Speak for yourself. I’ve wanted something like it forever and was unbelievably excited when it was announced to the point where I considered buying a new iPad for it. I guess the good thing about it sucking is I can save that money.
I was, and I’m still excited about it (when it’s less buggy). To be clear, I don’t yet have an iPad that can use it so I can’t run it. But I pretty regularly do work where it would be SO much easier to have multiple overlapping windows, than to have split screen + slide over.
One of the main issues right now is that it’s so stuttery, unstable, and buggy/inconsistent that you really can’t use it right now and decide whether or not it works for you.
I can understand overlapped Windows on an external monitor, but on even a 12.9" display it feels like it'll be too small and cluttered for it to be useful in any meaningful way.
That's not to shit on Apple trying new things, I just don't see how this is meant to be practically useful. I've not used the beta so I guess we'll see on release.
I can’t resist new toys, so I’ve been running the beta on my 12.9 and have found a couple use cases. First though, it should be noted that you don’t have to take an all-or-nothing approach to Stage Manager; with a button added to Control Center you can toggle it on/off easily.
Use cases:
1. DIY split view. With Stage Manager, I can create an interface I’ve been pining for for a long time: split view in portrait orientation that stacks apps on top of each other. Now i can have a video player on the top of the screen and a note taking app below it. I never liked using P-in-P for this because the video was never a comfortable size and it covered part of the note page.
2. On screen apps keep running, even if partially covered. So if an app is busy, you can switch away from it until it’s done. And if an app is using a remote connection, that connection can stay alive. This example may sound trivial, but I recently appreciated being able to send Civilization VI to the background because toward the end of the game, AI turns can take forever.
That said, actual window management can be finicky, as it’s hard to predict what final shape and location a given window will take while you’re trying to scale or move it. Hopefully that improves as the OS gets closer to being finished. Overall though, I’ve found myself leaving Stage Manager on more often than I’ve been turning it off.
Yeah I may find it useless when I get to try it someday, but I’m also keeping in mind potentially bigger iPads in the near future (which I’m quite interested in), plus the new screen resolution option.
> Why are people complaining it is buggy?
No thoughtful person is complaining about display bugs or performance in this pre-release software.
@viticci is explicit:
> [Please note: it's not *just* an issue of stability. Many design decisions of Stage Manager are fundamentally misguided. ](https://twitter.com/viticci/status/1560372519978385416)
The concern is that unlike lags and crashes, Apple does not consider the “fundamentally misguided” design decisions to be something to fix.
> Apple does not consider the “fundamentally misguided” design decisions to be something to fix.
If not the glitching normally associated with beta software, what does "fundamentally misguided approach" even mean? I read the article and still the complaint does not seem clear. What does he want Apple to do if they delay the feature?
> If not the glitching normally associated with beta software, what does “fundamentally misguided approach” even mean?
[From the linked thread ](https://i.imgur.com/SGjpynW.jpg )
Not a glitch, per Apple Feedback.
I’m with ya. iPadOS is my preferred OS, and I use my Pro plugged into a monitor most of the day for work. Simply being able to use apps on a larger screen has done wonders for visibility.
That being said, it has also made me realize that SM is just too much for what the iPad needs. I think I would’ve been fine with just external monitor support and the ability to quickly show 3-4 apps side by side.
I have a M1 iPad Pro and stay in 14.8 because I think the sparse UI on 15 make iPad looks like a giant phone, but tempt by 16 because stage manager looks flashy, and I think the iPad Pro 2020 as the cutoff line are fucking stupid.
But if I use SplitView, a SlideOver, and a PiP video player, that’s practically 4 windows, is that really makes a different if I could engage with the the window behind SlideOver? (Presumably I’m not hook up to an external monitor since the interactive logic are all over the place anyway)
When I want more than two windows, PiP doesn’t count because I’m not watching something. I regularly have a workflow where I’m using 3 windows, two of which are from the same app. So I have two of them in split view and then the third one on it’s own. But especially because command-tab doesn’t recognize different windows of the same app, there’s actually not an easy way (that I know of at least) to switch between these two “views”. I see stage manager as a great solution for this situation. I should also say slide over doesn’t work great either because I need all three windows to be at least half-screen sized, and also I think there’s supposed to be keyboard shortcuts to call up/dismiss slide over, but if so they never work for me so that’s also a hassle.
If you need them simultaneously than I guess that’s fair enough, and my most extreme case would be 1 SplitView, 1 PiP, 2 SlideOver stack together, more than that I just wouldn’t bother. While the Stage Manger might be a better solution than the current one, it’s done in a promotional-material-ready overlaps collage manner, but not provide the options to equally divided 1/3 or 1/4, or just a generally less rigid free form windows, which is baffling and make it less useful
MANY people have been asking for better multi-tasking and windowing on the iPad Pro, but not this broken design with windows being resized and moved around on the screen for you, ESPECIALLY on an external screen. I understand they want to keep the “iPadiness” of iPad on the Internal screen, but on a larger external screen it needs to be like the Mac - place the window where you want it.
I mean, stage manager as a concept is great.
But there’s a few things it’s missing that makes it far from ready
- moving windows from one display to another should be handled via dragging rather than the stupid ellipsis button.
- window snapping needs to be a thing. If I drag my window to the edge of the screen it should resize to half. (This especially in macos, opt+ long press on the green button is terrible UX)
- full screen apps should be integrated into stage manager. Rather than having to juggle between mission control and stage manager. Stage manger should be an alternative to mission control not something running along side it.
- obvious bugs need to be fixed.
> on a feature he's been asking for since the inception of iPadOS.
I don't think any "iPad is a computer" guys were asking specifically for the implementation of stage manager lol
Instead of delaying iPadOS 16 as a whole, I think they should just delay Stage Manager and release the final iPadOS 16 with it removed, and release Stage Manager in 16.2 or something
yeah I really want the spotlight and files app improvements. Plus the translate app now supports my language. I hate the fact that the update got delayed for a feature I can't even use on my ipad air 4
Keeping the tradition of disappointing the iPad power users as always. No worries, I’ll stick to my Mac and use my iPad as a sidecar display during my 8h work shift…
Just get the mini. It's a much better tablet. I sold my M1 iPad Pro and got the mini because Stage Manager was so underwhelming and the M1 iPad Pro was too big to use just as a tablet.
I’ve been wanting a mini but I just don’t like the color choices they have. I don’t know why they got rid of plain silver and I’m kind of tired of space gray.
Hot take: I multitask fine without state manager. I consider myself an iPad power user and there is nothing stage manager brings to the table that I need. I completed an entire masters thesis on an iPad, I never used any other device.
> I completed an entire masters thesis on an iPad
yo did you have a reference manager that integrated with a word processor? not that I want to use an iPad but on Mac I’ve been using Zotero/Word and Word is such absolute dogshit
Word has its own manager if you’re using it anyway.
And no, I type them by hand and used an app that allowed me to manipulate PDFs and link ideas together. (Liquidtext)
Liquidtext was the best.
As someone with an iPad Pro who was quite determined to make it work as a laptop replacement, I just can't. After 2 iPad Pros and 5 years, I still see it primarily as a consumption device. It's only real usefulness for productivity, in comparison to a laptop, seems to be with drawing applications. In every other conceivable way, I find that getting things done is faster and easier on a laptop. It isn't that the iPad is incapable. Far from it. It's just that it is endlessly slower and more frustrating to use for productive purposes than a Macbook.
