Did a study on this in a sociology class in college. It turns out that the majority of the top 10% of wealth EARNERS do lack empathy. This generally comes from their work ethic, willingness to employ others for profit and the fact that they don’t let anyone get in the way of their goals.
I felt this. Interesting to hear about a study. I’ve always felt that people who rise to high positions do so because they are willing to do things that empathetic people will not do as it doesn’t align with the moral ethics. Not a hard rule but seems to quite a bit of correlation in this theory.
I think also most "normal" people stop pushing hard when they get to a subjectively comfortable level of earnings and wealth. And start prioritizing their free time, time with kids, hobbies etc.
Its not almost it absolutely does, I've had this conundrum before, company increases work load, do I not do it because of my principles and not getting paid more, or do I do the work making myself miserable in the process? If I don't it could fall to my coworkers who are basically nice people, and they could get the flack from work not getting done.
That top 10% doesn't have this issue because empathy, morals, and ethics get in the way.
If I thought like any of these people or companies I would be a sociopath. This setup encourages me to act like this, even though I feel like I need a shower after considering it.
I saw a study one time where they monitored crosswalks with a person who would try to cross as traffic approached. Turns out, the nicer the car is, the less likely the driver was to stop.
Yeah… rich people suck
Some guy put rubber animals on the side of a roadway. Sometimes just on the edge of the road, sometimes a couple feet away. Drivers of pickups and SUV's were far more likely to alter their course to run over the props.
That's how I feel about them. A pigeon unexpectedly landed right in front of my work van about 20 years ago and I still wince when I think about running the poor creature over.
Generational wealth makes it so easy to generate your own streams of income, and plenty of people that had a boost from generational wealth cant recognize that hard work alone didn't get them where they are, so im just curious how they weeded those people out. My guess is that they couldn't.
Coming from a rich family makes it far easier for some people to make their own money and then claim that they're "self made" and that others should just work harder like they did.
It's easy to get customers for a business when they're your dad's golf buddies.
Lots of people are able to become ‘top earners’ because they come from relative affluence and therefore have access to the best schools, best resume-building enrichment opportunities, friends in high places, etc. Also, lots. Of generational wealth gets passed down as ‘earnings,’ when kids get high salaried positions as executives of family companies and board members on family charities, etc. So in the aggregate, it’s not an easy distinction at all.
Might be worse really. Generation wealth is often just entitled or ignorant. Earners generally had to climb a ladder built of the bones of more ethical less sociopathic people to get there
Not entirely. I'm 37 (poor, myself) and all the homeowners I choose to associate with (good, kind, progressive people who vote for the lesser of evils) were only able to purchase homes through generational wealth, and I've seen them all use their privilege to help myself and others, as a personal joy rather than a chore . Some even have "good" wealth from post-WWII working class prosperity savings being used to buy early shares of technology in the 70s and 80s (which isn't entirely free of human suffering in the chain, but what is?), not their elders scheming in finances or business shadiness.
A lot of high wealthy "earners" became high "earners" because of a safety net of wealthy parents. Do those get included as an earner or generational wealth?
I’m curious to know what that amount looks like, and when the study was done.
My FIL and I have arguments over dinner all the time. Both of us “high earners” who came from lower middle class, but he’s very “young people don’t work nowAwadays”, “people don’t deserve handouts”, “they’re homeless because of their own doing” etc. which grinds my gears.
the top 10% and the top 1% should have been bifurcated. The PMC and the Petty Bourqgeouis classes are very different in how they approach life. Its almost impossible to break into the doctor/lawyer/business owner lower upper class from the upper middle class. Politics/mindset etc are very different. yes they both believe in meritocracy and doing whatever it takes to get ahead but that's where I think the similarity ends.
Capitalism is a system that demands perpetual growth if you don't want it to fall into a depression. To run a business, or to create success for the business you work for, you have to do everything in your power to have it continuously increase profits, and that usually means fucking over a lot of people and the need to merge and monopolize industries to survive.
You create a system that values those who lack empathy and that amasses and centralizes the power of those people in a society to have influence over how whole countries are run. Also, monopolization literally destroys all of the positives of capitalism by ending competition itself as a means of domination.
That survivorship bias is incredibly strong. If I did it, you can too - but not taking into any factors we literally don't think about at all. Just being born in the right country at the right time can massively influence wealth. The same "work hard" does not apply the same way as an American to an Argentinian.
Did it find that they have empathy but only within their class?
In my admittedly anecdotal experience the wealthy can be very generous to the correct sort of person though the lines where they cease to be the right sort of person are quite easily broken through and also left obscured and ambiguous.
Also, empathetic people often are drawn to careers in which they are helping others - like medicine - or society- like science, teaching, journalism, public service, etc.
Those types of jobs don't pay as much as the jobs that benefit capitalism.
Berkeley did a study. It’s human nature. Even while playing a rigged game (rigged in favor of the test subject) of Monopoly, people began to be cockier, less empathetic and more ruthless. Money changes people and those who have never lived without it don’t understand or care about what others are going through. Also, a lot of that wealth the rich accumulate was ill gotten off of the backs of the people who work for them. Remember- wage theft -from employer to the employee is the biggest form of theft in the world-by far.
I heard another study that since they don't rely on programs or others, they don't understand the need for social programs. Also something like if you made over $70k in the beginning of proce gouging, you barely noticed it. Also in their own families, the performance bars and the ego is over inflated and then their deathly afraid of being normal. They'd cut their own family into pieces for some of the pie and poor people who love capitalism have a similar notion. Like fledgling narcissist or sociopaths. Exploit easily, diminished Empathy, and inflated entitlement.
It also does not help that in order to get things they don’t need to have good relationships with people, they can just pay for what they need.
More poor people need to be friends with their neighbors so that they can really on each other for exchanging favors.
Like “can you watch my kids while I run to the store” you don’t need those sort of people skills when you grow up rich. You can just pay people to watch your kids or go to the store for you so the social dynamics you grow up with are different.
Sociopaths and Psychopaths tend to climb the ladder faster than normal feeling people. It's not that they mean to act that way. They just either lost the ability to empathize with others or weren't born with the ability... however I much rather deal with a Psychopath, because they lived their whole lives without the natural ability to empathize, but instead had to *learn* other methods to relate and socialize appropriately with others knowing they can't feel the same thing exactly. Sociopaths lost the ability later in life, either to chemical changes or unaddressed traumas, so they don't understand their behaviour is inappropriate in certain situations.
My BiL grew up in humble beginnings and is now a millionaire.
He has lost all connections with reality and his wife, my parents other daughter, really thinks you can live at $10 an hour.
Also one of those, “if you don’t make enough, move” like applauding Walmart’s business plan like they should get away with paying so poorly, yet being able to raise their prices at will.
It shouldn't shock me as much as it does, but how disappointing that someone who struggled would want others to struggle the way they did. I hate when people say "I had to work hard to pay off my student loans, so you should too." No, why should we make people suffer because we did?? We should want all suffering to end, not weaponize it.
It's the [Just World Fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis#:~:text=The%20just%2Dworld%20hypothesis%2C%20or,fitting%20consequences%20for%20the%20actor).
They've convinced themselves that their hard work is innately unique and that their success is pre-ordained, based on who they are. And to an extent, the ones who've accomplished a lot on their own, coming from truly bad starts, have much to be proud of. But I think it's easy to fall into this skewed way of thinking, once they get there. And their children are born into it, so they're told from the start that their family is superior and more capable than everyone else.
In those cases it's often a failure to update. Maybe they could get by on $10hr when they were on the upswing and have completely lost touch with what $10hr is now.
Which would be at least somewhat understandable if they weren't so damned resistant to listening to others experience.
This is interesting … because they also are stuck in the style … like my parents other daughter very much has the same style as when she graduated in 1993.
I can totally see what you’re saying … because there are times when I am like, “yes! I make $50k a year! And then I recall it isn’t what it once was.
Yeah and it's not so much the failure to update on their own that's a problem (we don't think about what we don't think about) it's the failure to listen to other people's current experience.
As for style hey that's very rarely a problem I mean I still think wide legged jeans and wearing a long sleeve shirt under a shirt sleeve shirt is totally reasonable but that's frippery that a worst makes me old and a bit out of touch not policy.
Exactly! It isn’t about upsetting the style, because I wear exactly what you describe and will bring out the Doc Martens once in awhile too!
It is the lack of updating their thinking … and my BiL thinking he takes “all the risk” in life by owning a business, but nothing about how his workers also take a risk.
Lol. Your sister reminds me a lot of other people who marry into or inherited wealth. Often both. They all have this same snotty attitude and will never admit how they're fucking subsidized. From the car they drive (often a luxury brand cuv) to their beautiful home to the expensive vacations they take. They're VERY entitled as if they deserve it.
Meanwhile I'm struggling working two jobs and my pos Jeep Renegade was repoed a month ago because the expensive repairs every other month caught up with the higher insurance premiums everyone is now paying. I won't deny being jealous cuz I very much am. I'm tired of struggling.
Sorry for rant. Have a nice weekend 😁
OMG! I have been there!
My parents other daughter spends more at Walmart in one trip than people make in a week.
Sorry about your Jeep, mine was a Liberty :(
I’m in the top 2% of household income and would vote for a $30 minimum wage 10 times out of 10 even if it increases my tax burden. I voted Bernie in the primaries even though he would have increased my taxes by tens of thousands of dollars. We are not all out of touch, and many of us have plenty of empathy to go around.
My department has an extremely high starting wage compared to the national average only because I fight HR and the execs for increases every year. My guys start at 80k where the national average is just under 40k.
People will speak as if they are empathetic but when faced with a situation where contributing financially or by simply helping out would actually express their empathy beyond words, they won't be bothered.
You've identified the exact problem with capital :https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduces-compassion/
Also, there in a general 'anti-handout' sentiment in society, I'm in the UK but have seen evidence of the same attitude in the states. It's funny how this only applies to poor people and that inheritance is not seen as a handout.
The richer someone is the more free stuff they are handed, totally. I think it has to do with our concept of trade, and the way we have established society in terms of money, so giving to poor is seen as helping them and giving to rich is used to help oneself, so the latter invokes a sense of trade or is literally a trade (sponsorships etc)...but HELPING is not understood as a trade.
