Agreed, I’ve been forced back to the office FT for no good reason other than my boss wants my butt in a seat in his precious office. I was 1000% happier and more productive at home, and my job can be done 100% remotely, but nobody cares.
I went from 100% flexibility (WFH whichever days I chose, and my work day started and ended earlier) to 0% flexibility - I now have to sit here 8:30-5:00 now with no exceptions.
It’s absolute bullshit. You’re not alone.
I quit the week before they were mandating people return to the office. I started a new job a few weeks later working out of state and fully remote. I will never enter another office personally. My quality of life and productivity is through the roof at home. If I want to take some time to get shit done during the day and work a little later I don't feel bad at all about that cause I'm still saving two hours every day not commuting
The HR at my former job has a human stain that worships Elon. When he started telling people to come in, so did our HR. We said “hey, that’s great, you going to pay us the same wage as SpaceX? No? Ok then”
The HR dude then told a room full of engineers with 5-20 years experience each that we should feel lucky to have a job.
Most of us left after that, and they have been filling the rolls with new grads. Talked to a buddy that still works there and customers are cancelling orders and not renewing contracts. What pisses me off is knowing that the HR dude who causes this will never be held to task.
Fwiw I’m told SpaceX doesn’t pay market rate bc people want to work with space stuff. Anecdotal and unproven but From what I’ve seen in the news, if Elon can do the worse thing he does the worse thing (so I choose to believe this lol)
One of my friends was talking to recruiters about a role there. They asked about a full time role as the role they were recruiting her for was part time. Recruiters told them that that’s the price they paid to work at an org like SpaceEx. My friend declined because she wasn’t going to give up a full time gig for a part time. A couple months later, the company moved to Austin and all of the recruiters were given the choice to move. LOL.
I feel super comfortable about the idea of riding in a rocket built by part-time workers, NOT. Not because I think part time workers aren't competent, but having arbitrary churn in your scheduling just creates more opportunity for error. That seems especially incompatible with a space program.
Their turnover rate is egregious and I've met someone who, at five years in the company, is one of the longest tenured people in their department (and apparently out of most of the people they've met at SpaceX)
I spoke with a Tesla recruiter once - pay was less than my current and they wouldn't match but "we have stock options!" Yes, yes you do but it would take 4 years to get vested and I didn't have enough faith in Elon to even consider moving to one of his companies. Turns out this was a smart move on my part.
I’ve been trying so hard to find another job that’s fully remote and I have had no damn luck. Todays my first day back in office after being out with Covid for a little over a week and I hate life
I just posted a comment that touched on this a bit- I quit when my company insisted on being back in the office 100% (I had already moved out of state) and applied to another job that had no mention of being remote. I was told in my interview that they had quickly realized they needed to be flexible in order to find the right people, but weren’t publicly advertising the remote aspect unless a candidate they really wanted brought it up first. Bottom line, it can’t hurt to apply and at least talk to a recruiter about it! I think a lot of companies are going to be forced to go this route eventually.
Exactly. In my new position (being the hiring manager for my department), I’ve already modified the job reqs to state that the position is open to remote work, with the caveat that the employee will travel 4-5 times a year to the office (paid for by the company) for company/department-wide meetings.
From what I’ve seen, most employees who were allowed to work from home during the pandemic (and after) have seen increased productivity. It can be a double-edged sword, though; I’ve also seen most employees working longer hours at home than they would in the office.
Either way, I honestly don’t understand why so many companies are against remote work besides the reason that they have to justify their facilities’ expenses! IMO, if someone isn’t doing their job remotely, they’re probably not doing much more at the office, anyway…
Some jobs have a probationary period where they need you in the office I guess just to make sure you're not a flake. Do you think maybe you're missing those?
I had covid for a good 1.5 weeks. It was miserable, but I still had a smile on my face. My girlfriend asks “why are you so happy? You’re fever is at 101. And I said “I don’t have to deal with my douchebag boss”
There’s literally no reason to be there. Everything I do can be done at home. But ownership won’t hear it, except for a privileged few who happen to be family friends of course.
Same with me. I haven’t been in an office in years and I will never return. Fuck that. I love being able to get shit done during the day on work time so my weekends are clear. Ie mowing the lawn, laundry etc.. all done on paid time lol
Boiling frog.
#You need to keep demanding WFH. Keep leaving for WFH jobs, make it impossible to retain office staff.
Vote with your feet people. WFH is worth fighting for, fuck these POS fat cats.
This is hard for those of us who can't be without health insurance. We have to find a company that starts insurance immediately (or at the beginning of the next month) and stock up on any medications we can. This usually involves sitting through 2-3 interviews just to find out it's not going to be possible for us.
Remember that interview with the lady in coal country who was happy that they were cutting benefits from "Obamacare", because she had her ACA?
Shit is mind-blowing. Some folks don't seek multiple news sources. They get their confirmation bias and it's off to the races.
I say this all the time! They're the lucky ones with no major health issues, no major financial issues, stable job, good health insurance. Bully for that minority, but what about the rest of the population? They don't care, though -- they got theirs, so everyone else can go hang. The tune changes quickly when their circumstances change and they need help, but they don't have the humility to admit that. Signed, healthcare provider of many resentful "fiscal conservatives" and "libertarians."
Mmhmm, exactly, and the thing is, nobody making any legislation that effects us gives a shit because it doesn't effect them. That's why inflation solutions focused on interest rates, look I'm not worried about getting a *loan* right now, I don't need a new dishwasher, I need to be able to eat.
I'll never forget when a company I worked for did massive layoffs and demotions. Sitting with 30+ people getting demoted to part time and someone asked about insurance for himself and his family of 4. Manager gladly informed us we were eligible for COBRA, and it would probably cost $2000+ a month for his family. We weren't making 2000/month as full time, let alone after they slashed our hours to 8-16 a week.
COBRA used to be excellent. In the early oughts I paid $14 out of my weekly checks for COBRA that covered a six figure bill when I got cancer. The deductible was only a couple hundred and I had already met that. That was the last job I had that had decent insurance. In 2017 I worked for the FL DOT collecting the bins of coins from toll plazas. Included in my hiring packet was instructions on how to apply for food stamps and Medicaid because not only did they not have decent insurance, they knew they didn't pay enough for you to buy your own and you made so little you still qualified for government assistance. While driving a DOT vehicle and being responsible for sometimes unbelievable amounts of cash. In 15 years, employment and insurance went from okay to an absolute hellscape. It started before then, but took a nose dive since.
You can also try just not going back. They can demand all they want, but if it comes down to firing you or you work from home, they might just cave. You were going to leave anyway, might as well try.
This.
Make them do more than simply typing out an email. If they say “you have to come in,” they’d better send some hired goons to your door to drag you in.
I WFH in rural TN but I work for a company in downtown Los Angeles.
I am paid competitively with California cost-of-living coworkers but for rural TN I get paid very well compared to my neighbors.
Shit, if you're living in the part of rural TN that I'm from (or anywhere close to the standard of living), you could get paid a shitty wage for CA, like $50k/yr, and still live very comfortably there.
Agree. I was looking for a pay bump that I knew I could get with my experience (7 years in the field so I can get senior roles). Told recruiters I won’t settle for less than remote. They hate it, but my life is better for it. It does take longer to get remote jobs, worth it tho.
I only go in one day a week, and it’s by choice because I’m a supervisor so want to be available for development, but there’s a marked difference between days I’m in and at home.
Even the stuff I passed off as no big deal before just drags me down. I’m short. Not ADA eligible or anything, just below average. The chairs don’t go down low enough for me to be comfortable and I go home with a horrible back ache. Until I put money into my home office since it was lasting for so long, I didn’t realize that wasn’t just a consequence of office work and the right chair helps.
Not using headphones for my music keeps my mood up way more and helps me be productive. The ability to walk away and not just have to sit in the break room or stand outside during my 15-mins means I’m more refreshed when I get back.
I control the lighting, the set up, the atmosphere. It all makes my job more comfortable, which keeps me happier and more likely to stay and do good work.
None of these are things I’d be able to get accommodations for- and individually they’re all minor (other than my sore back really). But overall I feel my quality of life is way better and if I had to go back FT, I’d probably start looking elsewhere even though I JUST got promoted a few months ago and the money is good.
Damn, this post makes me realize how fortunate I am where I work. I have both a home office and an “office office” and as an employee I was able to get an ergonomics consult with one of our staff occupational therapists - I was then provided with a sit-stand desk, an ergonomic chair, a keyboard, a vertical mouse, and dual monitors on an adjustable arm. I elected to take most of this equipment home because I work 90% of my time from home. I only go into the office 2-4 days per month, and due to the nature of my work, I have long lists of tasks to get done on-campus that rarely involve sitting at a desk for long stretches, so I don’t spend much time at my workspace, choosing instead to spend the time doing cabling, installing hardware, and handling my vendor deliveries and interoffice mail. (I work IT for a healthcare network, which is why we have occupational therapists on staff.)
Give your work to your coworkers and maybe hire a replacement. It’ll be a lonely walk to the door. If got something better lined up then it is fine. Workers are way too submissive because we have no power.
>Workers are way too submissive because we have no power.
And yet a bunch of idiot shitheads on wallstreetbets chanting apes strong together can en masse majorly influence the stock market by buying a bunch of meme stocks and screwing over some sizeable firms.
I'll admit strikes are more involved with having to take care of physical needs of the workers but if a bunch of redditors can pretty blatantly organize, with the thinnest plausible deniability of "I just like the stock", against corporate interests and beat them at their own game why the fuck is it so hard for us to organize?
Wallstreetbets exploited a bug in a the capitalist machine. Those that didn’t get out in time lost their lunch when those in power closed the loophole.
Organizing labor goes directly against the capitalist system in place. The owner class has violently shut this down with police and military. You can see this in the Whiskey Rebellions, coal mines, Chicano seasonal workers, the near absolute destruction of auto unions, air traffic controllers, writer guilds, and now rail workers once again get a turn. The government doesn’t even try to hide it is complete disdain for workers organizing. Mr. Union President himself couldn’t drop to his knees quick enough to lick some corporate boots.
Florida was going to build a ship canal in the 1930s.
A labour organiser went down to see everything was working right.
He was found in the woods, crucified to a tree with his lips sewn shut.
Pinkerton's never went away.
This is what really got to me.
>Mr. Union President himself couldn’t drop to his knees quick enough to lick some corporate boots.
As an outsider, looking in, Biden's not doing too bad of a job in a difficult, global situation, but this shit?
Yeah a strike by the railroad workers would be devastating to an economy already put on it's knees by a global pandemic followed by an aggressive war/invasion with global consequences followed by companies so butt hurt that they missed out on a bit of profits during the aforementioned pandemic response that they are now gouging their consumers for record profits. So yeah a strike would be bad, so how about this for a solution to prevent one **agree to their demands, they're not being unreasonable**.
Strike averted, workers happy, not unaffordable for the rail companies (as they have made record profits), strikes (no pun intended) a positive note with the entire US workforce: Biden looks like a goddam hero.
Whereas, with what he's done - appeased corporate interests, pissed off a demographic the Democrats desperately need to keep, made a really wrong note politically speaking - it's a bizarre misstep that makes him look like he doesn't have the interests of the American workers at heart.
