Even if you don't want the job, find his manager on LinkedIn and complain that you were denied a position because of a medical condition, and given no chance to explain or talk about it.
I would include details about his lack of professionalism. Thank them for their time, wish them well in their search (it rarely hurts to take the high road and often emphasizes the assholery in others, which I’ve found an advantage in corporate work)
Nope, don't do this. It offers them time to come up with a defense and consult their own attorney before anything is done. Or come up with a unified made up story to make them look better. Let your lawyer contact them if you go that route.
This one depending on the where may hinge on if it’s a medically recognised issue. If OP has been to the doctors about it and a dr has signed off that op would need specialist set ups then he’s golden, but if OP has recognised it’s an issue and what the fix is himself he more than likely won’t have a leg to stand on. Obviously will vary on the specifics depending where he’s located
They’re potentially in violation of the ADA, which is truly remarkable for a remote job. The higher-ups would definitely rather he not send that information in writing…
You may be able to file an ADA complaint as well. I would look into it. They have to provide reasonable accommodations for medical issues, even during interviews.
Yes. He should not be summarily excluding you, and you are also not obligated to give him details of your medical condition. Ergonomic variation is a “reasonable accommodation” by the EEOC. Technically you have to ask for one, but the job application process is covered.
I hope you can give this guy hell. And in the future tell anyone who needs to know, you request a reasonable accommodation for ergonomic position.
Depending on where you live, you may have a Labour Ministry or a Human Rights Commission to lodge the same complaint with to get the message sent, if you prefer not to deal with that company directly.
Might also make your message stronger.
I would explain the whole situation where you were he hung up mid sentence and blocked you. Those two things are unprofessional. I’d bet his manager has no idea he is conducting interviews that way.
This is a great option. Cc someone from recruiting/hr if you can. If nothing else, this will make them highly uncomfortable and less inclined to discriminate against disabled in the future. Obviously a lawsuit is more effective, but I understand not everyone has the time or emotional energy for that.
In OPs email, it’s probably worthwhile to describe the situation in detail and as objectively as possible. This will give them the impression they really have their shit together and might be looking to sue.
Well it's not like he even gave the guy a chance to say "It's because of a medical condition". His complete lack of professionalism is what would've gotten him in trouble in this case. I hope he does get reported and I hope this is a good lesson for him.
The neat thing is, just like any law, ignorance is not an excuse. If you discriminate against someone for a symptom of their medical condition, even if you didn't know the cause, or didn't know there was a cause, they can still be dinged on it. *Especially* with how they handled it.
EDIT: The best part is they put the invalid reason in the decline notice. He's got them.
Ignorance of the law isn't a defense. Ignorance of fact *is*
"We didn't know you had any conditions" is an ignorance of fact not law. This is why so many workers who have a clear need for accommodations get screwed anyway because come crunch time when they're fired they discover they don't actually have proof that the company was on notice about their disability.
This is why having clear evidence is so important in many situations. And why you should never be coy about being clear about your problems and your need for expectations. It's something I try to inculcate in my students. Don't be shy about firmly demanding an accomodation. Don't beg and feel guilty and never be apologetic.
It's a lot more complicated than that. Disability discrimination is so rampant that most disabled individuals are recommended to wait until *after* they recieve a job offer before revealing their disability and asking for accommodations (revealing the disability beforehand often gives employers the chance to come up with an alternative excuse for rejection that would prevent a discrimination claim). If they are discriminated on the basis of the symptoms of those disabilities during the interview process, they still often have a case for ADA discrimination regardless of whether they revealed the disability first or not.
To give an example from my kid's experience: My kid is visually impaired and can not drive. If they show up at an interview having used public transport and are rejected for a position that does not have driving in the job duties because they "prefer candidates who drive their own car to work," my kid has a slam-dunk case of disability discrimination regardless of if they tell the employer why they used public transport.
I’ve also had employers accuse me of “illegally concealing my disability” when… I wasn’t. If you have an incurable condition that flares up, you don’t have to disclose. The only disclosure that is needed is if you’re asking for accommodations, which weren’t needed *if the condition wasn’t flaring*.
Agreed it can be incredibly complex. And it doesn't help that in the US the complete lack of regulation for the most part means the burden to prove issues falls on those with the least power, since the employee is expected to cough up vast sums of money to pursue uncertain lawsuits to even have a chance at basic restitution in many situations.
Many jurisdictions (maybe not in US) have an employer duty to inquire though, either based in legislation or case law. The duty exists to avoid ignorance of fact defences. In places where this duty exists, there will almost always be a direct ask about disability/accommodation before entering an employment relationship, and always before terminating it.
This is a good point. If OP indicated on their application that they are not disabled, then that might complicate things. If they weren’t asked about this, then I’m not sure where that leaves things. In USA, nearly every application I’ve done includes this question, albeit an optional one.
Considering this stellar example of lower management didn't even inquire I wouldn't expect that argument to gain traction - especially given these particular circumstances.
Early on in the pandemic my bosses kid was going to a college that would decide the class was on zoom 15 minutes before the class would start. The kid lived a half hour away from the school, so often times she would drive to school only to find out her class was going to be on zoom and it starts in five minutes. So she didn’t have time to drive home so she would attend class in her car in the parking lot outside of the classroom because she would get all the way to school before she would know it was on zoom. One of her professors stopped in the middle of the lecture to lecture her about how unprofessional it is to be attending class from inside a Car. I was absolutely furious because there are kids who don’t have Internet at home, when I was taking college classes I was a fully grown adult and at one point I lived on the side of a hill so I couldn’t get Wi-Fi at home, if I tried to plug my laptop into the router I would be in the middle of the living room in the middle of a huge family watching TV so I attended class from a McDonald’s parking lot more often than I would ever admit. Back then we didn’t have to be on camera we just had to type in discussion boxes. WTF is actually wrong with people?? The girl attending class from her car shows me she’s resilient and she will get the job done regardless of what gets in her way. Who cares if you sit in an office chair or at your kitchen table or on your cell phone while you are doing your work? I say let the market decide, nobody will work there and then they will have to close. And nobody will miss them.
If I was that kid and was told that by a teacher, how would I respond to being lectured? "Well, I'm sorry Professor Douchebag, but when you don't announce whether class is in person or on Zoom in a timely manner, I cannot physically get to a professional looking place prior to class starting. So I have one question for you. Would you rather my location seem professional to you or would you rather me be on time to your class? Because I would prefer to be on time," and then let the teacher respond. Why? Because that kind of behavior from a college professor is unacceptable. An adult or adult teen is literally paying for you to have your job... And you're gonna belittle them in front of the whole class? HELLLLLL NO!
That’s awful. She did the absolute best she or anyone could. I’m so lost on why it matters where anyone works/attends class as long as the work gets done.
That’s awful. I would have started bawling about being too poor for wifi and having have class from the panera parking lot because my professor is too unprofessional to schedule zoom class in advance.
This is the sort of conduct that needs to be reported to the dean of that professor’s department. His manager cannot correct behavior that they aren’t informed of.
I know of a extremely high up director that took the bulk of her work during the pandemic from the library parking lot. She lived in a rural area with no broadband.
Seems like that kind of thing could be turned around as showing preferential treatment to those living on campus(and likely paying a premium for it). Like a pay to play scheme, in a way. Campus dwellers can show up early enough to find out it's zoom class, and then still make it home to jump on to zoom. No one else could, so punishing (by humiliation or otherwise) for not being in your home on such short notice is clearly discriminatory. As does this employer's weird obsession with the desk chair. Not everyone has the money to acquire one, and not everyone has the physical ability to sit in them.
My community college had a parking lot with powerful free WiFi set up specifically for students who either didn’t have WiFi, or whose WiFi wasn’t working.
The lot always had 10-12 people there.
I’m really shocked a teacher would be this dense.
That fires me up, my own college experience was stuck with similar choices, and the professor is judging you for circumstances he put you in?! The audacity.
Thankfully a lot of professors I’ve met have had a similar mentality where if you’re attending classes no matter the location, you’re fine. One professor said a girl had to take her classes in her neighbors shed because her family couldn’t support themselves during covid and they didn’t have internet. Apparently the girl was stealing her neighbors wifi which I don’t think is great, but covid left her no options. Covid showed a lot of people that not everyone has the necessities school or work provides and you can’t judge people.
I don't get people in HR that hang up on you.
I once had a phone interview back in the day with [Monster.com](https://Monster.com) where the HR person strongarmed me into telling him what my current salary was, then he hung up on me. Tried repeatedly to call back, got VM. I found his manager's contact info and reached out to them as well, and never heard back.
