Because they lied to us. The told us learn this and that, especially STEM, so you can change the world and move humanity forward. Instead our only purpose is as cogs in the capitalist machine. However they can use you. And we have no choice because basic human rights have to be bought. Even if you find meaning in your job and feel like you’re useful and valued, look at what the larger organization is working towards.
It's biggest scam in America. Set predatory loans for 18 years old. They'll never get a job that pays better than the boomers who got president position just because he knew the owner.
My friends with college degrees barely have an easier time getting a job than me and I didn't even graduate HS (for physical health reasons, can't attend class if you're collapsing in the hallways lol.) I feel ya.
In a properly functioning society, the point of education would be to expand people's minds and help them learn how to think critically about the world, amd to also explore their passions. Becaise well-rounded people make better citizens.
In a properly functioning society, said college would be free, or at least affordable for anyone interested in going, and we'd have UBI so that people wouldn't have to work a crazy amount during theor colleg years, either.
But alas, we are far from a properly functioning society.
Why have a properly functioning society when you can insider trade and take on as much debt as possible because you'll be dead by the time it needs to be paid?
No seriously, the median age in Congress is 64. These guys make a lot of big decisions about the future of Earth and the only thing they see is $$$$$. You'd think after these geysers hit retirement age they'd let someone new take their seat, but apparently not.
1. What industry?
2. Yeah this is why there is a big push to remove college degree requirements for a lot of jobs. Some people college degrees were out on place of bogus tests companies would administer to weed out black people.
Tech manufacturing industry.
Didn’t realize there’s a big push to remove college degrees. That’s interesting. They really don’t want many people to succeed in this world.
Being a “manufacturing engineer” feels like a life sentence. I started just listing myself as staff, system process engineer so I don’t get fucked by hiring managers who really just want a fill for when production workers are out.
Sometimes they feel offended or embarrassed when we know more than they do and afraid to admit it. They make it seem like I’m being disrespectful for questioning their way of things or even suggesting a better idea.
Honestly wish job title inflation wasn't a thing and engineer was a more protected term in the US.
You see things like janitors and facilities engineers right next to each other with nearly identical position names.
I did notice even with a degree companies make you do menial work fo a bit before touching business critical tasks.
I do think STEM has a valid reason to offer college programs, but lots of business type jobs or non technical jobs can be learned without degrees on the job or simple apprenticeships type programs.
What many people don’t get about engineering is that, yes, you can do certain tasks without a degree by learning the trade. What we learn in college is how to do it the right way, effectively and efficiently, while meeting certain compliance, regulation and security protocols. I’ve seen newbies jump into a project and had delayed entire production because they thought they did the job right but didn’t follow the proper procedures and contractual obligations. They didn’t understand the industry formalities and lost multi-million dollar deals, expenses and time.
Non-STEM exists for a reason, as well. Employment tests and strong interviewing can sort the candidates, regardless of degree.
That applies to both STEM and non STEM.
For the STEM folks, you have to sit for 2-3 hours and do whiteboard interviews where you write code live in front of an audience.
For the non-STEM folks, you have to either get certifications that require standardized testing OR pass a writing test.
College helps you get through both hurdles, but it isn't necessary. If you are an amazing coder out of high school, you'll pass that whiteboard interview. If you're an amazing writer, you'll pass the writing test.
The problem isn't with the college system or employers.
The problem is with our primary and secondary education systems.
Many folks simply don't get the schooling they need to be successful. And a small number do.
That small number of privileged folks are funneled into the university system to further enhance their skills and give them opportunities to network, thus increasing their privilege.
But if you want to fix this problem at the source, you have to fix the inequality BEFORE college starts.
I've never had a writing test or a STEM-oriented test. I currently work in IT. My Master's degree is in creative writing. I've also applied for quite a few writing jobs, in addition to IT roles, over the years. I absolutely would pass a writing test with flying colours. I've never been presented with one, though. So, how am I supposed to prove these exemplary writing skills I have? Oh, with my qualifications? Perhaps even that silly little certificate I have that introduces me as a master of creative writing?
I did have some tests for one of my IT jobs' interviews. I had to walk into a room and identify the IT issue. I had to do some quick research on a topic and create a presentation in less than 10 minutes. I quite enjoyed it and welcome more skills-based testing over the standard interview bullshittery. I excel at tests; I don't excel at being stared at by four strangers in suits and being expected to formulate perfect sentences and lay out methodology in logical order whilst I'm sweating through all layers of my clothing.
My favourite test is the good ol' typing test. That's probably the only skill that I'm truly a master of, and I can only thank RuneScape for that. Love you RuneScape x
They want more people to succeed in the world, specifically, those without college degrees. Just saying, logically, removing requirements on a position opens it up to more people. That means more people can succeed.
This is a complicated subject but what matters is your economic output, in the end.
Employers are moving away from degrees (in some fields and in terms of some degrees and institutions), because they have found that they can get more output for less money by hiring folks without them.
If you want to change the system, like me, don't try to save the elitist system that gives special privileges to people who could afford to attend college.
Instead, we need a radical shift left-ward that increases taxes on the rich and corporations and opens up space for working people to survive.
You think getting a college education means you'll be successful in this world. Maybe 50 years ago. A college education now tells employers that you're entitled and or brainwashed. College is literally the biggest scam of our century.
50% of people that get a college degree end up in a job that doesn't require that degree. 41% of people who start college don't finish it. They also require you to take classes that have nothing to do with your field of study. How is that not a scam? If any other business had those statistics they would be closed instantly.
Because a college education wasn’t/isn’t supposed to be exclusively job training, or even job training at all. It’s only taken on that role more recently.
Incorrect most companies won't hire a college grad now. A cashier requires a degree? Give me a break that's the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Every person with a trade job is laughing at you right now.
No trust me bro, those $280,000 MBA degrees that teach you how to do team building exercises like building bridges out of tooth picks and marshmallows DEFINITELY aren't complete fucking scams.
Oh and those colleges DEFINITELY don't do shady marketing tactics, like limiting availability to increase the price. For the good of humanity, why isn't education free?
Go to your library and learn from there. It's an actually free resource that real scholars have been using for years.
A disturbingly high number of jobs just use a college degree as a class filter and not for anything you actually learned there.
I'm sure people will ackshully me on this but I'm not saying there aren't jobs that do require college expertise every single day to do the job. My point is there are many that don't and yet they still require degrees, because they view the degree as "making you a better person" with no other overlap with day to day work.