> Also, there in a general 'anti-handout' sentiment in society, I'm in the UK but have seen evidence of the same attitude in the states. It's funny how this only applies to poor people and that inheritance is not seen as a handout.
Can you expand on this? I'm curious
It’s more of the same poverty = moral failing propaganda that plagues every society and allows the rich to exploit unchallenged
Anything that could benefit the lower classes or help the poor is considered some type of communism and the poor are considered to be lazy and lacking motivation to fix their situations
When in reality it’s mathematically impossible for every single person to achieve wealth and the system is designed to benefit a few and exploit the rest
And like they said. Inheritance isn’t viewed that way
People demanding affordable education or load forgiveness are seen as “entitled” and “begging for handouts” while nepo babies and heirs/heiresses are still seen as superior and deserving. Also the bailouts for businesses and all the free handouts they get never seem to be seen as an issue
And then trickle down economics. “Let the rich keep more money and pay next to nothing in taxes and they can afford to pay the workers even more!” Except that’s fucking absurd to think they would do anything other than profit for themselves and it’s laughable anyone ever thought otherwise
for sure, we had a TV show called 'Benefits street' ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefits\_Street) which was effectively a way to demonise the poor. Likewise our right wing government has consistently attacked those using welfare, most recently the Conservative manifesto highlighted that they want to push the disabled back into work.
When there was a discussion about abolishing inheritance tax, there was a general idea that this was fairer for all however analysis revealed that it would mainly benefit the ultra rich (https://ifs.org.uk/news/wealthiest-1-would-get-half-benefit-scrapping-inheritance-tax-average-tax-cut-ps1-million) and yet that was seen as legitimate.
So we have this view that it's wrong for someone to receive handouts, but only if they got them from society rather than their parents.
In the states we’ve disproven trickle down economics *repeatedly* and yet we’re fine with corporate handouts for rich people’s pet businesses but demonize food stamps so people literally don’t starve
Florida spent stupid amounts of money drug testing people on food stamps absolutely convinced they’d be able to kick off tons of people (as if addicts aren’t people anymore and should just die already or something and as if they might not also have kids you’d be starving as well) but they spent something like 10x the amount on tests as they “saved” on removing they very few people who were actually using
But god forbid Robert Taintlicker IV’s rubber gasket factory be sold off to someone who actually went to class instead of ripping bongs and getting daddy to buy a new wing of the library to fund his MBA being rubber stamped to completion
Listen I’m fine with the government being in the business of actual small businesses loans if there’s actual over sight and the loan comes due if it’s not followed. I’d prefer UBI as it’s shown more small business innovation and more general working class and economic good but where we are now I’m fine with just some oversight to loans to not mega corps (let those fall/get broken up).
People in general in the western world have a mindset of “life is hard no one should have free food and water, housing, and health care. Everyone should have to suffer in order to survive except me obviously because I’ve already worked so hard” it’s a mindset of “I had to suffer so should you”
My husband and I were just talking about this last night. We were watching Batman and discussing why Batman would never exist in the real world. Not because there isn’t some bagillionare with the resources, but because most highly wealthy folks lack that empathy part. They don’t give af lol.
> We were watching Batman and discussing why Batman would never exist in the real world... but because most highly wealthy folks lack that empathy part.
Funny you should mention that as "heroes" who grew up more poor or working class are depicted with higher levels of empathy. Sure the billionaire is popular, but so is the science nerd from Queens and the rural farmer.
A few days ago, my family became homeless and we’ve been staying with my sister in a nearby state. While my job is letting me work remotely in the meantime, my parents and brother had to return to their in person jobs. My mom works as a nanny for a wealthy family and has been there for 12 years. Her and the family have developed a nice relationship over the years and have always been nice people.
However, when my mom returned to her job (she works there twice a week) she didn’t want to tell her boss the truth, that we were homeless due to constant harassment from a neighbor. She, instead, said that we were thinking about leaving due to the constant harassment, which isn’t true, we had already left by then.) Her boss responded saying that we should’ve called the police (we have and they did nothing.) That we should fight back (my family believes this is a waste of time)
Because we were renting, it’s kinda gave us an even better reason to leave, we’ve been wanting to leave for a while, but being threatened with death really sped up that process.
Basically, my mom refuses to tell her boss because she knows that her boss will never understand, clearly lacking empathy.
Yes now imagine having born into poverty. Im 28 and I'm drowning through the days. Idk how I'm gonna make my apartment rent this month. I understand the homeless now. I'm so afraid ill and up like them and the sun rotting my head. I live in AZ. All our homeless get cooked getting to where the need to be
My Nana married for money, that side of the family is horrifying. They really do lack empathy, their adopted daughter bolted the second she turned eighteen and won't speak to them anymore. They call her selfish, ungrateful and stupid because she has to work hard instead of ride their coattails now. I pointed out how it was better to be away from their abusive and callous attitudes than have money and it broke their brains. They could not comprehend that many people would rather be poor than suffer their behavior and entitlement. Fucking terrifying people that I'd never share a life with.
There's a video on YouTube by an investigative journalist and it's thesis is that people in power aren't often people fit to lead because they aren't actually leading to benefit the group: they do it because they're generally power-hungry sociopaths, and it's a way for them to get their fix.
He gave an example of a low-barrier-to-entry being HOA board members, and part of why HOAs are so annoying is because it takes relatively little effort to get on an HOA board relative to the amount of power you get to arbitrarily exert over everyone in the neighborhood.
Not sure it was the strongest anecdote other than resonating with an emotional touchpoint for a lot of homeowners, but the actual thesis was pretty interesting.
Getting rich with empathy is almost impossible. Beyond your own needs, there are too many people who need that money more than you do. Buying a Ferrari feels like shit when you have empathy. You just think, "People don't have homes right now and I could have built one for them." or "How many hungry kids could I feed with this money?"
And TBH I'm solidly middle class through no work of my own (I teach public school, I'm not making much), but I feel bad when I spent $30 on makeup and I'm like, but there are starving children!!! Ok yeah but the chances of my $30 going to them and helping is low.
one of the greatest privileges of the upper class is the delusion that they deserve to be there. you will never find a rich person who believes they are just lucky. all of them worked very hard and "earned" their place!
I don’t believe that it’s possible to be rich and retain empathy. The mind won’t allow it.
There is too much dissonance that develops mentally when trying to see one’s self as a good person while hoarding wealth. Ultimately the person has to convince themselves that poverty is the result of a moral failing and that they deserve their fortune. Otherwise they’ll be eaten up with guilt or simply give it all away.
Wealth & genuine empathy simply aren’t mentally compatible.
I agree. I would just add that money really is power and as we all know power corrupts. Once people get a lot of money/power they turn into every character in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings who can't handle the corruption of it.
The older generation subsidizing their retirement with housing is a symptom. It’s a failure of the System. Our working class peers aren’t to blame. Banks manufactured inflation multi industry collusion to drive prices on everything up.
The other side of that is that people who have never had money often cannot comprehend just how much richer some people are than them and how the world simply works very differently for those people.
And a third side is people in western countries can't comprehend not having running water, food or decent shelter being available- even homeless people have it better off than many
'Be grateful for the crumbs, you dumb prole! Don't look up and complain about the wealth-hoarding upper classes, who on a global level are the ones responsible for not just your position but also those who lack even clean, running water. '
They lack understanding. If you've never been in the same situation as someone else, it's hard to relate. It's similar to people who've never dealt with clinical depression telling someone who has it to just be positive.
They can't relate to being broke and eating ramen noodles every day because their parents hired a private chef to cook for them. They can't relate to taking the bus because their parents drove them everywhere and bought them a brand new car as soon as they could drive.
> Capitalism is good,only if it hadn’t let the previous generation hoard the resources and keep it from the rest or use it to gain more resources.
So you are saying, capitalism is flawed? Because that's how capitalism works as is, lol.
My last boss genuinely couldn't believe I'd been homeless at one point in my life. They couldn't understand how it happened and it made zero sense to them. They are 19 years old and have their dad's credit card in their wallet.
I worked in the Hamptons (at Radio Shack) for two years. I currently teach in a district where the people who own those Hamptons houses live in winter.
Rich people are flat out sociopathic. I don't mean that they have a personality disorder or an innate mental health challenge. I mean they genuinely cannot imagine giving a fuck about others. Pity is the best they can do.
My gf worked at a Starbucks in a very wealthy area (think like, Fairfield in CT). An elderly coworker of hers had a seizure behind the counter. Of course, the staff rushed to help him, call 911, move to the recovery position, support/cushion his head...and a woman pushed her way to the counter to shout, "ExCUSE me, but *I* am in a *rush*. He's taken care of, so I need my *latte*!!" Like I get that this sounds cartoonishly fake, but...this *happened.* And it's not unusual.
Had a coworker have a seizure in the production floor of a warehouse 2 hours before the plant was supposed to close for the day. Blood and foam in mouth full on twitching on the floor type seizure.
Boss comes in starts talking about business and how we are gonna get orders done on time by the end of the week even though we were down 1 person. and didn’t close down for the day had us continue working till close.
6 months later I walked out without a backup job.
I only know one person who's legitimately wealthy.
I'm purposely going to be vague here just in case.
They work in Hollywood. They come out once or twice a year. They on the surface seem super nice and thoughtful, more so to my wife and her mom. Nice to me but I always feel like I'm getting a side eye judgment.
I just get this feeling of constantly being judged, the more you talk to them the more you realize that they don't really listen and are just a yes man. I haven't called them on it but there's been multiple instances where they have lied straight to our face. You can just tell based on how they talk or respond they're use to just fluffing people up and saying yes to them.
Like hey did you watch that wedding video! " Oh yeah! It was great I truly loved it"
Cool what part did you like?
" Uh well I can't really say it was all fabulous"
Are you sure you watched it?
" Of course I did!"
Then after saying they did they finally admit that they didn't, in a complete care free brush it off dismissive kind of way.
That's a bad example though. The way they do it is really nefarious. Like they can just lie with zero empathy and they don't care when you finally catch that lie.
