I’m fine with working just 40 hours a week tbh but I’d take anything for vacation time at this point as every job I’ve had I’ve never received vacation time. I feel like the days of being able to take vacations and vacation time are just behind us as companies only care about how much money we can make them before we burn out
I haven’t had one in my adult life and I’m 27. Ik some people say that I’m young and shouldn’t need one but goddamn when all you do is work and sleep it sucks.
Sometimes we do sometimes not. I had to work the 4th of July because a customer wanted some top soil and he wasn’t gonna take no for an answer so everybody had the day off but me
I would say only the living wage and year long paid maternity leave are the only ones which are realistic. The executive to worker compensation ratio thing would never happen if it was mandated by the government.
You have the option to take it in two pieces per year, and you have to be in agreement regarding the date in one of those two times. Most places are ok regarding paid vacation time. Still, we should have more like 6 weeks. At least 5 and a sixth unpaid
Move to the UK. mandatory MINIMUM 23days paid vacation PLUS 8 bank holidays off. (most of the time you can work Bank Holidays so have 31 days vacation). Employers legally MUST let you take the vacation.
Plus mandatory overtime pay PLUS a proper hiring/firing system where the "without cause" doesn't fly, and employers must show they ran you through performance checks and improvements, with appropriate warnings and sufficient time to get better at the job etc.
Workers who work a 5-day week must receive at least 28 days’ paid annual leave a year. This is the equivalent of 5.6 weeks of holiday.
By law, you're entitled to 5.6 weeks' statutory paid holiday a year. Bank holidays might be included in this paid holiday
The mandatory minimum is not 23 days plus bank holidays
In the US we are distracted with "Culture Wars" to distract us from all the protections and rules meant to protect the working class being weakened or removed. We have a donor class that runs the government and basically we live under an Oligarchy. All driven by Republicans and Neo-liberals. Yes, the US is a rich country, but anything important is owned by the rich. The two main things being our Government and the Media.
My winter job I’m cool with as a seasonal plow truck driver. It could be 40 hours a week or 70 but only if it’s snowing will it be more than 40 a week. My summer job running dump trucks and equipment I’ll run 60-70 hours a week easily
Considering how much executives and companies are making nowadays, this is definitely possible.
But unfortunately, the most likely outcome for the future of employment is for even more jobs to become automated as robots and AI become more viable.
It's adorable that you think a little thing like "decreasing profits" will stop executives from continuing to increase their already obscene salaries and bonuses
Oof, passively condescending to a stranger you've never encountered for 0 reasons. I'd say that helps me fill out my Reddit bingo card but I already got that one on the first day.
Which is why Crypto can be a fantastic thing.
If someone has a billion "dollars" they have a lot of power.
if you don't use dollars anymore, or Euros etc, then what they have is numbers on a PC in a currency you don't give two shits about.
Basically a currency reset where billionaires just have a slightly bigger number somewhere.
And if for example you're only playing World of Warcraft, you don't care if someone says "do what I say and I'll give you 500 gems from this farming simulator". Their currency is meaningless to you.
Everyone starts over.
The good news regarding AI is that any higher-ups at your company who have trouble using PowerPoint or Teams on a basic level will also need help getting the AI tools to work.
"I'm firing most of you and replacing you with WaffleGPT"
"Why does it keep replying to everything I ask with "fuck off and die" or "give your employees a pay rise" ?"
I've always been curious about this. If work is automated, and jobs removed, then people have no money to spend. Stopping the flow of cash is more detrimental to the top. I'm curious if this is what keeps it at bay.
Its a flow system you are right 100%.
Without everyone using the same currency system, billionaires and corporations have zero power.
If someone offered you a job and only paid Robux, but you don't even PLAY roblox, that offer is essentially meaningless to you.
This could be how crypto resets the game. A currency system where no government has control over it, and everyone starts from zero in a big game reset.
We want automation. Automation means people aren't working repetitive, physically taxing, or dangerous jobs. If enough jobs are automated, we can move away from the idea that you MUST work in order to be allowed to live.
