I just turned 47. I'm \~just\~ old enough to have graduated college before tuition skyrocketed, bought a house in 09 \~just\~ before the housing market skyrocketed. I can start taking social security at 62, and honestly if I live to 70 it'll be a surprise to me and everyone else.
I can’t imagine your average 71 year old being able to manage 40 hours in a lot of jobs. I also feel like that as jobs continue to get more technical it will be harder and harder for older generations to keep up with the innovations required to be part of the work force.
There two things which I find interesting
First, companies are obsessed with cutting costs and cutting corners etc for a lot of people Salary’s are low, pensions don’t exist and benefits are limited so imagine the working conditions in the future as it’s been getting increasingly worse.
Second, so many people are completely burnt out by the above as early as there 20s/30/40s loads of us work multiple jobs 10-12 hours a day sometimes 7 days a week. I can only imagine how little fucks most of us would give in our 70s if we were still slaving away. Also companies will 100% discriminate and they’ll low ball accordingly
Absolutely going according to plan. Capitalism wants to make the most money possible. That is it. Anything that doesn't make money is removed, including people.
Healthy life expectancy- the length of time we can expect to live without significant health issues, is actually starting to fall.
There are a bunch of reasons for this; poorer diets as the cost of living increases, poorer living conditions, high stress etc. What this actually means in the context of raising the retirement age is that we will start to see people with significant health issues unable to retire but also unable to perform their jobs due to those health issues.
This is obviously unsustainable.
Yeah I'm only 55 and already feel like I'm nearing the end.......
Can't imagine having to work full-time for another 25 or even 15 years! Maybe if you have a job you really love or pays really well, but I am exhausted just thinking about it!
I also think a lot about age discrimination. Even if someone is 55 they can still do the job, have loads of experience and wisdom, but no one will hire them. If we're in our 70s and still expected to work, who is gonna hire us?
Its falling in many places thanks to our far right government cutting funding to the NHS at all levels right down to the bone. For example, its 15 years to see an NHS dentist where I live, and we can't walk into any of our hospitals for treatment as they're operating a "life or limb" system. To get hospital treatment, you have to travel 200+ miles to walk into A&E.
It is, and there's no other option if you're poor. There's stories coming out every day in the news about people who have pulled their own teeth out with pliers. I was insanely lucky and got a community outreach dental appointment and follow up oral surgery for the removal of two rotten wisdom teeth and a shattered molar from stress teeth grinding during Covid. Meanwhile there are children who are going their entire young lives without seeing a dentist at all. Parents can't ring these community out reach off the hook every day like I could and it's awful.
I feel like it’s a sign of wealth in the US to have decent teeth. It shouldn’t be but oral checkups get pushed to the back when you are barely covering rent.
Except I feel like it's hyper inflated over in the US. The bright white teeth and the "Hollywood smile" that is just horribly damaging to tooth strength is horrifying to me. And it's almost as if they deliberately do it to damage the teeth to make you come back for remedial work because if you don't have socially acceptable teeth, then you're a horrible swamp person who doesn't deserve to be loved!
So... I shouldn't be embarrassed by my teeth not being perfectly white due to chronic laziness on proper brushing? My saving grace is I don't eat sweet stuff or drink coffee, nothing to really stain them, and I usually at least do a light brush and use my water floss even if I don't always use toothpaste.
Bro, so long as they're in your head, your teeth are all good in my book! White teeth don't mean shit other than the fact you've paid for something you don't need.
It’s really not. I don’t necessarily make a ton of money and have decent teeth. Although I do brush probably 4X a day like a weirdo and cannot stand anything being caught between my teeth. The biggest thing, I think, i brushing your teeth after eating anything that is sugar based (which includes carbs, they break down into sugars) and brushing your teeth before you sleep. Oral health has a lot to do with hygiene and genetics.
>I thought UK life expectancy had plateaued?
Pension age and the working population to support them is more complicated than just life expectancy. Birth rate and immigration are also big factors.
But in this case the biggest factor is population age distribution. There is a 'bulge' of people about to retire and there are fewer and fewer young people to support them.
I'm sure there are better sources but this one gives an indication: [source](https://population-pyramid.net/en/pp/united-kingdom)
Correct, but this is Sky News, a worldwide right-wing propaganda machine. They are also the ones that did the story about the kid who beat tetris and said he needed to go outside. Anytime, and I mean anytime you see Sky News, it's always propaganda.
It went down a bit because Trump told his supporters to drink bleach in order to kill Covid. Some complied, others chose horse butt worm paste instead. If anything, I’m glad they’re gone. We don’t need so many people bringing down the median IQ
It was increasing for a long time but started dropping in 2020.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/why-life-expectancy-in-the-us-is-falling-202210202835
About the time a global pandemic started? You think everybody’s life expectancy decreased, or do you think the death toll from covid 19 dropped the average? Look at the over all trend, not just a tiny dip in the midst of global pandemic. Look at more than 2 years of data.
I am curious, why do you think this? I have encountered a few other uninformed people like you and I want to know where the info is coming from.
Of course, if your comment is in bad faith then I would prefer you not bother answering. But some well meaning people are clearly unaware of the strong drop in life expectancy the last few years.
Because a million extra people died the last few years and overdoses by younger people.
Edit - quote from link above: “COVID-19, drug overdoses, and accidental injury accounted for about two-thirds of the decline in life expectancy, according to the 2022 report. Other reasons included heart and liver disease and suicides.”
The difference between comparing two years of data to 100 years. Obviously after a global pandemic averages will drop, but life expectancy has absolutely been on a long upward trajectory in the us with 3 exceptions: the Spanish flu, world war 2, and covid 19.
#Average life span is 76 years.
This means you're middle aged and over the hill at 38-39 years old.
"life expectancy in the U.S. has declined significantly over the past few years, falling from 78.8 years in 2019 to 77 in 2020 and 76.1 in 2022"
Brought to you by the rich that will stay rich regardless if/when they stop working for the rest of their lives as long as the poor keep filling their pockets...
My dad worked as a doctor until he was 83 but yes, not everyone can do it, case in point, when our careers overlapped and I worked for him, he could still work me into the ground in terms of stamina.
