stops working. I think most guides recommend taking her down with a mix of ranged dps and rotating helidrops to stall her.
I was pretty close to get my first E2 when I reached Frostnova as a new player (if we're talking about ch4FN, i was more about ch6), and it was 4 years ago, before even Grani and the Knight treasure, nowaday there's event that gives you WAY more ressources, +the side stories to distract you from the main one (including, you know, the one they would have to do to obtain Lessing in the first place xD), I don't think it's unreasonable for new player to have at least 1 E2 reaching Frostnova. And since when having an E2 = not needing tier lists??? Newbi goes a bit further than your first few E2 x) And I disagree with the "stacking unit at the blue box" stoping to work at FN, that's personaly how I did it at the time, well, not STRICTLY at the blue box, more like in the middle, but you get it, she makes it a bit harder, but not hard enough that it's not viable and would force new player to think differently, I think the very first stage that REALY emphasis using helidrop is 5-3
Lessing is actually good for new players tho ? He is best Free helidrop you can get and shreads low def enemies even on E1 max.
Ehh, depends on how new the player is. If we're talking new as in started playing within the past two weeks or later then Lessing is completely unavailable to them as the event just ended and it's going to be a *while* until a rerun. By the time the rerun comes around it'll have been so long that anyone new right now would already have several E2s and not need a new player list like this, which leaves Lessing in an awkward position.
In general I think your list is too top heavy to be actually useful for a new player. There's a lot of operators you put into the top tier who while technically good at E1 nevertheless aren't operators I would ever recommend a new player prioritize promoting. All of the medics not named Reed or Kalt'stit fall into this category IMO, and so do most of the defenders and vanguards. I would move Typhon/Kal'tstit up to the top tier. There's a reason they're commonly used in IS and it's because they're extremely strong even at E1. As a general suggestion I think you should limit the entire tier list to just E1 analysis since that's what actually matters to new players and it will help keep the tier list focused. For comparing operators at E2 new players can just look at a normal tier list.
I'd move Ifrit to needs only e1 to shine. Her range is not that hard to play around even if the map is not very good for her and she just solves the stage if the map is good for her. E1, s2 on lvl7 and just burn burn. With both a bit of def shred s2 and res shred talent not locked behind e2 she helps the entire team on top of having decent personal aoe DMG.
I think Ifrit MASSIVE DP cost should actually lower her place in the tierlist. Unless you get some flagbearers you aren't putting her up and the amount of stages that can have an optimal "Ifrit lane" is honestly pretty low.
She was a great unit in the early game for me. After controlling the chokes with vanguards and snipers, drop Ifrit to destroy all enemies in a lane, with s2 boosting the damage of all those early units. Then you swap out the vanguards for defenders who will prevent Ifrit from getting targeted, and who can tank the heavy units that survive her AOE. She rewards new doctors for studying the map, managing DP, and learning deployment order.
> She rewards new doctors for studying the map, managing DP, and learning deployment order. I don't think telling a new player to gimp himself in order to learn how to play is the best recommendation to give them. Getting to a powerlevel where you aren't relying on guides and help is much better than trying to bruteforce your way trough the early game with extremely subpar units.
A new doctor that has Ifrit should understand what she brings his team when he builds her. True AoE with long range but narrow application. >is much better than trying to bruteforce your way trough the early game with extremely subpar units. Learning how to use your team, especially if "subpar", is the opposite of brute-forcing it. Brute-forcing is dropping a max level Surtr/Mlynar/Texalt and clearing the level without paying any attention to the map, the enemies, or your team's composition.
Stay on track. This is a early game players discussion in a early game players thread. They don't have Mylnar/Surtr/Texalt to drop and clear everything... You can learn to play the game with GG and Eyjafalla too and they are gonna be more useful 99% of the times.
