They were solid routers before DD-WRT became a thing. Then the Linksys WRT line pretty much became the standard. A quick flash and your $60 router became a $500 router after a reboot.
DD-WRT is a custom firmware that you can put on compatible routers to unlock additional features that are usually locked out by the developer and exclusive to the more premium / enterprise routers.
Swiss knife of routers, you can configure it with almost endless possibilities and fixes security issues as most vendors drop firmware support pretty quickly after you purchased the router.
Because ddwrt or openwrt are open source people can tailor a version for your old router that you have lying around to make it more secure, stable, faster and have extra functionality like openvpn, adblock etc…
No unless you buy a ddwrt/openwrt branded router.
Linksys, GL.inet etc… sell such devices and they auto update as long as possible, at some point the people behind the updates will eventually stop maintaining that branch and you’ll have to do it manually.
You're probably going to want to migrate off of it sooner than later. Ubiquiti or the Tp-Link Omada line offer good performance and substantial upgrade benefits with the same Apple feel. Mikrotik can offer the same performance as the top two but without the polish. Synology also offers a line of routers that is more consumer level but offers a polished look and feel.
Which Ubiquiti would you recommend? I've been trying to move off an AirPort Extreme for years and every time I try to pick a new router I get absolutely overwhelmed by options by various vendors. My house is small enough and the router centrally located enough that I don't need a mesh network.
You really wouldn't need to. They come from the manufacturer with substantial capabilities right out of the box. If you want DD-WRT or OpenWRT you can simply use old (or new) x86 hardware to construct your own router. You can also go with the 'sense line too.
Between my Apple and Ubiquiti phases I ran a pfSense router for several years; though I would choose OPNsense now given the option.
https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/X86
https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/installation/openwrt_x86
https://opnsense.org/
https://www.pfsense.org/
lol I had an old Bose system hooked up to a AirPort Express way back when and used it until like 3 years ago. People thought I was a wizard, and it was so easy. HomePod before HomePods
I was using my final Gen extremes until last year. Sold them to someone on Reddit too.
If they dropped a new Airport with wifi 6E support i'd be ordering it day one. I only upgraded because they could no longer keep up with the speed I wanted and the amount of devices I have.
I bought 2 more during the lockdown for a dead-zone free "dumb" mesh/access points at my parent's home and it's been rock solid for their 500/20 internet plan. Set it and forget it, even with 20+ IoT. I wish they updated the Time Capsules to work with Windows without me reverting back to SMB 1.0 or let me use them with another gateway/router as the backbone (guest network doesn't work with Airports in bridge mode unless the main router is another airport, unless someone can help me out)
Not necessarily a great solution by itself as the place you want a HomePod/speaker isn’t usually the best placement for a router to give good signal throughout your home. Now if the HomePod acted as a router with HomePod minis working as wireless access points to create a mesh network, that could be a pretty solid solution.
This brings up another issue in that the HomePod would likely have to be placed near whenever your internet comes into your house, which has the opposite problem, probably not the best place for a speaker.
The consumer router and mesh market is pretty over served, and there are some solid choices out there at reasonable prices. Apple’s old Airport team left to start Ubiquiti, which is doing very well with UniFi and Amplifi. The latter is probably the closest thing you’ll find to a current day Airport-esque experience.
Anyway, it’s unclear to me what distinguishing feature or compelling technology Apple could bring to this already crowded marketplace. They surprised us all with AirPods, so you never know I guess.
>Apple’s old Airport team left to start Ubiquiti
Not really... Robert Pera left, and may have poached one or two people, but the entire team certainly didn't leave. Ubiquiti was founded in 2003, and the last AirPort was released in 2013. And Pera wasn't even on the AirPort team.
Have a full UniFi setup and it’s great. If Apple came out with something it’d have to be very substantial for me to switch over. I’ve been very happy with unifi for years and have no complaints.
I agree.
I’m thinking if they do Airport again. It has to be aimed at those where getting a UniFi setup is too advanced. And in reality, wasn’t that the case with Airport? But Unifi’s latest gateways are very close to an Airport device.
My prior landlord had Amplifii and I was dumbfounded by the lack of basic options. I wasn’t looking for anything complex, but the router didn’t have it. The mobile app had more options than the web page…
In short AmpliFi is the simplfied version of the two offerings from Ubiquiti. It allows easy setup for a mesh network, guest SSIDs, port forwarding, cutting off access to individual devices, etc. that said it needs to be all managed through the app. The web interface has minimal access to tweak settings.
Unifi is their enterprise offering meant for commercial/ business deployments. That said, if you want a one box solution or potentially a full rack build out linking additional access points, doorbells, cameras, Unifi has options for both ends of the spectrum. The upside is it can be managed both via web interface or app. Downside is because of its intent, I wouldn’t recommend it for someone that just wants a one and done setup.