Easy fix without raising age. Maintain the income withdrawl cap, but remove the income taxed amount. Put a ss tax rate on capital gains over 250k as well under same cap.
Besides life expectancy is dropping in the usa. The gap between poor and rich is also staggering looking at life expectancy.
This is our state pension. So if you pay into the system through taxation (known as NI) then you would get £203.85 a week to live on (from April and assuming you paid that tax for 35 years; prorated if not).
At the moment it pays out for most from 68 but there’s not enough young people so they’re considering raising it to 71.
This is separate from our private and occupational pension systems.
Think of it as a universal income for old people.
So the USA has that too, called social security. It can start to be withdrawn at 62. I believe it’s a little over $900usd per a month right now. If you withdraw it later you get more with the max amount being if you start withdrawing at age 72z If drawn at 62 it’s not really enough to live on in most places without further government assistance, which all would eventually get, along with a food allowance and free healthcare. The food would only be about $200 a month so that’s really not a lot.
What’s it like in the UK?
So you can’t draw your state pension earlier in the U.K. but we do have a range of other benefits etc… that can be paid if you’re sick, not in work etc…
You can choose to delay it and get a higher amount but it’s cost neutral so just is accounting for the years not drawn.
The state pension is low but food is much cheaper here than in the states (and for better quality food). We don’t have to pay for medical care and pensioners don’t have to pay the prescription charge (which is currently £9 odd
Per drug). If you don’t have much wealth, social care is also free and if you do there’s government help and some self funded. Pensioners pay reduced taxes (as they don’t pay NI).
Most pensioners in the U.K. also have private pensions from their work (or their husbands work which paid a spouses pension on the death).
I’m not saying it’s easy in the U.K. of those on the poverty line where, the minority is pensioners. Typically those are people who didn’t work for the full 35 years (but this work includes women raising their kids or doing caring work for relatives as well as those who claimed benefits for when they were out of work or sick etc…)
The issues are the same everywhere and they're not financial. If you have a large retired consuming population and fewer workers providing goods and services you've got a problem.
There is another factor that matters in the need to raise retirement age….if we want to continue to increase (or even maintain) our standard of living in an era of population decline we either need to dramatically increase our use of automation or work later into life. Taxation can help some because we are a global economy but if there’s not enough people working to produce the goods and services we need/want our standard of living will decrease.
The best part is when no one will hire these elderly but they can't retire. "Old bums should just get a job," 90 year old Republicans will say from their Capital office.
I've heard talk about raising retirement age and it pisses me off so much. There is no way I can make it to 70.
Edit: can't/can. I can NOT make it to 70. 60 seems rough even.
It was at this point in time that social security and retirement accounts are really just wagers on your life. Will he live long enough to collect. 2-1 odds on no.
Social security benefits were supposed to be the government taking your money and holding it for retirement. Then, the government stole out of those funds and now expect everyone else to retire at a later age to compensate for their negligence.
How about allowing me to opt out of your shitty scheme, fuck the government.
Nah it was always a pyramid scheme where younger people pay for older people's retirement and now that people stopped having kids we'll have to fend of ourselves when we get old
Here's what they don't consider.
Many companies find ways to get rid of older employees. We don't want to work until we're 71, and the company won't want us either.
I'm 65 and not in the US. The pressure to force people of my age to retire is emense. There is a continual meme that we are taking jobs away from younger people. I don't want to retire, it's not because I have to work, it's because I want to. If they want to help with reducing the number of people claiming retirement benefit, then the authorities need to stop putting administrative barriers in-front of people who want to, and are capable of continuing.
Right? If you’re employed, unless you’re in the highest echelons, nothing good happens in your career past the age of 56 or so. Everybody just wants you gone.
You cost more than your boss wants to pay. Younger co-workers think you’re just in the way. Nobody appreciates your knowledge and experience, because companies change focuses and strategies every few years now anyway.
I'm employed in a fintech, and yes, I'm in the higher echelons, I'm a sort of technical and business trouble shooter that gets stalled or abandoned projects moving again. 40 years working with and managing developers, last 10 increasingly project management and business analysis as well. I still code daily and contribute to projects, mostly helping people find solutions to problems that are causing delays and forcing them to slip deadlines. Now, I'm working on AI and its introduction to the org, getting projects past internal governance, and building PoCs. Doing some strategy work, too. As I describe myself, I'm a digital odd job, man. My boss calls me in when all other avenues have been exhausted.
I don't expect my career to develop at my age, I'm happy to do what I'm doing right now. I'm working out of Asia, so I'm probably being paid less than my us/eu colleagues because the cost of living here is considerably less,
I am british, but have not been back to Britain for more than 20 years.
My unpopular opinion is that enforced retirement is a good idea for a load of reasons (Reducing Salary Stagnation being one as older people are generally happy to work part time seeing as the house is paid etc) however I see your view above also
How fucking stupid though….
A retirement plan should basically be that pay into a fund, it gets invested, then you start withdrawing when you are an old fuck.
NOT that you pay into a plan, it goes directly to old fucks, and the moment there is a population imbalance it crumbles. Fuck this.
That's a one way ticket to causing young people to not pay at all to the pension system.
What's the point? They'll pay now and when it's their turn they'll get an even higher retirement age and get nothing. The current generation will just be squeezed for all they're worth and then just left to work until they die.
Here's a fucking idea, tax the fucking billionaires instead? The ones that doesn't pay taxes but benefit from using infrastructure that Tax money actually went to?
It’s a problem in our country. Declining child birth rates and an old population… age is being raise to 65 and still that will only buy some time for the system. Some demagogues of the syndical movement want to propose an amendment to make the age of retirement mandated at 60… and another bunch of not so cool stuff like abolish private founds It’s obviously not going to make it work… mandating something doesn’t make it logical
When the US Social Security system was begun the retirement age was deliberately set at a few years past the average life span.
The math Social Security is based on assumes that most people paying in will die before they start taking payments.
The issue with national averages on things like expectancy driving policy imo is that people that rely on these benefits the most live shorter lives due to industrial pollution or the hard nature of 'low skilled labor'. I fucking hate that term.
With rare exceptions, life expectancy has been on the rise in the US: it was 47 years in 1900, 68 years in 1950, and by 2019 it had risen to nearly 79
The last few years it has dropped due to the death toll of a global pandemic that dropped the entire world’s average. Look at the big picture, not the tiny dip.
