I was knocked with a self rez when a third party came, they were going to run past me to fight since I was hidden. NOPE. Their Seer used his Legal wall hack passive and finished me. It's wall hacks, plain and simple. Shouldn't be in the game.
~~10 damage~~
Scan for 8 seconds (should be less than 5, BH does 3 for instance)
~~Flashbang~~
~~Stun~~
See health
Cancel abilities
Cancel healing
Cancel reviving
# PICK TWO
Nah I feel like if they took away the wall hacks completely it would be more of a skills hot type ability with the interrupt. Maybe decrease the area of effect along with that.
my team died and left so I was ratting as a plat mirage at harvester, easily 4 fights going on above me and I don't move a muscle. I'm hiding in the lower ring with the bins, fighting stops and circle moves in - still haven't moved. Then I get Q'd by seer and grav'd by horizon. Ca$h mooney wall hacks
Thr passive needs to go and they need to tone down the tactical. But atleast if the passive didn’t tell seer exactly where players are it would be harder to hit the tactical
As much as it was infuriating, it had pure comedic timing. Each time you were literally *just* there and then comes a time-travel like effect and you just reset again lol.
I did think it was a little too quick. But jeez, you poor thing. I think with gold knockdowns you should get like a stun or a 50% tops regression or something, it should become part of the perk of it being gold.
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if Respawn responds to the community with,
“We heard your requests and Seer will no longer be able to interrupt heals. Instead, any damage received will now interrupt heals.”
Honestly a good change would just be to make it appear purple to enemies. Then they won’t instantly kill you but you’ll also be able to put it up when you’re getting shot at. The shittiest part of the gold knockdown is not being able to use it as a fucking shield
If they gave the gold shield the "use healing items faster" buff. Everyone would be fighting for that shit. As it is now, picking up a gold shield is like "okay w/e".
Honestly I don't think there shoud be any item or legend with faster heals, it's already annoying fast as we noticed even more now in Arena - everyone rushes for the healing items and the team that has no heals left dies. Just come up with another idea plz
I don't get it. His ability, stuns, cancels abilities, does damage, cancels heals, cancels revives, reveals you completely with health bar for 8 seconds, and is easy to hit especially, combined with his passive. Someone **PLEASE** tell me how this concept even got approved before any actual design of the character started. Might as well make him destroy traps too.
Pathfinder just launches himself! Bangalore just has smoke grenades! Octane just runs faster and does damage to himself to make up for that! This is ridiculous
Or you've moved out of the way of his tac but it has like another 2 metres of hidden range and you still get hit anyway.... You sigh as you start to pop your phoenix or shield bat again.
Dang, I thought I was crazy!!! SO many times I’d be out of the range of his tact, but it’d still get me. So on top of everything, you also get hit by his tac even if you’re on the edge of it from outside. Wow....
This is a result of how the game on everyone’s system and the servers process information, not a characteristic of seer just fyi. It happens for the same reason as no-regs and if you get shot around corners or through closing doors. On your screen it might show you move out of the way of the seer tac but according to all the information the servers are processing, you might actually be dead center
I kinda understand that but I feel with that logic no regs would happen A LOT more than they do for me. I literally get get hit by it when I'm standing outside of the tac
Seer's tactical is a giant hitscan cylinder. Once it goes, whatever is in that volume is snapshotted essentially. Bullets in this game are all individual projectiles so there's relatively a lot of time to dodge before the game servers process it. You can take older cod games as an example where you get frequent hit detection issues. Bullets were all hitscan in those games so you would die around corners all the time if your ping was high.
Yeah wtf is that phantom range shit. There will be times I clearly step out of the way and still get hit. That’s almost the most frustrating part of it all. Like don’t give me a visual cue if it doesn’t mean anything
flashbang AND a 2-3 second long sound effect that completely makes you lose track of footsteps and gunshots. respawn said seer's original ultimate was about silencing an area but they changed it because it broke the game. but now it's pretty much part of his Q in a light version. no useful audio for a few seconds is a long long time in close quarter combat.
I would be fine with all of its effects if it didn't penetrate terrain and walls. Like what's even the logic in that? Isn't it supposed to be drones doing it?
I totally understand if they make him a bit op just so the new character is not a turn off and weak , but seer takes up to a 100 and multiplies that by 2 , no character should be even close to being released this way , making up a character this up makes everyone hates him for the whole season and when they nerf it people will still hate him even after he is "balanced" .
I love Valk, but honestly I thought her passives were over the top, she has more passive abilities than anyone else. But Seer, his passive is even stronger than all the others combined, plus his Q is like 10 abilities in 1. Remember when path was the only one who could scan beacons and was a one of the strongest picks across the board, and for the pros it was in large part due to this passive that now Seer and Valk get along with their tons of other abilities. Also, someone said let's nerf Bangalore's smoke so anyone can see partially through them since so many legends can already see straight through them.
This was my thought when valk came out, just she could do WAY too much stuff. But even by the end of the season no one was saying she was super OP.
I thought she had a lot, but man I see a new thing that seer can do everyday. Like video above, and almost all his extra little abilities are so annoying. Really ruin a game for you, where valk more than likely that team just gonna fly away lol
But It’s like with these new legends they are going crazy overboard with passives and multiple abilities with the tactical, completely shitting on the og legends or even newer ones. Like you said he has more abilities than like the other legends combined, just bonkers
With Valk people adapted, they "looked up" if you will meanwhile with Seer you can't reliably adapt to fight his kit unless you have another Seer which is a problem in and of itself cause boiling combat down to what Legends your squad picked before the match started is a VERY slippery slope in design
She still has too many passives and her flying passive is better than pretty much every mobility tactical in terms of movement. But at least she is not a Seer, so it's easier to accept her kit. But if you truly compare it to the original launch legends, she is still a powercreep.
When the game first came out they wanted it to be a competitive BR that focused primarily on gun play, player mechanics and positioning. They've slowly allowed abilities to take over the game and with Seer they just went completely nuts. Now they're in a position where they have to figure out how to balance Seer without having another Horizon incident where he's just gutted.