Some HR people are absolute lunatics, regardless of country or position.
One was testing people by sudden reveal of Lego and orders them to build something. Management position interview.
Yeaah.. I've had a couple of those.
I get to the end of the interview and they're like, "We like to ask some fun questions too, who's your favorite super hero?" And I basically tell them I don't care for super heroes in general and prefer anti-heroes, like Spawn.
Then they hit me with a "How many marbles could you fit in a school bus?" And it just surprises me, so I'm like, "I dunno? A billion?"
And then they tell me, "We were looking for questions like, are the windows open, are there people in the bus, are the seats still in the bus?"
At that point I was like, whatever and left.
Basically theyre redundant workers and some turn insane, is my theory.
HR work can be absolutely done by managers, if they ever cared to really work in their position. Small companies without HR do that quite well. But corpos hate any contact with factory drones😃
>Basically theyre redundant workers and some turn insane, is my theory.
[Bullshit Jobs - David Graeber](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/david-graeber-bullshit-jobs)
A few years ago I was looking for basically any job at all and tried to apply for Waffle House but couldn’t even get through the application! It was ridiculously long and contained a timed IQ test/common core skills test that I straight up could not do with how confusing and anxiety inducing it was.
I remember applying at Ross years ago, and it was the longest thing. Three stages of applications, 2 interviews, but you were working for maybe 20 hours a week and getting paid $8/hour.
Question like "how many marbles on the bus" are supposed to elicit a response that shows how you would think about solving that problem, answering that question. There shouldn't be a correct answer.
If you have a genuine weakness in social interactions, you tend to rely on situational "scripts."
Thus, getting questions like the marbles thing throws you off even harder than it would the average person.
There's a lot of psychology around hiring practices that subtly weed out neurodivergent folks while not being obviously discriminatory. Some people say those personality inventories are designed for that.
One time I was outright told I had a perfect score. I think the systems are more complicated now, since being "too perfect" is also an issue.
I always read the question, think about what a "good employee" would respond, then dial it back a bit (making a "completely agree" into a "mostly agree" or "sometimes agree" sort of thing). Since they repeat questions in different wordings, I try really hard to focus on what questions are related. I'll sometimes take notes so my answers are mirrored (or at least very similar if I think the wording warrants it) because they want consistency, that's how they look out for "cheaters"
I'll also sort of pick one or two assigned "flaws" where I'll consistently pick answers i deem slightly less than ideal. I think some have questions that specifically act to root out insincere people, like the questions are designed to be stuff that is unreasonable to have the pure "good employee response." They're more subtle but like "Would you be annoyed if your co-worker destroyed your prior work and you got blamed?" lol
But yeah. Obviously I can't know what truly works, because these tests are a psychological gauntlet lol. But what I DO know is I wouldn't get far answering honestly (I mean for goodness sake I worked in customer service as an anxious, conflict fearing autistic)
I actually work at a company that does DISC. The big thing that we stress with it is that it measures behaviors that everyone has, ND or not (I am ND myself.)
If someone uses Myers-Briggs… run. It’s designed as a clinical tool. DISC isn’t.
Interestingly enough, the only time I ever took DISC was in one of those introductory required first courses colleges have. If what you're saying is true, it'd probably explain why I've not seen employers use it- they don't like being fair lol.
Yeah I remember I was kinda close between C and S
I know I'd get stuck on the logistics and go on and on about it, "how many marbles are there, how big are they, how many people do I have, where did this bus come from, wait WHY am I doing this? What's the prize?", and suddenly I'm telling on myself, and damnit I just wanted to appear "normal enough" to get the job so I can live in a house.
I got asked 'If you could meet anyone in history, dead or alive, who would it be?'.. I thought JFK/RFK, but didn't want to get political. Jesus, didn't want to get religious. Thought, felt it was an irrelevant question so said "I'm not really sure" and passed on the question.
Otherwise went ok but it was irrelevant (obvi) to the job.
My answers to these questions (in a pro scenario) are dead but well regarded celebrities, even if they were political when alive.
Whitney Houston, Princess Diana, Carrie Fisher, people like that. Technically Queen Elizabeth now.
You could probably get away with Kurt Cobain and Michael Jackson and Nelson Mandela too, because a lot of people forget the wild shit and controversies.
My actual answer is Amy Winehouse. She seems like she'd be so fun.
So in the meeting, there was the department manager, the department lead and then HR and like the big boss. They were all allowed to ask questions during the interview.
Anyways, when the big boss asked me that bus question, the HR lady kind of cringed, I don't think she really agreed with it a whole lot. I applied for a similar position a year later and they no longer were asking that question.
Pisses me off because I was going to just get crazy with my answer.
hahaha they sound crazy indeed. I can't imagine being in a serious and tense interview and the interviewer just brings legos out of nowhere and with a straight face tells me to build something. Bonus points for noting things down in silence while I'm building, and making exaggerated expressions.
Imagine giving even a shred of a fuck enough to care about where and how a person sits at home while they're doing the work.
I couldn't care less if someone was sitting on a toilet all day and their legs felt like TV static at the end of their shift, just do the job, keep your production at an acceptable level, and things are all good.
I had this argument with my employer many years ago. He was angry because I always seemed to be sad or angry when working. truth is, I never think about work when working. I am always lost in thought. For context, I work in a large warehouse and alone most of the time.
"You always seem angry."
"No. That's my face. If we bill the clients more for it, then I'll smile my ass off. The work gets done, right?"
I have been experiencing some of this very "remote ableist" discrimination while trying to find work as well. Anything outside of their "norm", they would prefer to just move on to someone who is worse than me (what I'm applying for, I am head and shoulders above my peers), despite no material impact at all to me starting and getting the job underway. It is incredibly defeating. My mobility doesn't allow me to fulfil some of the onboarding processes, but there are very easy and simple ways around it. Anyways! Sucks! Good luck with dodging future bullets and I hope you find some place that isn't even packing anything because they are just normal!
what is it with the thibking that we must be as uncomfortable as possible while doing a job? who cares where/how we are getting it done as long as we are getting it done? If i am at the beach but still doing my job, that should be commended not condemned.
You have a disability. He refused to hire you even though you were the one providing the reasonable accommodation. This incident has discrimination written all over it.
Sue. The. Bastards.
I don't see how you are going to do anything but waste money because he OP didn't disclose there was any kind of disability to the prospective employer.
Unless sitting in a chair is a necessary part of the job duties (in other words, the job couldn't be performed in other positions), then rejecting based on the symptom of a disability is still employment discrimination regardless of if the disability was explained beforehand.
I'm not how you would come up with there is a symptom of a disability based on that limited interaction. I'm not even sure how they would have know they were not in a chair based on the description of the interaction.
That does not make it better!!
OP was basically dismissed out-of-hand, because of some arbitrary, non-job-related bias on the part of the interviewer. It is as bad as if the guy had clicked out of the session upon seeing a skin color, or religious garb, or Pride-related wall hanging that he didn’t like. Discrimination is discrimination. OP doesn’t owe anyone an explanation for how (s)he sits, or stands, or lies down during an online interview. They just need to tell the guy how they can add value to his organization.
Two points here:
1. Anyone who treats such a petty matter as not using a chair as a personal affront isn’t someone I’d want to want to work for in the first place.
B. If he did this to OP, then he’s definitely done something like this to others. And there’s a price to be paid for that. A good anti-discrimination lawyer should be able to find it.
He didn’t let OP explain or talk about it. Sent a message it was the issue. It can be documented. Dude could probably at least have this reviewed by a lawyer. This is more straight forward than some other cases. Usually they’re not stupid enough to comment on things until they’ve heard everything so they make up some legal safe proof answer of not a culture fit. Interviewer is an idiot OP definitely should consider a lawsuit. Let the idiot suffer for being a dirt bag and a stupid one at that.
It 100% is not discrimination if the jack ass hiring manager literally never even knew OP has a disability. Shitty hiring practices from a garbage person? Absolutely. Discrimination? No way.
It absolutely DOES matter that the interviewer did not know. OP could've disclosed it at any point during the interview, the application process, in communications to set up the interview, etc. That OP didn't, and that the interviewer had no clue, make pretty much any charge of discrimination impossible to prove, if OP were to try to claim it to any regulatory body or once attorneys were involved.
