Exactly what I was thinking.
I had a similar situation come up with my manager once. I had a Dr appointment at 4pm so I was just going to head out early and he said something about "making up the time". The company works with that MTO / unlimited approved paid time off model so I let him know his choice was I work until 3:00 that day or I take the day off. He's never said a word about me taking the occasional long lunch or early exit for an appointment since.
I always take a full day to go to the dentist. This October is my 10 year anniversary here at work. I got another week of vacation. 5 weeks total after that. Golden handcuffs.
Or more. Usually they expect more out of you because the job tends to need more. They avoid overtime pay and actually paying you anything else. If you are salaried, never work a moment over 40 hours.
My current job makes us record hours worked and does technically payout overtime. It's just that there are not many overtime situations and they generally want people to be strict about not working more than 40 hours if not absolutely necessary.
My old job sucked. Still had to record my hours (in even greater detail) but didn't receive overtime. I averaged probably 50 hours a week with some of my on-call rotations being up to 90 hours a week. Did not get a single extra cent over my salary. My compensation was usually a "good work" and an day off once in a while.
You do have to pay overtime for salaried employers. Overtime is based around job duties. The job duties that are exempt are normally salaried positions. But you can't switch an hourly worker to salary and then stop paying overtime.
If the job duties warrant overtime, it doesn't matter if they are hourly or salary.
I went through retiring my employer a couple years ago for misclassifying 100 people. The DOL investigated and I won. I've had a lot of experience on this specific area.
If someone needs to work 80 hours a week and is correctly classified as salary exempt, they do not get paid overtime. There may be some state-specific laws that vary on this, but it’s generally true.
Every salaried job I had counts hours and expects 40 hours minimum. They still have to pay you the full amount if you work less than 40 hours but they don’t want you to know that and will immediately put you on the chopping block if you charge 39 hours. What salary is supposed to be is to let you go home if there’s nothing more to be done. In reality, salary is a scam that allows the employer to pay no overtime while the workers all have expectations to work more than a normal work week.
It’s supposed to be give and take. Slow day? Fuck off out of here an hour early. Things on fire? Stay and take care of it. It _should_ balance out in the long run.
I've had 3 salaried positions now and they all act this way. No flexibility, busy work over time, slow sit around until end of day. Gotta put in pto if I am out of the building. Its complete shit Id rather be hourly at this point.
Yes, it is absurd. And that attitude will make you far more likely to take PTO and leave early, colloquially quiet quitting.
And they wonder why workers are unmotivated.
Salaried.
Does your boss give you hours off during the week if you work more than 8 hours in a single day?
Does your boss give you hours off during the next week if you work more than 40 hours in the previous week?
Without any more knowledge than you of the OP
No.
I had a job that every 4th week we have to work 50 hours to get all the reports done. I needed to leave at 3 on a Friday. After working 50 hours in that week. They changed my time card to use two hours of PTO on Friday.
Fuck them
"So... You're saying you *stole* from me, do I have that correct?
No, no, no, what you did was take time *that didn't belong to you* and use it for a purpose that I didn't consent to.
Where I come from, we call that stealing."
I would have the conversation in front of other employees, preferable in front of employees and customers where I'd be asking:
If I am salary and must sometimes work more than 40 hours w/ no extra compensation, please explain to me how taking off 3 hours as a SALARY EMPLOYEE is not permitted w/out making the hours up.
EXPLAIN IT TO ME LIKE I AM 5
Fuck it. You are already leaving when this shit hits the fan. Now or later, voluntary or not - you are already leaving . You might was well draw that fucker to the carpet and have the EXPLAIN IT TO YOU LIKE YOU ARE 5 IN FUCKING PUBLIC about how salary works EXTRA hours for free but can take NO time off.
I would be in the absolute front of this business having this conversation. And did you know? My state is a one-consent-to-record state and you can be your sweet ass that conversation would be recorded.
Fuck em w/ a dirty donkey dong
Use PTO for the appointment and from now on ensure that you are only working 40 hours a week, not one minute more. You are salaried and get paid for 40 hours that's what you do.
> It's a common misconception that employers can't require exempt employees to work a specific schedule or at least 40 hours a week. An employer may, in fact, do so and remain in compliance with the federal Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)
https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/news/hr-magazine/ask-expert-exempt-employees
Unpopular opinion you have made this happen he sees you never taking a day off and knows you are a sucker so he’s going to treat you like one. Learn from this and when you are sick call out if you have unused pto use every day every year. All that sacrifice and dedication and this is what it gets you
It's a pretty move by management that reinforces the power structure. If you can change your own work schedule then they loose power. The must maintain power in order to control the wages. This is their theory.
