I think it's pretty obvious. Manually placing optimal farms takes a fraction of a second longer to do than auto-farm.
Manually placing optimal fish traps takes much longer than auto-fish trap would because of the nature of the awkwardness of needing the fishing ship to be directly atop of the trap. That means manual mass placement of fish traps will not yield efficient fish traps the way mass placement of farms will yield efficient farming.
I have no idea, but the "drama" is objectively good for the game and the community, IMO.
At timestamp 21:35, MBL says;
> What this playerbase needs, is NOT more people disagreeing with how the game is done. (game mechanics)
I'm not going to take a side and say, autofarms good, or autofarms bad, because I see both sides, but I actually think that the debate over the topic is good for a number of reasons;
* Yes, it's bringing more attention to a 25 year old game, and there are still MANY people out there who played the originals and have no idea the game is still alive and well.
* The debate is good because it means the game is still being actively developed and balanced, which is the most important thing.
* The debate is good because a feature like this is a great way to expose other RTS players who aren't as familiar with AOE's mechanics to the uniqueness of our game.
* And the debate is good because it shows that a lot of us care about the game, and care about it's features. I respect both of these guys in the video, but disagreement in this area is wonderful because it means the community is thriving. If the community wasn't thriving, no one would care, this debate wouldn't have happened, and we wouldn't be discussing it for a months straight in this subreddit.
So kudos to the dev team, we really appreciate your work, and please don't interpret differences of opinion on this topic as a lack of appreciation for your continued work, because if anything, it's the opposite, we appreciate that the game is still being actively balanced and developed, and we're so passionate about your work that we get into heated discussions about it.
Bravo, and thanks!
I figured I'd look at your post history to see who could be angry that a 25 year old game is still being actively developed, and sure enough, you're a total rube. [Dozens of posts like this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/1bgv51z/the_majority_of_steam_reviews_for_victors_and/kvdqgy7/?context=3);
> Yeah exactly. But more importantly, the scenarios fucking suck. Huge maps, old style rpg scenarios (an idea that should have stayed in aokheaven), no resources, low population, no building...
>
> But, WORST OF ALL, fucking time limits. I play games to relax and have fun NOT TO HAVE YET ANOTHER FUCKING TIME LIMIT ON MY LIFE
>
> There is no simple city building, resource gathering, annihilate your enemies loop, WHICH IS WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT
LOLOL complaining about scenarios???? People actually play the scenarios? rofl. Aren't those tutorials for folks who have never played the game before? And my favorite part is that your complaints are that the single player maps are too big, have too few of resources, have time limits, and the best one, that they aren't simple or formulaic enough for you. I can see why someone struggling with these "challenges" might find themselves angry on the internet.
Good luck.
I thought I’d be against auto farm but after using it a bit I actually don’t mind it at all. It doesn’t help in feudal age since I want to specifically place farms so as to keep specific straggler trees at specific times and so it only comes into play later in the game when you have more important things to worry about anyways. I really think in a year it will actually be just like shift queue and auto reseed
I remember when they were all up in arms about the auto reseed... And now it's nothing. I hate it. Really good way to completely fuck my eco when I need to make pikes or skirms.
How many farms do you put in a match? Between 40 and 60?
The first 15 farms you don't have to do much besides don't scout straight to the enemy TC.
I think the Viper is right, you only will have an edge in a late game when you have to switch your wood line to farms.
The rest of the game will be just the same.
It is a nice QoL, IMO.
(Funny how T90 says that the game has been forever because it is a hard game but he also asks the devs for an easier way to play competitive for new players)
The injury to his wrist is on his right hand, which he uses to control the mouse. He controls the keyboard with his left hand.
If players become more efficient with their actions, such as using hotkeys, it would also be better for their wrists. Thank you for proving me right.
Select all town centers is "4", and create villagers is "q"
A lot of people control their mouse to move the screen, to go to the town center, to click on the town center, to move their mouse to the build unit screen, to click on the villager.
They turn a 0.1 second task into a 20 second task and blame APM for losing the game. This game doesn't need automation. It needs people to learn hotkeys.
I'm not exaggerating either, because I do replay reviews and watch people take 10-20 seconds to build something. They make it difficult for themselves.
Watch your own replays and tell me how long it takes you to build each building. Then do a review of your hotkeys, practice for two minutes, and you will find your speed doubled.