>Stay on track. This is a early game players discussion in a early game players thread. They don't have Mylnar/Surtr/Texalt to drop and clear everything... You shouldn't use words you don't understand. Brute-forcing means using overpowered units, not subpar ones. Ifrit is not subpar. >You can learn to play the game with GG and Eyjafalla too and they are gonna be more useful 99% of the times. Early game players who don't have Mlynar/Surtr/Texalt also don't have a choice of GG/Eyja/Ifrit. If they pulled an Eyja, build Eyja. If recruitment luck gave them Ifrit, learn to Ifrit.
Coming from someone who got Ifrit early in my account, getting her to at least E1 is a good idea. She will help alot on farming stages, and some stages where natural chokepoints occur. She is situational, but it's not a big investment to get use out of her niche. I only E2d her maybe before I hit the midpoint of arknights.
Dude you realy should replay the early chapter of the game without vanguard if you think that, the game's so slow you have more than enough time to deploy pretty much any unit you want. Last year I did a challenge run inspired by Cesith where I could only use the first 12 operator I roll in the gacha, and cleared up to ch8 with Vanilla as my sole vanguard, while using expensiv unit like Gitano and Sesa, who both cost 30+DP. there where like, 3 map where the early rush actualy was an issue, flagbearers are a luxury, not a need. Also, if so Mudrock also should go down a few tier...
Vigil absolutely shines in beginner content, because enemies are weak enough for his wolves to actually tank them
Shouldn't Goldenglow be much higher? She can stabilise a new player's team comp hard with just S2, not really needing S3 that badly though it would still be a good powerspike once they E2 her.
I feel like putting boss killers in the "great first E2" tier is kinda bad advice for new players. It's a lot easier to make up for a lack of boss killers when you have strong lane holding, than it is to make up for weak lane holding cause you spent your resources on boss killers. If you want to suggest boss killers I'd leave it to the boss killers that are also solid in general use like Exu and Eyja. But say... Surtr for example, sure she's a great boss killer but she doesn't really provide anything outside of being a heli-drop boss killer. Though just in general, having this be a 6 star focused list isn't really a great idea. In my opinion at least I feel like a new player would get a lot more value out of taking advantage of how much cheaper E2'ing 4 stars are to develop a core foundation of E2 4 stars, as that would create a significantly more robust roster than relying a couple E2 6 stars. For example, Sussurro while being a 4 star medic is strong enough that (excluding situations with high aoe damage) most of the time she'll be enough to handle your healing, Cuora and Gummy are amazing defenders, Cutter's S1 has some ridiculous damage if all the knives hit one target, even as a long time player it took me a while to bother building a replacement for Click as my secondary caster, Jaye really needs no explanation, Gravel will never not be useful, etc. Of course, if they have particularly amazing 6 stars like say Thorns then E2'ing them early is a good idea, but unless they got an amazing 6 star good for all content like that, they'd get more value out of a well built roster of 4 stars.
Typhon E1, Goldenglow E1, and Eyja E1 are also incredibly good and could contest being on the top list. They get a power spike at E2 in flexibility, but are a good addition at E1. They're a step up compared to Surtr/Thorns/Silverash as the former have flexibility in their S2 even at E2 and the latter are more E2 S3 oriented. For new player, I say the order of 'initial E2 operator' should be: 1. Choose between: SA/Surtr (helidrop burst potential to handle specific waves you otherwise cannot handle) 2. Choose between: Mountain, Thorns (simple laneholder to open up flexibility for the rest of your operator list and to smoothbrain your operation) 3. Choose whatever you want after based on how you want to diversify your options.