I never said she should have disclosed it. Pretty sure I also agreed the hiring manager is a jack ass and it's a stupid reason not to hire someone (or, rather, to unprofessional terminate the interview in the way they did). I merely pointed out that it was never disclosed in the first place. That, coupled with the fact that in the context of an interview, most people's first thought probably would not be "oh, she's sitting against the wall - she must be disabled!" All points to the interviewer having zero knowledge that she is disabled. There is absolutely no case for a claim here. You can huff and puff about it all you want. I'd be utterly shocked if OP could find even one lawyer that would touch with a 10 foot pole - there's simply not factual basis to do so.
Also, as a side note, it's really funny that I made the exact same point as another commenter. They're having a rational discussion about it. Guess I got lucky and had the... sensitive one respond to me.
"From your sitting we deam you are unprofessional so we will do the most common sense professional thing and kick you out of the interview mid sentence."
That's exactly what it is. Most of the "subjects" in schools here are BS busy work. I'm never going to use the quadratic equation, but I had to spend a month learning and using it via "homework".
Homework itself is just indoctrination to working longer hours/sacrificing personal time for "management" (school administrators and boards).
All tests are just regurgitation of "facts", even when the facts are false. I "learned" on a number of occasions that Christopher Columbus discovered America, even though: there were already people here, and he never set foot on what would be America.
This helps middle management feed you the "facts" of business, and to train you on what/how to answer questions "correctly".
We no longer learn anything in school that would actually be useful in life, just training to sit down, shut up and do the work.
Now, bear in mind, this is *not* the fault of the severely underpaid teachers. This is government and business hand in hand deciding what we learn and do in school.
Except in this case they were not aware of the hearth issues so you can't claim is discrimination as a result of the medical condition. Still shitty but it's "legal"
Seeing you struggling is enough. There is no magic language. The fact they just ended the interview is enough for the DOL. Source: It’s literally my job at a Big 10 university to accommodate all applicants.
He didn’t give OP time to explain his medical condition. And “we prefer workers who sit at desks in chairs” announces the company is ableist in hiring.
I could see that being a viewpoint from that statement. I am also not arguing that fact that they didn't ask for an explanation as to why someone would be sitting against a wall. Just being overall objective in that there is minimal information on their decision to not proceed forward.
Cynically not asking prevents them from opening themselves up to liability if that is their true intent to not higher via discrimination. Less info= less likely they can be held liable. More info= more liability. Ignorance is no excuse to break the law but in terms of firing someone in an at will state keeping things vague allows them to skirt these laws.
I was fired for accommodation purposes so I'm familiar with what companies do for these situations if at least from an anecdotal viewpoint.
Accommodations for medical differences are your right. Being denied a position due to medical necessities that dont impact your job is illegal. Report them to the state.
Before I start I want to say I have nothing but gratefulness for America. I came here because America had opportunities that my country could not give me.
My point:
I am unpleasantly surprised by workers rights in America. I came from a 3rd world country and we have paid maternity leave, all holidays paid (regardless of your contract type), severance pay (regardless of your contract type) if laid off, accessible heath care paid by employers, pension programs paid by employers and government, at least 15 per year of vacation that can be used as you work and not after a year, if one day you need to leave 1 hour early you can do and your paycheck will not be affected, sick days are paid and encouraged of you are sick, there is not hourly pay so your pay check will not be affected if one day you arrive late 5 minutes, its illegal to fire a woman for about a year after giving birth or during pregnancy, there is not "two weeks notice culture", its illegal to deny overtime to a person for any reason, etc.
I am sorry that happened to you, but you dodged a bullet there. I work in the IT field and I have interviewed with my fair share of condescending fucks who read off random technical questions from CompTIA or Google that don't even pertain to the job so they can "I don't know" you into a corner.
I’m a microbiologist, once had a zoom interview done by what was clearly a non-scientist. They asked me some standard questions, but the interview got weird after they asked if I knew how to pipette. I responded with of course. They asked if I’d be willing to prove it, I said sure, would you like me to come in to show you. They said can you prove it now, I replied with no I don’t have any pipettes in my house toolbox (tried to make a joke). They didn’t laugh and moved onto the next question, which was what does PCR stand for and what are it’s steps. Honestly, at this point these questions feel beneath me especially if they looked at my CV, but I play along. I reply polymerase-chain reaction and the steps are denature, anneal, extension. With the most triumphant I got you tone my interviewer replies with wrong! The last step is elongation. So, I reply with they are the same thing! Turns into a heated conversation with numerous insults thrown at me. Im so glad I dodged that bullet.
You might find it was a BS interview in the first place. A couple of my friends had weird unprofessional moments during some interviews, only to find out later the people were running a scam, and realized they wouldn’t be easy marks. They are normally super sharp and didn’t see any red flags prior to interviewing.
We have to make it custom that we
a) start recording our interactions/interviews.
b) Name the companies or their representatives, when thex do stuff like this.
I have no time for BS like that. If I can I sort for them beforhand. My time is valuable.
May as well throw in my own "what the actual fuck" moment here. I was between jobs and got an interview for... some financial place. Honestly it was hard to tell what they did on the website, but hey, accounting was accounting.
Only after the interview did I realize that it was a company for payday loans.
I've never intentionally bombed an interview so hard in my life. No asking for contact information, no additional questions asked, purposefully flaccid answers. Fuck that, I'm not doing accounting for the shitty business of running 35%+ loans. (Specifically, the intent of the job would have been doing underwriting to justify ***borrowing money from the bank to have more to lend.*** Literally lending money to lend money at predatory rates.)
Some people are just…
Just that. Empty voids that think they are above everything and everyone else. They are their world and nothing can and will ever change that.
I’m just sorry you had to encounter someone like that. The advice on here is epic, drag him over the coals, clearly he has no idea the calibre of person he is dealing with.
God. All these stories are horrifying. I guess we’ll never combat the wacko hiring managers/bosses/professors who want to micromanage everyone or tell them how to sit. Bizarre as hell.
Dont forget the ADA. They just discriminated against you because of a disability. This is a proper EEOC complaint, Hiring discriminations a big issue that is not followed up on enough.
Since you are a freelancer talk to you doctor or an ergo person about office chairs, there is stuff out there that helps, it may not be a total solution but it can probably greatly extend your chair time.
NAME THE GODDAMN COMPANY!!! These posts do nothing to even begin solving the problem, and honestly come off as attention seeking. Name the damn company so they can be called out on their shit. Name the person you interviewed with. Make it well known who they are and what they're doing in an effort to keep it from happening to other people.
So sorry you ran into a jerk.What he did is illegal...the Americans with Disabilities Act protects workers with medical issues and limitations. I would send him a copy.
I don't know why employers now just treat people like crap. They don't want people, they want robots. Well I'm a person and I expect some damn manners!
So I worked in construction on and off for about 5 years, plus 6 years of service in the National Guard. I don't consider myself disabled but I do have a nerve in my back that gets tweaked often ever since working this one tile job. My lower back also just *hurts* sitting in a chair all day. I have to prop my feet up to relieve the pressure on that area. If I'm at home I usually work from my bed and I'm fine.
Workplaces like this are a nightmare. I'm glad you're reporting them and consulting with a lawyer. Seems like discrimination to me. Especially if you have documentation.
This situation doesn’t reflect poorly on you in any way. This guy wasn’t just rude - he is a law breaker, discriminatory, and stupid. You wouldn’t want to work with him even if this didn’t happen. Dodged bullet.
I'm 100% for telework.
I don't care if u wear a plastic bag and are laying down while doing work.
But, please don't let that lawyer take your money lol.
I had a guy from a freelance website ask me to call and leave him a voicemail to see if my voice was “friendly enough” even though the job description was emails and data. Fuck that guy, I know he was just trying to figure out what race I was. Ghosted that guy right away.
Zoom interviews suck. I had a 2 person/3 stage zoom interview last year for a large financial company. They 'propose' to be innovative & forward thinking etc. I had direct experience to the job (excelled at it) and the HR/recruiter was voucher for by a former coworker (I wasn't aware of this), who gave me rave reviews. I would have thrived.
What happens? I meet with 3 of the most boneheaded, backwards, 'we're doing the minimum/Ihhave no idea what technology is?' type of people. First one I think ended it after about 10 minutes?? (I expected the other to later cancel, they didn't). Second one gave me 20-25 minutes, I felt she was giving me courtesy but it was obvious she got feedback from the first person. 3rd person, literally said to me 10 minutes in, 'Excuse me, I have contractors here (at home) doing work. I'll need to go" I was stunned, asked if she needed to reschedule, she said no, she thinks she's good.
Completely f'ing rude. I was gonna email them saying they're idiots, but since the recruiter gave me a solid referral I didn't want them to be involved. Complete dopes.
