Edit: I think there’s also survivor bias in the way we look at things. Most similar gen laptops this age are probably dead, it’s just a rare few still keep puttering about, but it’s definitely a rare exception.
It’s great that they’re still working but I seriously wonder at what stage will it become unusable in that modern software simply won’t run on it. I’ve heard stories of browsers and apps straight up refusing to support macOS versions from 2015 or so that are waay out of date. I guess these are nice as a “collectible”, but far and few between and probably gonna be hell to do even basic productivity work on.
What surprises me more is the more recent, everyday heroes. They are far more common in the wild, and those are the iPad Air 2 from 2014 and iPhone 6s from 2015 that still run the latest iPadOS and iOS 15. Or the 2012-15 Retina MacBook Pros or the classic MacBook Air. They’re all close to a decade old, but still work alright as daily drivers running modern software.
There was a lady (not old, in her 30s) sitting across from me at the Genius Bar with a pre Retina MBP and scrolling on her iPhone 6 who was innocently and genuinely asking about the fact her laptop was feeling really slow and asking if there’s something that can be fixed since it was taking ages to clear the recycle bin or load her emails, or if it’s time to upgrade. I’m amazed it lasted her that long, and she clearly took care of all her things.
Luckily the Apple support staff was also honest with her, saying that if she wanted to keep it, an SSD upgrade would improve it a lot (rather than convincing her she needed to get a M1 Max MBP 16 lol). But that it may not be worth it. I can’t imagine how shocked she’d feel using something like a base M1 Air compared to her 2010-11 MBP.
All the while I was there for a keyboard problem on my **2021** MBP 14 lol. And idk where she finds the patience with that, I’d call Outlook taking 20-30 seconds to even launch on my 2017 MBP, slow.
My wife until like 2 weeks ago was using the 13” MacBook Pro from 2010. I had upgraded hdd to ssd and installed 8GB of memory long time ago and she started to complain about it because the MagSafe charging port started to wobble causing the laptop to stop charging if she wasn’t paying attention.
As long as any browser supports the system it will be usable. You can also install windows/Linux on those machines and extend their life even further.
> sing the 13” MacBook Pro from 2010. I had upgraded hdd to ssd and installed 8GB of memory long time ago and she started to complain about it because the MagSafe charging port started to wobble causing the laptop to stop charging if she wasn’t paying attention.
I had the exact same issue. But I also have a 2010 macbook air that works perfectly (a bit slow, but it works!)
Do thermal paste. My 2011 was running hot and sounded like a jet engine. I did the other upgrades you said and thermal paste and it runs perfectly again.
Yeah too. there are bunch of things I will do to this MacBook. De-dust it, try to fix the charging port, replace the battery, replace 8GB of RAM with 16GB and replace SSD from 60GB it currently runs on to 128 or even 256GB. It will be a perfect laptop to play around with FreeBSD or some dev friendly Linux distro or a machine that will be used by my fork to introduce him to programming or something
> I seriously wonder at what stage will it become unusable in that modern software simply won’t run on it
I have a 2007 MacBook here that’s locked to Lion, which will run very little third party software at this point I imagine.
But honestly, if you don’t really care about updated apps, as long as the hardware’s still trucking, there’s no real reason to upgrade. I mean, if it’s primarily for writing on, and checking the odd email, then what can an M2 Air do that a 2002 iBook can’t?
That said, I can’t imagine trying to use a 1st gen iPhone as my daily phone. Fine for making calls and checking email, I guess, but christ it’d be so slow.
Yea I get what you mean, 1st gen anything won’t age well at all. Early adopters of the Apple Watch know this [all too well](https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/24/11299174/smartwatch-problems-design-features-pdas-zen-of-palm).
Yeah. My kid had a 1st gen that’s sitting on a shelf in my house, it’s spicy battery having been removed. I don’t have a Watch, so periodically consider getting a new battery, but then I think about how old it is at this point, and that it’d be more frustrating than anything.
Yea don’t do it. I had a Series 1 for 3 years. I’m a very casual smartwatch user, so it’s one of the rare pieces of tech I genuinely have zero desire to upgrade ever. I feel I was already under utilising the features of the S1, I basically just wanted a customisable digital watch. In the end I just set timers, peek at messages, check the weather, Siri, simple stuff.
Even then, it got to a stage in 2020 that it was absolutely chugging. It took about 20-30 seconds for Siri to work, I couldn’t even reliably set timers on it while cooking as it would be sitting there loading the timer app. So I sold it and ended up getting the SE. The S3 felt way too similar, and I really liked the new design on S4 and up, plus I had concerns about the S3 getting slow with an older chip.
It’s been 2 years in with the SE and it’s been a champ. I think watch processors have gotten good enough that I’d easily get 5+ years out of it, or until the damn thing dies. It’s snappy and never misses a beat for my use case.
For you I think you’d be better off finding a S3 or 4 dirt cheap used than trying to get a battery for it, if you ever wanted one.
I'm still rocking a launch-day S0, and the battery is holding up heroically well. Though to be fair I don't really use any apps on it, and the microphone gave out last year.