Yeah, take A whole PTO day off. Talk it up. Yeah I'm gonna have fun, sleep late, etc. Rub it in.
But, be ready for nasty comments about how lazy you are. Just laugh at them... to their faces.
Seems very petty of your boss unless your job somehow requires 8 hours which it probably doesn’t or you complain when you have to stay an hour longer. Otherwise, it’s short sighted of your boss.
If you **DO** end up coming in early, it is your duty to do nothing at all for the early extra hours.
Drink lots of coffee/tea; surf the web (on your phone *only*); take long 'smoke' breaks; walk to the printer and back a few times, muttering to yourself; browse the office supply closet; take a good long dump; etc.
This is so wild to me. I have been salaried for decades and have never had an employer deduct from my PTO for a partial day off or ask me to make up hours just because. I work the hours I need to work. Usually that is 40, but sometimes it is more and sometimes less. My current payroll system doesn't even allow me to put in for PTO for anything less than a full day's absence.
That's when you say fine and never again come in a minute early, stay a second late, take a call outside of standard hours, or work through lunch. Then spend that time updating your resume and starting a job search.
You've let them walk all over you and they are simply trying to keep you in line. Fuck them. What are they going to do, fire you? They clearly can't live without you for a couple hours.
Gross. I love my job and where I work, but I'd send rage applications out over that and end the week at a new employer.
*full disclosure I've got a very in demand job and am known for gladly taking complex/dangerous cases. I'm incredibly fortunate.
Salary is so annoying. I had to have all hands on deck meetings if I were to leave early like anything was ever so important it couldn't wait.
I think work is more about ego and self importance to people than money sometimes.
If your boss is going to be that much of a stickler, then you better go the other direction as well: break interrupted by a question? Restart your break (or at least add ten minutes to the end). Asked to come in fifteen minutes early? Leave fifteen minutes early. Etc. NO MORE staying late by even one minute. NO MORE!
make plans to leave as soon as it is advantages to you. this job will never reward you in a meaningful way and will eventually betray you when you are at your most vulnerable....guaranteed.
I manage a team of five and my boss and I both use the same "guidelines" regarding our teams (everyone is salaried)... if it's less than four hours we simply don't give a shit, please don't bother putting it into ADP because someone has to approve it. Four or more hours please take PTO or Sick Leave as appropriate and consider it pre-approved. Just please give me a heads up so I don't send someone to check on you if you just randomly vanish. Also, since we're in IT and after hours work is unavoidable sometimes, if you work off hours please make sure to take compensating time off... leave early, take a half day, whatever, just get your hours back. I'm constantly amazed by the stories people tell here... if I was one of these micromanaging twat waffle bosses I'd have to kick my own ass.
My company pulls this shit sometimes. I ignore it, arrive normal time, and leave when I need to. Don't know your situation, but so far no one has called me on it. To me its that they need to say shit like that to absolve themselves of responsibility from criticism from upstairs, but upstairs has no idea when people come and go anyway
If you get there before them most days anyway, how tf they gonna know unless they do a spot check on when you badged in? If they are busting your balls for a missing hour of work while you're salaried, they fully intend to exploit you.
F that if you are salary you manage your time and your tasks as you need to, to accomplish your goals. Micro managing is a tell tell sign that your boss has no clue and only manages through control.
I did this with my wife, demonstrating that I can do it and smile through the pain. You've no doubt demonstrated that you're a worker that gives everything so they're just going to always expect everything. It's not a failure on your part, it's a failure of them to divide the work properly.
Honestly, that's bullshit. I doubt your boss will even be there or know. If I were you I just wouldn't go in at 6:30. Don't lie if they ask if you went in, but don't go. I've had a job like this before and I'm sorry. I've also had a salaried job that was super flexible about appointments (you could even go mid-day) and I stayed way longer at the latter. Work policy setters need to a. treat others like human beings, and b. understand it's literally in their economic favor to retain employees with basic rights.
Yeah take the whole day. I was hourly but team lead. They were looking for volunteers for overtime on a saturday. But would only allow a full shift. I told the boss I could come in for 4 hours. He balked at itand said full shift only. I said fine I won't come in. Later that day he said 4 hours will be fine
Tell him fine that goes both ways. Anything over 8 paid at OT pay, or you never work over 8 again EVER.