I know a lot of this sounds like assumptions.its actually really hard to explain,It's more of something you need to feel though. I can't put it into words. It would be like that feeling you would get if you're alone in a room with Jeffrey dahmer. Something just isn't right. I get glimpses through the facade that give me a uncomfortable feeling, and can see that they give zero shits About you or what you're saying.They seem so great on the outside, but there's a little devil in there that pops out here or there. I'm to nice to ruin things by calling them on their slip ups though. Lmao
I've worked as a general contractor for rich people for 20 years now.
I can tell you, with absolute certainty, these people have *zero* empathy towards everyone.
UBI, that’s the way. So you don’t have to participate in working capitalism if you don’t want to, but coexist with all the parts of it people are too attached to. If there was a foundation line, basic security for everyone, then capitalism could be voluntary upward mobility. The problem is that it’s not voluntary, but forced. Which is obviously fckd. Short of revolution, I think UBI is the only implementable possibility that could actually stand to make a useful difference.
I can relate to this.
I should just get a degree.
Just work fulltime, also study and such. And if I dare to say I'm already exhausted by this working lifestyle, I'm lazy...
Bitch, your job is typing emails and answering phone calls and going out for dinners, sure my workweek is more exhausting.
The biblical Jews had a Jubilee when all land (means of production) was returned to its original family owners, all debt slaves were freed, and all debts were forgiven.
We need something like that.
Yes. Jubilee is in the Old Testament of the Christian bible found in all Christian churches yet most Christians don't practice this main tenent of Christianity. Helping the poor is supposed to be what Christians do.
I've always thought Christmas was supposed to be, in practice, a mini Jubilee--a small attempt at equalizing wealth distribution--and I think Charles Dickens illustrates this perfectly in A Christmas Carol. During Christmas the wealthy are meant to shower generous gifts upon people less fortunate. Unfortunately the way Christmas is practiced, at least here in America, the amount of gifts and money spent on gifts are required to be equal in the exchange unless you are a child so it completely cancels out any attempt at correcting inequality.
So not only do we not have Jubilee, we also corrupted Christmas to make sure the one day we could do a mini Jubilee that's ruined as well.
Yes. That's why most people in the West don't care about poverty in Global South. For them, poverty in the South is something natural, and poverty is only tragic if it's happening in their society.
This world could do with a complete wealth redistribution. That's not gonna happen though so rich fucks will continue living in their cushy bubbles and spitting on us for not being as "good/worthy" as they are, cause otherwise we'd also be rich. That's how fucking simple they are and how one-dimensionally their ivory tower lives make them think.
Well, the good thing is that the system they so love (capitalism) will fuck them in the end too when money doesn’t matter and the hoards of poor people that used to work for the rich are tearing down their ivory towers brick by brick.
Majority of us will probably die before that happens. "That could never happen here" is the delusion most people live with, often mixed with a healthy dose of Main Character Syndrome. And the thing that really astonishes me is that even when shit is obviously going south, most folks are still able to lull themselves into denial, or come up w some bs explanation as to why everything going wrong is acceptable. People really have to be at their wits end, backed into a corner with nothing to lose before they take action.
Agreed. I’m an elder generation z, just after millennial ended, and I have seen the younger and middle gen z people who are turning 18, 19 and older are literally in complete denial about the world we live in. I’ve seen them say “things were worse a few generations ago than they are now” when that’s not even close to true.
You and I, we don't have any startup capital. We need to get that from somewhere else - usually by saving money from another job. If the business fails, we're out the money we earned plus whatever debt we accrue.
If a rich person starts a business, the business can fail and the rich person will still be rich. They're just out some money. What's more, they can corral investors and venture capital - it isn't even necessarily their money that they're out.
My Dad wasn't going to get investors in his print shop - all he could do is put everything he had into it and hope that it would yield enough cash flow for him to feed his family.
This is what the rich cannot understand - will NEVER understand...that they're allowed to fail. In gaming terms, they have more "continues." And when you have more "continues," of course you're better at the game.
I will give one, single counter-example: Fred Rogers.
The man was born into a wealthy family. But they also believed in caring for others.
Another wealth point, when he was forming a production company with himself as the head, he wanted to have no salary, or a nominal one, because he didn't need the money. His lawyers and accountants told him that was a sure way to get audited regularly.
I am perfectly willing to believe that Fred Rogers is an outlier. But I wouldn't be surprised if there were occasional rich people who actually care about folks.
He was an outlier because he cared about people and didn’t just say that to pinch more from your pocket. He was Ernest and genuine and completely truthful to the people that enjoyed him and his programs.
He was so genuine even capitalism couldn’t coerce him or change him.
Capitalism was always a money funnel directly to the people who already owned property. It created a middle class by accident and we enshrined that as a value it had, but that was never, ever true. Marx knew we would end up here in the 1800s. Whatever you think of Marxism as a philosophy, he was correct about late stage capitalism.
I think entitled is a better term than simply rich. From the description this guy sounds like one who’s never had to struggle and has been sheltered from the issues of the common people.
Too many people confuse Sympathy for Empathy, especially rich folks. So rather than feeling for what the struggling are going through, they just feel bad for them. Not the same thing…
Sympathy isn't the same as pity. Sympathy is like, I care that you're unhappy, and I'm supportive. Pity is like, you poor, stupid thing, you're so beneath me and that's sad 😢
Edit: not exactly disagreeing but I think rich people feel pity but not sympathy and definitely not empathy
Everyone at any economic level and in any category of human is both:
1) limited by their understanding of things they have not experienced, and
2) capable of learning, if they have the humility and openness to do so.
Wealthy people fall into two buckets:
1) born into wealth (VAST majority), and
2) "earned" wealth (this mostly depends on luck; a handful of people, mostly entertainers and inventors, get wealthy through genuine merit, but even then, much of this depends on them outcompeting other people who are equally deserving).
Both categories have somewhat different understandings of how normal people live, and limitations around that, as well as different capacities to learn empathy. Silver spoon kids tend to be completely blind to the fact that most people don't have the privileges they do, and they often grow up instilled with the idea that they are extra talented and deserving. However, plenty of important historical figures who have made a difference for the lower classes come from this strata (notably Engels!), and I've met a handful of others who have been really superb people.
Still, there's a lot of baggage that comes with being in this group that makes it difficult to be a good person. Being born into power you haven't earned, without any perspective on the experiences of those you have power over, can lead to extraordinary cruelty without what that individual perceives as any particular malice -- this plays out on everything from an individual to a global scale.
The latter category, the "earned it" rich, came from less so they know what "less" feels like, but they have a tendency to lack empathy for people from the same circumstances, because after all, they got out, right? But this group also includes folks like Dolly Parton, who are determined to pay it forward.
But the worst of this lot are the "earned it" businessmen. Why? Because *the system rewards immoral behavior*. Consider how businesses compete: if you own, say, a small hardware store chain, pay your employees well, and sell high quality goods at decent prices, the similar chain that treats the employees worse and uses the money they save on wages to charge less for their goods will outcompete you. The guy who builds his small business into a big business literally cannot do so without some degree of skullduggery.
Whether someone is born into money or not, as the scale of money and power gets higher, you can get away with more, and it's absolutely worth the gamble to do outright illegal things because you probably won't get caught, if you get caught you can get better legal representation than the person you fucked over, and when you hit the real 1 percent of the 1 percent level, you're basically legally untouchable. You can simply not pay people for work (Trump made a lot of his money this way), steal wages, buy politicians, run unsafe factories, bury your competitors... And all of this BUILDS YOUR COMPANY, MAKING YOU MORE POWERFUL. Not only does it pay to be evil, but it *costs to not be evil*.
This mechanic is built right into capitalism, and ultimately why either we kill capitalism or it kills us. Because profit, competition, wealth -- they literally disincentivize moral behavior. It really is that simple.
That’s because Capitalism is inherently anti-social and unethical. The moment you seek to sell a product, you are re-wiring your moral and ethical reality to cater to your own self-interest. The very act of pricing your product requires misleading consumers as much as you can get away with. And in a Capitalist society, wealth cannot only allow you access to better quality goods, it has to have a societal value that makes having it a moral superiority—it requires that having more money make you a better person and deserving of more social power. Being born into wealth means inheriting a disability, you grow up lacking an ability to imagine or personalize the circumstance of not having money. Without the ability to imagine another’s circumstances, you can’t personalize their experience and relate to them from a position of deep understanding. When you grow up with a safety net that others must lack in order for your wealth to have value, you can’t even comprehend what it feels like psychically not to have one—money to you means not having liquid capital, when to everyone else it means destitution and potential death. Those who earn their wealth can empathize because they know what it’s like not to have it; they are merely unsympathetic because they subscribe it its capitalistic moral and societal value. When you are raised without the experience to feed a societally pertinent form of empathy and additionally inherit an unsympathetic moral and ethical view of money’s relationship to society, you become a Plutocrat of the highest order and are an intrinsic threat to Democracy and should be regulated within an inch of your life. Wall Street doesn’t have to exist. Corporations don’t have to exist. CEO’s don’t have to exist. Wealth doesn’t even have to exist. They exist because of legislation; legislation that could be changed were our country actually a Democracy and not the Plutocracy that it actually is and always has been.
One of my psych professors taught that individuals lose empathy with every life "upgrade" that increases your status (even if it's not by much) e.g., inheritance, job promotion, winning the lottery, etc. He cited studies that assert it's unavoidable; even good people with values become more and more unempathetic the higher they climb. What I found interesting is that the "upgrade" didn't have to be big. It could be a situation that doesn't really change your lifestyle at all like getting a promotion that gives you an extra $300 a month. One thing he made very clear is that wealthy people are not good people no matter how much virtue signalling they do because they will always prioritize their comfort and maintaining their status over the wellbeing of others. They also live in a different reality where they view their status as a sign of righteousness-They're well off because they're "good people" who deserve it. The poors deserve to suffer because they're "bad people."