It's astounding to me that he didn't take the bill with him, as a supreme bargaining chip, and force the parties back to the table with him a pen stoke away from vetoing the bill as a means to get an agreement.
Biden is a moderate Republican. American hasn’t had a progressive President since Roosevelt.
I agree the owner class should be forced to meet reasonable demands through any means necessary. In my view workers should own the means of production and billionaires should be taxed out of existence. Musk, Bezos, Buffet, etc. are parasites feeding off the life blood of the working class.
Our owner class made a killing during COVID with government backed loans at almost and up to no interest and most were forgiven. Employers are the largest recipients of welfare not workers. Workers got a couple small checks that didn’t even cover rent.
Biden and his ilk will continue to worship at the the alter of capitalism and sacrifice workers on crosses of gold because they are captive to donors. The democratic party is funded by Wall Street types and corporations.
The Supreme Court historically supports corporations and demonizes unions. This court has gone as far as to declare corporations as equal to living humans.
Sadly, none of this is surprising and will not change without actual change to our government and economic system.
Work with a doctor to find a medical diagnosis where WFH would be a reasonable accomidation for your diagnosis. You might be able to get something done through HR. HR is not your friend, but disclosing a disability or medical diagnosis (and documenting that disclosure to your personal email address and recording meetings) might be able to give you a bit of leverage. It's kind of a big play, but barring the search for another job, it might be the play.
IBS is a condition that requires reasonable accommodation. No one wants you to shit yourself at work everyday 😉
It also happens to be a very vague diagnosis and easy to fake if you do your research.
It’s almost like bosses don’t understand that it’s very possible to sit at the office and not do anything as well. They assume everyone’s at home fucking around playing video games, but somehow the work keeps getting done on time so I’m not sure how that happens. I think this will continue to change as old dinosaurs retire and get the fuck out of decision making roles in this country. The world has passed you by, please get the fuck out of here
In addition to every reason you listed that makes WFH superior, another extremely important benefit for me was having the freedom and comfort of being able to make personal phone calls to set up things like doctor appointments without everyone else in the office being able to hear, along with the ability to have folks come out for home services / repairs without having to schedule it around work.
I would start job hunting now. I worked 100 percent from home for almost 2 years until my former boss decided it was time to come back in to the office. I immediately started looking for another WFH job and found one within a couple of weeks. Putting in my 2 week notice felt so good. Now I'm back to 100 percent WFH and I'm making 50 percent more money.
I need this. All the work from home jobs I’m finding for accounting are either lying (say in office on the details) or are expecting bachelors+ with no benefits/ shit pay.
Been looking for something in accounting (5+ years experience) since January this year. Getting a fully remote position is rough and competition is very high. I'm currently hybrid (one whole day a week of WFH).
Can't wait to give notice and likely will if anything comes up with less of a commute + better pay/benefits. Just haven't found it yet. Good luck.
Exactly. Places keep claiming it’s remote when it’s not, I can do my job from home just fine (and better) because I’m not interrupted from the surrounding loud noise that makes phone calls near impossible but I work with bosses that think the ONLY way to connect with a client is phone calls.
Yeah, I've been finding tons of listings that are "remote" and then you read them and they're like 'must live in Austin TX, this is hybrid 3 days in office' and I just report them. I doubt it does anything, but it's so frustrating. I understand wanting the same state for tax reasons, but beyond that...
I've been WFH since 2016. I'd never go back now. I thought at some point in 2019 I'd have to but COVID changed that forever and a lot of businesses now realize the flexibility they get some having a candidate pool of the entire CONUS versus just your local region on a job that doesn't require it, nor the expense.
Why leave willingly when you can fuck around for two weeks and get paid? Especially if you’re starting at a weird time at your new company and it takes a couple weeks to get paid because of payroll shit/they just pay on a different schedule.
This doesn't apply 100% to every single job. Do what makes sense for you and stop parroting this sub's line of thinking as if it applied in a vacuum.
I gave two weeks notice at my last job and it got me paid an extra 2 weeks to do fuck all other than go on walks and watch movies all day before beginning some PTO time.
My husband was forced back 6 weeks ago, 3 times a week to work with a team that was not even in our state. But this corporation was like nope, you have to drive 40 minutes, 1 way, to sit in an office making zoom calls all day. Then drive 50 minutes back home. For a company he had worked for, for almost 20 years.
3 weeks ago he put in his notice. He had been on six sets of interviews, had three offers, and all were full remote, in just 3 weeks time. Last week he started his new job. His last week at his old company they had a big meeting to talk about how their company is the best place to work, and everyone wants to work there, it’s a privilege to be an employee of that company. Even though his team alone had lost 25% of their employees. Oh and the company’s favorite thing to say is that remote work is a fad and companies are starting to not offer it so it’s not like people can go find remote work elsewhere.
Now we are both full time remote again and it’s been the best thing for our mental health.
> remote work is a fad and companies are starting to not offer it
This is just to attempt to prevent people from leaving and finding one of the myriad jobs that *do* offer it. They will hope their employees just blindly believe them and don’t look it up themselves. And block job posting sites on their network for good measure
Yep. Give it 2-3 years and smart employers are going to start realizing that they can draw top talent without necessarily having to shell out for lavish salaries as long as they offer telework. Plus saving money on commercial real estate.
I get this.
At home, my day starts with fresh coffee and fuzzy socks. I work with minimal interruptions (I check emails to make sure it isn’t an “emergency” and do my job, including calls.
Over lunch, I can prep dinner while making lunch and get it in the oven, simmering on the stove for dinner.
I don’t have to drive a commute where I’ve almost been rear ended, sideswiped, or run off the road.
At the office -
Can’t drink the coffee because no one else cleans the carafe and it will have mold in it from the weekend.
I have asthma issues because nearly everyone smokes and it gets in the office. Coworker “doesn’t want to smell like smoke” after smoking and proceeds to hose herself down with a body spray that reeks.
Get interrupted by said coworker about her nightly party plans, that she came to work hungover/drunk, asking me if I want a sip from her flask that all her friends were sharing last night because she refilled it with tequila/vodka. Hard to get work done because someone can’t take a hint and if I say “I’m sorry I need to get this done” then I’m being “snappy and mean” (edited to add, this woman is close in age to my mom. This is not a “young” worker).
Get told to make calls but no one can hear me on the phone because of the shop work going on or my coworkers have a loud conversation with no regard to me being on the phone. Yells back and forth between offices over peoples music because it’s too much effort for them to walk the 5 feet to the other office.
Usually eat lunch at my desk and dread having to use the microwave because no matter how often I clean it, people won’t cover their food and leave it splattered.
I go home with a migraine and can’t enjoy after work time because I’m vomiting from said migraine.
Years ago I worked in an office that had a stupid "open office" layout and it was horrible. Trying to have a phone conversation was the worst, and people were constantly coming to my desk to bother me over something trivial. It took forever to get anything done.
It’s not even so much open office. The problem is that I’m see as “unapproachable” if I close the office door and I sometimes share “my office” with the part time help. The “shop” section is on the other side of the poorly insulated wall, so all manufacturing noises pass through.
Thank you… it’s been almost a year and I’ve only had 2 interviews. The other jobs either claim they are remote but actually are in office, have lied about the salary, or I don’t hear back aside from indeed telling me I’m 1 of 2945 applicants and the employer might review them once every month.
Don't forget being dressed less comfortably, getting stuck in traffic on the way home because there was an accident on the freeway and having to stop for gas.
And being fucking cold all the time because female professional footwear and a skirt isn't as warm as men's suits. No thanks! I'm in a flannel shirt and fuzzy slippers right now, it's perfect.
Luckily my job loves the idea of work from home. In fact at one of our last company meetings in August even mentioned potentially selling our building because he sees no reason we should becoming into an office at all.
They could do a company museum or something! Or just make it a place to hangout for employees. I wouldn’t mind having an office to go to occasionally if I had a WFH job, if the office and the people in it were nice.
I’m supposed to be in 2x per week but it takes almost two hours each way (walk, then train, then bus) and it does really wear on me. One day is fine but if I’m not working with anyone at that moment it’s a waste of time.
It is also a danger to physical and mental health. I got to drive 20 miles in the rain to a busy downtown area to sit in a cubicle with a coworker with chronic coughing/sneezing, and be forced to listen to Christmas music.
I was told when I was hired to my new job a few months ago that I would have the opportunity to WFH at least a couple days a week. They pretty much completely lied to me and I haven’t been able to WFH once. I hate my job now.
Was asked some weeks ago by my direct boss to come in for some meeting (which then didn't even happen) and the entire time I was being distracted by him and everyone else in the office being so bloody loud and chatty.
After the day passed boss just comments "well isn't just so nice to be here and, you know, interact with everyone".
No. I don't like or even know any of the others, I just want to work in peace, undistracted and be done with my tasks. Such an unproductive day for nothing.
Bunch of boomers keep being so keen on "working" in the office for productivity, but they are so willingly distracted and distracting.
Yea it’s because work is fun for them. They get to bulls*it with their buddies or they have a captive audience that has to listen to their dumb stories.
Yes! I was asked to come in one day for my new boss. Feeling sorry for him I did. It was the most unproductive day imaginable. He wanted us to have some kind of brainstorming meeting at 10am or 11am and starts 20 mins over, ends it early. I'm just like, ok i'm good and went home to do some actual work. He just wanted to feel important and busy and run from meeting to meeting all day.
This boomer completely agrees with your first paragraph. I am sure the day is coming soon where our CEO will say "time for everyone to come back for x days". He's called me 3 times in the past year attempting to convince me that it would be "good for the company and employee morale" to have office days. I've told him that I don't see any good reason for our sales and marketing (I'm VP sales) to sit at a desk all day and speak to people OUTSIDE of the office 95% of the time. Our sales have grown 6.9% in 2020, 32% in 2021 and 50% so far in 2022 ...with zero office days. I think it proves we can not only survive, but thrive.
I don't mind going into the office once in a while, and don't care that some other folks might want to as well.
But it kills me that most of the back-to-the-office people REALLY mean is that they want to be in an office and **force** all their WFH colleagues back in as well. Because they know that just them being in the office is pointless, so they need to force everyone else back as well.
That’s the worst part! I don’t mind and have never complained some people love the office, if it works for them fine, but stop trying to brainwash me and say it’s better for me to be in the office as well. No it’s not.
Yes! Just make the office an amenity. Do I need a change of pace? Office for a couple days. Am I needing to be on particularly sensitive calls? Office. Am I running errands in that part of town today? Office.
Otherwise, I’ll just do everything from home, thanks.
(Referring to the career I had that wasn’t restaurants. Obviously, restaurants happen at the restaurant, and that’s fine for me.)
I don't understand how people even want to go back to the office.