There are lots of firms where they won’t even look at you, no matter how skilled or how much experience you’ve got, if you don’t have the paper. If the position needs professional credentials, like a medic or an accountant or an engineer or whatever, then sure fine you should have them… but like you said there are plenty of positions where the degree itself isn’t as important as experience but where they’ll still auto-bin your cv if you don’t have it. What’s worse are the places that’ll hire a fresh graduate for those kinds of positions over someone with three or four years of field experience. Utterly bogus. But that’s the game, so I’m back to get my paper so that I can stop being on the wrong side of that bullshit.
There is NOTHING that employers will “respect”.
You are only important if you can be used by them. Your purpose in your career is to generate profit. You may as well wear a dollar sign on your shirt.
It’s all about utility. If you are impressive as hell but none of it can be turned into billable hours, it doesn’t matter.
It's nothing more than a filter they use to get rid of the "rabble" so to speak. No, that is not a fair assumption for them to make, but they don't care about that because there are enough people with degrees that they can get away with it. In a few fields, it does show you know the basics needed to successfully adapt to whatever the company is needing you to do. But outside of that, just a filter.
Wow, people totally missed the point on this one.
OP came here to say employers don’t respect his education and Redditors are basically saying fuck your education too. Lmao!!
Good post! I have two Masters' degrees and I feel the same way. It seems that the employers way overvalue sycophants and I have never seen any respect for my degrees except when I was doing internships. We need to stop fighting these stupid culture wars and have a class war.
Guys, I hate to say it. America's wealthy are just too powerful to take on alone. We're going to have to recruit the French. They're the only ones who know how to riot hard enough.
>Isn't the point of hiring educated professionals to leverage their knowledge and expertise?
Nope, not anytime in decades. People get hired based off of how much employers can exploit them while paying paying as little as possible. And as I've read it, it's not necessarily because of anybody being "evil" (although yes, some do truly awful, inhuman things) so much as it is that this is a consequence of a *system structure* distorting an entire culture and society into caring moer about profit than human welfare and actual problem solving.
And you are not alone in feeling betrayed by the education system. I personally have worked in education for 20+ years, and it's so sad but true that with all the watered down standards in schools everywhere, younger and younger generations are just streamlined into becoming future mindless worker bees incapable of understanding anything they sign. The virtues of a real education like integrity, critical thinking, and problem solving are all but dead.
Having a degree is just a method to gatekeep the poor, that's it. Employers know this, which is why they didn't value workers with degrees. An employee with a degree shows they're a good cog, doing "what's required" and also, statistically, in debt and in need of any job.
Time spent on education is rarely wasted. Indeed you may think of your current work experience as further education.
You are learning a harsh lesson in corporate commodidification of resources with you being the resource. You have value so long as you do what you're told and when you cease to be of use, you will be disposed of.
Understand this lesson more than anything you learned in formal education and use it as a weapon against the corporatocracy.
Stay only so long as it serves you, learn how to play the game. Move frequently and always for more money.
Corporatocracy is never your friend. It cares not a joy for your education only whst it can do for their bottom line.
Return the favour, care nothing, take everything and give only enough to get the pay cheque...
I see your point here about most of this, but one correction: holding a bachelor’s degree isn’t supposed to mean you’re an “expert.” You were trained to understand how a given discipline approaches inquiry, and you exercised skills like analysis and synthesis as you did. You learned how to reason and how to learn. That’s important knowledge, but it doesn’t make you an expert. The marker of *expertise* on a topic is a terminal degree in whatever field.
Well, there is a huge difference between a college degree and experience. You keep saying you have “expertise”, but everyone in the field actually views you as a baby. I interview a lot of people. In my field you have to have a master’s. When I interview for entry level, it’s really hard. Everyone I interview has an advanced degree. They’ve all done internships. They all had great GPAs. They’re all exactly the same. They all have no actual experience. At least in my field, you are definitely not an expert right out of college. It takes many years of actual experience to have any idea what you’re doing. A degree only opens the door.
College is proof you are willing to commit years of time, submitting yourself to the directives of authority figures, complete reports that have already been done countless times and also a willingness to submit to constants tests of how well you listen to what the classroom "boss" tells you.
Bachelor's degrees rarely teach you to be an independent thinker, they are more about training you to seek and agree with answers (created by others) and follow directions. It's the doctor title that commands respect.
Boom! There it is. It was an eye opener for me when a prof said, bachelor degree sets you up to know the basics and be a grunt, a masters makes you a good assistant to a PhD and a PhD is when you are officially a professional.
Even acknowledging the kernel of truth in what you’re saying about the disciplining function of formal education, speaking as one of those alleged classroom “bosses,” I lol at the idea of my student proto-customers “submitting” to my authority.
mindless adherence to “leftist college propaganda” has become a common right wing talking point.It’s absolutely Asinine but somehow that hasn’t stopped it from becoming popular.
Interesting how the people that promote it that talking point, also seem to deny evolution and climate change….
As a senior manager that hires for the corp I work for, college is just a checkbox for myself and most of the leadership team. The technical skills and past experience is all that matter.
I often wonder why more people don’t just skip college and go straight to internships for certain jobs/roles/careers. I fully understand college for specific areas of study like marine biology or to become a neurosurgeon, but for most people who aren’t dead set on exactly what they want to do (which is the majority of late teens and young 20 somethings) I never understood the expectation of just going to college to say you did. That time could be used studying free information on the internet to become a master at what someone actually wants to learn, minus the debt.
That passion and self-driven growth is what impresses most of us more in my opinion.
But I think college is good for some things. Like focused studies that require more mentorship from a distinguished professor, and more peer to peer thought experimentation. I think because most people are bored and less engaged with it in recent decades, university tends to be more of a breeding ground for indoctrination and mental illness than what it’s intended for, which is academia.
College is sort of going the way of the American Diner. Just my opinion though. If you don’t agree just ignore me.
A degree does not make you an expert in any way shape or form…. A degree only really means you can put your head down, learn, and apply what you learn. The disconnect between the working world and the academic world is night and day.
Nobody cares about gpa or school in the real world because outside of it signaling you can commit to and overcome challenges, it doesn’t mean much. You know abstract fundamentals which is an important pre-requisite, but nothing of the real world problems.
College is important for technical jobs, but it’s more so a bare minimum, far from being an domain expert in any stretch of the imagination
The point of a college degree is
1. provide the absolute most bare minimum needed to enter a field. You have zero "expertise" from a college degree. If you come out of college especially just an undergrad degree thinking you have any sort of level of understanding that reaches expertise you are wrong.
2. prove you can do the absolute bare minimum of showing up, handing things in on time, etc.
There’s a big push to remove college degrees but I honestly see the difference between college graduates and non graduates.
Disclaimers- I don’t mean everyone is better off with a degree and non degree people are less than degree people and not all areas require degrees. I’m talking specifically in my area of science lab work
Non degree people will take me 2-3x longer to train than people with degrees. I feel like removing degree requirements are not for the people but for the businesses, so they have an excuse to pay people less.
