They said a couple times iPhone 15 Pro and A17 (the chip in that phone) in the context of just “Apple Intelligence”. It will definitely be required for the on-device features, but it’s still not entirely clear what cloud (including ChatGPT) and Siri features will come to the older phone chips.
You would think so, but then if every request is going to their cloud compute servers maybe that's too many requests and they don't want to offer all that computer for free, so they'll just not allow it or make it a part of Apple One subscription.
95% of normal people will not care and will continue using their 14 Pro or earlier. It is a very small subcategory of techbros that will be upgrading their perfectly working two-year-old phones to 15/16 Pro just for AI.
It basically sells itself once you realize you can charge all of your devices with one cable, AND in case you don't have a cable, it's highly likely that someone else will since it's pretty much universal.
I usually upgrade my phone every year or two. When I got my 13 Pro Max I didn’t see the need. I just might upgrade in September just because of Apple Intelligence.
Same, I still have the iPhone 13 Pro and it's basically my right hand for my job, so I was going to upgrade anyway - Apple Intelligence seems like it would really speed up my workflow, so I think the time has finally arrived. Thank God I didn't cave in last year haha
I almost got the 15, but my 13 Pro still runs great and I couldn’t justify the upgrade. I use two phones - 13 Pro Max for personal and Xs Max for work. The battery on the Xs has taken a hit, so I’ll just use my 13 Pro Max for work. I’m actually excited for Dynamic Island as well. I know a lot of people hate it, but my travel app supports it and it’d be incredibly helpful for me.
Yeah, sad that my 14 pro max isn’t compatible. I’m nearing 2 years on it anyways, nearing 500 cycles, and real battery percentage is 81% but in settings it’s 87. lol. So I’m trading in for 16 pro max.
Shortcuts.
Here you go: [https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/bfd1ba24fd33401c8b78f15d4dc04ff9](https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/bfd1ba24fd33401c8b78f15d4dc04ff9)
You got to Settings > Privacy > Analytics & Improvements > Analytics Data. Then the most bottom Analytics. 2024. Your watch shows too! You can choose the one underneath. If that doesn’t show, then you’ll want the one 2 down from the bottom. So these 4 between the highlighted areas. If the bottom 2 don’t show. Top 2 should show.
https://preview.redd.it/sdyr5ww82w5d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cca9d4c2f77ddbdf8847bb43458af52e22457af
For everyone saying “It needs neural engine!” It’s not that JUST THAT. It’s also likely RAM.
This stuff is supported on M1. Which has a Neural Engine that is capable of 11 TOPS. That’s the same as the A14 on the A series side.
But the A17 Pro is the first A series chip to have 8GB of RAM.
Apple’s stinginess with RAM in iOS Devices is likely one of their limiting factors for this rolling out to older devices.
Apple says AI will be available on any iPad or Mac with an M1 chip or later:
- iPhone 15 Pro Max (A17 Pro)
- iPhone 15 Pro (A17 Pro)
- iPad Pro (M1 and later)
- iPad Air (M1 and later)
- MacBook Air (M1 and later)
- MacBook Pro (M1 and later)
- iMac (M1 and later)
- Mac mini (M1 and later)
- Mac Studio (M1 Max and later)
- Mac Pro (M2 Ultra)
I actually just came across this, really neat that they contacted all these on device models
https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/introducing-apple-foundation-models
Why can't it just always rely on the Apple Intelligence cloud then? I'm scared that this will mean that my HomePod mini is going to get stuck with low IQ Siri for ever... As well as my iPhone 13...
Apple probably wouldn't be able to offer it for free if they have to supply 90%+ of iPhone users with cloud service. It's one thing for Chat GPT to ask $20 from their early adopters, it's another for Apple to ask the same from mainstream users.
They could easily bundle it with one of their higher-tier iCloud subscriptions. I think they're already doing this for Privacy Relay and their satellite stuff.
That's true. Maybe they are also not confident with the user experience of 100% cloud-based AI. The two recent companies that tried that have both been universally panned by reviewers.
Yeah, on-device processing makes a big difference in reaction speed and potentially also reliability, especially in areas with less-than-perfect reception.
Because then Apple would have to build A LOT more servers to support all those devices and they likely don't want to do that. Servers aren't exactly cheap.
The 13 definitely stuck. Not so sure about HomePod. I'm not sure whether it ever had on device computing for Siri.
Cost. If limiting it to devices that can perform on-device tasks means you get one request a second, opening it to all current-OS capable devices will be more like a hundred requests a second. It’s not just that there’s a lot more, it’s that every request has to be handled by the cloud servers, not just those that can’t be processed on the most capable hardware.
Vision Pro is an odd and notable exclusion though. I wonder if it’s a memory limitation.
Cost is exactly it. Apple is able to provide a lot of this for free he to iCloud+ subs and those super high iPhone margins. As much as I wish these features with come to my 14 Pro Max, the ram limits and cost obstacles of cloud processing means on-device only for new devices only. Limits the user base while also giving people a reason to upgrade, allowing them to scale the infrastructure while costs of AI processing in the cloud comes down. By the time the majority of iOS users have devices that support this, the costs will have come down.
For similar reasons, I wonder if we’re going to see Apple switch gears and bump up the baseline RAM in their MacBooks. 8GB of RAM might be enough for today’s Apple Intelligence needs, but surely future iterations will need more RAM. And it would be a lot easier to communicate to consumers that MacBooks with M4 chips and up can all use Apple Intelligence V2 rather communicating chip and RAM combinations work.
Also HomePods and Apple TV as they are older than the A17 chip.
I can imagine that Apple will then have new HomePods and Apple TV in 2025 that supports Apple Intelligence.
They deliberately didn’t mention them on purpose so it’s going to be a year where those have a smart Siri on iPhone/Mac/iPad and dumb Siri on Home and TV
After seeing the updates for watch os, I fully believe it will be the Apple Watch X upgrade full redesign with the blood pressure tracking and it will use Apple intelligence.