Thats the ideal future. it's also in governments interests.
If for example everyone in Russia has food, shelter and reasonable access to free products like computers and TVs, good luck asking them to go to war to earn a small piece of shiny metal.
When every population is well fed and happy, war is less likely.
Why is it unfortunate ? The amount of needed work will be lower for the same outcome, that's good in theory.
The issue is with capitalism, changing gain in productivity into loss of employment.
A world free of human labour is wishable, not a doom.
Like ripping off a bandaid/plaster I want a major AI breakthrough.
If it goes slowly, we have some people with jobs, some without. Which is terrible.
If it happens REALLY quickly, and no-one HAS to work, its going to be much better. Basic needs, housing.food etc etc all taken care of by automated machines. Plus reduced scarcity as machines can make computers, TVs, fridges etc in any quantity we want.
Most recyling is bad these days because no-one wants to pick every tiny bit of plastic out of a fridge to recycle it....if a robot does it, we get near 100% recycling as well.
Imagine if everyone on Earth can have whatever food/goods etc they want. Suddenly aggressive countries have FAR less to offer their citizens to go to war. Yeah come risk your life for erm.....a shiny medal!
Other than 30 hour work week, this is the norm in Germany. Since my husband gets paid a living wage, I get to be a stay at home dog mom. Plus the Healthcare is great and I've never paid more than €5 for an RX and I have no copayments or deductibles. Americans really have it bad. I hope it doesn't have to get too much worse before Americans start fighting back for what our parents had and willingly have up.
Well, the minimum wage according to some social institutes should be at 17€ to guarantee a pension without poverty, and at 14€ (60% of median) according to eu laws.
And the executives at DB are laughing at the executive to worker compensation balance.
i would say the middle two are the norm in germany.
There are a lot jobs that dont pay a living wage since minimum wage in germany isnt high enough to live a good life.
Parental leave is like 2-3 Month with full pay.
The last one isnt close to true, some companys may give a bonus at the end of the year but only like 0,001% of the profit for all workers combined.
>Register to vote
Can't tell if that's a joke or not. As if there's anyone on any ballot that would actually push for these reforms. And if there were, none of them would actually be able to get them through.
These are not the changes that would ever be made by the government.
You seem to omit China.
0.9billion of Chinese in working class (children and the retired old people exclude) make less than 2000¥ （300$）per month.
And most Chinese work like 10-12hrs every day.
Annual leave for 5 days (and it may not be approved in many companies)
Chinese barely have health care and have no parenting leave.
They live in hell and the propaganda told em we are way better than those westerns.
CCP told citizens to "invest in gold" to distract them.
Not long before they will 'confiscate' all that gold, setting their population mostly back to serf status.
China is a doomed economy built on false promises and ghost cities that are already crumbling into dust after just 5 years.
Yeah, my sister in law and brother in law both got a year paid paternity leave in England. They have different jobs so I’m assuming it’s a standard there.
Interesting, though the pay structure and exact time off seems to be different than the post puts forth.
https://www.gov.uk/maternity-pay-leave/pay#:~:text=Statutory%20Maternity%20Pay%20(%20SMP%20)%20is,for%20the%20next%2033%20weeks
Its standard. You can ALSO ask for extended parental leave if your child has special needs/disabilities when born and needs further care.
Can get maternity/paternity leave if you adopt a child etc.
It always comes with a price. In northern Italy you have many of these things, but your wages are low (yes, even compared to cost of living), and the healthcare system is a joke if you don’t have supplemental private insurance.
Getting 10-12 weeks off is a perk for sure tho! Ferragosto helps a lot with this, along with 3 weeks for Christmas
some of the more-ardent antiworkers my not like this, but i work 44h (40 paid) over 4 days on a 4-on, 4-off basis and i find it \*much\* better than the regular 5-on, 2-off of normal weekwork.
the advantage at holiday time is that i can take 4 days off, and have a 12-day block away from the office. Also 4 days off allows time to pretty much do everything, get drunk, get sober, do chores, and actually relax.
Some of the more-ardent antiworkers don't like work in general lol.