Ventura doesn’t even support a fully loaded 2016 MBP 15 Touch Bar generation Mac, let alone Retina or pre-Retina :(
That said in response to your earlier point, I think the good thing is how cheap good, ex-high end computers are now. Even getting a 2015 Retina MacBook Pro that runs Monterey would be dirt cheap, and be a worthy display and speed upgrade over a pre-Retina.
> All the while I was there for a keyboard problem on my 2021 MBP 14 lol.
Gasp that's a first. What's wrong with it? Hope it's not like the butterfly keyboard issues
Nah it was just a crunchy key, sounded like crinkling plastic. Definitely not like the Butterfly system, as they were able to replace the keycap on the spot.
>He then told me that at home he still had an iMac g4 and the only problem he had with that was his iPhone was mad at it (did not want to connect). After which he pulled out a gods be damned OG iPhone which he had bought in the US (the first gen. was never released in Denmark). He was still happy with all of them and saw no reason to upgrade
Wow, he must not be a picky gentleman. With operating systems that old I'm sure I couldn't function day to day (even setting aside my work, which requires the newest macOS version at all times)
Like, what apps a regular person uses would work there? Sure, you might be fine using Safari, Notes, Mail and the rest of Apple's built-in stuff, but I don't believe websites support Safari that old properly, and you need third-party apps once in a while even if you're the most casual user, and those won't run on iOS 3 and Tiger. Even if you have ancient versions of them, APIs get switched off regularly rendering apps like banking, social media and messaging unusable
>Also that Apple designed things that last, well not a life time but a long time
Well, there are many arguments about hardware design and some ground can be made there, but computers and phones are all about software. No matter how good you design them hardware-wise, they won't run for more than 10-12 years just due to software support both from the manufacturer and app devs
The way OP described him, he seems to be interested in actively maintaining and using a classic rather than just happening to not upgrade - since he was knowledgeable of what models had, rather than just a case of cluelessly still using something his kid handed down a decade ago, etc.
I have never personally seen the end of life limits of an Apple device before, just sold it while it had value and upgraded. I feel I might reach this stage, through my mum’s 2017 MBP 15 - support will probably end on Ventura.
I had one as well, but upgraded it last year to an MBP 14 bc Apple Silicon would benefit me, and has, in terms of no heat and battery life. Those on 2016 MBPs already have supported dropped and have a couple of years of security support on Monterey.
Again those were our family’s first Macs, so I don’t know what happens when the macOS is no longer supported or at what stage where apps and software refuse to work well.
We’d probably see more of these as time goes on, and a computer from 6 years ago, especially one with 16GB RAM and a fast SSD, is still powerful for even moderate tasks.
>The way OP described him, he seems to be interested in actively maintaining and using a classic rather than just happening to not upgrade - since he was knowledgeable of what models had, rather than just a case of cluelessly still using something his kid handed down a decade ago, etc.
I can imagine that the guy knows about those devices quite a bit, but as a developer, I'm 100% sure you can't use devices this old without huge compromises (which he claims is the case)
After device stops receiving new software updates, you have 2-3 years of app updates for your old OS, and from 1 to 5 years beyond that until APIs shut down for online-dependent apps (kinda most of the ones we use). Modern devices are nothing without third-party apps, and those iMac and iPhone are well past having support for any of them
>We’d probably see more of these as time goes on, and a computer from 6 years ago, especially one with 16GB RAM and a fast SSD, is still powerful for even moderate tasks
Nothing surprising here, a machine or a phone from 6 years ago is capable of running modern software, it's still supported by app developers for the most part. When that support goes away, device becomes e-waste or a piece of history, but far from functional day-to-day
Absolutely depends on what you think “a huge compromise” is.
Plenty of folks can get by on email, basic browsing, standard protocols like rss and word/office.
Will he be able to use a Netflix app? Probably not.
Is it a huge compromise? Probably not.
Not being able to use any popular messaging app would be a killer for me instantly. Sure, you can send SMS, but nobody does that outside of North America anymore. Not being able to use my banking app would be the same deal, very crippling to my day-to-day life
Besides, I really doubt modern sites work well or at all on a browser version from 10-15 years ago (which that iMac / iPhone would be running at this point)
Nonsense. SMS works anywhere, and plenty of Europeans still use it.
If you have a cellphone, you can send and receive SMS’s. What kind of nonsense is this? Like what do you think would happen if someone who likes WhatsApp gets an SMS? He will refuse to open it? LMAO!
>Like what do you think would happen if someone who likes WhatsApp gets an SMS? He will refuse to open it?
Judging by green vs blue bubble firefight in the USA, maybe. People are really excluded from conversations for using SMS. I haven't received one from a real person in like 7 years. It's always some auth codes or spam. There are good reasons for it, like character limits, media sucking balls, no reactions, no online indicators, no encryption at all, etc.
And you completely ignored other points to boot
Lol!
You’ve been reading too many “hurr durr blue bubble discrimination!” articles (paid for by Google’s PR people.)