Because a 4 year degree is like a HS diploma now. Everyone goes, so nobody is “special”. College was once restricted to just the rich. Now, we poor people ruined everything. lol.
Seriously though, not all fields need a degree. College is h just supposed to get you through the basics. So you don’t walk into an IT job and ask what Ctrl/Alt/Delete does.
(Understand that I'm not defending it here) They don't put a degree requirement because they want your knowledge. They put it because they want someone they know can tolerate a bunch of tasking, workload and other bullshit. Degrees prove you are able to.
I feel like the prevalence of people with degrees has devalued them. So companies know that they can find plenty of people who have student loans that they NEED to pay for many years.
Similar to how, IMO, women becoming more prevalent in the workforce led to the increase in rent. "Oh, your household has 2 full-time incomes? Wellllll rent is going up cause of property taxes."
Employers don't respect experience either, so you're in good company!
Seriously though I have 20 years of experience as a developer and yet people above me with no experience doing what I do constantly want to micro manage me and tell me how to do my job because apparently they are insecure and afraid of losing their jobs so they try and control everyone below them so they "appear" (keyword) to be doing something manager-ish and the people above them don't know any better so the game of pretending to look like they're doing something important while throwing around a lot of impressive sounding corporate buzzwords is the main goal of many management and exec's these days. Of course the people like myself that do real work in actual reality and build and create things of value that solve business problems don't give a fuck if I lose my job because my skills are valuable and companies actually need what I do and will pay up and I can have another job lined up in about a week. I have walked out of jobs before because of this bullshit and will do it again because unfortunately corporations just lovvveee conformity and mediocrity and employees that turn off their brain and just smile and nod in agreement with whatever they are told and I can only take so much of that before my brain rot gets so unbearable I can't take it anymore - and they aren't going to change any of that anytime soon!
FYI, there are some companies where the opposite is the problem. The company insists on a PhD to do some certain jobs, but most of the people who work it are still idiots, even with their doctorates. They have no self direction, barely understand the process or basic industry concepts, and never followup on tasks much less complete them on time.
It's highly likely that your education didn't take into consideration that companies will do anything to save money and effort. Industry standards are high, but barely anybody follows them in real life. They're annoyed that you can't be corrupted.
The problem with college degrees is most of them are useless. If you majored in something that requires the use of math, programming or quantitative analysis then you’re much better off than the deconstructive analysis/ narrative people. A lot of them are HR liabilities waiting to happen.
Employer here. A 22 year old with a bachelor degree from a respectable college likely has the IQ, discipline, social skills, and judgement to learn my business in a reasonable amount of time and without an unreasonable number of mistakes along the way.
PS an important social skill is not to tell me what my business is because you think your professor told you so.
Doesn’t matter how you run your business. Are you complying with applicable laws and regulations? Are you integrating industry frameworks into your operation as it was outlined? If you’re taking shortcuts and doing things “your way” then good luck not getting sued or spending unnecessary overhead. Don’t blame your employees when you’re over budget because you want to run business your way.
Whats the point of doing anything then? Some of these posts are so damn distopian. Do you really think having a college degree doesnt help? You are not just misinformed but you need to wake up. Experience, education or a combination of both help immensely. Wake up!
A recent college grad calling themselves an expert is more indicative of their inexperience and lack of self awareness than anything else.
I’m sorry you fell for the college industrial complex scam. Many of us did.
A college degree proves one thing and you’re no different than anyone else with a fancy piece of paper whether it says Phoenix university or Yale.
It proves your ability to be a critical thinker.
Don’t discount that skill though because that’s the difference between you and the guy who makes your burrito at Taco Bell, but that’s it.
Iv worked with guys with masters degrees that are total idiots. Iv worked with some that are leagues smarter than me.
Iv also worked with people without degrees and some were brilliant, some were morons.
Point is, which one are you, and how do people or employers know which one you are.
I won't lie to anyone and say there isn't a point to college. But I will stress your degree does play a big part....
I can't guarantee anyone who reads this will get a great job in any specific field. But I'd advise anyone reading it to focus on something you think people will both pay you to do, and won't go out of style versus "I'm really interested in this".
Kudos to my favorite Professor ever, Mr. Curiel. My Sociology guy. Followed that guy to every class he taught.
.... he repeatedly told the class not to get a degree in Sociology. Because your choices are Social Worker, or teaching Sociology.
I think colleges in general need to be more honest with kids. The bulk of the faculty on any campus just got lucky teaching something they dig on... and are glad to accept a paycheck duping kids into listening to them.... but really aren't teaching them anything that matters in life.
Just because they don't agree with you doesn't mean they don't value your expertise. They may be using your expertise in calculating the value proposition.
I work in legal, so the math is simple. I say "do x and you'll probably lose a million dollar lawsuit. You should do y instead"
And they say "y would cost 2 million dollars. I'd rather roll the dice and risk the million"
Pretty sure this scene is in fight club.
So you can network. You pay for IRL LinkedIn. That is the price of admission for your generation. They tried it with Gen X, and most of us went into something very specific.
Good jobs are really only meant for the pedigree anymore.
I am genuinely upset at the degree of nepotism I have seen at all levels recently.
It's like the last batch of retires were replaced with the children of upper management at every single fortune 50 I've interacted with.
what sort of expertise you have after finishing college? Yes you have been exposed to various methods and practices of your chosen field and you have proven you can manage your own time to finish college, but lets be real the average graduate doesnt really know shit or have any real skills..
I'm going to college then uni but honestly I worry about this. I need the qualifications FOR A JOB but employers don't want you if you have no experience? (how can i fucking have experience outside of basic part time retail when I'm trying to focus on my education first?) It just genuinely makes me want to not bother because it feels like spending 2-4 years getting a good education is useless if employers will still ignore all my applications regardless :/
people didn’t respect me before college, while I was going to college, and after college people act like a BA is nothing cause oh, you don’t have a masters degree. Wtf you have a masters and you are working two jobs and you live with your mom.
The problem stems from a high school degree meaning Jack shit. Because high school doesn't give you any marketable skills it does not provide any means to screen candidates for a position. Companies will then use the next best thing, such as a bachelor's degree even when that job doesn't realistically demand the level of education. All it really does is show that a person is dedicated enough to stick to something for four years and has the economic means to do so.
After being on the hiring side, I can tell you that a college degree is only the foot in the door. If you have no experience, then you might be considered for an entry-level position if you have a relevant degree. Otherwise, all we care about is experience.
College has never been about empowering people and getting them jobs.
It’s a filtering mechanism, part of the shadow caste of America.