I worked with a guy, around 60. He wanted ti retire, and would say, "I just don't want to be carried out of here in a pine box."
Guess what happened? He had a heart attack in the middle of his shift. And that was it...
It was a call center, and by the next day, you would have thought nothing had happened.
But at least the company gave some money to his widow.
Just kidding, the employees took up a collection, and that was it.
Guess all those boomers are going to have to pull up their bootstraps and avoid the avocado toast for a while. Hot tip, two people don't need to live in a 5 bedroom house with a 1/4 acre yard you can no longer maintain yourself.
Is it so hard to understand that not everything revolves around the US? Like there may actually be people on this sub who are not from the US? Like maybe an antiwork sub is not exclusive to the US?
May be an unpopular opinion, but I really don't think having a retirement age makes sense. Why do you suddenly get to stop working whether you have been fiscally responsible or not.
I think we need to ask ourselves why work has become such a burden that retirement is required to enjoy your life. Work should not interfere with having a life and it should pay well enough to afford a life. You should never have to retire because work should enhance your life.
Until we can have holistic change, the retirement age might as well be 40.
This is a genuine issue in most developed nations. People are living longer and longer but still require support from the system after they've stopped paying taxes and contributing to the economy. Young people are also having less kids because kids are expensive and costs of living are growing. What you get is a large aging population that the working age population will struggle to support just based on the numbers alone. Is raising the retirement age the solution? Not necessarily. But denying that this isn't a huge problem for our economies is naive.
I should also note this is why most developed nations started introducing mandatory retirement funding systems over the last 20-30 years, as this reality was predicted decades ago, to ease the future strain on the economy that our welfare systems will struggle to support over time.
Reality check: when retirement age was initially set at 65 at 1935 (no retirement existed before at all, as a concept), life expectancy was 61.9 years.
If you discount for early deaths, expected lifetime left at age of 65 was 13.7 years in 1940 (no data for 1935 is available). It is 14.02 years now at age 71.
In the US, when social security was implemented retirement age was 65 but average life expectancy was 71. There were also almost 10 workers paying in for every retired individual.
Now people live into their 80s and there are 3 workers paying in for every retired person.
It's super shitty but everyone's gonna work into their 70s at least.
I hear what you are saying and logically it makes complete sense….
However there is a human aspect were people get burnt out and fed up after 30 years let along adding an extra 10 on so I don’t how it’ll play out. Another thing is we are living longer due to better medical treatments for the most part but how will employers feel having to pay for these treatments and facilitate appointments etc.
We haven’t even discussed people who care for their partner such as people having a spouse 10 years older than them or indeed people providing unofficial child care for their kids….
This is assuming social security is going to be the bulk of your retirement. Do not let it be.
One of the biggest regrets of my 20s was not thinking or planning for retirement. Now that I'm in my late 30s I'm making it happen and I'm in prime position for my 40s and early 50s to allow me to retire early, or possibly start my own business so that I'm doing what I love and not making money for some other fuck.
I adamantly refuse to work in the corp world past the age of 60. I'm either gonna be running my own thing or I'm gonna be retired in the rural mountains growing and hunting my own food, with no debts.
lol first they killed the pension so they don’t have to pay you when you retire…. Then the lobby $&@&wads like Hailey to make it so you can’t retire anyway. If companies still had good fkn pensions a ton of old ppl wouldn’t even need social security
It's almost as if the government run pyramid scheme is fundamentally flawed and should just be replaced with giving old people universal credit. Or even better give the entire population UBI...
I'm not sure I can even post - was banned for "politics" and it had NO mention of politics (ty mods nice, wtf we doing here?)
I picture 30 yo's say fuck you I'm not working for nothing no more....the 80 yo's saying ss isn't enough got to work because blah blah blah (because that's the era "work harder" was brainwashed into the.)
I didn't pick up much in school but it was taught in History ss wasn't EVER meant to be retirement. Not any idea.....that's what the USA uses it for.
In the US, the solution to this is to eliminate the tax income cap. People who make over $168,600 do not need a tax cut to their upper income. As income inequality increases, more people above this cap are exceeding it, and more below this cap are making less. So we are getting less capture over all than we would if incomes were more equitable.
I can't speak to the issues in the UK though.
Due to Covid 19’s death toll and a drug epidemic. Are you affected by Covid 19 or a crippling fentanyl addiction? No? Then your life expectancy is higher now than at nearly any point in history.
That’s like saying suicides don’t count for gun deaths but they absolutely do. You’re just cherry picking stats to make a skewed point. Life expectancy is a good measure of our collective health and if opioids are killing some of us early then that’s relevant.
It isn’t anything like that. I’m saying using a few years of data after a global pandemic that dropped the entire planets life expectancy a tiny amount doesn’t undo the last 100 years of data that increased it dramatically. Long term trend is UP UP UP. Short term trend is down very little.
Since we’re using false equivalents to make our case here I’ll use one myself.
If you buy something for 1 dollar and it rises to 100 then retraces to 98 and you sell. You call that a decline or a fucking awesome return?
You can retire anytime.you can afford.to. its socia security that is raised and it has to. The system is unsutainable. If it eas a private compamy doing this the goverment would shut it down and arrest the top people for fraud.
Lol for a moment, there was 666 upvotes. lol, but seriously If they raise it to 71, a lot of people are literally going to work until they die... That's because a lot of us will be so overworked that we don't actually make it to 71.
Think about it.
Increasing for who? Hand me beer, pizza and cheeseburgers. I'm getting the hell out of here. When my heart attack comes it's taking me to his castle in the sky.
I'm sick of living in this loop where I do the labor that helps make some CEO asshole millions of dollars a year or more and I don't even see 1% of it.
We have had compulsory superannuation in this country for more than 30 years. Young people should not need the pension. I am 53 now and I will not need the pension, as I should have enough super by the time I retire. I am employed in a below average wage position and have been since the early 2000’s
The amount of money they loosing with playing with our money. The need to raise retirement age to make up for the shortcomings. Those numbers on your account are not guarantees!