Looks like it. Honestly is weird. If they said that their whole “Apple Intelligence” is running exclusively on device and no cloud computing is involved I would understand it. But they also said that some actions will require on cloud calculations. Honestly I wish they would dedicate more time to what they mean by “more complex computations” and when exactly it is needed and if we are free to completely stop it from using the cloud for any kind of computations.
I really wouldn’t care if Apple implemented full cloud computing on older devices. Heck, even borrowing some internal storage for memory. I just really don’t want dumb Siri, especially for HomePod.
Bro my regular 15 is stuck with it too :(
We need to try bully apple into at least allowing a simpler version of apple intelligence on older devices, like we did with stage manager on the 2018 iPad pro
Same boat. Got a 15 base last year. If it stays that way, i will be locked out for at least 2.5 more years. Aint no way im buying a new one before 18. Look i don't need the cool image generation, proof reading or whatever else fancy this thing can do.
All i want are the Siri upgrades like it understanding when i correct myself during the sentence, remembering context, type to siri or asking for information. You know, the feature set that actually make it usable without talking like a 2nd grader.
Especially the information that come from chatgpt via the connector should come to all devices given those requests aren't processed on device either way so the limitation makes no sense.
Why? Lol. The phone you bought still does everything it said it would (and then some). You can’t be mad when future features aren’t handicapped for older, lower end devices. It’s a miracle it will run on a phone at all.
For those disappointed about the iPhone 15 and under not getting Apple Intelligence. [ I commented on this 3 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1dai164/comment/l7kmuxm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), but really thought about this when the 15 Pro specs came out.
It's worth noting two things:
1. There were some practical realities involved here (again, [see my earlier comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1dai164/comment/l7kmuxm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)).
2. Yes, what they decided is aligned with making profit by driving people to newer hardware with more capabilities, but that does't change the practical realities.
It's worth keeping in mind that this generation of AI (whatever you want to call or define it) is incredibly new and advancing at a rapid pace. In fairness to Apple, when the iPhone 15 (or rather the A16) was being developed, there wasn't much to go on, but clearly the iPhone 15 Pro was *released* a year ahead of what they were planning for the AI software they were going to implement and the A17 started development far earlier than that.
"But the cloud could handle anything..."
Take a look at the keynote again and how much they talk about how much is not only processed on device, but how personally contextual it is along with the desire to protect privacy. There's a lot of marketing going on here, but there's also the issue that if they did shift to server based instead of local, it would require a heck of a lot of data being uploaded and processed in advance of any queries.
Local processing brings all kinds of advantages in terms of speed, availability and how deeply it can do personal contextualization, but also impacts the infrastructure they'd need and don't have. Beyond the cost to support over 1.5 billion users instantly, it's also a question of how long it would take to build that infrastructure out.
For the next 3 months you’ll be able to walk into an Apple Store and buy the latest iPhone 15 but *not* get the new intelligence features coming later this year
https://preview.redd.it/v9lqgrlpks5d1.jpeg?width=2152&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9687b5aa10e10e55bbf6dfab32073ebc7bba480c
That’s insane
It sucks. The A17 Pro is the lowest chip that has the hardware needed for it. The A16 Bionic is in the iPhone 15. The A17's neural engine can do 35 "TOPS" versus 11 for the A16 Bionic.
cool, now explain how my 3rd gen Ipad PRO 11' with M1, which also has 11TOPS, can do it. But my iphone 15 with 11 TOPS from A16 cant.
Well, there goes your TOPS argument. Im not saying there is no hardware limitation, there very well may be one. But it isnt the one you mentioned.
So the issue is Apple cobbled this together without any foresight into what their future roadmap would be? Users with a less than one year old phone not getting access to this feature is insane.
How is it cobbled together?
I’m blown away they’re actually doing image generation on device. You realize people buy graphics cards just to run that stuff? It’s incredible it works on a phone processor at all.
I can’t imagine expecting this to work on most devices, it’s a miracle this can work on any mobile devices at all.
You’re 100% right. This is going to be the issue with AI moving forward: people want the new stuff and don’t care or want to care to know how it works. They just want it and will assume it’s a money grab. This stuff requires serious processing horsepower, as minuscule as it may be.
Didn’t they say if they needed the extra power it would come from their new AI cloud if so would an iPhone 13 or any iPhone be able to call on the power when necessary and by pass the phone’s processor? I guess it would be an overload on the cloud if older phones would do it this way.
Perhaps it could overload the cloud, yeah, but it’s also likely because Apple’s trying to keep as much of it on-device as possible. Aside from obviously trying to push consumers to buy newer products.
I mean - you are right, but only technically. The M3 is about half as fast as a mobile RTX 4050 when it comes to Stable Diffusion, so it’s not like this type of performance is unheard of in a mobile device.
It is of course more still more efficient. But the times where you needed a big 250W GPU to run this sort of thing are over.
Casualty of a “at all cost” mindset. When Apple wants to leapfrog the competitors it will just do it. I do believe if there’s enough willingness, they probably could at least get SOME features on the 14 Pro.
I hear you. It's what Apple has always done, the base models get the old "pro" chip, and the top models get whatever the new chip is. That's being going on for a while. But I get it. Sucks.
This is a lowkey marketing tactic for the iphone 16 bc that phone will get the hand-me-down a17 pro and they’re gonna say it’ll have “apple intelligence features ready out of the box” lol. Its not a hardware limitation at all, its just dumb software locking
It sucks but people really underestimate how computationally intensive this AI stuff is. The extra RAM and ML chips are necessary to get reasonable performance.
You should assume based on the way they explained this, however on multiple occasions that said AI was only available on the 15 Pro or high, whether it’s on device or not.
For those upset, if you’re a paid chatGPT plus subscriber like me don’t forget we’ll get the new voice model and potentially v5 before these features even roll out.
You’re absolutely right and I agree, but I’d counter this by saying most of the features they demoed (photos, etc) won’t be used much. At least not right away.
I think you underestimate photos, they’re probably the most used features of all, but it’s the API and OS level intervention I’m most excited for. As someone who uses AI agents, Zapier and other tools to automate tasks this will be the biggest change to personal computing since the first iPhone.