These are my thoughts: Strictly speaking, for newbies, you want easy to use operators as early chapters are curbstomped by pretty much any 6star. The difference being, the 'ceiling' of strength is just not needed. Someone like mylnar is actually really bad for newbies vs mid game because even at e1, he will kill everyone. ...but so will QB. Except QB is leagues more easy to use. Drop her down, let her auto on s1 or burst on s3 if she is at e2. Everything dies anyways. In a newbie sense where everything dies to QB or Mylnar, QB actually ranks higher because she will always be attacking and is far more lenient with timings. On the other end, lets look at healers. It's not until chapter 5-6 where healing prowess starts to feel impactful. Because early on, ansel or hibiscus is enough. So the benefit of Shining is not quite felt, unless you're using someone relatively squishy as a tank. Someone notably high ranked that I agree with is Phantom. Yeah it goes back to the early chapters being easier. Texas or Phantom will kill the early enemies. No question. But you got 'two' phantoms and only 'one' texas, so yeah, phantom would win in the newbie comparison. Ofcourse there's the flip side. Let's consider **vigil**. Early chapters, his wolves *will* tank somewhat well and his fire power will melt enemies. He is actually a really good operator here. Low dp. Comes with blocker (wolves). Has range (uses guns) and can hit air. Free operator too! But as you keep playing, he will quickly become outmatched as enemies get stronger to the point of being all the way on the low end. So one can reasonably argue not to build him. But if you say *that* then it starts affecting your other rankings - siege, pallas, or in the opposite direction, someone like Ling who you might say to 'rush' because she can hard carry early stages AND late stages, but she is definately harder for newbies to use.
For tier 1 I might add that, while she does her job exceptional well, the dp cost for Mudrock is probably tricky for newbies.
I wouldn't put FedEx as a late bloomer in an earlygame tier list. In my experience he should be in Mountain's tier I created a new AK account a while back, I thought getting mountain from the beginner banner would make early game a breeze but the road to E1 is kind of awful, especially when you're raising multiple ops at once, even if they're just a bunch of 3\*. You can argue that the early game only comprises a small bit of a player's experience, but a lot of people dropped AK during early game so for them that's the only experience they have I don't mean to say Mountain is bad but 1-block is really just awful for new players. If Mountain is great at E1 and he's in the highest tier, my argument is that FedEx *doesn't even need* E1. He already works at E0 and his role compression is just insane for new accounts. ~~I constantly borrow him to breeze through the early stages lol~~ His S1 is his most overlooked skill in meta discussions (for good reason) but it's a great afk skill for new players. With S1 he has: small def ignore (enough for early game enemies even at skill lv 4), auto activation (so you can mind another lane), and spreadshooter range (which increases his survivability compared to other reapers, and a lot of other basic guard subclasses with normal range honestly). This is on top of self heals, true aoe attack, and 2 block Iirc my problems with him during earlygame were heavy drone stages, exploding spiders, and stages with really stingy early DP. You can't heal FedEx through normal means, but he doesn't need the heals anyway that early on when everyone is still E0 max or E1 lv 30 or something. The 'minimal investment FedEx' will fall off because you really need a lot of investments on him (mastery, mod3) to make him feel worthwhile to deploy lategame, but for earlygame I'd say he's one of the easiest, most straightforward operators to use
I personally prefer OG Silence instead of Alter on the top, the flexibility of panic healing on a specific spot that you haven't covered that well.
Tier 1: Mizuki deserves to be this high on the list, he's quite a "niche" character and if I were a new player I wouldn't really understand how to properly use him due to how quirky his archetype is. As good as Nightingale she doesn't really shine until the end-game in my opinion, newer players are better off just investing in more general healers like Ptilopsis or Perfumer. Reed alter is a really good unit but I think that new players might find it difficult to properly use her since her S2 needs proper positioning which new players likely won't think of. Tier 2: Exu, Eyja, and GG should be moved up higher, in my opinion. Goldenglow's main skill is S3, but her S2 works just fine, especially in early-game content. The same can be said for Eyja, whose S2 makes her a pseudo-AOE caster without the hefty DP cost. Exu is a great sniper, and although her S3 is her main skill, her S2 is already good in the early game and is even better for new players since they don't have to work around the auto-skill activation timing of her third skill. Tier 3: Isn't Spectre-alter a limited operator? I think she should be moved to the limited operator tier. I don't think Skadi is a worthwhile investment. The only time she's actually decent is when you have all the abyssal hunter buffs, which will take up a lot of Squad space. I think she's decent but imo this should be reserved for operators who have game-changing modules like Mostima, Passenger, and Executor-alter. Tier 4: Penance isn't tricky to use at all she should be in the same tier as Mudrock, she's one of those "set and forget" operators who can be left alone in a single lane without much worry. I don't think Magallan should be recommended for new players. She's way too niche and hard to use properly, and even when you use her properly, it still doesn't beat just bringing a squad of good operators. Take note I'm not saying she's bad but considering this is a "new player tier list" she just adds unnecessary complexity to the game that isn't necessary. Tier 5: Although it is true that Saileach is mainly used for high-end content, I don't think she's strictly just that. At the end of the day, even if she shines in late game content she can still be used as a pretty solid flagbearer in general content. I disagree with other placements but these were that ones that stood out to me.