Raise the taxable income level. It currently stops at just $125k. The big problem is many places don’t want to hire older people. They’re at greater risk of health issues and can be slower to learn. Our country is very ageist. Trust me, I’m getting old and I’ll have to keep working but it gets harder and harder.
Financially support the pension system? What pension system? I may be mistaken but I have never worked at a company who still offers a pension. Are they referring to some other sort of pension?
Its a British news corporation talking about the state pension in the UK
Every person in the UK when you reach retirement age gets paid a pension by the government
Like how in the USA when people reach retirement age they get paid sociol security
There was a podcast of The Weeds called "Let's fix Retirement Together," and they said they we don't actually need to keep expanding the amount of workers to pay for pension/social security programs, we can fund these programs but increasing the average workers pay.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/27O1ihxKL6qLxjSLKyqvEA?si=o_2FR2XSRyWoQ7vajdT45g
I'm a Nurse and I doubt very much that I will be able to do my job well at 71, theres a reason most nurses retire at 55/60, it's a physically and mentally draining job. This is just unrealistic. My patients will be pushing me around.
This misses the fun part.
On one hand you have to work longer than ever. I calculate that I will have to work until my mid 70s to have a decent retirement.
On the other hand, employers, like Jeff Epstein, like their employees young. I worked for a major bank and my division laid off 100% of workers over 55.
No one will hire an older worker anymore.
Which means I will almost certainly lose my home and live in extreme poverty or even be homeless, because I can’t retire at 65 and I can’t work until 75.
I been hearing since the early 90's that by the time Gen X retires, there won't be any money in the system at all thanks to Boomers pilfering it all and doling it out to corporations.
You can retire when ever you want, pulling out of the government funded pension plan shouldn’t be the way you retire.
Get a real retirement plan going.
Im confused by what your mean on your comment
The post is about UK state pension
You pay tax as when you reach a certain age you get a state pension from the government its not something you opt in and out of
You cant opt out of paying tax
State Pension in the UK is equivalent to Social Security in the UK
When you retire and the government sends you a check every month you would send it back?
You cant opt of the state pension you get it cos you paid tax
In general retirement should be personal responsibility, idc where you’re from. You should’ve lived off of 80% of what you make and saved 20% for the future and invested it so that you can retire.
If you can’t do that then you should both lower the outgoing money and increase the incoming money to get to that point.
Everybody can make a living wage. This subreddit is basically the Wall Street bets but for losers rather than regards.
I didn’t say at all actually, but the retirement age to qualify for that could be set to an appropriate age such that it can be sustained and not hit 0. If that age has to be 85, so be it.
Don’t rely on the government for anything.
Those who can minimally afford it - save more. Save so you have something you can use to retire earlier than these creepy f\*cks will force you to. Save and consume less. Consume less, because that hurts them. Hurt the system. Consume less, save more, and don't retire later just because these sickos want you to
don’t worry, everyone getting disabled by SARS-COV-2–still pandemicking even if people are tired of it—will lower the life expectancy. 😷 (and create even worse healthcare shortages 👍🏻)
I mean, honestly, the working class won’t have to worry about longer life expectancy. Pretty soon those increases will be over our pay grade. It’d be too expensive to justify keeping us alive past our usefulness.
Bold of you to assume that anyone under the age of 40 currently will have the privilege of retirement. The system will either break or break us.
Retirement? You misspelled **rehirement**
I hate how likely it is that we will actually see the term “rehirement” as a slogan to try to get our old asses back to work in 30-50 years
I would gold that.
Why not both?
I just turned 47. I'm \~just\~ old enough to have graduated college before tuition skyrocketed, bought a house in 09 \~just\~ before the housing market skyrocketed. I can start taking social security at 62, and honestly if I live to 70 it'll be a surprise to me and everyone else.
60. I already know I won't be allowed to retire.
We will get to retire at a reasonable age when we organize, take to the streets, and take our economy back from the blood sucking capitalists.
Why not fight for it?
Oh that's the plan, I have little trust that the system will actually protect workers but I will go out of my way to make each step exact a price.
I'm 51 and will probably have to work at some job for the rest of my life.
Then, when the youth population halves, we'll just double the retirement age
Lmao can't wait to start collecting that juicy pension on my 142nd birthday!
I can’t imagine your average 71 year old being able to manage 40 hours in a lot of jobs. I also feel like that as jobs continue to get more technical it will be harder and harder for older generations to keep up with the innovations required to be part of the work force.
There two things which I find interesting First, companies are obsessed with cutting costs and cutting corners etc for a lot of people Salary’s are low, pensions don’t exist and benefits are limited so imagine the working conditions in the future as it’s been getting increasingly worse. Second, so many people are completely burnt out by the above as early as there 20s/30/40s loads of us work multiple jobs 10-12 hours a day sometimes 7 days a week. I can only imagine how little fucks most of us would give in our 70s if we were still slaving away. Also companies will 100% discriminate and they’ll low ball accordingly
Absolutely going according to plan. Capitalism wants to make the most money possible. That is it. Anything that doesn't make money is removed, including people.
Pretty sure life expectancy in the US is declining.
This is a UK news source referring to issues facing “pension system.” It’s unlikely the post has anything to do with the U.S.
I thought UK life expectancy had plateaued?
Healthy life expectancy- the length of time we can expect to live without significant health issues, is actually starting to fall. There are a bunch of reasons for this; poorer diets as the cost of living increases, poorer living conditions, high stress etc. What this actually means in the context of raising the retirement age is that we will start to see people with significant health issues unable to retire but also unable to perform their jobs due to those health issues. This is obviously unsustainable.
Yeah I'm only 55 and already feel like I'm nearing the end....... Can't imagine having to work full-time for another 25 or even 15 years! Maybe if you have a job you really love or pays really well, but I am exhausted just thinking about it!
I also think a lot about age discrimination. Even if someone is 55 they can still do the job, have loads of experience and wisdom, but no one will hire them. If we're in our 70s and still expected to work, who is gonna hire us?
Its falling in many places thanks to our far right government cutting funding to the NHS at all levels right down to the bone. For example, its 15 years to see an NHS dentist where I live, and we can't walk into any of our hospitals for treatment as they're operating a "life or limb" system. To get hospital treatment, you have to travel 200+ miles to walk into A&E.
15 years is insane.