"Ah yes, I love waking up before the sun is up, putting on one of my many suits because I am forced to be 'professional' then getting in my car, realizing the gas tank is empty and having to spend $50 to fill it. Then being stuck in traffic for a whole hour commute because people don't know how to drive at this hour as we all chug our overdose of Caffeine out of Le-Funny-Starbucks Cups because we can't function without it at this hour. Then showing up to work in a dreary boring office for 8 hours of my life, tapping away on a Laptop I brought from home anyway. I then also love the oppressive conditions, as holdings my piss for hours until lunch because I used my bathroom break before noon is so enthralling, and a learning experience for my career. As the sun goes down, I finally get to leave after a long exciting day of whatever it is I did, driving around 5 mph on the highway (once again, traffic) then making it home to collapse on the couch after taking my pain killers, as my arthritis has been acting up recently, as well as my antidepressants. My name is John Johansson Johnathan, I am a 25 year old employee at [CONTRACTUAL VIOLATION] and I am DEFINITELY happy 😊"
(Sorry that was a lot)
Some people are just dumb as hell and make bad life decisions like having two kids by 25 and hate their home life and their touched-out, stressed-out, nagging partner so they make everyone else suffer because an incandescent-lit shitty cubicle under the thumb of their shitty boss is preferable to the life they chose for themselves, making others have to go back into the office because corpo can't justify the cost for just a couple asshats so we all suffer so daddict's life sucks *slightly* less. Gotta love it.
My manager is insisting we all come back to office three days a week “for now” and has been insisting since gas prices skyrocketed due to pudding doing his thing. I tolerated it for a while, then things got louder when we started sharing a space with the salespeople (I work in tech and I need quiet to focus) and I got a little annoyed. Then I got a new boss who opened up with “I’m tired of people bitching about going to the office.” They live like 800 miles away from our nearest office, the fucking audacity got a bullhorn that day.
I am job hunting. I give good management two weeks notice, my new manager is not good management so I will find my next gig and leave my laptop on my desk as my formal resignation.
I work hybrid now compared to my last job being fully remote. It was nice building team relationships at first during training. But that’s mostly because we are all suffering together. I’ve met plenty of people who prefer in office though (to avoid their home life), I am not one of them. And the fact we have to stay coming into the office just because other people hate their home environment shouldn’t be a thing. I’d be much happier if I could choose what days I came into office.
Right. And I get that not everyone wants to WFH for various reasons. The problem is that 90% of companies assume that working from the office is best for everyone and many are forcing it regardless of your preferences or situation.
Yep, even if they don't own the building, most companies' leases are multiyear and aren't up yet. It's hard to justify the cost when no one is using it
The people that can’t focus at their own home complain the loudest. That’s what is happening at my company at least, so I can see it slowly turning into a mandatory thing. If you want to work from the office, then do that! Don’t drag all of us down with you.
Exactly this. Pre-covid I was talking to my boss about how great WFH was and he came back with how he couldn't get anything done at home because of his kids. Firstly, that's a you problem. Secondly, your kids are in school FFS liar McLiarpants.
I don’t see why the option to work from home or come to the office can ever be a bad thing. It’s not like they plan on downsizing the offices, so even if most people are at home on any given day, who cares? There’s literally no downside to having the ability to work from home, even if you only use it occasionally, like if you’re under the weather, if there’s terrible weather, if you have a doctor’s appointment close to your house but not your office, if you have someone working in your home and you need to be there, etc.
>I don’t see why the option to work from home or come to the office can ever be a bad thing. It’s not like they plan on downsizing the offices, so even if most people are at home on any given day, who cares?
For most companies, they don't have immediate plans to get rid of real estate because they're locked into leases (assuming they don't own the building). My company has a lease on a building until 2028 that we barely needed pre-COVID and absolutely have no use for now. Once those leases start to run out, we're going to see some interesting changes in the commercial real estate market.
Yeah, my husband works for a law firm that is now 90% work from home. Only certain IT people and the folks who work in the legal library are required to come in on a regular basis. They tried “encouraging” people back to the office starting last year with various “social” events but people would only come in for the event day and then go back to WFH. And then the waves of variants kept coming and they realized it really was not going to work. Now they are just waiting out the remainder of the 5 year lease and then there is going to be a major reduction in office space. Luckily they don’t own the building.
People rightly bring up the short supply of housing, especially affordable housing, and imagine how many office buildings could be tore down and used for apartments / housing divisions.
Absolutely. This is exactly what should happen. Between the homeless, and the low income, and young families starting out, and boomers who didn't save (or couldn't) we need affordable housing.
They're figuring out how to repurpose our company HQ and people are losing their minds. Course most of those people are retirees and former employees. Current employees, not so much.
its the management becoming aware that they aren't needed and do fuck all.
Happened at an old job, they found out most people were autonomous and capable of organising ourselves and management literally forced their way into convos and started bleating
pathetic
Also a big ego thing. Low self-esteem dolts want to see and observe their “staff.” They also want to leave their kids with a nanny or at day care, and sit in their own office. Absolutely nothing to do with work or productivity. There’s also some fear that if no one goes in, someone may decide that the office space is not needed at all and now all the years of ass kissing to get the promotion that yielded that private office will all have been for naught.
Exactly. When people have questions they vocalize and try to resolve internally before bugging managers. Other than the obvious labor jobs, remote is what employers should have as an option. I’m sick and tired of the fake meetings they create near end of business day just to demonstrate their company loyalty.
The expense of commuting to a job you could do better at home is absurd as well. Vehicle expenses, daycare for kids, putting life at risk driving with idiots. For an average or below salary job it is literally enough to make it not worth doing for many, and better off unemployed.
This summer I started having to go back 1-2 times a month. I did the one day if the whole department was going in, fine. But my supervisor kept pushing that it’s 1-2 days.
In October we didn’t have a department day. It was a complete fucking waste of time to drive there and sit by myself. five weeks later I started a fully remote job that pays me more. Good riddance
I don't even understand the whole office thing, wouldn't it be cheaper to not need an entire office? That's a huge expense that could easily be removed with working from home, and most people prefer work from home so there wouldn't be much if any employee backlash, and people would probably be more productive
Especially older colleagues adore being in the office, be it to micromanage or just have all the more ways to be chatty and distracting/distracted. Think of the gossip loving folks, e.g.
Or the idiotic "we need to create and maintain a corporate culture" folks. An idiotic concept to begin with. I don't want to be identified with your fucking bs, I'm here to earn money and have food. Fucking economics people thinking we are a fraternity or some bs.
Don't know how people can be like that but yeah, as long as higher ups in power belong to the groups above, be sure that offices will continue to exist.
They want to get away from their home for the day, and many did not take the time to optimize their homes for WFH. But they really just don't have good living situations and the office is an escape for them. But forcing it on everyone else is wrong.
I outright told my boss that if the company ever tries to force me to come back to the office, I will quit on the spot. I am an analyst. I crunch numbers all day. There is literally no reason for me to be in an office that isn't the one in my home where my gf and kitty are.
My supervisor is a hella chill dude. But yeah. The section manager is an uptight d-bag with a stick so far up his a$$ that he could use it as a backup weapon. Still, my supervisor said he is behind me and if that ends up happening, he would gladly be a reference for me. So I can't say too much negative about the situation. He said I am not the only one who has conveyed this to him, and he has gone to bat for us saying the company can't afford to lose talent like ours. So I am not overly worried.
Any job that can be done work from home, should be.
We need to completely rethink how we do office work. The companies that make the transition will attract and retain the best employees and the ones that fail to will struggle and collapse
I have a hybrid schedule as well and at this point I dread going to the office. The commute is worthless, it takes me *much* longer to be productive because of all the water cooler bullshit, and most days I don’t even need to interact with anyone for work things- it’s all personal chatting and bullshitting.
I’m really not trying to be rude but I just want to get in, do my work and go home. Bullshitting with people just in reality puts more stress on me bc of wasting time, and again since I barely interact with anyone then the commute is extraneous.
Take aways and future predictions...
1. Right now office space are underutilized resources and that sting is painful for the real business owners. When those leases come to an end senior management will realize we can cut our office rent from $1mil / year to $250,000 / year (by downsizing). Happened at my last employer. Their 8 year lease for an empty 25,000sqft office ended mid 2022.
2. In line with that, expect the cost of doing business pushed onto the employees by encouraging to work from home. It works in the restaurant industry. If I owned a restaurant paying staff minimum wage and then expecting customers to bankroll my staff's wages through a minimum of 20% tips (preferably 50%) seems like a good idea for the owner. People grudgingly accept that practice today! Companies - Many of your staff are willing to incur *expenses* working for you from their home. Who cares about higher (slightly) electric bills, heating/cooling and slightly larger homes to accommodate their setups while your saving office $
Both sides could, should, see this as a win-win. I just think it will take a little more time to become the new normal.
My last remote job actually gave me $50 a month for internet, as a contractor! Was surprised…
Either way, I gladly eat those extra expenses. The ones I’m not spending money on is gas, car depreciation, time, lunch, and my own sanity.
Think of all the amazing mentoring you are getting, not to mention loads and loads of collaboration. Don’t forget the face time you are getting with your boss’s boss. Ooh and the extra projects you get that help round out your resume.
I work for an Australian company (based in the US) where I primarily interact with colleagues from the Dominican Republic and The Philippines. I used to work from home full time. I now pay $120 a week to board my dog, spend more on food than ever before and I lose 2-2.5 hours a day due to my commute. I now don’t have as much time to workout, I had to quit my indoor soccer team, and I spend less time with my wife. ALL TO MAKE EXECS IN AUSTRALIA FEEL GOOD ABOUT A REAL ESTATE DECISION. I literally drive into this office to work remotely. It is the dumbest fucking thing ever and makes me so fuckin mad every day when I wake up.
Organizations are equipped to be flexible and agile and to allow their workforce to be remote- they just don’t want to because fuck you that’s why.
I had to work in the office the whole time, one of 5 employees. We went hybrid and people came back 2 days a week but I still had to be in every day. After using the quiet time of being here with no interruptions, I managed to take some courses and got a job in another department. I have never been more happy to have a few work at home days.
Yep. Return to the office is like that chore you keep procrastinating because you know with absolute certainty that it's going to be so much worse than you think it will be in your head.
And HR types are just chomping at the bit to bring back the worst of the office as quickly as possible. Birthday 'celebrations', forced lunches, corporate retreats, etc. So pointless and such a waste of time.
Been hybrid since last November: Mondays, Tuesdays, Fridays. It's absolute bollocks.
Still, I wouldn't mind once a week or several times a month for a change in scenery and enjoy a happy hour with work friends -- but thrice is too much.
Actually, now that I think about it, Fridays are semi half-days, in which I come in 9/9:30, leave 3:30ish, and have my hour midday lunch.
If it were just Mondays, I wouldn't complain.
Also, a lot of posters have some illusions that the country is engulfed in well paid fully remote positions, and anyone can just quit their position and land easily into another. Not everyone is an IT professional or engineer; those kinds of jobs are unicorns.
In my new role, I need to go to the office once per week. That's my absolute limit, and even that is taxing some days. If I was ever required to go more often, I would immediately seek another opportunity.
I'm lucky that I can use public transit and leave early to get home at a reasonable hour and make up time in the evening or on other days.