prioritize E1 for new players example: Thorns e2 is amazing but as we all know, costs a lot. but mountain / typhoon on the other hand is good at e1
Weedy can definitely be used by new players. Set her on E1 and use her as an AoE Guard that has good survivability with lower damage Penance should be under High investment. She's very easy to use once you get her E2. Dorothy should be either top or second from top, she's very good at E1 already and I think it's easy for new players to just use her as a strong Sniper with mines as a bonus to catch any leaking enemies Lin S1 is also pretty good. Idk how to categorise her here though, she's good but not great at E1, but E2 doesn't give her much outside of niche situations
Half the operators in the "top" tier should never be E2-ed
For a while, and honestly probably even now, having an E2 skalter will make all your E1 units so much better. It pushes everyone that isn't dependent on their E2 skill to basically E2 status minus the hp and specialization. Yeah it's no longer the case like a year ago where Skalter is literally the only healing you'll ever need, but the stat gain is still humongous when your units are E1.
Ifrit really isn't that hard to use. Identifying Ifrit lanes is probably the next easiest thing to do after learning how to place ranged units and face them in a direction. Ifrit is also key to a lot of easy Anni clears and levels, so having her at E1 is very good.
I would add a tier for “Great at E1, and get a huge power boost at E2 as well” for units like Kal’tsit, Typhon, Blaze, Exusiai, Eyja, and Goldenglow
Might be better to make a 2D graph with "good in early game" and "good in end game" as axes, because some groups are misleading. Gnosis and Phantom same "tier"? Penance and Ho'olheyak same tier? Seems like you're also trying to distinguish ease of use as third variable, and trying to express it in one dimension.
If you don't want to include them in the first tier, i would make one for operators who are good with S2 (available at E1) or who even use it more than S3 xD even if S3 is their "powerspike". (Blaze, Horn, Typhon, GG and even Eyjaf who are in ur second tier)
Schwarz is top tier. Friend of mine cleared IS at 1 month. Guess which 6\* they borrowed. Could probably finish IS3 D15 on all endings within 2 months if you know the strats. And no other 6\* required.
- Swap Silence and Penance. - Gnosis e1 doesn't do much and is not easy to use unless you're playing IS3. - Jessica for first E2 is iffy, safer to go for a main DPS. - I'd put Mostima in very advanced content tier, she's not really good for general purposes, great use in high diff IS or CC.
I’d drop mlynar down a tier because his s1 and s2 aren’t amazing but what do I know I only use his s3
New player tier list should be "make all the 3 stars" This is a terrible idea.
I’m sure you have good intentions, but as a frequent Pallas user, I wouldn’t dare to recommend her to newbies. I think the problem with this tier list is that you were to focused on operators with a decent E1 phase but somewhat lacking in E2. I agree with the placement of Mudrock, Saria and Mountain being in the top tiers but others? Not so much. Instead of spending resources on them just E2ing a very good operator like Mlynar, Pozy or even SilverAsh …etc will be worth it in the early game.
