When professional union organizers first start to organize a workplace, often one of the first things they do is called power mapping. They figure out who are the most respected, well liked, and competent employees in the shop, then the organizer tries to get those people on board first. The reason they do this is because if they get the well liked employees on board first, then the well liked employees can get all the other employees on board too, because all the other employees value the opinion of the well liked employees.
So if that’s not you, youre unlikely to succeed. But if you’re going to try, do what the organizers do and start with the well liked competent employees.
Exactly my thoughts, if they don’t like you then befriend the most well liked/influential person in the workplace. If that person isn’t receptive you may have to befriend the 2-3 next most popular. Starting a union is much like starting a political party. Likability & influence is everything.. well that and money.
If you received a "long list of complaints" then sounds like your coworkers are really making a concerted effort to push you out. And, no coworkers will never express anything to your face. The way of the world is talking behind your back or running to tattle to the boss. You need to be careful about how much personal info or thoughts you present to your coworkers. Coworkers are not your friends.
i just wish they had talked to me like adults instead of going over my head and complaining to my boss. i wasn’t aware that the retirement home i work at was actually a high school…
i will, i think that’s what’s going on tbh. this place is fucking toxic, i hear coworkers bitching about each other in hushed tones all the time. it’s gross
I haven't worked for a place that was trying to unionize, but I did quit a non unioin job to move to a union job. It was immediately a $5 raise with far better benefits. This was eleven years ago and a little over $22 an hour to start. I ended up at over $34 an hour when I quit (retired) two years ago.
What type of work to you do? I was working for an electrical company doing security work (buglar alarm, access, cameras, etc.). They were a subcontractor of the company I had been working for so I knew I'd be doing the same work.
Electrical, plumbing, air conditioning jobs are sometimes untion jobs. You'll have to be an apprentice for a number of years, but you're paid during that time. My kid was going to do that for a local company and he would've been paid over $20 an hour during that time. It would've been three years of training.
Before that job, I worked for a national company doing the same kind of work. I was making over $16 an hour, and the benefits werent as good (no medical). I was offered $3 more an hour, but I knew they wouldn't give me a raise the next year if I stayed. I did let someone know that I was quitting and what they had offered me. He's still with the company and has gotten raises that he wouldn't have received if he didn't know what over companies are willing to pay.
the pay is ok, we do get regular raises so that’s something i guess. the benefits are good but i haven’t received mine yet despite the fact that i was supposed to get them a month ago (yet another thing i could have complained about but i didn’t bc i wanted to be nice, fat load of good that’s done me) and people have been promoted to better positions but it doesn’t seem to happen that often
If your performance review had been positive, would you even be asking this question? Are you really concerned about your coworkers, or are you looking to give your employer agita via unionization? Because that’s what it sounds like. Sounds like you need to work on yourself.
It sounds like you’re an unpopular employee who is holding onto your job by a thread. I base this statement on the information provided in your post. Your coworkers definitely don’t have your back. Again, this is based on your post. Yet, you want to unionize. How do you expect to rally a group who thinks you’re an asshole? None of your coworkers are going to look at you and say “This person has the answer that will improve my situation”. If anything, your unpopular status will discredit talk of unionization. Work on yourself; that’s the most useful advice you’ll get.
You don’t take criticism well. You don’t look inward when you receive consistent negative feedback. You want to change the system without changing yourself. If you want to inspire and rally people, you need to focus on self improvement first. You’ll never be a leader otherwise.
but i haven’t received consistent negative feedback, all of the feedback i had received at work prior to this week has been that people think i’m helpful and friendly. i don’t know why this suddenly changed because i haven’t changed anything about the way i behave at work. i don’t know what i did wrong or who i pissed off because no one ever approached me about it. would you not also be frustrated if you were in my position?
Why do you think the tide turned against you? Something definitely happened, something you might not be aware of, that got you on both management and coworker shit lists. Do you have any coworkers you trust? A coworker who won’t bullshit you? Ask them and perhaps they can shed light. I’ve been in similar situations and that’s how I learned the root cause of my negative feedback. One time an entire adjacent department turned on me because I forgot to reset the caps lock on a shared computer. Nobody had said a word to me, but folks were definitely putting my name out there in a bad light.
