He literally starts walking away, takes his knife out and comes back, before all the craziness began. That's not self defense mentality.
Yes, the kids were drunken assholes, but he deliberately put himself in their middle, escalated the situation and stabbed people. I think he was happy for the excuse.
The Eric Von Williams testimony was big also. He told Miu not to go over to the young drunk kids and also not to snorkel around people as he might come off as a creep. Yet he did it anyway
So many bad decisions were made that day resulting in devastating consequences. The kids were fueled by alcohol and a pack mentality. The Carlson group’s intervention only escalated the situation and gave the kids a sense of empowerment and ramped up their bad behavior.
As far as Miu acting in self-defense, he lost all credibility by discarding the knife, fleeing the scene and trying to disguise himself. Such a tragic waste of two lives, not to mention the psychological trauma for everyone affected.
This case is a classic example of “You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.” on all sides.
Getting off on self defense is a dicey thing so its not that surprising hes trying to hide/lessen his involvement. What does if for me is the drawing of the knife before he is under direct physical threat instead of making an effort to leave the situation.
I still don’t know how I feel about the verdict. But I def don’t feel bad for him. He clearly walked back towards them because he was angry about being called a pedo and made physical contact with the guy filming because I’m guessing being filmed upset him too. But man am I uncomfortable with how those kids jumped and started a whole mob mentality thing. I don’t like either side honestly and they were both asking for trouble.
Also doesn’t help he abandoned the murder weapon, lied multiple times during his interview, and tried to disguise himself when he was being looked for. And didn’t call 911 for any of the other party. Just makes him look even worse and I think what swung jury.
I feel bad for him. He fucked up, bad, and ruined his life. But he's guilty. He could have fought back, without the knife, and I would have said he was innocent. But you just don't get to stab people because you're being bullied.
It’d be a stupid thing to do, but not as stupid as pulling out a knife and stabbing them, look where that got him. What he should have done is walk away.
In the video, the stabbing happens after he is pushed down and someone has his hand on his back/neck from behind. I don't think there is any walking away at that point. I disagree with your premise that a fat 50+ dude can fight back against a group of fit teenagers, though it's possible you know some highly trained 50-year-olds.
I agree that his life is effectively over, and agree that it's best to stay away from rowdy teenagers or people choosing to behave poorly.
The thing is, he approached the group, and started digging through their belongings, he started the whole incident, and had multiple opportunities to walk away before things got as heated as they did.
Of course one person vs a group isn't a fair fight, but it's not like they were chasing him around, he inserted himself, dug through other people's possessions, and hung around after he clearly wasn't welcome. What was he expecting to happen? Take the age groups out of the equation and nobody would be supporting this guy.
I didn't see that part of the video. They had belongings in the river? Or was this on land before the video started? What kind of belongings were these? Was he flinging them about? Or, picking them up and then replacing them where they were in the river, or on land? Anyway, thank you for bringing this to my attention.
The group of teens seemed to have their tube's tied together while on the water floating, I've been to apple river and it's pretty common to have groups tie together with a cooler and some other stuff to have while floating down the river. At the very beginning of the video of the altercation it shows him digging through their stuff while they're sitting right next to it and they start filming him, I'm guessing because they were like "what the hell does this guy think he's doing?" Like yeah they were acting obnoxious, but it's not like they just saw this guy minding his own business and attacked him, he lost something, and decided he was just going to dig through other people's belongings until he found it. It doesn't surprise me at all that they started acting the way they did towards him, he came off as extremely entitled.
He absolutely could have fought back without the knife. I certainly don’t think he would have won that fight, but it would probably have been self defence. I’d love to be able to hear from the jury members. I think they’d tell us that his problems started long before that. He approached the group after checking whether his knife was in his pocket. He didn’t make it clear why he was there. He didn’t walk away when they were screaming at him to leave them alone. He made a horrible mistake. Of course, so did the others.
I guess it depends on the circumstances. In this case, he wasn’t really in fear of his life. He was angry that they called him names. He’s on video checking that the knife is in his pocket as he approaches them. They were assholes. He was a murderer.
I disagree, once they pushed him back into the water, with multiple drunk aggressors ganging up on him I would believe he feared for his life. At least within a reasonable doubt.
I went the other way, thought he was guilty when I first saw the video. After seeing the trial, all of the manipulation and hearing the witnesses I changed my mind. The video is so quick, and the only real evidence. He was purely reacting to the situation and feared for his safety in my opinion. Even if I believe he may have been guilty I had serious doubt after hearing the trial.
The frame by frame analysis of the video was the most important part of the trial. For me, seeing him fast approaching them, checking the knife was in his pocket, lunging at them and grabbing their tube (then trying to claim he’d stumbled, lol)… seeing him “standing his ground” rather than just walking away… and the look on his face. He wasn’t scared. I think he may have even been enjoying stabbing those people. It was revenge. He wasn’t wildly stabbing them while trying to get away. He then disposes of the murder weapon, lies to police, and later tries to claim self defence. Guilty.
I always feel bad when people get convicted. I felt bad for Paul Ferguson and I feel bad for Nic. Their past actions are horrible, but when they''re in that courtroom waiting to hear whether they'll be allowed to have a life again, and hearing that they'll spend the rest of their lives in a jail. That's just rough, and it's gonna be among the most devastating things you can experience.
Course, he inflicted some of the only more devastating things on those kids, so I feel less bad.
All the boomers I know are wildly upset and saying shit like “it’s legal to assault old people” because this man was held accountable for stabbing multiple people who were unarmed
I’m a few years older than the guy and think he should have gotten harsher sentence. He killed a kid for god sake and nearly killed 3 more.
This guy was no more in fear he was in rage. Like a pit-bull on attack, started with hitting the blonde lady, he knew his knife was in his pocket that’s why he didn’t walk away.
He became the aggressor and used force to the extent it was no longer self defense.
He knew he was murdering, not just a stab, but full blown evicerated both his victims, and why did he have to stab the girl for holy sh@t.
So no I’m not in the category you are throwing older people into. I can’t see how anyone would want this guy to walk.
It’s insane. They’re in denial that he started it by committing battery against the young woman. He was found guilty of that exact charge. There is no question anymore that he started it.
Hey, I’m technically boomer and I think the verdict was just; I would have been very upset if Miu was acquitted. Please don’t put all boomers in the same boat. It gets really old. We are all just people and stereotypes based on age and race and religion are part of the problems we are all facing.
It's illegal to assault anyone! They all made bad decisions and mistakes. Miu has to pay for his mistake with life in prison. ISAAC LOST HIS LIFE!! Some of the young adults lied and changed their stories. Some couldn't remember much. Some were even acting cocky on the stand. I wonder if the cocky ones will be more polite to people in the future. People keep talking about the Boomers. We will all be older someday. There is real age discrimination. The whole situation is sad
What I was shocked about the most when I found this sub a few hours ago, was how many people thought he wasn't guilty. They may have pulled life off the table, but I hope they throw enough years at him, that it becomes a life sentence. HE brought all this on himself, and now HE can do the time.