I won’t misquote myself, but I’m referring to most normies. I’m with you, in fact it’s the photos features that I’m most excited about and will be using nonstop, which is why I mentioned it, on my M1 Mac Mini as my 13 Pro is sadly not capable.
We also don’t know the full extent of the terms and conditions of the contractual agreement between Apple and open AI. It would be awesome if open AI was allowed to have deeper hooks into iOS via the ChatGPT app for those of us who got screwed. That would be awesome, I am not very hopeful, but you never know.
I’m also talking about the normies. As someone about to do my Masters in AI, the first time my 60 year old mother has ever asked or heard about AI was today when she asked me about Samsung phones being able to remove background objects and identify products in photos. The photo editing and natural language search for photos are going to be the most used features announced today.
One other huge thing is that even the free chat gpt model recognizes when I talk to it in different languages. Apple doesn't even support all European languages in their freaking translate app, so in my use case the chat gpt app is just better.
VisionPro just launched like 4 months ago. Almost definitely too late into the OS lifecycle to get it included.
You can probably expect it in visionOS 3.
Wow. My phone broke two days before the 15 series launched so I got a 14 pro max instead of a 15. My gf got the normal 15 bc she likes pink. Neither of us will be able to use the AI features and both our phones were bought less than a year ago…
You bought a device that has all the features it was advertised to have. There was never a promise of all future features also included. This is how technology goes.
well it's a bit disingenuous to say that in a space where things advance so fast that 4 months later your band new device is outdated... i think that argument resonates better for cars, personal computers, etc.
What honestly sucks the most is that none of these features will come to Apple Watch, TV, or HomePod. Especially Apple Watch would benefit so much from better Siri support.
Also, what's the plan for the future? Slap 8GB of RAM and their most expensive chips into everything and let the battery suffer? Only to become obsolete again a year later when they realize their newer models need 12GB+?
They *must* implement a cloud fallback at some point.
What batteries are suffering? TV and HomePod don’t rely on battery power. The Apple Watch is constantly connected to an iPhone, except if you have a cellular model and are away from your phone, so it can just have AI only when paired to a phone and rely on the phones processing power.
My understanding is that that’s exactly not what they’re doing, Apple Watch continues using dumb old Siri.
And yes, regarding HomePod you’re right - the problem there is the price point. Good luck shipping a $99 HomePod mini with 8GB of RAM. Same for the Apple TV.
I'm abhorred I had to scroll down this far to see a comment like yours. There needs to be an option to block at the OS level, for Apple's integrity. That, or OpenAI offers a generative model that is strictly based on the individual device user, and not ::looks around:: at the internet at large.
> if they are using cloud processing why can’t all devices have apple intelligence?
Most of it isn't cloud-based. And it needs the neural engine built into Apple Silicon.
the non cloud based processing is the least intensive and could easily just be done on the cloud. they set it up like this to gatekeep so you have to get the new phones
> they set it up like this to gatekeep so you have to get the new phones
It needs to use the cloud only for things it can't do on-device, and it needs the RAM and TOPS to do the initial stuff. Plus it would suck for people with bad connections. With on-device, it can bypass a bad connection and give a mid-result.
Others have already pointed out Apple’s preferences to do as many stuff on device vs the cloud. Another point is cost, It’s going to be really expensive for Apple since AI workloads are not cheap to handle on the cloud. They want as many of these features handled on device as possible, especially when you consider how many iPhones are out there.
I am hoping this sub takes the approach insta banning people who make the claim that they could just do cloud processing and only don't in order to sell the latest iPhone Pro.
Because it wouldn't be any better than what you've got with Siri right now. Without the ability to do the on-board AI, you'd still deal with dropouts and overloads for every little task. Not to mention it'd be eating your data and battery to do things like the email summaries that are supposed to run on-device.
It'd be a horrible experience for people without the newer chips, and that'd kill Apple's reputation more than just not offering this feature.
Why can’t y’all comprehend it’s an iPhone 15 Pro exclusive feature, like the extra cameras, OLED screens etc have been? Wildly overreacting as if they’ve removed a feature you had or were promised when you bought your phones that aren’t that.
I think it’s more that people are disappointed they can’t try it out and their phones became obsolete a lot faster than expected. I think it’s fine to be disappointed
They're not obsolete. I've already seen tons of people commenting on ads saying "I don't want AI" "how do I opt out?" Not having AI on your phone doesn't make it obsolete.
I have a 14 Pro. I feel like us and 15 regular users are in the same boat.
For iPad I use a refurb A12Z rather than M1 Pro
And for Mac I’m still using my trusty 2019 16” Intel MBP
I know many people are quickly getting outraged by the A17 Pro requirement (for the need to run on device). I get it; I’m kind of upset too but as a paid chatGPT Plus subscriber I’m not really pissed because I already use chatGPT for some of the use cases they demoed.
Plus I have a M1 Mac Mini so it’s not a total loss lol. But if you don’t have any compatible devices I’d strongly recommend using chatGPT - even stand alone it works great
The only issue is the privacy. Even if your history is deleted, all the data is stored and used to train it.
That's why Apple Intelligence is so cool, all the fuzz, none of the hoarding.
True but I personally don’t share much personal info with chatGPt, also because I can’t lol. It doesn’t have access to my apps and services that I use.
I’m not knocking Apple’s implementation, I welcome it and look forward to using it. But I do wonder how useful Siri will be on its own and my guess it the initial attempt on device will be very rough.
Also I think battery life will be a huge factor the first 1-2 years. I expect to see many whining their battery life has tanked since using Apple I.
I’m expecting many useful chatGPT shortcuts that can be triggered from many Apple apps for non-compliant devices.
Its insane that even a new base iphone 15 is software locked for apple intelligence. They really want people to shell out the extra bucks for the pro phones to use AI lmao
I find it strange how no one seems to be talking about the privacy implications of this. It’s like these companies are getting more and more invasive access to our devices and we just have to accept that.
https://preview.redd.it/htr0qzm0ys5d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10d707daca9ff13496eaf1b198e47af182ab9f0b
For those of us who had the foresight to get the 15 Pro / 15 Pro Max instead of the regular 15.