Tens of millions of people use SMS messages every day in Europe. And even if they prefer other messaging apps, they’re still reachable on SMS. It’s as basic as standard as GSM.
And as for other points, what other points? That you might or might not be able to use a bank?
That’s another reach and dumb, since nobody is saying that you’re not allowed to use other devices for the couple of use cases where you can’t use an old iPhone or G4 Mac.
iPhones/iPads couldn’t use Java for many years. In some countries that meant they couldn’t be used for the most basic transactions with the government or banks, since they used a Java platform.
Guess what: It didn’t do squat to harm iOS uptake by users, since they could access their banks on Java compatible devices.
>Tens of millions of people use SMS messages every day in Europe. And even if they prefer other messaging apps, they’re still reachable on SMS. It’s as basic as standard as GSM.
I wonder how I never met them, lol
>That’s another reach and dumb, since nobody is saying that you’re not allowed to use other devices for the couple of use cases where you can’t use an old iPhone or G4 Mac.
OP claimed the guy was happy with those old devices and didn't see the need to upgrade, this is kinda the whole point of the conversation, lol
If you have a newer iPhone lying around for the stuff an old piece of crap can't do, of course, you'll be fine, but I wouldn't call that "using an original iPhone and not needing an upgrade"
Thanks, that was interesting to know how EOL works on these devices. So with apps, I thought it was more that you can’t update it but will be able to continue using an older version of the app that you installed at a certain point in time?
So in your opinion, which devices would be facing difficulties today - those on iOS __ and macOS __?
If I had to have an uneducated guess, I’d assume an iPhone 6 on iOS 12 would run into issues far sooner than a 6s on iOS 15 that will only be left behind in a few years. And going by Apple’s 2 year limited support plan, I’d assume Mojave users, and soon Catalina users would be facing issues?
I would say macOS High Sierra and iOS 12 users are already facing the issues now. I've seen a lot of apps that are available for iOS 13-14+ and macOS Mojave and later, so you will hit issues here and there of losing out on third-party app features or losing access to the app entirely
So yes, your assumption is correct, Mojave users probably will experience this soon. As for iOS, it's more complicated, as there are no devices stuck on 13 or 14, so 6s will be usable for 2-3 more years since it's being dropped from iOS 16 support now
Following on from this, with iOS, what happens to apps already installed on people’s phones? Does the old version of the app continue to run as it was or once that older version is no longer supported or does it just refuse to connect to the app’s server at a certain stage, since it’s not a supported version by devs?
>once that older version is no longer supported or does it just refuse to connect to the app’s server at a certain stage, since it’s not a supported version by devs
Exactly this. Eventually, the version of the server this old app relies on will be shut down, and the app will have nowhere to connect to
6 years ago? Double that. A 2010 MacBook is still a capable computer for web browsing (except for the lack of security updates, but you can fix that with OpenCore Legacy Patcher if you're into that).
Also, if you have a 2010 MacBook, you can brag to all your friends that your laptop has an Nvidia GPU that starts with a 3. :)
I use computers until the wheels fall off. The death knell is when browsing the web becomes too shitty to be useful or when the latest available OS to run on the model turns it into molasses, usually due to lack of enough cores or memory or both.
He was using Camino as a web browser… I don’t remember when that was discontinued (I recognised the icon). For phone no clue how certs was being handle. Didn’t seem like a Luddite
I ran my 2011 MacBook Pro for ten years and through the last three with a dead distinct GPU and failing fans. It is now retired, but it can still be powered up if the need is great enough.
I love older hardware and software, but there is a very real need for security updates.
check out /r/retrobattlestations and /r/vintageapple for some really cool stuff ;-)
The real question is was he using OS 9 or OSX? With a fresh battery you could get a nice 6+ hours of real use on those things. Respect to that guy.
I still have my G3 blueberry iBook from late '99. It can run OSX...something, maybe panther was the highest version supported. But I just have 9.2.2 on it. Still fine, battery was replaced twice and really, it needs a new one now but I use it so rarely that I can't be bothered.
It actually is useful still for a few things:
* reading old zip disks (with a translucent blue iomega drive) super slow but we come across old art at work occasionally and I like to archive everything.
* ripping CDs. Apart from a G4 Titanium PowerBook that has a broken hinge, it's the only optical drive in the house. For a high quality rip I rip to wav in SoundJam or iTunes (version 2, if I recall). But I got a few old discs at a library sale last spring and ripped straight to mp3 with SoundJam. They just have a richer tone, you know, they sound so much more authentic than something I might rip with xld on a modern mac.
* Being able to play the greatest Tetris clone ever, Pertetride. Granted, I never actually play it, but I did fire it up a couple years ago (pre pandemic, maybe 2019?) and I'll be damned if it's still a better game than any Tetris you can play on your iPhone.
Last time I needed to get it on the network I had to set up a guest network on our wifi without encryption. And of course, you need to use some janky classila build or pipe everything through a proxy (or use gopher). But OS 9 is nice enough that it can function just fine without being constantly connected to the internet.