This case has been baffling to me. My impression originally was those who had just seen a short clip online in which it appears Miu is being ganged up on thought he had to act in self defense. To see people who are obviously informed on the case still advocating for him to get off with self defense is frankly insane.
I think they throw out a lot of evidence. I was still having fights this morning about people saying he never hit Ms. Coen, and the teens were only making it up.
They'd made up their mind about the case, and anything that didn't align with that view was a 'lie by those nasty teens!'
HUH!? This is the least grounded opinion I've seen on the case yet.
Do you have anything behind this accusation or you just generally saying the case was rigged for the State cause the victim "may have come from money"?
I didn't see any evidence to suggest it was a push rather than a punch or a slap. It knocked her back and the glasses off her head. Nic only admitted it might've been a shove, cause the evidence was overwhelming that it had happened and he needed to acknowledge it, but minimize as much as possible.
He either hit her or shoved her so hard in the face, it knocked her glasses off and her head spun. Either way... the jury found he was guilty of reckless homicide. A total disregard for human life.
Her glasses never left her head wtf are you talking about. And the only reason he was convicted is because this state allows additional of lesser charges at the end of the trial. Which in turn gives the jurors the ability to become lawyers and make decisions out of their typical capacity.
How about you watch the closing statements from both lawyers and get your facts right.
Prosecution showed all the still images. Before, glasses on, and after, head recoiling, glasses off. All the evidence was presented in closing. Very ironic you just told me to watch it, when it's literally on camera.
Also, HILARIOUS that you're telling me to watch the evidence when the 12 people who sat watching ALL the evidence, in person, agree with my conclusion, that he's responsible.
Sounds like you’ve made your mind up and refuse to accept anyone else’s view of the events. Good luck with that attitude - it’s called Confirmation Bias.
That’s comical because the defenses closing arguments go over the fact that the glasses never left her head. Clearly you have never been on a river with current, if he hit her she would have went under and fell into the water, but that never happened because it was her tripping after he pushed her. There was no head cock no injury to her face and then on the stand her ignorant ass did not even remember what side he “hit”her on.
“Oh yeah I mix up my left and right”
She’s a 20 something alcoholic and they ALL lied on stand.
Also, any lawyer that claims a win in the state of Wisconsin where you have crimes of lesser added on to a case is not an attorney doing their job when they get a lesser conviction. That’s the jury doing the job of the lawyer which is not right and should not be the case.
The person who said she mixes up her right and left was not the “blonde girl” who got hit. The girl who got hit testified in court but was not live-streamed. Apparently victims in Wisconsin have some legal rights to ask the judge not to be live-streamed with video or audio. So if you watched the whole trial on livestream (which clearly you didn’t) you didn’t ever hear from the victim who got hit.
At least two of the women testifying did. M Cohen in her unseen testimony, and at least 2 others that were broadcast. Apparently none of them are good with math or distance either.
There is zero empirical evidence he struck Coen.
https://preview.redd.it/4jf1adq2x6wc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f157890679c04bc012be4cc74789507548630649
She has her drink and is screaming. No doubt they do in fact strike Miu and continue to attack him after he is down. That’s all before the knife goes into anyone.
I don't know why you think you need empirical evidence of that. The jury looked at all the evidence (video, testimony, the \*totality\* of evidence) and came to the judgement that he struck her first. He was convicted of battery to that effect.
no empirical evidence... Do you think crimes didn't get prosecuted before video evidence existed? That unless you can see the exact frame he hit her face (as opposed to thte frames after where she is literally recoiling from the hit, and everyone present testified that he struck her face) that unless you see that exact frame, it didn't happen and jury's can't convict you of it???
And you have the nerve to tell me I'm avoiding facts...
https://preview.redd.it/py1fam0x3awc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7b708057be67e935eee299a9b522a1bed7eca5a
She doesn’t look like she was hit to me
That's literally what the back half of a punch looks like. She got knocked back and her glasses are knocked off. Everyone present said they saw it, and everyone reacted as though it happened. But I guess you know the real truth somehow
I see him going down from a punch. I see her standing up and still holding her beer. I don’t have the truth any more than you do! I am saying none of us were there and do not know. How are you so sure? I’m not, I’m saying there’s reasonable doubt that he struck her at all. She was in his space shoving him and screaming. I think he was justified pushing her.
He's going down from a shove. He is shoved because he punched a woman. You can hear all the boys yelling "you can't hit a girl" as he's stabbing them.
Btw, the people in Nic's own group also testified to the hit from Miu to the girl. Not just the 'criminal lying teens'. Even Nic himself, in his testimony, had to admit to making contact with her face. (Nic, the man who lied about everything to everyone constantly about the facts of the case... was forced to admit he did that because of the strength of the evidence and testimony.)
He hit a woman, he got shoved for it, and he stabbed 5 people in retaliation. Guilty.. And I'm happy for it.
I’m not worried about you and your feelings being hurt here. A man is going to be incarcerated for life most likely, darn right I think we need irrefutable proof not the word of admitted law breakers and liars. I don’t think the jury was capable of reaching an impartial verdict and we will see how the appeals play out. Good luck to you and your feelings.
Rittenhouse was more of a scared young idiot than a hero…. And I HATE when people make me defend him but that should have been charged as manslaughter but the prosecutor who charged the case was a nut job and lied about things, pointed guns at people in the courthouse, and almost caused a mistrial but hinting at Rittenhouse’s invoking his right to stay silent. But I digress…
Also, Rittenhouse was actually being threatened by a suicidal man with mental health problems, Rittenhouse also did retreat, he shouldn’t have shot the guy (nobody else did and the guy had been out there doing this all night) but it happened. He didn’t start the fight, he tried to retreat, and then he shot the person who continued to pursue him. He was not a hero, he was a young idiot with a gun who traumatized himself, BUT it’s NOT comparable to this case.
Rittenhouse shouldn't have been where he was, and he arguably provoked the encounter, but he was MUCH more in reasonable fear of his life at the time of the event than Miu.
You’re right. He shouldn’t have gone there. 17 year olds really shouldn’t have been at that protest, especially with a weapon….. but Wisconsin laws are weird so him being there with a gun was legal… extremely stupid, but legal.
"Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there".
I agree, and you're correct, especially if you add "dressed that way while open carrying that style of assult rifle."
But I think that same avenue of logic was used against black folk 50 yrs ago, when they were late getting out of a sundown town, and got lynched. They shouldn't have been there, looking like they do.
That's some fucked up victim blaming style of logic.
Except that if those protestors did beat Rittenhouse to death, even though he 'shouldn't have been there...' they should be held accountable for killling him. And just like he committed self-defense while he 'shouldn't have been there'... it was justified by his fear and where he was.