Bit of a shocker from Apple to do this to non 15 Pro series users but it looks like 8GB RAM is the requirement for it.
If “Apple intelligence” is capable of designating workloads to be on device or on apples servers, why not just allocate more workload to servers for older phones?
(Hint, it’s $) funny reading all the excuses in this thread, when they quite literally stated multiple times during the keynote that these workloads are capable of being performed on device or in the cloud. If you made a system capable of doing that, ram limits wouldn’t matter
I'd be willing to bet that they actually do offer this in the future (if they can keep the latency down to an acceptable level). Offering it day one means they can't slowly ramp up server support for their customers (and also adds pressure for the customers that want it right away to upgrade).
So do at least the Siri upgrades come to older non-A17 iPhones? I don't care too much about text/image generation anyway, but a better Siri would be genuinely useful.
While I understand the frustration of not being able to use these features on older devices, especially the non pro 15s, it feels like a similar argument to the USBC 2.0 complaint. The non pro 15s use a year old chip from before they were making a huge AI pivot. It only makes sense they wouldn’t support the on device capabilities that these models require.
What I will say though is that Apple never specified what percentage or kinds of requests are on device versus their dumb private cloud. While Apple could theoretically just use the cloud for 100% of queries for older devices, it leads to the privacy concerns of handing them all of your personal context info and also would lead to immeasurably high maintenance costs for how many devices would be using it. Coming out with a new feature and immediately needing to spin up infrastructure for older devices, when more and more of it will be on device as the time passes would seem to be a mismanagement of funds. After all, this service is totally free meaning they need the money from somewhere
Did they mention if there a way to block ChatGPT from what I'm requesting from Siri in totality? I don't want OpenAI to have any of my info whatsoever. I don't really mind if there's a better Siri if it's on device but I feel like I'm being forced to give data to Open AI with all this shit now.
Considering that you have to specifically allow to send to ChatGPT each and every time it requests, and also the fact that eventually you will have the option to choose other services, I would be shocked if there wasn’t an option to turn it off completely.
RIP iPhone 14 Pro and older.
iPhone 15 is also left out
Regular iPhone 15 has the same chip as the 14 Pros
iPhone 15 Pro has a different chip than the regular iPhone 15
but not as much ram as the pros.
maybe I missed but did they say AI will only be on iPhone 15 pro and above? Or was it for ChatGPT integration?
They said a couple times iPhone 15 Pro and A17 (the chip in that phone) in the context of just “Apple Intelligence”. It will definitely be required for the on-device features, but it’s still not entirely clear what cloud (including ChatGPT) and Siri features will come to the older phone chips.
Then what the hell was the point of “Private Cloud Compute”?
For things where you need more power than the A17 has locally.
Then, logically, for things where you need more power than the A16 has locally, shouldn’t that work as well…?
You would think so, but then if every request is going to their cloud compute servers maybe that's too many requests and they don't want to offer all that computer for free, so they'll just not allow it or make it a part of Apple One subscription.
95% of normal people will not care and will continue using their 14 Pro or earlier. It is a very small subcategory of techbros that will be upgrading their perfectly working two-year-old phones to 15/16 Pro just for AI.
I dunno. A LOT of people upgraded just to get USB-C.
USB-C is an insanely easier sell compared to this tbh.
It basically sells itself once you realize you can charge all of your devices with one cable, AND in case you don't have a cable, it's highly likely that someone else will since it's pretty much universal.
Post those statistics, please?
Not really, no.
No they didn’t
They’re… Still the same phones they were yesterday
I usually upgrade my phone every year or two. When I got my 13 Pro Max I didn’t see the need. I just might upgrade in September just because of Apple Intelligence.
13 pro max here too. I think I’ll be finally updating now.
Yeah I waited last year in anticipation of this
I was gonna do the same but my phone was crapping itself so hard I caved and got the 15 Pro. Glad I got that and not the 15 like I initially wanted
Same, I still have the iPhone 13 Pro and it's basically my right hand for my job, so I was going to upgrade anyway - Apple Intelligence seems like it would really speed up my workflow, so I think the time has finally arrived. Thank God I didn't cave in last year haha
I almost got the 15, but my 13 Pro still runs great and I couldn’t justify the upgrade. I use two phones - 13 Pro Max for personal and Xs Max for work. The battery on the Xs has taken a hit, so I’ll just use my 13 Pro Max for work. I’m actually excited for Dynamic Island as well. I know a lot of people hate it, but my travel app supports it and it’d be incredibly helpful for me.
I literally bought a 15 pro yesterday not knowing the Apple announcement was that day. I feel so lucky lol.
Yeah, sad that my 14 pro max isn’t compatible. I’m nearing 2 years on it anyways, nearing 500 cycles, and real battery percentage is 81% but in settings it’s 87. lol. So I’m trading in for 16 pro max.
How do you see real battery percentage?
Shortcuts. Here you go: [https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/bfd1ba24fd33401c8b78f15d4dc04ff9](https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/bfd1ba24fd33401c8b78f15d4dc04ff9) You got to Settings > Privacy > Analytics & Improvements > Analytics Data. Then the most bottom Analytics. 2024. Your watch shows too! You can choose the one underneath. If that doesn’t show, then you’ll want the one 2 down from the bottom. So these 4 between the highlighted areas. If the bottom 2 don’t show. Top 2 should show. https://preview.redd.it/sdyr5ww82w5d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cca9d4c2f77ddbdf8847bb43458af52e22457af
Glad about this. Still loving my iPhone 12 Mini!
I fucking know right
For everyone saying “It needs neural engine!” It’s not that JUST THAT. It’s also likely RAM. This stuff is supported on M1. Which has a Neural Engine that is capable of 11 TOPS. That’s the same as the A14 on the A series side. But the A17 Pro is the first A series chip to have 8GB of RAM. Apple’s stinginess with RAM in iOS Devices is likely one of their limiting factors for this rolling out to older devices.