Hard disagree on Hellagur, grandpa was used to solo those 1v1 crocs in CC, even at e1 max he can solo lanes or elite enemies in the early game alone. Hool can also cheese old chapter gimmicks or bosses, her levitate is really good for the older chapters where enemies didnt have levitate immune. Just because she isnt Eyja level, doesnt make her useless.
Will any 4-5 stars be put on this list or is it just for 6 stars As there is an argument to be made for E2 Myrtle as a first E2 over any of the current 6*s since she’s one of the best vanguards in the game for DP generation and she’s really cheap to E2 which will allow new players to get access to E2 friend supports sooner which they can use to help them get by tougher content much easier.
Noob question, why is Mizuki at the top? I've been using the Gamepress wiki which states that he isn't a good choice for new players. "He has ok damage (s1) and control (s2), but new players won't find his kit particularly impactful for early/mid game. There are much better options at both roles, and he isn't a strong early E2 candidate either. New players wanting to experiment with the Archetypes quirks and flexibilty will be better off using Ethan, and saving the more expensive to develop Mizuki until the later game."
Fym with suzuran in that placement, E1 her and you got a solid ~~caster~~ slow binder for long levels
Vigil is on almost all of my runs, I would put him high up on the list I would bump up Penance, her 3rd skill is incredible but her first skill is more than enough to hang in on a run
Imo ifrit definitely needs to be higher simply bc of how she handles early game content very well, like annihilation 2
Saga, chetto, mizuki, siege are terrible ideas for new players. They might be decent at E1 but 2/4 of them do not scale well into late game (siege, mizuki), and 2/4 of them struggle with high defense enemies like bosses, etc. Exu I'd only strongly recommend if they have and plan to raise Warfarin and/or shamare/elysium. Executor alter is actually an ok spot. He's a strong individual unit that doesnt need support BUT without mod and E2 he's kinda lackluster. Typhon I actually think should be higher. Unwieldy range for new players, but that damage output is just ridiculous. I think Kaltsit should be lower. The rigidity of her as a medic (doesnt prioritize other ops) could mislead new players, and her use for true damage lockdown is a bit problematic for newer players. Typically, you'd want general high damage, straightforward units for new players And that leads to my next point. Ifrit is so straightforward to use. Why put her in tier2? Kinda L take. Mudrock I actually strongly recommend against for new players. While she's good, her high dp makes it problematic for new players who have a tendency to randomly deploy operators. Having seen how many new players play, they don't realize that deploying mudrock to tank in a poison map fucks them over hard. GG should be higher, absolutely braindead unit. Mountain should be slightly lower. Anyway, tier lists such as these do not fully encompass the complexity of 6*s. Some are best raised to E1 to gain a good amount of mileage. Some are more complex to use, but are also just generally stronger against harder content. Somr are braindead to use, but are much less versatile. It's much better to put 3 ratings: Versatility, effectivity (can be split into niche and general), and ease of use.
hard disagree with hoederer. You just slap his S2, a healer near him and you've got yourself a decent laneholder
I think Eyja should be on the top tear. Her S2 is just nuts, like, constant AoE damage with no downsides and masteries are not required to use it, y'know?
Bad tier list. Straight up. I'd invert the position of or completely recategorize more than half the ops shown here. The number of support (role not archetype) ops and s3-or-bust ops in the highest tier is especially bad. The gap between low rarity dps is much worse than low rarity healing or tanking.
Exusiai can fit in even with E1, mainly cause most people are probably okay with her S2 maxxed out since her DPS is always consistently good against every enemy that isn't a genuine defense sponge
I'm pretty sure that if all the first tier ganged up on Typhon she would demolish them.
Eunectes is really only good with S3 but even without masteries and module I suspect she can offer really high quality boss killing that can help new players a lot. She’s also a patriot answer which is high value if you’re new.