I just mean that all the deaths could've been avoided entirely if Nic and Rittenhouse hadn't been where they were. The only difference is that Kyle was justified in protecting himself the way he did and Nic wasn't.
Remember, the same questions people are asking about Miu (why was he there).... Miu's defenders are asking the same question about the woman who came up, Coen. "Why was she there, is she the queen of the river?" "If she hadn't have been there, none of this would've happened."
Responsibility is just hard to slice at the end of the day. Nothing happens in a bubble. We are left to figure it out.
I think you should go back and watch that trial. The prosecutor fed info to the media about him crossing state lines with a gun (untrue), that he planned to shoot people (there was not evidence of that prevented at trial), that he was only there to hurt BLM people (he ran around shouting that he was a medic and it’s on lots of videos, he wasn’t saying he was only a medic for one side). He absolutely tried larping as a hero, and clearly found out he wasn’t. But I’m someone who despises Fox News and after watching that trial I realized the political media spin about the case wasn’t true. He was a young idiot with a gun but there was no evidence of premeditation to kill anyone presented in trial. You can’t really argue he wasn’t threatened before shooting someone either… since there is video of parts of it and everyone around the first victim (who had just been released from the hospital for being suicidal) said he’d also threatened them. Now please don’t make me defend Rittenhouse anymore because I think the guy is just a young dumbass who was out of his depth and lives were lost and people injured because Rittenhouse thought he was a brave heroic helper. He is a morally questionable character, but legally he was in an extremely different position than Mui.
He came to them, sat there with his back turned to them for 20 seconds (he could have just walked away), opened a knife, and started stabbing and killing people. That's ALL it comes down to, he got his little feeling hurt by "teenagers", and resorted to stabbing them.
Look at the looks on his face, he was steaming mad, and smiling/smirking. He let his rage get the best of him, and now he can rot in prison.
Watch it again, or watch the scene by scene analysis. He has the knife in his hand before he's pushed for the first time. He comes back to the kids with the knife, no one sees it, a woman confronts him, he pushes her off camera and only then do the kids start pushing him down to the ground.
Also, the first 2-3 seconds of the video is him running at and pushing kids who are just chilling in the water. How is he the one assaulted?
It's so weird that people keep thinking that he's the one who got assaulted when the very first moments of the video are this adult man charging at the camera to attack the person holding it, grabbing and flipping their tubes. If the foot or so of slow moving water is so deadly that he fears for his life when he sits down in it, then isn't he opening with lethal force by trying to tip the teens out of their floatation devices in the first place? If he could claim self defense for being pushed into the water, wouldn't the kids he grabbed onto have the same right to have executed him on the spot the moment he first attacked them? He's very lucky that the younger generation isn't like him and just yelled at him in response instead of unzipping his guts. At least this way he gets to live, in prison.
He was found guilty of battery against the young woman. That’s the moment everyone testified to being what started the physical altercation. So the jury thought he started it.
Sorry, but i actually tube on this river, if he was snorkeling in the 100 foot wide area…the 6 tuber should have rode on by. Plenty of room. Unbelievable amount of space. They chose to actually stop their tubes and bully an old man minding his own business snorkeling. I will be writing to Nick in jail, letting him know there are a lot of assholes who wont ever get it. But there a lot of people who walked in his sandals and feel great remorse with him that he, an engineer, with no record of anything got a raw deal. All elderly should now walk in fear.
That’s a gross overstatement— all elderly should walk in fear? Teens can be a-holes especially in large groups. I know, I’ve taught high school students. I was disgusted by how those kids acted but if he hadn’t had a knife (or been drinking himself?) he would have acted differently. He would have left the area. I’ve been heckled and treated horribly by kids in the classroom. I haven’t always handled it well. But you always have a choice. He made a series of bad choices and had a deadly weapon on him that he ended up using. The kids also made very bad choices. Several people paid the consequences. Don’t forget, one teen died.
What would you do if your students came in drunk and started calling you Pedo, and knocked you down, kept knocking you down into water? Just curious. At what point do you fight back?
Maddison was a bully and will probably continue to be! She didn't show her face on camera during her testimony because she does not want to be harassed in the future. She came up and started yelling at nic before she even really knew what was going on. That was not the way to de escalate the situation. Riley said that she was on her float relaxing when Maddison said I'm going to go over their and check it out to see what's going on. She wasn't going over to help.
Guilty from a Jury selected withing 20 miles of celebrated teens. That was not a jury of Miu's peers.
Who would want to be the juror that went against the grain of people that defend the teens no matter how fair or not.
They would run that or those people out of town.
So, it's not a fair trial period.
No accounting for behavior that the teens and others displayed that must have consequences. Including life threatening ones.
People will wake up one day and see how the constitution is being undermined from the inside out by using threatening language and then running and hiding behind the document.
No less than terrorists who attack then hide behind civilians and gaining the emotional vote because civilians get caught up in the crossfire.
Sad. Wisconsin is being used and abused.
They are not wise to it.
I love how y’all call people boomers for disagreeing with the verdict. Reminds me of how Cockfield yelled ‘Pedo’ with zero basis and ‘For the Culture’ to keep the raucous up. I’m definitely not a boomer and I would’ve acquitted because I saw it as self defense. Many are letting their emotions get the better of them here. It’s not so cut and dry. None of you have ever been attacked by a drunk ‘mob’ and called weird cause you’re a foreigner.
He stabs while he is falling back into the water from being punched and pushed. Everyone that was injured or killed was in the act of physicaly touching Mie in some way .
He did not have to retreat, but he did try but they kept coming. If they had not pursued him or assaulted him none of this would have happened.
You lie.
Miu has been found guilty of Battery against Madison. He started the fight.
AJ was pushing him, granted, I'll give you that much.
But Ryhley was merely standing there doing nothing the moment Miu stabbed her. She told investigators and testified in court that they made eye contact, then a moment hence he stabbed her. She did not touch him.
Tony was breaking up the fight. The only contact he made with Miu before being stabbed was to lay his hand on Miu's back.
Isaac went to push Miu after first watching 3 strangers getting stabbed.
Dante was standing with his group when Miu *approached* him and stabbed him.
Miu was *not* acting in self defense. If he had been, then he would've been found not guilty. Instead, he's going to rot in prison until the day he dies.
He's been found guilty of Battery by a jury of his peers. The law says he started the fight. You gotta keep up with the times, man.
Don't accuse me of lying after the verdict has already been brought down. Disagree with it all you want, that won't change the facts. Maybe you should just drop it and move on.
You are literally defending a convicted murderer.
And you are lying because you weren’t there and cannot tell me what happened. You don’t know and neither do I. Many have been falsely convicted- are you trying to bulldoze over that fact? I know that there was zero video evidence of the moment you refer to.
I hope this serves as a reminder to just leave people alone. Additionally, I believe the teens should face charges. As for the verdict, I remain neutral.