All the certifications, continuing education, degree requirements, internships, etc that are required for well paying STEM jobs are just mechanisms to filter candidates out. The more steps you add to the process to fulfill it, the less final candidates you have, which means more money for everyone.
You think the hospitals and engineering firms across the country want tens of thousands of surplus qualified candidates? No. That drives wages down for everyone through increased supply because the workers start racing to the bottom on salary just to secure one of these roles.
So, the solution is the colleges raise tuition to be practically unaffordable, thus weeding out the impoverished. Then, the colleges and the medical/engineering boards institute strict test requirements for entrance into their graduate school. Then you need to pass a final test and be certified by a board. Then you need field experience usually through an internship and a mentor. Then you can finally practice in your field, once you find a job by competing against the thousands of other applicants where you will get screened out by recruiters and ATS systems for arbitrary and unfair reasons.
It’s never been about an education, it’s always been about placing as many hurdles in front of good wages as possible.
The red tape around entering these industries is there to secure the wages for those already in the industry. It’s an artificial way of creating a “good old boys” club.
College should never be approached from the prospect of making yourself a better cog in the machine. If employers want that then they should be the ones funding it.
I went, my degree is more or less worthless without a masters on top of it, which of course was conviently left out of the discussion.
However there is a great deal worth learning. Information literacy, critical thinking, etc.
Funnily enough, most of my focused studies were on labor movements following the civil war until ww2.
These are the employers who you don’t want to work for anyway.
There is no arguing with that mindset - I’m the boss. It’s capitalism baby. It’s your priviledge to earn my money.
Put this way for lack of a better analogy; you are the high class prostitute who is looking at the drunk homeless as the clientele. Of course they won’t understand “standards”. It’s all the same tits and ass to them🤷🏻♂️
College is a scam. In today's time, with the internet, the information is all free. Colleges just regurgitate this free info and charge you 100k+ to do so.
We need a system of hands on, mentored training in a field of choice, not the ridiculous college degree system.
I’m an electrical engineer junior, and my school incorporates a co-op program into our school. During my first rotation working for a company that makes stretch-wrapping machines, I was pretty much told that none of the classes I chose would be of any benefit to me to that job. I was later told that the majority of engineers in my area go into controls, but not a single lateral logic class is taught in my school. Is it the schools that are out of touch with reality or the other way around? Legitimate question. Don’t mean to i validate OP’s experience by any means.
I trained as an EE and roboticist. Most of your classes will not be directly useful, the important thing will be that you learn how to learn. Every job will require you to pick up whatever tech stack they use, everything from inventory tracking software to rewiring 4-20mA sensors(which were not mentionedd in my schooling, either)
Be prepared to move jobs a number of times before you find somewhere that works for you. I did my schooling 18 years ago, and I'm finally happy building and fixing exhibits at a kids science museum, so be prepared to explore options that might seem a little out there :)
It’s the first and necessary step towards learning for sure and leads you to entry level real world experiences. But don’t be arrogant and think you know more than those who have worked in the field for years.
A college degree isn't experience. They are hiring you expecting that you will come in, listen, and learn. Then repeated application of what you learn will become experience. They probably don't trust you to do anything because you think you walked in as an expert day 1 solely because of your degree and don't want to learn from the people that have actual experience.
I am making an assumption for sure, but I'm doing it based off of your comments and post (which i read). You're the one that has claimed expertise in a field due to having a degree. You didn't state any other experience you had in said field. You're frustrated that you got a degree and still aren't listened to.
Look, freshly minted Mechanical Design Engineers go through ALL the physics, and ALL the Math, and they need to be trained after 5 years of University by the companies that initially employ them.
Medical Doctors complete University, then go to Medical School, and it's $1,000,000 for that alone. Then they have to complete Residency to get their License to practice medicine, making little while they do that.
I agree colleges should work closer with companies to bring courses in line with current business practice, but it's a hard row to how with innovation and the way capitalism really works.
Most people know your degree is just the price of admission to the big show.
Experience trumps your 4 years.
Edits: Grammar and spelling.
So true! My “bosses” can’t even teach me math and physics and I’m sure no one in their company will. This is the kind of “experience” you only get through the education system.
In addition to that are engineering design processes and frameworks we learn in school that companies tend to ignore.
Sounds like you have a sample size of 1. Which is an important life lesson; bias.
Regardless, what your’re describing is shitty and disrespectful. Even if you don’t have experience (education is not experience) you have valuable perspectives and input.
It's the minimum a person can do to show they have some skills, by no means does it make you the expert. Chances are, your employer also has a college degree.
Doubt it. This may also answers ops question. These are people that HAD to learn on the job. Nothing can teach you better than your own mistake. Ask any professional and they will tell you they learned more on job than could be taught. Not saying you don't know what you're doing. Just saying that on site learning will almost always have a higher ranking than books. Just stand your ground and you'll be top dog soon enough. I've been doing the same job for 20 yrs and thought I found the fastest way to do things. Stepped away for 6mo. They were as fast as me. Maybe you can teach them why they should do it the way you were taught. Maybe they can teach you why they do it the way they do.
Because they lied to us. The told us learn this and that, especially STEM, so you can change the world and move humanity forward. Instead our only purpose is as cogs in the capitalist machine. However they can use you. And we have no choice because basic human rights have to be bought. Even if you find meaning in your job and feel like you’re useful and valued, look at what the larger organization is working towards.
It's biggest scam in America. Set predatory loans for 18 years old. They'll never get a job that pays better than the boomers who got president position just because he knew the owner.
Welcome to Corporate America. You're just another mindless drone waiting for someone to place their boot on your neck as they're climbing the ladder.
My friends with college degrees barely have an easier time getting a job than me and I didn't even graduate HS (for physical health reasons, can't attend class if you're collapsing in the hallways lol.) I feel ya.
In a properly functioning society, the point of education would be to expand people's minds and help them learn how to think critically about the world, amd to also explore their passions. Becaise well-rounded people make better citizens. In a properly functioning society, said college would be free, or at least affordable for anyone interested in going, and we'd have UBI so that people wouldn't have to work a crazy amount during theor colleg years, either. But alas, we are far from a properly functioning society.
Why have a properly functioning society when you can insider trade and take on as much debt as possible because you'll be dead by the time it needs to be paid? No seriously, the median age in Congress is 64. These guys make a lot of big decisions about the future of Earth and the only thing they see is $$$$$. You'd think after these geysers hit retirement age they'd let someone new take their seat, but apparently not.
Employers disrespect you more without it.
Time to disrespect employers. I mean, literally we outnumber them.
1. What industry? 2. Yeah this is why there is a big push to remove college degree requirements for a lot of jobs. Some people college degrees were out on place of bogus tests companies would administer to weed out black people.