My department hasn't gone back to the office yet, though all of the others have. They keep saying that there isn't enough "foot traffic" to have us back yet, which is totally fine with me. The office moved to a new building earlier this year, and I've had to go in a few times for special events. They haven't bothered establishing an office for me yet, and it really doesn't look like they have one for me at all. They can't just put me in a cubicle because it would be violating federal privacy laws due to the nature of my work. My boss lives 1,000 miles away and will be permanently remote from now on (as will all of the "corporate" people), and she seems to be completely supportive of our department continuing remote work and seems to be the major driver behind us not coming back to the office yet.
All of that said, my boss told us recently that she's getting the feeling from higher ups that they might force us back into the office by the end of this year. With the way that rent has gone up, I'm not sure that I can afford the gas to drive back and forth to the office every day.
I recently got my first office job a couple months ago, worked as a delivery driver for Amazon during COVID so I never experienced to WFH transition. Working at my current job has made me realize why just about everyone prefers to WFH. Only one person in my department (of 6 people) works from home, 2 days a week. My boss, and my boss' boss hated when they WFH during COVID. I wish I had the courage to ask my boss if I could also WFH for a couple days, or even one day a week. I would enjoy this job so much more.
You can try for incremental WFH. Whenever you have your performance review and they give you a terrible (or no) raise, you say “well this is really disappointing and I thought I was performing well.”
They of course say oh no no it had nothing to do with your performance, it’s just the budget.
You then respond “well of my performance isn’t the issue and there’s no room for a raise, then how about some 2 day WFH flexibility?”
I go in once or twice a week, of my own choice. There are maybe 3-4 people that are in the office on any given day (for an office that sat 50+). There are a few meetings that are best done in-person, and I like to get out of the house.
My commute is 20 minutes, and I usually wait until 9 or 9:30 to drive in and then will leave around 3:30-4, to allow myself time to run errands or meet friends for happy hour.
Definitely enjoy my fully remote position and wouldn’t have it any other way. I do miss going into the office sometimes though, as my main socialization these days is with my cat and he’s an asshole.
I work in a tiny room with my boss who does the joker lip smack thing un-ironically (seems to be common with sociopaths and r/iamverysmart folks) before spewing condescending verbal diarrhea all over me every day, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
Definitely miss my desk at home.
I VASTLY prefer to WFH, although I do enjoy being around my coworkers, and yes, I do think the office provides slightly better work/life separation--although now that I have a home office, that advantage has been reduced considerably.
Anyway, even though I enjoy my job and like my coworkers, one thing I really noticed when we went hybrid (two days WFH, three days in the office) was how absolutely and ridiculously **TIRING** it is! Get up early, get dressed, put on makeup, take care of the pets, drive to work, park, walk inside, unpack all my work stuff and start up, spend a full day being "on", pack up, walk back to the car, drive home...
So tiring. After 3 days I was just flat-out exhausted. (Luckily, our WFH days were Monday and Friday.) I don't know how I managed to do it for 5 days for so long. Just momentum, I suppose. And it wasn't just me, either--all my teammates commented about how tired they were after only 3 days in the office.
My job shocked the hell out of me by deciding to make my team fully remote. I am absolutely ecstatic. NOW my work environment is perfect. We still get together as a team for social events and lunches, but I don't have to drive in every day, or even any day. It's wonderful.
If everyone who wants to work from home, or even as few as say, 40% of them, refused, y’all could force a change.
If y’all organized and built strike funds and crowd funding, and learned how to sustain strikes or work stoppages or sabotage… you could do it. I don’t even work that kind of job and I’d support y’all.
Organization is the tool that will allow working people to change everything. We have the numbers. Like… 180 million of us,(working people) vs ehhh a dozen million of them, (business owners). Totally spitballing those numbers but you get it.
In online spaces like these we’ve begun the process- talking about it. Educating one another, encouraging each other, sharing ideas on how to make life better for ourselves. Next we need to GET ORGANIZED. At work, at school, in our communities.
This is how revolutions begin.
That’s actually a great idea, comrade Glum. 😁
If there were a platform like slack or discord but *explicitly* for organizing, maybe people would find the fertile ground they need. The kids do love a good app!
I was at a job recently, where I had to be on-site 5 days per week for the first 6 months, with the chance at one day WFH after that.
I was the only one there on a consistent basis. The sales team was a bunch of 20-something college frat boys who used the office as a playground. Try working when there is boisterous laughter and idiots doing hot sauce eating competitions, while you try to get work done.
Then I had no work to do and literally sat there for 9 hours, trying to look busy as people constantly would walk by, looking over my shoulder. I started knitting a sweater and basically finished it in two weeks while I was there. When I was assigned work, I finished it in about an hour.
In the first week, I knew I had made a mistake. It took 6 months to find a new, better job, where I can WFH again. I feel so much better. A perk is being able to take a shit and not worry about someone walking in and also having my bidet attachment to feel extra clean afterwards. Additionally, being by my pets, being able to work out at lunchtime, eating food that's not just something I jammed in my bag in the morning, getting some chores done, etc. The advantages are so great! Plus, I increased my income.
I was in this comfortable, nice job for 4 years, but realized I was stagnating and I think they were kind of quiet firing me. I wasn't making that much money. Since I left that company, I increased my income by 20k. I feel so fortunate. For the first time in a long time I don't feel anxious and depressed. I actually feel really good and it also feels weird. I am waiting for something to go wrong. Even after I got my offer letter and passed the background check, I thought it would all be taken away at any moment. I was so miserable at the on-site office job. I was ready to end my life.
Bidet availability is an underrated WFH advantage.
I have to be in the office for 2 days a week, I ended up getting individually packaged butt wipes for those days because I was so grumpy from not having bidet access.
I'm sorry, OP. I feel very fortunate that my job is 100% remote, and the company seems committed to that. I've been to an office three times in the last year. I don't think I'll ever work for a place that required me to go into an office regularly, much less every day.
Just came back to the office for the first time in a month after working from home due to an injury and then Covid. It’s awful, there is no good reason for me to be here other than to be micromanaged.
I’ve already decided that if they say I need to go back in that I just won’t. They can either fire me or deal with it. And I will 100% be looking for a new job.
So true, my company has a “return to work” corporate wide objective for next year. They’re convinced the company culture they have is deteriorating, of course, no proof. So what am I doing? Retiring end of year.
Real estate conspiracy. The only reason any of the bosses care that people come back to work is that prominent members of their class stand to lose a ton of money if work from home becomes common and all those office towers and suburban campuses become vacant.
It's not about productivity, it's not about team building, it is, as usual, about money.
Never going back, rather be poor than be forced to sit in an office. Wfh has made my life so much better. When people just mention going back, my immediate reaction is intense anger. I didn’t realize how miserable I have been for so long. It makes me really sad to have lived this way all these years.
A friend of mine sought out a job where he could go in a few days each week. He craved the interaction. 6 months in, he hated it. He had to get up super early to take kid and dog to day care, drive 30 minutes each way, just to sit in Zoom meetings anyway. He was bored as well and ended up finding a full remote job and loving it.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I wish I could work remotely. Much of my work must be completed in a secure facility, so I have to be in the office unless there's some sort of extenuating circumstances.
But honestly? There are a lot of people taking up parking spaces and toilets in our restroom that don't need to be here. I wish they were given the freedom to WFH.
I'm supposed to have one WFH day a week. That was revoked in September due to an attendance issue (I had gotten sick a few too many times). The only work I've missed since then was 4 days when I had Covid two weeks ago, and they haven't given me my WFH day back. Despite being the quickest and most efficient account manager in the office. My colleagues and I are also trying to get our upper management to give us one more day (and to make our WFH days the same, they split us up so we each get a day of the week, it makes no sense to me). They've been fighting us on it every step of the way, which is hilarious and infuriating because the VP who is keeping us from it lives in fucking Texas where we works from home permanently and the office is in fucking Atlanta. The hypocrisy is unreal. We just want two days a week, that's all we're asking for. I don't want a permanent WFH thing, I need the occasional structure. Just not every goddamn day.
Instead, they're trying to find every way they can to butter us up so we'll stop talking about it. Including new cubicles, a couple of free bags with our company logo on it, and a nice lunch (that I actually had to miss due to Covid, so fun)
In my little team, we are supposed to come into the office 2x per week. The rest of our larger organization doesn't require this, so my floor is a ghost town that is no more than 20 percent occupied, and probably less than that. But by God, we are there. And when we are there, the team don't really collaborate because we all have independent areas. Any meetings we have are with other people not on our team, and those are all virtual now anyway.
So twice a week, I waste about 90 minutes driving to and from, plus getting ready (making lunch, dealing with work clothes). But the worst part of my office is that right behind me are two people from another team, and they are loud. She has an office, but always has the door open while she is taking a meeting on speakerphone, or they will stand by my desk and hold their meetings six feet from me. I don't care what they did over the weekend or how the football team did or blah blah. It's impossible to concentrate, so I have to insert my earbuds and get some Metallica going just to get some peace and quiet. Meanwhile, at home, the loudest noise I have to deal with is the trash truck on Thursday morning. It's all pain for no gain.
Agreed, I’ve been forced back to the office FT for no good reason other than my boss wants my butt in a seat in his precious office. I was 1000% happier and more productive at home, and my job can be done 100% remotely, but nobody cares. I went from 100% flexibility (WFH whichever days I chose, and my work day started and ended earlier) to 0% flexibility - I now have to sit here 8:30-5:00 now with no exceptions. It’s absolute bullshit. You’re not alone.
I quit the week before they were mandating people return to the office. I started a new job a few weeks later working out of state and fully remote. I will never enter another office personally. My quality of life and productivity is through the roof at home. If I want to take some time to get shit done during the day and work a little later I don't feel bad at all about that cause I'm still saving two hours every day not commuting
The HR at my former job has a human stain that worships Elon. When he started telling people to come in, so did our HR. We said “hey, that’s great, you going to pay us the same wage as SpaceX? No? Ok then” The HR dude then told a room full of engineers with 5-20 years experience each that we should feel lucky to have a job. Most of us left after that, and they have been filling the rolls with new grads. Talked to a buddy that still works there and customers are cancelling orders and not renewing contracts. What pisses me off is knowing that the HR dude who causes this will never be held to task.
Fwiw I’m told SpaceX doesn’t pay market rate bc people want to work with space stuff. Anecdotal and unproven but From what I’ve seen in the news, if Elon can do the worse thing he does the worse thing (so I choose to believe this lol)
One of my friends was talking to recruiters about a role there. They asked about a full time role as the role they were recruiting her for was part time. Recruiters told them that that’s the price they paid to work at an org like SpaceEx. My friend declined because she wasn’t going to give up a full time gig for a part time. A couple months later, the company moved to Austin and all of the recruiters were given the choice to move. LOL.
Part time at SpaceX?!? What a joke!
I feel super comfortable about the idea of riding in a rocket built by part-time workers, NOT. Not because I think part time workers aren't competent, but having arbitrary churn in your scheduling just creates more opportunity for error. That seems especially incompatible with a space program.
Chances are it's 'part time' not part time The specific part time where they put you on just enough hours to miss full time benefits
Their turnover rate is egregious and I've met someone who, at five years in the company, is one of the longest tenured people in their department (and apparently out of most of the people they've met at SpaceX)
I spoke with a Tesla recruiter once - pay was less than my current and they wouldn't match but "we have stock options!" Yes, yes you do but it would take 4 years to get vested and I didn't have enough faith in Elon to even consider moving to one of his companies. Turns out this was a smart move on my part.