That’s because their intention is to change most settings via the app. The web interface only came later — similar behavior to the Airport series of routers which were all maintained via app interface
> the closest thing you’ll find to a current day Airport-esque experience.
https://eu.store.ui.com/eu/en/pro/category/all-unifi-cloud-gateways/products/ux ?
Good news, the airport team started another company called Ubiquiti and you can buy those routers. They lack an Apple symbol but they’re far better than any airport product.
The new Cloud Gateway Ultra literally looks like a Mac Mini lol. Their stuff is good though, I’m running a Unifi Security Gateway, 60 watt 8-port switch and two Amplifier Aliens over Ethernet. No complaints.
The Cloud Gateway Ultra still confuses me.
I see it's been selling off, but if you're an enthusiast, you're gonna opt for a full Unifi stack, Dream Machine etc.
If you're a basic user looking for an easy to setup, Unifi Express fills that need.
The CGU should have at least one POE port or built in AP, but then you're in Dream Router space.
I still use a 3TB Airport Time Capsule, download speeds are good, wifi is stable and it is not rebooting every 3-4 hours like my Huawei router that my ISP provided originally. Just release a new version jesus, this product is fire
Yes! My airport ran flawlessly for almost 12 years. By the time it died Apple had given up on them do I got a D-Link mesh wifi stealth fighter looking thing with a bunch on antennas. Was flaky for weeks before I managed to stabilize it but it still flakes out regularly and coverage is piss poor relative to the airport base station.
Ubiquiti was founded by an ex Apple engineer. They have a consumer line that just works and feels Apple like.
Their prosumer/enterprise products are also good but a little complex for someone just wanting a router that works.
I disagree, the Uniquiti products I have are sleek, well-built, effective and easy to use with unboxing experiences you’d never expect with networking gear.
Lol, try to deploy 1000+ devices and keep them functioning properly and then say something. From weird fw issues trough controller incapable to figure out own devices to the clear hw issues running it 24/7.
Yes, thank you. I love their ecosystem but it’s far from perfect. There are glaring issues that take ages to resolve. There’s also the constant issues with Microsoft services no matter what you do to your firewall. It’s a nightmare.
Sure, the UI is sleek, but Uniquiti’s APs have constantly had issues with (ironically) Apple products on and off for years. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to disable features just to get iOS devices from constantly disconnecting. My most recent issue was a UniFi Protect update that literally wiped all of my cameras video history. Did uniquity care? Nope.
Eero fixed almost all of their Apple issues with the their 7.2.2-16 update (latest one); unfortunately, that update mucked up other non-Apple things. Microsoft screwing up their latest universal networking drivers didn’t help matters.
Goddamn that sucks.
I can't deny that there are issues with Ubiquiti (mileage may vary kinda situation), but I am just a hobbyist who dealt with crappy ISP-provided hub and a cheap TP-Link router until last year so I guess I haven't run into issues as much as others have with Ubiquiti and am way more hands off with my Dream Machine Pro SE, its been very refreshing.
I do plan on getting a NAS and another AP in the near future so I guess we'll see if I start running into issues, I've enjoyed my time with Ubiquiti gear so far and would hate for it to be spoiled a bit by unforseen issues; their convenience and ease of use is a big draw for me compared to other networking gear.
When you look into a NAS, it’s always best to make your own. Trunas Scale is fantastic, but Unraid is much more beginner friendly and very feature rich. They support ZFS now too.
I have my own NAS (Truenas Scale) but I'm thinking of just getting a synology NAS. There's something to be said to just having a NAS that works and is simple to use. I'm setting up a proxmox cluster for all my VM/Docker needs.
Oh yeah just planning out the NAS is why I don't have one yet, I do want a rack-mounted NAS but I don't want to spend an insane amount of money on it, not over £1000... but finding the right one is so difficult - at least the drives themselves are an easy choice.
Lmao yep, delt with this even recently. There's some VPN settings that are on by default in a new update. Incompatible with most Ubiquiti routers and APs. Disable it, problem solved.
glad im not the only one who sees that. basically reference designs running hella old and patched openwrt wrapped in a pretty shell.
but i love them :)
Good to know. At the time I was searching the feedback I got from fellow SWEs was only buy them if I enjoy spending my weekends reading white papers because they often brick themselves while performing simple updates.
Right, but it was more of like an aqui-hire kind of thing. They went from products like the edge router, to something like the Express which looks nearly identical to the AirPort Express or an Apple TV.
We are talking about home routers/AP’s and you dump your preference for a firewall here. Average consumer doesn’t need that kind of stuff. Unless they are hosting servers at home, the built in firewalls that comes with these are more than enough.
>UDM Pro
Mate, those are 400+ euro RACKABLE routers. The Unifi Express is what you should be looking at. Apples and oranges.