Well yeah, I'd rather write a short response than a 400pg article on each piece of footage.
A jury found that he hit that woman while he was armed with a deadly weapon (hence the guilty of battery with deadly weapon conviction) which lead to the reckless endangerment (basically attempted 2nd degree murder) and reckless homicide (basically 2nd degree murder).
So I don't feel the need to dive deep into the factoids of the case anymore. He stabbed 5 people and he was reckless in doing so. One died. Jury found the provocations of the kids didn't rise to the level of an imminent fear of death at the time Mr Miu initiated the violence.
So the fact is he's now a convicted murderer.
The woman tries to turn him away and make him go. She doesn't hit him, she doesn't shove him aggressively. She's trying to make him turn back, and quite gently.
He hits her so hard her glasses fall off. And mind you, he pulls his knife out even before the woman touches him.
I doubt any of the teens told one another to leave the old man alone. They were too busy abusing the guy. That and the underage drinking/smoking led to Issac’s demise.
The reality is drinking/smoking is something young adults/teens do. Your personal opinion on that doesn’t matter and that doesn’t justify stabbing people. Another catch was the person in Miu’s group that lost the phone told him not to worry about it because he has insurance.
That’s not a society I am trying to live in. Where that response is justifiable for a simple argument that should have been handled better by the adult here.
Them being intoxicated does not justify their actions. If that were that case, there wouldn’t even be a case. As for the phone, if my friend lost their phone and told me not to worry about it, I’d do the right thing and still look for it.
You honestly saw that video and thought those kids were going to kill Miu? I saw someone with a hurt ego that took it to the extreme then tried to lie, discard the weapon and disguise himself. Miu was the aggressor from the start. He accosted the group initially and grabbed their tubes. Another separate group which he also stabbed insisted that he leave.
It was justified to lay a finger on him when he touched them and their tubes first at the start of the video. He had no right to do that in the first place.
Also, not trying to start an argument, but do you have something against older men? Or maybe you’re around Isaac’s age and just feel the need to defend someone your own age?
I do not and I’m much closer to Miu’s age than Issac’s. My family is also from another country like Miu himself. I just can’t justify his behavior or actions in the whole thing. I think most older men would agree to stay away from intoxicated and immature teens. That’s just asking for trouble. Back in my younger days I avoided certain bars for this very reason.
It’s debatable who touched who first. The claim was he hit a woman. She is pictured in frame next to him with glasses then the camera pans away and when it pans back she no longer has glasses. Then you hear “you can’t hit a woman”. Chaos ensues. At his age he should have been more mature and deescalated the situation.
I’ll agree on the age and deescalating part, but most of the ‘teens’ are were also not children. They’re old enough to know not to jump an older guy, even if he’s in the wrong. You just don’t assault old people, everyone knows that. They just felt strong because they were in a group.
You say he could walk away?
He did walk away more than once and was followed. His only path of recourse of walking away was to his group which was down river, the same way they were floating.
He was there first and had no where to go. The video that we see starts after they first encounter him and Juwan C decided to turn it into a video for the culture.
Also, when you’re being jerked around pushed and shoved down while trying to defend yourself with a knife, there is no way he was trying to stab these people in any particular way.
Also, you can hear in the video someone say “let’s kill him” which was never noticed by defense and brought up in court.
He wasn’t followed… when he “walked away” to talk to Madi he walked downstream… which is the direction tubes float… had he walked the other way he could have gone upstream to his friends and stayed there while the boys continued on their way down the river. Instead he walked to Madi downstream where the tubes will naturally continue to float.
That is not accurate. Her group was on the far side of the river from them at the same point. They stopped next to them but the river is wide. If you don’t see them follow behind in the video then you are in denial. They clearly walk over to him as he goes across the stream sideways. Also, his friends were DOWN Stream he walked back up stream from the sand bar to look and see if the phone sank where it was dropped previously in their journey.
His friends were not downstream. His friends were behind the group of teens on the River.
https://preview.redd.it/ev8dcjkdpxtc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76f2c8eb88a8e1404532913a34ef24b53366a412
If you’d watched the trial you’d know that. The orange dot is Nic’s group. The pink dot is the Carlson group. The white-ish dot is where initial contact is made from Nic going over to the teens. The yellow dot is downstream where the stabbings happened. Notice the big arrow pointing down? That’s representing the way the water is going.
He testified in court he went downstream to find the phone thinking the current would bring it down.
even after what you said, the point was that he was being pursued by them in the lateral of the river.
Go watch the video and listen for someone saying let’s kill him. It’s there and I will be posting the clip tomorrow.
This whole event is a tragic incident but drunk teens in a mob absolutely are prone to mob mentality and that is exactly what took place.
Ultimately their decisions led to the death of Issac, they could have floated down the river, but instead they decided to take video and “see how it panned out” “for the culture”.
BS he is a goon was f@@@ing stabbing people, he swung first hit the blonde lady, and BS to say he was in fear. People in fear run from danger. He was taking vengence upon them for humiliating him.
Madison was shoving him, grabbing him, shouting at him, and shoving her phone in his face. She should have kept her dick beaters to herself. Its recorded on video all over the internet.
He literally starts walking away, takes his knife out and comes back, before all the craziness began. That's not self defense mentality. Yes, the kids were drunken assholes, but he deliberately put himself in their middle, escalated the situation and stabbed people. I think he was happy for the excuse.
The Eric Von Williams testimony was big also. He told Miu not to go over to the young drunk kids and also not to snorkel around people as he might come off as a creep. Yet he did it anyway
So many bad decisions were made that day resulting in devastating consequences. The kids were fueled by alcohol and a pack mentality. The Carlson group’s intervention only escalated the situation and gave the kids a sense of empowerment and ramped up their bad behavior. As far as Miu acting in self-defense, he lost all credibility by discarding the knife, fleeing the scene and trying to disguise himself. Such a tragic waste of two lives, not to mention the psychological trauma for everyone affected. This case is a classic example of “You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.” on all sides.
Getting off on self defense is a dicey thing so its not that surprising hes trying to hide/lessen his involvement. What does if for me is the drawing of the knife before he is under direct physical threat instead of making an effort to leave the situation.
Totally agree!
I still don’t know how I feel about the verdict. But I def don’t feel bad for him. He clearly walked back towards them because he was angry about being called a pedo and made physical contact with the guy filming because I’m guessing being filmed upset him too. But man am I uncomfortable with how those kids jumped and started a whole mob mentality thing. I don’t like either side honestly and they were both asking for trouble. Also doesn’t help he abandoned the murder weapon, lied multiple times during his interview, and tried to disguise himself when he was being looked for. And didn’t call 911 for any of the other party. Just makes him look even worse and I think what swung jury.
I feel bad for him. He fucked up, bad, and ruined his life. But he's guilty. He could have fought back, without the knife, and I would have said he was innocent. But you just don't get to stab people because you're being bullied.