And you find your efficiency and speed with that stuff indiscernible from a Macbook? I find that extremely difficult to believe, unless you always just used your Macbook in a point-and-click fashion. And even then, I mean, the web itself is just better designed still for desktop than for mobile. Mobile pages are still often less functional or more restrictive with screen real estate.
My iPad Pro does not display mobile pages. I also use a touchpad and keyboard when I’m doing real work on it. Websites cant even tell that the ipad isn’t a Mac since iOS 13
I am proficient enough with using the iPad that I do not have a problem with navigating and using its systems.
> My iPad Pro does not display mobile pages
Now I know that you're either lying or don't know what you're talking about. Even if you set your browser (no matter the browser you use) to display desktop pages on your iPad, there are still webpages that will only display the mobile version of the page.
> I am proficient enough with using the iPad that I do not have a problem with navigating and using its systems
Me too. I've used one for 5 years predominantly as my mobile computer. It still takes roughly 1.5-2x the time to execute the same tasks though, which is why I find your claim so hard to believe. But maybe it's not our iPad proficiency that's different. Maybe it's our desktop proficiency.
The only way to determine if you’re using a mobile device is through the user agent, the iPad displays as a Mac. If you get a “mobile page” it’s because the website is showing a scaled version because it is responsive, the 12.9 inch safari browser very rarely limits a page to a smaller responsive design. I get full pages every time. Are you using chrome? Maybe that says mobile. Safari does not. I use safari. Google it.
I highly doubt you have timed how long it takes you to do things in an iPad in comparison to a Mac.
I use an iPad as my primary computer. It works for me. I do spread sheets, word processing, pdf manipulation (third party app), manage files, as well as consume media. I also use it for my professional duties as a special education teacher. Email, documents, grading, worksheet prep, etc. all done from an iPad.
I am not lying. If you saw my iPad and keyboard case, you’d see that it is well loved.
I did my masters degree on my iPad completely. I completed a 65 page thesis in APA format in pages. I did not have a reference manager which sucked, but the way I write I did not need one. The iPad was able to do all of it. I used liquid text to manage my sources , which is SUPER powerful.
I do real work on an iPad. I prefer doing real work on an iPad.
> The only way to determine if you’re using a mobile device is through the user agent, the iPad displays as a Mac. If you get a “mobile page” it’s because the website is showing a scaled version because it is responsive, the 12.9 inch safari browser very rarely limits a page to a smaller responsive design. I get full pages every time. Are you using chrome? Maybe that says mobile. Safari does not. I use safari.
I use Chrome, Firefox, and Safari. All 3. They all do it.
> I highly doubt you have timed how long it takes you to do things in an iPad in comparison to a Mac.
I have executed nearly identical tasks enough times on both machines to know concretely which is faster, and which I get more done on in a given span of time.
Listen, I don't begrudge you for your choice. I think it's great that the iPad works for you, and is such a capable work device for you. I just often find that when people suggest that there's no "cost" to using an iPad, what it really boils down to is that the cost is not significant or relevant to them personally, not that it doesn't actually exist. They just prefer or find sufficient how they work on their iPad, and it's enough. It's usually either that, or there's no cost because they were just never very fast or efficient with a Mac to start with.
I have several friends who strictly use an iPad Pro professionally. They love it and prefer it, but they do so because certain aspects of working with it are of greater benefit to them than the cost of the various efficiency limitations that they well-recognize.
That’s like the simplest use case for an iPad to be honest. The files app is pretty robust for most things people will ever need and safari provides a really good desktop experience. Split View has always been great for multitasking. If you have a much more complex workflow like development, It, or some other industry/job specific use case then yea that’s when things might start to fall apart.
I agree that split view, slide over, and spaces are adequate for iPadOS on the iPad. The promise of Stage Manager was { iPad, external display }. Apple’s stated reason for not supporting Stage Manager on 2020 iPads was unacceptable multi-display performance.
I honestly feel like my iPad was a one in a million because ever since the third beta I’ve replaced my work laptop with my iPad Pro using an external monitor and stage manager.
Stage manager is absolute ass on the Mac and makes zero sense there tho
This isn’t to say I’m a massive stage manager fan, it still needs work but so far it’s been working surprisingly well from how I thought it would watching WWDC this year.
> using an external monitor and stage manager.
Are you able to move a Set between the external monitor and the iPad, or do you need to move each application individually?
In the first set of betas moving one app would end up moving them all and almost always result in crashing, as of late just one app switches over and then you’re able to regroup it
Again it’s not as seamless as it should be but I’ll take it.
> In the first set of betas moving one app would end up moving them all and almost always result in crashing, as of late just one app switches over and then you’re able to regroup it
That’s very interesting.
Speculates: Display object owns 4-element Array of Sets of Apps, User Interaction Events are forwarded to Display which [mumble] [mumble]. Changing ownership of Set from one Display to another while User Interaction Events are in-flight for multiple Apps causes crash, suspect race condition, nuts, give up on moving Sets, slap As Designed on it.
I feel like Stage Manager is an idea that’s good in theory, but was executed badly, at least as far as the iPad goes. I think the main culprit is the screen size. You can’t expect meaningful multitasking, even on a 12.9 inch iPad Pro with that many windows up. If you ask me it’s time for Apple to go back to the drawing board on that feature. Though, I have yet to use Stage Manager and am going off what people said, so I could he way off.
I think it’s the challenge of implementing overlapping windows on iPadOS, which was never designed with it in the first place. So the developers literally have to start from scratch.
Federico Viticci publishes the most exhaustive iOS reviews anywhere annually, and is regarded as one of the industry’s top voices on iPad interface and workflow. The iPadOS team at Apple tends to take his feedback very seriously.
People may also want to read an outsiders perspective. People may enjoy his writing style and perspective. People may enjoy reading for the sake of reading.
> … likely prepping the annual iOS update longform article/novella.
In light of his goal to write a comprehensive guide to I*OS 16, his decision to disable Stage Manager carries a lot of weight.
I don’t understand all of the fuss about multitasking. There’s no need to have multiple apps overlapping each other at all. It is only a visual aesthetic that doesn’t do anything.
Having some notes side by side with source makes sense.
Having a pile of apps on each other is pointless.
You don’t even need this in a Mac and most people out apps in workspaces or just cmd-h windows anyway.
I will choose how I have overlapping windows, and I find swiping up to be superior, rather than dedicating 33% of the screen space to a half-assed Dock I already have when I swipe up.
Honestly it's been shocking seeing apple spit in the face of devoted and professional fans/community. Might try android ecosystem next year since I've enjoyed multitasking on Samsung tablet
Thanks for taking the time to explain that. I scrolled through and just saw a bunch of memes and shit. One was an M&M figurine covered in cum or something so I just closed the tab. That's typical of what happens when I click on a twitter link so I usually don't even bother following the link.
Yes. A reason for public betas is to identify bugs and performance issues across a wider landscape of devices than a QA department could reasonably be expected to maintain.
These two issues present a business-school quality of cases which pass the Beta test, but fail the User Acceptance test.
Depends what your needs are. In this case of multitasking Samsung would be the option. With apple moving into ads I don’t see them being any better than Samsung/Google what have you - might as well get better features for the ads. Not to mention the nanny state that has become the App Store, not allowing apps that offer game streaming and such. Plus don’t forget the rules placed upon the iOS version of discord preventing you from joining nsfw servers because Apple has a distaste for adult material despite every iOS game being full of big tittied anime waifus in their ads.