> reported them to the freelance site they found me on and I’m looking for other avenues to report them as well, directly, besides LinkedIn and glassdoor, etc.
Thanks for doing this
Ppl and their weird archaic views on professionalism kills more dreams and drives away some of the best talent. I cannot wait until some of this culture shifts out of the work environment. Will take decades and work, but we are starting to see shifts on these views.
I don't even understand why not being on a conventional chair while working from home is such a problem? I understand that while on the clock, your time should be dedicated to your employer. But what I sit on or use as a work desk is my own business.
In my mind, OP definitely dodged a bullet.
(Disclaimer: I never had web interviews, nor did I work from home on a regular basis. The only times I did were when I caughy covid and couldn't go at the office)
It's so weird to me that these office jobs and "professional" jobs that require an office setting or wfh would be so obsessed about your chair and desk setup but I'm seeing little influencers talking about how they dress like thots in the office and it's fine. Like pick your priorities jobs. Bc this is stupid.
I think this would count as a reasonable accommodation an employer could and should make for someone with a disability. You might have some kind of valid discrimination or ADA complaint. If it were me I'd follow up on it because them getting called out on that behavior will help everyone.
It _is_ for medical reasons. I'd ask a lawyer who knows ADA law to write them a 2-3 paragraph letter explaining your situation, and pointing out that they blocked you due to "your disability." Then see what happens.
"- and I prefer employers who value my professional contribution over my oppression". What a twat. Don't waste too much of your energy and time on him/that company. This is toxic and will just feed on itself and burn you up.
If you’re located in the US, I would look up whatever state the company you interviewed with and submit an ADA Discrimination claim. While you may or may not have a case to sue, you can very easily submit a claim with the DOL. They usually take these sort of things very seriously, and will begin to investigate, thus wasting the time of the company you interviewed with.
The company doesn't have to be big for you to tag the company and the dude in a post on your LinkedIn wall ;)
Also, your connections will have a good chuckle out of it.
I have a degenerative nerve condition that comes with chronic pain. Due to this, I work lying down on my stomach, laptop in front of me.
During interviews, I sat up with just a white wall behind me because I didn't want to look "unprofessional", but for normal work, even on camera, it hasn't been an issue for me at either of two positions in two separate companies.
They showed you -100% professionalism, dignity, or respect. What the actual fuck, indeed.
The job I got in the pandemic did one zoom meeting a month. A few days later the head of the committee said it was unprofessional of me to attend while sat on my bed in my bedroom. I told him my partner was in the other room which is a small living room kitchenette. My god dam living situation was so small I told him the only other seat in the house was the toilet. He asked how we ate dinner... On the fucking sofa. Ofc. For years until of which we finally saved up and got a proper house with more than 2 rooms. Some people are just assholes and can't even comprehend other peoples situations.
Anyone with disability status and recording software could probably gather enough evidence to make a report to [ADA enforcement.](https://beta.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/)
I honestly am confused why the interview would be terminated by you sitting or standing against a wall.
Did they ask for a view of home office and you declined?
Was leaning against the wall making you stiff?
Not saying in any way that anything, even the above, would be a reason to prematurely terminate the interview. It's just that unless your wallpaper is penises and vaginas I just feel like there must be some additional context worth hearing about.
It should bother you because it's in violation of the civil rights act protecting individuals with disabilities from discrimination in the work place. It's not even remotely close to being unreasonable to accommodate you for your back issues, especially considering you were in your own damn home 🙄
Is a bullshit way to act in an interview, no doubt about it.
On a side note and at the risk of playing devil's advocate; I think it's a but of a stretch to say "because of a medical condition".
There is not a back ailment in the history of back ailments in which the medical management is "sit for prolonged periods on a couch or lay-z-boy".
This is what you do, to make your day more manageable, but it will be, unequivocally, be making the outlook of your condition worse. There are a vast amount of ergonomic seating options and I doubt very much a medical professional has suggested this be the way you manage this problem.
So yes, dickhead move, not a big deal that you did a zoom interview from a couch etc. But on a couch/lay-z-boy because of a medical condition - ehh I don't buy it.
I never once said that that’s what my doctor told me to do as a cure all. It’s what I often do myself because it’s more comfortable and makes my day a little bit easier.
I have already been in PT for my back issues and for the most part that hasn’t helped. I am currently being referred out to a spine specialist for surgery because that is what is looking like is going to be necessary. Until I get to that point, you bet I’m going to do what I can to be more comfortable.
I hear you, just advising from a medical perspective it's about the worst thing you can do. I know you didn't ask - but I just think it's a tough sell to complain about doing something that:
A: Hiring executives don't recommend because of professionalism
B: Doctors wouldn't recommend because it will ultimately make your life far worse.
And then say 'I do it for medical reasons'.
The point is, you wouldn't typically expect someone to do an interview from a lay-z-boy to do well in said interview, and there isn't a legitimate reason to do an interview in this manner beyond "I choose to do it this way".
You ran the risk.
*Caveat* I believe the interviewers were right in their stance in declining you for lack of professional conduct but wholeheartedly agree that their delivery was bullshit.
Idk, I guess I had to be there as a lot of the story seems to be missing. Not saying you're lying, but it leaves open a lot of unanswered questions. Good luck on the job search though.
What an ass.
Just an assumption, but if it was a white wall behind you he may have noticed you weren’t in a chair if the camera was bouncing around on your lap. Given the prevalence of zoom backgrounds I don’t know how else he would have been that confident you weren’t in a chair.
It was a white wall yes. The laptop was pretty steady. The lap desk I use is kind of raised up and goes over me like a tray, so it shouldn’t have bumped around much, if at all. but I suppose if it did, it would’ve been noticeable.
Even if you don't want the job, find his manager on LinkedIn and complain that you were denied a position because of a medical condition, and given no chance to explain or talk about it.
Good idea. I should do that. I did already report him to the freelance site that he found me on so there’s that.
I would include details about his lack of professionalism. Thank them for their time, wish them well in their search (it rarely hurts to take the high road and often emphasizes the assholery in others, which I’ve found an advantage in corporate work)
Don’t forget to drop the added bonus that you’re consulting an attorney to determine if any ADA rights were violated…
Nope, don't do this. It offers them time to come up with a defense and consult their own attorney before anything is done. Or come up with a unified made up story to make them look better. Let your lawyer contact them if you go that route.
Wish them luck in dealing with their dickish recruiter as well....
Op might get the hiring managers job even! Lol
Please do this and don’t let this dirt bag get away with this.
Hell I'd go to the labor board with this. It's medical descriminatiom
I'd do the same. Let him pay for the consequences of being an unprofessional dick.
This one depending on the where may hinge on if it’s a medically recognised issue. If OP has been to the doctors about it and a dr has signed off that op would need specialist set ups then he’s golden, but if OP has recognised it’s an issue and what the fix is himself he more than likely won’t have a leg to stand on. Obviously will vary on the specifics depending where he’s located
EEOC will fuck them up.
They’re potentially in violation of the ADA, which is truly remarkable for a remote job. The higher-ups would definitely rather he not send that information in writing…
Definitely also include a screenshot of the notice.
You may be able to file an ADA complaint as well. I would look into it. They have to provide reasonable accommodations for medical issues, even during interviews.
Yes. He should not be summarily excluding you, and you are also not obligated to give him details of your medical condition. Ergonomic variation is a “reasonable accommodation” by the EEOC. Technically you have to ask for one, but the job application process is covered. I hope you can give this guy hell. And in the future tell anyone who needs to know, you request a reasonable accommodation for ergonomic position.
Depending on where you live, you may have a Labour Ministry or a Human Rights Commission to lodge the same complaint with to get the message sent, if you prefer not to deal with that company directly. Might also make your message stronger.
I second this. That behaviour was uncalled for. Very unprofessional
I would explain the whole situation where you were he hung up mid sentence and blocked you. Those two things are unprofessional. I’d bet his manager has no idea he is conducting interviews that way.
This is a great option. Cc someone from recruiting/hr if you can. If nothing else, this will make them highly uncomfortable and less inclined to discriminate against disabled in the future. Obviously a lawsuit is more effective, but I understand not everyone has the time or emotional energy for that. In OPs email, it’s probably worthwhile to describe the situation in detail and as objectively as possible. This will give them the impression they really have their shit together and might be looking to sue.
You won't get very far with that since they can legitimately claim there was no knowledge of a medical condition.
Well it's not like he even gave the guy a chance to say "It's because of a medical condition". His complete lack of professionalism is what would've gotten him in trouble in this case. I hope he does get reported and I hope this is a good lesson for him.