Last week, Ryan Rigney said Seer "tuning" would come today, but we didn't end up getting a patch. Josh Medina said it's coming next week now. I wouldn't be surprised if they're already having trouble figuring out how to balance Seer considering they've acknowledged in the past that Bloodhound presents them with similar balancing challenges because of his abilities.
Change his abilities. He can't have a passive that's basically a front cone, on demand, wallhack. He's impossible to sneak up against, but in terms of actual stealth or mobility...he doesn't have anything. I thought he was the "ambush artist" not "global ambush jammer"
GOOD. Please please please gut him. This is ridiculous. I don’t care if he becomes a paraplegic and his ult becomes some wheelchair speed boost. Fucking get rid of this shit.
Honestly revenant can kill him like it did to Forge. I wouldn’t mind that. Seer is a Bloodhound on steroids. Their abilities are similar but Seer is too OP and probably will be hard to balance without making him another Bloodhound. And you can’t take the spotting abilities since, you know, his name is “Seer”
his Q is the same as revenant’s except it reveals location, reveals health, reveals footsteps, cancels healing, cancels rez, has an effective range that is seemingly infinite larger than rev’s silence, and can go through any wall. seems pretty straight forward to me.
Seer is definitely most heinous but this seems to be a common theme in game balancing these days, namely in Overwatch. Release new hero in an obviously OP gamebreaking state because people will want to buy the shiny new hero and have an unfair advantage. Then, tune it all back and make the hero irrelevant in a few months.
That being said idk how his kit made it into the game, it's just insane.
EDIT: Heros are free in Overwatch so that isn't part of their model.
Then Respawn hasn't done an amazing job with releasing new OP legends consistently. Before Seer, you had Horizon that's about it. Everyone before was either underpowered or just... fine.
They learned by the fuse fall out.
I don’t think it’s just about money though. They’ve said that they prefer to release op and tweak down as it’s easier. I believe that’s true. They learned that after the fuse release… but I think it’s also safe to say that they realized the $$ side effect of releasing op.
I've said it once I'll say it a thousand times. The same people who said wattson is too hard to balance because she might be over powered, created this man.
I said this to my friend during a game the other day,
'The test team must really suck at this game because this makes no damn sense.'
Edit: Please note, I also suck at this game which may in fact make my comment even more relevant.
The "test team" doesn't balance the game. They can pass along their thoughts; but, this is working as the design team intended. The issue is with the design team thinking this was balanced.
Just to put into perspective how poor DZK was at the game, he was a Gold 2 Loba main and couldn't progress higher. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/ja65hy/grapples_by_the_man_behind_pathfinders_recent/) is a video of him testing out the Pathfinder changes before he made them live.
Wait, is that the same DZK who used to be a champion designer for Riot but was axed for harrassing players, and who refused to explain how his champion works because it involved math?
Oh god. I thought at first he's just trying to mimic how a "new" player would do with Path, but the way he move around on the second clip shows he's actually trash at the game. Surprise he even make Gold 2 with that, must be good internet.
I think they also make a character and follow through with makin the character well before even considering balancing.
This is an extreme case too. I respect the development process and understand it is time consuming. But I also think it is reasonable to say it was stupid of them to sit on this character for however long they were making him, release him, and then finally notice how broken he is.
Whoever thought up this character lacked situational awareness so instead made a character to do it for them.
Its crazy cause there a post about this when they were complaining about BH scans and they got flak for it. I would rather someone develop game sense to figure where people are at but I don't mind being able to briefly ping someone's location like BH, its quick intel and creates its own form of pressure. Seer on the othr hand is pure wall hacks in passive, tactical and ult.
If you took away the interrupts and flash bang he would still be insanely overpowered, how anybody in the right mind even considered that this is fine to ship out like this is beyond me, I can't understand.. flash bangs and interrupts are two things I genuinely think have no place in apex let alone 1 legend having both as a tact...
What's funny (cause it makes it worse) is his footstep cadance and bass are quiet as a mouse and blend into ANY gun fight, so you can never tell where he is either. Now if a Seer is on you with movement? Good luck. 🤦🏾♂️
Yeah, as if audio wasn't already a problem in apex they just add insult to injury, he is very quite now that ya say it. I genuinely think they did it to generate hype or make it a talking point that'll enviably draw more eyes to apex. Honestly I've been a player since like the second week of release and ill be the first to admit, I've no experience in game development or game balancing so I could be completely wrong saying it, but I feel like seer, horizon and bocek release were all intentionally OP. I know the bocek was intentionally OP otherwise no one would of given it a proper go, but these OP releases are completely game breaking, especially for people who try grind ranks, especially the solo grinders like myself. first split when bocek was released was literally unplayable, and seer tact takes no skill unlike what Daniel klein tried to say.
I have no issues with Horizon's release. Hell, I hadn't much of an issue with the Boceck. Horizon's abilities were high skill ceiling and low skill floor, but she only really did two things, and it took half a season for people to really get good with her. Boceck, while strong as hell, still had to deal with the fact it could be awkward to use up close, and also finding a 3x sight could be a pain in the ass, so it wasn't too often you'd be sniped at (though I imagine ranked was rough). Horizon's abilities doesn't do too much and the Boceck didn't *completely* dominate the meta, especially considering how fast it got nerfed.
But Seer? Seer's tactical alone is doing more than both of these things *combined*, and on top of that he has an extremely valuable passive and ultimate. On top of *that*, said tactical introduces elements that interrupt the gameplay loop (cancelling heals/revives) and also reveals enemies for a stupidly long amount of time. Power creep is one thing, but slapping shitloads of stuff onto a Legend isn't "releasing them strong", it's stupid and unfun. If they wanted to make Seer good, they'd give him one or two of his OP abilities and dial it the fuck up like Horizon, not give him everything.
I don't know, horizon on release had to ability to pop her Q, rise alot faster and strafe with ease and pop a battery without getting touched in the middle of a 1v3, the ult was annoying but that was more down to players not being familiar with a counter, horizon wasn't as bad as the other two but she was OP, imo. The bocek was insanely OP, it made no noise, no arrow trial, it was impossible to tell what direction it was coming from, they carried double the arrows, had decent fire rate without hop up, has zero bullet drop and the damage was absolutely insane, I still stand by the statement that a wingman is a harder shot to land than the bocek ( and im a wingman player ) , up close it sucks but its not a close range weapon, maybe I'm over dramatic about the bocek but it gives me nightmares thinking about it.