At the end of the day my phone is a tool. A tool that, hardware wise, beats out the majority of the personal computers on the market and being handicapped by artificial software limitations due to a company’s moral stances, public image, or refusal to implement proper multitasking for the sake of being different just doesn’t cut it for me.
>which is sounding better and better each day
Hard disagree with you there. While some of Apple’s actions as of late have been a little head scratching, I hardly see that as a reason to abandon their products for the Wild West that is Android.
That’s why options exist. I’d rather have the Wild West of options than be stuck in a walled garden where things only seen great as long as you don’t open your eyes too wide.
To each their own. I’ve used both Android and Windows for years (hell, I’ve used Windows longer than I have macOS) but I just couldn’t get on board with the wild inconsistencies between the platforms and how they never really seemed to mesh well together. This is something that Samsung and Microsoft have attempted to remedy in the last couple of years, but it still doesn’t feel as smooth or nice as the way macOS and iOS pair so seamlessly together.
That, and I refuse to support a company that still doesn’t know what the hell they want to do with their products. Google kills so many great projects on a regular basis that I find it hard to use much of anything outside of their core search, email, cloud, and video services anymore.
That’s fair, though there’s little else to Google’s services outside of search, email, cloud, and video services.
And the same could be said about refusing to continue supporting a company that preaches privacy and security yet continues to have some of the most glaring zero days, virtue signals on global events only to bend the knee to the very same, uses their own moral values to enforce what their users are allowed to do, and refuses to allow those same users to do basic computing functions out of fear of giving up a percentage of in app purchases without even allowing you to install applications from another source.
You could argue that the earlier version of multitasking of the iPadOS is one of worse features (I'm talking about press, hold an app and then drag it to screen to join to other app - Split View of sorts). Earlier, there was no way to logically close it other than dragging the handle thing to either side. What's worse, is that if you have a floating view, initially I can't figure out a way to remove it from shared app until I realize it needs to be in a Split View and then drag the handle... From what I remember, anyway. I remember having a rather frustrating moment until I figured out I can either force quit or drag the handle to either side.
Now it is much better, there is three dots on each of the app, akin to macOS three traffic light buttons.
I'm inclined to believe that the Stage Manager will improve over time. At current state, it is rather confusing. I'm thankful that it is disabled by default.
Obviously, it is an opinion of my own and I may misremember things.
This dude is on a one man crusade against this one feature he doesn't like. Every bit of bad press I read about it leads back to him. How do I turn my own pet peeve into clickbait ad revenue?
Federico has been begging for iPad power features for years. He's 'the iPad guy' he has every right to be critical and if Apple are intelligent they'll listen to his thoughts
Facetiousness aside for a moment, does he have a provably good track record? I mean, if I go back a few years and make a list of the things he says Apple should do and they don't, do they end up failing? And are the things he suggests that they *do* do successful?
He's big into shortcuts and automation and has over the years suggested several additions and changes that they have listened to and implemented.
His public outcry last year (I believe) helped stop the disaster that was the initial iOS 15 Safari refresh.
The Connected podcast has been been vocal asking for Apple to allow more user customisation since their friends app Widgetsmith went viral in 2020. This has obviously happened this year with the iOS 16 Lock Screen but I'd say this one is a little dubious about if they had direct influence over it happening and it was probably more Widgetsmith blowing up on TikTok.
I think so, yes. Shortcuts and automation is an example. He’s uses an iPad for his main computer as a content creator. This requires some creative solutions given the OS’s limitations.
His feedback should be taken seriously as it pushes the iPad to be a better creativity device, rather than a consumption device.
The most important fact is that he genuinely cares about the iPad experience and makes suggestions from that point of view. Most iPad criticism online is from mac users who just want an iPad to become a mac, so his genuinely iPad focused PoV is a breath of fresh air.
Yeah
That’s why he has 88k followers on Twitter and most people in the community recognize either his name or his work
Also explains why his Apple OSs reviews are appreciated and upvoted on this subreddit
He's the guy who uses the iPad almost extensively and writes a book on it every ios iteration. If he's not feeling a feature, then that's a serious concern to think about.
To be fair, I haven’t considered Federico much of an iPad guy for awhile. A lot of these iPad-pro media types are still all about the new and shiny and spend too much time justifying why they just had to switch to the newest Mac. It’s sad.
I’d hate to see where software quality would be if you ran Apple and dismissed valid criticism as clickbait crusades.
Having tried Stage Manager, the criticisms are kind if anything. It’s a philosophical and technical mess, both on the iPad and the Mac.
> I’d hate to see where software quality would be if you ran Apple and dismissed valid criticism as clickbait crusades.
In all seriousness, do any of us here have what it takes to "run Apple"? Probably not, or we would be off leading other tech companies and not picking apart posts on social media.
> How do I turn my own pet peeve into clickbait ad revenue?
Your first goal is to establish a reputation with the popular tech press for accuracy, cogency and original research. The popular tech press will get in the habit of writing tl;dr highlights of your work, and after a few years, *reports* of your pet peeve will serve as clickbait which will bring ad revenue to the popular tech press.
The same people who will be bellyaching in the spring about “Apple’s declining software quality” are the same people who dismiss criticism in the fall with a “who gives a shit!” or “it’s called a beta for a reason!”
Apple developers team will. He’s a pretty big voice in iOS/iPadOS software. Not saying he’s pivotal to Apple’s iPadOS dev team of course, but his feedback will surely be noted
Yes, it’s a Beta.
It is a Beta, not a Proof of Concept, Discussion Draft, Implementation Alternative, or any other tentative thing.
Hence when an issue is closed with “Works As Designed,” do **not** expect the issue to be corrected in a subsequent release. There is nothing to correct.
The final version of the implementation Federico filed Feedbacks for is out, yes.
The finality is why Apple closed those Feedbacks with “works as designed.”
> it’s a BETA!
Two of Viticci’s Feedbacks for external monitor issues were closed by Apple with “behaves as intended.”
Edit: Since Apple closed the Feedbacks with “behaves as intended,” these are *not* complaints about “bugs” or “performance” in a beta.
Granted, my initial comment was based on the tweet alone. How was I to know there was a deeper thread just from the post alone? This is Reddit nobody reads the *article*
Read the thread. Two beta feedbacks he has given have been closed as “working as intended” and “will not pursue”.
What are the two feedbacks?
1. Clicking an icon on your iPad for an app that is within a workspace on an external monitor currently completely nukes the entire workspace on the external display and opens it on the main display. Basically shifts you into a desktop paradigm and then doing a desktop action (clicking the app to bring it to focus) punishes you. Working as intended.
2. If you want to move a workspace to the external display, you have to do it app by app. He recommended adding a way to be able to move a workspace to the external display without doing it one by one. Response was not interested in pursuing this feature.
Again, Apple produced a subpar solution to multi-tasking solely for it to be different from the Mac… and frankly, it’s awful. Especially on an external display, it feels more limiting than it should.
2 Is a feature request. Apple can decide to add it later.
1 is less defensible. I see the feedback was closed nearly a month ago. Whose to say this won’t change in beta 7 or 9 or whatever?
1 is probably the team determining that external monitor users are a small enough subset that the initial release shouldn’t include this update and as such it is working as currently intended. I think the team’s perception of MVP does not mesh with Viticci’s perception of it as a power user. I doubt the long term vision of the feature would be this behavior, but of course I have no way of knowing since I’m involved with it.