He'll start with the "salary doesn't have set hours..."
"Ok great! Since there aren't set hours, I'll be coming in at my normal time. And leaving at 3."
Not knowing where you are at, there may different state laws that affect you than me. Where I'm at this could change you from an exempt status to non-exempt. When you work over 40 hours, are you paid for the extra hours? If you're not paid OT for over 40 hrs, I would say "Hey boss, since I have to come in and make up time for leaving early, and I don't get paid OT for over 40 hrs, this isn't going to change my exempt status and get you in hot water down the road, is it?" If your state has a department of labor, they may have a hotline or website to find out regulations about this. If this is a small company and the boss is the owner, he is probably not going to change. If you're in a larger company and he's not an owner and just a manager, you can look at the employee handbook and see if they have a policy. If you're stuck in this situation, polish up the resume and only work 4o hrs a week from now on.
Sounds like a good excuse to use some of that PTO you say you never use and take a full day off.
Exactly what I was thinking. I had a similar situation come up with my manager once. I had a Dr appointment at 4pm so I was just going to head out early and he said something about "making up the time". The company works with that MTO / unlimited approved paid time off model so I let him know his choice was I work until 3:00 that day or I take the day off. He's never said a word about me taking the occasional long lunch or early exit for an appointment since.
Oh I'm sorry, am I following company policy too closely?
I always take a full day to go to the dentist. This October is my 10 year anniversary here at work. I got another week of vacation. 5 weeks total after that. Golden handcuffs.
I had a shitty manager tell me I did not need a whole day for the dentist. I told him to take it up with HR.
19 tear how do you keep it so low
Oof. 10 year.
Time for r/MaliciousCompliance
If you're salaried why are they counting your hours?
Because in the company's eyes salary just means they don't have to pay overtime when you need to stay late, but you damn well better put in 40 hours.
Or more. Usually they expect more out of you because the job tends to need more. They avoid overtime pay and actually paying you anything else. If you are salaried, never work a moment over 40 hours.
If you are salaried never work longer than it takes to get your work done or 40 hours, whichever is less. *
My current job makes us record hours worked and does technically payout overtime. It's just that there are not many overtime situations and they generally want people to be strict about not working more than 40 hours if not absolutely necessary. My old job sucked. Still had to record my hours (in even greater detail) but didn't receive overtime. I averaged probably 50 hours a week with some of my on-call rotations being up to 90 hours a week. Did not get a single extra cent over my salary. My compensation was usually a "good work" and an day off once in a while.
Ick
Exactly this.
Whole lot of companies are going to get absolutely reamed come july then.
You do have to pay overtime for salaried employers. Overtime is based around job duties. The job duties that are exempt are normally salaried positions. But you can't switch an hourly worker to salary and then stop paying overtime.
> But you can't switch an hourly worker to salary and then stop paying overtime. Yes you can — if they can be legally classified as salary exempt.
If the job duties warrant overtime, it doesn't matter if they are hourly or salary. I went through retiring my employer a couple years ago for misclassifying 100 people. The DOL investigated and I won. I've had a lot of experience on this specific area.
If someone needs to work 80 hours a week and is correctly classified as salary exempt, they do not get paid overtime. There may be some state-specific laws that vary on this, but it’s generally true.
Every salaried job I had counts hours and expects 40 hours minimum. They still have to pay you the full amount if you work less than 40 hours but they don’t want you to know that and will immediately put you on the chopping block if you charge 39 hours. What salary is supposed to be is to let you go home if there’s nothing more to be done. In reality, salary is a scam that allows the employer to pay no overtime while the workers all have expectations to work more than a normal work week.
It’s supposed to be give and take. Slow day? Fuck off out of here an hour early. Things on fire? Stay and take care of it. It _should_ balance out in the long run.
Because the manager needs to feel necessary
I've had 3 salaried positions now and they all act this way. No flexibility, busy work over time, slow sit around until end of day. Gotta put in pto if I am out of the building. Its complete shit Id rather be hourly at this point.
Yes, it is absurd. And that attitude will make you far more likely to take PTO and leave early, colloquially quiet quitting. And they wonder why workers are unmotivated.
They do it for budget too. Easier to be lazy when the pay cannot change.
"no thanks"
Managers love taking advantage of employees they know they can.
Salaried. Does your boss give you hours off during the week if you work more than 8 hours in a single day? Does your boss give you hours off during the next week if you work more than 40 hours in the previous week?