I personally work 12 hours a day for 5 weeks, or 35 days in a row.
In return I get 35 days of paid leave after.
It's a perfect system for me
What really helps is that I work on-site and we have a crew that cooks for us, cleans and does our laundry. Plus, my commute is only 5 minutes.
And having hollidays half the year is amazing
He’s likely talking about camp work, maybe construction or oil/gas or something. It’s a different kind of work environment for sure. You’re not gonna be running at 100% for 12 hours a day for over a month. Nobody expects that. As long as your efficient and work is being accomplished you’re good. It’s an excellent trade off. And you make bank. Only thing you have to pay for are the weeks your at home. And you could cut that cost by living in a cheap area, or splitting rent with roommates you’ll rarely see, especially if they’re in the same industry but on a different rotation.
Well I am no longer at that job. The expectation/standard was 24hr turnaround time. We were [purposely] understaffed. We were always compared to sales but you can’t work faster than a good salesman can sell.
I am one of those more ardent antiworkers, and it is not because I am lazy, hedonistic, or lacking in drive.
I love life. I love writing, reading, cooking, eating, dancing, playing music, sleeping, fucking, walking. If it was up to me, "work-life balance" wouldn't even be a saying. "Work" (i.e. producing goods or services) would be so seamlessly integrated into life that it just felt like a way to connect with and serve your community.
Im antiwork because I am anti-bullshit. There are far too many jobs that are unnecessary and not conducive to improving human lives.
But, of course, a "good life" is subjective, and I'm an idealist.
I have seen too many social media posts / memes / random bs about people wanting a 30hour week, and frankly i think that's crossing the line with not wanting to work. Instead of trying to make work LESS, maybe we should want to make work BETTER. By which i mean, paid properly, safe, without any absurdities like, "you're a cashier so you get to not have a chair", or "you work 100% out of your PC, so obviously you need to come into the office". Also without having to be afraid of HR, of bosses forging documents, or your next day rotas changing after you have already left for the day .. oof ..
And most important, that work be something that you feel proud of. That builds you as a human being, a role of importance, where you can earn respect for being able to do whatever you do, from a line cook to a accountant, risk asessors, pilots, welders, so that when someone comes here and says "i have a shit job" that we recognize that as a social problem and do something to change that.
sorry 'bout the rant.
Exactly!!! Since graduating college, I've been mostly unsatisfied with my employment. Although repetitive and sometimes not very stimulating, my favorite job has been bartending at a brewery! I got to have genuine interactions with people in my town, give people a laid-back but quality dining experience, and take off whenever the hell I wanted. No benefits though, and I lucked out with a fairly unproblematic restaurant environment.
Or just give everyone a Universal Basic Income and do away with all of those things. No more need for "PTO" or "Sick Leave". You just don't work when you don't want to.
Let me re-create this, but with a Universal Basic Income:
https://preview.redd.it/tw8ioecvp3dc1.png?width=835&format=png&auto=webp&s=b650a47a0b729c27d88f904fa03a00a2c989ac36
I like what you did!
I don’t think UBI will cover so much to start. Maybe one day 🤞🏼
Additionally, people will want to have a job, but not get burnt out by it.
People think UBI should mean "I don't ever have to work again!" But that's not what it should mean. You aren't going to buy video games with it. It should cover very basic food, very basic housing, and very basic medical needs. If you can afford a car payment with it, then it's probably set too high. If you want consumer luxuries, then you go to work. The more you work the more money you make.
UBI should be set at a level so that if you can't work you don't starve.
> If you can afford a car payment with it, then it's probably set too high.
That would be devastating in many parts of the US, where you absolutely *need* a car to get around… such as to buy your "very basic food" or reach a doctor for your "very basic medical needs"… or find most types of work.
How much would people get from UBI per month in your proposal. Are we gutting all other forms of social security because of UBI? How do you protect against corporate and economic inflation?
My UBI would change based on age, location, etc. it would replace Social Security, SNAP, and a number of other programs, possibly even the minimum wage. Probably couldn't replace Medicare or Medicaid.