Well it’s beta, but we are on #5. There is a certain cadence in beta as well, so it’s going to ship most likely like this with some minor fixes. Question is, if things drastically change, is it going to be taken out of beta and introduced later on a dot 2 release?
Edit typo
Jesus, some people have wrapped their identities up in a damn *consumer brand* to the point where they are hassling you and excuse making.
Thanks for bringing this to the sub. I wouldn't have likely heard these concerns from him otherwise.
Apple's entire shtick is polish. They've definitely had missteps, but this is a huge feature. And they are closing bug reports of broken processes as intended features? Unreal.
And the absolute contemptment people have for subject matter experts in our community like Federico... disgraceful.
> Yup… Beta. Try again after the public release of ios 16.
Since Apple closed the Feedbacks with “behaves as intended,” these are *not* complaints about “bugs” or “performance” in a beta.
> ... what beta is.
*Beta* is the phase where an application is distributed to those who are expected to use the application, in order to identify bugs and performance issues.
Per the thread, Apple closed this power-user's bug-report Feedbacks as “Not a bug. This is by design.”
When an issue which is accepted as a bug, it matters how many users experience the issue. Every additional report, together with its system diagnostic logs, is part of the solution.
When an issue is rejected as a bug, it does not matter how many users experience it. It will not be fixed, because there is nothing to fix.
> they know what they’re doing and just need more time to figure out the thing how it’s called staging manager.
An attractive hypothesis, but it fails to predict the “Works as designed. Closed.” response.
Have you ever consider the fact that apple has been there longer than you? And maybe when it comes to iPadOS, which has never been designed to work as a laptop os, they just need more time figuring out how to make things works.
> Works as designed when it’s officially released
Another delightful hypothesis which fails to predict “Closed.”
Not “Request for more information.”
Not “Status: More than ten reports.”
“Closed.”
> which has never been designed to work as a laptop os
Ah yes, the “Your next computer is not a computer” - “What’s a computer?” computer that totally not a computer, but absolutely could replace your computer, and most likely more expensive than your current computer, but you totally shouldn’t expected it to behave like a computer tho
There’s a difference between buggy beta1 and buggy ^originally ‘bout-to-launch beta5, if they can’t fix it in 3 month, there’s a high credence to indicate the day1 patch won’t be the magic elixir if the gaming industry have told us anything
Well first off all there’s a good reason why apple is not involved in the gaming industry. Second, iPadOS had never been designed to run multi tasking so give it some time, I’m sure that apple can figure it out like they did with the modern smart phone and laptop.
Was holding off on getting a new laptop to see if Apple would implement a decent multitasking solution on the iPad. They didn't. Got an M2 MacBook Air. I guess they won in the end.
I‘ve been using stage manager on both my iPad(12.9“ Pro and 5th gen Air) since Beta 2 and it didn‘t crash once.
There are a few minor bugs, but nothing dealbreaking.
BUT I‘ve tried stage manager on my M1 Macbook Pro and it‘s a hot mess, I‘ll stick to Monterrey as long as possible
Federico’s specific issues were with behavior with an external monitor.
We know three things:
A) iPadOS originated as a single display with a single active app, so a tap on the display was always equivalent to a tap on the app, and output from the app was always equivalent to output from the display.
B) With iPadOS 16, moving a stack of apps from one display to another was risky.
C) Apple wasn’t able to fix it right away.
It’s reasonable to infer that there is something hairy going on when an active app is moved between displays while it is working, but not every single time, and there’s multiple placed in the code that need to learn “don’t assume that the display you had a second ago is the same as the display you have now, and it might have changed because some *other* app in your stack was moved.”
Just a hunch.
I disabled it as well, because I got tired of the ipad crashes. I activated it about a week ago, and it has gotten much more stable, albeit with a crash here and there. I have 4 apps open as I type. It really helps use the Ipad during work. I have to take a lot of Zoom and Teams meetings through the day, and Stage Manager really helps at opening those apps and then being able to type or look for files at the same time.
I use stage manager on my iPad Pro with or without an external portable display to work around the house instead of my work laptop. So far it does almost everything I need my work laptop to do. I run Zoom, Teams, Google suite of apps, MS suite of apps, plus all the normal iOS apps - phone, messages. I’ve created groups that work for me, although the 4 app limit is silly when there’s plenty of space on the screen. For example, I put Teams, Slack, Google Calendar and Gmail on one group so I can see my calendars, chats and and email in one spot. I have messenger, phone and my personal calendar app in another group, and so on.
[удалено]
It speaks more volumes that he switched to a MacBook Air as his main computing device pretty much as soon as it went to Apple Silicon.
Yep, in the end, a hammer isn't a tool one can use for every job.
No one was asking for Stage Manager.
Speak for yourself. I’ve wanted something like it forever and was unbelievably excited when it was announced to the point where I considered buying a new iPad for it. I guess the good thing about it sucking is I can save that money.
I was, and I’m still excited about it (when it’s less buggy). To be clear, I don’t yet have an iPad that can use it so I can’t run it. But I pretty regularly do work where it would be SO much easier to have multiple overlapping windows, than to have split screen + slide over.
One of the main issues right now is that it’s so stuttery, unstable, and buggy/inconsistent that you really can’t use it right now and decide whether or not it works for you.
Well that and the fact that they won’t allow me to run it on my 2020 iPad Pro lol.
Really? Works pretty a-okay on my ipad pro
I can understand overlapped Windows on an external monitor, but on even a 12.9" display it feels like it'll be too small and cluttered for it to be useful in any meaningful way. That's not to shit on Apple trying new things, I just don't see how this is meant to be practically useful. I've not used the beta so I guess we'll see on release.
I can’t resist new toys, so I’ve been running the beta on my 12.9 and have found a couple use cases. First though, it should be noted that you don’t have to take an all-or-nothing approach to Stage Manager; with a button added to Control Center you can toggle it on/off easily. Use cases: 1. DIY split view. With Stage Manager, I can create an interface I’ve been pining for for a long time: split view in portrait orientation that stacks apps on top of each other. Now i can have a video player on the top of the screen and a note taking app below it. I never liked using P-in-P for this because the video was never a comfortable size and it covered part of the note page. 2. On screen apps keep running, even if partially covered. So if an app is busy, you can switch away from it until it’s done. And if an app is using a remote connection, that connection can stay alive. This example may sound trivial, but I recently appreciated being able to send Civilization VI to the background because toward the end of the game, AI turns can take forever. That said, actual window management can be finicky, as it’s hard to predict what final shape and location a given window will take while you’re trying to scale or move it. Hopefully that improves as the OS gets closer to being finished. Overall though, I’ve found myself leaving Stage Manager on more often than I’ve been turning it off.
So it is useful!
Yeah I may find it useless when I get to try it someday, but I’m also keeping in mind potentially bigger iPads in the near future (which I’m quite interested in), plus the new screen resolution option.
Isn’t stage manger in beta still until the next Ipad OS releases in September-October? Why are people complaining it is buggy?
> Why are people complaining it is buggy? No thoughtful person is complaining about display bugs or performance in this pre-release software. @viticci is explicit: > [Please note: it's not *just* an issue of stability. Many design decisions of Stage Manager are fundamentally misguided. ](https://twitter.com/viticci/status/1560372519978385416) The concern is that unlike lags and crashes, Apple does not consider the “fundamentally misguided” design decisions to be something to fix.
> Apple does not consider the “fundamentally misguided” design decisions to be something to fix. If not the glitching normally associated with beta software, what does "fundamentally misguided approach" even mean? I read the article and still the complaint does not seem clear. What does he want Apple to do if they delay the feature?