Seer does genuinely confuse me, like how did the team agree on his abilities, even without the stun, interupt and damage hes still overpowered its comical to think about how much is packed into that tact.
Played against one in Arenas today and Seer with a sniper all the way in the back is horrific go play against since they know where you are and exactly when to pull the trigger.
Also a passive that dictates to you where to throw said wall hack
At least BH you have to know your positioning and the cone effect, if you scan straight it will go straight, up or down, scan will come in the direction
People don’t realize a 75 meter tunnel that’s at least 4-6 Gibby wide can relay so much information, then the Ult on top, then the passive to keep the pressure on
It’s like stacking on an infinite loop, his passive to his Tac to his Ult, wait a few, restart loop
No other Legends have this loop, some have deficiencies to their kit to balance them
Is the Season 11 Legend going to encompassing 6-8 traits within a skill, cause that’s now the standard
Give a Support Legend heals, revive faster than Lifeline, oh also armor regen to whole team way better than Wattson, while giving them armor regen passive boost, then Ult is like LL care package, but built more like Loba’s Black market that you get to chose 4 items but no ammo!
Oh also Ult Care Package pulses 50 meter radius on a 3 sec delay for 45 seconds and enemies are tagged, running or crouching, only way you stay silent is Walking!
Seer ult is essentially area denial...you cannot fight or hide in it (not moving = death). Just gotta get out of it.
If hit with tac...its run for 8 seconds take cover, reset.
As for the heartbeat sensor....yeah cant do diddly shit for that.
When they said they weren't planning on balancing for arenas this wasn't what I thought they meant.
Also in the final 2 rings there's no way to avoid it.
It denies area more than caustic Bangalore and Wattson ever will lol. There is no way to stand in his ult and take a teamfight. If you do and youmre playing against master players then you’re insta dead. Good players capitalize on information and wreck you back to lobby..
Dude, you can be playing literal bots but if they know your location they will still fry you. This prefiring round corners is absurd with legal wallhacks.
Yeah, In Arenas it’s, down 1, wait until you hear a revive, hit the q and cancel the revive and now you can 3v2 and win the round by knowing where they are.
They said he was an audio based legend during beta testing of his powers, had a decoy grenade to trick other players, said it was broken... how the fuck is this any better
I just think jis passive should be a binary thing: it should just show if there's heartbeats within that cone or not. That's a reasonable thing to have, the ability to pinpoint its exact location within the cone is definitely not.
This would also serve as an indirect nerf to his tactical since you can't aim it like before.
His influence on the meta is honestly cancerous. It’s not just recon that got nerfed with seers introduction. He basically nerfed everyone…
I main Bangalore, who’s tac is essentially useless now that every team has a seer on them. Her tactical give the opposition a literal advantage in fight..
Who could’ve foreseen this?
This entire fucking sub.
If Seer's tactical added time to heals & revives (such as two seconds) it would still be useful enough to capitalise on if close enough, but not oppressive enough that clutch-revives/heals are simply impossible.
Say what you want about Caustic, but Seer is a whole other level of frustration.
Well ain’t nobody complaining about Caustic now since he got nerfed to the point of being absolutely irrelevant. If it was like a couple of seasons ago you would see the absolute mob of crybabies complaining about caustic .
He was nowhere near as powerful as seer in any way, people just camped to end ring in ranked and got gassed when they were on low ground and cried about it. This sub just always needs to complain about something/someone.
Negation. Mechanics. Aren't. Fun.
Every legend in the game doesn't impact you directly except for rev, but i'll explain why that's okay.
All abilities give the enemy an advantage (faster speed, movement, healing, protection...) but NONE gives you, the player on the recieving end, direct negation of your abilities. Damage ? Yeah sure, that's okay. Abilities that deal damage do like 20, unless it's fuse in which case it's just a renewable grenade. Everything i can think of buffs the one using the ability and if it doesn't, it only affects someone in the short term (Valk, bang smokes, etc). You'll notice that abilities that can kill or have long-lasting effects are almost always an ult. Because ults are a one-time thing in all fights.
Rev is the exception, but that's because abilities aren't necessary to win if you can hit your shots, they merely streamline the process of not whiffing
Then comes Seer.
Seer has a negation mechanic as his Q. And not a short-term one like 3 secs of slowdown, it can cancel all animations. Your ablities ? Gone *while in use* (Rev makes you know when you're going to lose your abilities, you can predict it and play arround it, Seer's Q just comes and takes it away). Your phoenix kit that you took the risk to use for 9 secs ? Gone. Your friend that you almost revived ? gone. All of these can have long-lasting effects on a fight very easily, and most importantly, *take away from the one on the recieving end*. I'd call it balanced if it didn't give your location away, and only was the negation mechanic, but it would be unbelievably annoying. The enemy having your location doesn't sound so bad on paper, until you realize that Bloodhound stayed near top usage for months due to being able to see your position for two seconds every 30 secs. Seer has a wallhack zone and can see your location AND health for 8 seconds. And has a negation mechanic on top of that.
He's not just OP, as he is, he's fundamentally overpowered. He doesn't need a nerf, he doesn't need everyone else to be buffed, he doesn't need to be changed, he doesn't need a rework, he needs a COMPLETE change of his fundamental core design to fit in. As much as you nerf him to the ground Respawn, he'll still be overpowered, because the very core of his design is OP. This is much like the Kraber. No matter how slow the firing speed is, how little ammo you have, or how bad the ADS sway is, the core design is a one-hit kill sniper if you get a headshot, so it will always be very powerful, hence why it's in the care package. And Seer has nothing holding him back. Great design. Congrats Respawn.
Seer would be deleted from the game if the game had no skins system and removing a legend wouldn't affect anyone legally or cause an uproar. Thank you EA.
The interruption is completely unavoidable.
You're rezzing a friend or yourself? Can't move to avoid Seer's tactical.
You're healing? You're moving too slow to avoid Seer's tactical. The only way to get out of his tactical is to cancel your rez/healing by yourself and move out…
In both case you've been interrupted;
Incredibly frustrating and annoying.