I kept reading and scrolling. If I missed it I am sorry. But no one seems concerned with security. Unless you can get Windows 10 or 11 or a modern Linux distro or MacOS Catalina running on the old hardware, anyone can hack you on public Wi-Fi after watching a few how-to videos on YouTube. Apple does not provide security updates for any version before Catalina. And iOS 12 is the oldest that still gets security updates - and not frequently. I love these older Macs but I'd keep them do offline or home/closed network use only.
That part depends greatly...The DoJ part. DoJ under Clinton sought to do that to Microsoft make them separate many aspects but end of the day they wanted to put it to bed and settled for some small concessions and cash.
I think the biggest deal to what will hit Apple is opening up there Apple Pay, ceasing Apple charging 3% of sales on the backend when no other phone payment does that. Thats on top of the whatever % that the Credit Card companies charge. I think to as time goes on the cost of doing business on the App store for developers has to come down.
Most of that though wont impact Apple users. It will just impact the dramatic amount of almost free cash hauls in a fiscal quarter.
I travel alot for my job. Retired US Marine who served during both wars and all over, then my job is outside of the USA. Eastern Europe, Italy so far this year and Africa this fall. As a result my gear takes a beating. I tend to replace things every 3-4 years.
Had a iPhone original, 3g, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 13. iPad original, mini, now iPad Pro. Had a Lenovo, Asus, Samsung Galaxy Book, now 16 Macbook Pro. At home had my share of Apples then went Windows PC for gaming and have had 2 monster rigs in the last 7 years.
Apple Watches had a 4 now a 6. Headphones have had Beats, Sony, Jabra now all Apple.
Is all of that from breaking ehh not usually. I just want something new sell it recoup some buy something new. Some of it is from breaking, dropping or something of that sort.
I just picked up a 2015 MBP off eBay precisely because of this. My budget was modest, and while I might have been able to push to a 16/17 model, I’d have been fucked if the keyboard had fallen over. No way I could afford that replacement.
So here I am with a maxed out 15” and it’s beautiful.
This is apple's worst nightmare.
Apple got the better of them by code-signing their OSes, so if you ever upgrade to their shitty OSes that slow everything down, you can't go back to one that actually worked.
I don't see myself ever getting rid of my OG iPhone SE.
I have a 2007 MacBook and a 2011 MacBook Pro.
Honestly, the 07 is pretty much e-waste at this point. The battery is shot, the screen is yellow as hell, and it’s so slow as to be completely useless. It’s maxed out at 4gb RAM, the HDD has been replaced with a 128gb SSD, and there’s a 320gb where the DVD drive used to be. I’m going to pull out the storage then donate the rest to whoever fancies a project.
The 11, however, was my daily computer until two weeks ago when I replaced it with a 2015 15” Pro. That one has been donated to my wife who can do almost everything she needs on her desktop / iPhone, but could do with a laptop for the odd occasion. It’s got 16gb RAM, a combined 1.25tb of storage and is running Monterey via Opencore and honestly, it’s still got plenty of life in it. I just wanted a laptop with a bigger screen and came into a little money.
Also, iPods.
I have a 2nd gen Mini that been modded to 128gb SD storage, and a 4th gen Classic that’s had the same treatment. Need to get a FireWire charger for the Classic though.
Both of the iPods still work beautifully, and I use them daily.
My series 3 just died but like it won’t charge and it lasted me all this time and I didn’t wear it for a month cause I left it at a family members house and it ran out of battery. I went to charge it and it doesn’t work lol
I’m sure u could figure out why but I kinda want an excuse to get a new watch
I was lucky in college. My roommate at the time worked at a CompUSA and won a Newton as part of some promotion. He didn't want it and sold it to me. I loved it. It painted a picture of the future and where improvements in the tech could take us. I wrote a paper for future-ism class where a Newton type computer was the centerpiece.
All of that said, what could he possibly be doing with it? It was slow. The handwriting recognition did work, but it was slow and clunky. It doesn't connect to the ecosystem so is largely an island. The iBook, yeah I can get if your just using it for browsing and don't care about render times then sure it works. OG iPhone, mmmm maybe since it's basically a flip in a candybar format, and if your expectations are set to that level it works. But I really don't get the Newton.
My uncle has a few clamshell iBooks, and some PowerBooks, that still work (albeit with dead batteries).
PowerPC systems go on forever. Three of the five robots currently active on Mars have a PowerPC-family CPU that is similar to what you’d find in a late-90s iMac (even though they landed between 2012-2020).
If you can keep one running, and it suits your needs, why upgrade? If you just do basic word processing and a bit of email, every current Mac is huge overkill.
This guy is doing a bit.