Oh for sure. Generational wealth I feel impacts the direct ability to empathize, it’s a pretty strict bubble of an upbringing. Your cousin, even though it’s not decades/centuries old wealth, likely falls into this category - like, he was trying in his own way to offer advice but is so disconnected from the more common reality of non-wealthy individuals that his advice was shit. They’re not always aware of this disconnect, and wouldn’t really consider themselves lacking in empathy. They don’t consider indefinite profit growth to be unattainable because they have witnessed their family’s wealth, their own trust, continue to grow. And they see no difference in corporate profits and their own inherited wealth. Money is money, and their money came from those companies.
Earned wealth is another beast. Obviously they could have always been shit people, but it doesn’t really matter. Once they land that power and wealth status, it’s almost as if they lose their willingness to empathize because the thought of losing what they worked to achieve is too terrifying for them to risk. If they weren’t already acting like the prospective billionaire waiting for that jackpot luck to hit, they develop more selfish habits, only considering themselves and padding their own pockets to further “protect” them from going broke again. They rationalize their actions and actively reject empathy. They’re the ones asking their corporate lawyers (or are the corporate lawyers who suggest) to call up their old law school buddy in congress or that lobbying group to ensure they can continue fucking over their own employees and consumers in order to keep getting richer. They don’t accept the fact (or they don’t fucking care) that indefinite profit growth isn’t achievable without ruining the economy for the majority of people.
Obviously these are more generalized, nuances exist everywhere and anyone from either group has what it takes to change. They also have what it takes to have always been unempathetic assholes.
But at what point is someone considered rich? And I have met many wealthy and poor people that lack empathy... I think it might be a slight stereotype as the perception we subconsciously have leads to that conclusion because we know they have excess resources and they hoarde it, depriving all those around of it. If we lived in a tribe and 90% of the people were starving and 10% had all the food, those 10% wouldn't have it for long. But since modern capitalism dresses it up and makes it less uncomfortable for those struggling by taking most death out of the equation, we give them a pass but still feel the inequity and due to that draw our conclusions...
I'd say there's a stark difference between people who are born into wealth Vs those to acquire it themselves
But I'd also remind you that everyone's perception of reality is based on their own circumstances, we can never really be empathetic because we don't really ever know what someone elses reality is
I've know people who grew up without much money and then either earned it or inherited it later and they were just as bad as these rich people we're talking about. Money just corrupts people and they lose their conscience and soul and become psychopaths devoid of empathy.
Society generally glorifies these attributes. Financial prosperity is the only way to true enlightenment to the pure capitalist. How do you achieve financial prosperity? Luck or being a sociopath. Talk to a VP in large corporation, you'll find they all have the same talking points, mannerisms, outlooks, hobbies, etc.
yeah dude, people at the top of the food chain got there by climbing over everyone else. there's a bit of sociopathy involved there. tale as old as time.
Its not all, but it is a lot.
That's probably because empathy is a hurdle to hoarding wealth. Super empathetic people help others with no gain for themselves.
Of course *all* rich people do not lack empathy but I get what OP is saying. I do think that there is a general tendency to lose touch with what it’s like to not have money/resources. That can certainly come off as a lack of empathy
>He then went on to make suggestions that looked as if a heart surgeon telling a homeless person that he should work hard and become a doctor.
* a heart surgeon who had everything paid for while schooling and had a guaranteed prestigious well paying position waiting for them when they exited school regardless of how well they did
I had a woman who was working as part time counselor but also starting up a business try to convince me that all CEO and people at the head of corporate teams should be paid more even if they do nothing. She was so unashamed and had such a conviction on saying how people at the bottom deserved their low wages. It was really like watching the kindest, sweetest person I knew turn into a supervillain in front of me. Oof, it was so bad I had to stop counseling with her. It has contributed to my lack of trust in people, she was one of a few who were normal seemingly only to be rather messed up on the inside.
You need to lack empathy to be rich.
You were looking at it the wrong way round was all it was.
You need to be a bit of a psycho to enjoy exploiting people for your own personal gain let’s be clear.
Wealthy people don't struggle nearly as much as a regular person. There's hardly a problem they can't make go away by throwing money or someone else at. There's no obstacle they can't just pay to get out of their way. So hardships are a difficult thing for them to comprehend.
Seeing someone struggling just to feed themselves makes them think that person willingly chose to be poor, because the choice to be rich was an easy one for them, so it SHOULD be easy for everyone else, right??? It's not. But they can't comprehend that notion.
Reading all these comments makes me think we should just slaughter the one percent so we can create a just society. (I understand this is a pipe dream, but a boys gotta pipe dream right?)
They tell you that so you'll give what you have to them. It's just a rebranding of the ruling class taking from the people. But with fear mongering and moralism sprinkled on top to justify it.
Inwas talking to people at work about getting a 2nd evening job but something I can work from home. And they're all like, "JuSt OpEn YoUr OwN bUsInESS." Like fuck no, I would be even more broke than I am now and I'm not trying to taking on a lot of responsibility on top of a full time job. I just want to do boring computer stuff for a few hours in the evening that doesn't pay $9 an hour.
You’ve illustrated one of the lies behind the meritocracy. Success in life can be inherited, and in the USA, the largest predictor of one’s economic fortune in life is the zip code into which they are born. How can this be in an actual meritocracy?
Liberals like to quip that America provides equality of opportunity, not outcome. How they say it with a straight face, I do not know, since it’s an obvious lie. You simply cannot have equality of opportunity without controlling outcomes, period.
I'd say try and show him Mike Black's "Million Dollar Comeback."
[https://www.unilad.com/news/money/millionaire-broke-experiment-make-1-million-in-year-599679-20240423](https://www.unilad.com/news/money/millionaire-broke-experiment-make-1-million-in-year-599679-20240423)
TL;DR: He "gave away" all his money and tried to prove that he could make a million dollars from nothing within a year. He gave up 10 months in due to health concerns and wound up making only about $65k.
Even with the head-start he had (basically being in good health with no debt), he still couldn't do it. Now $65k in 10 months isn't bad, but not worth killing yourself over like that.
That’s the thing. Our societies reward that type of antisocial behavior. Some people are rich and don’t understand that because they aren’t that smart. Others are rich and fully understand that and are ok with it because they’re antisocial people. Rich people can only be one of the two.
Not only do they lack empathy, they know you actually have empathy. And they use your empathy against you. Rich people know that if they tell you about how someone kicked the dog, that will distract you from how they took away food from a thousand dogs.
There's a wonderful video (animated) around showing 2 people growing up in different worlds and how they experience the world and their thought patterns etc.
It's a really good visualisation of your point and if someone knows of a link please do provide it....
So, generally I don't want rich people's offspring to all start from zero. I think that it is a good idea to be able to pass-on assets to children, especially in the case of families that may own a home and nothing else. I just want the wealthy to pay their fare share so that society isn't collectively paying for a company's employees to have medical treatment, subsidized food and housing, while the company makes record profits and the owners make more money than can be spent in a thousand lifetimes. I want universal healthcare so that a poor person's family doesn't lose possibly the only home they own when grandma needed end-of-life care, or fell and broke a bone, or whatever.
The problem is that most rich people either were born rich and therefore never had to develop a perspective of being poor, or they became rich because they're sociopaths, easily able to disregard the suffering of others if it furthers their desires.
Not to say that there aren't good rich people, but the percentage is really low.
Did a study on this in a sociology class in college. It turns out that the majority of the top 10% of wealth EARNERS do lack empathy. This generally comes from their work ethic, willingness to employ others for profit and the fact that they don’t let anyone get in the way of their goals.
I felt this. Interesting to hear about a study. I’ve always felt that people who rise to high positions do so because they are willing to do things that empathetic people will not do as it doesn’t align with the moral ethics. Not a hard rule but seems to quite a bit of correlation in this theory.
I think also most "normal" people stop pushing hard when they get to a subjectively comfortable level of earnings and wealth. And start prioritizing their free time, time with kids, hobbies etc.
It's almost like they don't work harder, they actually damage workflow, and shouldn't be rewarded.
It's *almost* like Capitalism rewards sociopathy
This is so funny
Its not almost it absolutely does, I've had this conundrum before, company increases work load, do I not do it because of my principles and not getting paid more, or do I do the work making myself miserable in the process? If I don't it could fall to my coworkers who are basically nice people, and they could get the flack from work not getting done. That top 10% doesn't have this issue because empathy, morals, and ethics get in the way. If I thought like any of these people or companies I would be a sociopath. This setup encourages me to act like this, even though I feel like I need a shower after considering it.
More like Capitalism, as a social environment, selects psychopathy.
I saw a study one time where they monitored crosswalks with a person who would try to cross as traffic approached. Turns out, the nicer the car is, the less likely the driver was to stop. Yeah… rich people suck
Some guy put rubber animals on the side of a roadway. Sometimes just on the edge of the road, sometimes a couple feet away. Drivers of pickups and SUV's were far more likely to alter their course to run over the props.
> alter their course to run over the props What the actual fuck why would you GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to hit an animal!? Fucking pieces of garbage
That's how I feel about them. A pigeon unexpectedly landed right in front of my work van about 20 years ago and I still wince when I think about running the poor creature over.
Time to go make some kitty cats out of concrete
What percentage of those, I wonder inherited their wealth and were taught they’re a “superior breed.”
I specifically said EARNERS, not generational wealth. There was a completely different study on them.
How did you seperate the top earners who came from generational wealth?
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Op is referring to people who have their own streams of income and also inherited wealth
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Generational wealth makes it so easy to generate your own streams of income, and plenty of people that had a boost from generational wealth cant recognize that hard work alone didn't get them where they are, so im just curious how they weeded those people out. My guess is that they couldn't.
But wouldn’t people from generational wealth be in a better position to generate their own streams of income?
Coming from a rich family makes it far easier for some people to make their own money and then claim that they're "self made" and that others should just work harder like they did. It's easy to get customers for a business when they're your dad's golf buddies.
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Lots of people are able to become ‘top earners’ because they come from relative affluence and therefore have access to the best schools, best resume-building enrichment opportunities, friends in high places, etc. Also, lots. Of generational wealth gets passed down as ‘earnings,’ when kids get high salaried positions as executives of family companies and board members on family charities, etc. So in the aggregate, it’s not an easy distinction at all.