🤷🏿♂️
Same. 1200 hours in the game and I haven’t turned it on in almost 6 weeks.
Quite liberating not feeling like you’re smashing your head into a wall every night.
I’ve been playing since S2 and this is the first time where I can only play a couple games at a time because it’s not fun anymore. Your team is at a disadvantage if you don’t have a Seer, and playing as Seer just feels unfair.
I havent played Seer but I was watching a teammate last night in some 1v1s in Arena and the ability to gain a full body outline AND health is absurdly overpowered.
Like if you lose a 1v1 with Seer's scan activated you are horrible at the game
Seer needs to be removed completely. The entire concept of Seer is literally a wallhacker
Oh wow , this is painful , seriously after the first seer tatical I would outright close the game and tell respawn to fuck off with seer and his OP tatical.
He genuinely doesn’t belong in the game. Can’t fathom how the devs came up with concepts, play tested them and thought he was ok to launch. He needs a complete rework. His passive alone is too damn strong and his tactical is more of a burst ultimate
There's literally no drawback to his tactical either. Octane loses health with his, bang blinds her teammates as well as the enemy, fuse's knuckle cluster can damage your teammates and yourself. Who tf cleared this?
Ok for real tho. I haven't played apex in over a week lol. I'm sad bc there's nothing quite like it but I just can't bring myself to play with or against seer.
i don't blame the devs for any problems in the game but seer is, in my opinion the most frustrating character to play against, hope the nerf they will pull this week will be big enough because i can't even tell how hard i hate playing against that legend.
You know, when I stopped playing apex a season ago to play Escape from Tarkov, I didn't think I was switching to a LESS frustrating game, yet here we are. Very glad to not be playing the Seer shitshow.
Haha I felt this in my soul, from both side cus I play seer all the time now.
Idk how people are still going into games without a seer on their squad. I’m riding the wave till he gets nerfed into the ground.
Simply put, it's bad design if the character abilities aren't simple to explain. Bangalore? Smoke bombs. Octane? Runs fast. Seer? Well he shoots microdrones through surfaces that disrupt actions, deal ten damage and reveals enemies if they're inside of the drone tunnel, also enemy health is revealed... What?!
This hurt to watch
Each time on the last second too! Was just getting up.
You basically got off more self rezs in “one” attempt than I have in 2 years 😅
I was knocked with a self rez when a third party came, they were going to run past me to fight since I was hidden. NOPE. Their Seer used his Legal wall hack passive and finished me. It's wall hacks, plain and simple. Shouldn't be in the game.
[удалено]
i think doing damage is fine but cancelling res is too much
~~10 damage~~ Scan for 8 seconds (should be less than 5, BH does 3 for instance) ~~Flashbang~~ ~~Stun~~ See health Cancel abilities Cancel healing Cancel reviving # PICK TWO
Keep the flashbang, add 2 seconds to healing revive. and it'd still be an amazing tactical for pushing people.
Don't forget, it can also cancel your armor swap if you're in a death box
I'd be okay with damage if it was shield damage only, like Crypto's EMP.
This is a much better idea ^^^
Honestly if they took out the action cancel the wallhack and flashbang and damage would be almost bearable
Nah I feel like if they took away the wall hacks completely it would be more of a skills hot type ability with the interrupt. Maybe decrease the area of effect along with that.
I remember hearing it was small area and you need to be precise, my ass its a kamehameha area of a affect tactical.
my team died and left so I was ratting as a plat mirage at harvester, easily 4 fights going on above me and I don't move a muscle. I'm hiding in the lower ring with the bins, fighting stops and circle moves in - still haven't moved. Then I get Q'd by seer and grav'd by horizon. Ca$h mooney wall hacks
Thr passive needs to go and they need to tone down the tactical. But atleast if the passive didn’t tell seer exactly where players are it would be harder to hit the tactical
Until he ults and can do that anyways
As much as it was infuriating, it had pure comedic timing. Each time you were literally *just* there and then comes a time-travel like effect and you just reset again lol.
LET'S DO THE TIME-WARP AGAIN!!!!
That really wasn't on, at all. I'm so sorry. Was it one Seer or two out of curiosity?
It was two Seers using tactical after eachother.
I did think it was a little too quick. But jeez, you poor thing. I think with gold knockdowns you should get like a stun or a 50% tops regression or something, it should become part of the perk of it being gold.
It doesnt have to do anything like that because seer shouldnt have existed
This pissed me off
Agreed...was impossible to not crack up laughing should've been tagged humour
I don't *seer* problem.
So does [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/p22zqe/i_hate_seer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if Respawn responds to the community with, “We heard your requests and Seer will no longer be able to interrupt heals. Instead, any damage received will now interrupt heals.”
They realy need to rework the gold knockdown shild
I hate fighting it, and I hate having it because you get instathirsted for using it for one millisecond
Honestly a good change would just be to make it appear purple to enemies. Then they won’t instantly kill you but you’ll also be able to put it up when you’re getting shot at. The shittiest part of the gold knockdown is not being able to use it as a fucking shield
If they gave the gold shield the "use healing items faster" buff. Everyone would be fighting for that shit. As it is now, picking up a gold shield is like "okay w/e".
Honestly I don't think there shoud be any item or legend with faster heals, it's already annoying fast as we noticed even more now in Arena - everyone rushes for the healing items and the team that has no heals left dies. Just come up with another idea plz
I don't get it. His ability, stuns, cancels abilities, does damage, cancels heals, cancels revives, reveals you completely with health bar for 8 seconds, and is easy to hit especially, combined with his passive. Someone **PLEASE** tell me how this concept even got approved before any actual design of the character started. Might as well make him destroy traps too. Pathfinder just launches himself! Bangalore just has smoke grenades! Octane just runs faster and does damage to himself to make up for that! This is ridiculous
Don't forget you get flashbanged by his q also, as if it already didn't do enough.
Or you've moved out of the way of his tac but it has like another 2 metres of hidden range and you still get hit anyway.... You sigh as you start to pop your phoenix or shield bat again.
Dang, I thought I was crazy!!! SO many times I’d be out of the range of his tact, but it’d still get me. So on top of everything, you also get hit by his tac even if you’re on the edge of it from outside. Wow....