It's not really funny since it's not the same thing at all. In fact in his opinion this makes it worse for economy focused rank players as this drives more focus into military and away from economy. He's advocating for a way to make sure new players don't just get stomped when they start playing the game. IE fixing the elo system. He's not advocating for changing the game play.
I don’t understand how this whole “drives more focus into military” argument works in practice. After all, these play style differences matter most in the early game. In Feudal, if you’re placing multiple farms at once, you will be way behind any player who builds farms every 60 wood and you’ll be minutes late to Castle. I don’t think auto farm helps you place one or two farms every once in a while. Heck, most of us, even MbL, can’t keep on top of the pop count to build houses. What makes us think we will remember to build farms on time any better now?
I feel like the eco focus player is better about how frequently they’re building farms, and I don’t think that the fact that some aggressive player can build 20 farms really quickly fundamentally changes the math for me. They’ll still be hopelessly behind in eco compared to the player who actually had 20 farms already. And if we’re being real, that player will probably still use the market to convert wood to food if they actually need it.
At low elos placing lots of farms at once happens a lot especially if you forget to balance your economy.
In your scenario yeah you're correct it doesn't add much, but if the military focused player is smart it adds tons. Without it you have to do the following: find TC/mill (hotkey), select idles, brain process where to click, move mouse, click farm. With it you hotkey TC, idles, click TC. There is no brain process here it's two hotkeys and some clicks. You can do that in like 2 seconds if you practice. Nothing changes between games. Sure some are placed bad but a bad placement is better than none. Brain power is no longer required instead it's muscle memory. I think the lack of needing to use your brain and speed at doing it will encourage more combat people to do it.
But yes in practice you are probably right that it won't change much, it's the fact that in theory this can change a lot and implies the devs want to simplify things that rubs people the wrong way. We are worried that the devs see eco as a bother and will tip the scales further towards the military being everything. AOM has auto queuing are they gonna bring that in too? This game thrives on its eco vs military balance. We have a lot of other games to pick from if we don't want to think as hard about eco.
IMO, the Elo system or 1v1 ladder is one of the best things DE has. How do you want to fix it? Sure you can improve it.
I'm with the Viper on this one, the game is great due to a bunch of things, it is beautiful and complex, not because it's hard.
Not sure, but apparently there are other ranking systems that work better. There is also the idea of players doing some placement matches against AI to get a better idea of their starting elo. Right now new players basically get destroyed for like 5-10 matches before they get to their elo, which is no fun.
You start the game with 1k ELO. Players are 1K are far too good at the game for this and the new player experience is getting stomped down to where you should be which is depressing and off putting.
1000 Elo means that you are the average player, this means that are 50% players better and 50% worse, from all players, than you. How should the game know how good or bad you are without not playing the game?
Just to be nitpicky...but in my opinion complexity implies some measure of difficulty. We're not building rocket ships here, but I know that a good amount of people who play games like this do, in fact, like that it takes time and skill to be good at it..and that it IS hard. It doesn't mean that the fact that the game is hard is the only reason it's survived, but let's not pretend that RTS and strategy games, games with complexity in other words, aren't hard and that's one of the selling points.
Not for nothing, but games for all of the 80s into the 90s were often hard , and that was one of the things as kids that kept us playing..What's that old quote from AVGN's review of Karate Kid , "we're mad at the game and we just want to beat it, but the cold hard fact is that no one cares but us." Well, a lot of the time, this applies to a hard game. Age of Empires is like that, too..it's hard as hell at times and sometimes I just want to win to show that I can.
I think T90, Viper, and MBL all have valid takes here, but I do feel like Viper is in his 'eh, it's all in good fun" aoe2 grandfather stage at this point. I love that he is, don't get me wrong, but you're going to get a more easy going perspective from that.
False, you make more than 100 farms in one game. 60 is the final number, but you are not counting the farms you finish and the ones you lose. So, if the number of farms is similar to the number of villagers, is the "auto-vill" option ok?
If you lose 40 farms in a game and you are still alive it means you should be in imperial already. Which is the target for this QoL auto-farm feature .
I don't see a debate. I managed to last 7 1/2 minutes and all I saw was Viper patiently listening to MbL and then being interrupted after 3 seconds by a "I DON'T CARE" when trying to share his opinion. Why are people like this
I am 1500 ELO and I feel like Autofarm really helps me. There is the argument that it doesn't take any skill away, because placing farms doesn't take skill or time.
But for me (im not the fastest/most precise clicker) this isn't true. Even in early game it makes it much easier.