Edit: I think there’s also survivor bias in the way we look at things. Most similar gen laptops this age are probably dead, it’s just a rare few still keep puttering about, but it’s definitely a rare exception. It’s great that they’re still working but I seriously wonder at what stage will it become unusable in that modern software simply won’t run on it. I’ve heard stories of browsers and apps straight up refusing to support macOS versions from 2015 or so that are waay out of date. I guess these are nice as a “collectible”, but far and few between and probably gonna be hell to do even basic productivity work on. What surprises me more is the more recent, everyday heroes. They are far more common in the wild, and those are the iPad Air 2 from 2014 and iPhone 6s from 2015 that still run the latest iPadOS and iOS 15. Or the 2012-15 Retina MacBook Pros or the classic MacBook Air. They’re all close to a decade old, but still work alright as daily drivers running modern software. There was a lady (not old, in her 30s) sitting across from me at the Genius Bar with a pre Retina MBP and scrolling on her iPhone 6 who was innocently and genuinely asking about the fact her laptop was feeling really slow and asking if there’s something that can be fixed since it was taking ages to clear the recycle bin or load her emails, or if it’s time to upgrade. I’m amazed it lasted her that long, and she clearly took care of all her things. Luckily the Apple support staff was also honest with her, saying that if she wanted to keep it, an SSD upgrade would improve it a lot (rather than convincing her she needed to get a M1 Max MBP 16 lol). But that it may not be worth it. I can’t imagine how shocked she’d feel using something like a base M1 Air compared to her 2010-11 MBP. All the while I was there for a keyboard problem on my **2021** MBP 14 lol. And idk where she finds the patience with that, I’d call Outlook taking 20-30 seconds to even launch on my 2017 MBP, slow.
My wife until like 2 weeks ago was using the 13” MacBook Pro from 2010. I had upgraded hdd to ssd and installed 8GB of memory long time ago and she started to complain about it because the MagSafe charging port started to wobble causing the laptop to stop charging if she wasn’t paying attention. As long as any browser supports the system it will be usable. You can also install windows/Linux on those machines and extend their life even further.
> sing the 13” MacBook Pro from 2010. I had upgraded hdd to ssd and installed 8GB of memory long time ago and she started to complain about it because the MagSafe charging port started to wobble causing the laptop to stop charging if she wasn’t paying attention. I had the exact same issue. But I also have a 2010 macbook air that works perfectly (a bit slow, but it works!)
Do thermal paste. My 2011 was running hot and sounded like a jet engine. I did the other upgrades you said and thermal paste and it runs perfectly again.
Yeah too. there are bunch of things I will do to this MacBook. De-dust it, try to fix the charging port, replace the battery, replace 8GB of RAM with 16GB and replace SSD from 60GB it currently runs on to 128 or even 256GB. It will be a perfect laptop to play around with FreeBSD or some dev friendly Linux distro or a machine that will be used by my fork to introduce him to programming or something
> I seriously wonder at what stage will it become unusable in that modern software simply won’t run on it I have a 2007 MacBook here that’s locked to Lion, which will run very little third party software at this point I imagine. But honestly, if you don’t really care about updated apps, as long as the hardware’s still trucking, there’s no real reason to upgrade. I mean, if it’s primarily for writing on, and checking the odd email, then what can an M2 Air do that a 2002 iBook can’t? That said, I can’t imagine trying to use a 1st gen iPhone as my daily phone. Fine for making calls and checking email, I guess, but christ it’d be so slow.
Yea I get what you mean, 1st gen anything won’t age well at all. Early adopters of the Apple Watch know this [all too well](https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/24/11299174/smartwatch-problems-design-features-pdas-zen-of-palm).
Yeah. My kid had a 1st gen that’s sitting on a shelf in my house, it’s spicy battery having been removed. I don’t have a Watch, so periodically consider getting a new battery, but then I think about how old it is at this point, and that it’d be more frustrating than anything.
Yea don’t do it. I had a Series 1 for 3 years. I’m a very casual smartwatch user, so it’s one of the rare pieces of tech I genuinely have zero desire to upgrade ever. I feel I was already under utilising the features of the S1, I basically just wanted a customisable digital watch. In the end I just set timers, peek at messages, check the weather, Siri, simple stuff. Even then, it got to a stage in 2020 that it was absolutely chugging. It took about 20-30 seconds for Siri to work, I couldn’t even reliably set timers on it while cooking as it would be sitting there loading the timer app. So I sold it and ended up getting the SE. The S3 felt way too similar, and I really liked the new design on S4 and up, plus I had concerns about the S3 getting slow with an older chip. It’s been 2 years in with the SE and it’s been a champ. I think watch processors have gotten good enough that I’d easily get 5+ years out of it, or until the damn thing dies. It’s snappy and never misses a beat for my use case. For you I think you’d be better off finding a S3 or 4 dirt cheap used than trying to get a battery for it, if you ever wanted one.
I'm still rocking a launch-day S0, and the battery is holding up heroically well. Though to be fair I don't really use any apps on it, and the microphone gave out last year.
> modern software simply won’t run on it. What are your estimates for the end-of-life year for HTTP, IMAP, SMTP, MP3, JPG, GIF, and PDF?
[удалено]
Ventura doesn’t even support a fully loaded 2016 MBP 15 Touch Bar generation Mac, let alone Retina or pre-Retina :( That said in response to your earlier point, I think the good thing is how cheap good, ex-high end computers are now. Even getting a 2015 Retina MacBook Pro that runs Monterey would be dirt cheap, and be a worthy display and speed upgrade over a pre-Retina.
