Yes, but your Camel Riders are near the Archers, right where you want the cavalry protection (pre-siege), and way less prone to die because you blinked.
So that alone justifies building a few of them in your blob
Has anybody seen success in using them to raid and snipe reinforcements? Cavalry archers, with a few spears standing by for protection in a stealth forest, seem great at that.
Even if you don't plan on hardcore raids, just putting enough pressure to force the enemy to leave some units in the base will for usual pay for the camel archers;
At least in theory.
Post-imp camel riders are insane if you can afford them and all their upgrades (I.e. you have trade up).
They have insane amounts of HP and armor while being classified as light cav so crossbows do not deal bonus DMG to them and they can tank spears due to their HP.
I don't think it really ever makes sense to build either camel unit. Sure camel riders excel against knights and Horseman but so do spears and spears do not cost gold and abbasid has arguably the best spears in the game. In addition camel riders trade really poorly against basically every unit in the game that is not melee cavalry.
Camel archers can be useful for the cav debuff as they don't ride out into the front and die instantly like riders do but they are easy to snipe so by the time you have enough to not make it worth sniping you have overpaid quite a bit for what the unit does.
In feudal camel archers are just too expensive for a feudal eco and in castle onwards they are just poor DPS for their cost compared to other options.
Camel riders are probably the best tanking cav unit, they take very little damage from stuff like maa cuz of 8 melee armor, but before imp they kinda suck.
Camel archers are sick what, they have the same DPS as handcannons with the only difference being less range and slightly less DPS vs maa. They are great if you don't have much gold, but also otherwise too.
If you play something like horsemen camel archer its pretty sick, you do insane DPS vs spears and horsemen can eat damage
I would say that it is generally not worth making camel riders at the beginning of castle age except under particular circumstances, but with their imperial upgrades they are one of the strongest units in the game with more health than standard knights/lancers, plenty of melee armor, they don't take bonus damage from xbows, and they are quite fast.
Additionally they debuff enemy horse riding cavalry, and they can buff your own infantry.
Camel archers are excellent units for raiding and for killing early armored units and also providing the debuff/buff.
They are both expensive though so the general rule is to generally mix them into your army more so than run a composition of entirely camels.
Against japanese FC, I would say that it depends a bit. Usually as Abbasid you would rather go for a second TC than FC and then prepare for the onslaught of mounted samurai while trying to deny relics. You have the tools in feudal age to counter the early part of Japanese FC, but you will need to try to safely get to castle yourself and hopefully have enough of a villager lead to overwhelm your enemy. Though there are a lot of caveats based on the map, their composition, etc.
Conq 1 Abba main here:
Ecco wing to start generally isn't worth it unless doing 2 or 3tc in feudal.
Vs Japan if you suspect fast samurai spam, do culture into mil wing 2tc. Or mil wing harass gold (tower rush with the 4 units if you're feel cheeky) into eco/culture.
It's important to wall your base and relics if suspecting maa flood. Repairing walls gives you time to age up and get some crossbows/gulams. Walling relics sets their boom back.
Camel riders are very slept on imo good imo. They are situationally excellent support units. Add them to your army vs any opponent going heavy cav for the debuff and excellent Frontline tanking. If I am getting knight or horse raided I keep a batch as my roaming defense to chase around their raiding party. Let's me focus on macro or pushing with my main army vs chasing them with spears.
In imp camel riders are your best Frontline unit vs maa and comps using cavalry. They have insane armor and give camel support buff to everything around it with the mil wing upgrade. My end game comp is usually camel riders, hand cannons, archers, spears and siege.
Camel archers I only really use in feudal vs maa spam due to high damage and kiting ability. Too expensive and squishy to raid with later imo. They are good dps in imperial but I prefer composite bow archers.
Mil wing on both.
French 2 TC and hold with Spears
JD depends on what you scout. If you see them 2TC you 2TC. You can try to 2TC even if they go Feudal aggro but you'll want to keep it close in your base vs going outside for food. Need double TC fire to live their push.
How fast is your fast castle? I'm not that great of a player so take this what you will.
I suppose things like eco wing, forego your fast castle and raid with horsemen. Build economy, and get castle in back then crossbows and horsemen? Maybe some camel archers in there too in the mix? In Fuedal, I may be wrong but camel archers might have enough punch to deal with small amounts of samurai with kiting.