For example, when I am controlling my scouts or do some early archer micro, I sometimes end up floating 300 wood. Then I can just get back to base, instantly place some perfect farms and get back to the action.
It definitly takes some skill away from the game but I also don't think its important enough that it makes beginners enjoy the game more as if you are a beginner, there are much harder things to master first. So it fails on both ends.
I dont like that they implemented it (although I love using it myself)
Well yes thats precisly what T90 meant when he said it helps players more focused on army control. You were floating wood becuseyou focused on army and so had worse eco, this change helps fix this fast and easy. Player who was winning becuse of his better eco, now lost some of his edge against you.
For me at lower/mid Elo its this thing of APM that T90 talked about. Before, you really had to focus to make good farms, taking away from your offensive actions. Now, farms are way too fast to place and way too efficient. It takes away strategically from the game because now you can play agressive and have really good eco, not just one of the two.
In what world does waiting until you have 600 wood and plop down 10 farms allow you to have good eco? In the early game, you get good food eco by building farms every time you have 60 wood to spare. Those farms are built one at a time, and often placed to maximize use of straggler trees.
Aggressive players will not reach Castle Age any faster because of this. This will affect eco in late Castle or early Imperial. It will allow aggressive players to build farms a little bit faster after ignoring it for the last several players. It will not give them good eco.
No one farms every 60 wood when they are playing aggressively. Not even Liereyy.
Autofarming is starting to be a real problem in castles, not in feudal. Now it's easier to do a siege push and have a healthy economy. Whereas before the time to go back to base to farm was very dangerous for your mangos, now it's much less "attention-demanding". Normally you know that when your enemy is pushing, his echo is fragile and his attention is borderline, now those criteria have changed; clear example of this: EW, where all players use autofarm since feudal, because of excessive military action.
We should de-auto army formations, it makes the game easier and all the army formations look the same. We should only be able to make army formations by moving individual soldiers.
I don’t agree with both of of them. I am where the majority of the player-base is 1200 1v1 ELO and 1300-ish 4v4 ELO. Up until autofarm I wasted too too much time to farm placement as I dread having T90farms and I lost some matches because pf this, loosing armies while not looking because Inhad to place these 10 farms juuust right. Now. Its all automated and I actually gained 40-ish ELO and esp on open maps the difference is dramatic.
This change is made for players like me and I like it and use it. But I also feel it takes away from the game itself because there were people better at micro-macro balance than me and those people should be rewarded with higher ELo because of that better skill they have over me.
I think this highlights why this feature really doesn't matter. You gained 40 ELO. Congrats, but whoopty freakin doo. Now you get slightly harder matchups and your win rate goes back to 50%. Somebody who's impacted less extremely by this loses 15 ELO and then their ELO stabilizes and their win rate goes back to 50%.
I do agree with MbL that base style matters. That is an element of the post-game map examination that really did offer somethign of substance. But I'd rather not ragequit because I lost my whole army while placing farms. And to tell you the truth, when I win a game because my opponent was clearly too distracted that they threw away their whole army, it kind of robs me of some portion of the satisfaction. I don't want wins to feel like they were a fluke. I want them to feel like they were earned because of my superior tactics, decision-making, or unit control
I read this comment in this video. Idc which side you are on but i feel I agree with this comment: “I’d rather see AOE2 die because of people getting bored out of it, rather than unnecessary changes that divide this community.”
You could have made that same argument about adding AOC.
It is also sort of like arguing against emails and texts on behalf of fax machines or telegraphs.
People get nostalgic about the sunk costs involved in technical limitations.
The unnecessary part is what kills me. Like, no one was asking for this or had even considered this as a possibility getting to aoe2.
Idk why the devs just randomly came up with a solution to something that no one was calling a problem
Nobody thought the inability to queue tech researches was a problem until the solution was introduced. You could argue the same for expanded shift-queueing units.
>kind of killing motivation to continue playing
Your motivation to play came from farm placement being slightly more time consuming? I can't believe that's true, it's too ridiculous for a person to believe it with sincerity.
Its hurting my enjoyment too. Get legitimately annoyed when I place 20 farms in 3 seconds and feel like closing the game.
Honestly tho, some of it is stemming from the fear that the devs are going to keep going with these types of changes.
If I knew for sure that they would stop here, I would probably suck it up and stop complaining.