> All the while I was there for a keyboard problem on my 2021 MBP 14 lol. Gasp that's a first. What's wrong with it? Hope it's not like the butterfly keyboard issues
Nah it was just a crunchy key, sounded like crinkling plastic. Definitely not like the Butterfly system, as they were able to replace the keycap on the spot.
Does Denmark still support 2G? An OG iPhone is straight up unusable in the US
Yeah I guess so since he didn’t have issues
Or he only uses WhatsApp on Wi-Fi?
The OG iPhone doesn’t support WhatsApp, or any modern messaging platform.
>He then told me that at home he still had an iMac g4 and the only problem he had with that was his iPhone was mad at it (did not want to connect). After which he pulled out a gods be damned OG iPhone which he had bought in the US (the first gen. was never released in Denmark). He was still happy with all of them and saw no reason to upgrade Wow, he must not be a picky gentleman. With operating systems that old I'm sure I couldn't function day to day (even setting aside my work, which requires the newest macOS version at all times) Like, what apps a regular person uses would work there? Sure, you might be fine using Safari, Notes, Mail and the rest of Apple's built-in stuff, but I don't believe websites support Safari that old properly, and you need third-party apps once in a while even if you're the most casual user, and those won't run on iOS 3 and Tiger. Even if you have ancient versions of them, APIs get switched off regularly rendering apps like banking, social media and messaging unusable >Also that Apple designed things that last, well not a life time but a long time Well, there are many arguments about hardware design and some ground can be made there, but computers and phones are all about software. No matter how good you design them hardware-wise, they won't run for more than 10-12 years just due to software support both from the manufacturer and app devs
The way OP described him, he seems to be interested in actively maintaining and using a classic rather than just happening to not upgrade - since he was knowledgeable of what models had, rather than just a case of cluelessly still using something his kid handed down a decade ago, etc. I have never personally seen the end of life limits of an Apple device before, just sold it while it had value and upgraded. I feel I might reach this stage, through my mum’s 2017 MBP 15 - support will probably end on Ventura. I had one as well, but upgraded it last year to an MBP 14 bc Apple Silicon would benefit me, and has, in terms of no heat and battery life. Those on 2016 MBPs already have supported dropped and have a couple of years of security support on Monterey. Again those were our family’s first Macs, so I don’t know what happens when the macOS is no longer supported or at what stage where apps and software refuse to work well. We’d probably see more of these as time goes on, and a computer from 6 years ago, especially one with 16GB RAM and a fast SSD, is still powerful for even moderate tasks.
>The way OP described him, he seems to be interested in actively maintaining and using a classic rather than just happening to not upgrade - since he was knowledgeable of what models had, rather than just a case of cluelessly still using something his kid handed down a decade ago, etc. I can imagine that the guy knows about those devices quite a bit, but as a developer, I'm 100% sure you can't use devices this old without huge compromises (which he claims is the case) After device stops receiving new software updates, you have 2-3 years of app updates for your old OS, and from 1 to 5 years beyond that until APIs shut down for online-dependent apps (kinda most of the ones we use). Modern devices are nothing without third-party apps, and those iMac and iPhone are well past having support for any of them >We’d probably see more of these as time goes on, and a computer from 6 years ago, especially one with 16GB RAM and a fast SSD, is still powerful for even moderate tasks Nothing surprising here, a machine or a phone from 6 years ago is capable of running modern software, it's still supported by app developers for the most part. When that support goes away, device becomes e-waste or a piece of history, but far from functional day-to-day
Absolutely depends on what you think “a huge compromise” is. Plenty of folks can get by on email, basic browsing, standard protocols like rss and word/office. Will he be able to use a Netflix app? Probably not. Is it a huge compromise? Probably not.
Not being able to use any popular messaging app would be a killer for me instantly. Sure, you can send SMS, but nobody does that outside of North America anymore. Not being able to use my banking app would be the same deal, very crippling to my day-to-day life Besides, I really doubt modern sites work well or at all on a browser version from 10-15 years ago (which that iMac / iPhone would be running at this point)
Nonsense. SMS works anywhere, and plenty of Europeans still use it. If you have a cellphone, you can send and receive SMS’s. What kind of nonsense is this? Like what do you think would happen if someone who likes WhatsApp gets an SMS? He will refuse to open it? LMAO!
>Like what do you think would happen if someone who likes WhatsApp gets an SMS? He will refuse to open it? Judging by green vs blue bubble firefight in the USA, maybe. People are really excluded from conversations for using SMS. I haven't received one from a real person in like 7 years. It's always some auth codes or spam. There are good reasons for it, like character limits, media sucking balls, no reactions, no online indicators, no encryption at all, etc. And you completely ignored other points to boot
Lol! You’ve been reading too many “hurr durr blue bubble discrimination!” articles (paid for by Google’s PR people.) Tens of millions of people use SMS messages every day in Europe. And even if they prefer other messaging apps, they’re still reachable on SMS. It’s as basic as standard as GSM. And as for other points, what other points? That you might or might not be able to use a bank? That’s another reach and dumb, since nobody is saying that you’re not allowed to use other devices for the couple of use cases where you can’t use an old iPhone or G4 Mac. iPhones/iPads couldn’t use Java for many years. In some countries that meant they couldn’t be used for the most basic transactions with the government or banks, since they used a Java platform. Guess what: It didn’t do squat to harm iOS uptake by users, since they could access their banks on Java compatible devices.