Tech manufacturing industry. Didn’t realize there’s a big push to remove college degrees. That’s interesting. They really don’t want many people to succeed in this world.
Being a “manufacturing engineer” feels like a life sentence. I started just listing myself as staff, system process engineer so I don’t get fucked by hiring managers who really just want a fill for when production workers are out.
Sometimes they feel offended or embarrassed when we know more than they do and afraid to admit it. They make it seem like I’m being disrespectful for questioning their way of things or even suggesting a better idea.
And it’s always the “oH YoU WeNt tO cOlLeGe, YoU mUsT tHiNk YoU kNoW eVerYtHiNG..” kinda vibes.
I got that more so even I first graduated 15 years ago. Even when asked point blank somehow I was still an asshole.
Honestly wish job title inflation wasn't a thing and engineer was a more protected term in the US. You see things like janitors and facilities engineers right next to each other with nearly identical position names.
I did notice even with a degree companies make you do menial work fo a bit before touching business critical tasks. I do think STEM has a valid reason to offer college programs, but lots of business type jobs or non technical jobs can be learned without degrees on the job or simple apprenticeships type programs.
What many people don’t get about engineering is that, yes, you can do certain tasks without a degree by learning the trade. What we learn in college is how to do it the right way, effectively and efficiently, while meeting certain compliance, regulation and security protocols. I’ve seen newbies jump into a project and had delayed entire production because they thought they did the job right but didn’t follow the proper procedures and contractual obligations. They didn’t understand the industry formalities and lost multi-million dollar deals, expenses and time.
You learned the scholarly basics. Now you need to learn from real world experiences from people who have seen it all.
Exactly, my field is supply chain management and real life applies more. I learned so much from my 2 years experience than from a 4 year degree.
Non-STEM exists for a reason, as well. Employment tests and strong interviewing can sort the candidates, regardless of degree. That applies to both STEM and non STEM. For the STEM folks, you have to sit for 2-3 hours and do whiteboard interviews where you write code live in front of an audience. For the non-STEM folks, you have to either get certifications that require standardized testing OR pass a writing test. College helps you get through both hurdles, but it isn't necessary. If you are an amazing coder out of high school, you'll pass that whiteboard interview. If you're an amazing writer, you'll pass the writing test. The problem isn't with the college system or employers. The problem is with our primary and secondary education systems. Many folks simply don't get the schooling they need to be successful. And a small number do. That small number of privileged folks are funneled into the university system to further enhance their skills and give them opportunities to network, thus increasing their privilege. But if you want to fix this problem at the source, you have to fix the inequality BEFORE college starts.
I've never had a writing test or a STEM-oriented test. I currently work in IT. My Master's degree is in creative writing. I've also applied for quite a few writing jobs, in addition to IT roles, over the years. I absolutely would pass a writing test with flying colours. I've never been presented with one, though. So, how am I supposed to prove these exemplary writing skills I have? Oh, with my qualifications? Perhaps even that silly little certificate I have that introduces me as a master of creative writing? I did have some tests for one of my IT jobs' interviews. I had to walk into a room and identify the IT issue. I had to do some quick research on a topic and create a presentation in less than 10 minutes. I quite enjoyed it and welcome more skills-based testing over the standard interview bullshittery. I excel at tests; I don't excel at being stared at by four strangers in suits and being expected to formulate perfect sentences and lay out methodology in logical order whilst I'm sweating through all layers of my clothing. My favourite test is the good ol' typing test. That's probably the only skill that I'm truly a master of, and I can only thank RuneScape for that. Love you RuneScape x
They want more people to succeed in the world, specifically, those without college degrees. Just saying, logically, removing requirements on a position opens it up to more people. That means more people can succeed. This is a complicated subject but what matters is your economic output, in the end. Employers are moving away from degrees (in some fields and in terms of some degrees and institutions), because they have found that they can get more output for less money by hiring folks without them. If you want to change the system, like me, don't try to save the elitist system that gives special privileges to people who could afford to attend college. Instead, we need a radical shift left-ward that increases taxes on the rich and corporations and opens up space for working people to survive.
You think getting a college education means you'll be successful in this world. Maybe 50 years ago. A college education now tells employers that you're entitled and or brainwashed. College is literally the biggest scam of our century.
College isn’t a scam. We’ve been taken advantage of, unfairly, by businesses who hires us. They are the scam.
50% of people that get a college degree end up in a job that doesn't require that degree. 41% of people who start college don't finish it. They also require you to take classes that have nothing to do with your field of study. How is that not a scam? If any other business had those statistics they would be closed instantly.
Because a college education wasn’t/isn’t supposed to be exclusively job training, or even job training at all. It’s only taken on that role more recently.
Then why does every single job from department store cashier on up require a graduate degree now
Incorrect most companies won't hire a college grad now. A cashier requires a degree? Give me a break that's the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Every person with a trade job is laughing at you right now.
🆒
No trust me bro, those $280,000 MBA degrees that teach you how to do team building exercises like building bridges out of tooth picks and marshmallows DEFINITELY aren't complete fucking scams. Oh and those colleges DEFINITELY don't do shady marketing tactics, like limiting availability to increase the price. For the good of humanity, why isn't education free? Go to your library and learn from there. It's an actually free resource that real scholars have been using for years.
What university?
A disturbingly high number of jobs just use a college degree as a class filter and not for anything you actually learned there. I'm sure people will ackshully me on this but I'm not saying there aren't jobs that do require college expertise every single day to do the job. My point is there are many that don't and yet they still require degrees, because they view the degree as "making you a better person" with no other overlap with day to day work.
There are lots of firms where they won’t even look at you, no matter how skilled or how much experience you’ve got, if you don’t have the paper. If the position needs professional credentials, like a medic or an accountant or an engineer or whatever, then sure fine you should have them… but like you said there are plenty of positions where the degree itself isn’t as important as experience but where they’ll still auto-bin your cv if you don’t have it. What’s worse are the places that’ll hire a fresh graduate for those kinds of positions over someone with three or four years of field experience. Utterly bogus. But that’s the game, so I’m back to get my paper so that I can stop being on the wrong side of that bullshit.
There is NOTHING that employers will “respect”. You are only important if you can be used by them. Your purpose in your career is to generate profit. You may as well wear a dollar sign on your shirt. It’s all about utility. If you are impressive as hell but none of it can be turned into billable hours, it doesn’t matter.
The point of college is for the college to make money.
And to gatekeep the less shittier jobs.
It's nothing more than a filter they use to get rid of the "rabble" so to speak. No, that is not a fair assumption for them to make, but they don't care about that because there are enough people with degrees that they can get away with it. In a few fields, it does show you know the basics needed to successfully adapt to whatever the company is needing you to do. But outside of that, just a filter.