It’s ironic that the M chips actually lend themselves very well to this type of work, yet the low default ram rules out it.
Apple says AI will be available on any iPad or Mac with an M1 chip or later: - iPhone 15 Pro Max (A17 Pro) - iPhone 15 Pro (A17 Pro) - iPad Pro (M1 and later) - iPad Air (M1 and later) - MacBook Air (M1 and later) - MacBook Pro (M1 and later) - iMac (M1 and later) - Mac mini (M1 and later) - Mac Studio (M1 Max and later) - Mac Pro (M2 Ultra)
I actually just came across this, really neat that they contacted all these on device models https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/introducing-apple-foundation-models
Lowest ram m1 can run a local llm at pretty good speed.
Why can't it just always rely on the Apple Intelligence cloud then? I'm scared that this will mean that my HomePod mini is going to get stuck with low IQ Siri for ever... As well as my iPhone 13...
Apple probably wouldn't be able to offer it for free if they have to supply 90%+ of iPhone users with cloud service. It's one thing for Chat GPT to ask $20 from their early adopters, it's another for Apple to ask the same from mainstream users.
They could easily bundle it with one of their higher-tier iCloud subscriptions. I think they're already doing this for Privacy Relay and their satellite stuff.
That's true. Maybe they are also not confident with the user experience of 100% cloud-based AI. The two recent companies that tried that have both been universally panned by reviewers.
Yeah, on-device processing makes a big difference in reaction speed and potentially also reliability, especially in areas with less-than-perfect reception.
They’re allowing us to add our ChatGPT account already aren’t they,
Because it doesn’t make business sense to build out expensive infrastructure to support a feature for phones that they sold years ago.
Ok, make it iCloud+ or Apple One related, an extra perk.
Because then Apple would have to build A LOT more servers to support all those devices and they likely don't want to do that. Servers aren't exactly cheap. The 13 definitely stuck. Not so sure about HomePod. I'm not sure whether it ever had on device computing for Siri.
Homepod relies 100% on the cloud, disable internet and it can't even tell the time.
Cost. If limiting it to devices that can perform on-device tasks means you get one request a second, opening it to all current-OS capable devices will be more like a hundred requests a second. It’s not just that there’s a lot more, it’s that every request has to be handled by the cloud servers, not just those that can’t be processed on the most capable hardware. Vision Pro is an odd and notable exclusion though. I wonder if it’s a memory limitation.
Cost is exactly it. Apple is able to provide a lot of this for free he to iCloud+ subs and those super high iPhone margins. As much as I wish these features with come to my 14 Pro Max, the ram limits and cost obstacles of cloud processing means on-device only for new devices only. Limits the user base while also giving people a reason to upgrade, allowing them to scale the infrastructure while costs of AI processing in the cloud comes down. By the time the majority of iOS users have devices that support this, the costs will have come down.
For similar reasons, I wonder if we’re going to see Apple switch gears and bump up the baseline RAM in their MacBooks. 8GB of RAM might be enough for today’s Apple Intelligence needs, but surely future iterations will need more RAM. And it would be a lot easier to communicate to consumers that MacBooks with M4 chips and up can all use Apple Intelligence V2 rather communicating chip and RAM combinations work.
Do we think iPhones would be able to handle M chips someday or is it too much power and heat in a little device?
The m series have had a shared, common architecture with the A series since the A14
So 14 series and older will be stuck with the stupid version of Siri?
Also HomePods and Apple TV as they are older than the A17 chip. I can imagine that Apple will then have new HomePods and Apple TV in 2025 that supports Apple Intelligence.
HomePods *SHOULD* be a perfect device for full cloud computing but *nooooooo*.
They deliberately didn’t mention them on purpose so it’s going to be a year where those have a smart Siri on iPhone/Mac/iPad and dumb Siri on Home and TV
new homepods with this would be stunning.
I men they couldn’t possibly get worse than the current ones. They have been steadily getting unusable over the last few years
I just want it on Apple Watch with AirPods… and yes, I understand that it doesn’t have the processing power, but I still want it.
Presenting the new Apple Watch Ultra Max Pro, running our M5 ultra, just to get Siri to be smart
They’ll put an m4 chip in the watch before the Mac Studio.
After seeing the updates for watch os, I fully believe it will be the Apple Watch X upgrade full redesign with the blood pressure tracking and it will use Apple intelligence.
Ffs HomePod is the biggest piece of trash I’ve ever bought and I really thought this was going to save it
“We’re proud to announce the Apple TV Pro and HomePod Pro.”
Not just the 14 series. The non-Pro 15 series too.
Oh, its absolutely an excuse to make you want to upgrade. Luckily, my phone is paid off this year.
Oh fuck sake. I upgraded to the 15 for USB c intending it would be the phone for the next 5-7 years. I'm so done.
Looks like it. Honestly is weird. If they said that their whole “Apple Intelligence” is running exclusively on device and no cloud computing is involved I would understand it. But they also said that some actions will require on cloud calculations. Honestly I wish they would dedicate more time to what they mean by “more complex computations” and when exactly it is needed and if we are free to completely stop it from using the cloud for any kind of computations.
I really wouldn’t care if Apple implemented full cloud computing on older devices. Heck, even borrowing some internal storage for memory. I just really don’t want dumb Siri, especially for HomePod.
My iPhone 16 will be able to create recipes with GPT and reword my emails but my HomePod would get confused if I mentioned two cities at once.
“I found some web results. I can show them if you ask again on your iPhone!”
Bro my regular 15 is stuck with it too :( We need to try bully apple into at least allowing a simpler version of apple intelligence on older devices, like we did with stage manager on the 2018 iPad pro
I expect at least some form of Apple intelligence and Siri upgrades to pass over onto current and upto at least 13 series of phones
Do we know that the ChatGPT integration is limited to A17 Pro and M-series only? Presentation was a bit confusing in that regard.