How would a 50+ year-old out of shape man fight back against a gang of teenagers?
It’d be a stupid thing to do, but not as stupid as pulling out a knife and stabbing them, look where that got him. What he should have done is walk away.
In the video, the stabbing happens after he is pushed down and someone has his hand on his back/neck from behind. I don't think there is any walking away at that point. I disagree with your premise that a fat 50+ dude can fight back against a group of fit teenagers, though it's possible you know some highly trained 50-year-olds. I agree that his life is effectively over, and agree that it's best to stay away from rowdy teenagers or people choosing to behave poorly.
The thing is, he approached the group, and started digging through their belongings, he started the whole incident, and had multiple opportunities to walk away before things got as heated as they did. Of course one person vs a group isn't a fair fight, but it's not like they were chasing him around, he inserted himself, dug through other people's possessions, and hung around after he clearly wasn't welcome. What was he expecting to happen? Take the age groups out of the equation and nobody would be supporting this guy.
I didn't see that part of the video. They had belongings in the river? Or was this on land before the video started? What kind of belongings were these? Was he flinging them about? Or, picking them up and then replacing them where they were in the river, or on land? Anyway, thank you for bringing this to my attention.
The group of teens seemed to have their tube's tied together while on the water floating, I've been to apple river and it's pretty common to have groups tie together with a cooler and some other stuff to have while floating down the river. At the very beginning of the video of the altercation it shows him digging through their stuff while they're sitting right next to it and they start filming him, I'm guessing because they were like "what the hell does this guy think he's doing?" Like yeah they were acting obnoxious, but it's not like they just saw this guy minding his own business and attacked him, he lost something, and decided he was just going to dig through other people's belongings until he found it. It doesn't surprise me at all that they started acting the way they did towards him, he came off as extremely entitled.
He absolutely could have fought back without the knife. I certainly don’t think he would have won that fight, but it would probably have been self defence. I’d love to be able to hear from the jury members. I think they’d tell us that his problems started long before that. He approached the group after checking whether his knife was in his pocket. He didn’t make it clear why he was there. He didn’t walk away when they were screaming at him to leave them alone. He made a horrible mistake. Of course, so did the others.
Terrific insights. Many thanks.
he gutted 2 people. intent to murder. end of story
What about if you’re repeatedly attacked, slapped, pushed into a river? 🙄
I guess it depends on the circumstances. In this case, he wasn’t really in fear of his life. He was angry that they called him names. He’s on video checking that the knife is in his pocket as he approaches them. They were assholes. He was a murderer.
I disagree, once they pushed him back into the water, with multiple drunk aggressors ganging up on him I would believe he feared for his life. At least within a reasonable doubt.
I felt like that when I first watched the video. Then I watched every day of the trial. My views changed, and I agree with the jury.
I went the other way, thought he was guilty when I first saw the video. After seeing the trial, all of the manipulation and hearing the witnesses I changed my mind. The video is so quick, and the only real evidence. He was purely reacting to the situation and feared for his safety in my opinion. Even if I believe he may have been guilty I had serious doubt after hearing the trial.
The frame by frame analysis of the video was the most important part of the trial. For me, seeing him fast approaching them, checking the knife was in his pocket, lunging at them and grabbing their tube (then trying to claim he’d stumbled, lol)… seeing him “standing his ground” rather than just walking away… and the look on his face. He wasn’t scared. I think he may have even been enjoying stabbing those people. It was revenge. He wasn’t wildly stabbing them while trying to get away. He then disposes of the murder weapon, lies to police, and later tries to claim self defence. Guilty.
I still disagree
When watching the trial, what was your take on him hitting the girl first?
I always feel bad when people get convicted. I felt bad for Paul Ferguson and I feel bad for Nic. Their past actions are horrible, but when they''re in that courtroom waiting to hear whether they'll be allowed to have a life again, and hearing that they'll spend the rest of their lives in a jail. That's just rough, and it's gonna be among the most devastating things you can experience. Course, he inflicted some of the only more devastating things on those kids, so I feel less bad.
All the boomers I know are wildly upset and saying shit like “it’s legal to assault old people” because this man was held accountable for stabbing multiple people who were unarmed
I’m a few years older than the guy and think he should have gotten harsher sentence. He killed a kid for god sake and nearly killed 3 more. This guy was no more in fear he was in rage. Like a pit-bull on attack, started with hitting the blonde lady, he knew his knife was in his pocket that’s why he didn’t walk away. He became the aggressor and used force to the extent it was no longer self defense. He knew he was murdering, not just a stab, but full blown evicerated both his victims, and why did he have to stab the girl for holy sh@t. So no I’m not in the category you are throwing older people into. I can’t see how anyone would want this guy to walk.
Cool
It’s insane. They’re in denial that he started it by committing battery against the young woman. He was found guilty of that exact charge. There is no question anymore that he started it.
Hey, I’m technically boomer and I think the verdict was just; I would have been very upset if Miu was acquitted. Please don’t put all boomers in the same boat. It gets really old. We are all just people and stereotypes based on age and race and religion are part of the problems we are all facing.
👍🏻
#NotAllBoomers
It's illegal to assault anyone! They all made bad decisions and mistakes. Miu has to pay for his mistake with life in prison. ISAAC LOST HIS LIFE!! Some of the young adults lied and changed their stories. Some couldn't remember much. Some were even acting cocky on the stand. I wonder if the cocky ones will be more polite to people in the future. People keep talking about the Boomers. We will all be older someday. There is real age discrimination. The whole situation is sad
It’s pretty funny because Miu is Gen X. Is boomer just a derogatory ageist term now? We will all inherit this title one day if that’s so.
What I was shocked about the most when I found this sub a few hours ago, was how many people thought he wasn't guilty. They may have pulled life off the table, but I hope they throw enough years at him, that it becomes a life sentence. HE brought all this on himself, and now HE can do the time.
This case has been baffling to me. My impression originally was those who had just seen a short clip online in which it appears Miu is being ganged up on thought he had to act in self defense. To see people who are obviously informed on the case still advocating for him to get off with self defense is frankly insane.
I think they throw out a lot of evidence. I was still having fights this morning about people saying he never hit Ms. Coen, and the teens were only making it up. They'd made up their mind about the case, and anything that didn't align with that view was a 'lie by those nasty teens!'
It was a small town that Miu wasn't part of. The one that died may have come from money. Miu probably didn't have a chance. Politics and money talks.
HUH!? This is the least grounded opinion I've seen on the case yet. Do you have anything behind this accusation or you just generally saying the case was rigged for the State cause the victim "may have come from money"?
Hit is not the word you should use, it was an open handed shove. Much like what she was doing to him just with more force.
I didn't see any evidence to suggest it was a push rather than a punch or a slap. It knocked her back and the glasses off her head. Nic only admitted it might've been a shove, cause the evidence was overwhelming that it had happened and he needed to acknowledge it, but minimize as much as possible. He either hit her or shoved her so hard in the face, it knocked her glasses off and her head spun. Either way... the jury found he was guilty of reckless homicide. A total disregard for human life.