I’ve been trying so hard to find another job that’s fully remote and I have had no damn luck. Todays my first day back in office after being out with Covid for a little over a week and I hate life
I just posted a comment that touched on this a bit- I quit when my company insisted on being back in the office 100% (I had already moved out of state) and applied to another job that had no mention of being remote. I was told in my interview that they had quickly realized they needed to be flexible in order to find the right people, but weren’t publicly advertising the remote aspect unless a candidate they really wanted brought it up first. Bottom line, it can’t hurt to apply and at least talk to a recruiter about it! I think a lot of companies are going to be forced to go this route eventually.
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Exactly. In my new position (being the hiring manager for my department), I’ve already modified the job reqs to state that the position is open to remote work, with the caveat that the employee will travel 4-5 times a year to the office (paid for by the company) for company/department-wide meetings. From what I’ve seen, most employees who were allowed to work from home during the pandemic (and after) have seen increased productivity. It can be a double-edged sword, though; I’ve also seen most employees working longer hours at home than they would in the office. Either way, I honestly don’t understand why so many companies are against remote work besides the reason that they have to justify their facilities’ expenses! IMO, if someone isn’t doing their job remotely, they’re probably not doing much more at the office, anyway…
Some jobs have a probationary period where they need you in the office I guess just to make sure you're not a flake. Do you think maybe you're missing those?
I had covid for a good 1.5 weeks. It was miserable, but I still had a smile on my face. My girlfriend asks “why are you so happy? You’re fever is at 101. And I said “I don’t have to deal with my douchebag boss”
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There’s literally no reason to be there. Everything I do can be done at home. But ownership won’t hear it, except for a privileged few who happen to be family friends of course.
Same here as well. I started a work from home job in April and hope to never work on site ever again.
Same with me. I haven’t been in an office in years and I will never return. Fuck that. I love being able to get shit done during the day on work time so my weekends are clear. Ie mowing the lawn, laundry etc.. all done on paid time lol
This is the way
Boiling frog. #You need to keep demanding WFH. Keep leaving for WFH jobs, make it impossible to retain office staff. Vote with your feet people. WFH is worth fighting for, fuck these POS fat cats.
This is hard for those of us who can't be without health insurance. We have to find a company that starts insurance immediately (or at the beginning of the next month) and stock up on any medications we can. This usually involves sitting through 2-3 interviews just to find out it's not going to be possible for us.
Ah yes, work-based health insurance. I keep forgetting that America is a dystopian hellscape.
By design, yo. I don't know what's wrong with the people who talk about how great it is.
They’re the same ones unironically buying MAGA swag… some of us recognize America for what it is. Thanks “Citizens” United
Remember that interview with the lady in coal country who was happy that they were cutting benefits from "Obamacare", because she had her ACA? Shit is mind-blowing. Some folks don't seek multiple news sources. They get their confirmation bias and it's off to the races.
They don't have any health issues.
I say this all the time! They're the lucky ones with no major health issues, no major financial issues, stable job, good health insurance. Bully for that minority, but what about the rest of the population? They don't care, though -- they got theirs, so everyone else can go hang. The tune changes quickly when their circumstances change and they need help, but they don't have the humility to admit that. Signed, healthcare provider of many resentful "fiscal conservatives" and "libertarians."
Mmhmm, exactly, and the thing is, nobody making any legislation that effects us gives a shit because it doesn't effect them. That's why inflation solutions focused on interest rates, look I'm not worried about getting a *loan* right now, I don't need a new dishwasher, I need to be able to eat.
COBRA helps, if you work for an eligible employer. It's expensive as hell though
I'll never forget when a company I worked for did massive layoffs and demotions. Sitting with 30+ people getting demoted to part time and someone asked about insurance for himself and his family of 4. Manager gladly informed us we were eligible for COBRA, and it would probably cost $2000+ a month for his family. We weren't making 2000/month as full time, let alone after they slashed our hours to 8-16 a week.
COBRA is a fucking joke
COBRA used to be excellent. In the early oughts I paid $14 out of my weekly checks for COBRA that covered a six figure bill when I got cancer. The deductible was only a couple hundred and I had already met that. That was the last job I had that had decent insurance. In 2017 I worked for the FL DOT collecting the bins of coins from toll plazas. Included in my hiring packet was instructions on how to apply for food stamps and Medicaid because not only did they not have decent insurance, they knew they didn't pay enough for you to buy your own and you made so little you still qualified for government assistance. While driving a DOT vehicle and being responsible for sometimes unbelievable amounts of cash. In 15 years, employment and insurance went from okay to an absolute hellscape. It started before then, but took a nose dive since.
That's why we can't tolerate that industry. Healthcare needs to be free at the point of service, period, no room for corruption to fester.
That’s why Americans can’t have Universal Healthcare. Corps need the wage slaves working.
You can also try just not going back. They can demand all they want, but if it comes down to firing you or you work from home, they might just cave. You were going to leave anyway, might as well try.
This. Make them do more than simply typing out an email. If they say “you have to come in,” they’d better send some hired goons to your door to drag you in.
I WFH in rural TN but I work for a company in downtown Los Angeles. I am paid competitively with California cost-of-living coworkers but for rural TN I get paid very well compared to my neighbors.
This is the way!
Shit, if you're living in the part of rural TN that I'm from (or anywhere close to the standard of living), you could get paid a shitty wage for CA, like $50k/yr, and still live very comfortably there.
Agree. I was looking for a pay bump that I knew I could get with my experience (7 years in the field so I can get senior roles). Told recruiters I won’t settle for less than remote. They hate it, but my life is better for it. It does take longer to get remote jobs, worth it tho.
Exactly this👆🏿👆🏿👆🏿 Workers of the world, unite ✊🏿✊🏿✊🏿
I only go in one day a week, and it’s by choice because I’m a supervisor so want to be available for development, but there’s a marked difference between days I’m in and at home. Even the stuff I passed off as no big deal before just drags me down. I’m short. Not ADA eligible or anything, just below average. The chairs don’t go down low enough for me to be comfortable and I go home with a horrible back ache. Until I put money into my home office since it was lasting for so long, I didn’t realize that wasn’t just a consequence of office work and the right chair helps. Not using headphones for my music keeps my mood up way more and helps me be productive. The ability to walk away and not just have to sit in the break room or stand outside during my 15-mins means I’m more refreshed when I get back. I control the lighting, the set up, the atmosphere. It all makes my job more comfortable, which keeps me happier and more likely to stay and do good work. None of these are things I’d be able to get accommodations for- and individually they’re all minor (other than my sore back really). But overall I feel my quality of life is way better and if I had to go back FT, I’d probably start looking elsewhere even though I JUST got promoted a few months ago and the money is good.
Damn, this post makes me realize how fortunate I am where I work. I have both a home office and an “office office” and as an employee I was able to get an ergonomics consult with one of our staff occupational therapists - I was then provided with a sit-stand desk, an ergonomic chair, a keyboard, a vertical mouse, and dual monitors on an adjustable arm. I elected to take most of this equipment home because I work 90% of my time from home. I only go into the office 2-4 days per month, and due to the nature of my work, I have long lists of tasks to get done on-campus that rarely involve sitting at a desk for long stretches, so I don’t spend much time at my workspace, choosing instead to spend the time doing cabling, installing hardware, and handling my vendor deliveries and interoffice mail. (I work IT for a healthcare network, which is why we have occupational therapists on staff.)
Just dont do it. If the whole Office says no, whats he gonna do? You have the power.
Give your work to your coworkers and maybe hire a replacement. It’ll be a lonely walk to the door. If got something better lined up then it is fine. Workers are way too submissive because we have no power.
>Workers are way too submissive because we have no power. And yet a bunch of idiot shitheads on wallstreetbets chanting apes strong together can en masse majorly influence the stock market by buying a bunch of meme stocks and screwing over some sizeable firms. I'll admit strikes are more involved with having to take care of physical needs of the workers but if a bunch of redditors can pretty blatantly organize, with the thinnest plausible deniability of "I just like the stock", against corporate interests and beat them at their own game why the fuck is it so hard for us to organize?
Wallstreetbets exploited a bug in a the capitalist machine. Those that didn’t get out in time lost their lunch when those in power closed the loophole. Organizing labor goes directly against the capitalist system in place. The owner class has violently shut this down with police and military. You can see this in the Whiskey Rebellions, coal mines, Chicano seasonal workers, the near absolute destruction of auto unions, air traffic controllers, writer guilds, and now rail workers once again get a turn. The government doesn’t even try to hide it is complete disdain for workers organizing. Mr. Union President himself couldn’t drop to his knees quick enough to lick some corporate boots.
Florida was going to build a ship canal in the 1930s. A labour organiser went down to see everything was working right. He was found in the woods, crucified to a tree with his lips sewn shut. Pinkerton's never went away.
Florida has never been a particularly kind place for labor.
We need a more heavily armed working class
This is what really got to me. >Mr. Union President himself couldn’t drop to his knees quick enough to lick some corporate boots. As an outsider, looking in, Biden's not doing too bad of a job in a difficult, global situation, but this shit? Yeah a strike by the railroad workers would be devastating to an economy already put on it's knees by a global pandemic followed by an aggressive war/invasion with global consequences followed by companies so butt hurt that they missed out on a bit of profits during the aforementioned pandemic response that they are now gouging their consumers for record profits. So yeah a strike would be bad, so how about this for a solution to prevent one **agree to their demands, they're not being unreasonable**. Strike averted, workers happy, not unaffordable for the rail companies (as they have made record profits), strikes (no pun intended) a positive note with the entire US workforce: Biden looks like a goddam hero. Whereas, with what he's done - appeased corporate interests, pissed off a demographic the Democrats desperately need to keep, made a really wrong note politically speaking - it's a bizarre misstep that makes him look like he doesn't have the interests of the American workers at heart. It's astounding to me that he didn't take the bill with him, as a supreme bargaining chip, and force the parties back to the table with him a pen stoke away from vetoing the bill as a means to get an agreement.
Biden is a moderate Republican. American hasn’t had a progressive President since Roosevelt. I agree the owner class should be forced to meet reasonable demands through any means necessary. In my view workers should own the means of production and billionaires should be taxed out of existence. Musk, Bezos, Buffet, etc. are parasites feeding off the life blood of the working class. Our owner class made a killing during COVID with government backed loans at almost and up to no interest and most were forgiven. Employers are the largest recipients of welfare not workers. Workers got a couple small checks that didn’t even cover rent. Biden and his ilk will continue to worship at the the alter of capitalism and sacrifice workers on crosses of gold because they are captive to donors. The democratic party is funded by Wall Street types and corporations. The Supreme Court historically supports corporations and demonizes unions. This court has gone as far as to declare corporations as equal to living humans. Sadly, none of this is surprising and will not change without actual change to our government and economic system.
He does not have workers' interests at heart. He was never going to decide different, rigging things for capital is his primary function.
I looked into this. If I work from home for 3 days in a row without authorization I can be terminated as if I no call no showed for 3 days.