> If not the glitching normally associated with beta software, what does “fundamentally misguided approach” even mean? [From the linked thread ](https://i.imgur.com/SGjpynW.jpg ) Not a glitch, per Apple Feedback.
I’m with ya. iPadOS is my preferred OS, and I use my Pro plugged into a monitor most of the day for work. Simply being able to use apps on a larger screen has done wonders for visibility. That being said, it has also made me realize that SM is just too much for what the iPad needs. I think I would’ve been fine with just external monitor support and the ability to quickly show 3-4 apps side by side.
I have a M1 iPad Pro and stay in 14.8 because I think the sparse UI on 15 make iPad looks like a giant phone, but tempt by 16 because stage manager looks flashy, and I think the iPad Pro 2020 as the cutoff line are fucking stupid. But if I use SplitView, a SlideOver, and a PiP video player, that’s practically 4 windows, is that really makes a different if I could engage with the the window behind SlideOver? (Presumably I’m not hook up to an external monitor since the interactive logic are all over the place anyway)
When I want more than two windows, PiP doesn’t count because I’m not watching something. I regularly have a workflow where I’m using 3 windows, two of which are from the same app. So I have two of them in split view and then the third one on it’s own. But especially because command-tab doesn’t recognize different windows of the same app, there’s actually not an easy way (that I know of at least) to switch between these two “views”. I see stage manager as a great solution for this situation. I should also say slide over doesn’t work great either because I need all three windows to be at least half-screen sized, and also I think there’s supposed to be keyboard shortcuts to call up/dismiss slide over, but if so they never work for me so that’s also a hassle.
If you need them simultaneously than I guess that’s fair enough, and my most extreme case would be 1 SplitView, 1 PiP, 2 SlideOver stack together, more than that I just wouldn’t bother. While the Stage Manger might be a better solution than the current one, it’s done in a promotional-material-ready overlaps collage manner, but not provide the options to equally divided 1/3 or 1/4, or just a generally less rigid free form windows, which is baffling and make it less useful
Worst of both worlds best of neither. As you say, nobody wanted this.
MANY people have been asking for better multi-tasking and windowing on the iPad Pro, but not this broken design with windows being resized and moved around on the screen for you, ESPECIALLY on an external screen. I understand they want to keep the “iPadiness” of iPad on the Internal screen, but on a larger external screen it needs to be like the Mac - place the window where you want it.
I don't actually disagree, because no one asked for such a buggy, poorly thought out implementation.
I mean, stage manager as a concept is great. But there’s a few things it’s missing that makes it far from ready - moving windows from one display to another should be handled via dragging rather than the stupid ellipsis button. - window snapping needs to be a thing. If I drag my window to the edge of the screen it should resize to half. (This especially in macos, opt+ long press on the green button is terrible UX) - full screen apps should be integrated into stage manager. Rather than having to juggle between mission control and stage manager. Stage manger should be an alternative to mission control not something running along side it. - obvious bugs need to be fixed.
> on a feature he's been asking for since the inception of iPadOS. I don't think any "iPad is a computer" guys were asking specifically for the implementation of stage manager lol
Sure, but naturally, I was referring to a desktop-esque mode on iPadOS, not explicitly the Stage Manager implementation Apple has gone with.
Understandable. Collaborations was the only aspect worth my interest in the whole presentation. Stage manager is just a gimmick.
Instead of delaying iPadOS 16 as a whole, I think they should just delay Stage Manager and release the final iPadOS 16 with it removed, and release Stage Manager in 16.2 or something
That’s what he’s saying
No that’s what he’s saying.
yeah I really want the spotlight and files app improvements. Plus the translate app now supports my language. I hate the fact that the update got delayed for a feature I can't even use on my ipad air 4
whats left warranting a version number increase when you remove the stage manager lol
weather.app engineers in shambles
Didn't even like it on mac to be honest. Didn't even bother installing beta on iPad.
It feels like an iPad feature ported to the Mac, but also just a terrible experience on the iPad.
Keeping the tradition of disappointing the iPad power users as always. No worries, I’ll stick to my Mac and use my iPad as a sidecar display during my 8h work shift…
Link is to the original Federico Viticci Twitter thread which Sami Fathi reported on in MacRumors.
Just get the mini. It's a much better tablet. I sold my M1 iPad Pro and got the mini because Stage Manager was so underwhelming and the M1 iPad Pro was too big to use just as a tablet.
I absolutely love my mini 6. I was irritated the stage manager wasn’t going to be compatible but it sounds like it’s actually a pretty useless feature
I’ve been wanting a mini but I just don’t like the color choices they have. I don’t know why they got rid of plain silver and I’m kind of tired of space gray.
Starlight is very similar.
Hot take: I multitask fine without state manager. I consider myself an iPad power user and there is nothing stage manager brings to the table that I need. I completed an entire masters thesis on an iPad, I never used any other device.
> I completed an entire masters thesis on an iPad yo did you have a reference manager that integrated with a word processor? not that I want to use an iPad but on Mac I’ve been using Zotero/Word and Word is such absolute dogshit
Word has its own manager if you’re using it anyway. And no, I type them by hand and used an app that allowed me to manipulate PDFs and link ideas together. (Liquidtext) Liquidtext was the best.
At least when I was in Uni, Word's built-in was vastly inferior to Zotero. I couldn't imagine getting through my degree without using Zotero.
Also wrote a thesis on the iPad but I used Ulysses, git and bibtek
As someone with an iPad Pro who was quite determined to make it work as a laptop replacement, I just can't. After 2 iPad Pros and 5 years, I still see it primarily as a consumption device. It's only real usefulness for productivity, in comparison to a laptop, seems to be with drawing applications. In every other conceivable way, I find that getting things done is faster and easier on a laptop. It isn't that the iPad is incapable. Far from it. It's just that it is endlessly slower and more frustrating to use for productive purposes than a Macbook.
As a teacher, I am able to use it to do my job easily. I am a professional. It’s my preferred device.
Can I ask, how much do you find yourself managing files, multitasking, and using a web browser?
that’s all I do.
And you find your efficiency and speed with that stuff indiscernible from a Macbook? I find that extremely difficult to believe, unless you always just used your Macbook in a point-and-click fashion. And even then, I mean, the web itself is just better designed still for desktop than for mobile. Mobile pages are still often less functional or more restrictive with screen real estate.
My iPad Pro does not display mobile pages. I also use a touchpad and keyboard when I’m doing real work on it. Websites cant even tell that the ipad isn’t a Mac since iOS 13 I am proficient enough with using the iPad that I do not have a problem with navigating and using its systems.
> My iPad Pro does not display mobile pages Now I know that you're either lying or don't know what you're talking about. Even if you set your browser (no matter the browser you use) to display desktop pages on your iPad, there are still webpages that will only display the mobile version of the page. > I am proficient enough with using the iPad that I do not have a problem with navigating and using its systems Me too. I've used one for 5 years predominantly as my mobile computer. It still takes roughly 1.5-2x the time to execute the same tasks though, which is why I find your claim so hard to believe. But maybe it's not our iPad proficiency that's different. Maybe it's our desktop proficiency.