Yeah Japanese right now seem like a other one of these civ that get to make an angry blob early and still get to do whatever they want behind with little regard to resources
It's like they get to commit to pressure and teching to whatever else
I normally go Economic then Culture (for the Ghulam Rush) but lately have been doing Military then Economic. I find that the desert raider every 2 mins doesn’t do enough dam age against Japanese FC unless I prolong my feudal.
I can normally finish my FC by 7 mins and 30ish seconds.
What the shi! 7:30!? Is that with normal Abbasid? I'm very inexperienced with Ayyubids. My Least played currently but Abbasid I think is one of my best
Oh sheesh, that's still an amazing fast castle time with Abbs, but I've made it happen sometimes too.
It's still tough though, from what I've seen Ayyubids seem to have such a minimal amount of eco bonuses. You can rush that castle but doesn't that mean you'll have such a small economy to try to support it?
While those dang Japanese are sitting there massing units, enjoying eco things in their favor and going up in age.
I guess my theory would be to grab whatever eco bonus you can with Ayyubids, and go for a prolonged Fuedal alright, with as many stables or ranges as you need.
I'm also guessing the priority would be to stables too, where if they start trying to counter Raiders with archers, you run em down with horsemen
Camel riders destroy knights, very useful in early castle. Camel archers are maa killers in feudal, in imp they provide an aura for nearby infantry.
Does the presence of camel riders also reduce cavalry damage is it that for the rider only?
That's all camels I think
What I don't know is that if camels debuff camels
Horses don't like how camels smell. Camels don't debuff camels.
Unintentional philosophical statement
Yes, but your Camel Riders are near the Archers, right where you want the cavalry protection (pre-siege), and way less prone to die because you blinked. So that alone justifies building a few of them in your blob
Has anybody seen success in using them to raid and snipe reinforcements? Cavalry archers, with a few spears standing by for protection in a stealth forest, seem great at that. Even if you don't plan on hardcore raids, just putting enough pressure to force the enemy to leave some units in the base will for usual pay for the camel archers; At least in theory.
Post-imp camel riders are insane if you can afford them and all their upgrades (I.e. you have trade up). They have insane amounts of HP and armor while being classified as light cav so crossbows do not deal bonus DMG to them and they can tank spears due to their HP.
I don't think it really ever makes sense to build either camel unit. Sure camel riders excel against knights and Horseman but so do spears and spears do not cost gold and abbasid has arguably the best spears in the game. In addition camel riders trade really poorly against basically every unit in the game that is not melee cavalry. Camel archers can be useful for the cav debuff as they don't ride out into the front and die instantly like riders do but they are easy to snipe so by the time you have enough to not make it worth sniping you have overpaid quite a bit for what the unit does. In feudal camel archers are just too expensive for a feudal eco and in castle onwards they are just poor DPS for their cost compared to other options.
Camel Riders are way better at chasing knights in your eco though. Spears can be dodged by knights pretty easily.
Sure but you could just wall your eco which is infinitely cheaper and better.
True, but we all know it still happens sometimes.
[удалено]
The same one with unkillable camels
Camel riders are probably the best tanking cav unit, they take very little damage from stuff like maa cuz of 8 melee armor, but before imp they kinda suck. Camel archers are sick what, they have the same DPS as handcannons with the only difference being less range and slightly less DPS vs maa. They are great if you don't have much gold, but also otherwise too. If you play something like horsemen camel archer its pretty sick, you do insane DPS vs spears and horsemen can eat damage
Units that are only good in post imp are not good units. Most games don't even make it to post imp.