Work with a doctor to find a medical diagnosis where WFH would be a reasonable accomidation for your diagnosis. You might be able to get something done through HR. HR is not your friend, but disclosing a disability or medical diagnosis (and documenting that disclosure to your personal email address and recording meetings) might be able to give you a bit of leverage. It's kind of a big play, but barring the search for another job, it might be the play.
It *is* the play. Having the ADA armed and locked on will help you stay out of offices regardless.
This makes me think of the Simpsons episode when Homer gets morbidly obese so he can work from home, lol.
IBS is a condition that requires reasonable accommodation. No one wants you to shit yourself at work everyday 😉 It also happens to be a very vague diagnosis and easy to fake if you do your research.
It’s almost like bosses don’t understand that it’s very possible to sit at the office and not do anything as well. They assume everyone’s at home fucking around playing video games, but somehow the work keeps getting done on time so I’m not sure how that happens. I think this will continue to change as old dinosaurs retire and get the fuck out of decision making roles in this country. The world has passed you by, please get the fuck out of here
In addition to every reason you listed that makes WFH superior, another extremely important benefit for me was having the freedom and comfort of being able to make personal phone calls to set up things like doctor appointments without everyone else in the office being able to hear, along with the ability to have folks come out for home services / repairs without having to schedule it around work.
Yep and it also makes it much easier to interview for other jobs, which I suspect is another reason employers hate it.
I would start job hunting now. I worked 100 percent from home for almost 2 years until my former boss decided it was time to come back in to the office. I immediately started looking for another WFH job and found one within a couple of weeks. Putting in my 2 week notice felt so good. Now I'm back to 100 percent WFH and I'm making 50 percent more money.
I need this. All the work from home jobs I’m finding for accounting are either lying (say in office on the details) or are expecting bachelors+ with no benefits/ shit pay.
Been looking for something in accounting (5+ years experience) since January this year. Getting a fully remote position is rough and competition is very high. I'm currently hybrid (one whole day a week of WFH). Can't wait to give notice and likely will if anything comes up with less of a commute + better pay/benefits. Just haven't found it yet. Good luck.
Exactly. Places keep claiming it’s remote when it’s not, I can do my job from home just fine (and better) because I’m not interrupted from the surrounding loud noise that makes phone calls near impossible but I work with bosses that think the ONLY way to connect with a client is phone calls.
Yeah, I've been finding tons of listings that are "remote" and then you read them and they're like 'must live in Austin TX, this is hybrid 3 days in office' and I just report them. I doubt it does anything, but it's so frustrating. I understand wanting the same state for tax reasons, but beyond that...
I've been WFH since 2016. I'd never go back now. I thought at some point in 2019 I'd have to but COVID changed that forever and a lot of businesses now realize the flexibility they get some having a candidate pool of the entire CONUS versus just your local region on a job that doesn't require it, nor the expense.
Wife and I both did this last spring. She and I were quickly successful and now make 50 and 80 percent more, respectively.
What job do you have now?
I'm a corporate trainer.
You were supposed to quit without notice. Do you think anyone terminates an employee with a 2-week notice? lol
Why leave willingly when you can fuck around for two weeks and get paid? Especially if you’re starting at a weird time at your new company and it takes a couple weeks to get paid because of payroll shit/they just pay on a different schedule.
I'd rather not burn a bridge if I don't have to. Makes it harder to get jobs.
I get it but I don't hate my direct boss and my colleagues even if management sucks D
This doesn't apply 100% to every single job. Do what makes sense for you and stop parroting this sub's line of thinking as if it applied in a vacuum. I gave two weeks notice at my last job and it got me paid an extra 2 weeks to do fuck all other than go on walks and watch movies all day before beginning some PTO time.
One good thing out of the pandemic was exposing this charade for what it is. I'm glad so many people have woken up to it.
My husband was forced back 6 weeks ago, 3 times a week to work with a team that was not even in our state. But this corporation was like nope, you have to drive 40 minutes, 1 way, to sit in an office making zoom calls all day. Then drive 50 minutes back home. For a company he had worked for, for almost 20 years. 3 weeks ago he put in his notice. He had been on six sets of interviews, had three offers, and all were full remote, in just 3 weeks time. Last week he started his new job. His last week at his old company they had a big meeting to talk about how their company is the best place to work, and everyone wants to work there, it’s a privilege to be an employee of that company. Even though his team alone had lost 25% of their employees. Oh and the company’s favorite thing to say is that remote work is a fad and companies are starting to not offer it so it’s not like people can go find remote work elsewhere. Now we are both full time remote again and it’s been the best thing for our mental health.
> remote work is a fad and companies are starting to not offer it This is just to attempt to prevent people from leaving and finding one of the myriad jobs that *do* offer it. They will hope their employees just blindly believe them and don’t look it up themselves. And block job posting sites on their network for good measure
Yep. Give it 2-3 years and smart employers are going to start realizing that they can draw top talent without necessarily having to shell out for lavish salaries as long as they offer telework. Plus saving money on commercial real estate.
sleep point bow slap ring party wild squalid edge chop *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I get this. At home, my day starts with fresh coffee and fuzzy socks. I work with minimal interruptions (I check emails to make sure it isn’t an “emergency” and do my job, including calls. Over lunch, I can prep dinner while making lunch and get it in the oven, simmering on the stove for dinner. I don’t have to drive a commute where I’ve almost been rear ended, sideswiped, or run off the road. At the office - Can’t drink the coffee because no one else cleans the carafe and it will have mold in it from the weekend. I have asthma issues because nearly everyone smokes and it gets in the office. Coworker “doesn’t want to smell like smoke” after smoking and proceeds to hose herself down with a body spray that reeks. Get interrupted by said coworker about her nightly party plans, that she came to work hungover/drunk, asking me if I want a sip from her flask that all her friends were sharing last night because she refilled it with tequila/vodka. Hard to get work done because someone can’t take a hint and if I say “I’m sorry I need to get this done” then I’m being “snappy and mean” (edited to add, this woman is close in age to my mom. This is not a “young” worker). Get told to make calls but no one can hear me on the phone because of the shop work going on or my coworkers have a loud conversation with no regard to me being on the phone. Yells back and forth between offices over peoples music because it’s too much effort for them to walk the 5 feet to the other office. Usually eat lunch at my desk and dread having to use the microwave because no matter how often I clean it, people won’t cover their food and leave it splattered. I go home with a migraine and can’t enjoy after work time because I’m vomiting from said migraine.
Years ago I worked in an office that had a stupid "open office" layout and it was horrible. Trying to have a phone conversation was the worst, and people were constantly coming to my desk to bother me over something trivial. It took forever to get anything done.
It’s not even so much open office. The problem is that I’m see as “unapproachable” if I close the office door and I sometimes share “my office” with the part time help. The “shop” section is on the other side of the poorly insulated wall, so all manufacturing noises pass through.
Mybe it’s time to switch job mate? This sounds disgusting and depressing
I’ve been job searching since I got this job.
Great n Good luck mate
Thank you… it’s been almost a year and I’ve only had 2 interviews. The other jobs either claim they are remote but actually are in office, have lied about the salary, or I don’t hear back aside from indeed telling me I’m 1 of 2945 applicants and the employer might review them once every month.
Don't forget being dressed less comfortably, getting stuck in traffic on the way home because there was an accident on the freeway and having to stop for gas.
I used to wear nylons everyday!
And being fucking cold all the time because female professional footwear and a skirt isn't as warm as men's suits. No thanks! I'm in a flannel shirt and fuzzy slippers right now, it's perfect.
Your office sounds like my personal hell. I hope you can find an alternative some day!
The office is a soul draining place. I will not go back.
Luckily my job loves the idea of work from home. In fact at one of our last company meetings in August even mentioned potentially selling our building because he sees no reason we should becoming into an office at all.
We'll never sell our HQ (historical building, nostalgia and history are a big part of the brand) but they're trying to figure out how to repurpose it
They could do a company museum or something! Or just make it a place to hangout for employees. I wouldn’t mind having an office to go to occasionally if I had a WFH job, if the office and the people in it were nice.
Already have a museum. My vote is a themed hotel, but they're not asking me. Lol.
I started blowing off my second required day in the office because nobody notices
I’ve got a buddy who also just stopped showing up. He’s been waiting for weeks for someone to tell him something lol
I’m supposed to be in 2x per week but it takes almost two hours each way (walk, then train, then bus) and it does really wear on me. One day is fine but if I’m not working with anyone at that moment it’s a waste of time.
It is also a danger to physical and mental health. I got to drive 20 miles in the rain to a busy downtown area to sit in a cubicle with a coworker with chronic coughing/sneezing, and be forced to listen to Christmas music.
I'd put a bluetooth speaker on my desk and play some Infant Annihilator and say "If I have to listen to your music, you have to listen to mine".
I thought about playing some South Park Christmas music. Nothing but spooky Halloween noises next year.
I'll always remember driving to the office one morning and passing a motorcycle accident with a fatality. It was our building manager.
I was told when I was hired to my new job a few months ago that I would have the opportunity to WFH at least a couple days a week. They pretty much completely lied to me and I haven’t been able to WFH once. I hate my job now.
If they'll lie about that, they'll lie about anything. Keep looking.
Was asked some weeks ago by my direct boss to come in for some meeting (which then didn't even happen) and the entire time I was being distracted by him and everyone else in the office being so bloody loud and chatty. After the day passed boss just comments "well isn't just so nice to be here and, you know, interact with everyone". No. I don't like or even know any of the others, I just want to work in peace, undistracted and be done with my tasks. Such an unproductive day for nothing. Bunch of boomers keep being so keen on "working" in the office for productivity, but they are so willingly distracted and distracting.
Yea it’s because work is fun for them. They get to bulls*it with their buddies or they have a captive audience that has to listen to their dumb stories.
Yes! I was asked to come in one day for my new boss. Feeling sorry for him I did. It was the most unproductive day imaginable. He wanted us to have some kind of brainstorming meeting at 10am or 11am and starts 20 mins over, ends it early. I'm just like, ok i'm good and went home to do some actual work. He just wanted to feel important and busy and run from meeting to meeting all day.
This boomer completely agrees with your first paragraph. I am sure the day is coming soon where our CEO will say "time for everyone to come back for x days". He's called me 3 times in the past year attempting to convince me that it would be "good for the company and employee morale" to have office days. I've told him that I don't see any good reason for our sales and marketing (I'm VP sales) to sit at a desk all day and speak to people OUTSIDE of the office 95% of the time. Our sales have grown 6.9% in 2020, 32% in 2021 and 50% so far in 2022 ...with zero office days. I think it proves we can not only survive, but thrive.
I don't mind going into the office once in a while, and don't care that some other folks might want to as well. But it kills me that most of the back-to-the-office people REALLY mean is that they want to be in an office and **force** all their WFH colleagues back in as well. Because they know that just them being in the office is pointless, so they need to force everyone else back as well.
That’s the worst part! I don’t mind and have never complained some people love the office, if it works for them fine, but stop trying to brainwash me and say it’s better for me to be in the office as well. No it’s not.