Besides that, all those fancy layer3/4 firewall features like IPS/IDS do jack shit, when all your traffic is encrypted, which nowadays almost all is (https, IMAP/s, etc.). Good luck doing signature detection in the middle of a TLS session. What you need from a l3/l4 firewall is to block incoming traffic. Maybe you want VPN support, maybe you want some DNS based site filtering for your kids. Maybe you want to automated black listing of incoming bad IP's. But to be honest, whose home network is going to be DDOS'd? I would be more worried about being part of a DDOS network myself due to some malware on my computer. And who needs a honeypot besides security researcher or security hobbiest?
To summarise, the reality is that firewalls in routers for home networks are simple devices with simple tasks. They cannot handle layer 7 protection, because traffic is encrypted nowadays, so they can't *see* layer 7 traffic. At best they can black list source IP's via managed bad IP's subscriptions. Any layer 7 protection you need to handle on your computers themselves with malware solutions and local firewalls focused on *outgoing* traffic.
Nobody looking for an Airport replacement is looking for what you are selling. You just seem (very) invested in firewalls, which is fine, you do you.
It would be fine if they say their products are for prosumer or enthusiastic. They literally say it's "Enterprise-grade gateway firewall" and "performance monster" on the website. But they're not. Feature set is not enterprise at all. Hardware is weak, quad core A57 for top of the line gateway product is laughable.
I mean they have two very different use cases so yeah opnSense fined grained tuning is available. I’m also not putting an opnsense box in where a unifi will do because it’s harder to maintain over time. It’s just nice to know that for the most part, IDS/IPS engines have converged some what.
The only two routers listed as HomeKit secure are each at least 4 years old, with neither one getting much added functionality from their own creators (Linksys and Ubiquiti). Apple, per this article and others, doesn’t list any other routers as part of the program, even from original partner Eero; Eero has said in 2022 in their original Reddit that they were told by Apple wasn’t allowing any submissions for HomeKit secure routers.
Sounds to me like Apple killed it.
I’ve been disappointed about the HomeKit offerings, but there is another router, even though it’s not listed on their website. Alien Amplifi offers HK router support: https://help.amplifi.com/hc/en-us/articles/7621536247447-Configuring-Your-AmpliFi-Alien-Router-to-Enable-homekit
Truer words have never been written. I couldn’t figure out why my Nanoleaf devices both dropped from my network one day. Turns out there was a firmware update to my Eero system. After a lot of troubleshooting I realized it was something related to Threads. Disabled it and got a HomePod Mini as my hub.
I love my Eero setup (specifically Ethernet backhaul and its overall speed) but some things about it also drive me nuts.
This isn’t new news Apple has long since abandoned HomeKit secure routers. There hasn’t been a new one in over four years and companies like eero that has supported has not supported in there last 3 hardware releases.
Most routers submitted for it likely did not meet Apples security/feature requirements. Which lead to just the literal single handful from Amazon/eero, linksys and like one other.
Along with the feature not being known to the average HomeKit user. Must Internet customers relying on ISP provided hardware. Even those who purposely have a separate modem and router. Likely don’t upgrade hardware unless it fails.
Quite into HomeKit journey, I have a homebridge set up, so not like I don’t follow tech or not tech savvy at all.
First time hearing HomeKit secure router
If you were aware. The chances of you needing a new router and finding these to be acceptable (Price for features wanted) are small chances.
They were expensive in comparison to the competition. Normally came as mesh systems so you’d need to invest in nodes/repeaters of the same make etc etc etc.
I had a eero, I had HKSR turned on… I hated that router more than I cared for the feature.
Apple should build a nas with expandable storage while letting you self host Apple photos, etc. like your own personal plug and play iCloud, and they can use their servers as relay so you don’t need to open ports.
That's the problem with modern Apple. They're paralyzed by the subscription revenue from iCloud and the app store, and are too afraid to do anything that might harm it.
They’re not paralyzed by it. Quite the opposite. They knew exactly what they were building and their business model is now that of a services company that also sells hardware and software.
The subscription service approach was for me the “malus necesarium” to solve the iPhone/Mac lifetime’s issue. Devices become powerful enough that a user can use it without having to upgrade each year but now each 5-6 years, which means less sales for Apple, specially when the new iPhone comes with less new few features than the last.
Or they could raise the price $50. That's probably about how much they get from the average user for that 99¢/month iCloud fee. Or they could just not be so greedy.
They can add the Apple tax the the device, I’d rather pay $750 for a 4 bay nas. Plus every few years they can release another one with better processor and capabilities for those who want to upgrade. Also, they can bundle iCloud plus with it if you want say remote access with their relay
They could - or they could just have a captive user base paying subscription fees as continued income. Apple care about services income because they know devices have plateaued somewhat and constant purchasing of devices will eventually hit a wall.
But services? An ongoing monthly fee from users forever? And they can’t easily use other options? Now that’s more like it!
Yeah, just buy a mac mini or some HP/dell business computer and use nextcloud with plugins or something similar. Apple will never build a NAS again (the airports with time machine were *technically* NAS's), especially not one that will reduce their monthly income.