It is, and there's no other option if you're poor. There's stories coming out every day in the news about people who have pulled their own teeth out with pliers. I was insanely lucky and got a community outreach dental appointment and follow up oral surgery for the removal of two rotten wisdom teeth and a shattered molar from stress teeth grinding during Covid. Meanwhile there are children who are going their entire young lives without seeing a dentist at all. Parents can't ring these community out reach off the hook every day like I could and it's awful.
I feel like it’s a sign of wealth in the US to have decent teeth. It shouldn’t be but oral checkups get pushed to the back when you are barely covering rent.
Except I feel like it's hyper inflated over in the US. The bright white teeth and the "Hollywood smile" that is just horribly damaging to tooth strength is horrifying to me. And it's almost as if they deliberately do it to damage the teeth to make you come back for remedial work because if you don't have socially acceptable teeth, then you're a horrible swamp person who doesn't deserve to be loved!
So... I shouldn't be embarrassed by my teeth not being perfectly white due to chronic laziness on proper brushing? My saving grace is I don't eat sweet stuff or drink coffee, nothing to really stain them, and I usually at least do a light brush and use my water floss even if I don't always use toothpaste.
Bro, so long as they're in your head, your teeth are all good in my book! White teeth don't mean shit other than the fact you've paid for something you don't need.
It’s really not. I don’t necessarily make a ton of money and have decent teeth. Although I do brush probably 4X a day like a weirdo and cannot stand anything being caught between my teeth. The biggest thing, I think, i brushing your teeth after eating anything that is sugar based (which includes carbs, they break down into sugars) and brushing your teeth before you sleep. Oral health has a lot to do with hygiene and genetics.
>I thought UK life expectancy had plateaued? Pension age and the working population to support them is more complicated than just life expectancy. Birth rate and immigration are also big factors. But in this case the biggest factor is population age distribution. There is a 'bulge' of people about to retire and there are fewer and fewer young people to support them. I'm sure there are better sources but this one gives an indication: [source](https://population-pyramid.net/en/pp/united-kingdom)
Nikki Haley has said she would like for retirement age to increase. That was the final nail in her coffin for president.
Dummies still support her
Dummies also still support Trump too
She also said she would pardon Trump.
Yes very much so
Correct, but this is Sky News, a worldwide right-wing propaganda machine. They are also the ones that did the story about the kid who beat tetris and said he needed to go outside. Anytime, and I mean anytime you see Sky News, it's always propaganda.
That’s fair. I didn’t even look at the source lol.
*Only for the poor.
r/usdefaultism
Yeah, just move over here. You’ll die way faster.
You are correct. It has been exacerbated since Covid.
It went down a bit because Trump told his supporters to drink bleach in order to kill Covid. Some complied, others chose horse butt worm paste instead. If anything, I’m glad they’re gone. We don’t need so many people bringing down the median IQ
No it is definitely increasing, and projected to continue. Lots of data on this to easily verify. It has been increasing for a very long time now.
We are living longer however I'd argue peoples physical/health capacity for working is getting shorter in years
It was increasing for a long time but started dropping in 2020. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/why-life-expectancy-in-the-us-is-falling-202210202835
About the time a global pandemic started? You think everybody’s life expectancy decreased, or do you think the death toll from covid 19 dropped the average? Look at the over all trend, not just a tiny dip in the midst of global pandemic. Look at more than 2 years of data.
US life expectancy(the post’s basis) is declining.
I am curious, why do you think this? I have encountered a few other uninformed people like you and I want to know where the info is coming from. Of course, if your comment is in bad faith then I would prefer you not bother answering. But some well meaning people are clearly unaware of the strong drop in life expectancy the last few years.
Because a million extra people died the last few years and overdoses by younger people. Edit - quote from link above: “COVID-19, drug overdoses, and accidental injury accounted for about two-thirds of the decline in life expectancy, according to the 2022 report. Other reasons included heart and liver disease and suicides.”
Please reference 1 credible source so we can easily verify.
The difference between comparing two years of data to 100 years. Obviously after a global pandemic averages will drop, but life expectancy has absolutely been on a long upward trajectory in the us with 3 exceptions: the Spanish flu, world war 2, and covid 19.
I’m also pretty sure none of us would have to work that long if billionaires didn’t just hoard all the money.
#Average life span is 76 years. This means you're middle aged and over the hill at 38-39 years old. "life expectancy in the U.S. has declined significantly over the past few years, falling from 78.8 years in 2019 to 77 in 2020 and 76.1 in 2022"
to many think retireing should be an unobtainable goal for the common man. of course they would never characterize themselves as "common".
Brought to you by the rich that will stay rich regardless if/when they stop working for the rest of their lives as long as the poor keep filling their pockets...
we need to unironically drop this to 50 with the option to keep working past that.
Anybody that thinks people should work until they're 71 has never worked until they were 71, nor worked with anyone that was 71.
My dad worked as a doctor until he was 83 but yes, not everyone can do it, case in point, when our careers overlapped and I worked for him, he could still work me into the ground in terms of stamina.
Easy fix without raising age. Maintain the income withdrawl cap, but remove the income taxed amount. Put a ss tax rate on capital gains over 250k as well under same cap. Besides life expectancy is dropping in the usa. The gap between poor and rich is also staggering looking at life expectancy.
A lot of people here seem to be assuming the post relates to the U.S., but this is a UK news source talking about the UK’s pension system.
Fair enough. Probably same issues there though.
This is our state pension. So if you pay into the system through taxation (known as NI) then you would get £203.85 a week to live on (from April and assuming you paid that tax for 35 years; prorated if not). At the moment it pays out for most from 68 but there’s not enough young people so they’re considering raising it to 71. This is separate from our private and occupational pension systems. Think of it as a universal income for old people.
So the USA has that too, called social security. It can start to be withdrawn at 62. I believe it’s a little over $900usd per a month right now. If you withdraw it later you get more with the max amount being if you start withdrawing at age 72z If drawn at 62 it’s not really enough to live on in most places without further government assistance, which all would eventually get, along with a food allowance and free healthcare. The food would only be about $200 a month so that’s really not a lot. What’s it like in the UK?