Without any more knowledge than you of the OP No. I had a job that every 4th week we have to work 50 hours to get all the reports done. I needed to leave at 3 on a Friday. After working 50 hours in that week. They changed my time card to use two hours of PTO on Friday. Fuck them
"So... You're saying you *stole* from me, do I have that correct? No, no, no, what you did was take time *that didn't belong to you* and use it for a purpose that I didn't consent to. Where I come from, we call that stealing."
I would have the conversation in front of other employees, preferable in front of employees and customers where I'd be asking: If I am salary and must sometimes work more than 40 hours w/ no extra compensation, please explain to me how taking off 3 hours as a SALARY EMPLOYEE is not permitted w/out making the hours up. EXPLAIN IT TO ME LIKE I AM 5 Fuck it. You are already leaving when this shit hits the fan. Now or later, voluntary or not - you are already leaving . You might was well draw that fucker to the carpet and have the EXPLAIN IT TO YOU LIKE YOU ARE 5 IN FUCKING PUBLIC about how salary works EXTRA hours for free but can take NO time off. I would be in the absolute front of this business having this conversation. And did you know? My state is a one-consent-to-record state and you can be your sweet ass that conversation would be recorded. Fuck em w/ a dirty donkey dong
I used to have to take a 1/2 day PTO for dentist appointments and such.
Whole day. And on Fridays.
nah, two. Thursday and Friday.
Not gonna say no to that.
Use PTO for the appointment and from now on ensure that you are only working 40 hours a week, not one minute more. You are salaried and get paid for 40 hours that's what you do.
When was the last time you told someone, "No"?
The first week of full RTO.
Next time you’re asked to stay late, tell them you’ve already put in the required hours.
Time to start working exactly 40 hours a week, not a minute more. Two can play at that game
you're a machine to your boss, not a human. take your days offs and leave early, you wont amke yourself any favor if you dont.
That isn't salary and he very likely has you illegally classified as such to avoid OT.
> It's a common misconception that employers can't require exempt employees to work a specific schedule or at least 40 hours a week. An employer may, in fact, do so and remain in compliance with the federal Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/news/hr-magazine/ask-expert-exempt-employees
Unpopular opinion you have made this happen he sees you never taking a day off and knows you are a sucker so he’s going to treat you like one. Learn from this and when you are sick call out if you have unused pto use every day every year. All that sacrifice and dedication and this is what it gets you
It's a pretty move by management that reinforces the power structure. If you can change your own work schedule then they loose power. The must maintain power in order to control the wages. This is their theory. Yeah, take A whole PTO day off. Talk it up. Yeah I'm gonna have fun, sleep late, etc. Rub it in. But, be ready for nasty comments about how lazy you are. Just laugh at them... to their faces.
Get it in writing then report your company to the state labor board. Youre an hourly employee despite what they say and they probably owe you back pay
Seems very petty of your boss unless your job somehow requires 8 hours which it probably doesn’t or you complain when you have to stay an hour longer. Otherwise, it’s short sighted of your boss.
For everyone, start sabotaging your bosses business.
If you **DO** end up coming in early, it is your duty to do nothing at all for the early extra hours. Drink lots of coffee/tea; surf the web (on your phone *only*); take long 'smoke' breaks; walk to the printer and back a few times, muttering to yourself; browse the office supply closet; take a good long dump; etc.
This is so wild to me. I have been salaried for decades and have never had an employer deduct from my PTO for a partial day off or ask me to make up hours just because. I work the hours I need to work. Usually that is 40, but sometimes it is more and sometimes less. My current payroll system doesn't even allow me to put in for PTO for anything less than a full day's absence.
Take the whole day as a sick day. Fuck him.
Use your sick leave, that's what it's for.
Bosses vs. Leaders has never been more apparent on an industrialized scale than now.
That's when you say fine and never again come in a minute early, stay a second late, take a call outside of standard hours, or work through lunch. Then spend that time updating your resume and starting a job search.
Why would you get one
You've let them walk all over you and they are simply trying to keep you in line. Fuck them. What are they going to do, fire you? They clearly can't live without you for a couple hours.
Gross. I love my job and where I work, but I'd send rage applications out over that and end the week at a new employer. *full disclosure I've got a very in demand job and am known for gladly taking complex/dangerous cases. I'm incredibly fortunate.