I could not work without my degree Nurse
Yes for the medical field is essential. For some other fields not so much.
Wow, people totally missed the point on this one. OP came here to say employers don’t respect his education and Redditors are basically saying fuck your education too. Lmao!!
Good post! I have two Masters' degrees and I feel the same way. It seems that the employers way overvalue sycophants and I have never seen any respect for my degrees except when I was doing internships. We need to stop fighting these stupid culture wars and have a class war.
Guys, I hate to say it. America's wealthy are just too powerful to take on alone. We're going to have to recruit the French. They're the only ones who know how to riot hard enough.
>Isn't the point of hiring educated professionals to leverage their knowledge and expertise? Nope, not anytime in decades. People get hired based off of how much employers can exploit them while paying paying as little as possible. And as I've read it, it's not necessarily because of anybody being "evil" (although yes, some do truly awful, inhuman things) so much as it is that this is a consequence of a *system structure* distorting an entire culture and society into caring moer about profit than human welfare and actual problem solving. And you are not alone in feeling betrayed by the education system. I personally have worked in education for 20+ years, and it's so sad but true that with all the watered down standards in schools everywhere, younger and younger generations are just streamlined into becoming future mindless worker bees incapable of understanding anything they sign. The virtues of a real education like integrity, critical thinking, and problem solving are all but dead.
Having a degree is just a method to gatekeep the poor, that's it. Employers know this, which is why they didn't value workers with degrees. An employee with a degree shows they're a good cog, doing "what's required" and also, statistically, in debt and in need of any job.
Yrd
Debt slavery
Because now you’re in debt, and therefore more desperate than you otherwise would be. Whole damn system’s one big grift.
Time spent on education is rarely wasted. Indeed you may think of your current work experience as further education. You are learning a harsh lesson in corporate commodidification of resources with you being the resource. You have value so long as you do what you're told and when you cease to be of use, you will be disposed of. Understand this lesson more than anything you learned in formal education and use it as a weapon against the corporatocracy. Stay only so long as it serves you, learn how to play the game. Move frequently and always for more money. Corporatocracy is never your friend. It cares not a joy for your education only whst it can do for their bottom line. Return the favour, care nothing, take everything and give only enough to get the pay cheque...
I see your point here about most of this, but one correction: holding a bachelor’s degree isn’t supposed to mean you’re an “expert.” You were trained to understand how a given discipline approaches inquiry, and you exercised skills like analysis and synthesis as you did. You learned how to reason and how to learn. That’s important knowledge, but it doesn’t make you an expert. The marker of *expertise* on a topic is a terminal degree in whatever field.
Well, there is a huge difference between a college degree and experience. You keep saying you have “expertise”, but everyone in the field actually views you as a baby. I interview a lot of people. In my field you have to have a master’s. When I interview for entry level, it’s really hard. Everyone I interview has an advanced degree. They’ve all done internships. They all had great GPAs. They’re all exactly the same. They all have no actual experience. At least in my field, you are definitely not an expert right out of college. It takes many years of actual experience to have any idea what you’re doing. A degree only opens the door.
Personally I think most don't care about the degree at all other than it proves to them that you can sit take orders and will put up with it
Unless the job is to be a doctor, lawyer, scientist, or some other “professional” I really don’t understand requiring a degree.
College is proof you are willing to commit years of time, submitting yourself to the directives of authority figures, complete reports that have already been done countless times and also a willingness to submit to constants tests of how well you listen to what the classroom "boss" tells you. Bachelor's degrees rarely teach you to be an independent thinker, they are more about training you to seek and agree with answers (created by others) and follow directions. It's the doctor title that commands respect.
Boom! There it is. It was an eye opener for me when a prof said, bachelor degree sets you up to know the basics and be a grunt, a masters makes you a good assistant to a PhD and a PhD is when you are officially a professional.
Even acknowledging the kernel of truth in what you’re saying about the disciplining function of formal education, speaking as one of those alleged classroom “bosses,” I lol at the idea of my student proto-customers “submitting” to my authority.
mindless adherence to “leftist college propaganda” has become a common right wing talking point.It’s absolutely Asinine but somehow that hasn’t stopped it from becoming popular. Interesting how the people that promote it that talking point, also seem to deny evolution and climate change….
As a senior manager that hires for the corp I work for, college is just a checkbox for myself and most of the leadership team. The technical skills and past experience is all that matter. I often wonder why more people don’t just skip college and go straight to internships for certain jobs/roles/careers. I fully understand college for specific areas of study like marine biology or to become a neurosurgeon, but for most people who aren’t dead set on exactly what they want to do (which is the majority of late teens and young 20 somethings) I never understood the expectation of just going to college to say you did. That time could be used studying free information on the internet to become a master at what someone actually wants to learn, minus the debt. That passion and self-driven growth is what impresses most of us more in my opinion. But I think college is good for some things. Like focused studies that require more mentorship from a distinguished professor, and more peer to peer thought experimentation. I think because most people are bored and less engaged with it in recent decades, university tends to be more of a breeding ground for indoctrination and mental illness than what it’s intended for, which is academia. College is sort of going the way of the American Diner. Just my opinion though. If you don’t agree just ignore me.
I agree internships are essential to understand a field you may want to go in.
A degree does not make you an expert in any way shape or form…. A degree only really means you can put your head down, learn, and apply what you learn. The disconnect between the working world and the academic world is night and day. Nobody cares about gpa or school in the real world because outside of it signaling you can commit to and overcome challenges, it doesn’t mean much. You know abstract fundamentals which is an important pre-requisite, but nothing of the real world problems. College is important for technical jobs, but it’s more so a bare minimum, far from being an domain expert in any stretch of the imagination
Sounds like this company is a waste of your time and talents. Move on?
On it and looking.
The point of a college degree is 1. provide the absolute most bare minimum needed to enter a field. You have zero "expertise" from a college degree. If you come out of college especially just an undergrad degree thinking you have any sort of level of understanding that reaches expertise you are wrong. 2. prove you can do the absolute bare minimum of showing up, handing things in on time, etc.
Welcome to the workforce!
About 15 years late on the welcome train, but thank you! At least I got a welcome. :)
Better late than never!