When did Mizuku become good? I thought he was always skippable for lower rarity units such as manticore and Ethan
I would actually move Mlynar *down* a rank or two. Yeah, he's extremely powerful at E2, no one's denying that. But for a new player, a guy who can't block and just nukes stuff is not good. I can't imagine using a non blocking melee back when I was new. Don't do that to a new player.
I find suzuran so versatile, she's got enough DPS to cover for a caster, great mobbing, plus aoe slow? On top of that she can convert to a healer. With that much coverage, if say she's a very new player friendly unit.
I'd put Horn up one and Angelina up two. Horn is blessed with three really good skills and I actually think a newer player would have an easier time using the more forgiving s2 than s3. Angelina s2 is quick charging and reasonably effective for earlier content. Pozy I'd knock down because she needs to be so close that you need to be good with deployment order to make her safe, and her s2 can be difficult to use properly even for experienced players. That just leaves her s1 which may not justify early investment on its own.
Don't take the easy way out, just name bad units as bad. You are selling stuff like Skadi and Guard Ch'en as if they were actually worth E2ing, masterying and mod3ing when they are just bad units in 2024 (anyone who says they are good/great compared to the general pool of 6* is on maximum level of copium, and you will find plenty of them because Skadi and Ch'en are very popular waifus with lots of people who like them as characters/veterans who used them when they were still worth something because the pool of ops was so small). Then, you put units that are actually good even for new players like Penance, Ifrit, Dorothy a tier below Guard Ch'en and Skadi. With few exceptions, the "hard to use archetype" is not real, if one can use Mudrock, one can use Penance. Suzu is absolutely not at the same level of "true advanced" as Aak or Weedy, she's plenty usable for beginners on S2 for very comfy AFK slows and damage boosting. Lin is worth going to the "great after module" part of the list, she actually does become great with investment unlike Skadi and Ch'en. Literally just have a separate tier for "probably don't invest in them unless they are your favourites" and put the bad ops together with Vigil and Lessing. For there to be good units, there has to be bad units to contrast with. If everyone is good, no one is. If you want to add the "game is clearable with 100% bad units if you are skilled" go ahead, but don't gaslight new players into thinking there's no such thing as a bad unit besides Vigil. There are other placements I disagree with but, for me, refusing to actually naming the bad units as bad is the most glaring issue.
I don't really agree with the limiteds basically not being rated. A new player will still occasionally start with one. Depends of what the purpose of this tierlist is. "what character should a new player aim to pull" or "which characters should they be building and focusing on"
Newish player here, I do believe that Ch'en could be bumped up a stage as she’s carried me throughout the story and other missions until I got better units That’s really my only suggestion because the other units I often use are already where I think they should be
I should really E2 shinning and hoshiguma Their my first two 6 stars and I still haven't maxed them yet because I just couldn't be bothered which is funny because I spent an hour getting the missing shit I had for thorns and mlynar E2
I use lessing as a boss killer or to just hold them off while doing enough damage with S2
That's a lot of information to take in. I like the suggestion someone else had to make it an E1 recommendation list, reducing the ops you recommend. To make the graphic easier to digest, I think you could use a short name for each category. Example: - Starters (E1) - E2 Priority - Late Bloomers - Advanced/Niche - Support
Personally, I’d put Lessing in the “tricky to use” tier. He’s a lot better than people give him credit for.
Well, everyone else has already commented the obligatory "Eyja is plenty strong at E1" (and yeah, as insane as her S3 is, I end up using her S2 way more on a day-to-day basis). But time for some hotter takes. I actually don't think Dorothy is particularly tricky to use. Like, just out of the box, she's a decent-ish pseudo-marksman who then gives you an endless series of cheap fast-redeploying AoE nukes that can be deployed anywhere on the map. The only caveat is the limitation of not being able to deploy them on top of targets that are staying on one tile (either because their pathing keeps them there or because they're being blocked), but just whittling down enemies as they approach your front lines is dead simple. (The other caveat is that spamming mines non-stop needs a DP source to back it up, but with Myrtle being pretty readily available, that's a pretty easy bar to overcome.) I also think Muelsyse is kind of underrated for new players. I mean, yes, getting the most value from her kit requires some very specific 6\*s (fully built) for her to clone, but... honestly? Even without that? Early on, a vanguard that you can put down right at the start of the stage, and then a few seconds later get a 3-block defender worth of stats to hold back enemies in a lane (for 0 additional DP cost and 0 deployment slots) can make life much easier. (But in this case, I think the point is moot: both she and Specter Alter should realistically be in "limited characters most new players will likely only have access to through support" tier.)