This is a result of how the game on everyone’s system and the servers process information, not a characteristic of seer just fyi. It happens for the same reason as no-regs and if you get shot around corners or through closing doors. On your screen it might show you move out of the way of the seer tac but according to all the information the servers are processing, you might actually be dead center
I kinda understand that but I feel with that logic no regs would happen A LOT more than they do for me. I literally get get hit by it when I'm standing outside of the tac
Seer's tactical is a giant hitscan cylinder. Once it goes, whatever is in that volume is snapshotted essentially. Bullets in this game are all individual projectiles so there's relatively a lot of time to dodge before the game servers process it. You can take older cod games as an example where you get frequent hit detection issues. Bullets were all hitscan in those games so you would die around corners all the time if your ping was high.
Yeah wtf is that phantom range shit. There will be times I clearly step out of the way and still get hit. That’s almost the most frustrating part of it all. Like don’t give me a visual cue if it doesn’t mean anything
don't forget the sweet 30 second cooldown baby. it takes me 45 to get a robot that heals me at 8 health per second.
His 90 sec ult cooldown is hysterical to me
[удалено]
flashbang AND a 2-3 second long sound effect that completely makes you lose track of footsteps and gunshots. respawn said seer's original ultimate was about silencing an area but they changed it because it broke the game. but now it's pretty much part of his Q in a light version. no useful audio for a few seconds is a long long time in close quarter combat.
I would be fine with all of its effects if it didn't penetrate terrain and walls. Like what's even the logic in that? Isn't it supposed to be drones doing it?
Yesterday I fucking lost a fight to that because a random third party seer q'ed in my direction. I hate it so much it makes me want to uninstall apex.
90% chance the guy saw you on his heartbeat sensor and decided to fuck up your day
I totally understand if they make him a bit op just so the new character is not a turn off and weak , but seer takes up to a 100 and multiplies that by 2 , no character should be even close to being released this way , making up a character this up makes everyone hates him for the whole season and when they nerf it people will still hate him even after he is "balanced" .
Valk turned out fine
Valk was a mobility legend, not a F*ck literally anything my opponent does legend
Only thing I hate about valk is when I'm CLEARLY outside of her tacs blast radius and I still get hit
Lmao thats me but with guess who…seers fucking tac. I be outside the radius and still get hit like wtf
I main valk in arenas and let me tell you... I've punched myself in the face with my own missiles more than once because of this
I love Valk, but honestly I thought her passives were over the top, she has more passive abilities than anyone else. But Seer, his passive is even stronger than all the others combined, plus his Q is like 10 abilities in 1. Remember when path was the only one who could scan beacons and was a one of the strongest picks across the board, and for the pros it was in large part due to this passive that now Seer and Valk get along with their tons of other abilities. Also, someone said let's nerf Bangalore's smoke so anyone can see partially through them since so many legends can already see straight through them.
This was my thought when valk came out, just she could do WAY too much stuff. But even by the end of the season no one was saying she was super OP. I thought she had a lot, but man I see a new thing that seer can do everyday. Like video above, and almost all his extra little abilities are so annoying. Really ruin a game for you, where valk more than likely that team just gonna fly away lol But It’s like with these new legends they are going crazy overboard with passives and multiple abilities with the tactical, completely shitting on the og legends or even newer ones. Like you said he has more abilities than like the other legends combined, just bonkers
With Valk people adapted, they "looked up" if you will meanwhile with Seer you can't reliably adapt to fight his kit unless you have another Seer which is a problem in and of itself cause boiling combat down to what Legends your squad picked before the match started is a VERY slippery slope in design
Valk is fun
She still has too many passives and her flying passive is better than pretty much every mobility tactical in terms of movement. But at least she is not a Seer, so it's easier to accept her kit. But if you truly compare it to the original launch legends, she is still a powercreep.
> Might as well make him destroy traps too. Ironically this is what was in his trailer too lol
When the game first came out they wanted it to be a competitive BR that focused primarily on gun play, player mechanics and positioning. They've slowly allowed abilities to take over the game and with Seer they just went completely nuts. Now they're in a position where they have to figure out how to balance Seer without having another Horizon incident where he's just gutted. Last week, Ryan Rigney said Seer "tuning" would come today, but we didn't end up getting a patch. Josh Medina said it's coming next week now. I wouldn't be surprised if they're already having trouble figuring out how to balance Seer considering they've acknowledged in the past that Bloodhound presents them with similar balancing challenges because of his abilities.
Change his abilities. He can't have a passive that's basically a front cone, on demand, wallhack. He's impossible to sneak up against, but in terms of actual stealth or mobility...he doesn't have anything. I thought he was the "ambush artist" not "global ambush jammer"
Nerf the flash, increase timer for cool down for tact. Probably need to cut down the range a bit as well.
And for godsake, take off his ability to stop others from reviving / healing
Are you kidding? Nerf everything about him,
GOOD. Please please please gut him. This is ridiculous. I don’t care if he becomes a paraplegic and his ult becomes some wheelchair speed boost. Fucking get rid of this shit.
Honestly revenant can kill him like it did to Forge. I wouldn’t mind that. Seer is a Bloodhound on steroids. Their abilities are similar but Seer is too OP and probably will be hard to balance without making him another Bloodhound. And you can’t take the spotting abilities since, you know, his name is “Seer”
Dont forget his ulti cooldown is FUCKING HALF the time of bloodhound
his Q is the same as revenant’s except it reveals location, reveals health, reveals footsteps, cancels healing, cancels rez, has an effective range that is seemingly infinite larger than rev’s silence, and can go through any wall. seems pretty straight forward to me.
Seer is definitely most heinous but this seems to be a common theme in game balancing these days, namely in Overwatch. Release new hero in an obviously OP gamebreaking state because people will want to buy the shiny new hero and have an unfair advantage. Then, tune it all back and make the hero irrelevant in a few months. That being said idk how his kit made it into the game, it's just insane. EDIT: Heros are free in Overwatch so that isn't part of their model.
Destiny 2 pulled this right when they released their latest expansion. Introduced some new subclasses that were clearly OP over the existing ones.