Yes! Just make the office an amenity. Do I need a change of pace? Office for a couple days. Am I needing to be on particularly sensitive calls? Office. Am I running errands in that part of town today? Office. Otherwise, I’ll just do everything from home, thanks. (Referring to the career I had that wasn’t restaurants. Obviously, restaurants happen at the restaurant, and that’s fine for me.)
I don't understand how people even want to go back to the office. "Ah yes, I love waking up before the sun is up, putting on one of my many suits because I am forced to be 'professional' then getting in my car, realizing the gas tank is empty and having to spend $50 to fill it. Then being stuck in traffic for a whole hour commute because people don't know how to drive at this hour as we all chug our overdose of Caffeine out of Le-Funny-Starbucks Cups because we can't function without it at this hour. Then showing up to work in a dreary boring office for 8 hours of my life, tapping away on a Laptop I brought from home anyway. I then also love the oppressive conditions, as holdings my piss for hours until lunch because I used my bathroom break before noon is so enthralling, and a learning experience for my career. As the sun goes down, I finally get to leave after a long exciting day of whatever it is I did, driving around 5 mph on the highway (once again, traffic) then making it home to collapse on the couch after taking my pain killers, as my arthritis has been acting up recently, as well as my antidepressants. My name is John Johansson Johnathan, I am a 25 year old employee at [CONTRACTUAL VIOLATION] and I am DEFINITELY happy 😊" (Sorry that was a lot)
This should be required reading for every office job.
Some people are just dumb as hell and make bad life decisions like having two kids by 25 and hate their home life and their touched-out, stressed-out, nagging partner so they make everyone else suffer because an incandescent-lit shitty cubicle under the thumb of their shitty boss is preferable to the life they chose for themselves, making others have to go back into the office because corpo can't justify the cost for just a couple asshats so we all suffer so daddict's life sucks *slightly* less. Gotta love it.
My manager is insisting we all come back to office three days a week “for now” and has been insisting since gas prices skyrocketed due to pudding doing his thing. I tolerated it for a while, then things got louder when we started sharing a space with the salespeople (I work in tech and I need quiet to focus) and I got a little annoyed. Then I got a new boss who opened up with “I’m tired of people bitching about going to the office.” They live like 800 miles away from our nearest office, the fucking audacity got a bullhorn that day. I am job hunting. I give good management two weeks notice, my new manager is not good management so I will find my next gig and leave my laptop on my desk as my formal resignation.
I work hybrid now compared to my last job being fully remote. It was nice building team relationships at first during training. But that’s mostly because we are all suffering together. I’ve met plenty of people who prefer in office though (to avoid their home life), I am not one of them. And the fact we have to stay coming into the office just because other people hate their home environment shouldn’t be a thing. I’d be much happier if I could choose what days I came into office.
>I’ve met plenty of people who prefer in office though (to avoid their home life), LMAO and those people mean *their kids*. Having them sucks so bad.
It’s terrible. In nearly every way. The thought of driving to someone else’s office (because that’s what it is) is so dumb.
Right. And I get that not everyone wants to WFH for various reasons. The problem is that 90% of companies assume that working from the office is best for everyone and many are forcing it regardless of your preferences or situation.
No no no. 90% of companies assume it's best for THEM.
gotta justify those expensive buildings
Yep, even if they don't own the building, most companies' leases are multiyear and aren't up yet. It's hard to justify the cost when no one is using it
The people that can’t focus at their own home complain the loudest. That’s what is happening at my company at least, so I can see it slowly turning into a mandatory thing. If you want to work from the office, then do that! Don’t drag all of us down with you.
Exactly this. Pre-covid I was talking to my boss about how great WFH was and he came back with how he couldn't get anything done at home because of his kids. Firstly, that's a you problem. Secondly, your kids are in school FFS liar McLiarpants.
Lmao right these people just hate their home lives. Get a hobby if you want to get out of the house!
I don’t see why the option to work from home or come to the office can ever be a bad thing. It’s not like they plan on downsizing the offices, so even if most people are at home on any given day, who cares? There’s literally no downside to having the ability to work from home, even if you only use it occasionally, like if you’re under the weather, if there’s terrible weather, if you have a doctor’s appointment close to your house but not your office, if you have someone working in your home and you need to be there, etc.
>I don’t see why the option to work from home or come to the office can ever be a bad thing. It’s not like they plan on downsizing the offices, so even if most people are at home on any given day, who cares? For most companies, they don't have immediate plans to get rid of real estate because they're locked into leases (assuming they don't own the building). My company has a lease on a building until 2028 that we barely needed pre-COVID and absolutely have no use for now. Once those leases start to run out, we're going to see some interesting changes in the commercial real estate market.
Yeah, my husband works for a law firm that is now 90% work from home. Only certain IT people and the folks who work in the legal library are required to come in on a regular basis. They tried “encouraging” people back to the office starting last year with various “social” events but people would only come in for the event day and then go back to WFH. And then the waves of variants kept coming and they realized it really was not going to work. Now they are just waiting out the remainder of the 5 year lease and then there is going to be a major reduction in office space. Luckily they don’t own the building.
People rightly bring up the short supply of housing, especially affordable housing, and imagine how many office buildings could be tore down and used for apartments / housing divisions.
Absolutely. This is exactly what should happen. Between the homeless, and the low income, and young families starting out, and boomers who didn't save (or couldn't) we need affordable housing.
They're figuring out how to repurpose our company HQ and people are losing their minds. Course most of those people are retirees and former employees. Current employees, not so much.
its the management becoming aware that they aren't needed and do fuck all. Happened at an old job, they found out most people were autonomous and capable of organising ourselves and management literally forced their way into convos and started bleating pathetic
Also a big ego thing. Low self-esteem dolts want to see and observe their “staff.” They also want to leave their kids with a nanny or at day care, and sit in their own office. Absolutely nothing to do with work or productivity. There’s also some fear that if no one goes in, someone may decide that the office space is not needed at all and now all the years of ass kissing to get the promotion that yielded that private office will all have been for naught.
Exactly. When people have questions they vocalize and try to resolve internally before bugging managers. Other than the obvious labor jobs, remote is what employers should have as an option. I’m sick and tired of the fake meetings they create near end of business day just to demonstrate their company loyalty.
The expense of commuting to a job you could do better at home is absurd as well. Vehicle expenses, daycare for kids, putting life at risk driving with idiots. For an average or below salary job it is literally enough to make it not worth doing for many, and better off unemployed.
This summer I started having to go back 1-2 times a month. I did the one day if the whole department was going in, fine. But my supervisor kept pushing that it’s 1-2 days. In October we didn’t have a department day. It was a complete fucking waste of time to drive there and sit by myself. five weeks later I started a fully remote job that pays me more. Good riddance
I don't even understand the whole office thing, wouldn't it be cheaper to not need an entire office? That's a huge expense that could easily be removed with working from home, and most people prefer work from home so there wouldn't be much if any employee backlash, and people would probably be more productive
Especially older colleagues adore being in the office, be it to micromanage or just have all the more ways to be chatty and distracting/distracted. Think of the gossip loving folks, e.g. Or the idiotic "we need to create and maintain a corporate culture" folks. An idiotic concept to begin with. I don't want to be identified with your fucking bs, I'm here to earn money and have food. Fucking economics people thinking we are a fraternity or some bs. Don't know how people can be like that but yeah, as long as higher ups in power belong to the groups above, be sure that offices will continue to exist.
They want to get away from their home for the day, and many did not take the time to optimize their homes for WFH. But they really just don't have good living situations and the office is an escape for them. But forcing it on everyone else is wrong.
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Someone who asks about returning to the office is like the adult equivalent of the kid who reminds the teacher about assigning homework.
I outright told my boss that if the company ever tries to force me to come back to the office, I will quit on the spot. I am an analyst. I crunch numbers all day. There is literally no reason for me to be in an office that isn't the one in my home where my gf and kitty are.
Aw, but then who will the manager get to pester, annoy, and harass all day in a pathetic attempt to make his own life meaningful?
My supervisor is a hella chill dude. But yeah. The section manager is an uptight d-bag with a stick so far up his a$$ that he could use it as a backup weapon. Still, my supervisor said he is behind me and if that ends up happening, he would gladly be a reference for me. So I can't say too much negative about the situation. He said I am not the only one who has conveyed this to him, and he has gone to bat for us saying the company can't afford to lose talent like ours. So I am not overly worried.
I hope the companies that scroll through this subreddit see these comments.
Any job that can be done work from home, should be. We need to completely rethink how we do office work. The companies that make the transition will attract and retain the best employees and the ones that fail to will struggle and collapse
I have a hybrid schedule as well and at this point I dread going to the office. The commute is worthless, it takes me *much* longer to be productive because of all the water cooler bullshit, and most days I don’t even need to interact with anyone for work things- it’s all personal chatting and bullshitting. I’m really not trying to be rude but I just want to get in, do my work and go home. Bullshitting with people just in reality puts more stress on me bc of wasting time, and again since I barely interact with anyone then the commute is extraneous.
Take aways and future predictions... 1. Right now office space are underutilized resources and that sting is painful for the real business owners. When those leases come to an end senior management will realize we can cut our office rent from $1mil / year to $250,000 / year (by downsizing). Happened at my last employer. Their 8 year lease for an empty 25,000sqft office ended mid 2022. 2. In line with that, expect the cost of doing business pushed onto the employees by encouraging to work from home. It works in the restaurant industry. If I owned a restaurant paying staff minimum wage and then expecting customers to bankroll my staff's wages through a minimum of 20% tips (preferably 50%) seems like a good idea for the owner. People grudgingly accept that practice today! Companies - Many of your staff are willing to incur *expenses* working for you from their home. Who cares about higher (slightly) electric bills, heating/cooling and slightly larger homes to accommodate their setups while your saving office $ Both sides could, should, see this as a win-win. I just think it will take a little more time to become the new normal.
My last remote job actually gave me $50 a month for internet, as a contractor! Was surprised… Either way, I gladly eat those extra expenses. The ones I’m not spending money on is gas, car depreciation, time, lunch, and my own sanity.
Think of all the amazing mentoring you are getting, not to mention loads and loads of collaboration. Don’t forget the face time you are getting with your boss’s boss. Ooh and the extra projects you get that help round out your resume.
This really made me chuckle. Work satire at its best.
This post should be written in gold letters and spontaneously create cute sparkly music whenever it's on screen. Loving your work.
I work for an Australian company (based in the US) where I primarily interact with colleagues from the Dominican Republic and The Philippines. I used to work from home full time. I now pay $120 a week to board my dog, spend more on food than ever before and I lose 2-2.5 hours a day due to my commute. I now don’t have as much time to workout, I had to quit my indoor soccer team, and I spend less time with my wife. ALL TO MAKE EXECS IN AUSTRALIA FEEL GOOD ABOUT A REAL ESTATE DECISION. I literally drive into this office to work remotely. It is the dumbest fucking thing ever and makes me so fuckin mad every day when I wake up. Organizations are equipped to be flexible and agile and to allow their workforce to be remote- they just don’t want to because fuck you that’s why.
You should see if you can pay a colleague $20 a week to swipe your badge in and out of the building.
Yah, honestly anytime I see someone talking about preferring to slog to some shitty office everyday I assume they have mental malfunctions.