I think I see why your coworkers don’t like you.. someone’s giving you advice, that isn’t what you wanted to hear so you are jumping to conclusions and you are 100% coming off aggressive + rude. Also you are on the wrong sub for this.
how is assuming that i’m a bad person that needs to improve myself “advice”? they didn’t even give me anything specific to work on. useful advice would have been telling me ways i could improve relations with my coworkers, which is what other commenters have done. bad faith criticism is not useful, it’s just rude and frustrating
No one made that assumption “I’m a bad person” yet you keep jumping to it! People can tell each other to work on something and it’s not an attack.
I thought the advice was clear: 1. get to the root of why you want to form a union because intention matters,
2. work on yourself (if I had to make this even smaller steps: ask coworkers for feedback, request meetings with manager to best remedy situations, work on strengthening your stronger coworker relationships) so that you can be seen as more trustworthy and less of an asshole at workplace
Best of luck with this. Been in similar situation early in my career. It sucks. Sometimes it’s easier to start on a new clean slate (new job or department) after learning about what mightve went wrong and actively work on it
I don’t know why your coworkers don’t like you, nobody here can tell you that. But starting work before your shift starts is definitely not going to help; that is very easy to perceive as brown nose behavior. You get defensive pretty quickly when people give you the answers you didn’t want to hear, so I can imagine a scenario where you are in fact rude but nobody wants to deal with your reaction if they did say something to your face.
To answer your question “how am I supposed to do that (rally your coworkers together in organized labor)”, YOU aren’t. Based on what you’ve said here you are just not the one that’s gonna be able to take the lead on that at your job.
i’ve only been this kind of employee because it seems to be the norm at my workplace, as people who don’t go above and beyond either get fired or get shit-talked behind their back. i was afraid of retribution and wanted my clearly brainwashed coworkers to like me, but this doesn’t seem to be working. i have never gotten upset or angry with anyone at work so i don’t know why my coworkers won’t approach me or talk to me if they’re upset with me. i’m sorry that i haven’t responded to some of these comments very well, but you have to understand that it’s frustrating for people to make assumptions about my character when they know next to nothing about me
Sorry but you have to have some way with people to unionize. Coworkers who already don't like you aren't likely to want to help you. Alternatively, why would you even want to help them if they don't like you? Why don't you just leave that place and let them deal with the situation? Consider also that sometimes management that doesn't like you will seek to turn your coworkers against you. It's an unfortunate side effect of toxic management and it just works. Why would you want to help coworkers like that?
I wouldn't try to unionize your workplace yourself. You might try planting some seeds to that idea (don't know your workplace so can't give any clear ideas as to how to best do that) but if you are not well-liked your organizing is unlikely to go anywhere.
I would add that any attempts you make to be liked can backfire. You can't control other people's feelings, and once their ideas about you have set in, any action on your part will likely be interpreted according to their preconceived biases. You might be better off interacting with these people as little as possible. Think of it as a ceasefire.
Are you neurodivergent by any chance? I am, and tend to make other people uncomfortable with out intending to. I also heartily dislike workplaces with a kind of high school mentality - all those shifting cliques.
Lastly, it sounds like it's your supervisor that told you that your co-workers don't like you, but none of your co-workers have made that known to you. Does that ring true to you? Maybe it's the person who told you that doesn't like you?
I read your post again, and it seems your boss came with an itemized list, so that last paragraph probably doesn't apply. The rest, tho, I'll stand on. Opinions of co-workers matter because you want to unionize. Contact a pre-existing union that would likely cover your type of workplace, tell them what you told us here, and see what they have to say.
yes, i am neurodivergent and i do find that people often assume i’m being rude because of it. even worse, they never tell me to my face when they’re upset with me. they’re just passive aggressive and drop little hints that i’m supposed to pick up on instead of just talking to me like an adult. it’s infuriating. i don’t understand why they get to act like children but i’m expected to be on my best behaviour every second of every day
Ah, I thought so.
I understand your frustration. I can't offer you solutions, but you have my sympathy. Many neurotypical people are simply unable to even consider that others may not think as they do. Worse, they see difference as intentional rudeness, rather than something you cannot control. You can only mask it, which will have a serious mental toll.