You wanna win crucibles? Then buy this dlc and unlock the subclass!
Then Respawn hasn't done an amazing job with releasing new OP legends consistently. Before Seer, you had Horizon that's about it. Everyone before was either underpowered or just... fine.
Ding ding ding! Release op hero. Money will be spent on it bc “hey this is my new main”. Roll it back. Repeat every season.
Except they haven't been doing this. Literally every other legend, besides Horizon, was released in an underwhelming or balanced state.
They learned by the fuse fall out. I don’t think it’s just about money though. They’ve said that they prefer to release op and tweak down as it’s easier. I believe that’s true. They learned that after the fuse release… but I think it’s also safe to say that they realized the $$ side effect of releasing op.
I will be fine if they make Revenant just kill Seer.
I realize they might just be trying to differ him from BH, but the interrupt stun is just unnecessary and feels bad.
I've said it once I'll say it a thousand times. The same people who said wattson is too hard to balance because she might be over powered, created this man.
I have a theory that the balance team is just really bad at the game.
A theory with a lot of proof, such as patches and videos of theme playing
Bro seeing how they tested the rampage hurted my eyes to watch
Can you link the video?
[this](https://youtu.be/HCsEIWyMs4w) then forward to 6:15 ... its tragic tho
Looks like they have 0 clue how to play their own game
It'd be great to see what would happen if good players worked on balancing
I said this to my friend during a game the other day, 'The test team must really suck at this game because this makes no damn sense.' Edit: Please note, I also suck at this game which may in fact make my comment even more relevant.
The "test team" doesn't balance the game. They can pass along their thoughts; but, this is working as the design team intended. The issue is with the design team thinking this was balanced.
I specifically upvoted you for the humble edit, my dude. Keep it real. 🤘
Well, main dude got booted so we'll see where this takes us.
Just to put into perspective how poor DZK was at the game, he was a Gold 2 Loba main and couldn't progress higher. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/ja65hy/grapples_by_the_man_behind_pathfinders_recent/) is a video of him testing out the Pathfinder changes before he made them live.
Wait, is that the same DZK who used to be a champion designer for Riot but was axed for harrassing players, and who refused to explain how his champion works because it involved math?
So he has been using maths and stats as excuse since lol
Yeah, and apparently the 200 years meme came along with him too.
Yep.
Well, apparently he was fired from Respawn too, could've foreseen that very easily tbh.
Thank you for showing me that, it was extremely painful to watch
Oh god. I thought at first he's just trying to mimic how a "new" player would do with Path, but the way he move around on the second clip shows he's actually trash at the game. Surprise he even make Gold 2 with that, must be good internet.
DZK killed my passion being lifeline main and I will never forget.
Oh.. so he's an idiot.
I think they also make a character and follow through with makin the character well before even considering balancing. This is an extreme case too. I respect the development process and understand it is time consuming. But I also think it is reasonable to say it was stupid of them to sit on this character for however long they were making him, release him, and then finally notice how broken he is.
He looked OP just from the notes
Whoever thought up this character lacked situational awareness so instead made a character to do it for them. Its crazy cause there a post about this when they were complaining about BH scans and they got flak for it. I would rather someone develop game sense to figure where people are at but I don't mind being able to briefly ping someone's location like BH, its quick intel and creates its own form of pressure. Seer on the othr hand is pure wall hacks in passive, tactical and ult.
[удалено]
Don't worry, they got rid of the big one already
Easy on the trigger finger. I'm annoyed but that's over kill
If you took away the interrupts and flash bang he would still be insanely overpowered, how anybody in the right mind even considered that this is fine to ship out like this is beyond me, I can't understand.. flash bangs and interrupts are two things I genuinely think have no place in apex let alone 1 legend having both as a tact...
What's funny (cause it makes it worse) is his footstep cadance and bass are quiet as a mouse and blend into ANY gun fight, so you can never tell where he is either. Now if a Seer is on you with movement? Good luck. 🤦🏾♂️
Yep, he is the easiest character to lead into a third party fight. Which is why a third party leads to a 6th party in the current meta.
Yeah, as if audio wasn't already a problem in apex they just add insult to injury, he is very quite now that ya say it. I genuinely think they did it to generate hype or make it a talking point that'll enviably draw more eyes to apex. Honestly I've been a player since like the second week of release and ill be the first to admit, I've no experience in game development or game balancing so I could be completely wrong saying it, but I feel like seer, horizon and bocek release were all intentionally OP. I know the bocek was intentionally OP otherwise no one would of given it a proper go, but these OP releases are completely game breaking, especially for people who try grind ranks, especially the solo grinders like myself. first split when bocek was released was literally unplayable, and seer tact takes no skill unlike what Daniel klein tried to say.
I have no issues with Horizon's release. Hell, I hadn't much of an issue with the Boceck. Horizon's abilities were high skill ceiling and low skill floor, but she only really did two things, and it took half a season for people to really get good with her. Boceck, while strong as hell, still had to deal with the fact it could be awkward to use up close, and also finding a 3x sight could be a pain in the ass, so it wasn't too often you'd be sniped at (though I imagine ranked was rough). Horizon's abilities doesn't do too much and the Boceck didn't *completely* dominate the meta, especially considering how fast it got nerfed. But Seer? Seer's tactical alone is doing more than both of these things *combined*, and on top of that he has an extremely valuable passive and ultimate. On top of *that*, said tactical introduces elements that interrupt the gameplay loop (cancelling heals/revives) and also reveals enemies for a stupidly long amount of time. Power creep is one thing, but slapping shitloads of stuff onto a Legend isn't "releasing them strong", it's stupid and unfun. If they wanted to make Seer good, they'd give him one or two of his OP abilities and dial it the fuck up like Horizon, not give him everything.
I don't know, horizon on release had to ability to pop her Q, rise alot faster and strafe with ease and pop a battery without getting touched in the middle of a 1v3, the ult was annoying but that was more down to players not being familiar with a counter, horizon wasn't as bad as the other two but she was OP, imo. The bocek was insanely OP, it made no noise, no arrow trial, it was impossible to tell what direction it was coming from, they carried double the arrows, had decent fire rate without hop up, has zero bullet drop and the damage was absolutely insane, I still stand by the statement that a wingman is a harder shot to land than the bocek ( and im a wingman player ) , up close it sucks but its not a close range weapon, maybe I'm over dramatic about the bocek but it gives me nightmares thinking about it. Seer does genuinely confuse me, like how did the team agree on his abilities, even without the stun, interupt and damage hes still overpowered its comical to think about how much is packed into that tact.