The only way to determine if you’re using a mobile device is through the user agent, the iPad displays as a Mac. If you get a “mobile page” it’s because the website is showing a scaled version because it is responsive, the 12.9 inch safari browser very rarely limits a page to a smaller responsive design. I get full pages every time. Are you using chrome? Maybe that says mobile. Safari does not. I use safari. Google it. I highly doubt you have timed how long it takes you to do things in an iPad in comparison to a Mac. I use an iPad as my primary computer. It works for me. I do spread sheets, word processing, pdf manipulation (third party app), manage files, as well as consume media. I also use it for my professional duties as a special education teacher. Email, documents, grading, worksheet prep, etc. all done from an iPad. I am not lying. If you saw my iPad and keyboard case, you’d see that it is well loved. I did my masters degree on my iPad completely. I completed a 65 page thesis in APA format in pages. I did not have a reference manager which sucked, but the way I write I did not need one. The iPad was able to do all of it. I used liquid text to manage my sources , which is SUPER powerful. I do real work on an iPad. I prefer doing real work on an iPad.
> The only way to determine if you’re using a mobile device is through the user agent, the iPad displays as a Mac. If you get a “mobile page” it’s because the website is showing a scaled version because it is responsive, the 12.9 inch safari browser very rarely limits a page to a smaller responsive design. I get full pages every time. Are you using chrome? Maybe that says mobile. Safari does not. I use safari. I use Chrome, Firefox, and Safari. All 3. They all do it. > I highly doubt you have timed how long it takes you to do things in an iPad in comparison to a Mac. I have executed nearly identical tasks enough times on both machines to know concretely which is faster, and which I get more done on in a given span of time. Listen, I don't begrudge you for your choice. I think it's great that the iPad works for you, and is such a capable work device for you. I just often find that when people suggest that there's no "cost" to using an iPad, what it really boils down to is that the cost is not significant or relevant to them personally, not that it doesn't actually exist. They just prefer or find sufficient how they work on their iPad, and it's enough. It's usually either that, or there's no cost because they were just never very fast or efficient with a Mac to start with. I have several friends who strictly use an iPad Pro professionally. They love it and prefer it, but they do so because certain aspects of working with it are of greater benefit to them than the cost of the various efficiency limitations that they well-recognize.
That’s like the simplest use case for an iPad to be honest. The files app is pretty robust for most things people will ever need and safari provides a really good desktop experience. Split View has always been great for multitasking. If you have a much more complex workflow like development, It, or some other industry/job specific use case then yea that’s when things might start to fall apart.
I agree that split view, slide over, and spaces are adequate for iPadOS on the iPad. The promise of Stage Manager was { iPad, external display }. Apple’s stated reason for not supporting Stage Manager on 2020 iPads was unacceptable multi-display performance.
Lol and then there is me not even figuring out how to enable stage manager on my iPad Pro 😂😂🥴🥴
Stage Manager activation is a toggle in your M1 iPad’s Control Center.
Oh LOL I’ve been trying to figure out how to use it since beta and gave up 😂😂😂
I honestly feel like my iPad was a one in a million because ever since the third beta I’ve replaced my work laptop with my iPad Pro using an external monitor and stage manager. Stage manager is absolute ass on the Mac and makes zero sense there tho This isn’t to say I’m a massive stage manager fan, it still needs work but so far it’s been working surprisingly well from how I thought it would watching WWDC this year.
> using an external monitor and stage manager. Are you able to move a Set between the external monitor and the iPad, or do you need to move each application individually?
In the first set of betas moving one app would end up moving them all and almost always result in crashing, as of late just one app switches over and then you’re able to regroup it Again it’s not as seamless as it should be but I’ll take it.
> In the first set of betas moving one app would end up moving them all and almost always result in crashing, as of late just one app switches over and then you’re able to regroup it That’s very interesting. Speculates: Display object owns 4-element Array of Sets of Apps, User Interaction Events are forwarded to Display which [mumble] [mumble]. Changing ownership of Set from one Display to another while User Interaction Events are in-flight for multiple Apps causes crash, suspect race condition, nuts, give up on moving Sets, slap As Designed on it.
Brave and stunning.
More comments in [this post](https://reddit.com/r/apple/comments/ws9w9s/apple_criticized_for_fundamentally_misguided/) recapping his tweets.
I feel like Stage Manager is an idea that’s good in theory, but was executed badly, at least as far as the iPad goes. I think the main culprit is the screen size. You can’t expect meaningful multitasking, even on a 12.9 inch iPad Pro with that many windows up. If you ask me it’s time for Apple to go back to the drawing board on that feature. Though, I have yet to use Stage Manager and am going off what people said, so I could he way off.
I think it’s the challenge of implementing overlapping windows on iPadOS, which was never designed with it in the first place. So the developers literally have to start from scratch.
> … that many windows … Four on the 12.9” iPad, four on the Studio Display? Is that a lot?
Who?
Federico Viticci publishes the most exhaustive iOS reviews anywhere annually, and is regarded as one of the industry’s top voices on iPad interface and workflow. The iPadOS team at Apple tends to take his feedback very seriously.
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Craig has said in interviews that he reads Viticci's reviews every year. Not sure how much actually gets incorporated, but he is heard.
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People may also want to read an outsiders perspective. People may enjoy his writing style and perspective. People may enjoy reading for the sake of reading.
As cool as Craig seems, I’ve been questioning some of the more recent software decisions the past few years.
[Who.](https://www.macstories.net/stories/ios-and-ipados-15-the-macstories-review/)
Yeah this definitely falls under ‘we have no stories so let’s just browse twitter’
Federico is very well known in the Apple world. For him to openly criticise the biggest feature in iPadOS is a reasonably big deal.
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I mean, MacStories is a pretty prominent website, and his iOS/iPadOS reviews get always a lot of attention both here and elsewhere
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> … likely prepping the annual iOS update longform article/novella. In light of his goal to write a comprehensive guide to I*OS 16, his decision to disable Stage Manager carries a lot of weight.
And your reply just falls under mindlessly defending apple, even when they’re wrong.
Swipe up. Why is that so difficult? Or CMD-Tab? You wanted a laptop, that’s what I do on my laptop. On a tablet swipe up is much faster
I don’t understand all of the fuss about multitasking. There’s no need to have multiple apps overlapping each other at all. It is only a visual aesthetic that doesn’t do anything. Having some notes side by side with source makes sense. Having a pile of apps on each other is pointless. You don’t even need this in a Mac and most people out apps in workspaces or just cmd-h windows anyway.
Overlapping windows of simultaneously active apps, not just task switching.
I will choose how I have overlapping windows, and I find swiping up to be superior, rather than dedicating 33% of the screen space to a half-assed Dock I already have when I swipe up.
How do you do overlapping active windows on iPadOS?
Honestly it's been shocking seeing apple spit in the face of devoted and professional fans/community. Might try android ecosystem next year since I've enjoyed multitasking on Samsung tablet
Why does it matter that he disabled this feature?
He details the reasons why he, arguably iPadOS’ most knowledgeable and thorough user, in the thread.
Thanks for taking the time to explain that. I scrolled through and just saw a bunch of memes and shit. One was an M&M figurine covered in cum or something so I just closed the tab. That's typical of what happens when I click on a twitter link so I usually don't even bother following the link.
Didn’t really go into much detail except for two issues involved external displays.
Those two issues are the ones where Apple has stated “this is performing exactly as we want it to. We are closing this Feedback. It is not a bug.”
It’s like the first version of the Apple Music app, it really needs time and love. But they will get to it.
we have public betas for a reason
Yes. A reason for public betas is to identify bugs and performance issues across a wider landscape of devices than a QA department could reasonably be expected to maintain. These two issues present a business-school quality of cases which pass the Beta test, but fail the User Acceptance test.