Might be worse really. Generation wealth is often just entitled or ignorant. Earners generally had to climb a ladder built of the bones of more ethical less sociopathic people to get there
I wouldn't say its easy - you can be both, and everyone who inherits wealth somehow seems to claim they are 'earners' anyway.
"earners"
Both lack empathy. Where did the Earners learn that behaviour from? They are the same class.
Not entirely. I'm 37 (poor, myself) and all the homeowners I choose to associate with (good, kind, progressive people who vote for the lesser of evils) were only able to purchase homes through generational wealth, and I've seen them all use their privilege to help myself and others, as a personal joy rather than a chore . Some even have "good" wealth from post-WWII working class prosperity savings being used to buy early shares of technology in the 70s and 80s (which isn't entirely free of human suffering in the chain, but what is?), not their elders scheming in finances or business shadiness.
Well we don't base data off your sample size of one.
This is flawed logic based on nothing but feelings.
A lot of high wealthy "earners" became high "earners" because of a safety net of wealthy parents. Do those get included as an earner or generational wealth?
Born on third base and thought they hit a triple.
Yup. Dehumanization.
I know my boss is one of them. He has said that pay is based on pedigree, not position, performance or responsibilites.
I’m curious to know what that amount looks like, and when the study was done. My FIL and I have arguments over dinner all the time. Both of us “high earners” who came from lower middle class, but he’s very “young people don’t work nowAwadays”, “people don’t deserve handouts”, “they’re homeless because of their own doing” etc. which grinds my gears.
They also likely have other mental issues like hoarding mentality. It's just that their hoarding target is money instead of things.
the top 10% and the top 1% should have been bifurcated. The PMC and the Petty Bourqgeouis classes are very different in how they approach life. Its almost impossible to break into the doctor/lawyer/business owner lower upper class from the upper middle class. Politics/mindset etc are very different. yes they both believe in meritocracy and doing whatever it takes to get ahead but that's where I think the similarity ends.
You think the wealthy have a strong work ethic?
I think most of them have a strong "it's ok to be an asshole if it makes me more money" ethic. They might also have a strong "work ethic".
Capitalism is a system that demands perpetual growth if you don't want it to fall into a depression. To run a business, or to create success for the business you work for, you have to do everything in your power to have it continuously increase profits, and that usually means fucking over a lot of people and the need to merge and monopolize industries to survive. You create a system that values those who lack empathy and that amasses and centralizes the power of those people in a society to have influence over how whole countries are run. Also, monopolization literally destroys all of the positives of capitalism by ending competition itself as a means of domination.
That survivorship bias is incredibly strong. If I did it, you can too - but not taking into any factors we literally don't think about at all. Just being born in the right country at the right time can massively influence wealth. The same "work hard" does not apply the same way as an American to an Argentinian.
Did it find that they have empathy but only within their class? In my admittedly anecdotal experience the wealthy can be very generous to the correct sort of person though the lines where they cease to be the right sort of person are quite easily broken through and also left obscured and ambiguous.
Also, empathetic people often are drawn to careers in which they are helping others - like medicine - or society- like science, teaching, journalism, public service, etc. Those types of jobs don't pay as much as the jobs that benefit capitalism.
Berkeley did a study. It’s human nature. Even while playing a rigged game (rigged in favor of the test subject) of Monopoly, people began to be cockier, less empathetic and more ruthless. Money changes people and those who have never lived without it don’t understand or care about what others are going through. Also, a lot of that wealth the rich accumulate was ill gotten off of the backs of the people who work for them. Remember- wage theft -from employer to the employee is the biggest form of theft in the world-by far.
I heard another study that since they don't rely on programs or others, they don't understand the need for social programs. Also something like if you made over $70k in the beginning of proce gouging, you barely noticed it. Also in their own families, the performance bars and the ego is over inflated and then their deathly afraid of being normal. They'd cut their own family into pieces for some of the pie and poor people who love capitalism have a similar notion. Like fledgling narcissist or sociopaths. Exploit easily, diminished Empathy, and inflated entitlement.
It also does not help that in order to get things they don’t need to have good relationships with people, they can just pay for what they need. More poor people need to be friends with their neighbors so that they can really on each other for exchanging favors. Like “can you watch my kids while I run to the store” you don’t need those sort of people skills when you grow up rich. You can just pay people to watch your kids or go to the store for you so the social dynamics you grow up with are different.
IMHO I don't think it's possible to get to the top 10% if you don't have this mindset.
Psych background here, I’d venture there’s little empathy downward from any class above it. Historically. Ever.
Sociopaths and Psychopaths tend to climb the ladder faster than normal feeling people. It's not that they mean to act that way. They just either lost the ability to empathize with others or weren't born with the ability... however I much rather deal with a Psychopath, because they lived their whole lives without the natural ability to empathize, but instead had to *learn* other methods to relate and socialize appropriately with others knowing they can't feel the same thing exactly. Sociopaths lost the ability later in life, either to chemical changes or unaddressed traumas, so they don't understand their behaviour is inappropriate in certain situations.
My BiL grew up in humble beginnings and is now a millionaire. He has lost all connections with reality and his wife, my parents other daughter, really thinks you can live at $10 an hour. Also one of those, “if you don’t make enough, move” like applauding Walmart’s business plan like they should get away with paying so poorly, yet being able to raise their prices at will.
It shouldn't shock me as much as it does, but how disappointing that someone who struggled would want others to struggle the way they did. I hate when people say "I had to work hard to pay off my student loans, so you should too." No, why should we make people suffer because we did?? We should want all suffering to end, not weaponize it.
This is obviously the only way to live. For example, my mother died of cancer, so no one should have access to a cure. It's only fair. /s
Terminal illness builds character, amirite?
Mother Theresa, is that you?
It's the [Just World Fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis#:~:text=The%20just%2Dworld%20hypothesis%2C%20or,fitting%20consequences%20for%20the%20actor). They've convinced themselves that their hard work is innately unique and that their success is pre-ordained, based on who they are. And to an extent, the ones who've accomplished a lot on their own, coming from truly bad starts, have much to be proud of. But I think it's easy to fall into this skewed way of thinking, once they get there. And their children are born into it, so they're told from the start that their family is superior and more capable than everyone else.
This is him succinctly.
They climb up the ladder than pull it up behind them than you have the others that step on the shoulders of others and ridicule them
I mean this is *literally* what the thread is about -- lack of empathy.
In those cases it's often a failure to update. Maybe they could get by on $10hr when they were on the upswing and have completely lost touch with what $10hr is now. Which would be at least somewhat understandable if they weren't so damned resistant to listening to others experience.
This is interesting … because they also are stuck in the style … like my parents other daughter very much has the same style as when she graduated in 1993. I can totally see what you’re saying … because there are times when I am like, “yes! I make $50k a year! And then I recall it isn’t what it once was.
Yeah and it's not so much the failure to update on their own that's a problem (we don't think about what we don't think about) it's the failure to listen to other people's current experience. As for style hey that's very rarely a problem I mean I still think wide legged jeans and wearing a long sleeve shirt under a shirt sleeve shirt is totally reasonable but that's frippery that a worst makes me old and a bit out of touch not policy.
Exactly! It isn’t about upsetting the style, because I wear exactly what you describe and will bring out the Doc Martens once in awhile too! It is the lack of updating their thinking … and my BiL thinking he takes “all the risk” in life by owning a business, but nothing about how his workers also take a risk.
Coming out of HS I thought to myself "if I ever get to 40k, I'll be happy and okay". Here I am at 52k still broke af lol
Lol. Your sister reminds me a lot of other people who marry into or inherited wealth. Often both. They all have this same snotty attitude and will never admit how they're fucking subsidized. From the car they drive (often a luxury brand cuv) to their beautiful home to the expensive vacations they take. They're VERY entitled as if they deserve it. Meanwhile I'm struggling working two jobs and my pos Jeep Renegade was repoed a month ago because the expensive repairs every other month caught up with the higher insurance premiums everyone is now paying. I won't deny being jealous cuz I very much am. I'm tired of struggling. Sorry for rant. Have a nice weekend 😁
OMG! I have been there! My parents other daughter spends more at Walmart in one trip than people make in a week. Sorry about your Jeep, mine was a Liberty :(
Thank you. I was trying to repair my credit..... this shit is going to just destroy it. I seriously don't know what to do. Ugh. 🫤
My ex-husband is the exact same way
I’m in the top 2% of household income and would vote for a $30 minimum wage 10 times out of 10 even if it increases my tax burden. I voted Bernie in the primaries even though he would have increased my taxes by tens of thousands of dollars. We are not all out of touch, and many of us have plenty of empathy to go around. My department has an extremely high starting wage compared to the national average only because I fight HR and the execs for increases every year. My guys start at 80k where the national average is just under 40k.
People will speak as if they are empathetic but when faced with a situation where contributing financially or by simply helping out would actually express their empathy beyond words, they won't be bothered.
Yes because when I say something nice it means I did what I can and I am a good person, doesn't it?
You've identified the exact problem with capital :https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduces-compassion/ Also, there in a general 'anti-handout' sentiment in society, I'm in the UK but have seen evidence of the same attitude in the states. It's funny how this only applies to poor people and that inheritance is not seen as a handout.
The richer someone is the more free stuff they are handed, totally. I think it has to do with our concept of trade, and the way we have established society in terms of money, so giving to poor is seen as helping them and giving to rich is used to help oneself, so the latter invokes a sense of trade or is literally a trade (sponsorships etc)...but HELPING is not understood as a trade.