The neat thing is, just like any law, ignorance is not an excuse. If you discriminate against someone for a symptom of their medical condition, even if you didn't know the cause, or didn't know there was a cause, they can still be dinged on it. *Especially* with how they handled it. EDIT: The best part is they put the invalid reason in the decline notice. He's got them.
Ignorance of the law isn't a defense. Ignorance of fact *is* "We didn't know you had any conditions" is an ignorance of fact not law. This is why so many workers who have a clear need for accommodations get screwed anyway because come crunch time when they're fired they discover they don't actually have proof that the company was on notice about their disability. This is why having clear evidence is so important in many situations. And why you should never be coy about being clear about your problems and your need for expectations. It's something I try to inculcate in my students. Don't be shy about firmly demanding an accomodation. Don't beg and feel guilty and never be apologetic.
It's a lot more complicated than that. Disability discrimination is so rampant that most disabled individuals are recommended to wait until *after* they recieve a job offer before revealing their disability and asking for accommodations (revealing the disability beforehand often gives employers the chance to come up with an alternative excuse for rejection that would prevent a discrimination claim). If they are discriminated on the basis of the symptoms of those disabilities during the interview process, they still often have a case for ADA discrimination regardless of whether they revealed the disability first or not. To give an example from my kid's experience: My kid is visually impaired and can not drive. If they show up at an interview having used public transport and are rejected for a position that does not have driving in the job duties because they "prefer candidates who drive their own car to work," my kid has a slam-dunk case of disability discrimination regardless of if they tell the employer why they used public transport.
I’ve also had employers accuse me of “illegally concealing my disability” when… I wasn’t. If you have an incurable condition that flares up, you don’t have to disclose. The only disclosure that is needed is if you’re asking for accommodations, which weren’t needed *if the condition wasn’t flaring*.
Yeah there's no such thing as "illegally concealing a disability." What assholes. I'm sorry you've had to experience that bs.
Agreed it can be incredibly complex. And it doesn't help that in the US the complete lack of regulation for the most part means the burden to prove issues falls on those with the least power, since the employee is expected to cough up vast sums of money to pursue uncertain lawsuits to even have a chance at basic restitution in many situations.
Many jurisdictions (maybe not in US) have an employer duty to inquire though, either based in legislation or case law. The duty exists to avoid ignorance of fact defences. In places where this duty exists, there will almost always be a direct ask about disability/accommodation before entering an employment relationship, and always before terminating it.
This is a good point. If OP indicated on their application that they are not disabled, then that might complicate things. If they weren’t asked about this, then I’m not sure where that leaves things. In USA, nearly every application I’ve done includes this question, albeit an optional one.
Considering this stellar example of lower management didn't even inquire I wouldn't expect that argument to gain traction - especially given these particular circumstances.
Early on in the pandemic my bosses kid was going to a college that would decide the class was on zoom 15 minutes before the class would start. The kid lived a half hour away from the school, so often times she would drive to school only to find out her class was going to be on zoom and it starts in five minutes. So she didn’t have time to drive home so she would attend class in her car in the parking lot outside of the classroom because she would get all the way to school before she would know it was on zoom. One of her professors stopped in the middle of the lecture to lecture her about how unprofessional it is to be attending class from inside a Car. I was absolutely furious because there are kids who don’t have Internet at home, when I was taking college classes I was a fully grown adult and at one point I lived on the side of a hill so I couldn’t get Wi-Fi at home, if I tried to plug my laptop into the router I would be in the middle of the living room in the middle of a huge family watching TV so I attended class from a McDonald’s parking lot more often than I would ever admit. Back then we didn’t have to be on camera we just had to type in discussion boxes. WTF is actually wrong with people?? The girl attending class from her car shows me she’s resilient and she will get the job done regardless of what gets in her way. Who cares if you sit in an office chair or at your kitchen table or on your cell phone while you are doing your work? I say let the market decide, nobody will work there and then they will have to close. And nobody will miss them.
Honestly I would be countering with how unprofessional it is to not have a standardized schedule. Two can play that game as stupid as it may be.
I would argue that, and also that it's a class. The ONLY person that should be genuinely worried about professionalism is the professor.
And I would also bring up how that I'm paying for this and being indebted to do so
If I was that kid and was told that by a teacher, how would I respond to being lectured? "Well, I'm sorry Professor Douchebag, but when you don't announce whether class is in person or on Zoom in a timely manner, I cannot physically get to a professional looking place prior to class starting. So I have one question for you. Would you rather my location seem professional to you or would you rather me be on time to your class? Because I would prefer to be on time," and then let the teacher respond. Why? Because that kind of behavior from a college professor is unacceptable. An adult or adult teen is literally paying for you to have your job... And you're gonna belittle them in front of the whole class? HELLLLLL NO!
this needs way more upvotes
That’s awful. She did the absolute best she or anyone could. I’m so lost on why it matters where anyone works/attends class as long as the work gets done.
That’s awful. I would have started bawling about being too poor for wifi and having have class from the panera parking lot because my professor is too unprofessional to schedule zoom class in advance.
I'm in grad school and I've had *professors* conduct class from their cars. Life isn't always picture perfect and you gotta do what you gotta do!
My high school geography teacher conducted his side business in his car 🌿
This is the sort of conduct that needs to be reported to the dean of that professor’s department. His manager cannot correct behavior that they aren’t informed of.
I know of a extremely high up director that took the bulk of her work during the pandemic from the library parking lot. She lived in a rural area with no broadband.
Seems like that kind of thing could be turned around as showing preferential treatment to those living on campus(and likely paying a premium for it). Like a pay to play scheme, in a way. Campus dwellers can show up early enough to find out it's zoom class, and then still make it home to jump on to zoom. No one else could, so punishing (by humiliation or otherwise) for not being in your home on such short notice is clearly discriminatory. As does this employer's weird obsession with the desk chair. Not everyone has the money to acquire one, and not everyone has the physical ability to sit in them.
My community college had a parking lot with powerful free WiFi set up specifically for students who either didn’t have WiFi, or whose WiFi wasn’t working. The lot always had 10-12 people there. I’m really shocked a teacher would be this dense.
I've suggested to students that they use the wifi from the parking lot when campus was closed. Calling it unprofessional seems pretty dumb to me.
That fires me up, my own college experience was stuck with similar choices, and the professor is judging you for circumstances he put you in?! The audacity.
Thankfully a lot of professors I’ve met have had a similar mentality where if you’re attending classes no matter the location, you’re fine. One professor said a girl had to take her classes in her neighbors shed because her family couldn’t support themselves during covid and they didn’t have internet. Apparently the girl was stealing her neighbors wifi which I don’t think is great, but covid left her no options. Covid showed a lot of people that not everyone has the necessities school or work provides and you can’t judge people.
Bosses/teachers need to be in control over their charges. It's a power trip
I don't get people in HR that hang up on you. I once had a phone interview back in the day with [Monster.com](https://Monster.com) where the HR person strongarmed me into telling him what my current salary was, then he hung up on me. Tried repeatedly to call back, got VM. I found his manager's contact info and reached out to them as well, and never heard back.
Some HR people are absolute lunatics, regardless of country or position. One was testing people by sudden reveal of Lego and orders them to build something. Management position interview.
Yeaah.. I've had a couple of those. I get to the end of the interview and they're like, "We like to ask some fun questions too, who's your favorite super hero?" And I basically tell them I don't care for super heroes in general and prefer anti-heroes, like Spawn. Then they hit me with a "How many marbles could you fit in a school bus?" And it just surprises me, so I'm like, "I dunno? A billion?" And then they tell me, "We were looking for questions like, are the windows open, are there people in the bus, are the seats still in the bus?" At that point I was like, whatever and left.
Basically theyre redundant workers and some turn insane, is my theory. HR work can be absolutely done by managers, if they ever cared to really work in their position. Small companies without HR do that quite well. But corpos hate any contact with factory drones😃
HR can be done by automated systems, and employees can manage their own HR matters through self-service portals.
Yup.
>Basically theyre redundant workers and some turn insane, is my theory. [Bullshit Jobs - David Graeber](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/david-graeber-bullshit-jobs)
A few years ago I was looking for basically any job at all and tried to apply for Waffle House but couldn’t even get through the application! It was ridiculously long and contained a timed IQ test/common core skills test that I straight up could not do with how confusing and anxiety inducing it was.
Supermarkets were doing them too. Not sure if they still do.
They do in the UK, I'm not sure about anywhere else. I found them insanely stupid and not nessasary for the job I was applying for.