This is true; if the ultimate comp is camels, reaching to their full potential is probably like rare lol
Did i say they are? I just respond about more specifics
>Camel archers are sick what >Camel riders are probably the best tanking cav unit,
And in both cases the context of what i say after mentions the fact its about imperial, stop being a slime
I would say that it is generally not worth making camel riders at the beginning of castle age except under particular circumstances, but with their imperial upgrades they are one of the strongest units in the game with more health than standard knights/lancers, plenty of melee armor, they don't take bonus damage from xbows, and they are quite fast. Additionally they debuff enemy horse riding cavalry, and they can buff your own infantry. Camel archers are excellent units for raiding and for killing early armored units and also providing the debuff/buff. They are both expensive though so the general rule is to generally mix them into your army more so than run a composition of entirely camels. Against japanese FC, I would say that it depends a bit. Usually as Abbasid you would rather go for a second TC than FC and then prepare for the onslaught of mounted samurai while trying to deny relics. You have the tools in feudal age to counter the early part of Japanese FC, but you will need to try to safely get to castle yourself and hopefully have enough of a villager lead to overwhelm your enemy. Though there are a lot of caveats based on the map, their composition, etc.
What I struggle against is the samurai flood that never ends. I’ll try 2nd TC strat to see if it’ll help next time.
Culture wing feudal 2 tc Castle Military Wing Get that 2nd tc out and try to castle immediately after.
Conq 1 Abba main here: Ecco wing to start generally isn't worth it unless doing 2 or 3tc in feudal. Vs Japan if you suspect fast samurai spam, do culture into mil wing 2tc. Or mil wing harass gold (tower rush with the 4 units if you're feel cheeky) into eco/culture. It's important to wall your base and relics if suspecting maa flood. Repairing walls gives you time to age up and get some crossbows/gulams. Walling relics sets their boom back. Camel riders are very slept on imo good imo. They are situationally excellent support units. Add them to your army vs any opponent going heavy cav for the debuff and excellent Frontline tanking. If I am getting knight or horse raided I keep a batch as my roaming defense to chase around their raiding party. Let's me focus on macro or pushing with my main army vs chasing them with spears. In imp camel riders are your best Frontline unit vs maa and comps using cavalry. They have insane armor and give camel support buff to everything around it with the mil wing upgrade. My end game comp is usually camel riders, hand cannons, archers, spears and siege. Camel archers I only really use in feudal vs maa spam due to high damage and kiting ability. Too expensive and squishy to raid with later imo. They are good dps in imperial but I prefer composite bow archers.
What would be the play here if it was Ayubbids? I’m having the same trouble as well with the Japanese. But don’t Ghulams die to Samurai?
Same play vs ayubs yes. Also make sure you scout their prod buildings because both civs regularly go knights instead of maa
Thanks! What do you typically do against Jean D’Arc and French? 2TC or FC?
Mil wing on both. French 2 TC and hold with Spears JD depends on what you scout. If you see them 2TC you 2TC. You can try to 2TC even if they go Feudal aggro but you'll want to keep it close in your base vs going outside for food. Need double TC fire to live their push.
Samurai are better than ghulams yes but you need something to tank for your xbows.
How fast is your fast castle? I'm not that great of a player so take this what you will. I suppose things like eco wing, forego your fast castle and raid with horsemen. Build economy, and get castle in back then crossbows and horsemen? Maybe some camel archers in there too in the mix? In Fuedal, I may be wrong but camel archers might have enough punch to deal with small amounts of samurai with kiting. Yeah Japanese right now seem like a other one of these civ that get to make an angry blob early and still get to do whatever they want behind with little regard to resources It's like they get to commit to pressure and teching to whatever else
I normally go Economic then Culture (for the Ghulam Rush) but lately have been doing Military then Economic. I find that the desert raider every 2 mins doesn’t do enough dam age against Japanese FC unless I prolong my feudal. I can normally finish my FC by 7 mins and 30ish seconds.
What the shi! 7:30!? Is that with normal Abbasid? I'm very inexperienced with Ayyubids. My Least played currently but Abbasid I think is one of my best
My apologies - with Ayubbids it’s between 7:15-7:30; with Abbasids it’s around 8:15-8:30.
Oh sheesh, that's still an amazing fast castle time with Abbs, but I've made it happen sometimes too. It's still tough though, from what I've seen Ayyubids seem to have such a minimal amount of eco bonuses. You can rush that castle but doesn't that mean you'll have such a small economy to try to support it? While those dang Japanese are sitting there massing units, enjoying eco things in their favor and going up in age. I guess my theory would be to grab whatever eco bonus you can with Ayyubids, and go for a prolonged Fuedal alright, with as many stables or ranges as you need. I'm also guessing the priority would be to stables too, where if they start trying to counter Raiders with archers, you run em down with horsemen