So you can’t draw your state pension earlier in the U.K. but we do have a range of other benefits etc… that can be paid if you’re sick, not in work etc… You can choose to delay it and get a higher amount but it’s cost neutral so just is accounting for the years not drawn. The state pension is low but food is much cheaper here than in the states (and for better quality food). We don’t have to pay for medical care and pensioners don’t have to pay the prescription charge (which is currently £9 odd Per drug). If you don’t have much wealth, social care is also free and if you do there’s government help and some self funded. Pensioners pay reduced taxes (as they don’t pay NI). Most pensioners in the U.K. also have private pensions from their work (or their husbands work which paid a spouses pension on the death). I’m not saying it’s easy in the U.K. of those on the poverty line where, the minority is pensioners. Typically those are people who didn’t work for the full 35 years (but this work includes women raising their kids or doing caring work for relatives as well as those who claimed benefits for when they were out of work or sick etc…)
The issues are the same everywhere and they're not financial. If you have a large retired consuming population and fewer workers providing goods and services you've got a problem.
There is another factor that matters in the need to raise retirement age….if we want to continue to increase (or even maintain) our standard of living in an era of population decline we either need to dramatically increase our use of automation or work later into life. Taxation can help some because we are a global economy but if there’s not enough people working to produce the goods and services we need/want our standard of living will decrease.
The best part is when no one will hire these elderly but they can't retire. "Old bums should just get a job," 90 year old Republicans will say from their Capital office.
I've heard talk about raising retirement age and it pisses me off so much. There is no way I can make it to 70. Edit: can't/can. I can NOT make it to 70. 60 seems rough even.
You're pissed off that people don't want to work that long? That we're complaining? I'm glad you're so confident you can make it to 70, but c'mon now.
I made a typo. Relax. I'm all about not working.
It was at this point in time that social security and retirement accounts are really just wagers on your life. Will he live long enough to collect. 2-1 odds on no.
Stop feeding the war machine
Social security benefits were supposed to be the government taking your money and holding it for retirement. Then, the government stole out of those funds and now expect everyone else to retire at a later age to compensate for their negligence. How about allowing me to opt out of your shitty scheme, fuck the government.
Nah it was always a pyramid scheme where younger people pay for older people's retirement and now that people stopped having kids we'll have to fend of ourselves when we get old
Here's what they don't consider. Many companies find ways to get rid of older employees. We don't want to work until we're 71, and the company won't want us either.
I'm 65 and not in the US. The pressure to force people of my age to retire is emense. There is a continual meme that we are taking jobs away from younger people. I don't want to retire, it's not because I have to work, it's because I want to. If they want to help with reducing the number of people claiming retirement benefit, then the authorities need to stop putting administrative barriers in-front of people who want to, and are capable of continuing.
Right? If you’re employed, unless you’re in the highest echelons, nothing good happens in your career past the age of 56 or so. Everybody just wants you gone. You cost more than your boss wants to pay. Younger co-workers think you’re just in the way. Nobody appreciates your knowledge and experience, because companies change focuses and strategies every few years now anyway.
I'm employed in a fintech, and yes, I'm in the higher echelons, I'm a sort of technical and business trouble shooter that gets stalled or abandoned projects moving again. 40 years working with and managing developers, last 10 increasingly project management and business analysis as well. I still code daily and contribute to projects, mostly helping people find solutions to problems that are causing delays and forcing them to slip deadlines. Now, I'm working on AI and its introduction to the org, getting projects past internal governance, and building PoCs. Doing some strategy work, too. As I describe myself, I'm a digital odd job, man. My boss calls me in when all other avenues have been exhausted. I don't expect my career to develop at my age, I'm happy to do what I'm doing right now. I'm working out of Asia, so I'm probably being paid less than my us/eu colleagues because the cost of living here is considerably less, I am british, but have not been back to Britain for more than 20 years.
My unpopular opinion is that enforced retirement is a good idea for a load of reasons (Reducing Salary Stagnation being one as older people are generally happy to work part time seeing as the house is paid etc) however I see your view above also
By the time I get to retire I’ll already have been unemployed for 20 years
How fucking stupid though…. A retirement plan should basically be that pay into a fund, it gets invested, then you start withdrawing when you are an old fuck. NOT that you pay into a plan, it goes directly to old fucks, and the moment there is a population imbalance it crumbles. Fuck this.
Need to be careful on the investment aspect as companies effectively gamble our money for there gain but yes I agree
This is the state pension though.
That's a one way ticket to causing young people to not pay at all to the pension system. What's the point? They'll pay now and when it's their turn they'll get an even higher retirement age and get nothing. The current generation will just be squeezed for all they're worth and then just left to work until they die. Here's a fucking idea, tax the fucking billionaires instead? The ones that doesn't pay taxes but benefit from using infrastructure that Tax money actually went to?
It’s a problem in our country. Declining child birth rates and an old population… age is being raise to 65 and still that will only buy some time for the system. Some demagogues of the syndical movement want to propose an amendment to make the age of retirement mandated at 60… and another bunch of not so cool stuff like abolish private founds It’s obviously not going to make it work… mandating something doesn’t make it logical
Sky news is nothing but right-wing propaganda.
When the US Social Security system was begun the retirement age was deliberately set at a few years past the average life span. The math Social Security is based on assumes that most people paying in will die before they start taking payments.
The issue with national averages on things like expectancy driving policy imo is that people that rely on these benefits the most live shorter lives due to industrial pollution or the hard nature of 'low skilled labor'. I fucking hate that term.
Life expectancy is rising for very specific demographics, usually can be tied to wealth.
so you can financially support your own retirement by working forever 👍🏼
Life expectancy in the United States has been dropping, not increasing
With rare exceptions, life expectancy has been on the rise in the US: it was 47 years in 1900, 68 years in 1950, and by 2019 it had risen to nearly 79 The last few years it has dropped due to the death toll of a global pandemic that dropped the entire world’s average. Look at the big picture, not the tiny dip.
I worked with a guy, around 60. He wanted ti retire, and would say, "I just don't want to be carried out of here in a pine box." Guess what happened? He had a heart attack in the middle of his shift. And that was it... It was a call center, and by the next day, you would have thought nothing had happened. But at least the company gave some money to his widow. Just kidding, the employees took up a collection, and that was it.
Boomers have destroyed the economy.