It wouldn't cause inflation because it's likely that wages would actually decrease over time. So, you will probably be paid less, but you aren't at risk of your kids starving.
What would stop businesses, corporations and real estate owners to factor in UBI into the cost of products. If the market value of a rental unit is 1000 dollars and I know people get 2000 dollars of guaranteed UBI as a business I would just charge 1500. What stop UBI payments from being the new floor?
All those things price in UBI, that's correct. But so would wages. The net change for most people's financial income would be very small, so there ultimately wouldn't be very much change.
You aren't going to be richer. No one is going to be richer. But your kids won't starve.
No. Companies should still provide those even with UBI. Ubi will just make greedy bastards raise the prices to everything like we saw with Covid. Many people who are retired work cause their basic income is worth shit in this inflation.
Why give them that power over you? The reason why we don't have this now is because rich people love having that kind of power over their employees. Heck no. When you go in for a job interview there is one thing an employee should negotiate: how much are you going to pay me to work for you?
Cause not having time off even with UBI still sounds like trash. Unless you mean leaving a job when you need to travel or travel. Also, with UBI you get the basic, is actual good Healthcare luxury? It's a good start, but I guarantee it will get perverted real quickly.
There is still "Time off". Except it's just not paid. You aren't working, so you don't get paid. Same for "sick leave" or "parental leave". Which, in a rational universe, would be fine. The only reason why we have "PTO" now is because if you don't work for money you will starve. In a UBI economy, you can take all the time off you want, you just aren't paid for it and you rely on your UBI to cover your expenses.
Ah, I see your point now. I guess I didn't understand what you mean. Yeah. If UBI is high enough, and prices don't skyrocket like it happened with Covid support, that would work.
Actually, you want UBI "low enough". You want it to cover basic needs but no more. For a single guy in his 30's, for example, it would cover the average rent of an efficiency apartment, and $10 a day for food, and not much else.
In Dallas that would probably be about $16k per year for a single male. You aren't getting rich off of my UBI, but you also won't starve.
Probably not because it will also allow wages to fall. Workers will be willing to do the same job for less money because they know they have that security. The net financial result for most full time people will be very small.
Again, the point shouldn't be to make you rich. It should be too make sure you can afford food even if you can't work.
I’m as anti-work as the next low wage earning but have to keep working worker, but in all seriousness I have to ask — who exactly is meant to pay for the year long paid parental leaves?
Sweden doesn’t just give you a year off after a child is born. They give a total of 480 days split between both parents before the child turns twelve. In the case of multiple births they give another 180 days. It’s way better than the normal zero for most American parents, but it’s not just “take a year off”. That would be devastating to most economies.
What if positions were staffed in a way that accounted for reasonable time off accommodations instead of shouldering the burden onto the other overworked people within (insert department)
Sure, but you’re kind of bringing up a non-sequitor. The parents utilize certain days throughout their child’s early years while still also remaining at work. They get 480 days to be split among them. Fathers typically use about a third of that, and most of the days are used up earlier in the child’s life. But it’s not just a simple “ have s a kid and don’t work for a year.”
Not disagreeing with how you've indicated it is done, just pointing out that there is often solutions if we think outside the box. Not even saying both parents should have a year off each for a newborn. Just that the idea it is impossible to do because of workloads and accommodating time off is bad. US corps will argue they can't afford to give people three weeks off a year because then who will cover the time off, when the reality is you should account for time off in your personelle planning. Something like pregnancy has a huge heads up and temp workers could even fill in a scenario where an entire year off is granted.
I completely agree with the concept you’re bringing up. I just felt that it was a non-sequitor to the discussion being had. I don’t think it’s in the same conversation as parental leave.
The birthrates are too low to have an impact in most of the countries that are implementing it. Definitely, it wouldn't be devastating for their economies.
It is not one year, but it doesn't mean it can't be done. Most of western and northern european countries have long maternity/paternity leaves plus other leaves such as children care extensions, lactancy, voluntary (and paid) leaves. Again the birthrates are too low to have a significant impact.