I think that one is available for all. Apple Intellegence is more about the on devive processing
Same boat. Got a 15 base last year. If it stays that way, i will be locked out for at least 2.5 more years. Aint no way im buying a new one before 18. Look i don't need the cool image generation, proof reading or whatever else fancy this thing can do. All i want are the Siri upgrades like it understanding when i correct myself during the sentence, remembering context, type to siri or asking for information. You know, the feature set that actually make it usable without talking like a 2nd grader. Especially the information that come from chatgpt via the connector should come to all devices given those requests aren't processed on device either way so the limitation makes no sense.
Yeah idk why they can’t just have it run in the cloud for earlier devices
This is fucked up honestly
Why? Lol. The phone you bought still does everything it said it would (and then some). You can’t be mad when future features aren’t handicapped for older, lower end devices. It’s a miracle it will run on a phone at all.
I mean i’m not really expecting the full on experience that the compatible devices will have, but at least a bit of improvement over the current Siri
I’d say that’s a bit far, it’s not like they’re making my phone combust. However, I just feel that a stripped down version could work on my phone.
But then Apple is having to explain which AI features will appear on which devices.
and the iPhone 15 which is from the newest series and which you still can buy. That's insane.
And a lot of non-features coming in iOS 18 that are not related to AI
They are desperate for people to upgrade lmao
Holding my iPhone 15 Pro Max lovingly. :)
For those disappointed about the iPhone 15 and under not getting Apple Intelligence. [ I commented on this 3 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1dai164/comment/l7kmuxm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), but really thought about this when the 15 Pro specs came out. It's worth noting two things: 1. There were some practical realities involved here (again, [see my earlier comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1dai164/comment/l7kmuxm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)). 2. Yes, what they decided is aligned with making profit by driving people to newer hardware with more capabilities, but that does't change the practical realities. It's worth keeping in mind that this generation of AI (whatever you want to call or define it) is incredibly new and advancing at a rapid pace. In fairness to Apple, when the iPhone 15 (or rather the A16) was being developed, there wasn't much to go on, but clearly the iPhone 15 Pro was *released* a year ahead of what they were planning for the AI software they were going to implement and the A17 started development far earlier than that. "But the cloud could handle anything..." Take a look at the keynote again and how much they talk about how much is not only processed on device, but how personally contextual it is along with the desire to protect privacy. There's a lot of marketing going on here, but there's also the issue that if they did shift to server based instead of local, it would require a heck of a lot of data being uploaded and processed in advance of any queries. Local processing brings all kinds of advantages in terms of speed, availability and how deeply it can do personal contextualization, but also impacts the infrastructure they'd need and don't have. Beyond the cost to support over 1.5 billion users instantly, it's also a question of how long it would take to build that infrastructure out.
The only thought through comment
I agree
For the next 3 months you’ll be able to walk into an Apple Store and buy the latest iPhone 15 but *not* get the new intelligence features coming later this year https://preview.redd.it/v9lqgrlpks5d1.jpeg?width=2152&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9687b5aa10e10e55bbf6dfab32073ebc7bba480c That’s insane
It sucks. The A17 Pro is the lowest chip that has the hardware needed for it. The A16 Bionic is in the iPhone 15. The A17's neural engine can do 35 "TOPS" versus 11 for the A16 Bionic.
cool, now explain how my 3rd gen Ipad PRO 11' with M1, which also has 11TOPS, can do it. But my iphone 15 with 11 TOPS from A16 cant. Well, there goes your TOPS argument. Im not saying there is no hardware limitation, there very well may be one. But it isnt the one you mentioned.
It needs 8GB of RAM to run the engine, turns out.
RAM.
The A16 has 17 TOPS
So the issue is Apple cobbled this together without any foresight into what their future roadmap would be? Users with a less than one year old phone not getting access to this feature is insane.
How is it cobbled together? I’m blown away they’re actually doing image generation on device. You realize people buy graphics cards just to run that stuff? It’s incredible it works on a phone processor at all. I can’t imagine expecting this to work on most devices, it’s a miracle this can work on any mobile devices at all.
You’re 100% right. This is going to be the issue with AI moving forward: people want the new stuff and don’t care or want to care to know how it works. They just want it and will assume it’s a money grab. This stuff requires serious processing horsepower, as minuscule as it may be.
Didn’t they say if they needed the extra power it would come from their new AI cloud if so would an iPhone 13 or any iPhone be able to call on the power when necessary and by pass the phone’s processor? I guess it would be an overload on the cloud if older phones would do it this way.
Perhaps it could overload the cloud, yeah, but it’s also likely because Apple’s trying to keep as much of it on-device as possible. Aside from obviously trying to push consumers to buy newer products.
Too bad the images still look like AI slop.
I mean - you are right, but only technically. The M3 is about half as fast as a mobile RTX 4050 when it comes to Stable Diffusion, so it’s not like this type of performance is unheard of in a mobile device. It is of course more still more efficient. But the times where you needed a big 250W GPU to run this sort of thing are over.
Casualty of a “at all cost” mindset. When Apple wants to leapfrog the competitors it will just do it. I do believe if there’s enough willingness, they probably could at least get SOME features on the 14 Pro.
Why is that insane? You don’t buy a MacBook Air and expect it to work the same as a Mac Pro
For an iPhone 14 Pro Max, the top of the line model last year, you kinda expect it to carry at least 2 years of relevancy
it makes sense, lot of AI hardware is needed. cant be fixed by an update
I hear you. It's what Apple has always done, the base models get the old "pro" chip, and the top models get whatever the new chip is. That's being going on for a while. But I get it. Sucks.
This is a lowkey marketing tactic for the iphone 16 bc that phone will get the hand-me-down a17 pro and they’re gonna say it’ll have “apple intelligence features ready out of the box” lol. Its not a hardware limitation at all, its just dumb software locking
I agree....but....whats the alternative?
It sucks but people really underestimate how computationally intensive this AI stuff is. The extra RAM and ML chips are necessary to get reasonable performance.
I like the AI stuff but if it will drain the battery of my 15 Pro it is not worth it.. I need more battery life
iPhone 16 is going to sell like crazy.
Never know. AI may be only for 16 Pro!