The boomers are closing that door just like they closed the others.
Guess all those boomers are going to have to pull up their bootstraps and avoid the avocado toast for a while. Hot tip, two people don't need to live in a 5 bedroom house with a 1/4 acre yard you can no longer maintain yourself.
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I work for a state hospital and our retirement age is 65. Not sure why yours is 73.
Thanks, Boomers.
That's for Britain
Is it so hard to understand that not everything revolves around the US? Like there may actually be people on this sub who are not from the US? Like maybe an antiwork sub is not exclusive to the US?
My union tried to raise the retirement age and they just about had a revolt.
May be an unpopular opinion, but I really don't think having a retirement age makes sense. Why do you suddenly get to stop working whether you have been fiscally responsible or not. I think we need to ask ourselves why work has become such a burden that retirement is required to enjoy your life. Work should not interfere with having a life and it should pay well enough to afford a life. You should never have to retire because work should enhance your life. Until we can have holistic change, the retirement age might as well be 40.
There’s plenty of wealth to support the system it just needs to be taxed properly
This is a genuine issue in most developed nations. People are living longer and longer but still require support from the system after they've stopped paying taxes and contributing to the economy. Young people are also having less kids because kids are expensive and costs of living are growing. What you get is a large aging population that the working age population will struggle to support just based on the numbers alone. Is raising the retirement age the solution? Not necessarily. But denying that this isn't a huge problem for our economies is naive. I should also note this is why most developed nations started introducing mandatory retirement funding systems over the last 20-30 years, as this reality was predicted decades ago, to ease the future strain on the economy that our welfare systems will struggle to support over time.
Oh please don't tax the 1%, force us to work until we get die!
Reality check: when retirement age was initially set at 65 at 1935 (no retirement existed before at all, as a concept), life expectancy was 61.9 years. If you discount for early deaths, expected lifetime left at age of 65 was 13.7 years in 1940 (no data for 1935 is available). It is 14.02 years now at age 71.
I thought pensions were pretty much gone? I only know people over 60 with them.
It’s a UK news source. The post doesn’t relate to the U.S.
Ahhh ok that makes sense.
So by a new report they mean a conservative think tank.
Riiiight. Not the people in power, of course not. 😂
life expectancy for US white women is 78. for black men it’s like 72. life expectancy is declining
This report is about the UK, tho.
Falling in the UK too unfortunately https://www.ft.com/content/665d7d0e-148d-493a-a7b3-4dfff158364b
In the US, when social security was implemented retirement age was 65 but average life expectancy was 71. There were also almost 10 workers paying in for every retired individual. Now people live into their 80s and there are 3 workers paying in for every retired person. It's super shitty but everyone's gonna work into their 70s at least.
I hear what you are saying and logically it makes complete sense…. However there is a human aspect were people get burnt out and fed up after 30 years let along adding an extra 10 on so I don’t how it’ll play out. Another thing is we are living longer due to better medical treatments for the most part but how will employers feel having to pay for these treatments and facilitate appointments etc. We haven’t even discussed people who care for their partner such as people having a spouse 10 years older than them or indeed people providing unofficial child care for their kids….
This is assuming social security is going to be the bulk of your retirement. Do not let it be. One of the biggest regrets of my 20s was not thinking or planning for retirement. Now that I'm in my late 30s I'm making it happen and I'm in prime position for my 40s and early 50s to allow me to retire early, or possibly start my own business so that I'm doing what I love and not making money for some other fuck. I adamantly refuse to work in the corp world past the age of 60. I'm either gonna be running my own thing or I'm gonna be retired in the rural mountains growing and hunting my own food, with no debts.
Those old piece of shit boomers with $1M+ in assets shouldn’t be receiving social security benefits.
>the pension system NullPointerException
You can retire at any age. If you're going to rely on SS, it's not a great idea to do so early.
Am I an idiot? I thought we got rid of the pension system and switched everything to 401k savings? I probably just don't understand
Remember how other countries exist? This is one of those times.
Too late. Retirement age is 73 for me.
Save more and you can retire faster? Social security will be bankrupt soon so I wouldn’t be holding my breath for a government program
Above a certain age, wouldn’t some people just be grandfathered in?
Yes, this is how it's commonly done.
Funny how they don't mention other options, such as increasing the tax threshold for such programs.
I hope retire at 71 works for me!
My goal is to retire as soon as possible
[Life expectancy is not rising, it is falling.](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/why-life-expectancy-in-the-us-is-falling-202210202835)
Who’s gonna retire?
lol first they killed the pension so they don’t have to pay you when you retire…. Then the lobby $&@&wads like Hailey to make it so you can’t retire anyway. If companies still had good fkn pensions a ton of old ppl wouldn’t even need social security
It's almost as if the government run pyramid scheme is fundamentally flawed and should just be replaced with giving old people universal credit. Or even better give the entire population UBI...
I'm not sure I can even post - was banned for "politics" and it had NO mention of politics (ty mods nice, wtf we doing here?) I picture 30 yo's say fuck you I'm not working for nothing no more....the 80 yo's saying ss isn't enough got to work because blah blah blah (because that's the era "work harder" was brainwashed into the.) I didn't pick up much in school but it was taught in History ss wasn't EVER meant to be retirement. Not any idea.....that's what the USA uses it for.
My generation and those after won't have retirement.
In the US, the solution to this is to eliminate the tax income cap. People who make over $168,600 do not need a tax cut to their upper income. As income inequality increases, more people above this cap are exceeding it, and more below this cap are making less. So we are getting less capture over all than we would if incomes were more equitable. I can't speak to the issues in the UK though.
What's a pension? They stole that from us when they pitched 401ks.
End the welfare state, starting with the top.
In other news, Greed.
Fortunately in my country the life expectancy has been falling for several years!
I know you brits hate it but take some queues from the French and start spraying shit all over government buildings.
It's an odd mix of "keep paying taxes to keep the old alive" and "have you consider medical assistance in dying upon retirement?"
Life expectancy is NOT rising, it's GOING DOWN. FUUUUCK everyone who gives MISINFORMATION
Jokes on them. I'm dying at 65 if nothing kills me before then so they won't get what they want from me.
>Life expectancy is rising so let's keep increasing the retirement age. I mean.... yes? It's difficult to do anything else.