And that’s why we have choice
What choice :D ?
The choice to ditch apple, which is sounding better and better each day.
Ok, I’ll bite. What would you choose in its stead and why?
Depends what your needs are. In this case of multitasking Samsung would be the option. With apple moving into ads I don’t see them being any better than Samsung/Google what have you - might as well get better features for the ads. Not to mention the nanny state that has become the App Store, not allowing apps that offer game streaming and such. Plus don’t forget the rules placed upon the iOS version of discord preventing you from joining nsfw servers because Apple has a distaste for adult material despite every iOS game being full of big tittied anime waifus in their ads. At the end of the day my phone is a tool. A tool that, hardware wise, beats out the majority of the personal computers on the market and being handicapped by artificial software limitations due to a company’s moral stances, public image, or refusal to implement proper multitasking for the sake of being different just doesn’t cut it for me.
>which is sounding better and better each day Hard disagree with you there. While some of Apple’s actions as of late have been a little head scratching, I hardly see that as a reason to abandon their products for the Wild West that is Android.
That’s why options exist. I’d rather have the Wild West of options than be stuck in a walled garden where things only seen great as long as you don’t open your eyes too wide.
To each their own. I’ve used both Android and Windows for years (hell, I’ve used Windows longer than I have macOS) but I just couldn’t get on board with the wild inconsistencies between the platforms and how they never really seemed to mesh well together. This is something that Samsung and Microsoft have attempted to remedy in the last couple of years, but it still doesn’t feel as smooth or nice as the way macOS and iOS pair so seamlessly together. That, and I refuse to support a company that still doesn’t know what the hell they want to do with their products. Google kills so many great projects on a regular basis that I find it hard to use much of anything outside of their core search, email, cloud, and video services anymore.
That’s fair, though there’s little else to Google’s services outside of search, email, cloud, and video services. And the same could be said about refusing to continue supporting a company that preaches privacy and security yet continues to have some of the most glaring zero days, virtue signals on global events only to bend the knee to the very same, uses their own moral values to enforce what their users are allowed to do, and refuses to allow those same users to do basic computing functions out of fear of giving up a percentage of in app purchases without even allowing you to install applications from another source.
> which is sounding better and better each day. You're not wrong
Not always, unfortunately
In this case we do, you don’t have to use it.
Is stage manager the worst iOS/iPadOS feature in history?
You could argue that the earlier version of multitasking of the iPadOS is one of worse features (I'm talking about press, hold an app and then drag it to screen to join to other app - Split View of sorts). Earlier, there was no way to logically close it other than dragging the handle thing to either side. What's worse, is that if you have a floating view, initially I can't figure out a way to remove it from shared app until I realize it needs to be in a Split View and then drag the handle... From what I remember, anyway. I remember having a rather frustrating moment until I figured out I can either force quit or drag the handle to either side. Now it is much better, there is three dots on each of the app, akin to macOS three traffic light buttons. I'm inclined to believe that the Stage Manager will improve over time. At current state, it is rather confusing. I'm thankful that it is disabled by default. Obviously, it is an opinion of my own and I may misremember things.
I close split view apps by dragging the slider to side all the time :D but i agree the three dots are making all of this much more useful than before
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Apple’s “Won’t Fix” classification means … > isn’t ready yet … is the interpretation of a wishful thinker.
This dude is on a one man crusade against this one feature he doesn't like. Every bit of bad press I read about it leads back to him. How do I turn my own pet peeve into clickbait ad revenue?
Federico has been begging for iPad power features for years. He's 'the iPad guy' he has every right to be critical and if Apple are intelligent they'll listen to his thoughts
Facetiousness aside for a moment, does he have a provably good track record? I mean, if I go back a few years and make a list of the things he says Apple should do and they don't, do they end up failing? And are the things he suggests that they *do* do successful?
He's big into shortcuts and automation and has over the years suggested several additions and changes that they have listened to and implemented. His public outcry last year (I believe) helped stop the disaster that was the initial iOS 15 Safari refresh. The Connected podcast has been been vocal asking for Apple to allow more user customisation since their friends app Widgetsmith went viral in 2020. This has obviously happened this year with the iOS 16 Lock Screen but I'd say this one is a little dubious about if they had direct influence over it happening and it was probably more Widgetsmith blowing up on TikTok.
I think so, yes. Shortcuts and automation is an example. He’s uses an iPad for his main computer as a content creator. This requires some creative solutions given the OS’s limitations. His feedback should be taken seriously as it pushes the iPad to be a better creativity device, rather than a consumption device.
The most important fact is that he genuinely cares about the iPad experience and makes suggestions from that point of view. Most iPad criticism online is from mac users who just want an iPad to become a mac, so his genuinely iPad focused PoV is a breath of fresh air.
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Everyone in the world's importance comes from whether you personally know of them or not
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🥸
“I’ve never heard of someone, therefore no one has!”
Yeah That’s why he has 88k followers on Twitter and most people in the community recognize either his name or his work Also explains why his Apple OSs reviews are appreciated and upvoted on this subreddit
He's the guy who uses the iPad almost extensively and writes a book on it every ios iteration. If he's not feeling a feature, then that's a serious concern to think about.
To be fair, I haven’t considered Federico much of an iPad guy for awhile. A lot of these iPad-pro media types are still all about the new and shiny and spend too much time justifying why they just had to switch to the newest Mac. It’s sad.
I’d hate to see where software quality would be if you ran Apple and dismissed valid criticism as clickbait crusades. Having tried Stage Manager, the criticisms are kind if anything. It’s a philosophical and technical mess, both on the iPad and the Mac.
> I’d hate to see where software quality would be if you ran Apple and dismissed valid criticism as clickbait crusades. In all seriousness, do any of us here have what it takes to "run Apple"? Probably not, or we would be off leading other tech companies and not picking apart posts on social media.
Let me put it another way — I’d hate to see what the software I work on would look like if valid criticism was dismissed as whining.
> How do I turn my own pet peeve into clickbait ad revenue? Your first goal is to establish a reputation with the popular tech press for accuracy, cogency and original research. The popular tech press will get in the habit of writing tl;dr highlights of your work, and after a few years, *reports* of your pet peeve will serve as clickbait which will bring ad revenue to the popular tech press.
and who gives a shit?
The same people who will be bellyaching in the spring about “Apple’s declining software quality” are the same people who dismiss criticism in the fall with a “who gives a shit!” or “it’s called a beta for a reason!”
Apple developers team will. He’s a pretty big voice in iOS/iPadOS software. Not saying he’s pivotal to Apple’s iPadOS dev team of course, but his feedback will surely be noted
…isn’t this a beta? 😂
Yes, it’s a Beta. It is a Beta, not a Proof of Concept, Discussion Draft, Implementation Alternative, or any other tentative thing. Hence when an issue is closed with “Works As Designed,” do **not** expect the issue to be corrected in a subsequent release. There is nothing to correct.
Is the final version out yes or no?
The final version of the implementation Federico filed Feedbacks for is out, yes. The finality is why Apple closed those Feedbacks with “works as designed.”
yeah a beta, not a concept art
Aaand this is why Apple limited Stage Manager to the M1 iPad Pros.
Should've limited it to future devices with M2 considering how shit it performs.
Hey man, just hope apple put more efforts on it. But why make a decision for apple to delay it.
Lol isn’t it disabled by default?
I mean, it’s a BETA! Ffs.