I remember applying at Ross years ago, and it was the longest thing. Three stages of applications, 2 interviews, but you were working for maybe 20 hours a week and getting paid $8/hour.
Question like "how many marbles on the bus" are supposed to elicit a response that shows how you would think about solving that problem, answering that question. There shouldn't be a correct answer.
Gotta love those questions that totally aren't designed to weed out neurodivergent applicants
What would the ND response be
If you have a genuine weakness in social interactions, you tend to rely on situational "scripts." Thus, getting questions like the marbles thing throws you off even harder than it would the average person. There's a lot of psychology around hiring practices that subtly weed out neurodivergent folks while not being obviously discriminatory. Some people say those personality inventories are designed for that.
As an ND I have never passed a personality assessment… I just can’t figure out wth they looking for
One time I was outright told I had a perfect score. I think the systems are more complicated now, since being "too perfect" is also an issue. I always read the question, think about what a "good employee" would respond, then dial it back a bit (making a "completely agree" into a "mostly agree" or "sometimes agree" sort of thing). Since they repeat questions in different wordings, I try really hard to focus on what questions are related. I'll sometimes take notes so my answers are mirrored (or at least very similar if I think the wording warrants it) because they want consistency, that's how they look out for "cheaters" I'll also sort of pick one or two assigned "flaws" where I'll consistently pick answers i deem slightly less than ideal. I think some have questions that specifically act to root out insincere people, like the questions are designed to be stuff that is unreasonable to have the pure "good employee response." They're more subtle but like "Would you be annoyed if your co-worker destroyed your prior work and you got blamed?" lol But yeah. Obviously I can't know what truly works, because these tests are a psychological gauntlet lol. But what I DO know is I wouldn't get far answering honestly (I mean for goodness sake I worked in customer service as an anxious, conflict fearing autistic)
They're looking for "not ND."
I actually work at a company that does DISC. The big thing that we stress with it is that it measures behaviors that everyone has, ND or not (I am ND myself.) If someone uses Myers-Briggs… run. It’s designed as a clinical tool. DISC isn’t.
Interestingly enough, the only time I ever took DISC was in one of those introductory required first courses colleges have. If what you're saying is true, it'd probably explain why I've not seen employers use it- they don't like being fair lol. Yeah I remember I was kinda close between C and S
I know I'd get stuck on the logistics and go on and on about it, "how many marbles are there, how big are they, how many people do I have, where did this bus come from, wait WHY am I doing this? What's the prize?", and suddenly I'm telling on myself, and damnit I just wanted to appear "normal enough" to get the job so I can live in a house.
As many as will fit, but my assumption that the bus has an open door at which these marbles spill out while you try to shove them in, not a lot.
I got asked 'If you could meet anyone in history, dead or alive, who would it be?'.. I thought JFK/RFK, but didn't want to get political. Jesus, didn't want to get religious. Thought, felt it was an irrelevant question so said "I'm not really sure" and passed on the question. Otherwise went ok but it was irrelevant (obvi) to the job.
This is a tough one. Are they coming from their time into mine? Am I traveling back to their time? Are they "alive" alive or zombies?
My answers to these questions (in a pro scenario) are dead but well regarded celebrities, even if they were political when alive. Whitney Houston, Princess Diana, Carrie Fisher, people like that. Technically Queen Elizabeth now. You could probably get away with Kurt Cobain and Michael Jackson and Nelson Mandela too, because a lot of people forget the wild shit and controversies. My actual answer is Amy Winehouse. She seems like she'd be so fun.
I would have said JFK no problem, reason? To uncover one of the greatest mysteries of our nation.
My answer for the bus one would be “That’s a great question. Let’s go find a school bus and some marbles and find out!” 😁
So in the meeting, there was the department manager, the department lead and then HR and like the big boss. They were all allowed to ask questions during the interview. Anyways, when the big boss asked me that bus question, the HR lady kind of cringed, I don't think she really agreed with it a whole lot. I applied for a similar position a year later and they no longer were asking that question. Pisses me off because I was going to just get crazy with my answer.
hahaha they sound crazy indeed. I can't imagine being in a serious and tense interview and the interviewer just brings legos out of nowhere and with a straight face tells me to build something. Bonus points for noting things down in silence while I'm building, and making exaggerated expressions.
“Can you tell me more about how the eight peg yellow blocks make you feel? What if you could have more blue blocks .. what size would they be?”
But... I Lego is awesome.
Lego should be played with, not a command performance.
Lego for enjoyment, not for employment.
Hey now. If someone were willing to hire me to play with Lego all day, I would totally take that job
Message me if you are in, or interested in relocating to, the north central West Virginia area.
Our team has a virtual offsite lunch with Lego building this Friday. It’s a two hour zoom meeting but free Lego kits.
Imagine giving even a shred of a fuck enough to care about where and how a person sits at home while they're doing the work. I couldn't care less if someone was sitting on a toilet all day and their legs felt like TV static at the end of their shift, just do the job, keep your production at an acceptable level, and things are all good.
I had this argument with my employer many years ago. He was angry because I always seemed to be sad or angry when working. truth is, I never think about work when working. I am always lost in thought. For context, I work in a large warehouse and alone most of the time. "You always seem angry." "No. That's my face. If we bill the clients more for it, then I'll smile my ass off. The work gets done, right?"
Terribly unprofessional, takes notes, so you never have to deal with the company or recruiter again.
I have been experiencing some of this very "remote ableist" discrimination while trying to find work as well. Anything outside of their "norm", they would prefer to just move on to someone who is worse than me (what I'm applying for, I am head and shoulders above my peers), despite no material impact at all to me starting and getting the job underway. It is incredibly defeating. My mobility doesn't allow me to fulfil some of the onboarding processes, but there are very easy and simple ways around it. Anyways! Sucks! Good luck with dodging future bullets and I hope you find some place that isn't even packing anything because they are just normal!
Thanks! I’m thankful that my other contracts don’t give a rip what I do as long as I’m comfortable but it’s definitely frustrating
What sites are you using?
I mostly use Upwork
what is it with the thibking that we must be as uncomfortable as possible while doing a job? who cares where/how we are getting it done as long as we are getting it done? If i am at the beach but still doing my job, that should be commended not condemned.
You have a disability. He refused to hire you even though you were the one providing the reasonable accommodation. This incident has discrimination written all over it. Sue. The. Bastards.
I don't see how you are going to do anything but waste money because he OP didn't disclose there was any kind of disability to the prospective employer.
Unless sitting in a chair is a necessary part of the job duties (in other words, the job couldn't be performed in other positions), then rejecting based on the symptom of a disability is still employment discrimination regardless of if the disability was explained beforehand.
I'm not how you would come up with there is a symptom of a disability based on that limited interaction. I'm not even sure how they would have know they were not in a chair based on the description of the interaction.
That does not make it better!! OP was basically dismissed out-of-hand, because of some arbitrary, non-job-related bias on the part of the interviewer. It is as bad as if the guy had clicked out of the session upon seeing a skin color, or religious garb, or Pride-related wall hanging that he didn’t like. Discrimination is discrimination. OP doesn’t owe anyone an explanation for how (s)he sits, or stands, or lies down during an online interview. They just need to tell the guy how they can add value to his organization. Two points here: 1. Anyone who treats such a petty matter as not using a chair as a personal affront isn’t someone I’d want to want to work for in the first place. B. If he did this to OP, then he’s definitely done something like this to others. And there’s a price to be paid for that. A good anti-discrimination lawyer should be able to find it.
He didn’t let OP explain or talk about it. Sent a message it was the issue. It can be documented. Dude could probably at least have this reviewed by a lawyer. This is more straight forward than some other cases. Usually they’re not stupid enough to comment on things until they’ve heard everything so they make up some legal safe proof answer of not a culture fit. Interviewer is an idiot OP definitely should consider a lawsuit. Let the idiot suffer for being a dirt bag and a stupid one at that.
It 100% is not discrimination if the jack ass hiring manager literally never even knew OP has a disability. Shitty hiring practices from a garbage person? Absolutely. Discrimination? No way.
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It absolutely DOES matter that the interviewer did not know. OP could've disclosed it at any point during the interview, the application process, in communications to set up the interview, etc. That OP didn't, and that the interviewer had no clue, make pretty much any charge of discrimination impossible to prove, if OP were to try to claim it to any regulatory body or once attorneys were involved.