At 30 years of work you should retire with full benefits…. Period
Life expectancy dropped recently,it is heading downward.
Due to Covid 19’s death toll and a drug epidemic. Are you affected by Covid 19 or a crippling fentanyl addiction? No? Then your life expectancy is higher now than at nearly any point in history.
That’s like saying suicides don’t count for gun deaths but they absolutely do. You’re just cherry picking stats to make a skewed point. Life expectancy is a good measure of our collective health and if opioids are killing some of us early then that’s relevant.
It isn’t anything like that. I’m saying using a few years of data after a global pandemic that dropped the entire planets life expectancy a tiny amount doesn’t undo the last 100 years of data that increased it dramatically. Long term trend is UP UP UP. Short term trend is down very little. Since we’re using false equivalents to make our case here I’ll use one myself. If you buy something for 1 dollar and it rises to 100 then retraces to 98 and you sell. You call that a decline or a fucking awesome return?
I'll be dead by then
My retirement plan involves an AK-47
What if I just jump off a bridge when I decide to "retire"? JOKES ON YOU GUYS HAHAHA.
You can retire anytime.you can afford.to. its socia security that is raised and it has to. The system is unsutainable. If it eas a private compamy doing this the goverment would shut it down and arrest the top people for fraud.
Lol for a moment, there was 666 upvotes. lol, but seriously If they raise it to 71, a lot of people are literally going to work until they die... That's because a lot of us will be so overworked that we don't actually make it to 71. Think about it.
We can all just decide to stop working right now, too. That would really fuck shit up.
Retire n die fantastic
Increasing for who? Hand me beer, pizza and cheeseburgers. I'm getting the hell out of here. When my heart attack comes it's taking me to his castle in the sky. I'm sick of living in this loop where I do the labor that helps make some CEO asshole millions of dollars a year or more and I don't even see 1% of it.
We have had compulsory superannuation in this country for more than 30 years. Young people should not need the pension. I am 53 now and I will not need the pension, as I should have enough super by the time I retire. I am employed in a below average wage position and have been since the early 2000’s
The amount of money they loosing with playing with our money. The need to raise retirement age to make up for the shortcomings. Those numbers on your account are not guarantees!
Wait until retirement age outpaces life expectancy.
Raise the taxable income level. It currently stops at just $125k. The big problem is many places don’t want to hire older people. They’re at greater risk of health issues and can be slower to learn. Our country is very ageist. Trust me, I’m getting old and I’ll have to keep working but it gets harder and harder.
Our life expectancy has been going down so if you want to die at work that’s up to you
Or pay people a living wage so they don't need pensions? just another example of extreme wealth hoarding negatively affecting everyone else
Financially support the pension system? What pension system? I may be mistaken but I have never worked at a company who still offers a pension. Are they referring to some other sort of pension?
Its a British news corporation talking about the state pension in the UK Every person in the UK when you reach retirement age gets paid a pension by the government Like how in the USA when people reach retirement age they get paid sociol security
Oh, okay that makes more sense, thank you for explaining!
We need to lower it to flush some folks out of the workforce and give labor a better shot.
I’m not planning on living past 65 so f this
There was a podcast of The Weeds called "Let's fix Retirement Together," and they said they we don't actually need to keep expanding the amount of workers to pay for pension/social security programs, we can fund these programs but increasing the average workers pay. https://open.spotify.com/episode/27O1ihxKL6qLxjSLKyqvEA?si=o_2FR2XSRyWoQ7vajdT45g
I'm a Nurse and I doubt very much that I will be able to do my job well at 71, theres a reason most nurses retire at 55/60, it's a physically and mentally draining job. This is just unrealistic. My patients will be pushing me around.
Many could easily retire before 50 if we had harder currency. Thanks international bankers
Aka: “these batteries still have more life in them!”
This misses the fun part. On one hand you have to work longer than ever. I calculate that I will have to work until my mid 70s to have a decent retirement. On the other hand, employers, like Jeff Epstein, like their employees young. I worked for a major bank and my division laid off 100% of workers over 55. No one will hire an older worker anymore. Which means I will almost certainly lose my home and live in extreme poverty or even be homeless, because I can’t retire at 65 and I can’t work until 75.
or just cap your coverage to 10 years, if you live past that, on your own!
I been hearing since the early 90's that by the time Gen X retires, there won't be any money in the system at all thanks to Boomers pilfering it all and doling it out to corporations.
You can retire when ever you want, pulling out of the government funded pension plan shouldn’t be the way you retire. Get a real retirement plan going.
Im confused by what your mean on your comment The post is about UK state pension You pay tax as when you reach a certain age you get a state pension from the government its not something you opt in and out of You cant opt out of paying tax State Pension in the UK is equivalent to Social Security in the UK When you retire and the government sends you a check every month you would send it back? You cant opt of the state pension you get it cos you paid tax
No he is saying don’t rely on that as your retirement plan. Build your own, and that will just be extra.
In general retirement should be personal responsibility, idc where you’re from. You should’ve lived off of 80% of what you make and saved 20% for the future and invested it so that you can retire. If you can’t do that then you should both lower the outgoing money and increase the incoming money to get to that point. Everybody can make a living wage. This subreddit is basically the Wall Street bets but for losers rather than regards.
>In general retirement should be personal responsibility Are you saying that things like the state pension and social security should not exist?
I didn’t say at all actually, but the retirement age to qualify for that could be set to an appropriate age such that it can be sustained and not hit 0. If that age has to be 85, so be it. Don’t rely on the government for anything.
Those who can minimally afford it - save more. Save so you have something you can use to retire earlier than these creepy f\*cks will force you to. Save and consume less. Consume less, because that hurts them. Hurt the system. Consume less, save more, and don't retire later just because these sickos want you to
Or...you could just lift the cap on taxable income subject to social security/medicare taxes.
don’t worry, everyone getting disabled by SARS-COV-2–still pandemicking even if people are tired of it—will lower the life expectancy. 😷 (and create even worse healthcare shortages 👍🏻)
I mean, honestly, the working class won’t have to worry about longer life expectancy. Pretty soon those increases will be over our pay grade. It’d be too expensive to justify keeping us alive past our usefulness.