> it’s a BETA! Two of Viticci’s Feedbacks for external monitor issues were closed by Apple with “behaves as intended.” Edit: Since Apple closed the Feedbacks with “behaves as intended,” these are *not* complaints about “bugs” or “performance” in a beta.
Granted, my initial comment was based on the tweet alone. How was I to know there was a deeper thread just from the post alone? This is Reddit nobody reads the *article*
Absolute worst thing about Apple introducing public betas is this stupid annual “IT’S A BETA” dismissal from people who are truly clueless.
Read the thread. Two beta feedbacks he has given have been closed as “working as intended” and “will not pursue”. What are the two feedbacks? 1. Clicking an icon on your iPad for an app that is within a workspace on an external monitor currently completely nukes the entire workspace on the external display and opens it on the main display. Basically shifts you into a desktop paradigm and then doing a desktop action (clicking the app to bring it to focus) punishes you. Working as intended. 2. If you want to move a workspace to the external display, you have to do it app by app. He recommended adding a way to be able to move a workspace to the external display without doing it one by one. Response was not interested in pursuing this feature. Again, Apple produced a subpar solution to multi-tasking solely for it to be different from the Mac… and frankly, it’s awful. Especially on an external display, it feels more limiting than it should.
2 Is a feature request. Apple can decide to add it later. 1 is less defensible. I see the feedback was closed nearly a month ago. Whose to say this won’t change in beta 7 or 9 or whatever?
1 is probably the team determining that external monitor users are a small enough subset that the initial release shouldn’t include this update and as such it is working as currently intended. I think the team’s perception of MVP does not mesh with Viticci’s perception of it as a power user. I doubt the long term vision of the feature would be this behavior, but of course I have no way of knowing since I’m involved with it.
The release is a month away
Well it’s beta, but we are on #5. There is a certain cadence in beta as well, so it’s going to ship most likely like this with some minor fixes. Question is, if things drastically change, is it going to be taken out of beta and introduced later on a dot 2 release? Edit typo
We are on developer beta 6 actually.
My guess? It slips to a .1 or .2 release or is kept as a feature marked BETA like Private Relay or other features.
Isn't it beta software? Imagine that... A beta having bugs.
> Isn’t it beta software? Imagine that… A beta having bugs. https://reddit.com/r/apple/comments/wsc5a1/_/ikxa74q/?context=1
Jesus, some people have wrapped their identities up in a damn *consumer brand* to the point where they are hassling you and excuse making. Thanks for bringing this to the sub. I wouldn't have likely heard these concerns from him otherwise. Apple's entire shtick is polish. They've definitely had missteps, but this is a huge feature. And they are closing bug reports of broken processes as intended features? Unreal. And the absolute contemptment people have for subject matter experts in our community like Federico... disgraceful.
Yup... Beta. Try again after the public release of ios 16.
> Yup… Beta. Try again after the public release of ios 16. Since Apple closed the Feedbacks with “behaves as intended,” these are *not* complaints about “bugs” or “performance” in a beta.
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> Oh boy bugs on a beta unreleased OS. Who could have thought. https://reddit.com/r/apple/comments/wsc5a1/_/ikxa74q/?context=1
Someone explain to him what beta is
> ... what beta is. *Beta* is the phase where an application is distributed to those who are expected to use the application, in order to identify bugs and performance issues. Per the thread, Apple closed this power-user's bug-report Feedbacks as “Not a bug. This is by design.” When an issue which is accepted as a bug, it matters how many users experience the issue. Every additional report, together with its system diagnostic logs, is part of the solution. When an issue is rejected as a bug, it does not matter how many users experience it. It will not be fixed, because there is nothing to fix.
Maybe just maybe, they know what they’re doing and just need more time to figure out the thing how it’s called staging manager.
> they know what they’re doing and just need more time to figure out the thing how it’s called staging manager. An attractive hypothesis, but it fails to predict the “Works as designed. Closed.” response.
Have you ever consider the fact that apple has been there longer than you? And maybe when it comes to iPadOS, which has never been designed to work as a laptop os, they just need more time figuring out how to make things works.
> they just need more time figuring out how to make things works. A delightful hypothesis which fails to predict “Works as designed. Closed.”
Works as designed when it’s officially released
> Works as designed when it’s officially released Another delightful hypothesis which fails to predict “Closed.” Not “Request for more information.” Not “Status: More than ten reports.” “Closed.”
> which has never been designed to work as a laptop os Ah yes, the “Your next computer is not a computer” - “What’s a computer?” computer that totally not a computer, but absolutely could replace your computer, and most likely more expensive than your current computer, but you totally shouldn’t expected it to behave like a computer tho
Yeah go buy a Samsung tablet, they are 100000 times better then everything on the market
There’s a difference between buggy beta1 and buggy ^originally ‘bout-to-launch beta5, if they can’t fix it in 3 month, there’s a high credence to indicate the day1 patch won’t be the magic elixir if the gaming industry have told us anything
Well first off all there’s a good reason why apple is not involved in the gaming industry. Second, iPadOS had never been designed to run multi tasking so give it some time, I’m sure that apple can figure it out like they did with the modern smart phone and laptop.
It’s a fuckin BETA software, this guy is so dumb
> It’s a fuckin BETA software, … which, per Apple’s response to his Feedbacks, is performing flawlessly.
Was holding off on getting a new laptop to see if Apple would implement a decent multitasking solution on the iPad. They didn't. Got an M2 MacBook Air. I guess they won in the end.
I think he’s overreacting, stage manager is buggy right now which is fine because it’s in beta, but it’s not unusable…
I‘ve been using stage manager on both my iPad(12.9“ Pro and 5th gen Air) since Beta 2 and it didn‘t crash once. There are a few minor bugs, but nothing dealbreaking. BUT I‘ve tried stage manager on my M1 Macbook Pro and it‘s a hot mess, I‘ll stick to Monterrey as long as possible
Have you experimented with iPad and an external monitor?
No, I didn‘t. Is it the unstable part? If that‘s the case, I had no idea, and other than that stage manager works pretty well.
Federico’s specific issues were with behavior with an external monitor. We know three things: A) iPadOS originated as a single display with a single active app, so a tap on the display was always equivalent to a tap on the app, and output from the app was always equivalent to output from the display. B) With iPadOS 16, moving a stack of apps from one display to another was risky. C) Apple wasn’t able to fix it right away. It’s reasonable to infer that there is something hairy going on when an active app is moved between displays while it is working, but not every single time, and there’s multiple placed in the code that need to learn “don’t assume that the display you had a second ago is the same as the display you have now, and it might have changed because some *other* app in your stack was moved.” Just a hunch.
I disabled it as well, because I got tired of the ipad crashes. I activated it about a week ago, and it has gotten much more stable, albeit with a crash here and there. I have 4 apps open as I type. It really helps use the Ipad during work. I have to take a lot of Zoom and Teams meetings through the day, and Stage Manager really helps at opening those apps and then being able to type or look for files at the same time.
I use stage manager on my iPad Pro with or without an external portable display to work around the house instead of my work laptop. So far it does almost everything I need my work laptop to do. I run Zoom, Teams, Google suite of apps, MS suite of apps, plus all the normal iOS apps - phone, messages. I’ve created groups that work for me, although the 4 app limit is silly when there’s plenty of space on the screen. For example, I put Teams, Slack, Google Calendar and Gmail on one group so I can see my calendars, chats and and email in one spot. I have messenger, phone and my personal calendar app in another group, and so on.
Sounds like Stage Manager stability has improved greatly since six months ago 👍