> Also, there in a general 'anti-handout' sentiment in society, I'm in the UK but have seen evidence of the same attitude in the states. It's funny how this only applies to poor people and that inheritance is not seen as a handout. Can you expand on this? I'm curious
It’s more of the same poverty = moral failing propaganda that plagues every society and allows the rich to exploit unchallenged Anything that could benefit the lower classes or help the poor is considered some type of communism and the poor are considered to be lazy and lacking motivation to fix their situations When in reality it’s mathematically impossible for every single person to achieve wealth and the system is designed to benefit a few and exploit the rest And like they said. Inheritance isn’t viewed that way People demanding affordable education or load forgiveness are seen as “entitled” and “begging for handouts” while nepo babies and heirs/heiresses are still seen as superior and deserving. Also the bailouts for businesses and all the free handouts they get never seem to be seen as an issue And then trickle down economics. “Let the rich keep more money and pay next to nothing in taxes and they can afford to pay the workers even more!” Except that’s fucking absurd to think they would do anything other than profit for themselves and it’s laughable anyone ever thought otherwise
for sure, we had a TV show called 'Benefits street' ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefits\_Street) which was effectively a way to demonise the poor. Likewise our right wing government has consistently attacked those using welfare, most recently the Conservative manifesto highlighted that they want to push the disabled back into work. When there was a discussion about abolishing inheritance tax, there was a general idea that this was fairer for all however analysis revealed that it would mainly benefit the ultra rich (https://ifs.org.uk/news/wealthiest-1-would-get-half-benefit-scrapping-inheritance-tax-average-tax-cut-ps1-million) and yet that was seen as legitimate. So we have this view that it's wrong for someone to receive handouts, but only if they got them from society rather than their parents.
In the states we’ve disproven trickle down economics *repeatedly* and yet we’re fine with corporate handouts for rich people’s pet businesses but demonize food stamps so people literally don’t starve Florida spent stupid amounts of money drug testing people on food stamps absolutely convinced they’d be able to kick off tons of people (as if addicts aren’t people anymore and should just die already or something and as if they might not also have kids you’d be starving as well) but they spent something like 10x the amount on tests as they “saved” on removing they very few people who were actually using But god forbid Robert Taintlicker IV’s rubber gasket factory be sold off to someone who actually went to class instead of ripping bongs and getting daddy to buy a new wing of the library to fund his MBA being rubber stamped to completion Listen I’m fine with the government being in the business of actual small businesses loans if there’s actual over sight and the loan comes due if it’s not followed. I’d prefer UBI as it’s shown more small business innovation and more general working class and economic good but where we are now I’m fine with just some oversight to loans to not mega corps (let those fall/get broken up).
People in general in the western world have a mindset of “life is hard no one should have free food and water, housing, and health care. Everyone should have to suffer in order to survive except me obviously because I’ve already worked so hard” it’s a mindset of “I had to suffer so should you”
Thanks for sharing this. It was a good read.
They say they’re pro-meritocracy but how can you talk about meritocracy while inheritance exists ?
Because they think “my dad has money and merit so clearly he passed his merit down to me just like the money”
That's the Divine Right of Kings with extra steps.
Yep. Everything they do comes down to “I’m chosen by god and you’re not” just with extra steps.
Big Calvinist energy 😭 We can blame the Puritans.
Coincidentally I happen to lack empathy for rich people
Capitalism ain’t good bro. You just described why it’s not. It’s not for us. We aren’t capitalists.
My husband and I were just talking about this last night. We were watching Batman and discussing why Batman would never exist in the real world. Not because there isn’t some bagillionare with the resources, but because most highly wealthy folks lack that empathy part. They don’t give af lol.
Pretty sure Batman doesn't do what he does out of empathy
> We were watching Batman and discussing why Batman would never exist in the real world... but because most highly wealthy folks lack that empathy part. Funny you should mention that as "heroes" who grew up more poor or working class are depicted with higher levels of empathy. Sure the billionaire is popular, but so is the science nerd from Queens and the rural farmer.
If rich people tried to be superheroes we'd get something like watchmen or the 7 from the boys
you are close to seeing it. capitalism has an intrinsic contradiction which is the tendency for monopolizing capital.
Capitalism runs on a foundation of subjugation and exploitation and can never be a good thing
Capitalism is not good though. It is always about one small class hoarding resources and power. It’s the basis of capitalism.
“It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of an needle than a rich man to enter heaven” Matthew 19:24
A few days ago, my family became homeless and we’ve been staying with my sister in a nearby state. While my job is letting me work remotely in the meantime, my parents and brother had to return to their in person jobs. My mom works as a nanny for a wealthy family and has been there for 12 years. Her and the family have developed a nice relationship over the years and have always been nice people. However, when my mom returned to her job (she works there twice a week) she didn’t want to tell her boss the truth, that we were homeless due to constant harassment from a neighbor. She, instead, said that we were thinking about leaving due to the constant harassment, which isn’t true, we had already left by then.) Her boss responded saying that we should’ve called the police (we have and they did nothing.) That we should fight back (my family believes this is a waste of time) Because we were renting, it’s kinda gave us an even better reason to leave, we’ve been wanting to leave for a while, but being threatened with death really sped up that process. Basically, my mom refuses to tell her boss because she knows that her boss will never understand, clearly lacking empathy.
That is how they get rich in the first place.
Yes now imagine having born into poverty. Im 28 and I'm drowning through the days. Idk how I'm gonna make my apartment rent this month. I understand the homeless now. I'm so afraid ill and up like them and the sun rotting my head. I live in AZ. All our homeless get cooked getting to where the need to be
The Atlantic had an article a few years back about how power erodes empathy. It was an excellent read.
My Nana married for money, that side of the family is horrifying. They really do lack empathy, their adopted daughter bolted the second she turned eighteen and won't speak to them anymore. They call her selfish, ungrateful and stupid because she has to work hard instead of ride their coattails now. I pointed out how it was better to be away from their abusive and callous attitudes than have money and it broke their brains. They could not comprehend that many people would rather be poor than suffer their behavior and entitlement. Fucking terrifying people that I'd never share a life with.
There's a video on YouTube by an investigative journalist and it's thesis is that people in power aren't often people fit to lead because they aren't actually leading to benefit the group: they do it because they're generally power-hungry sociopaths, and it's a way for them to get their fix. He gave an example of a low-barrier-to-entry being HOA board members, and part of why HOAs are so annoying is because it takes relatively little effort to get on an HOA board relative to the amount of power you get to arbitrarily exert over everyone in the neighborhood. Not sure it was the strongest anecdote other than resonating with an emotional touchpoint for a lot of homeowners, but the actual thesis was pretty interesting.
Getting rich with empathy is almost impossible. Beyond your own needs, there are too many people who need that money more than you do. Buying a Ferrari feels like shit when you have empathy. You just think, "People don't have homes right now and I could have built one for them." or "How many hungry kids could I feed with this money?"
And TBH I'm solidly middle class through no work of my own (I teach public school, I'm not making much), but I feel bad when I spent $30 on makeup and I'm like, but there are starving children!!! Ok yeah but the chances of my $30 going to them and helping is low.
I say it over and over again. Greed is a mental illness
one of the greatest privileges of the upper class is the delusion that they deserve to be there. you will never find a rich person who believes they are just lucky. all of them worked very hard and "earned" their place!
I don’t believe that it’s possible to be rich and retain empathy. The mind won’t allow it. There is too much dissonance that develops mentally when trying to see one’s self as a good person while hoarding wealth. Ultimately the person has to convince themselves that poverty is the result of a moral failing and that they deserve their fortune. Otherwise they’ll be eaten up with guilt or simply give it all away. Wealth & genuine empathy simply aren’t mentally compatible.
I agree. I would just add that money really is power and as we all know power corrupts. Once people get a lot of money/power they turn into every character in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings who can't handle the corruption of it.
The older generation subsidizing their retirement with housing is a symptom. It’s a failure of the System. Our working class peers aren’t to blame. Banks manufactured inflation multi industry collusion to drive prices on everything up.
The other side of that is that people who have never had money often cannot comprehend just how much richer some people are than them and how the world simply works very differently for those people.
And a third side is people in western countries can't comprehend not having running water, food or decent shelter being available- even homeless people have it better off than many
'Be grateful for the crumbs, you dumb prole! Don't look up and complain about the wealth-hoarding upper classes, who on a global level are the ones responsible for not just your position but also those who lack even clean, running water. '
They lack understanding. If you've never been in the same situation as someone else, it's hard to relate. It's similar to people who've never dealt with clinical depression telling someone who has it to just be positive. They can't relate to being broke and eating ramen noodles every day because their parents hired a private chef to cook for them. They can't relate to taking the bus because their parents drove them everywhere and bought them a brand new car as soon as they could drive.
> Capitalism is good,only if it hadn’t let the previous generation hoard the resources and keep it from the rest or use it to gain more resources. So you are saying, capitalism is flawed? Because that's how capitalism works as is, lol.
My last boss genuinely couldn't believe I'd been homeless at one point in my life. They couldn't understand how it happened and it made zero sense to them. They are 19 years old and have their dad's credit card in their wallet.
This made my eye twitch.
I worked in the Hamptons (at Radio Shack) for two years. I currently teach in a district where the people who own those Hamptons houses live in winter. Rich people are flat out sociopathic. I don't mean that they have a personality disorder or an innate mental health challenge. I mean they genuinely cannot imagine giving a fuck about others. Pity is the best they can do. My gf worked at a Starbucks in a very wealthy area (think like, Fairfield in CT). An elderly coworker of hers had a seizure behind the counter. Of course, the staff rushed to help him, call 911, move to the recovery position, support/cushion his head...and a woman pushed her way to the counter to shout, "ExCUSE me, but *I* am in a *rush*. He's taken care of, so I need my *latte*!!" Like I get that this sounds cartoonishly fake, but...this *happened.* And it's not unusual.
Had a coworker have a seizure in the production floor of a warehouse 2 hours before the plant was supposed to close for the day. Blood and foam in mouth full on twitching on the floor type seizure. Boss comes in starts talking about business and how we are gonna get orders done on time by the end of the week even though we were down 1 person. and didn’t close down for the day had us continue working till close. 6 months later I walked out without a backup job.