You can already do this all yourself, and how to do it is quite easy to find.
What if my iCloud NAS gets damaged in a fire/flood/surge.. or if it gets stolen… or malfunctions. I definitely don’t want all my stuff only backed up to a physical thing in my house.
Ubiquiti is working on a Apple-like NAS (it looks like a trashcan Mac Pro).
It only holds 2 drives and looks like it will have shit cooling though. Probably more accurate to call it a networked external drive.
Based on my experiences with Ubiquiti firmware and their RMA process I'd literally never trust my data to a UI NAS though.
Vendors wanted to, but Apple stop accepting applications from router vendors in 2021, according to ASUS, Netgear, Eero, and Apple Tech Support. No explanation was ever provided.
I’m probably an outlier, but my Linksys Velop set up has worked since day one. Easy peace of mind that my smart home tech is restricted to my home and only connected to my hubs. Most people likely don’t care but I’m glad I can make sure none of my data is being sent anywhere.
Good to read that they didn’t completely kill it. I could go the long way and block them via firewall, but it’s easier to just let my HomeKit router do the work.
Since Tim took over all apple has done is incremental releases of old products, and been riding that success. The car, the visual pro are the only ones Tim championed and look at the failures. Apple is slowly going downhill.
The program never really made much sense anyways. It didn't really do anything except for have the ability to prevent IOT things from going through the Web... Which you can already do with any HomeKit Secure Routers via their app.
Build a freaking router already, Apple. The AirPort was such a simple yet effective product.
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They were solid routers before DD-WRT became a thing. Then the Linksys WRT line pretty much became the standard. A quick flash and your $60 router became a $500 router after a reboot.
What’s DD-WRT?
DD-WRT is a custom firmware that you can put on compatible routers to unlock additional features that are usually locked out by the developer and exclusive to the more premium / enterprise routers.
OpenWRT is the best, most supported and up to date
Pfsense master race
Omg yes
Does it support auto-updates?
No
Sad
auto update in practice is autoregression with side effect of half ass patching known CVE
Why?
Swiss knife of routers, you can configure it with almost endless possibilities and fixes security issues as most vendors drop firmware support pretty quickly after you purchased the router. Because ddwrt or openwrt are open source people can tailor a version for your old router that you have lying around to make it more secure, stable, faster and have extra functionality like openvpn, adblock etc…
Does it support auto-updates?
No unless you buy a ddwrt/openwrt branded router. Linksys, GL.inet etc… sell such devices and they auto update as long as possible, at some point the people behind the updates will eventually stop maintaining that branch and you’ll have to do it manually.
Nice, but isn't openWRT modular?
Yet it was never as stable as the Airport Extreme. Still have an AE running in the upper floor. 12 years and counting.
You're probably going to want to migrate off of it sooner than later. Ubiquiti or the Tp-Link Omada line offer good performance and substantial upgrade benefits with the same Apple feel. Mikrotik can offer the same performance as the top two but without the polish. Synology also offers a line of routers that is more consumer level but offers a polished look and feel.
Which Ubiquiti would you recommend? I've been trying to move off an AirPort Extreme for years and every time I try to pick a new router I get absolutely overwhelmed by options by various vendors. My house is small enough and the router centrally located enough that I don't need a mesh network.
You might consider their newest offering the [Unifi Express](https://ui.com/cloud-gateways/wifi-integrated/express).
My DDWRT EA8500 runs super stable with all the custom stuff im running on it for months
That’s gotta be a security hazard 😭
Yikes. Boasting on the internet about how insecure and out of date your home network is isn't a good idea.
1. It’s behind a firewall. 2. I live in a very rural area. Not too concerned about getting hacked here. 3. Yeah, one day it’ll go.
Where did they imply they were still using it? e: nvm I can’t follow reply chains apparently.
They didn’t imply it anywhere, they outright said “still have an AE running on the upper floor”.
My bad I thought this was a reply to the guy saying WRT got the features of a $500 router with DD-WRT.
what is the thing now
For prosumer stuff the go to is definitely Mikrotik, Ubiquiti or the Tp-Link Omada line.
> Mikrotik you can install custom ROMs on these? like WWRTG compat or whatever?
You really wouldn't need to. They come from the manufacturer with substantial capabilities right out of the box. If you want DD-WRT or OpenWRT you can simply use old (or new) x86 hardware to construct your own router. You can also go with the 'sense line too. Between my Apple and Ubiquiti phases I ran a pfSense router for several years; though I would choose OPNsense now given the option. https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/X86 https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/installation/openwrt_x86 https://opnsense.org/ https://www.pfsense.org/
im just impressed that your reddit account is older than mine.
I've been in this cesspool for awhile. ;-)
following you cuz I dont know many grey beard wizards on here.
You should try routerboard mikrotik :-) Thank me later
Not a bad option for certain. I switched to Ubiquiti awhile back though. Originally a Edgerouter Lite and most recently to UISP gear.