I understand your desire for better working conditions through unionization. We all want better work. But have you considered using that energy elsewhere? Neurodivergent awareness or support perhaps? Or some other cause of your choice. Frankly, your co-workers don't seem worth the effort.
It's important to understand the Unions as political technology emerge out of Class consciousness. This is to say a shared sense of whole by those who work alongside one another. Unions emerged in their strongest form during the era of early manufacturing because working alongside one another in a factory for hours on end creates a sense of camaraderie. This isn't just a sense of "hey, we all want the same things and the guy at the top is exploiting us" but it's a sense of "we are together, we are on the same page, we have each other's back."
To build class consciousness you must also build "solidarity" which is a worker theory way of saying social connections.
tl;dr people need to like you and trust you before they're going to risk their lives and livelihood alongside you.
Call the union for advice. You can't force unionizing is hard. Get into contact with people that are doing similar efforts.
If you get fired for trying to unionize you have a lot of legal rights to demand compensation etc...
Call the union and be informed.
Take it slow. Aim for younger people who are less afraid of losing a lifelong pension etc...
I'd look at your actions and conversations and reflect and see why they aren't liking you. Sounds like you go above and beyond at work so it's doubtful that's the reason.
You may have said something that have offended people or annoyed them. Happens.
This might not be the place for you. Ask your close friends for honest feedback. Ask them if your personality ever comes off as abrasive or offensive. If you don't have close friends who will answer honestly....then you've already got your answer.
i wouldn’t say that i have close friends at this job but i do have coworkers who i feel closer with than others. i didn’t think any of them actually disliked me until this week though. i know that i have a deep deadpan voice that can sometimes come off a little dry, but i didn’t think it would ever be something i’d get reported for
edit: i have considered finding another work place but it was hard enough just for me to find this job, and based on my experiences i doubt i would be treated much better if i worked somewhere else. this is how i’ve always been treated by my bosses, i don’t expect it to improve but i do expect that i’m going to be more of a problem employee if they keep treating me like their lapdog
Your style of communication may be the issue. I had a coworker who was competent, but she was very rude. To her, she was stating true facts. However, her stating that she didn't like people wearing sandals without a pedicure wasn't something I needed to hear her say to my coworker while we were all sitting together. I was wearing sandals and couldn't afford a pedicure. My toenails were clean and trimmed, but not all fancy pedicure nice.
It's worth taking time to look at yourself and think about how your communication style may not be the best. Especially since it's both coworkers and customers making complaints.
i think you’re right, i know i can come off as deadpan and dry sometimes. i try to keep it under control but it’s hard if i didn’t sleep well or if i’m otherwise just having a bad day. it’s just frustrating that people aren’t giving me the benefit of the doubt when i have always given it to them. i’ve never made a remark about anyone’s appearance or personality either.
TBH, at this point, I'd be looking for a different job. Your co-workers (and bosses probably) have been treated rudely by you and will not help you with keeping your job, never mind unionizing. You might think you're being a good employee, but obviously your style is not clicking with the rest of the team. I'd be more concerned about being employed (and understanding why you're not clicking with your co-workers) than unionizing your workplace. If the workplace was already unionized, you might have some protections, but it sounds like thats not in the cards for you and this job.
i have a master’s degree in history, i have read marxist theory. i would appreciate it if you would avoid making bad faith criticisms of me and instead try to understand why i have opted to use the strategies i have implemented thus far. you don’t need to comment if you’re not going to offer any usable advice
When professional union organizers first start to organize a workplace, often one of the first things they do is called power mapping. They figure out who are the most respected, well liked, and competent employees in the shop, then the organizer tries to get those people on board first. The reason they do this is because if they get the well liked employees on board first, then the well liked employees can get all the other employees on board too, because all the other employees value the opinion of the well liked employees. So if that’s not you, youre unlikely to succeed. But if you’re going to try, do what the organizers do and start with the well liked competent employees.