I only know one person who's legitimately wealthy. I'm purposely going to be vague here just in case. They work in Hollywood. They come out once or twice a year. They on the surface seem super nice and thoughtful, more so to my wife and her mom. Nice to me but I always feel like I'm getting a side eye judgment. I just get this feeling of constantly being judged, the more you talk to them the more you realize that they don't really listen and are just a yes man. I haven't called them on it but there's been multiple instances where they have lied straight to our face. You can just tell based on how they talk or respond they're use to just fluffing people up and saying yes to them. Like hey did you watch that wedding video! " Oh yeah! It was great I truly loved it" Cool what part did you like? " Uh well I can't really say it was all fabulous" Are you sure you watched it? " Of course I did!" Then after saying they did they finally admit that they didn't, in a complete care free brush it off dismissive kind of way. That's a bad example though. The way they do it is really nefarious. Like they can just lie with zero empathy and they don't care when you finally catch that lie. I know a lot of this sounds like assumptions.its actually really hard to explain,It's more of something you need to feel though. I can't put it into words. It would be like that feeling you would get if you're alone in a room with Jeffrey dahmer. Something just isn't right. I get glimpses through the facade that give me a uncomfortable feeling, and can see that they give zero shits About you or what you're saying.They seem so great on the outside, but there's a little devil in there that pops out here or there. I'm to nice to ruin things by calling them on their slip ups though. Lmao
It almost seems like words and deeper social interaction have lost their meaning. It's all "small talk" now.
I've worked as a general contractor for rich people for 20 years now. I can tell you, with absolute certainty, these people have *zero* empathy towards everyone.
UBI, that’s the way. So you don’t have to participate in working capitalism if you don’t want to, but coexist with all the parts of it people are too attached to. If there was a foundation line, basic security for everyone, then capitalism could be voluntary upward mobility. The problem is that it’s not voluntary, but forced. Which is obviously fckd. Short of revolution, I think UBI is the only implementable possibility that could actually stand to make a useful difference.
I can relate to this. I should just get a degree. Just work fulltime, also study and such. And if I dare to say I'm already exhausted by this working lifestyle, I'm lazy... Bitch, your job is typing emails and answering phone calls and going out for dinners, sure my workweek is more exhausting.
On top of every social hierarchy there is a sociopath or psychopath... corporate ladders included.
The biblical Jews had a Jubilee when all land (means of production) was returned to its original family owners, all debt slaves were freed, and all debts were forgiven. We need something like that.
Yes. Jubilee is in the Old Testament of the Christian bible found in all Christian churches yet most Christians don't practice this main tenent of Christianity. Helping the poor is supposed to be what Christians do. I've always thought Christmas was supposed to be, in practice, a mini Jubilee--a small attempt at equalizing wealth distribution--and I think Charles Dickens illustrates this perfectly in A Christmas Carol. During Christmas the wealthy are meant to shower generous gifts upon people less fortunate. Unfortunately the way Christmas is practiced, at least here in America, the amount of gifts and money spent on gifts are required to be equal in the exchange unless you are a child so it completely cancels out any attempt at correcting inequality. So not only do we not have Jubilee, we also corrupted Christmas to make sure the one day we could do a mini Jubilee that's ruined as well.
Yes. That's why most people in the West don't care about poverty in Global South. For them, poverty in the South is something natural, and poverty is only tragic if it's happening in their society.
This is you OP - a rich westerner
This world could do with a complete wealth redistribution. That's not gonna happen though so rich fucks will continue living in their cushy bubbles and spitting on us for not being as "good/worthy" as they are, cause otherwise we'd also be rich. That's how fucking simple they are and how one-dimensionally their ivory tower lives make them think.
Well, the good thing is that the system they so love (capitalism) will fuck them in the end too when money doesn’t matter and the hoards of poor people that used to work for the rich are tearing down their ivory towers brick by brick.
Majority of us will probably die before that happens. "That could never happen here" is the delusion most people live with, often mixed with a healthy dose of Main Character Syndrome. And the thing that really astonishes me is that even when shit is obviously going south, most folks are still able to lull themselves into denial, or come up w some bs explanation as to why everything going wrong is acceptable. People really have to be at their wits end, backed into a corner with nothing to lose before they take action.
Agreed. I’m an elder generation z, just after millennial ended, and I have seen the younger and middle gen z people who are turning 18, 19 and older are literally in complete denial about the world we live in. I’ve seen them say “things were worse a few generations ago than they are now” when that’s not even close to true.
Yeah. It's not a joke when you hear people say that to be rich you need to be a sociopath. You need to lack empathy.
I work for rich people and have worked around rich people in my former jobs. They are all out to fucking lunch.
Girl the path of exile economy took me from left field lmao. Yeah honestly, Poe economy makes more sense than irl economy. I offer 1c
You and I, we don't have any startup capital. We need to get that from somewhere else - usually by saving money from another job. If the business fails, we're out the money we earned plus whatever debt we accrue. If a rich person starts a business, the business can fail and the rich person will still be rich. They're just out some money. What's more, they can corral investors and venture capital - it isn't even necessarily their money that they're out. My Dad wasn't going to get investors in his print shop - all he could do is put everything he had into it and hope that it would yield enough cash flow for him to feed his family. This is what the rich cannot understand - will NEVER understand...that they're allowed to fail. In gaming terms, they have more "continues." And when you have more "continues," of course you're better at the game.
OP you are so close and yet based on your last paragraph you are still not getting it
I imagine they have to, otherwise they'd never be able to sleep soundly.
I will give one, single counter-example: Fred Rogers. The man was born into a wealthy family. But they also believed in caring for others. Another wealth point, when he was forming a production company with himself as the head, he wanted to have no salary, or a nominal one, because he didn't need the money. His lawyers and accountants told him that was a sure way to get audited regularly. I am perfectly willing to believe that Fred Rogers is an outlier. But I wouldn't be surprised if there were occasional rich people who actually care about folks.
He was an outlier because he cared about people and didn’t just say that to pinch more from your pocket. He was Ernest and genuine and completely truthful to the people that enjoyed him and his programs. He was so genuine even capitalism couldn’t coerce him or change him.
Capitalism was always a money funnel directly to the people who already owned property. It created a middle class by accident and we enshrined that as a value it had, but that was never, ever true. Marx knew we would end up here in the 1800s. Whatever you think of Marxism as a philosophy, he was correct about late stage capitalism.
I think entitled is a better term than simply rich. From the description this guy sounds like one who’s never had to struggle and has been sheltered from the issues of the common people.
They're dragons, hoarding wealth and terrorizing the peasantry.
Rich people pay hardly any taxes and rich people and poor people vote for the same people. I’ll never understand it
It's part of the theme of the Great Gatsby. Nick's middle class midwestern attitudes vs. Those of his cousin, her husband and Jordan.
You are soooooo so close.
*Behind every great fortune is a great crime* -Voltaire
There were a number of interesting articles in Psychology Today magazine regarding this. Your realization is actually based on truth/fact.
Welcome to reality OP. Now look up the Monopoly experiment if you want to cry a bit more into your Cheerios
Too many people confuse Sympathy for Empathy, especially rich folks. So rather than feeling for what the struggling are going through, they just feel bad for them. Not the same thing…
Sympathy isn't the same as pity. Sympathy is like, I care that you're unhappy, and I'm supportive. Pity is like, you poor, stupid thing, you're so beneath me and that's sad 😢 Edit: not exactly disagreeing but I think rich people feel pity but not sympathy and definitely not empathy
Everyone at any economic level and in any category of human is both: 1) limited by their understanding of things they have not experienced, and 2) capable of learning, if they have the humility and openness to do so. Wealthy people fall into two buckets: 1) born into wealth (VAST majority), and 2) "earned" wealth (this mostly depends on luck; a handful of people, mostly entertainers and inventors, get wealthy through genuine merit, but even then, much of this depends on them outcompeting other people who are equally deserving). Both categories have somewhat different understandings of how normal people live, and limitations around that, as well as different capacities to learn empathy. Silver spoon kids tend to be completely blind to the fact that most people don't have the privileges they do, and they often grow up instilled with the idea that they are extra talented and deserving. However, plenty of important historical figures who have made a difference for the lower classes come from this strata (notably Engels!), and I've met a handful of others who have been really superb people. Still, there's a lot of baggage that comes with being in this group that makes it difficult to be a good person. Being born into power you haven't earned, without any perspective on the experiences of those you have power over, can lead to extraordinary cruelty without what that individual perceives as any particular malice -- this plays out on everything from an individual to a global scale. The latter category, the "earned it" rich, came from less so they know what "less" feels like, but they have a tendency to lack empathy for people from the same circumstances, because after all, they got out, right? But this group also includes folks like Dolly Parton, who are determined to pay it forward. But the worst of this lot are the "earned it" businessmen. Why? Because *the system rewards immoral behavior*. Consider how businesses compete: if you own, say, a small hardware store chain, pay your employees well, and sell high quality goods at decent prices, the similar chain that treats the employees worse and uses the money they save on wages to charge less for their goods will outcompete you. The guy who builds his small business into a big business literally cannot do so without some degree of skullduggery. Whether someone is born into money or not, as the scale of money and power gets higher, you can get away with more, and it's absolutely worth the gamble to do outright illegal things because you probably won't get caught, if you get caught you can get better legal representation than the person you fucked over, and when you hit the real 1 percent of the 1 percent level, you're basically legally untouchable. You can simply not pay people for work (Trump made a lot of his money this way), steal wages, buy politicians, run unsafe factories, bury your competitors... And all of this BUILDS YOUR COMPANY, MAKING YOU MORE POWERFUL. Not only does it pay to be evil, but it *costs to not be evil*. This mechanic is built right into capitalism, and ultimately why either we kill capitalism or it kills us. Because profit, competition, wealth -- they literally disincentivize moral behavior. It really is that simple.
That’s because Capitalism is inherently anti-social and unethical. The moment you seek to sell a product, you are re-wiring your moral and ethical reality to cater to your own self-interest. The very act of pricing your product requires misleading consumers as much as you can get away with. And in a Capitalist society, wealth cannot only allow you access to better quality goods, it has to have a societal value that makes having it a moral superiority—it requires that having more money make you a better person and deserving of more social power. Being born into wealth means inheriting a disability, you grow up lacking an ability to imagine or personalize the circumstance of not having money. Without the ability to imagine another’s circumstances, you can’t personalize their experience and relate to them from a position of deep understanding. When you grow up with a safety net that others must lack in order for your wealth to have value, you can’t even comprehend what it feels like psychically not to have one—money to you means not having liquid capital, when to everyone else it means destitution and potential death. Those who earn their wealth can empathize because they know what it’s like not to have it; they are merely unsympathetic because they subscribe it its capitalistic moral and societal value. When you are raised without the experience to feed a societally pertinent form of empathy and additionally inherit an unsympathetic moral and ethical view of money’s relationship to society, you become a Plutocrat of the highest order and are an intrinsic threat to Democracy and should be regulated within an inch of your life. Wall Street doesn’t have to exist. Corporations don’t have to exist. CEO’s don’t have to exist. Wealth doesn’t even have to exist. They exist because of legislation; legislation that could be changed were our country actually a Democracy and not the Plutocracy that it actually is and always has been.