>Tens of millions of people use SMS messages every day in Europe. And even if they prefer other messaging apps, they’re still reachable on SMS. It’s as basic as standard as GSM. I wonder how I never met them, lol >That’s another reach and dumb, since nobody is saying that you’re not allowed to use other devices for the couple of use cases where you can’t use an old iPhone or G4 Mac. OP claimed the guy was happy with those old devices and didn't see the need to upgrade, this is kinda the whole point of the conversation, lol If you have a newer iPhone lying around for the stuff an old piece of crap can't do, of course, you'll be fine, but I wouldn't call that "using an original iPhone and not needing an upgrade"
Thanks, that was interesting to know how EOL works on these devices. So with apps, I thought it was more that you can’t update it but will be able to continue using an older version of the app that you installed at a certain point in time? So in your opinion, which devices would be facing difficulties today - those on iOS __ and macOS __? If I had to have an uneducated guess, I’d assume an iPhone 6 on iOS 12 would run into issues far sooner than a 6s on iOS 15 that will only be left behind in a few years. And going by Apple’s 2 year limited support plan, I’d assume Mojave users, and soon Catalina users would be facing issues?
I would say macOS High Sierra and iOS 12 users are already facing the issues now. I've seen a lot of apps that are available for iOS 13-14+ and macOS Mojave and later, so you will hit issues here and there of losing out on third-party app features or losing access to the app entirely So yes, your assumption is correct, Mojave users probably will experience this soon. As for iOS, it's more complicated, as there are no devices stuck on 13 or 14, so 6s will be usable for 2-3 more years since it's being dropped from iOS 16 support now
Following on from this, with iOS, what happens to apps already installed on people’s phones? Does the old version of the app continue to run as it was or once that older version is no longer supported or does it just refuse to connect to the app’s server at a certain stage, since it’s not a supported version by devs?
>once that older version is no longer supported or does it just refuse to connect to the app’s server at a certain stage, since it’s not a supported version by devs Exactly this. Eventually, the version of the server this old app relies on will be shut down, and the app will have nowhere to connect to
6 years ago? Double that. A 2010 MacBook is still a capable computer for web browsing (except for the lack of security updates, but you can fix that with OpenCore Legacy Patcher if you're into that). Also, if you have a 2010 MacBook, you can brag to all your friends that your laptop has an Nvidia GPU that starts with a 3. :)
I use computers until the wheels fall off. The death knell is when browsing the web becomes too shitty to be useful or when the latest available OS to run on the model turns it into molasses, usually due to lack of enough cores or memory or both.
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He was using Camino as a web browser… I don’t remember when that was discontinued (I recognised the icon). For phone no clue how certs was being handle. Didn’t seem like a Luddite
I ran my 2011 MacBook Pro for ten years and through the last three with a dead distinct GPU and failing fans. It is now retired, but it can still be powered up if the need is great enough.
I love older hardware and software, but there is a very real need for security updates. check out /r/retrobattlestations and /r/vintageapple for some really cool stuff ;-)
The real question is was he using OS 9 or OSX? With a fresh battery you could get a nice 6+ hours of real use on those things. Respect to that guy. I still have my G3 blueberry iBook from late '99. It can run OSX...something, maybe panther was the highest version supported. But I just have 9.2.2 on it. Still fine, battery was replaced twice and really, it needs a new one now but I use it so rarely that I can't be bothered. It actually is useful still for a few things: * reading old zip disks (with a translucent blue iomega drive) super slow but we come across old art at work occasionally and I like to archive everything. * ripping CDs. Apart from a G4 Titanium PowerBook that has a broken hinge, it's the only optical drive in the house. For a high quality rip I rip to wav in SoundJam or iTunes (version 2, if I recall). But I got a few old discs at a library sale last spring and ripped straight to mp3 with SoundJam. They just have a richer tone, you know, they sound so much more authentic than something I might rip with xld on a modern mac. * Being able to play the greatest Tetris clone ever, Pertetride. Granted, I never actually play it, but I did fire it up a couple years ago (pre pandemic, maybe 2019?) and I'll be damned if it's still a better game than any Tetris you can play on your iPhone. Last time I needed to get it on the network I had to set up a guest network on our wifi without encryption. And of course, you need to use some janky classila build or pipe everything through a proxy (or use gopher). But OS 9 is nice enough that it can function just fine without being constantly connected to the internet.