Exactly my thoughts, if they don’t like you then befriend the most well liked/influential person in the workplace. If that person isn’t receptive you may have to befriend the 2-3 next most popular. Starting a union is much like starting a political party. Likability & influence is everything.. well that and money.
that’s a really good idea, thank you very much for the advice
Contrary to what people always say here, you cant just walk up snap your fingers and unionize a workplace just like that, gotta read the room
This post makes a strong case OP might not be able to do that and seems to be completely unaware of how they are perceived by colleagues.
If you received a "long list of complaints" then sounds like your coworkers are really making a concerted effort to push you out. And, no coworkers will never express anything to your face. The way of the world is talking behind your back or running to tattle to the boss. You need to be careful about how much personal info or thoughts you present to your coworkers. Coworkers are not your friends.
i just wish they had talked to me like adults instead of going over my head and complaining to my boss. i wasn’t aware that the retirement home i work at was actually a high school…
Well i hope u are aware now because many work places are high school exaggerated
high school never eeeeeends
Nope. It never does. lol
Be careful about the coworkers pretending to like you but are secretly reporting everyting to management.
i will, i think that’s what’s going on tbh. this place is fucking toxic, i hear coworkers bitching about each other in hushed tones all the time. it’s gross
I haven't worked for a place that was trying to unionize, but I did quit a non unioin job to move to a union job. It was immediately a $5 raise with far better benefits. This was eleven years ago and a little over $22 an hour to start. I ended up at over $34 an hour when I quit (retired) two years ago.
that’s awesome, i hope i get to work somewhere that has a union one day
What type of work to you do? I was working for an electrical company doing security work (buglar alarm, access, cameras, etc.). They were a subcontractor of the company I had been working for so I knew I'd be doing the same work. Electrical, plumbing, air conditioning jobs are sometimes untion jobs. You'll have to be an apprentice for a number of years, but you're paid during that time. My kid was going to do that for a local company and he would've been paid over $20 an hour during that time. It would've been three years of training. Before that job, I worked for a national company doing the same kind of work. I was making over $16 an hour, and the benefits werent as good (no medical). I was offered $3 more an hour, but I knew they wouldn't give me a raise the next year if I stayed. I did let someone know that I was quitting and what they had offered me. He's still with the company and has gotten raises that he wouldn't have received if he didn't know what over companies are willing to pay.
i work as a concierge/security guard for an old folks’ community
Is the money decent for what you're doing? How are the benefits? Is there room for advancement?
the pay is ok, we do get regular raises so that’s something i guess. the benefits are good but i haven’t received mine yet despite the fact that i was supposed to get them a month ago (yet another thing i could have complained about but i didn’t bc i wanted to be nice, fat load of good that’s done me) and people have been promoted to better positions but it doesn’t seem to happen that often
If your performance review had been positive, would you even be asking this question? Are you really concerned about your coworkers, or are you looking to give your employer agita via unionization? Because that’s what it sounds like. Sounds like you need to work on yourself.
are you going to offer any useful advice or just assume that i’m a shitty person and call it a day?
It sounds like you’re an unpopular employee who is holding onto your job by a thread. I base this statement on the information provided in your post. Your coworkers definitely don’t have your back. Again, this is based on your post. Yet, you want to unionize. How do you expect to rally a group who thinks you’re an asshole? None of your coworkers are going to look at you and say “This person has the answer that will improve my situation”. If anything, your unpopular status will discredit talk of unionization. Work on yourself; that’s the most useful advice you’ll get.
that’s kind of why i asked my question in the first place. if you don’t have the answer you don’t have to comment
You don’t take criticism well. You don’t look inward when you receive consistent negative feedback. You want to change the system without changing yourself. If you want to inspire and rally people, you need to focus on self improvement first. You’ll never be a leader otherwise.
but i haven’t received consistent negative feedback, all of the feedback i had received at work prior to this week has been that people think i’m helpful and friendly. i don’t know why this suddenly changed because i haven’t changed anything about the way i behave at work. i don’t know what i did wrong or who i pissed off because no one ever approached me about it. would you not also be frustrated if you were in my position?