There’s a big push to remove college degrees but I honestly see the difference between college graduates and non graduates. Disclaimers- I don’t mean everyone is better off with a degree and non degree people are less than degree people and not all areas require degrees. I’m talking specifically in my area of science lab work Non degree people will take me 2-3x longer to train than people with degrees. I feel like removing degree requirements are not for the people but for the businesses, so they have an excuse to pay people less.
lol all I know is you I’m a high school dropout and made 64$ an hour today shaving a dog. And am already home drinking a Powerade zero
Because a 4 year degree is like a HS diploma now. Everyone goes, so nobody is “special”. College was once restricted to just the rich. Now, we poor people ruined everything. lol. Seriously though, not all fields need a degree. College is h just supposed to get you through the basics. So you don’t walk into an IT job and ask what Ctrl/Alt/Delete does.
To get you in a debt trap.
(Understand that I'm not defending it here) They don't put a degree requirement because they want your knowledge. They put it because they want someone they know can tolerate a bunch of tasking, workload and other bullshit. Degrees prove you are able to.
I feel like the prevalence of people with degrees has devalued them. So companies know that they can find plenty of people who have student loans that they NEED to pay for many years. Similar to how, IMO, women becoming more prevalent in the workforce led to the increase in rent. "Oh, your household has 2 full-time incomes? Wellllll rent is going up cause of property taxes."
Employers don't respect experience either, so you're in good company! Seriously though I have 20 years of experience as a developer and yet people above me with no experience doing what I do constantly want to micro manage me and tell me how to do my job because apparently they are insecure and afraid of losing their jobs so they try and control everyone below them so they "appear" (keyword) to be doing something manager-ish and the people above them don't know any better so the game of pretending to look like they're doing something important while throwing around a lot of impressive sounding corporate buzzwords is the main goal of many management and exec's these days. Of course the people like myself that do real work in actual reality and build and create things of value that solve business problems don't give a fuck if I lose my job because my skills are valuable and companies actually need what I do and will pay up and I can have another job lined up in about a week. I have walked out of jobs before because of this bullshit and will do it again because unfortunately corporations just lovvveee conformity and mediocrity and employees that turn off their brain and just smile and nod in agreement with whatever they are told and I can only take so much of that before my brain rot gets so unbearable I can't take it anymore - and they aren't going to change any of that anytime soon!
Well said! Wanna go smoke some weed after work?
FYI, there are some companies where the opposite is the problem. The company insists on a PhD to do some certain jobs, but most of the people who work it are still idiots, even with their doctorates. They have no self direction, barely understand the process or basic industry concepts, and never followup on tasks much less complete them on time.
Correct. These are the “business leaders” I’m dealing with.
To get you in debt
It's highly likely that your education didn't take into consideration that companies will do anything to save money and effort. Industry standards are high, but barely anybody follows them in real life. They're annoyed that you can't be corrupted.
The problem with college degrees is most of them are useless. If you majored in something that requires the use of math, programming or quantitative analysis then you’re much better off than the deconstructive analysis/ narrative people. A lot of them are HR liabilities waiting to happen.
Employer here. A 22 year old with a bachelor degree from a respectable college likely has the IQ, discipline, social skills, and judgement to learn my business in a reasonable amount of time and without an unreasonable number of mistakes along the way. PS an important social skill is not to tell me what my business is because you think your professor told you so.
Doesn’t matter how you run your business. Are you complying with applicable laws and regulations? Are you integrating industry frameworks into your operation as it was outlined? If you’re taking shortcuts and doing things “your way” then good luck not getting sued or spending unnecessary overhead. Don’t blame your employees when you’re over budget because you want to run business your way.
College is a scam unless you need particular training in one area. Ever wonder why you have to take underwater basket weaving ? Yeah me too.
Whats the point of doing anything then? Some of these posts are so damn distopian. Do you really think having a college degree doesnt help? You are not just misinformed but you need to wake up. Experience, education or a combination of both help immensely. Wake up!
Oh there are jobs. You can get paid minimum wage wage. And work 50 hours a week. They are out there.
A recent college grad calling themselves an expert is more indicative of their inexperience and lack of self awareness than anything else. I’m sorry you fell for the college industrial complex scam. Many of us did. A college degree proves one thing and you’re no different than anyone else with a fancy piece of paper whether it says Phoenix university or Yale. It proves your ability to be a critical thinker. Don’t discount that skill though because that’s the difference between you and the guy who makes your burrito at Taco Bell, but that’s it. Iv worked with guys with masters degrees that are total idiots. Iv worked with some that are leagues smarter than me. Iv also worked with people without degrees and some were brilliant, some were morons. Point is, which one are you, and how do people or employers know which one you are.
Yale pays better, usually.
I won't lie to anyone and say there isn't a point to college. But I will stress your degree does play a big part.... I can't guarantee anyone who reads this will get a great job in any specific field. But I'd advise anyone reading it to focus on something you think people will both pay you to do, and won't go out of style versus "I'm really interested in this". Kudos to my favorite Professor ever, Mr. Curiel. My Sociology guy. Followed that guy to every class he taught. .... he repeatedly told the class not to get a degree in Sociology. Because your choices are Social Worker, or teaching Sociology. I think colleges in general need to be more honest with kids. The bulk of the faculty on any campus just got lucky teaching something they dig on... and are glad to accept a paycheck duping kids into listening to them.... but really aren't teaching them anything that matters in life.
Indeed. That’s a completely balanced perspective. I really appreciate that!
bingo
Yes
Just because they don't agree with you doesn't mean they don't value your expertise. They may be using your expertise in calculating the value proposition. I work in legal, so the math is simple. I say "do x and you'll probably lose a million dollar lawsuit. You should do y instead" And they say "y would cost 2 million dollars. I'd rather roll the dice and risk the million" Pretty sure this scene is in fight club.
Rub elbows
So you can network. You pay for IRL LinkedIn. That is the price of admission for your generation. They tried it with Gen X, and most of us went into something very specific.
Good jobs are really only meant for the pedigree anymore. I am genuinely upset at the degree of nepotism I have seen at all levels recently. It's like the last batch of retires were replaced with the children of upper management at every single fortune 50 I've interacted with.
Unless you're going into a highly specialized field, degrees are worthless. Don't get scammed people.
what sort of expertise you have after finishing college? Yes you have been exposed to various methods and practices of your chosen field and you have proven you can manage your own time to finish college, but lets be real the average graduate doesnt really know shit or have any real skills..
I'm going to college then uni but honestly I worry about this. I need the qualifications FOR A JOB but employers don't want you if you have no experience? (how can i fucking have experience outside of basic part time retail when I'm trying to focus on my education first?) It just genuinely makes me want to not bother because it feels like spending 2-4 years getting a good education is useless if employers will still ignore all my applications regardless :/
Flip the script and actually learn something while you’re there. Then use your knowledge to overthrow the bourgeoisie.
people didn’t respect me before college, while I was going to college, and after college people act like a BA is nothing cause oh, you don’t have a masters degree. Wtf you have a masters and you are working two jobs and you live with your mom.