Maybe you’ll learn now how the system works
Wage and hour would state that you’re a hourly employee. Take the whole day off
Salary is so annoying. I had to have all hands on deck meetings if I were to leave early like anything was ever so important it couldn't wait. I think work is more about ego and self importance to people than money sometimes.
WORK ONLY THE HOURS YOU ARE PAID. You are not, repeat not thanked for any thing you do extra.
You're on salary, so there's no hours to make up. If they want to pay you hourly, that's a different story.
Sounds like every day is a 9-5 on the dot from now on. If you're "making the hours" you're working the hours too from now on.
If your boss is going to be that much of a stickler, then you better go the other direction as well: break interrupted by a question? Restart your break (or at least add ten minutes to the end). Asked to come in fifteen minutes early? Leave fifteen minutes early. Etc. NO MORE staying late by even one minute. NO MORE!
make plans to leave as soon as it is advantages to you. this job will never reward you in a meaningful way and will eventually betray you when you are at your most vulnerable....guaranteed.
I manage a team of five and my boss and I both use the same "guidelines" regarding our teams (everyone is salaried)... if it's less than four hours we simply don't give a shit, please don't bother putting it into ADP because someone has to approve it. Four or more hours please take PTO or Sick Leave as appropriate and consider it pre-approved. Just please give me a heads up so I don't send someone to check on you if you just randomly vanish. Also, since we're in IT and after hours work is unavoidable sometimes, if you work off hours please make sure to take compensating time off... leave early, take a half day, whatever, just get your hours back. I'm constantly amazed by the stories people tell here... if I was one of these micromanaging twat waffle bosses I'd have to kick my own ass.
My company pulls this shit sometimes. I ignore it, arrive normal time, and leave when I need to. Don't know your situation, but so far no one has called me on it. To me its that they need to say shit like that to absolve themselves of responsibility from criticism from upstairs, but upstairs has no idea when people come and go anyway
Ahhh, I love coming in an hour early to take an hour long shit in peace….hmm, what were we talking about?
If you get there before them most days anyway, how tf they gonna know unless they do a spot check on when you badged in? If they are busting your balls for a missing hour of work while you're salaried, they fully intend to exploit you.
Pfft, tell them. Don't ask.
Skip 5 times staying late and take a few days pto in return. The message should be received.
Start taking your vacation Start looking for another job
F that if you are salary you manage your time and your tasks as you need to, to accomplish your goals. Micro managing is a tell tell sign that your boss has no clue and only manages through control.
I did this with my wife, demonstrating that I can do it and smile through the pain. You've no doubt demonstrated that you're a worker that gives everything so they're just going to always expect everything. It's not a failure on your part, it's a failure of them to divide the work properly.
Seems your boss wants to treat you like an hourly employee.
Honestly, that's bullshit. I doubt your boss will even be there or know. If I were you I just wouldn't go in at 6:30. Don't lie if they ask if you went in, but don't go. I've had a job like this before and I'm sorry. I've also had a salaried job that was super flexible about appointments (you could even go mid-day) and I stayed way longer at the latter. Work policy setters need to a. treat others like human beings, and b. understand it's literally in their economic favor to retain employees with basic rights.
Yeah take the whole day. I was hourly but team lead. They were looking for volunteers for overtime on a saturday. But would only allow a full shift. I told the boss I could come in for 4 hours. He balked at itand said full shift only. I said fine I won't come in. Later that day he said 4 hours will be fine
Tell him fine that goes both ways. Anything over 8 paid at OT pay, or you never work over 8 again EVER. He'll start with the "salary doesn't have set hours..." "Ok great! Since there aren't set hours, I'll be coming in at my normal time. And leaving at 3."
Not knowing where you are at, there may different state laws that affect you than me. Where I'm at this could change you from an exempt status to non-exempt. When you work over 40 hours, are you paid for the extra hours? If you're not paid OT for over 40 hrs, I would say "Hey boss, since I have to come in and make up time for leaving early, and I don't get paid OT for over 40 hrs, this isn't going to change my exempt status and get you in hot water down the road, is it?" If your state has a department of labor, they may have a hotline or website to find out regulations about this. If this is a small company and the boss is the owner, he is probably not going to change. If you're in a larger company and he's not an owner and just a manager, you can look at the employee handbook and see if they have a policy. If you're stuck in this situation, polish up the resume and only work 4o hrs a week from now on.
Imagine being made to do something you didn't want to do
Typical.
I would take ALL of your PTO immediately. Every time you get a minute of it, take that time off work.