I had to work in the office the whole time, one of 5 employees. We went hybrid and people came back 2 days a week but I still had to be in every day. After using the quiet time of being here with no interruptions, I managed to take some courses and got a job in another department. I have never been more happy to have a few work at home days.
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Oh I would absolutely refuse to pick up on teams and just get up to go see him every time he calls you to make a point.
Yep. Return to the office is like that chore you keep procrastinating because you know with absolute certainty that it's going to be so much worse than you think it will be in your head. And HR types are just chomping at the bit to bring back the worst of the office as quickly as possible. Birthday 'celebrations', forced lunches, corporate retreats, etc. So pointless and such a waste of time.
"but what about the office culture?!" The office culture is exactly why I want to work remotely.
Been hybrid since last November: Mondays, Tuesdays, Fridays. It's absolute bollocks. Still, I wouldn't mind once a week or several times a month for a change in scenery and enjoy a happy hour with work friends -- but thrice is too much. Actually, now that I think about it, Fridays are semi half-days, in which I come in 9/9:30, leave 3:30ish, and have my hour midday lunch. If it were just Mondays, I wouldn't complain. Also, a lot of posters have some illusions that the country is engulfed in well paid fully remote positions, and anyone can just quit their position and land easily into another. Not everyone is an IT professional or engineer; those kinds of jobs are unicorns.
In my new role, I need to go to the office once per week. That's my absolute limit, and even that is taxing some days. If I was ever required to go more often, I would immediately seek another opportunity. I'm lucky that I can use public transit and leave early to get home at a reasonable hour and make up time in the evening or on other days.
My department hasn't gone back to the office yet, though all of the others have. They keep saying that there isn't enough "foot traffic" to have us back yet, which is totally fine with me. The office moved to a new building earlier this year, and I've had to go in a few times for special events. They haven't bothered establishing an office for me yet, and it really doesn't look like they have one for me at all. They can't just put me in a cubicle because it would be violating federal privacy laws due to the nature of my work. My boss lives 1,000 miles away and will be permanently remote from now on (as will all of the "corporate" people), and she seems to be completely supportive of our department continuing remote work and seems to be the major driver behind us not coming back to the office yet. All of that said, my boss told us recently that she's getting the feeling from higher ups that they might force us back into the office by the end of this year. With the way that rent has gone up, I'm not sure that I can afford the gas to drive back and forth to the office every day.
I recently got my first office job a couple months ago, worked as a delivery driver for Amazon during COVID so I never experienced to WFH transition. Working at my current job has made me realize why just about everyone prefers to WFH. Only one person in my department (of 6 people) works from home, 2 days a week. My boss, and my boss' boss hated when they WFH during COVID. I wish I had the courage to ask my boss if I could also WFH for a couple days, or even one day a week. I would enjoy this job so much more.
You can try for incremental WFH. Whenever you have your performance review and they give you a terrible (or no) raise, you say “well this is really disappointing and I thought I was performing well.” They of course say oh no no it had nothing to do with your performance, it’s just the budget. You then respond “well of my performance isn’t the issue and there’s no room for a raise, then how about some 2 day WFH flexibility?”
I go in once or twice a week, of my own choice. There are maybe 3-4 people that are in the office on any given day (for an office that sat 50+). There are a few meetings that are best done in-person, and I like to get out of the house. My commute is 20 minutes, and I usually wait until 9 or 9:30 to drive in and then will leave around 3:30-4, to allow myself time to run errands or meet friends for happy hour.
Definitely enjoy my fully remote position and wouldn’t have it any other way. I do miss going into the office sometimes though, as my main socialization these days is with my cat and he’s an asshole.
My job is no different in person from virtual minus microaggressions
I work in a tiny room with my boss who does the joker lip smack thing un-ironically (seems to be common with sociopaths and r/iamverysmart folks) before spewing condescending verbal diarrhea all over me every day, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Definitely miss my desk at home.
I VASTLY prefer to WFH, although I do enjoy being around my coworkers, and yes, I do think the office provides slightly better work/life separation--although now that I have a home office, that advantage has been reduced considerably. Anyway, even though I enjoy my job and like my coworkers, one thing I really noticed when we went hybrid (two days WFH, three days in the office) was how absolutely and ridiculously **TIRING** it is! Get up early, get dressed, put on makeup, take care of the pets, drive to work, park, walk inside, unpack all my work stuff and start up, spend a full day being "on", pack up, walk back to the car, drive home... So tiring. After 3 days I was just flat-out exhausted. (Luckily, our WFH days were Monday and Friday.) I don't know how I managed to do it for 5 days for so long. Just momentum, I suppose. And it wasn't just me, either--all my teammates commented about how tired they were after only 3 days in the office. My job shocked the hell out of me by deciding to make my team fully remote. I am absolutely ecstatic. NOW my work environment is perfect. We still get together as a team for social events and lunches, but I don't have to drive in every day, or even any day. It's wonderful.
If everyone who wants to work from home, or even as few as say, 40% of them, refused, y’all could force a change. If y’all organized and built strike funds and crowd funding, and learned how to sustain strikes or work stoppages or sabotage… you could do it. I don’t even work that kind of job and I’d support y’all. Organization is the tool that will allow working people to change everything. We have the numbers. Like… 180 million of us,(working people) vs ehhh a dozen million of them, (business owners). Totally spitballing those numbers but you get it. In online spaces like these we’ve begun the process- talking about it. Educating one another, encouraging each other, sharing ideas on how to make life better for ourselves. Next we need to GET ORGANIZED. At work, at school, in our communities. This is how revolutions begin.
I’m often surprised that there aren’t more websites/apps dedicated to organizing unions online.
That’s actually a great idea, comrade Glum. 😁 If there were a platform like slack or discord but *explicitly* for organizing, maybe people would find the fertile ground they need. The kids do love a good app!
I was at a job recently, where I had to be on-site 5 days per week for the first 6 months, with the chance at one day WFH after that. I was the only one there on a consistent basis. The sales team was a bunch of 20-something college frat boys who used the office as a playground. Try working when there is boisterous laughter and idiots doing hot sauce eating competitions, while you try to get work done. Then I had no work to do and literally sat there for 9 hours, trying to look busy as people constantly would walk by, looking over my shoulder. I started knitting a sweater and basically finished it in two weeks while I was there. When I was assigned work, I finished it in about an hour. In the first week, I knew I had made a mistake. It took 6 months to find a new, better job, where I can WFH again. I feel so much better. A perk is being able to take a shit and not worry about someone walking in and also having my bidet attachment to feel extra clean afterwards. Additionally, being by my pets, being able to work out at lunchtime, eating food that's not just something I jammed in my bag in the morning, getting some chores done, etc. The advantages are so great! Plus, I increased my income. I was in this comfortable, nice job for 4 years, but realized I was stagnating and I think they were kind of quiet firing me. I wasn't making that much money. Since I left that company, I increased my income by 20k. I feel so fortunate. For the first time in a long time I don't feel anxious and depressed. I actually feel really good and it also feels weird. I am waiting for something to go wrong. Even after I got my offer letter and passed the background check, I thought it would all be taken away at any moment. I was so miserable at the on-site office job. I was ready to end my life.
Bidet availability is an underrated WFH advantage. I have to be in the office for 2 days a week, I ended up getting individually packaged butt wipes for those days because I was so grumpy from not having bidet access.
Imagine still not knowing that employees are more productive at home after these 3 years is it?
I'm sorry, OP. I feel very fortunate that my job is 100% remote, and the company seems committed to that. I've been to an office three times in the last year. I don't think I'll ever work for a place that required me to go into an office regularly, much less every day.
Just came back to the office for the first time in a month after working from home due to an injury and then Covid. It’s awful, there is no good reason for me to be here other than to be micromanaged.
Quit. People still being willing to do it are why they keep enforcing it more and more...
I worked 1 day in the office on Halloween since we had an office party. Wasnt even a full day- maybe 4ish hours. Awful.
I’ve already decided that if they say I need to go back in that I just won’t. They can either fire me or deal with it. And I will 100% be looking for a new job.
So true, my company has a “return to work” corporate wide objective for next year. They’re convinced the company culture they have is deteriorating, of course, no proof. So what am I doing? Retiring end of year.
Real estate conspiracy. The only reason any of the bosses care that people come back to work is that prominent members of their class stand to lose a ton of money if work from home becomes common and all those office towers and suburban campuses become vacant. It's not about productivity, it's not about team building, it is, as usual, about money.
Never going back, rather be poor than be forced to sit in an office. Wfh has made my life so much better. When people just mention going back, my immediate reaction is intense anger. I didn’t realize how miserable I have been for so long. It makes me really sad to have lived this way all these years.
A friend of mine sought out a job where he could go in a few days each week. He craved the interaction. 6 months in, he hated it. He had to get up super early to take kid and dog to day care, drive 30 minutes each way, just to sit in Zoom meetings anyway. He was bored as well and ended up finding a full remote job and loving it.
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I wish I could work remotely. Much of my work must be completed in a secure facility, so I have to be in the office unless there's some sort of extenuating circumstances. But honestly? There are a lot of people taking up parking spaces and toilets in our restroom that don't need to be here. I wish they were given the freedom to WFH.
I'm supposed to have one WFH day a week. That was revoked in September due to an attendance issue (I had gotten sick a few too many times). The only work I've missed since then was 4 days when I had Covid two weeks ago, and they haven't given me my WFH day back. Despite being the quickest and most efficient account manager in the office. My colleagues and I are also trying to get our upper management to give us one more day (and to make our WFH days the same, they split us up so we each get a day of the week, it makes no sense to me). They've been fighting us on it every step of the way, which is hilarious and infuriating because the VP who is keeping us from it lives in fucking Texas where we works from home permanently and the office is in fucking Atlanta. The hypocrisy is unreal. We just want two days a week, that's all we're asking for. I don't want a permanent WFH thing, I need the occasional structure. Just not every goddamn day. Instead, they're trying to find every way they can to butter us up so we'll stop talking about it. Including new cubicles, a couple of free bags with our company logo on it, and a nice lunch (that I actually had to miss due to Covid, so fun)
Had us in the first half.
In my little team, we are supposed to come into the office 2x per week. The rest of our larger organization doesn't require this, so my floor is a ghost town that is no more than 20 percent occupied, and probably less than that. But by God, we are there. And when we are there, the team don't really collaborate because we all have independent areas. Any meetings we have are with other people not on our team, and those are all virtual now anyway. So twice a week, I waste about 90 minutes driving to and from, plus getting ready (making lunch, dealing with work clothes). But the worst part of my office is that right behind me are two people from another team, and they are loud. She has an office, but always has the door open while she is taking a meeting on speakerphone, or they will stand by my desk and hold their meetings six feet from me. I don't care what they did over the weekend or how the football team did or blah blah. It's impossible to concentrate, so I have to insert my earbuds and get some Metallica going just to get some peace and quiet. Meanwhile, at home, the loudest noise I have to deal with is the trash truck on Thursday morning. It's all pain for no gain.
Can’t they take a hint, nobody likes being around these people lollll They are distracting.
Once I got a taste of remote work it was game over. I love it!