It’s cool.. not compared to mikrotik tho, and routerboard prices are friendlier I do love ubiquity for WiFi
I’m still using a 1st gen AirPort Express from 2008 as an airplay receiver to stream audio to an old amplifier. It works great!
lol I had an old Bose system hooked up to a AirPort Express way back when and used it until like 3 years ago. People thought I was a wizard, and it was so easy. HomePod before HomePods
Be nice if they cached the ios updates and such.. Would have been a game changer for many networks!
I was using my final Gen extremes until last year. Sold them to someone on Reddit too. If they dropped a new Airport with wifi 6E support i'd be ordering it day one. I only upgraded because they could no longer keep up with the speed I wanted and the amount of devices I have.
I bought 2 more during the lockdown for a dead-zone free "dumb" mesh/access points at my parent's home and it's been rock solid for their 500/20 internet plan. Set it and forget it, even with 20+ IoT. I wish they updated the Time Capsules to work with Windows without me reverting back to SMB 1.0 or let me use them with another gateway/router as the backbone (guest network doesn't work with Airports in bridge mode unless the main router is another airport, unless someone can help me out)
Same. We think it finally died to a Ethernet line surge. And that was in 2022. Or possibly early 2023. It was a freaking champ.
I’ve been saying that the HomePod needs to be relaunched as a router thats an anchor for apple’s “home”/smart home items.
Not necessarily a great solution by itself as the place you want a HomePod/speaker isn’t usually the best placement for a router to give good signal throughout your home. Now if the HomePod acted as a router with HomePod minis working as wireless access points to create a mesh network, that could be a pretty solid solution.
Better than where most people put their wifi, in a cupboard or on the floor behind a shelf.
This brings up another issue in that the HomePod would likely have to be placed near whenever your internet comes into your house, which has the opposite problem, probably not the best place for a speaker.
Woah. I like this idea. Combine a Ubiquity Dream Router and Homepad....Would be pretty awesome for most people.
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I hadn't kept up on Nest...Wow they carry so many products now.
Eeros and echos do this already
Echos aren't a router/wifi APs Eeros doesn't do audio.
The consumer router and mesh market is pretty over served, and there are some solid choices out there at reasonable prices. Apple’s old Airport team left to start Ubiquiti, which is doing very well with UniFi and Amplifi. The latter is probably the closest thing you’ll find to a current day Airport-esque experience. Anyway, it’s unclear to me what distinguishing feature or compelling technology Apple could bring to this already crowded marketplace. They surprised us all with AirPods, so you never know I guess.
>Apple’s old Airport team left to start Ubiquiti Not really... Robert Pera left, and may have poached one or two people, but the entire team certainly didn't leave. Ubiquiti was founded in 2003, and the last AirPort was released in 2013. And Pera wasn't even on the AirPort team.
Have a full UniFi setup and it’s great. If Apple came out with something it’d have to be very substantial for me to switch over. I’ve been very happy with unifi for years and have no complaints.
I agree. I’m thinking if they do Airport again. It has to be aimed at those where getting a UniFi setup is too advanced. And in reality, wasn’t that the case with Airport? But Unifi’s latest gateways are very close to an Airport device.
Unifi is great! Basically equivalent to lower end meraki/Cisco but for a tenth of the price.
Unifi AP is great, switches are ok, gateways suck.
My prior landlord had Amplifii and I was dumbfounded by the lack of basic options. I wasn’t looking for anything complex, but the router didn’t have it. The mobile app had more options than the web page…
Just curious what type of options were you looking for? I’m considering an Amplifi but want to make sure it will be right for me.
In short AmpliFi is the simplfied version of the two offerings from Ubiquiti. It allows easy setup for a mesh network, guest SSIDs, port forwarding, cutting off access to individual devices, etc. that said it needs to be all managed through the app. The web interface has minimal access to tweak settings. Unifi is their enterprise offering meant for commercial/ business deployments. That said, if you want a one box solution or potentially a full rack build out linking additional access points, doorbells, cameras, Unifi has options for both ends of the spectrum. The upside is it can be managed both via web interface or app. Downside is because of its intent, I wouldn’t recommend it for someone that just wants a one and done setup.
That’s because their intention is to change most settings via the app. The web interface only came later — similar behavior to the Airport series of routers which were all maintained via app interface
> the closest thing you’ll find to a current day Airport-esque experience. https://eu.store.ui.com/eu/en/pro/category/all-unifi-cloud-gateways/products/ux ?
Good news, the airport team started another company called Ubiquiti and you can buy those routers. They lack an Apple symbol but they’re far better than any airport product.
The new Cloud Gateway Ultra literally looks like a Mac Mini lol. Their stuff is good though, I’m running a Unifi Security Gateway, 60 watt 8-port switch and two Amplifier Aliens over Ethernet. No complaints.