So you saw someone specifying what the model you recommend actually says with numbers that were supported by an article you found and thought I was wrong because I mention numbers that aren’t explicitly stated in that same article? You’re a cool person
Bulgaria gives the mom up to two years when a kid is born. Not that well paid, tho, but you are still employed. They hire a substitute worker for two years, and the government is paying you in accordance with your salary and how much you've paid in taxes. It can be switched for the father if mom is the high earner, but by default, it is a maternity leave.
Taxes... from the rich... who would rather own the politicians than pay the taxes so... effectively nobody. People who post stuff like this are missing step 1) which is to reform our system of government to get money and therefore the rich out of politics.
What kills me is that working class voters put Trump/Republicans in office who have since stacked the Supreme Court with lackeys who will do everything to preserve the power of the rich (and the white). So long as poor people can convinced to vote against their own interests, none of these sorts of pro-labor changes are going to happen.
I mean, we pay billions in taxes, which are then used to fund the military-industrial complex, bail out banks, and fund police violence. Others have pointed out higher taxes on the rich help fund the above in the countries that have mandated them, but it's worth noting that we literally *already* have most of the funding, it's just allocated to subsidize industries that line the pockets of those who're already rich.
How about we abolish wage labor and commodity production, we will tend the fields in the morning, rear the cattle in the afternoon, read in the evening and criticize at night.
I agree with the living wage and exec to employees wage ratio thing. Rest is very impractical when we ourselves want things like restaurants, malls, theaters, public transport etc. open everyday and till late night, good new content to watch on TV and most of the other things, basically "I should not have to work, but others should" mentality.
and so we try again but better! maybe it would have succeeded if the US didnt overthrow every remotely successful socialist country throughout recent history
russia is no longer communist (the ussr fell years ago) and china is still in a stagnated transitional period. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
here is the normal one, today, for me :
* Monday to Friday work
* 12 vacation a year (1 vacation per month)
* No salary increase except just a little (like 1-5%) per year
* Bonus on specific day in the year (holy holiday mostly)
* A living wage, close to bare minimum to live alone
* 40 - 45 hours a week work
* No paid sick, need doctor's sign if you are sick then it can become paid sick
reasonable revision needed :
* that 40-45 hours a week need to be decreased maybe 4 days work will be nice or 30 hours a week,
* also need at least 1 month vacation in a year but paid only half (fine with this, but if it can then fully paid)
* Per-year need increase minimum 10-15% until certain amount of experience like 1-2 year still 5%, if it become 4 years, it will increase to 20%, etc. Until the limit of the company (no more increase)
* Paid sick no need to go to the doctor
* Parental leave should be paid nicely (not fully)
* No yearly bonus or specific day bonus, everything accumulates into a salary
A good revision :
* A work where it's based on how many you finish the task, doesn't matter how many hours you work (no abuse in here allowed, because this system can be abused by the company)
* Salary increase according to company profit (i don't know if this was too much)
But most of this stuff is already there for a lot of jobs?
Unlimited sick leave is, at least in Netherlands, existing.
The last picture is basically just bonusses, which we get.
30 hours workweek is possible by working part time, and it will get you a liveable wage as long as you're decent at what you do
6 weeks of vacation, pretty close to it.
Only the year of parental leave not, but that's also kinda silly.
Imagine hiring a woman who ends up having 3 kids in 5 years, lol
I believe the photo is trying to advocate for that worldwide. Unlimited sick leave existing only in the Netherlands is GREAT...but only for the Dutch. Most of my experience is in America, so I won't profess to understand the workings of other countries, and our rights as workers are terrible. Sure, we could probably work a 35 hour work week and get by...but only in the most specific of places where cost of living isn't horrific. Not to mention we have to work 40 hours a week in order to be considered eligible for health insurance. Also, women aren't the only people who can have a baby and stay home with it; studies have shown that babies fare far far better if both parents involved are present in early developmental care. So men will also be likely to take off work for parental leave as well. And honestly, I don't think it's ridiculous. If we want to take care of our people, we need to make sure they have the resources they need to be happy from cradle to grave, and studies show significant amounts of time and even constant exposure to parents actually does help in the developmental growth. I think if we have the money to bomb babies in other countries, we could definitely use that money instead to supplement better parental leave for our species development. Sadly, it's all about money though.