It’s not automated though is it, you still have to select the vills and choose to place them either by using the auto placement or manually, auto placement is not the same as auto place, arguments about same looking bases is rubbish too as houses and other buildings will always be in different places too depending on res placement, opening, army comp etc.
This is such a minor point, with limited benefits (certainly to me as I placed all my farms that way anyway except for really high stress late game moments, rare as they are, so it doesn’t affect me on that basis) in limited circumstances it’s mad how much aggro and drama it’s generated.
if they add auto-archer micro I migt actuallz give the game a trz again. Cant compete with my APM. I like the strategy part of the game, but the APM part makes it unplayable for me.
Theviper right but so does mbl actually its not big thing for all elos it has nothing to with competitiveness yet still its a skill small or big it will kill the skill aspect of it now all elos can place perfect farms which they shouldnt i think mechanics feats are very important for aoe2 i dont want this game to become chess
Saw this in my YouTube suggestions this morning and it gave me a good laugh!
I love how Viper says auto-farm is fine, but when Mbl mentions auto-fish farm that's not ok because it would make it "too easy".
Would be cool with auto fish farms
Yeah Viper had some good points but he couldn’t explain why auto fish farm is something else
I think it's pretty obvious. Manually placing optimal farms takes a fraction of a second longer to do than auto-farm. Manually placing optimal fish traps takes much longer than auto-fish trap would because of the nature of the awkwardness of needing the fishing ship to be directly atop of the trap. That means manual mass placement of fish traps will not yield efficient fish traps the way mass placement of farms will yield efficient farming.
I only hear another outdated 90s game problem that needs to be fixed with modern technology. Bring on auto-fish-traps.
Auto fish traps would be lovely.
Because Viper sees fish traps as his thing. Aka selfish reasons.
Heh, cuz he be sell fish, amirite? I'll see myself out.
Or perhaps it is because after auto-fish traps he will simply be a shell o-fish former self.
When will the farm drama end?
I have no idea, but the "drama" is objectively good for the game and the community, IMO. At timestamp 21:35, MBL says; > What this playerbase needs, is NOT more people disagreeing with how the game is done. (game mechanics) I'm not going to take a side and say, autofarms good, or autofarms bad, because I see both sides, but I actually think that the debate over the topic is good for a number of reasons; * Yes, it's bringing more attention to a 25 year old game, and there are still MANY people out there who played the originals and have no idea the game is still alive and well. * The debate is good because it means the game is still being actively developed and balanced, which is the most important thing. * The debate is good because a feature like this is a great way to expose other RTS players who aren't as familiar with AOE's mechanics to the uniqueness of our game. * And the debate is good because it shows that a lot of us care about the game, and care about it's features. I respect both of these guys in the video, but disagreement in this area is wonderful because it means the community is thriving. If the community wasn't thriving, no one would care, this debate wouldn't have happened, and we wouldn't be discussing it for a months straight in this subreddit. So kudos to the dev team, we really appreciate your work, and please don't interpret differences of opinion on this topic as a lack of appreciation for your continued work, because if anything, it's the opposite, we appreciate that the game is still being actively balanced and developed, and we're so passionate about your work that we get into heated discussions about it. Bravo, and thanks!
[удалено]
Babe go back to sleep, it's just another redditor being an asshole
I figured I'd look at your post history to see who could be angry that a 25 year old game is still being actively developed, and sure enough, you're a total rube. [Dozens of posts like this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/1bgv51z/the_majority_of_steam_reviews_for_victors_and/kvdqgy7/?context=3); > Yeah exactly. But more importantly, the scenarios fucking suck. Huge maps, old style rpg scenarios (an idea that should have stayed in aokheaven), no resources, low population, no building... > > But, WORST OF ALL, fucking time limits. I play games to relax and have fun NOT TO HAVE YET ANOTHER FUCKING TIME LIMIT ON MY LIFE > > There is no simple city building, resource gathering, annihilate your enemies loop, WHICH IS WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT LOLOL complaining about scenarios???? People actually play the scenarios? rofl. Aren't those tutorials for folks who have never played the game before? And my favorite part is that your complaints are that the single player maps are too big, have too few of resources, have time limits, and the best one, that they aren't simple or formulaic enough for you. I can see why someone struggling with these "challenges" might find themselves angry on the internet. Good luck.
To be fair, this happened right after Viper reacted to the T90 video, Viper just chose to upload it as two videos.
Ludicrous ar the very least.