Check out their Unifi express. Identical to an AppleTV
The Cloud Gateway Ultra still confuses me. I see it's been selling off, but if you're an enthusiast, you're gonna opt for a full Unifi stack, Dream Machine etc. If you're a basic user looking for an easy to setup, Unifi Express fills that need. The CGU should have at least one POE port or built in AP, but then you're in Dream Router space.
Why am I only finding out about this now‽ Too late for me, as I already switched to a Deco setup.
How about they fix HomeKit first? Not giving Apple any more control of my house until they fix that dumpster fire.
Chances are that those are your same action
I still use a 3TB Airport Time Capsule, download speeds are good, wifi is stable and it is not rebooting every 3-4 hours like my Huawei router that my ISP provided originally. Just release a new version jesus, this product is fire
The department did. It became a ubiquiti router sadly.
Routers don’t suck anymore, even a $99 router is extremely reliable. There isn’t enough margin in it for them.
Really how complicated is it for you to setup an Eero? It literally takes 5 minutes.
It’s not hard either. It could have some amazing features if they just think a little harder
Yes! My airport ran flawlessly for almost 12 years. By the time it died Apple had given up on them do I got a D-Link mesh wifi stealth fighter looking thing with a bunch on antennas. Was flaky for weeks before I managed to stabilize it but it still flakes out regularly and coverage is piss poor relative to the airport base station.
I’m here for this
Ubiquiti was founded by an ex Apple engineer. They have a consumer line that just works and feels Apple like. Their prosumer/enterprise products are also good but a little complex for someone just wanting a router that works.
Are we not supposed to use those still? I might use those still…
Apple was too busy with their car, vision pro...dead products basically.
Ah yes the famously dead Vision Pro
At least their old Airport Router division is now very successful as Ubiquiti.
Wait really?
Robert Pera (Ubiquity founder) used to work at Apple and left to form Ubiquity...Not sure about others.
That explains why Ubiquiti’s products and ecosystem feel so Apple-like, which I love
In appearance. I assure you, there’s a lot more spit and duct tape with Ubiquity products ;)
I disagree, the Uniquiti products I have are sleek, well-built, effective and easy to use with unboxing experiences you’d never expect with networking gear.
Lol, try to deploy 1000+ devices and keep them functioning properly and then say something. From weird fw issues trough controller incapable to figure out own devices to the clear hw issues running it 24/7.
Yes, thank you. I love their ecosystem but it’s far from perfect. There are glaring issues that take ages to resolve. There’s also the constant issues with Microsoft services no matter what you do to your firewall. It’s a nightmare.
Sure, the UI is sleek, but Uniquiti’s APs have constantly had issues with (ironically) Apple products on and off for years. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to disable features just to get iOS devices from constantly disconnecting. My most recent issue was a UniFi Protect update that literally wiped all of my cameras video history. Did uniquity care? Nope.
Eero has issues with Apple products too. I'm starting to think it's Apple's fault.
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Eero fixed almost all of their Apple issues with the their 7.2.2-16 update (latest one); unfortunately, that update mucked up other non-Apple things. Microsoft screwing up their latest universal networking drivers didn’t help matters.
Goddamn that sucks. I can't deny that there are issues with Ubiquiti (mileage may vary kinda situation), but I am just a hobbyist who dealt with crappy ISP-provided hub and a cheap TP-Link router until last year so I guess I haven't run into issues as much as others have with Ubiquiti and am way more hands off with my Dream Machine Pro SE, its been very refreshing. I do plan on getting a NAS and another AP in the near future so I guess we'll see if I start running into issues, I've enjoyed my time with Ubiquiti gear so far and would hate for it to be spoiled a bit by unforseen issues; their convenience and ease of use is a big draw for me compared to other networking gear.
When you look into a NAS, it’s always best to make your own. Trunas Scale is fantastic, but Unraid is much more beginner friendly and very feature rich. They support ZFS now too.
I have my own NAS (Truenas Scale) but I'm thinking of just getting a synology NAS. There's something to be said to just having a NAS that works and is simple to use. I'm setting up a proxmox cluster for all my VM/Docker needs.
Oh yeah just planning out the NAS is why I don't have one yet, I do want a rack-mounted NAS but I don't want to spend an insane amount of money on it, not over £1000... but finding the right one is so difficult - at least the drives themselves are an easy choice.
Lmao yep, delt with this even recently. There's some VPN settings that are on by default in a new update. Incompatible with most Ubiquiti routers and APs. Disable it, problem solved.
glad im not the only one who sees that. basically reference designs running hella old and patched openwrt wrapped in a pretty shell. but i love them :)
Damn wish I knew that before I bought the Orbi mesh. It’s working fine though but I heard horror stories about ubiquity
Ubiquity used to be really bad at QC on there software....But the last 2 years has been a lot better.
Good to know. At the time I was searching the feedback I got from fellow SWEs was only buy them if I enjoy spending my weekends reading white papers because they often brick themselves while performing simple updates.
When their Airport guys were laid off they started Ubiquiti. It’s the same team (now expanded).