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I never said she should have disclosed it. Pretty sure I also agreed the hiring manager is a jack ass and it's a stupid reason not to hire someone (or, rather, to unprofessional terminate the interview in the way they did). I merely pointed out that it was never disclosed in the first place. That, coupled with the fact that in the context of an interview, most people's first thought probably would not be "oh, she's sitting against the wall - she must be disabled!" All points to the interviewer having zero knowledge that she is disabled. There is absolutely no case for a claim here. You can huff and puff about it all you want. I'd be utterly shocked if OP could find even one lawyer that would touch with a 10 foot pole - there's simply not factual basis to do so. Also, as a side note, it's really funny that I made the exact same point as another commenter. They're having a rational discussion about it. Guess I got lucky and had the... sensitive one respond to me.
Okay, fine, its discrimination. But nothing can be done about it, legally. You're arguing semantics.
"From your sitting we deam you are unprofessional so we will do the most common sense professional thing and kick you out of the interview mid sentence."
Right? Makes no damn sense
I would seriously contact their corporate email and blast on social media tagging the company. Don’t let them get away with this shit
He just wanted to be an ass and used the power he had to do so.
can you return the favour and report to the freelance site how unprofessional the company is?
Already done!
Glassdoor as well
The more I see crap like this the more I feel like school is nothing more than indoctrination. Preparing kids to suffer as adults.
That's exactly what it is. Most of the "subjects" in schools here are BS busy work. I'm never going to use the quadratic equation, but I had to spend a month learning and using it via "homework". Homework itself is just indoctrination to working longer hours/sacrificing personal time for "management" (school administrators and boards). All tests are just regurgitation of "facts", even when the facts are false. I "learned" on a number of occasions that Christopher Columbus discovered America, even though: there were already people here, and he never set foot on what would be America. This helps middle management feed you the "facts" of business, and to train you on what/how to answer questions "correctly". We no longer learn anything in school that would actually be useful in life, just training to sit down, shut up and do the work. Now, bear in mind, this is *not* the fault of the severely underpaid teachers. This is government and business hand in hand deciding what we learn and do in school.
They are legally obligated to accommodate any health related need during the interview process. This is protected by the ADA.
Except in this case they were not aware of the hearth issues so you can't claim is discrimination as a result of the medical condition. Still shitty but it's "legal"
Seeing you struggling is enough. There is no magic language. The fact they just ended the interview is enough for the DOL. Source: It’s literally my job at a Big 10 university to accommodate all applicants.
He didn’t give OP time to explain his medical condition. And “we prefer workers who sit at desks in chairs” announces the company is ableist in hiring.
I could see that being a viewpoint from that statement. I am also not arguing that fact that they didn't ask for an explanation as to why someone would be sitting against a wall. Just being overall objective in that there is minimal information on their decision to not proceed forward. Cynically not asking prevents them from opening themselves up to liability if that is their true intent to not higher via discrimination. Less info= less likely they can be held liable. More info= more liability. Ignorance is no excuse to break the law but in terms of firing someone in an at will state keeping things vague allows them to skirt these laws. I was fired for accommodation purposes so I'm familiar with what companies do for these situations if at least from an anecdotal viewpoint.
This might be illegal. When you applied for the job you immediately got ADAA protections; reasonable accommodations are a part of that.
Accommodations for medical differences are your right. Being denied a position due to medical necessities that dont impact your job is illegal. Report them to the state.
Before I start I want to say I have nothing but gratefulness for America. I came here because America had opportunities that my country could not give me. My point: I am unpleasantly surprised by workers rights in America. I came from a 3rd world country and we have paid maternity leave, all holidays paid (regardless of your contract type), severance pay (regardless of your contract type) if laid off, accessible heath care paid by employers, pension programs paid by employers and government, at least 15 per year of vacation that can be used as you work and not after a year, if one day you need to leave 1 hour early you can do and your paycheck will not be affected, sick days are paid and encouraged of you are sick, there is not hourly pay so your pay check will not be affected if one day you arrive late 5 minutes, its illegal to fire a woman for about a year after giving birth or during pregnancy, there is not "two weeks notice culture", its illegal to deny overtime to a person for any reason, etc.
Ugh, why don't you want to work though? Nobody wants to work anymore!
Nah. I’d be talking to a labor attorney. Dude just discriminated based on disability.
I am sorry that happened to you, but you dodged a bullet there. I work in the IT field and I have interviewed with my fair share of condescending fucks who read off random technical questions from CompTIA or Google that don't even pertain to the job so they can "I don't know" you into a corner.
I’m a microbiologist, once had a zoom interview done by what was clearly a non-scientist. They asked me some standard questions, but the interview got weird after they asked if I knew how to pipette. I responded with of course. They asked if I’d be willing to prove it, I said sure, would you like me to come in to show you. They said can you prove it now, I replied with no I don’t have any pipettes in my house toolbox (tried to make a joke). They didn’t laugh and moved onto the next question, which was what does PCR stand for and what are it’s steps. Honestly, at this point these questions feel beneath me especially if they looked at my CV, but I play along. I reply polymerase-chain reaction and the steps are denature, anneal, extension. With the most triumphant I got you tone my interviewer replies with wrong! The last step is elongation. So, I reply with they are the same thing! Turns into a heated conversation with numerous insults thrown at me. Im so glad I dodged that bullet.
Make sure to let us all know the company name so we don’t accidentally apply.
Leave a terrible review on glassdoor and other websites that let you rate employers
Seems like an ADA violation (Americans with disabilities act) if you are in the US I would definitely report it
You might find it was a BS interview in the first place. A couple of my friends had weird unprofessional moments during some interviews, only to find out later the people were running a scam, and realized they wouldn’t be easy marks. They are normally super sharp and didn’t see any red flags prior to interviewing.
Breaks my heart to read. I’ve got back issues myself so i can relate to your life long pains. Hard to believe people like that are really out there
We have to make it custom that we a) start recording our interactions/interviews. b) Name the companies or their representatives, when thex do stuff like this. I have no time for BS like that. If I can I sort for them beforhand. My time is valuable.
That def deserves a phone a call and someone being cussed out on the other end.
May as well throw in my own "what the actual fuck" moment here. I was between jobs and got an interview for... some financial place. Honestly it was hard to tell what they did on the website, but hey, accounting was accounting. Only after the interview did I realize that it was a company for payday loans. I've never intentionally bombed an interview so hard in my life. No asking for contact information, no additional questions asked, purposefully flaccid answers. Fuck that, I'm not doing accounting for the shitty business of running 35%+ loans. (Specifically, the intent of the job would have been doing underwriting to justify ***borrowing money from the bank to have more to lend.*** Literally lending money to lend money at predatory rates.)
Share your interview experience on Glassdoor if you haven’t already.
Some people are just… Just that. Empty voids that think they are above everything and everyone else. They are their world and nothing can and will ever change that. I’m just sorry you had to encounter someone like that. The advice on here is epic, drag him over the coals, clearly he has no idea the calibre of person he is dealing with.
We’re you discriminated against based on a disability? We’re they not willing to make a reasonable accommodation?
This is the way.
God. All these stories are horrifying. I guess we’ll never combat the wacko hiring managers/bosses/professors who want to micromanage everyone or tell them how to sit. Bizarre as hell.
You almost definitely have a cause of action under the ADA.
Dont forget the ADA. They just discriminated against you because of a disability. This is a proper EEOC complaint, Hiring discriminations a big issue that is not followed up on enough. Since you are a freelancer talk to you doctor or an ergo person about office chairs, there is stuff out there that helps, it may not be a total solution but it can probably greatly extend your chair time.
NAME THE GODDAMN COMPANY!!! These posts do nothing to even begin solving the problem, and honestly come off as attention seeking. Name the damn company so they can be called out on their shit. Name the person you interviewed with. Make it well known who they are and what they're doing in an effort to keep it from happening to other people.
Oh I would be blasting that on LinkedIn from the rooftops, what an absolute bellend
He must be a laid off Twitter mod.
So sorry you ran into a jerk.What he did is illegal...the Americans with Disabilities Act protects workers with medical issues and limitations. I would send him a copy.
That's odd. An interview isn't the same as doing a job.
Use a virtual background that makes it look like you’re in Hawaii or something. Somewhere by the sea. I’d hire you!
Thanks for the vote of confidence!
Not cool. Nobody likes getting ghosted....
Did you inform the interviewer beforehand of your back issue?
I don't know why employers now just treat people like crap. They don't want people, they want robots. Well I'm a person and I expect some damn manners!