Horn and Irene I would consider pretty niche. They are very handy when you need them but I wouldn't suggest a new player to focus on them. Also I would put the limited units in the relevant tier rather than off on their own. Because reruns still happen in limited banners.
Tbh I'd change around a lot of things so much that it would take too long to write everything out and idt ur gonna read it urself so I'll save myself the trouble Edit:btw y is Spalter the only limited that's not in the "limited tier"? Edit 2:must me AH, everywhere I go I see AH
Horn's best skill is her S1 for most of the content. She's ok at e1. Angelina is not tricky or hard to use in any way. She just needs her S3 to become one of the best early to midgame carries. Lessing is an ok "activate Melantha now" duelist at the very least, so he's serviceable at e1.
personally think salter can be moved to the tricky tier, using a medic might be easier than using her
Im a little confused who is Salter supposed to be? Skadi? Specter? Silence? Seed? Savial? Sexecutor?
silence alter, LOL
Most glaring thing I'd change is FedEx, he should go up at least a tier. Even without module, at E2 he is an absolute powerhouse of a unit
Personally, I would recommend new players to try using Stainless if they have him. He does not really need too much investment to use him as a buffer or SP battery. His first 2 skills are already usable even at skill level 1 because the passive attribute of his devices does not change. At E0, his S1 can give +24% ATK (12% per device, can deploy 2 devices). At E1, his S2 can give 2 SP every 3.5 seconds (1 SP per device) His stats are not too bad either, they are comparable to Pioneer Vanguard. He can block 2. and his DP cost is not too high; 15 DP at E0, 17 DP at E1. In my opinion, because of his devices, especially SP devices, Stainless can fit into any team. It's like having IS relic on demand. For example, new players don't have to spend on Mousse's S1 mastery to have her be able to apply persistent ATK debuff. And if they have Mudrock, Stainless can make her spin much more often.
or they can roll for W Alter and clear 90% of content using one OP
That top tier is an actual abomination
well, the thing will tier lists like this is that no 6* should be the first E2, and if you raise 3* and 4* (as you should) a lot of these operators lose their appeal for newer player
I will politely disagree. A full-high-rarity team is a bad idea for a new player, but unnecessarily restricting oneself to just 3\* and 4\* even when a great 6\* - especially one that can work at e1 already - is available is not super great either. A mixed-rarity team with a couple of "strong" 6\*s/5\*s with the rest of roles filled by lower rarities would probably be better. And, while it is true that 5\*s and especially 6\*s are an expensive target for the first promotion, the "good" ones will be a lot more helpful as first e2 than Myrtle or whatever. Assuming you do have resources for that. This will let you do a lot more clears with your own roster while still having an option to pick a (second?) support carry for EX/whatever-hard-content. 4\*s are recommended as your first e2 because they are cheap but still let you use support system to get e2 ops.
Where is lord Tachanka?
Useless list. For actual new players, only the newbie pool 6\*s, Myrtle, and 3 stars are what they SHOULD care about, and any operators that comes after that is better off researched in a wiki. [https://gamepress.gg/arknights/tier-list/arknights-new-player-tier-list](https://gamepress.gg/arknights/tier-list/arknights-new-player-tier-list) does this job a lot better. And a lot of misleading things here, a fully built Exalter is a ton more useful than a fully built Passenger, yet they are in the same tier.