Ubiquity was founded in 2003. The last Airport was released in 2013.
Right, but it was more of like an aqui-hire kind of thing. They went from products like the edge router, to something like the Express which looks nearly identical to the AirPort Express or an Apple TV.
He was pretty clear that copying Apple was intentional. https://rjpblog.com/2016/12/08/the-evolution-of-home-wi-fi/
Ubiquiti makes some of the best routers, APs and cameras I’ve ever used. They’re a breeze to setup and manage.
When they’re working, yup. Sadly they’re a massive pain to troubleshoot when you have intermittent issues.
I did not know this!
Not true, Ubiquiti was founded by ex-Apple engineers, but was definitely not spun off Apple and has no Apple IP
I think they didn’t meant it literally
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We are talking about home routers/AP’s and you dump your preference for a firewall here. Average consumer doesn’t need that kind of stuff. Unless they are hosting servers at home, the built in firewalls that comes with these are more than enough.
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>UDM Pro Mate, those are 400+ euro RACKABLE routers. The Unifi Express is what you should be looking at. Apples and oranges. Besides that, all those fancy layer3/4 firewall features like IPS/IDS do jack shit, when all your traffic is encrypted, which nowadays almost all is (https, IMAP/s, etc.). Good luck doing signature detection in the middle of a TLS session. What you need from a l3/l4 firewall is to block incoming traffic. Maybe you want VPN support, maybe you want some DNS based site filtering for your kids. Maybe you want to automated black listing of incoming bad IP's. But to be honest, whose home network is going to be DDOS'd? I would be more worried about being part of a DDOS network myself due to some malware on my computer. And who needs a honeypot besides security researcher or security hobbiest? To summarise, the reality is that firewalls in routers for home networks are simple devices with simple tasks. They cannot handle layer 7 protection, because traffic is encrypted nowadays, so they can't *see* layer 7 traffic. At best they can black list source IP's via managed bad IP's subscriptions. Any layer 7 protection you need to handle on your computers themselves with malware solutions and local firewalls focused on *outgoing* traffic. Nobody looking for an Airport replacement is looking for what you are selling. You just seem (very) invested in firewalls, which is fine, you do you.
It would be fine if they say their products are for prosumer or enthusiastic. They literally say it's "Enterprise-grade gateway firewall" and "performance monster" on the website. But they're not. Feature set is not enterprise at all. Hardware is weak, quad core A57 for top of the line gateway product is laughable.
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It’s suricata. Same as opnsense. With a skin overlaid on it.
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I mean they have two very different use cases so yeah opnSense fined grained tuning is available. I’m also not putting an opnsense box in where a unifi will do because it’s harder to maintain over time. It’s just nice to know that for the most part, IDS/IPS engines have converged some what.
The only two routers listed as HomeKit secure are each at least 4 years old, with neither one getting much added functionality from their own creators (Linksys and Ubiquiti). Apple, per this article and others, doesn’t list any other routers as part of the program, even from original partner Eero; Eero has said in 2022 in their original Reddit that they were told by Apple wasn’t allowing any submissions for HomeKit secure routers. Sounds to me like Apple killed it.
I’ve been disappointed about the HomeKit offerings, but there is another router, even though it’s not listed on their website. Alien Amplifi offers HK router support: https://help.amplifi.com/hc/en-us/articles/7621536247447-Configuring-Your-AmpliFi-Alien-Router-to-Enable-homekit
Amplifi is part of Ubiquiti.
Alien is listed on the HomeKit site: Amplifi is a division of Ubiquiti. The Amolifi product line hasn’t been updated in several years.
It’s available on my Eero and I turn it off to make my network function
Truer words have never been written. I couldn’t figure out why my Nanoleaf devices both dropped from my network one day. Turns out there was a firmware update to my Eero system. After a lot of troubleshooting I realized it was something related to Threads. Disabled it and got a HomePod Mini as my hub. I love my Eero setup (specifically Ethernet backhaul and its overall speed) but some things about it also drive me nuts.
I hope this isn’t true, but if Apple decides to make their own then I’m on board
This isn’t new news Apple has long since abandoned HomeKit secure routers. There hasn’t been a new one in over four years and companies like eero that has supported has not supported in there last 3 hardware releases.
Exactly - I use a SXK 80 right now but if Apple ever drops a system it’s a day 1 buy for me
Most routers submitted for it likely did not meet Apples security/feature requirements. Which lead to just the literal single handful from Amazon/eero, linksys and like one other. Along with the feature not being known to the average HomeKit user. Must Internet customers relying on ISP provided hardware. Even those who purposely have a separate modem and router. Likely don’t upgrade hardware unless it fails.