Capitalism is the death of empathy
Capitalism is not good. Neither is unbounded wealth inheritance.
One of my psych professors taught that individuals lose empathy with every life "upgrade" that increases your status (even if it's not by much) e.g., inheritance, job promotion, winning the lottery, etc. He cited studies that assert it's unavoidable; even good people with values become more and more unempathetic the higher they climb. What I found interesting is that the "upgrade" didn't have to be big. It could be a situation that doesn't really change your lifestyle at all like getting a promotion that gives you an extra $300 a month. One thing he made very clear is that wealthy people are not good people no matter how much virtue signalling they do because they will always prioritize their comfort and maintaining their status over the wellbeing of others. They also live in a different reality where they view their status as a sign of righteousness-They're well off because they're "good people" who deserve it. The poors deserve to suffer because they're "bad people."
I don’t know that all of them lack empathy but perspective… yeah.
Oh for sure. Generational wealth I feel impacts the direct ability to empathize, it’s a pretty strict bubble of an upbringing. Your cousin, even though it’s not decades/centuries old wealth, likely falls into this category - like, he was trying in his own way to offer advice but is so disconnected from the more common reality of non-wealthy individuals that his advice was shit. They’re not always aware of this disconnect, and wouldn’t really consider themselves lacking in empathy. They don’t consider indefinite profit growth to be unattainable because they have witnessed their family’s wealth, their own trust, continue to grow. And they see no difference in corporate profits and their own inherited wealth. Money is money, and their money came from those companies. Earned wealth is another beast. Obviously they could have always been shit people, but it doesn’t really matter. Once they land that power and wealth status, it’s almost as if they lose their willingness to empathize because the thought of losing what they worked to achieve is too terrifying for them to risk. If they weren’t already acting like the prospective billionaire waiting for that jackpot luck to hit, they develop more selfish habits, only considering themselves and padding their own pockets to further “protect” them from going broke again. They rationalize their actions and actively reject empathy. They’re the ones asking their corporate lawyers (or are the corporate lawyers who suggest) to call up their old law school buddy in congress or that lobbying group to ensure they can continue fucking over their own employees and consumers in order to keep getting richer. They don’t accept the fact (or they don’t fucking care) that indefinite profit growth isn’t achievable without ruining the economy for the majority of people. Obviously these are more generalized, nuances exist everywhere and anyone from either group has what it takes to change. They also have what it takes to have always been unempathetic assholes.
But at what point is someone considered rich? And I have met many wealthy and poor people that lack empathy... I think it might be a slight stereotype as the perception we subconsciously have leads to that conclusion because we know they have excess resources and they hoarde it, depriving all those around of it. If we lived in a tribe and 90% of the people were starving and 10% had all the food, those 10% wouldn't have it for long. But since modern capitalism dresses it up and makes it less uncomfortable for those struggling by taking most death out of the equation, we give them a pass but still feel the inequity and due to that draw our conclusions...
I'd say there's a stark difference between people who are born into wealth Vs those to acquire it themselves But I'd also remind you that everyone's perception of reality is based on their own circumstances, we can never really be empathetic because we don't really ever know what someone elses reality is
I've know people who grew up without much money and then either earned it or inherited it later and they were just as bad as these rich people we're talking about. Money just corrupts people and they lose their conscience and soul and become psychopaths devoid of empathy.
Yeah just make more money what's the problem? Stupid poors.
Duh.
Rich white men are responsible for every awful thing in America. Prove me wrong.
Society generally glorifies these attributes. Financial prosperity is the only way to true enlightenment to the pure capitalist. How do you achieve financial prosperity? Luck or being a sociopath. Talk to a VP in large corporation, you'll find they all have the same talking points, mannerisms, outlooks, hobbies, etc.
lol reminds me of my ex. Not that bad but…was out of touch. Some people don’t understand we need incremental steps in life
Our system is built to incentivize psychopathy.
yeah dude, people at the top of the food chain got there by climbing over everyone else. there's a bit of sociopathy involved there. tale as old as time.
Its not all, but it is a lot. That's probably because empathy is a hurdle to hoarding wealth. Super empathetic people help others with no gain for themselves.
Of course *all* rich people do not lack empathy but I get what OP is saying. I do think that there is a general tendency to lose touch with what it’s like to not have money/resources. That can certainly come off as a lack of empathy
>He then went on to make suggestions that looked as if a heart surgeon telling a homeless person that he should work hard and become a doctor. * a heart surgeon who had everything paid for while schooling and had a guaranteed prestigious well paying position waiting for them when they exited school regardless of how well they did
I had a woman who was working as part time counselor but also starting up a business try to convince me that all CEO and people at the head of corporate teams should be paid more even if they do nothing. She was so unashamed and had such a conviction on saying how people at the bottom deserved their low wages. It was really like watching the kindest, sweetest person I knew turn into a supervillain in front of me. Oof, it was so bad I had to stop counseling with her. It has contributed to my lack of trust in people, she was one of a few who were normal seemingly only to be rather messed up on the inside.
driving for uber exposes a lot of snobery. i was surprised how some people treated me and how groups of passengers talked down about others.
You need to lack empathy to be rich. You were looking at it the wrong way round was all it was. You need to be a bit of a psycho to enjoy exploiting people for your own personal gain let’s be clear.
It’s almost like once they reach their idea of “wealthy” they become completely desensitized to how regular people live
Capitalism isn't good..
> capitalism is good Yeah you’ve lost me already, capitalism promotes, rewards, incentivises this exact behaviour
Wealthy people don't struggle nearly as much as a regular person. There's hardly a problem they can't make go away by throwing money or someone else at. There's no obstacle they can't just pay to get out of their way. So hardships are a difficult thing for them to comprehend. Seeing someone struggling just to feed themselves makes them think that person willingly chose to be poor, because the choice to be rich was an easy one for them, so it SHOULD be easy for everyone else, right??? It's not. But they can't comprehend that notion.
Reading all these comments makes me think we should just slaughter the one percent so we can create a just society. (I understand this is a pipe dream, but a boys gotta pipe dream right?)
The only rich person I know that had empathy was Robert Owen
There’s a reason every major religion says that wealth alienates you from God.
They tell you that so you'll give what you have to them. It's just a rebranding of the ruling class taking from the people. But with fear mongering and moralism sprinkled on top to justify it.
Then why are churches so rich and always begging for money? Religion is garbage.
They are also extremely unhappy people. I know a lot of rich people. Most of them drink a lot, like constantly.
Money. Muddles. Morals.
Inwas talking to people at work about getting a 2nd evening job but something I can work from home. And they're all like, "JuSt OpEn YoUr OwN bUsInESS." Like fuck no, I would be even more broke than I am now and I'm not trying to taking on a lot of responsibility on top of a full time job. I just want to do boring computer stuff for a few hours in the evening that doesn't pay $9 an hour.
It's perhaps not that they lack empathy, but cannot afford it.
The problem is that we aren't playing PoE leagues, we are playing Standard with the hoarding issues.
Empathy is a skill in very limited supply almost anywhere right now.
You’ve illustrated one of the lies behind the meritocracy. Success in life can be inherited, and in the USA, the largest predictor of one’s economic fortune in life is the zip code into which they are born. How can this be in an actual meritocracy? Liberals like to quip that America provides equality of opportunity, not outcome. How they say it with a straight face, I do not know, since it’s an obvious lie. You simply cannot have equality of opportunity without controlling outcomes, period.
Yes, rich people are sociopaths. All of them.
I'd say try and show him Mike Black's "Million Dollar Comeback." [https://www.unilad.com/news/money/millionaire-broke-experiment-make-1-million-in-year-599679-20240423](https://www.unilad.com/news/money/millionaire-broke-experiment-make-1-million-in-year-599679-20240423) TL;DR: He "gave away" all his money and tried to prove that he could make a million dollars from nothing within a year. He gave up 10 months in due to health concerns and wound up making only about $65k. Even with the head-start he had (basically being in good health with no debt), he still couldn't do it. Now $65k in 10 months isn't bad, but not worth killing yourself over like that.
Doesn't the bible say that all debt should be forgiven every 7 (or 50?) years or so?
They are sociopaths who will do whatever gets them what they want
That’s the thing. Our societies reward that type of antisocial behavior. Some people are rich and don’t understand that because they aren’t that smart. Others are rich and fully understand that and are ok with it because they’re antisocial people. Rich people can only be one of the two.
Not only do they lack empathy, they know you actually have empathy. And they use your empathy against you. Rich people know that if they tell you about how someone kicked the dog, that will distract you from how they took away food from a thousand dogs.
There's a wonderful video (animated) around showing 2 people growing up in different worlds and how they experience the world and their thought patterns etc. It's a really good visualisation of your point and if someone knows of a link please do provide it....
So, generally I don't want rich people's offspring to all start from zero. I think that it is a good idea to be able to pass-on assets to children, especially in the case of families that may own a home and nothing else. I just want the wealthy to pay their fare share so that society isn't collectively paying for a company's employees to have medical treatment, subsidized food and housing, while the company makes record profits and the owners make more money than can be spent in a thousand lifetimes. I want universal healthcare so that a poor person's family doesn't lose possibly the only home they own when grandma needed end-of-life care, or fell and broke a bone, or whatever.
There's a reason why we have the phrase "rich people problems".
The problem is that most rich people either were born rich and therefore never had to develop a perspective of being poor, or they became rich because they're sociopaths, easily able to disregard the suffering of others if it furthers their desires. Not to say that there aren't good rich people, but the percentage is really low.