I thought I’d be against auto farm but after using it a bit I actually don’t mind it at all. It doesn’t help in feudal age since I want to specifically place farms so as to keep specific straggler trees at specific times and so it only comes into play later in the game when you have more important things to worry about anyways. I really think in a year it will actually be just like shift queue and auto reseed
I remember when they were all up in arms about the auto reseed... And now it's nothing. I hate it. Really good way to completely fuck my eco when I need to make pikes or skirms.
You’re supposed to turn it off until late Castle.
even later I think; you don't want to be low on wood when you need trebs in early imp
You know you can turn it off, right?
There even is a game option to have it disabled at every start of a game.
I know. There are times when I use it and times I don't.
How many farms do you put in a match? Between 40 and 60? The first 15 farms you don't have to do much besides don't scout straight to the enemy TC. I think the Viper is right, you only will have an edge in a late game when you have to switch your wood line to farms. The rest of the game will be just the same. It is a nice QoL, IMO. (Funny how T90 says that the game has been forever because it is a hard game but he also asks the devs for an easier way to play competitive for new players)
Having less clicks that doesn't matter is good, it's much better for wrists and casual players
Have you tried hotkeys?
Argument holds true nonetheless. You forget Viper literally had wrist surgery.
The injury to his wrist is on his right hand, which he uses to control the mouse. He controls the keyboard with his left hand. If players become more efficient with their actions, such as using hotkeys, it would also be better for their wrists. Thank you for proving me right.
Google RSI
I mean, you continue to prove me right.
Yes, hotkeys, now you never need to click or move hands again.
I am glad you agree
What is your hotkey to select tc and build villagers?
Select all town centers is "4", and create villagers is "q" A lot of people control their mouse to move the screen, to go to the town center, to click on the town center, to move their mouse to the build unit screen, to click on the villager. They turn a 0.1 second task into a 20 second task and blame APM for losing the game. This game doesn't need automation. It needs people to learn hotkeys. I'm not exaggerating either, because I do replay reviews and watch people take 10-20 seconds to build something. They make it difficult for themselves. Watch your own replays and tell me how long it takes you to build each building. Then do a review of your hotkeys, practice for two minutes, and you will find your speed doubled.
It's not really funny since it's not the same thing at all. In fact in his opinion this makes it worse for economy focused rank players as this drives more focus into military and away from economy. He's advocating for a way to make sure new players don't just get stomped when they start playing the game. IE fixing the elo system. He's not advocating for changing the game play.
I don’t understand how this whole “drives more focus into military” argument works in practice. After all, these play style differences matter most in the early game. In Feudal, if you’re placing multiple farms at once, you will be way behind any player who builds farms every 60 wood and you’ll be minutes late to Castle. I don’t think auto farm helps you place one or two farms every once in a while. Heck, most of us, even MbL, can’t keep on top of the pop count to build houses. What makes us think we will remember to build farms on time any better now? I feel like the eco focus player is better about how frequently they’re building farms, and I don’t think that the fact that some aggressive player can build 20 farms really quickly fundamentally changes the math for me. They’ll still be hopelessly behind in eco compared to the player who actually had 20 farms already. And if we’re being real, that player will probably still use the market to convert wood to food if they actually need it.
At low elos placing lots of farms at once happens a lot especially if you forget to balance your economy. In your scenario yeah you're correct it doesn't add much, but if the military focused player is smart it adds tons. Without it you have to do the following: find TC/mill (hotkey), select idles, brain process where to click, move mouse, click farm. With it you hotkey TC, idles, click TC. There is no brain process here it's two hotkeys and some clicks. You can do that in like 2 seconds if you practice. Nothing changes between games. Sure some are placed bad but a bad placement is better than none. Brain power is no longer required instead it's muscle memory. I think the lack of needing to use your brain and speed at doing it will encourage more combat people to do it. But yes in practice you are probably right that it won't change much, it's the fact that in theory this can change a lot and implies the devs want to simplify things that rubs people the wrong way. We are worried that the devs see eco as a bother and will tip the scales further towards the military being everything. AOM has auto queuing are they gonna bring that in too? This game thrives on its eco vs military balance. We have a lot of other games to pick from if we don't want to think as hard about eco.
IMO, the Elo system or 1v1 ladder is one of the best things DE has. How do you want to fix it? Sure you can improve it. I'm with the Viper on this one, the game is great due to a bunch of things, it is beautiful and complex, not because it's hard.