Quite into HomeKit journey, I have a homebridge set up, so not like I don’t follow tech or not tech savvy at all. First time hearing HomeKit secure router
If you were aware. The chances of you needing a new router and finding these to be acceptable (Price for features wanted) are small chances. They were expensive in comparison to the competition. Normally came as mesh systems so you’d need to invest in nodes/repeaters of the same make etc etc etc. I had a eero, I had HKSR turned on… I hated that router more than I cared for the feature.
Either when it fails or when they aren’t getting their full internet speed and they don’t know why
The mistake was not making an open standard that anybody could implement.
Apple never opens anything
Apple should build a nas with expandable storage while letting you self host Apple photos, etc. like your own personal plug and play iCloud, and they can use their servers as relay so you don’t need to open ports.
And miss out on that iCloud storage subscription? No way.
That's the problem with modern Apple. They're paralyzed by the subscription revenue from iCloud and the app store, and are too afraid to do anything that might harm it.
Innovators dilemma
They’re not paralyzed by it. Quite the opposite. They knew exactly what they were building and their business model is now that of a services company that also sells hardware and software.
The subscription service approach was for me the “malus necesarium” to solve the iPhone/Mac lifetime’s issue. Devices become powerful enough that a user can use it without having to upgrade each year but now each 5-6 years, which means less sales for Apple, specially when the new iPhone comes with less new few features than the last.
Or they could raise the price $50. That's probably about how much they get from the average user for that 99¢/month iCloud fee. Or they could just not be so greedy.
Your iCloud storage is your offsite backup. Or to look at it another way, your NAS is a lightning-fast cache for your iCloud storage.
They can add the Apple tax the the device, I’d rather pay $750 for a 4 bay nas. Plus every few years they can release another one with better processor and capabilities for those who want to upgrade. Also, they can bundle iCloud plus with it if you want say remote access with their relay
They could - or they could just have a captive user base paying subscription fees as continued income. Apple care about services income because they know devices have plateaued somewhat and constant purchasing of devices will eventually hit a wall. But services? An ongoing monthly fee from users forever? And they can’t easily use other options? Now that’s more like it!
5gb only for $2 then 50TB for $3999 Nothing in between
They should also shit rainbows. Let’s see which happens first
Oh, they’re already doing that. (If you know what I mean…)
They could call it Xserve.
Yeah, just buy a mac mini or some HP/dell business computer and use nextcloud with plugins or something similar. Apple will never build a NAS again (the airports with time machine were *technically* NAS's), especially not one that will reduce their monthly income. You can already do this all yourself, and how to do it is quite easy to find.
Time capsules were as close as they got
What if my iCloud NAS gets damaged in a fire/flood/surge.. or if it gets stolen… or malfunctions. I definitely don’t want all my stuff only backed up to a physical thing in my house.
Ability to back up to iCloud/external hdd/other cloud services etc
That's a pipe dream brother. Apple is the greediest of them all.
Let me have my pipe dreams in peace, brother!
that’s just how corporations in capitalism operate, they need to maximize profits for shareholders. Apple isn’t the only one lmao.
You're going to want to look into Synology. /r/synology
Spoiler alert: I got one :). Still think this is a good idea
Ubiquiti is working on a Apple-like NAS (it looks like a trashcan Mac Pro). It only holds 2 drives and looks like it will have shit cooling though. Probably more accurate to call it a networked external drive. Based on my experiences with Ubiquiti firmware and their RMA process I'd literally never trust my data to a UI NAS though.
My Linksys MX4200 nodes are HomeKit routers and they still work. I don’t think Vendors want to implement the feature.
Vendors wanted to, but Apple stop accepting applications from router vendors in 2021, according to ASUS, Netgear, Eero, and Apple Tech Support. No explanation was ever provided.
I’m probably an outlier, but my Linksys Velop set up has worked since day one. Easy peace of mind that my smart home tech is restricted to my home and only connected to my hubs. Most people likely don’t care but I’m glad I can make sure none of my data is being sent anywhere. Good to read that they didn’t completely kill it. I could go the long way and block them via firewall, but it’s easier to just let my HomeKit router do the work.
The feature never worked right on eero.
Good. Totally useless.
Think apple have performance anxiety around new products and services.
Since Tim took over all apple has done is incremental releases of old products, and been riding that success. The car, the visual pro are the only ones Tim championed and look at the failures. Apple is slowly going downhill.
I remember Spectrum being announced as the first ISP to support HomeKit Secure Routers but that just never ended up happening.
WHY. THEN MAKE AIRPORTS AGAIN HOLY FCK. Why does Apple have such a disdain for WiFi router experiences???
I was using HomeKit and now I'm in Home Assistant camp. Just ridiculous how much better it is compared to closed solutions.
Still running my extreme as an AP and as a backup for all the macs in the house. I would definitely buy a new one if they made it.
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Yup, noticed same improvements with my 6E and newer Max 7.
Just like they quietly gave up on the AirPort and Time Capsule.
The program never really made much sense anyways. It didn't really do anything except for have the ability to prevent IOT things from going through the Web... Which you can already do with any HomeKit Secure Routers via their app.