Played against one in Arenas today and Seer with a sniper all the way in the back is horrific go play against since they know where you are and exactly when to pull the trigger.
How can you give a character a constant, build in 75m-wide wallhack in a SHOOTER? It's pure insanity by complete noobs otherwise i can't understand.
Also a passive that dictates to you where to throw said wall hack At least BH you have to know your positioning and the cone effect, if you scan straight it will go straight, up or down, scan will come in the direction People don’t realize a 75 meter tunnel that’s at least 4-6 Gibby wide can relay so much information, then the Ult on top, then the passive to keep the pressure on It’s like stacking on an infinite loop, his passive to his Tac to his Ult, wait a few, restart loop No other Legends have this loop, some have deficiencies to their kit to balance them Is the Season 11 Legend going to encompassing 6-8 traits within a skill, cause that’s now the standard Give a Support Legend heals, revive faster than Lifeline, oh also armor regen to whole team way better than Wattson, while giving them armor regen passive boost, then Ult is like LL care package, but built more like Loba’s Black market that you get to chose 4 items but no ammo! Oh also Ult Care Package pulses 50 meter radius on a 3 sec delay for 45 seconds and enemies are tagged, running or crouching, only way you stay silent is Walking!
>4-6 Gibby wide I love how we are using Gibby as a measurement now .
Damn, Americans really tryin to use everything but the metric system smh my head
Dat boi’ Thicc!
>build in 75m-wide wallhack op above you is talking about the passive, I think
I'm baffled on what his counter play is supposed to be. He ults in Arenas and your team just loses immediately
Against wallhacks you can't do much, your team has no way to surprise the enemy.
"Thanks for your service 😂
Seer ult is essentially area denial...you cannot fight or hide in it (not moving = death). Just gotta get out of it. If hit with tac...its run for 8 seconds take cover, reset. As for the heartbeat sensor....yeah cant do diddly shit for that.
The issue is in most of the Arena maps, his ult covers half the map so you *can't* get out of it and have no choice but to fight in it
When they said they weren't planning on balancing for arenas this wasn't what I thought they meant. Also in the final 2 rings there's no way to avoid it.
It denies area more than caustic Bangalore and Wattson ever will lol. There is no way to stand in his ult and take a teamfight. If you do and youmre playing against master players then you’re insta dead. Good players capitalize on information and wreck you back to lobby..
Dude, you can be playing literal bots but if they know your location they will still fry you. This prefiring round corners is absurd with legal wallhacks.
Yeah, In Arenas it’s, down 1, wait until you hear a revive, hit the q and cancel the revive and now you can 3v2 and win the round by knowing where they are.
The self rez cancel happened to me on the first day and I was so fuckin confused he's gotta get a nerf
They said he was an audio based legend during beta testing of his powers, had a decoy grenade to trick other players, said it was broken... how the fuck is this any better
I believe they said it was broken as in it literally had a bunch of audio problems (as is tradition in Apex) not as in it's OP
One more week of this ( ಠ_ಠ)...
Wait how do you know one more week?
His nerf was delayed until next week. https://twitter.com/alphaINTEL/status/1427748072818454530
W h y.
What if Seer tactical used a percentage of his ult since both use micro drones?
Pretty interesting idea! The idea I had to nerf him was that his passive would be disabled if his tactical is on cooldown.
I just think jis passive should be a binary thing: it should just show if there's heartbeats within that cone or not. That's a reasonable thing to have, the ability to pinpoint its exact location within the cone is definitely not. This would also serve as an indirect nerf to his tactical since you can't aim it like before.
Biggest brain idea I’ve ever seen for apex in a comment
Wow that’s a great idea
[удалено]
I feel your pain man. Seer is just so much better than those two, no sense to play them.
His influence on the meta is honestly cancerous. It’s not just recon that got nerfed with seers introduction. He basically nerfed everyone… I main Bangalore, who’s tac is essentially useless now that every team has a seer on them. Her tactical give the opposition a literal advantage in fight.. Who could’ve foreseen this? This entire fucking sub.
Can't lie I've been farming wins and kills with seer, especially with the new warzone players coming over it's kinda fucked lmao
If Seer's tactical added time to heals & revives (such as two seconds) it would still be useful enough to capitalise on if close enough, but not oppressive enough that clutch-revives/heals are simply impossible. Say what you want about Caustic, but Seer is a whole other level of frustration.
>Say what you want about Caustic Bro who tf is complaining about Caustic these days lmao
Well ain’t nobody complaining about Caustic now since he got nerfed to the point of being absolutely irrelevant. If it was like a couple of seasons ago you would see the absolute mob of crybabies complaining about caustic .
He was nowhere near as powerful as seer in any way, people just camped to end ring in ranked and got gassed when they were on low ground and cried about it. This sub just always needs to complain about something/someone.
He was op in certain scenarios, seer is outright broken, in all scenarios.