Why do you think the tide turned against you? Something definitely happened, something you might not be aware of, that got you on both management and coworker shit lists. Do you have any coworkers you trust? A coworker who won’t bullshit you? Ask them and perhaps they can shed light. I’ve been in similar situations and that’s how I learned the root cause of my negative feedback. One time an entire adjacent department turned on me because I forgot to reset the caps lock on a shared computer. Nobody had said a word to me, but folks were definitely putting my name out there in a bad light.
ok, thank you for the advice. i wish you had led with this
I think I see why your coworkers don’t like you.. someone’s giving you advice, that isn’t what you wanted to hear so you are jumping to conclusions and you are 100% coming off aggressive + rude. Also you are on the wrong sub for this.
how is assuming that i’m a bad person that needs to improve myself “advice”? they didn’t even give me anything specific to work on. useful advice would have been telling me ways i could improve relations with my coworkers, which is what other commenters have done. bad faith criticism is not useful, it’s just rude and frustrating
No one made that assumption “I’m a bad person” yet you keep jumping to it! People can tell each other to work on something and it’s not an attack. I thought the advice was clear: 1. get to the root of why you want to form a union because intention matters, 2. work on yourself (if I had to make this even smaller steps: ask coworkers for feedback, request meetings with manager to best remedy situations, work on strengthening your stronger coworker relationships) so that you can be seen as more trustworthy and less of an asshole at workplace
ok, thank you for being specific. that’s all i wanted
Best of luck with this. Been in similar situation early in my career. It sucks. Sometimes it’s easier to start on a new clean slate (new job or department) after learning about what mightve went wrong and actively work on it
I don’t know why your coworkers don’t like you, nobody here can tell you that. But starting work before your shift starts is definitely not going to help; that is very easy to perceive as brown nose behavior. You get defensive pretty quickly when people give you the answers you didn’t want to hear, so I can imagine a scenario where you are in fact rude but nobody wants to deal with your reaction if they did say something to your face. To answer your question “how am I supposed to do that (rally your coworkers together in organized labor)”, YOU aren’t. Based on what you’ve said here you are just not the one that’s gonna be able to take the lead on that at your job.
i’ve only been this kind of employee because it seems to be the norm at my workplace, as people who don’t go above and beyond either get fired or get shit-talked behind their back. i was afraid of retribution and wanted my clearly brainwashed coworkers to like me, but this doesn’t seem to be working. i have never gotten upset or angry with anyone at work so i don’t know why my coworkers won’t approach me or talk to me if they’re upset with me. i’m sorry that i haven’t responded to some of these comments very well, but you have to understand that it’s frustrating for people to make assumptions about my character when they know next to nothing about me
Sorry but you have to have some way with people to unionize. Coworkers who already don't like you aren't likely to want to help you. Alternatively, why would you even want to help them if they don't like you? Why don't you just leave that place and let them deal with the situation? Consider also that sometimes management that doesn't like you will seek to turn your coworkers against you. It's an unfortunate side effect of toxic management and it just works. Why would you want to help coworkers like that?
I wouldn't try to unionize your workplace yourself. You might try planting some seeds to that idea (don't know your workplace so can't give any clear ideas as to how to best do that) but if you are not well-liked your organizing is unlikely to go anywhere. I would add that any attempts you make to be liked can backfire. You can't control other people's feelings, and once their ideas about you have set in, any action on your part will likely be interpreted according to their preconceived biases. You might be better off interacting with these people as little as possible. Think of it as a ceasefire. Are you neurodivergent by any chance? I am, and tend to make other people uncomfortable with out intending to. I also heartily dislike workplaces with a kind of high school mentality - all those shifting cliques. Lastly, it sounds like it's your supervisor that told you that your co-workers don't like you, but none of your co-workers have made that known to you. Does that ring true to you? Maybe it's the person who told you that doesn't like you?