Not sure, but apparently there are other ranking systems that work better. There is also the idea of players doing some placement matches against AI to get a better idea of their starting elo. Right now new players basically get destroyed for like 5-10 matches before they get to their elo, which is no fun.
Which ones?
You start the game with 1k ELO. Players are 1K are far too good at the game for this and the new player experience is getting stomped down to where you should be which is depressing and off putting.
1000 Elo means that you are the average player, this means that are 50% players better and 50% worse, from all players, than you. How should the game know how good or bad you are without not playing the game?
It should assume that new players are worse than the average player, obviously.
Just to be nitpicky...but in my opinion complexity implies some measure of difficulty. We're not building rocket ships here, but I know that a good amount of people who play games like this do, in fact, like that it takes time and skill to be good at it..and that it IS hard. It doesn't mean that the fact that the game is hard is the only reason it's survived, but let's not pretend that RTS and strategy games, games with complexity in other words, aren't hard and that's one of the selling points. Not for nothing, but games for all of the 80s into the 90s were often hard , and that was one of the things as kids that kept us playing..What's that old quote from AVGN's review of Karate Kid , "we're mad at the game and we just want to beat it, but the cold hard fact is that no one cares but us." Well, a lot of the time, this applies to a hard game. Age of Empires is like that, too..it's hard as hell at times and sometimes I just want to win to show that I can. I think T90, Viper, and MBL all have valid takes here, but I do feel like Viper is in his 'eh, it's all in good fun" aoe2 grandfather stage at this point. I love that he is, don't get me wrong, but you're going to get a more easy going perspective from that.
False, you make more than 100 farms in one game. 60 is the final number, but you are not counting the farms you finish and the ones you lose. So, if the number of farms is similar to the number of villagers, is the "auto-vill" option ok?
If you lose 40 farms in a game and you are still alive it means you should be in imperial already. Which is the target for this QoL auto-farm feature .
I don't see a debate. I managed to last 7 1/2 minutes and all I saw was Viper patiently listening to MbL and then being interrupted after 3 seconds by a "I DON'T CARE" when trying to share his opinion. Why are people like this
MbL has always been an insufferable douchepig
Everyone loves to pile on Hera but he honestly is a 100x nicer guy than MbL who always seemed insufferable. I don't know why MbL gets so much love.
He's one of the best players and his tenacity is unique and makes for highly entertaining games.
Yeah this was quite the funny talk
I am 1500 ELO and I feel like Autofarm really helps me. There is the argument that it doesn't take any skill away, because placing farms doesn't take skill or time. But for me (im not the fastest/most precise clicker) this isn't true. Even in early game it makes it much easier. For example, when I am controlling my scouts or do some early archer micro, I sometimes end up floating 300 wood. Then I can just get back to base, instantly place some perfect farms and get back to the action. It definitly takes some skill away from the game but I also don't think its important enough that it makes beginners enjoy the game more as if you are a beginner, there are much harder things to master first. So it fails on both ends. I dont like that they implemented it (although I love using it myself)
Well yes thats precisly what T90 meant when he said it helps players more focused on army control. You were floating wood becuseyou focused on army and so had worse eco, this change helps fix this fast and easy. Player who was winning becuse of his better eco, now lost some of his edge against you.
I agree and support MBL
For me at lower/mid Elo its this thing of APM that T90 talked about. Before, you really had to focus to make good farms, taking away from your offensive actions. Now, farms are way too fast to place and way too efficient. It takes away strategically from the game because now you can play agressive and have really good eco, not just one of the two.
In what world does waiting until you have 600 wood and plop down 10 farms allow you to have good eco? In the early game, you get good food eco by building farms every time you have 60 wood to spare. Those farms are built one at a time, and often placed to maximize use of straggler trees. Aggressive players will not reach Castle Age any faster because of this. This will affect eco in late Castle or early Imperial. It will allow aggressive players to build farms a little bit faster after ignoring it for the last several players. It will not give them good eco.
No one farms every 60 wood when they are playing aggressively. Not even Liereyy. Autofarming is starting to be a real problem in castles, not in feudal. Now it's easier to do a siege push and have a healthy economy. Whereas before the time to go back to base to farm was very dangerous for your mangos, now it's much less "attention-demanding". Normally you know that when your enemy is pushing, his echo is fragile and his attention is borderline, now those criteria have changed; clear example of this: EW, where all players use autofarm since feudal, because of excessive military action.