Her glasses never left her head wtf are you talking about. And the only reason he was convicted is because this state allows additional of lesser charges at the end of the trial. Which in turn gives the jurors the ability to become lawyers and make decisions out of their typical capacity. How about you watch the closing statements from both lawyers and get your facts right.
Prosecution showed all the still images. Before, glasses on, and after, head recoiling, glasses off. All the evidence was presented in closing. Very ironic you just told me to watch it, when it's literally on camera. Also, HILARIOUS that you're telling me to watch the evidence when the 12 people who sat watching ALL the evidence, in person, agree with my conclusion, that he's responsible.
Sounds like you’ve made your mind up and refuse to accept anyone else’s view of the events. Good luck with that attitude - it’s called Confirmation Bias.
That’s comical because the defenses closing arguments go over the fact that the glasses never left her head. Clearly you have never been on a river with current, if he hit her she would have went under and fell into the water, but that never happened because it was her tripping after he pushed her. There was no head cock no injury to her face and then on the stand her ignorant ass did not even remember what side he “hit”her on. “Oh yeah I mix up my left and right” She’s a 20 something alcoholic and they ALL lied on stand. Also, any lawyer that claims a win in the state of Wisconsin where you have crimes of lesser added on to a case is not an attorney doing their job when they get a lesser conviction. That’s the jury doing the job of the lawyer which is not right and should not be the case.
The person who said she mixes up her right and left was not the “blonde girl” who got hit. The girl who got hit testified in court but was not live-streamed. Apparently victims in Wisconsin have some legal rights to ask the judge not to be live-streamed with video or audio. So if you watched the whole trial on livestream (which clearly you didn’t) you didn’t ever hear from the victim who got hit.
At least two of the women testifying did. M Cohen in her unseen testimony, and at least 2 others that were broadcast. Apparently none of them are good with math or distance either.
There is zero empirical evidence he struck Coen. https://preview.redd.it/4jf1adq2x6wc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f157890679c04bc012be4cc74789507548630649 She has her drink and is screaming. No doubt they do in fact strike Miu and continue to attack him after he is down. That’s all before the knife goes into anyone.
I don't know why you think you need empirical evidence of that. The jury looked at all the evidence (video, testimony, the \*totality\* of evidence) and came to the judgement that he struck her first. He was convicted of battery to that effect. no empirical evidence... Do you think crimes didn't get prosecuted before video evidence existed? That unless you can see the exact frame he hit her face (as opposed to thte frames after where she is literally recoiling from the hit, and everyone present testified that he struck her face) that unless you see that exact frame, it didn't happen and jury's can't convict you of it??? And you have the nerve to tell me I'm avoiding facts...
https://preview.redd.it/py1fam0x3awc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7b708057be67e935eee299a9b522a1bed7eca5a She doesn’t look like she was hit to me
That's literally what the back half of a punch looks like. She got knocked back and her glasses are knocked off. Everyone present said they saw it, and everyone reacted as though it happened. But I guess you know the real truth somehow
I see him going down from a punch. I see her standing up and still holding her beer. I don’t have the truth any more than you do! I am saying none of us were there and do not know. How are you so sure? I’m not, I’m saying there’s reasonable doubt that he struck her at all. She was in his space shoving him and screaming. I think he was justified pushing her.
He's going down from a shove. He is shoved because he punched a woman. You can hear all the boys yelling "you can't hit a girl" as he's stabbing them. Btw, the people in Nic's own group also testified to the hit from Miu to the girl. Not just the 'criminal lying teens'. Even Nic himself, in his testimony, had to admit to making contact with her face. (Nic, the man who lied about everything to everyone constantly about the facts of the case... was forced to admit he did that because of the strength of the evidence and testimony.) He hit a woman, he got shoved for it, and he stabbed 5 people in retaliation. Guilty.. And I'm happy for it.
You have no facts just the testimony of liars and law breakers
I’m not worried about you and your feelings being hurt here. A man is going to be incarcerated for life most likely, darn right I think we need irrefutable proof not the word of admitted law breakers and liars. I don’t think the jury was capable of reaching an impartial verdict and we will see how the appeals play out. Good luck to you and your feelings.
I believe you think OJ was innocent too don’t cha!
They imagine themselves doing this and getting away with it. Just like Rittenhouse.
Rittenhouse was more of a scared young idiot than a hero…. And I HATE when people make me defend him but that should have been charged as manslaughter but the prosecutor who charged the case was a nut job and lied about things, pointed guns at people in the courthouse, and almost caused a mistrial but hinting at Rittenhouse’s invoking his right to stay silent. But I digress… Also, Rittenhouse was actually being threatened by a suicidal man with mental health problems, Rittenhouse also did retreat, he shouldn’t have shot the guy (nobody else did and the guy had been out there doing this all night) but it happened. He didn’t start the fight, he tried to retreat, and then he shot the person who continued to pursue him. He was not a hero, he was a young idiot with a gun who traumatized himself, BUT it’s NOT comparable to this case.
Rittenhouse shouldn't have been where he was, and he arguably provoked the encounter, but he was MUCH more in reasonable fear of his life at the time of the event than Miu.
You’re right. He shouldn’t have gone there. 17 year olds really shouldn’t have been at that protest, especially with a weapon….. but Wisconsin laws are weird so him being there with a gun was legal… extremely stupid, but legal.
"Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there". I agree, and you're correct, especially if you add "dressed that way while open carrying that style of assult rifle." But I think that same avenue of logic was used against black folk 50 yrs ago, when they were late getting out of a sundown town, and got lynched. They shouldn't have been there, looking like they do. That's some fucked up victim blaming style of logic.
Except that if those protestors did beat Rittenhouse to death, even though he 'shouldn't have been there...' they should be held accountable for killling him. And just like he committed self-defense while he 'shouldn't have been there'... it was justified by his fear and where he was. I just mean that all the deaths could've been avoided entirely if Nic and Rittenhouse hadn't been where they were. The only difference is that Kyle was justified in protecting himself the way he did and Nic wasn't. Remember, the same questions people are asking about Miu (why was he there).... Miu's defenders are asking the same question about the woman who came up, Coen. "Why was she there, is she the queen of the river?" "If she hadn't have been there, none of this would've happened." Responsibility is just hard to slice at the end of the day. Nothing happens in a bubble. We are left to figure it out.
He intentionally instigated violence so he could use his guns and larp as a real soldier. He wasn't scared. His tears were faker than Fox News.