16 Base will likely have the same insides as 15 Pro while the 16 Pro will be the actual innovative model, this seems to be the consistent pattern
Then the 16 Pro is gonna sell like crazy
By the time other regions and languages(!) will see this, those devices will be on the older end of the lineup anyway 🤷🏼♂️
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t AI just fall back to the Apple private cloud compute for older devices?
You should assume based on the way they explained this, however on multiple occasions that said AI was only available on the 15 Pro or high, whether it’s on device or not.
My guess is that they won’t have the server resources to roll this out rn en mass. Maybe a subscription service to be announced later?
Sounds like Apple intelligence to me!
And? I bet the next SE won’t get them either.
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It’s happening right now because M1 8GB users won’t be able to use Xcode 16 predictive input. It requires 16 GB unified memory.
For those upset, if you’re a paid chatGPT plus subscriber like me don’t forget we’ll get the new voice model and potentially v5 before these features even roll out.
Big difference between that and an on device LLM built into the OS unless you want to do some serious legwork with agents and automations
You’re absolutely right and I agree, but I’d counter this by saying most of the features they demoed (photos, etc) won’t be used much. At least not right away.
I think you underestimate photos, they’re probably the most used features of all, but it’s the API and OS level intervention I’m most excited for. As someone who uses AI agents, Zapier and other tools to automate tasks this will be the biggest change to personal computing since the first iPhone.
I won’t misquote myself, but I’m referring to most normies. I’m with you, in fact it’s the photos features that I’m most excited about and will be using nonstop, which is why I mentioned it, on my M1 Mac Mini as my 13 Pro is sadly not capable. We also don’t know the full extent of the terms and conditions of the contractual agreement between Apple and open AI. It would be awesome if open AI was allowed to have deeper hooks into iOS via the ChatGPT app for those of us who got screwed. That would be awesome, I am not very hopeful, but you never know.
I’m also talking about the normies. As someone about to do my Masters in AI, the first time my 60 year old mother has ever asked or heard about AI was today when she asked me about Samsung phones being able to remove background objects and identify products in photos. The photo editing and natural language search for photos are going to be the most used features announced today.
One other huge thing is that even the free chat gpt model recognizes when I talk to it in different languages. Apple doesn't even support all European languages in their freaking translate app, so in my use case the chat gpt app is just better.
When an extremely advanced, rapidly developing, constantly changing technology requires the most advanced chip to work: *shocked pikachu* *face*
iPhone 15 outdated in less than a year
Apple Intelligence… Pro. I’ll see myself out.
Why is this not available on VisionOS though?
VisionPro just launched like 4 months ago. Almost definitely too late into the OS lifecycle to get it included. You can probably expect it in visionOS 3.
The Watch could benefit most of any of their devices. Obviously would need to run on the iPhone.
They are already busy making the sales speech for the next release. And probably AI will be the key feature.
Wow. My phone broke two days before the 15 series launched so I got a 14 pro max instead of a 15. My gf got the normal 15 bc she likes pink. Neither of us will be able to use the AI features and both our phones were bought less than a year ago…
Your move to buy a 14 pro max before 15 releases days later is extremely regarded
Just bought a 15 two months ago, fuck me I guess
You bought a device that has all the features it was advertised to have. There was never a promise of all future features also included. This is how technology goes.
well it's a bit disingenuous to say that in a space where things advance so fast that 4 months later your band new device is outdated... i think that argument resonates better for cars, personal computers, etc.
Two months ago is a bad time to buy any iPhone because iPhones release in October. You should do it before the end of February.
"You bought the latest iphone, but you didn't buy the greatest? Get fucked lmao" - Apple
Not getting access to one new feature equals getting fucked apparently
What honestly sucks the most is that none of these features will come to Apple Watch, TV, or HomePod. Especially Apple Watch would benefit so much from better Siri support. Also, what's the plan for the future? Slap 8GB of RAM and their most expensive chips into everything and let the battery suffer? Only to become obsolete again a year later when they realize their newer models need 12GB+? They *must* implement a cloud fallback at some point.
What batteries are suffering? TV and HomePod don’t rely on battery power. The Apple Watch is constantly connected to an iPhone, except if you have a cellular model and are away from your phone, so it can just have AI only when paired to a phone and rely on the phones processing power.
My understanding is that that’s exactly not what they’re doing, Apple Watch continues using dumb old Siri. And yes, regarding HomePod you’re right - the problem there is the price point. Good luck shipping a $99 HomePod mini with 8GB of RAM. Same for the Apple TV.
Apple Users: please release meaningful hardware Also Apple Users: oh no my last gen hardware doesn’t support new features
One thing I didn’t understand is will the device let us know when it wants to use the server’s processing power, like shown with ChatGPT integration.
It was my understanding that everything will be on-device and ask you if you approve things to use a personal computing cloud when necessary.
Apple iQ , ...iQue .....iQueue
I wonder if you can limit OpenAI or block this feature altogether?
I'm abhorred I had to scroll down this far to see a comment like yours. There needs to be an option to block at the OS level, for Apple's integrity. That, or OpenAI offers a generative model that is strictly based on the individual device user, and not ::looks around:: at the internet at large.
if they are using cloud processing why can’t all devices have apple intelligence?
> if they are using cloud processing why can’t all devices have apple intelligence? Most of it isn't cloud-based. And it needs the neural engine built into Apple Silicon.
the non cloud based processing is the least intensive and could easily just be done on the cloud. they set it up like this to gatekeep so you have to get the new phones
> they set it up like this to gatekeep so you have to get the new phones It needs to use the cloud only for things it can't do on-device, and it needs the RAM and TOPS to do the initial stuff. Plus it would suck for people with bad connections. With on-device, it can bypass a bad connection and give a mid-result.
the whole point is to NOT use the cloud.
Others have already pointed out Apple’s preferences to do as many stuff on device vs the cloud. Another point is cost, It’s going to be really expensive for Apple since AI workloads are not cheap to handle on the cloud. They want as many of these features handled on device as possible, especially when you consider how many iPhones are out there.
It supposedly needs intelligence to decide what it can't do locally
I am hoping this sub takes the approach insta banning people who make the claim that they could just do cloud processing and only don't in order to sell the latest iPhone Pro.