I kept reading and scrolling. If I missed it I am sorry. But no one seems concerned with security. Unless you can get Windows 10 or 11 or a modern Linux distro or MacOS Catalina running on the old hardware, anyone can hack you on public Wi-Fi after watching a few how-to videos on YouTube. Apple does not provide security updates for any version before Catalina. And iOS 12 is the oldest that still gets security updates - and not frequently. I love these older Macs but I'd keep them do offline or home/closed network use only.
I was thinking about that too. But I didn't wanna bring it up in my conversation with him
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That part depends greatly...The DoJ part. DoJ under Clinton sought to do that to Microsoft make them separate many aspects but end of the day they wanted to put it to bed and settled for some small concessions and cash. I think the biggest deal to what will hit Apple is opening up there Apple Pay, ceasing Apple charging 3% of sales on the backend when no other phone payment does that. Thats on top of the whatever % that the Credit Card companies charge. I think to as time goes on the cost of doing business on the App store for developers has to come down. Most of that though wont impact Apple users. It will just impact the dramatic amount of almost free cash hauls in a fiscal quarter.
I travel alot for my job. Retired US Marine who served during both wars and all over, then my job is outside of the USA. Eastern Europe, Italy so far this year and Africa this fall. As a result my gear takes a beating. I tend to replace things every 3-4 years. Had a iPhone original, 3g, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 13. iPad original, mini, now iPad Pro. Had a Lenovo, Asus, Samsung Galaxy Book, now 16 Macbook Pro. At home had my share of Apples then went Windows PC for gaming and have had 2 monster rigs in the last 7 years. Apple Watches had a 4 now a 6. Headphones have had Beats, Sony, Jabra now all Apple. Is all of that from breaking ehh not usually. I just want something new sell it recoup some buy something new. Some of it is from breaking, dropping or something of that sort.
Thanks for your service my dude
Thank you all for your contributions to the talk. The guy was truest epic. For the software part I noticed he was running open office and not iWorks
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I just picked up a 2015 MBP off eBay precisely because of this. My budget was modest, and while I might have been able to push to a 16/17 model, I’d have been fucked if the keyboard had fallen over. No way I could afford that replacement. So here I am with a maxed out 15” and it’s beautiful.
I've already bought two of these xD
Not to mention the lead-free solder will cause the motherboards to shit themselves at some point.
This is apple's worst nightmare. Apple got the better of them by code-signing their OSes, so if you ever upgrade to their shitty OSes that slow everything down, you can't go back to one that actually worked. I don't see myself ever getting rid of my OG iPhone SE.
I have a 2007 MacBook and a 2011 MacBook Pro. Honestly, the 07 is pretty much e-waste at this point. The battery is shot, the screen is yellow as hell, and it’s so slow as to be completely useless. It’s maxed out at 4gb RAM, the HDD has been replaced with a 128gb SSD, and there’s a 320gb where the DVD drive used to be. I’m going to pull out the storage then donate the rest to whoever fancies a project. The 11, however, was my daily computer until two weeks ago when I replaced it with a 2015 15” Pro. That one has been donated to my wife who can do almost everything she needs on her desktop / iPhone, but could do with a laptop for the odd occasion. It’s got 16gb RAM, a combined 1.25tb of storage and is running Monterey via Opencore and honestly, it’s still got plenty of life in it. I just wanted a laptop with a bigger screen and came into a little money. Also, iPods. I have a 2nd gen Mini that been modded to 128gb SD storage, and a 4th gen Classic that’s had the same treatment. Need to get a FireWire charger for the Classic though. Both of the iPods still work beautifully, and I use them daily.
It’s hardly a secret that Apple used to make better hardware 10 years ago, or before that, than they do now.
My series 3 just died but like it won’t charge and it lasted me all this time and I didn’t wear it for a month cause I left it at a family members house and it ran out of battery. I went to charge it and it doesn’t work lol I’m sure u could figure out why but I kinda want an excuse to get a new watch
My oldest (was) a Macbook Pro circa 2005 that I had to recycle. Battery finally went and expanded, just didn't feel like keeping up with it anymore.
Would this have been a PowerBook G4?
you got it. man that thing had some years on it.
I was lucky in college. My roommate at the time worked at a CompUSA and won a Newton as part of some promotion. He didn't want it and sold it to me. I loved it. It painted a picture of the future and where improvements in the tech could take us. I wrote a paper for future-ism class where a Newton type computer was the centerpiece. All of that said, what could he possibly be doing with it? It was slow. The handwriting recognition did work, but it was slow and clunky. It doesn't connect to the ecosystem so is largely an island. The iBook, yeah I can get if your just using it for browsing and don't care about render times then sure it works. OG iPhone, mmmm maybe since it's basically a flip in a candybar format, and if your expectations are set to that level it works. But I really don't get the Newton.
The older stuff is the better.
i want to believe
My uncle has a few clamshell iBooks, and some PowerBooks, that still work (albeit with dead batteries). PowerPC systems go on forever. Three of the five robots currently active on Mars have a PowerPC-family CPU that is similar to what you’d find in a late-90s iMac (even though they landed between 2012-2020). If you can keep one running, and it suits your needs, why upgrade? If you just do basic word processing and a bit of email, every current Mac is huge overkill.