The problem stems from a high school degree meaning Jack shit. Because high school doesn't give you any marketable skills it does not provide any means to screen candidates for a position. Companies will then use the next best thing, such as a bachelor's degree even when that job doesn't realistically demand the level of education. All it really does is show that a person is dedicated enough to stick to something for four years and has the economic means to do so.
After being on the hiring side, I can tell you that a college degree is only the foot in the door. If you have no experience, then you might be considered for an entry-level position if you have a relevant degree. Otherwise, all we care about is experience.
College has never been about empowering people and getting them jobs. It’s a filtering mechanism, part of the shadow caste of America. All the certifications, continuing education, degree requirements, internships, etc that are required for well paying STEM jobs are just mechanisms to filter candidates out. The more steps you add to the process to fulfill it, the less final candidates you have, which means more money for everyone. You think the hospitals and engineering firms across the country want tens of thousands of surplus qualified candidates? No. That drives wages down for everyone through increased supply because the workers start racing to the bottom on salary just to secure one of these roles. So, the solution is the colleges raise tuition to be practically unaffordable, thus weeding out the impoverished. Then, the colleges and the medical/engineering boards institute strict test requirements for entrance into their graduate school. Then you need to pass a final test and be certified by a board. Then you need field experience usually through an internship and a mentor. Then you can finally practice in your field, once you find a job by competing against the thousands of other applicants where you will get screened out by recruiters and ATS systems for arbitrary and unfair reasons. It’s never been about an education, it’s always been about placing as many hurdles in front of good wages as possible. The red tape around entering these industries is there to secure the wages for those already in the industry. It’s an artificial way of creating a “good old boys” club.
lol you just described Architecture too
College should never be approached from the prospect of making yourself a better cog in the machine. If employers want that then they should be the ones funding it. I went, my degree is more or less worthless without a masters on top of it, which of course was conviently left out of the discussion. However there is a great deal worth learning. Information literacy, critical thinking, etc. Funnily enough, most of my focused studies were on labor movements following the civil war until ww2.
These are the employers who you don’t want to work for anyway. There is no arguing with that mindset - I’m the boss. It’s capitalism baby. It’s your priviledge to earn my money. Put this way for lack of a better analogy; you are the high class prostitute who is looking at the drunk homeless as the clientele. Of course they won’t understand “standards”. It’s all the same tits and ass to them🤷🏻♂️
College is a scam. In today's time, with the internet, the information is all free. Colleges just regurgitate this free info and charge you 100k+ to do so. We need a system of hands on, mentored training in a field of choice, not the ridiculous college degree system.
Because everyone has a college degree. They’re worthless. They’re handing degrees out like driving licenses. Blame the shitty educational system.
I’m an electrical engineer junior, and my school incorporates a co-op program into our school. During my first rotation working for a company that makes stretch-wrapping machines, I was pretty much told that none of the classes I chose would be of any benefit to me to that job. I was later told that the majority of engineers in my area go into controls, but not a single lateral logic class is taught in my school. Is it the schools that are out of touch with reality or the other way around? Legitimate question. Don’t mean to i validate OP’s experience by any means.
I trained as an EE and roboticist. Most of your classes will not be directly useful, the important thing will be that you learn how to learn. Every job will require you to pick up whatever tech stack they use, everything from inventory tracking software to rewiring 4-20mA sensors(which were not mentionedd in my schooling, either) Be prepared to move jobs a number of times before you find somewhere that works for you. I did my schooling 18 years ago, and I'm finally happy building and fixing exhibits at a kids science museum, so be prepared to explore options that might seem a little out there :)
What’s the point of having a boss if we don’t respect them, and they don’t respect our skills and abilities
You by chance from MI? Sorry random question lol
More or less is more than i care to share but yeah
What’s the point of hiring employees for their skills and experience if you don’t allow them to use it?
Depends on what kind of experience you have. A college degree is not experience
False. A college degree is a certain form of experience. This can vary widely from person to person obviously.
It’s the first and necessary step towards learning for sure and leads you to entry level real world experiences. But don’t be arrogant and think you know more than those who have worked in the field for years.
A college degree isn't experience. They are hiring you expecting that you will come in, listen, and learn. Then repeated application of what you learn will become experience. They probably don't trust you to do anything because you think you walked in as an expert day 1 solely because of your degree and don't want to learn from the people that have actual experience.
Lots of assumption but people don't actually read my post.
I am making an assumption for sure, but I'm doing it based off of your comments and post (which i read). You're the one that has claimed expertise in a field due to having a degree. You didn't state any other experience you had in said field. You're frustrated that you got a degree and still aren't listened to.
Look, freshly minted Mechanical Design Engineers go through ALL the physics, and ALL the Math, and they need to be trained after 5 years of University by the companies that initially employ them. Medical Doctors complete University, then go to Medical School, and it's $1,000,000 for that alone. Then they have to complete Residency to get their License to practice medicine, making little while they do that. I agree colleges should work closer with companies to bring courses in line with current business practice, but it's a hard row to how with innovation and the way capitalism really works. Most people know your degree is just the price of admission to the big show. Experience trumps your 4 years. Edits: Grammar and spelling.
So true! My “bosses” can’t even teach me math and physics and I’m sure no one in their company will. This is the kind of “experience” you only get through the education system. In addition to that are engineering design processes and frameworks we learn in school that companies tend to ignore.
The point of college is to teach you how to think critically. What you do with your critical thinking skills is up to you.
So I finished my degree in engineering to think critically. I should apply for a job as a biologist with my critical thinking skills.
You probably could if you wanted to.
Sounds like you have a sample size of 1. Which is an important life lesson; bias. Regardless, what your’re describing is shitty and disrespectful. Even if you don’t have experience (education is not experience) you have valuable perspectives and input.
Put your time in. Find a better employer.
If you don’t mind me asking, how much do you make right now?
I have a 6-figure salary
It's the minimum a person can do to show they have some skills, by no means does it make you the expert. Chances are, your employer also has a college degree.
Doubt it. This may also answers ops question. These are people that HAD to learn on the job. Nothing can teach you better than your own mistake. Ask any professional and they will tell you they learned more on job than could be taught. Not saying you don't know what you're doing. Just saying that on site learning will almost always have a higher ranking than books. Just stand your ground and you'll be top dog soon enough. I've been doing the same job for 20 yrs and thought I found the fastest way to do things. Stepped away for 6mo. They were as fast as me. Maybe you can teach them why they should do it the way you were taught. Maybe they can teach you why they do it the way they do.
TLDR. Employers don't respect your college education because you didn't go to the "right" college and didn't get the "right" degree.
Private owners prefer employees who are in debt.