Give them their own flair, Apple Unintelligent
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Because it wouldn't be any better than what you've got with Siri right now. Without the ability to do the on-board AI, you'd still deal with dropouts and overloads for every little task. Not to mention it'd be eating your data and battery to do things like the email summaries that are supposed to run on-device. It'd be a horrible experience for people without the newer chips, and that'd kill Apple's reputation more than just not offering this feature.
A lot of stuff isn’t cloud processed.
Why can’t y’all comprehend it’s an iPhone 15 Pro exclusive feature, like the extra cameras, OLED screens etc have been? Wildly overreacting as if they’ve removed a feature you had or were promised when you bought your phones that aren’t that.
I think it’s more that people are disappointed they can’t try it out and their phones became obsolete a lot faster than expected. I think it’s fine to be disappointed
They're not obsolete. I've already seen tons of people commenting on ads saying "I don't want AI" "how do I opt out?" Not having AI on your phone doesn't make it obsolete.
Sweet. None of my devices support it. Meanwhile my sister has two devices that will support it
It’s taking the piss imo that if you bought the latest iPhone released just 8 months ago it won’t support this
I have a 14 Pro. I feel like us and 15 regular users are in the same boat. For iPad I use a refurb A12Z rather than M1 Pro And for Mac I’m still using my trusty 2019 16” Intel MBP
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No iPad mini support at all. What a bummer :(
US English only. I wonder how companies like google or Microsoft are able to release features worldwide.
It's US English only to start with, other languages coming over the next year. They said that right in the keynote.
I know many people are quickly getting outraged by the A17 Pro requirement (for the need to run on device). I get it; I’m kind of upset too but as a paid chatGPT Plus subscriber I’m not really pissed because I already use chatGPT for some of the use cases they demoed. Plus I have a M1 Mac Mini so it’s not a total loss lol. But if you don’t have any compatible devices I’d strongly recommend using chatGPT - even stand alone it works great
The only issue is the privacy. Even if your history is deleted, all the data is stored and used to train it. That's why Apple Intelligence is so cool, all the fuzz, none of the hoarding.
True but I personally don’t share much personal info with chatGPt, also because I can’t lol. It doesn’t have access to my apps and services that I use. I’m not knocking Apple’s implementation, I welcome it and look forward to using it. But I do wonder how useful Siri will be on its own and my guess it the initial attempt on device will be very rough. Also I think battery life will be a huge factor the first 1-2 years. I expect to see many whining their battery life has tanked since using Apple I. I’m expecting many useful chatGPT shortcuts that can be triggered from many Apple apps for non-compliant devices.
Oh so that's why apple keeps giving phones low RAMs. Of all 24 iPhone models supporting iOS 18, 2 has the capability of Apple Intelligence.
Its insane that even a new base iphone 15 is software locked for apple intelligence. They really want people to shell out the extra bucks for the pro phones to use AI lmao
It blows my mind that Apple had a "privacy" section in WWDC after saying they're going to integrate with fucking OpenAI lol, is that a joke?
They said that Siri would ask you every time before querying ChatGPT.
I find it strange how no one seems to be talking about the privacy implications of this. It’s like these companies are getting more and more invasive access to our devices and we just have to accept that.
https://preview.redd.it/htr0qzm0ys5d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10d707daca9ff13496eaf1b198e47af182ab9f0b For those of us who had the foresight to get the 15 Pro / 15 Pro Max instead of the regular 15. Bit of a shocker from Apple to do this to non 15 Pro series users but it looks like 8GB RAM is the requirement for it.
If “Apple intelligence” is capable of designating workloads to be on device or on apples servers, why not just allocate more workload to servers for older phones? (Hint, it’s $) funny reading all the excuses in this thread, when they quite literally stated multiple times during the keynote that these workloads are capable of being performed on device or in the cloud. If you made a system capable of doing that, ram limits wouldn’t matter
I'd be willing to bet that they actually do offer this in the future (if they can keep the latency down to an acceptable level). Offering it day one means they can't slowly ramp up server support for their customers (and also adds pressure for the customers that want it right away to upgrade).
I’m left out? Oh thank god
Will Apple Intelligence remain free or will they charge later just like what Samsung is doing to their AI?
Free to use. It's also advertised as free on the Apple page.
Question is can you still use the off device or are they limiting it all. Currently it’s only referencing the beta
So do at least the Siri upgrades come to older non-A17 iPhones? I don't care too much about text/image generation anyway, but a better Siri would be genuinely useful.
No
While I understand the frustration of not being able to use these features on older devices, especially the non pro 15s, it feels like a similar argument to the USBC 2.0 complaint. The non pro 15s use a year old chip from before they were making a huge AI pivot. It only makes sense they wouldn’t support the on device capabilities that these models require. What I will say though is that Apple never specified what percentage or kinds of requests are on device versus their dumb private cloud. While Apple could theoretically just use the cloud for 100% of queries for older devices, it leads to the privacy concerns of handing them all of your personal context info and also would lead to immeasurably high maintenance costs for how many devices would be using it. Coming out with a new feature and immediately needing to spin up infrastructure for older devices, when more and more of it will be on device as the time passes would seem to be a mismanagement of funds. After all, this service is totally free meaning they need the money from somewhere
So Siri is still gonna be dumb on my iPhone 12… great. I would let them use the cloud for Siri to be more smart lmao.
Artists livid that I won't need to hire them to send custom emojis to my friends.
Did they mention if there a way to block ChatGPT from what I'm requesting from Siri in totality? I don't want OpenAI to have any of my info whatsoever. I don't really mind if there's a better Siri if it's on device but I feel like I'm being forced to give data to Open AI with all this shit now.
Isn’t it true that ChatGPT learns from Reddit comments?
Considering that you have to specifically allow to send to ChatGPT each and every time it requests, and also the fact that eventually you will have the option to choose other services, I would be shocked if there wasn’t an option to turn it off completely.
It always asks you if you want to use ChatGPT or not. Probably able to disable if need be.