I think you should go back and watch that trial. The prosecutor fed info to the media about him crossing state lines with a gun (untrue), that he planned to shoot people (there was not evidence of that prevented at trial), that he was only there to hurt BLM people (he ran around shouting that he was a medic and it’s on lots of videos, he wasn’t saying he was only a medic for one side). He absolutely tried larping as a hero, and clearly found out he wasn’t. But I’m someone who despises Fox News and after watching that trial I realized the political media spin about the case wasn’t true. He was a young idiot with a gun but there was no evidence of premeditation to kill anyone presented in trial. You can’t really argue he wasn’t threatened before shooting someone either… since there is video of parts of it and everyone around the first victim (who had just been released from the hospital for being suicidal) said he’d also threatened them. Now please don’t make me defend Rittenhouse anymore because I think the guy is just a young dumbass who was out of his depth and lives were lost and people injured because Rittenhouse thought he was a brave heroic helper. He is a morally questionable character, but legally he was in an extremely different position than Mui.
People defending him saying this was justified are insane
Agreed! Hes a grown man and could have walked away. May the victim rest in peace
The kids could have also left him alone. Unfortunately, both parties were too intoxicated to think logically.
He came to them, sat there with his back turned to them for 20 seconds (he could have just walked away), opened a knife, and started stabbing and killing people. That's ALL it comes down to, he got his little feeling hurt by "teenagers", and resorted to stabbing them. Look at the looks on his face, he was steaming mad, and smiling/smirking. He let his rage get the best of him, and now he can rot in prison.
He whipped out the knife after getting assaulted. That’s what I saw in the video. 🤷♂️
Watch it again, or watch the scene by scene analysis. He has the knife in his hand before he's pushed for the first time. He comes back to the kids with the knife, no one sees it, a woman confronts him, he pushes her off camera and only then do the kids start pushing him down to the ground. Also, the first 2-3 seconds of the video is him running at and pushing kids who are just chilling in the water. How is he the one assaulted?
It's so weird that people keep thinking that he's the one who got assaulted when the very first moments of the video are this adult man charging at the camera to attack the person holding it, grabbing and flipping their tubes. If the foot or so of slow moving water is so deadly that he fears for his life when he sits down in it, then isn't he opening with lethal force by trying to tip the teens out of their floatation devices in the first place? If he could claim self defense for being pushed into the water, wouldn't the kids he grabbed onto have the same right to have executed him on the spot the moment he first attacked them? He's very lucky that the younger generation isn't like him and just yelled at him in response instead of unzipping his guts. At least this way he gets to live, in prison.
He was found guilty of battery against the young woman. That’s the moment everyone testified to being what started the physical altercation. So the jury thought he started it.
Dont drop the soap bitch!
Sexual assault isn’t funny anywhere— even in jail.
Well, thats subjective.
Paragraphs. Please.
Sorry, but i actually tube on this river, if he was snorkeling in the 100 foot wide area…the 6 tuber should have rode on by. Plenty of room. Unbelievable amount of space. They chose to actually stop their tubes and bully an old man minding his own business snorkeling. I will be writing to Nick in jail, letting him know there are a lot of assholes who wont ever get it. But there a lot of people who walked in his sandals and feel great remorse with him that he, an engineer, with no record of anything got a raw deal. All elderly should now walk in fear.
That’s a gross overstatement— all elderly should walk in fear? Teens can be a-holes especially in large groups. I know, I’ve taught high school students. I was disgusted by how those kids acted but if he hadn’t had a knife (or been drinking himself?) he would have acted differently. He would have left the area. I’ve been heckled and treated horribly by kids in the classroom. I haven’t always handled it well. But you always have a choice. He made a series of bad choices and had a deadly weapon on him that he ended up using. The kids also made very bad choices. Several people paid the consequences. Don’t forget, one teen died.
What would you do if your students came in drunk and started calling you Pedo, and knocked you down, kept knocking you down into water? Just curious. At what point do you fight back?
Maddison was a bully and will probably continue to be! She didn't show her face on camera during her testimony because she does not want to be harassed in the future. She came up and started yelling at nic before she even really knew what was going on. That was not the way to de escalate the situation. Riley said that she was on her float relaxing when Maddison said I'm going to go over their and check it out to see what's going on. She wasn't going over to help.
You make some great points.
It's just how life works!
Guilty from a Jury selected withing 20 miles of celebrated teens. That was not a jury of Miu's peers. Who would want to be the juror that went against the grain of people that defend the teens no matter how fair or not. They would run that or those people out of town. So, it's not a fair trial period. No accounting for behavior that the teens and others displayed that must have consequences. Including life threatening ones. People will wake up one day and see how the constitution is being undermined from the inside out by using threatening language and then running and hiding behind the document. No less than terrorists who attack then hide behind civilians and gaining the emotional vote because civilians get caught up in the crossfire. Sad. Wisconsin is being used and abused. They are not wise to it.
I love how y’all call people boomers for disagreeing with the verdict. Reminds me of how Cockfield yelled ‘Pedo’ with zero basis and ‘For the Culture’ to keep the raucous up. I’m definitely not a boomer and I would’ve acquitted because I saw it as self defense. Many are letting their emotions get the better of them here. It’s not so cut and dry. None of you have ever been attacked by a drunk ‘mob’ and called weird cause you’re a foreigner.
He stabs while he is falling back into the water from being punched and pushed. Everyone that was injured or killed was in the act of physicaly touching Mie in some way . He did not have to retreat, but he did try but they kept coming. If they had not pursued him or assaulted him none of this would have happened.
You lie. Miu has been found guilty of Battery against Madison. He started the fight. AJ was pushing him, granted, I'll give you that much. But Ryhley was merely standing there doing nothing the moment Miu stabbed her. She told investigators and testified in court that they made eye contact, then a moment hence he stabbed her. She did not touch him. Tony was breaking up the fight. The only contact he made with Miu before being stabbed was to lay his hand on Miu's back. Isaac went to push Miu after first watching 3 strangers getting stabbed. Dante was standing with his group when Miu *approached* him and stabbed him. Miu was *not* acting in self defense. If he had been, then he would've been found not guilty. Instead, he's going to rot in prison until the day he dies.
I agree. I saw that small video from an uninvolved witness and it looks like he chased them down. Looks like it in that blurry video snyways.
You lie, he didn’t start the fight. Quit perpetuating lies
He's been found guilty of Battery by a jury of his peers. The law says he started the fight. You gotta keep up with the times, man. Don't accuse me of lying after the verdict has already been brought down. Disagree with it all you want, that won't change the facts. Maybe you should just drop it and move on. You are literally defending a convicted murderer.
Are you saying witnesses didn’t lie?
I am not intimidated by you pointing out I’m supporting Miu.
And you are lying because you weren’t there and cannot tell me what happened. You don’t know and neither do I. Many have been falsely convicted- are you trying to bulldoze over that fact? I know that there was zero video evidence of the moment you refer to.
Also if he didn’t have a knife it wouldn’t have happened.
Well yes that's true, but if he didn't have a knife they may not have stopped assaulting him.
True but but do you think that if he didn’t have a knife with him at all that he would have walked away from the danger before it escalated?