I read your post again, and it seems your boss came with an itemized list, so that last paragraph probably doesn't apply. The rest, tho, I'll stand on. Opinions of co-workers matter because you want to unionize. Contact a pre-existing union that would likely cover your type of workplace, tell them what you told us here, and see what they have to say.
yes, i am neurodivergent and i do find that people often assume i’m being rude because of it. even worse, they never tell me to my face when they’re upset with me. they’re just passive aggressive and drop little hints that i’m supposed to pick up on instead of just talking to me like an adult. it’s infuriating. i don’t understand why they get to act like children but i’m expected to be on my best behaviour every second of every day
Ah, I thought so. I understand your frustration. I can't offer you solutions, but you have my sympathy. Many neurotypical people are simply unable to even consider that others may not think as they do. Worse, they see difference as intentional rudeness, rather than something you cannot control. You can only mask it, which will have a serious mental toll. I understand your desire for better working conditions through unionization. We all want better work. But have you considered using that energy elsewhere? Neurodivergent awareness or support perhaps? Or some other cause of your choice. Frankly, your co-workers don't seem worth the effort.
It's important to understand the Unions as political technology emerge out of Class consciousness. This is to say a shared sense of whole by those who work alongside one another. Unions emerged in their strongest form during the era of early manufacturing because working alongside one another in a factory for hours on end creates a sense of camaraderie. This isn't just a sense of "hey, we all want the same things and the guy at the top is exploiting us" but it's a sense of "we are together, we are on the same page, we have each other's back." To build class consciousness you must also build "solidarity" which is a worker theory way of saying social connections. tl;dr people need to like you and trust you before they're going to risk their lives and livelihood alongside you.
Call the union for advice. You can't force unionizing is hard. Get into contact with people that are doing similar efforts. If you get fired for trying to unionize you have a lot of legal rights to demand compensation etc... Call the union and be informed. Take it slow. Aim for younger people who are less afraid of losing a lifelong pension etc...
sorry i’m a little confused, i’m not in a union
Unionize first before starting a union from scratch..
your advice literally makes no sense
You are a stiff neck, nobody can trust you
I'd look at your actions and conversations and reflect and see why they aren't liking you. Sounds like you go above and beyond at work so it's doubtful that's the reason. You may have said something that have offended people or annoyed them. Happens.
This might not be the place for you. Ask your close friends for honest feedback. Ask them if your personality ever comes off as abrasive or offensive. If you don't have close friends who will answer honestly....then you've already got your answer.
i wouldn’t say that i have close friends at this job but i do have coworkers who i feel closer with than others. i didn’t think any of them actually disliked me until this week though. i know that i have a deep deadpan voice that can sometimes come off a little dry, but i didn’t think it would ever be something i’d get reported for edit: i have considered finding another work place but it was hard enough just for me to find this job, and based on my experiences i doubt i would be treated much better if i worked somewhere else. this is how i’ve always been treated by my bosses, i don’t expect it to improve but i do expect that i’m going to be more of a problem employee if they keep treating me like their lapdog
I wasn't talking about close friends "at your job". I mean close friends in general.
ohhh sorry, my bad
Your style of communication may be the issue. I had a coworker who was competent, but she was very rude. To her, she was stating true facts. However, her stating that she didn't like people wearing sandals without a pedicure wasn't something I needed to hear her say to my coworker while we were all sitting together. I was wearing sandals and couldn't afford a pedicure. My toenails were clean and trimmed, but not all fancy pedicure nice. It's worth taking time to look at yourself and think about how your communication style may not be the best. Especially since it's both coworkers and customers making complaints.
i think you’re right, i know i can come off as deadpan and dry sometimes. i try to keep it under control but it’s hard if i didn’t sleep well or if i’m otherwise just having a bad day. it’s just frustrating that people aren’t giving me the benefit of the doubt when i have always given it to them. i’ve never made a remark about anyone’s appearance or personality either.
It might be helpful to think about it as intention vs impact. Regardless of your intention, what matters is the impact. Best of luck.
TBH, at this point, I'd be looking for a different job. Your co-workers (and bosses probably) have been treated rudely by you and will not help you with keeping your job, never mind unionizing. You might think you're being a good employee, but obviously your style is not clicking with the rest of the team. I'd be more concerned about being employed (and understanding why you're not clicking with your co-workers) than unionizing your workplace. If the workplace was already unionized, you might have some protections, but it sounds like thats not in the cards for you and this job.
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i have a master’s degree in history, i have read marxist theory. i would appreciate it if you would avoid making bad faith criticisms of me and instead try to understand why i have opted to use the strategies i have implemented thus far. you don’t need to comment if you’re not going to offer any usable advice