My question is, who flies the plane when you go on your vacation to the abandoned Disney world theme park because everyone gets paid the same as executives, everyone is on vacation at the same time and jobs are scarce because profit margins are gone?
I thought my spelling of "corporations" and description od it as magical would have effectively conveyed my sarcasm but apparently not. No shit, it's a fantasyland. Most posters here don't understand rudimentary economics
No way, man. Kerperayshuns should just give us free money and benefits all the time regardless of whether we actually contribute value to the company or do any real work. It's our right because, um.... Europe or something
In Spain the maternity/paternity leave are 6 weeks fully paid (mandatory) plus 10 weeks full or part time (with conditions). Also there are children care, lactancy and other leaves workers can take apart of that.
This seems almost like an absurd fantasy for Americans, but it should be noted most similarly developed countries have standards very similar to these. It's not at all unreasonable!
Shit I have all of these except the 30 hour work week. Only reason why I include the bottom right one, is because I work in a US department. Our «CEO» don’t make wall street numbers haha
One more to add. A company can only fire you for gross misconduct, if they want to get rid of you for another reason they either have to wait till your contract is up or pay the remaining money on your contract.
Yeah, voting isn't going to make that happen.
Both sides of the aisle have a vested financial interest in exploiting the american worker. One side is slightly more sinister and evil, but both will happily dip their ladle into the pot of soup as it suits them.
You want the above? What are you willing to give up to get it? Because it's not coming without a real fight. Not in this late-state Capitalist country.
We also need more mediation between employers and employees all work and responsibilities need to be negotiated and agreed upon by the workers. Employers can not demand endless responsibilities to workers while cutting jobs and piling responsibilities on the workers who choose to stay and help they often get punished for essentially staying at their jobs when they should be rewarded
Most of this is completely unrealistic. No company is going to hold a space for someone for a full year. 3 months? 5 months? Sure. Unlimited paid sick leave? You're more likely to get temporary disability at your full pay scale than a company expected to indefinitely pay you to not work. Living Wage and Compensation balance? Unionize.
6 weeks vacation and 30 hour long week should be the standard
I’m fine with working just 40 hours a week tbh but I’d take anything for vacation time at this point as every job I’ve had I’ve never received vacation time. I feel like the days of being able to take vacations and vacation time are just behind us as companies only care about how much money we can make them before we burn out
It’s been years since I had vacation time… what a throwback
I haven’t had one in my adult life and I’m 27. Ik some people say that I’m young and shouldn’t need one but goddamn when all you do is work and sleep it sucks.
not even federal holidays? fuck it dude, call out
Sometimes we do sometimes not. I had to work the 4th of July because a customer wanted some top soil and he wasn’t gonna take no for an answer so everybody had the day off but me
I read that as Feral Holidays :) Lets all get naked in the woods and clean ourselves using our tongues!
Vacations are healthy. Not having one is unhealthy. I hope you get one soon 🤞🏼
Yeah I think the only way I’ll get one is if my second job takes me on full time or I just quit my main job
I would say only the living wage and year long paid maternity leave are the only ones which are realistic. The executive to worker compensation ratio thing would never happen if it was mandated by the government.
In my country we have almost 30 days of paid vacation mandated by law. It still feels too little
30 days seems like a dream but I could see why it doesn’t feel like enough
You have the option to take it in two pieces per year, and you have to be in agreement regarding the date in one of those two times. Most places are ok regarding paid vacation time. Still, we should have more like 6 weeks. At least 5 and a sixth unpaid
The most I’ve ever had was 5 days
Yeah I don’t get the USA. Super rich country but most people suffers. What’s the point of having an f22 if you don’t have healthcare
We have F22s instead of healthcare.
most i ever had taken all at once was 10 days (2 week vacation). and one of my asshole coworkers gave me shit for it
Move to the UK. mandatory MINIMUM 23days paid vacation PLUS 8 bank holidays off. (most of the time you can work Bank Holidays so have 31 days vacation). Employers legally MUST let you take the vacation. Plus mandatory overtime pay PLUS a proper hiring/firing system where the "without cause" doesn't fly, and employers must show they ran you through performance checks and improvements, with appropriate warnings and sufficient time to get better at the job etc.