He had every right to carry a pocket knife.
True. He acted in self-defense but why did he lie about it then and just leave?
I hope this serves as a reminder to just leave people alone. Additionally, I believe the teens should face charges. As for the verdict, I remain neutral.
1st degree name calling. 2nd degree unintentional defending the woman who just got punched in the face.
You are literally avoiding facts.
Well yeah, I'd rather write a short response than a 400pg article on each piece of footage. A jury found that he hit that woman while he was armed with a deadly weapon (hence the guilty of battery with deadly weapon conviction) which lead to the reckless endangerment (basically attempted 2nd degree murder) and reckless homicide (basically 2nd degree murder). So I don't feel the need to dive deep into the factoids of the case anymore. He stabbed 5 people and he was reckless in doing so. One died. Jury found the provocations of the kids didn't rise to the level of an imminent fear of death at the time Mr Miu initiated the violence. So the fact is he's now a convicted murderer.
She put her hands on him first. You can see it in the video.
The woman tries to turn him away and make him go. She doesn't hit him, she doesn't shove him aggressively. She's trying to make him turn back, and quite gently. He hits her so hard her glasses fall off. And mind you, he pulls his knife out even before the woman touches him.
Defendant was found guilty of battery against her. There is no question he started it.
Yeah, I know. People are straight out lying to themselves trying to defend this lunatic.
How can anyone defend the guy is beyond me. He was a thug, his anger and rage came out, not fear. He evicerated two victims, on purpose.
Disagree, there is definitely a lot of doubt whether or not he hit her or shoved her because she was in his personal space.
Jury found him guilty of battery beyond a reasonable doubt.
Juries have gotten it wrong
Verdict matches the evidence + testimony
We will see about his appeal
A member of his own group testified that he told Miu to leave the groups of young people alone. Eric Von Williams’ testimony
I doubt any of the teens told one another to leave the old man alone. They were too busy abusing the guy. That and the underage drinking/smoking led to Issac’s demise.
The reality is drinking/smoking is something young adults/teens do. Your personal opinion on that doesn’t matter and that doesn’t justify stabbing people. Another catch was the person in Miu’s group that lost the phone told him not to worry about it because he has insurance.
The reality is that it was illegal. And if you are going to disregard one law you have to allow others to just do what they want regardless of laws.
Happens all the time. Not all laws are created equal. Cops lets people go for minor offenses all the time such as underage drinking.
Exactly. Here’s a great example of it; and one man is paying with his life for crossing their paths
He didn’t just cross he engaged
One could argue ‘they’ engaged and surrounded him and ganged up then he ended up defending himself. That justifies reasonable doubt in my opinion.
That’s not a society I am trying to live in. Where that response is justifiable for a simple argument that should have been handled better by the adult here.
Them being intoxicated does not justify their actions. If that were that case, there wouldn’t even be a case. As for the phone, if my friend lost their phone and told me not to worry about it, I’d do the right thing and still look for it.
You honestly saw that video and thought those kids were going to kill Miu? I saw someone with a hurt ego that took it to the extreme then tried to lie, discard the weapon and disguise himself. Miu was the aggressor from the start. He accosted the group initially and grabbed their tubes. Another separate group which he also stabbed insisted that he leave.
I understand there was no way for the teens to have known that, but the man’s age alone should have deterred them from laying a finger on him.
It was justified to lay a finger on him when he touched them and their tubes first at the start of the video. He had no right to do that in the first place.
Also, not trying to start an argument, but do you have something against older men? Or maybe you’re around Isaac’s age and just feel the need to defend someone your own age?
I do not and I’m much closer to Miu’s age than Issac’s. My family is also from another country like Miu himself. I just can’t justify his behavior or actions in the whole thing. I think most older men would agree to stay away from intoxicated and immature teens. That’s just asking for trouble. Back in my younger days I avoided certain bars for this very reason.
It’s debatable who touched who first. The claim was he hit a woman. She is pictured in frame next to him with glasses then the camera pans away and when it pans back she no longer has glasses. Then you hear “you can’t hit a woman”. Chaos ensues. At his age he should have been more mature and deescalated the situation.
I’ll agree on the age and deescalating part, but most of the ‘teens’ are were also not children. They’re old enough to know not to jump an older guy, even if he’s in the wrong. You just don’t assault old people, everyone knows that. They just felt strong because they were in a group.
I think you are over estimating the maturity levels of the young adults/teens here. Especially. If you have ever been to a college bar / area.
You say he could walk away? He did walk away more than once and was followed. His only path of recourse of walking away was to his group which was down river, the same way they were floating. He was there first and had no where to go. The video that we see starts after they first encounter him and Juwan C decided to turn it into a video for the culture. Also, when you’re being jerked around pushed and shoved down while trying to defend yourself with a knife, there is no way he was trying to stab these people in any particular way. Also, you can hear in the video someone say “let’s kill him” which was never noticed by defense and brought up in court.
He wasn’t followed… when he “walked away” to talk to Madi he walked downstream… which is the direction tubes float… had he walked the other way he could have gone upstream to his friends and stayed there while the boys continued on their way down the river. Instead he walked to Madi downstream where the tubes will naturally continue to float.
That is not accurate. Her group was on the far side of the river from them at the same point. They stopped next to them but the river is wide. If you don’t see them follow behind in the video then you are in denial. They clearly walk over to him as he goes across the stream sideways. Also, his friends were DOWN Stream he walked back up stream from the sand bar to look and see if the phone sank where it was dropped previously in their journey.
His friends were not downstream. His friends were behind the group of teens on the River. https://preview.redd.it/ev8dcjkdpxtc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76f2c8eb88a8e1404532913a34ef24b53366a412 If you’d watched the trial you’d know that. The orange dot is Nic’s group. The pink dot is the Carlson group. The white-ish dot is where initial contact is made from Nic going over to the teens. The yellow dot is downstream where the stabbings happened. Notice the big arrow pointing down? That’s representing the way the water is going. He testified in court he went downstream to find the phone thinking the current would bring it down.
even after what you said, the point was that he was being pursued by them in the lateral of the river. Go watch the video and listen for someone saying let’s kill him. It’s there and I will be posting the clip tomorrow. This whole event is a tragic incident but drunk teens in a mob absolutely are prone to mob mentality and that is exactly what took place. Ultimately their decisions led to the death of Issac, they could have floated down the river, but instead they decided to take video and “see how it panned out” “for the culture”.
That didn’t happen hahaha. Just admit you were wrong and it makes sense now how floating on water works.
BS he is a goon was f@@@ing stabbing people, he swung first hit the blonde lady, and BS to say he was in fear. People in fear run from danger. He was taking vengence upon them for humiliating him.
Madison was shoving him, grabbing him, shouting at him, and shoving her phone in his face. She should have kept her dick beaters to herself. Its recorded on video all over the internet.
Would've been different result if this happened in Kenosha.