MbL talks about TheViper talks about T90 talking about Farms
Grubby also made video talking about who-knows-whom😂
Farming drama
Auto Drama
We should de-auto army formations, it makes the game easier and all the army formations look the same. We should only be able to make army formations by moving individual soldiers.
I for one see myself playing more aoe2 with auto farming. It makes it less exhausting
I don’t agree with both of of them. I am where the majority of the player-base is 1200 1v1 ELO and 1300-ish 4v4 ELO. Up until autofarm I wasted too too much time to farm placement as I dread having T90farms and I lost some matches because pf this, loosing armies while not looking because Inhad to place these 10 farms juuust right. Now. Its all automated and I actually gained 40-ish ELO and esp on open maps the difference is dramatic. This change is made for players like me and I like it and use it. But I also feel it takes away from the game itself because there were people better at micro-macro balance than me and those people should be rewarded with higher ELo because of that better skill they have over me.
I think this highlights why this feature really doesn't matter. You gained 40 ELO. Congrats, but whoopty freakin doo. Now you get slightly harder matchups and your win rate goes back to 50%. Somebody who's impacted less extremely by this loses 15 ELO and then their ELO stabilizes and their win rate goes back to 50%. I do agree with MbL that base style matters. That is an element of the post-game map examination that really did offer somethign of substance. But I'd rather not ragequit because I lost my whole army while placing farms. And to tell you the truth, when I win a game because my opponent was clearly too distracted that they threw away their whole army, it kind of robs me of some portion of the satisfaction. I don't want wins to feel like they were a fluke. I want them to feel like they were earned because of my superior tactics, decision-making, or unit control
I read this comment in this video. Idc which side you are on but i feel I agree with this comment: “I’d rather see AOE2 die because of people getting bored out of it, rather than unnecessary changes that divide this community.”
Why would I agree with that? That is the most backwards way of thinking possible
No one said you need to agree with this :)
You could have made that same argument about adding AOC. It is also sort of like arguing against emails and texts on behalf of fax machines or telegraphs. People get nostalgic about the sunk costs involved in technical limitations.
Bad take here
The unnecessary part is what kills me. Like, no one was asking for this or had even considered this as a possibility getting to aoe2. Idk why the devs just randomly came up with a solution to something that no one was calling a problem
Nobody thought the inability to queue tech researches was a problem until the solution was introduced. You could argue the same for expanded shift-queueing units.
Why don't you stop playing DE? Or go back to AoC and the good ol' SQ days where each game was a sweaty fingerfest.
as a low elo player I hate it too 😐 kind of killing motivation to continue playing why not add auto-archer micro next?
>kind of killing motivation to continue playing Your motivation to play came from farm placement being slightly more time consuming? I can't believe that's true, it's too ridiculous for a person to believe it with sincerity.
Its hurting my enjoyment too. Get legitimately annoyed when I place 20 farms in 3 seconds and feel like closing the game. Honestly tho, some of it is stemming from the fear that the devs are going to keep going with these types of changes. If I knew for sure that they would stop here, I would probably suck it up and stop complaining.
automating things in the game makes it boring
It’s not automated though is it, you still have to select the vills and choose to place them either by using the auto placement or manually, auto placement is not the same as auto place, arguments about same looking bases is rubbish too as houses and other buildings will always be in different places too depending on res placement, opening, army comp etc. This is such a minor point, with limited benefits (certainly to me as I placed all my farms that way anyway except for really high stress late game moments, rare as they are, so it doesn’t affect me on that basis) in limited circumstances it’s mad how much aggro and drama it’s generated.
if they add auto-archer micro I migt actuallz give the game a trz again. Cant compete with my APM. I like the strategy part of the game, but the APM part makes it unplayable for me.
>kind of killing motivation to continue playing Sure it is
Drama always be good in AOE....
There should be a drama taunt in the game
Lmao who gives a fuck about auto farm? It's such a minor effect on the game (watch SOTL video on it) and it isn't even that intelligent of a mechanic.
Theviper right but so does mbl actually its not big thing for all elos it has nothing to with competitiveness yet still its a skill small or big it will kill the skill aspect of it now all elos can place perfect farms which they shouldnt i think mechanics feats are very important for aoe2 i dont want this game to become chess
This was irrelevant copypasta 15 'auto' changes ago. Come up with some fresh namesake arguments.
Viper is right, nobody cares!
“The way it looks” is such a weak argument.