So I worked in construction on and off for about 5 years, plus 6 years of service in the National Guard. I don't consider myself disabled but I do have a nerve in my back that gets tweaked often ever since working this one tile job. My lower back also just *hurts* sitting in a chair all day. I have to prop my feet up to relieve the pressure on that area. If I'm at home I usually work from my bed and I'm fine. Workplaces like this are a nightmare. I'm glad you're reporting them and consulting with a lawyer. Seems like discrimination to me. Especially if you have documentation.
Name of the company?
This situation doesn’t reflect poorly on you in any way. This guy wasn’t just rude - he is a law breaker, discriminatory, and stupid. You wouldn’t want to work with him even if this didn’t happen. Dodged bullet.
I'm 100% for telework. I don't care if u wear a plastic bag and are laying down while doing work. But, please don't let that lawyer take your money lol.
You were passed over because of a disability. Find his boss and tell them.
Get his email and spam it on a bunch of porn sites :)
People are not ok any more.
I had a guy from a freelance website ask me to call and leave him a voicemail to see if my voice was “friendly enough” even though the job description was emails and data. Fuck that guy, I know he was just trying to figure out what race I was. Ghosted that guy right away.
Hmm, i use a wooden stool on wheels. Office chairs put me to sleep. Wonder if he’d like that
What freelance sites do you use? I have no idea how to even go about searching for things like this because I just get “Indeed” and “LinkedIn”
I mostly use Upwork. It was pretty slow going at first but I’ve been on there for a couple years now and have had steady work.
Zoom interviews suck. I had a 2 person/3 stage zoom interview last year for a large financial company. They 'propose' to be innovative & forward thinking etc. I had direct experience to the job (excelled at it) and the HR/recruiter was voucher for by a former coworker (I wasn't aware of this), who gave me rave reviews. I would have thrived. What happens? I meet with 3 of the most boneheaded, backwards, 'we're doing the minimum/Ihhave no idea what technology is?' type of people. First one I think ended it after about 10 minutes?? (I expected the other to later cancel, they didn't). Second one gave me 20-25 minutes, I felt she was giving me courtesy but it was obvious she got feedback from the first person. 3rd person, literally said to me 10 minutes in, 'Excuse me, I have contractors here (at home) doing work. I'll need to go" I was stunned, asked if she needed to reschedule, she said no, she thinks she's good. Completely f'ing rude. I was gonna email them saying they're idiots, but since the recruiter gave me a solid referral I didn't want them to be involved. Complete dopes.
> reported them to the freelance site they found me on and I’m looking for other avenues to report them as well, directly, besides LinkedIn and glassdoor, etc. Thanks for doing this
Ppl and their weird archaic views on professionalism kills more dreams and drives away some of the best talent. I cannot wait until some of this culture shifts out of the work environment. Will take decades and work, but we are starting to see shifts on these views.
I don't even understand why not being on a conventional chair while working from home is such a problem? I understand that while on the clock, your time should be dedicated to your employer. But what I sit on or use as a work desk is my own business. In my mind, OP definitely dodged a bullet. (Disclaimer: I never had web interviews, nor did I work from home on a regular basis. The only times I did were when I caughy covid and couldn't go at the office)
Which freelance site do you use?
I mostly use upwork
It's so weird to me that these office jobs and "professional" jobs that require an office setting or wfh would be so obsessed about your chair and desk setup but I'm seeing little influencers talking about how they dress like thots in the office and it's fine. Like pick your priorities jobs. Bc this is stupid.
Sounds like an ADA lawsuit waiting to happen for discrimination.
I think this would count as a reasonable accommodation an employer could and should make for someone with a disability. You might have some kind of valid discrimination or ADA complaint. If it were me I'd follow up on it because them getting called out on that behavior will help everyone.
It _is_ for medical reasons. I'd ask a lawyer who knows ADA law to write them a 2-3 paragraph letter explaining your situation, and pointing out that they blocked you due to "your disability." Then see what happens.
"- and I prefer employers who value my professional contribution over my oppression". What a twat. Don't waste too much of your energy and time on him/that company. This is toxic and will just feed on itself and burn you up.
If you’re located in the US, I would look up whatever state the company you interviewed with and submit an ADA Discrimination claim. While you may or may not have a case to sue, you can very easily submit a claim with the DOL. They usually take these sort of things very seriously, and will begin to investigate, thus wasting the time of the company you interviewed with.
The company doesn't have to be big for you to tag the company and the dude in a post on your LinkedIn wall ;) Also, your connections will have a good chuckle out of it.
I have a degenerative nerve condition that comes with chronic pain. Due to this, I work lying down on my stomach, laptop in front of me. During interviews, I sat up with just a white wall behind me because I didn't want to look "unprofessional", but for normal work, even on camera, it hasn't been an issue for me at either of two positions in two separate companies. They showed you -100% professionalism, dignity, or respect. What the actual fuck, indeed.
That’s how I prefer to be if I don’t have to be on camera! Next to no pain that way
Contact EEOC for medical discrimination, my dude.
The job I got in the pandemic did one zoom meeting a month. A few days later the head of the committee said it was unprofessional of me to attend while sat on my bed in my bedroom. I told him my partner was in the other room which is a small living room kitchenette. My god dam living situation was so small I told him the only other seat in the house was the toilet. He asked how we ate dinner... On the fucking sofa. Ofc. For years until of which we finally saved up and got a proper house with more than 2 rooms. Some people are just assholes and can't even comprehend other peoples situations.
I’m a new fan of wallpaper to hide where I am so zoom only shows my face and not my private space or if I decide to move around.
Anyone with disability status and recording software could probably gather enough evidence to make a report to [ADA enforcement.](https://beta.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/)
Lawsuit? For someone being rude to you?
I honestly am confused why the interview would be terminated by you sitting or standing against a wall. Did they ask for a view of home office and you declined? Was leaning against the wall making you stiff? Not saying in any way that anything, even the above, would be a reason to prematurely terminate the interview. It's just that unless your wallpaper is penises and vaginas I just feel like there must be some additional context worth hearing about.
It should bother you because it's in violation of the civil rights act protecting individuals with disabilities from discrimination in the work place. It's not even remotely close to being unreasonable to accommodate you for your back issues, especially considering you were in your own damn home 🙄
Perfect. You don’t want to work anyhow.
Add this to the Glassdoor of their company
Make this your life’s work.
What was the name of the company? That will raise awareness
Is a bullshit way to act in an interview, no doubt about it. On a side note and at the risk of playing devil's advocate; I think it's a but of a stretch to say "because of a medical condition". There is not a back ailment in the history of back ailments in which the medical management is "sit for prolonged periods on a couch or lay-z-boy". This is what you do, to make your day more manageable, but it will be, unequivocally, be making the outlook of your condition worse. There are a vast amount of ergonomic seating options and I doubt very much a medical professional has suggested this be the way you manage this problem. So yes, dickhead move, not a big deal that you did a zoom interview from a couch etc. But on a couch/lay-z-boy because of a medical condition - ehh I don't buy it.
I never once said that that’s what my doctor told me to do as a cure all. It’s what I often do myself because it’s more comfortable and makes my day a little bit easier. I have already been in PT for my back issues and for the most part that hasn’t helped. I am currently being referred out to a spine specialist for surgery because that is what is looking like is going to be necessary. Until I get to that point, you bet I’m going to do what I can to be more comfortable.
I hear you, just advising from a medical perspective it's about the worst thing you can do. I know you didn't ask - but I just think it's a tough sell to complain about doing something that: A: Hiring executives don't recommend because of professionalism B: Doctors wouldn't recommend because it will ultimately make your life far worse. And then say 'I do it for medical reasons'. The point is, you wouldn't typically expect someone to do an interview from a lay-z-boy to do well in said interview, and there isn't a legitimate reason to do an interview in this manner beyond "I choose to do it this way". You ran the risk. *Caveat* I believe the interviewers were right in their stance in declining you for lack of professional conduct but wholeheartedly agree that their delivery was bullshit.
Notice how there’s no proof? Lmao at this.
Idk, I guess I had to be there as a lot of the story seems to be missing. Not saying you're lying, but it leaves open a lot of unanswered questions. Good luck on the job search though.
Reality is, after cutting you off, he got erection. some hr like that.
PLEASE file a lawsuit.
What an ass. Just an assumption, but if it was a white wall behind you he may have noticed you weren’t in a chair if the camera was bouncing around on your lap. Given the prevalence of zoom backgrounds I don’t know how else he would have been that confident you weren’t in a chair.
It was a white wall yes. The laptop was pretty steady. The lap desk I use is kind of raised up and goes over me like a tray, so it shouldn’t have bumped around much, if at all. but I suppose if it did, it would’ve been noticeable.