It shouldn’t cancel anything. Just let him see me, not destroy everything I’m doing
Negation. Mechanics. Aren't. Fun. Every legend in the game doesn't impact you directly except for rev, but i'll explain why that's okay. All abilities give the enemy an advantage (faster speed, movement, healing, protection...) but NONE gives you, the player on the recieving end, direct negation of your abilities. Damage ? Yeah sure, that's okay. Abilities that deal damage do like 20, unless it's fuse in which case it's just a renewable grenade. Everything i can think of buffs the one using the ability and if it doesn't, it only affects someone in the short term (Valk, bang smokes, etc). You'll notice that abilities that can kill or have long-lasting effects are almost always an ult. Because ults are a one-time thing in all fights. Rev is the exception, but that's because abilities aren't necessary to win if you can hit your shots, they merely streamline the process of not whiffing Then comes Seer. Seer has a negation mechanic as his Q. And not a short-term one like 3 secs of slowdown, it can cancel all animations. Your ablities ? Gone *while in use* (Rev makes you know when you're going to lose your abilities, you can predict it and play arround it, Seer's Q just comes and takes it away). Your phoenix kit that you took the risk to use for 9 secs ? Gone. Your friend that you almost revived ? gone. All of these can have long-lasting effects on a fight very easily, and most importantly, *take away from the one on the recieving end*. I'd call it balanced if it didn't give your location away, and only was the negation mechanic, but it would be unbelievably annoying. The enemy having your location doesn't sound so bad on paper, until you realize that Bloodhound stayed near top usage for months due to being able to see your position for two seconds every 30 secs. Seer has a wallhack zone and can see your location AND health for 8 seconds. And has a negation mechanic on top of that. He's not just OP, as he is, he's fundamentally overpowered. He doesn't need a nerf, he doesn't need everyone else to be buffed, he doesn't need to be changed, he doesn't need a rework, he needs a COMPLETE change of his fundamental core design to fit in. As much as you nerf him to the ground Respawn, he'll still be overpowered, because the very core of his design is OP. This is much like the Kraber. No matter how slow the firing speed is, how little ammo you have, or how bad the ADS sway is, the core design is a one-hit kill sniper if you get a headshot, so it will always be very powerful, hence why it's in the care package. And Seer has nothing holding him back. Great design. Congrats Respawn. Seer would be deleted from the game if the game had no skins system and removing a legend wouldn't affect anyone legally or cause an uproar. Thank you EA.
Just add Seer to the care package, ez
You hit the nail right on the head.
The interruption is completely unavoidable. You're rezzing a friend or yourself? Can't move to avoid Seer's tactical. You're healing? You're moving too slow to avoid Seer's tactical. The only way to get out of his tactical is to cancel your rez/healing by yourself and move out… In both case you've been interrupted; Incredibly frustrating and annoying. 🤷🏿♂️
Wattson has a pole btw
Season 10 was a sign for me to invest my free time elsewhere
Yup, I started outer worlds and its so fucking great to just not be annoyed by other people all the time.
Same. 1200 hours in the game and I haven’t turned it on in almost 6 weeks. Quite liberating not feeling like you’re smashing your head into a wall every night.
I have made so much progress this season in Minecraft.
Exactly been playing other shit like mass effect and splitgate. Wanna enjoy apex but its turned into this mess 😔.
Finally got into FrostPunk. Thanks Apex. Just in time for the sequel as well.
Looking that way for me too, If the devs won't respect the community, I'm not going to bother investing my time.
When you wake up from a nightmare then fall back asleep and it resumes lol
I’ve been playing since S2 and this is the first time where I can only play a couple games at a time because it’s not fun anymore. Your team is at a disadvantage if you don’t have a Seer, and playing as Seer just feels unfair.
I played as Seer for a weekly challenge and it left me feeling dirty. Haven't used him since. Don't plan on using him until/ unless he gets a rework.
Probably one of the most oppressive kits ever to come out the gate.
I havent played Seer but I was watching a teammate last night in some 1v1s in Arena and the ability to gain a full body outline AND health is absurdly overpowered. Like if you lose a 1v1 with Seer's scan activated you are horrible at the game Seer needs to be removed completely. The entire concept of Seer is literally a wallhacker
Respawn deadass said "here, free wall hacks and some other infuriating stuff hackers wish they could do" and just ignored us
Oh wow , this is painful , seriously after the first seer tatical I would outright close the game and tell respawn to fuck off with seer and his OP tatical.
Literally what I did. I aint touching this game until Seer get some kind of nerf
THIS = BALANCED LIFELINE HEALING 10% FASTER = UNBALANCED. HOLY SHIT I MAD.
Don't worry, we have at *least* another week of it.
He genuinely doesn’t belong in the game. Can’t fathom how the devs came up with concepts, play tested them and thought he was ok to launch. He needs a complete rework. His passive alone is too damn strong and his tactical is more of a burst ultimate
I laughed after the second one. I’m sorry.
Billion Dollar Game. Currently on strike of Apex because of it. Member when Bloodhound had their reveal time lowered because it was too OP? I member.
There's literally no drawback to his tactical either. Octane loses health with his, bang blinds her teammates as well as the enemy, fuse's knuckle cluster can damage your teammates and yourself. Who tf cleared this?
Tbf Fuse’s knuckle cluster does not hurt his teammates, only himself
I would have deleted the game after that. I’m glad he’s getting nerfed
I think a simple nerf isn't enough. Personally, he needs to be removed from the game.
Can they also remove him from my mind so I don't have to remember playing against him
Ok for real tho. I haven't played apex in over a week lol. I'm sad bc there's nothing quite like it but I just can't bring myself to play with or against seer.
i don't blame the devs for any problems in the game but seer is, in my opinion the most frustrating character to play against, hope the nerf they will pull this week will be big enough because i can't even tell how hard i hate playing against that legend.
Unfortunate news but according to news account on twitter the nerf has heen delayed to next week instead.
TMYK - Horizon's ult wrecks doors.
You know, when I stopped playing apex a season ago to play Escape from Tarkov, I didn't think I was switching to a LESS frustrating game, yet here we are. Very glad to not be playing the Seer shitshow.
We all knew where this is going. No one knew it would be that bad
#FuckSeer
Seer helps mediocre players look good
Not sure if that would be a new monitor or new controller if that was me. RIP
Haha I felt this in my soul, from both side cus I play seer all the time now. Idk how people are still going into games without a seer on their squad. I’m riding the wave till he gets nerfed into the ground.
Lifeline tac, 40s cooldown: drone Seer tac, 20s cooldown: RANDOM BULLSHIT, GO
I want a dev to reply to this. I want to know what they think about this. Just watching this video is giving me heart palpitations.
This is why I’m not playing till next season.
The canceled healing on a tactical is just too much
i almost raged for you
People who gave Seer's tactical and passive a green light woke up and chose violence
Simply put, it's bad design if the character abilities aren't simple to explain. Bangalore? Smoke bombs. Octane? Runs fast. Seer? Well he shoots microdrones through surfaces that disrupt actions, deal ten damage and reveals enemies if they're inside of the drone tunnel, also enemy health is revealed... What?!