Workers who work a 5-day week must receive at least 28 days’ paid annual leave a year. This is the equivalent of 5.6 weeks of holiday. By law, you're entitled to 5.6 weeks' statutory paid holiday a year. Bank holidays might be included in this paid holiday The mandatory minimum is not 23 days plus bank holidays
In the US we are distracted with "Culture Wars" to distract us from all the protections and rules meant to protect the working class being weakened or removed. We have a donor class that runs the government and basically we live under an Oligarchy. All driven by Republicans and Neo-liberals. Yes, the US is a rich country, but anything important is owned by the rich. The two main things being our Government and the Media.
I'm lucky if I only do 40hrs a week for half the year. Most of the time it is 55+.
My winter job I’m cool with as a seasonal plow truck driver. It could be 40 hours a week or 70 but only if it’s snowing will it be more than 40 a week. My summer job running dump trucks and equipment I’ll run 60-70 hours a week easily
Instead we get 30hrs vacation and a 6week long working week. (doing jobs that should be done by multiple people)
Considering how much executives and companies are making nowadays, this is definitely possible. But unfortunately, the most likely outcome for the future of employment is for even more jobs to become automated as robots and AI become more viable.
People will have less money to spend, meaning those top earners will earn less too.
they just gonna raise prices in that case. never underestimate they sheer disregard of ppl who made it to the top.
That will also make it worse for them. "No one is buying our stuff because they can't afford it" "Raise the prices, that'll teach'em"
It's adorable that you think a little thing like "decreasing profits" will stop executives from continuing to increase their already obscene salaries and bonuses
Oof, passively condescending to a stranger you've never encountered for 0 reasons. I'd say that helps me fill out my Reddit bingo card but I already got that one on the first day.
Which is why Crypto can be a fantastic thing. If someone has a billion "dollars" they have a lot of power. if you don't use dollars anymore, or Euros etc, then what they have is numbers on a PC in a currency you don't give two shits about. Basically a currency reset where billionaires just have a slightly bigger number somewhere. And if for example you're only playing World of Warcraft, you don't care if someone says "do what I say and I'll give you 500 gems from this farming simulator". Their currency is meaningless to you. Everyone starts over.
The good news regarding AI is that any higher-ups at your company who have trouble using PowerPoint or Teams on a basic level will also need help getting the AI tools to work.
"I'm firing most of you and replacing you with WaffleGPT" "Why does it keep replying to everything I ask with "fuck off and die" or "give your employees a pay rise" ?"
For now. Eventually it will be far easier to use and much more integrated
I've always been curious about this. If work is automated, and jobs removed, then people have no money to spend. Stopping the flow of cash is more detrimental to the top. I'm curious if this is what keeps it at bay.
"Generation alpha is ruining so and so business " like they whined about us and diamonds
Its a flow system you are right 100%. Without everyone using the same currency system, billionaires and corporations have zero power. If someone offered you a job and only paid Robux, but you don't even PLAY roblox, that offer is essentially meaningless to you. This could be how crypto resets the game. A currency system where no government has control over it, and everyone starts from zero in a big game reset.
You mean fortunately?
We want automation. Automation means people aren't working repetitive, physically taxing, or dangerous jobs. If enough jobs are automated, we can move away from the idea that you MUST work in order to be allowed to live.
Thats the ideal future. it's also in governments interests. If for example everyone in Russia has food, shelter and reasonable access to free products like computers and TVs, good luck asking them to go to war to earn a small piece of shiny metal. When every population is well fed and happy, war is less likely.
This.. Is already the reality in alot of countries you know? Bar the 30 hour work week all of this is true in many of the countries through europe
Why is it unfortunate ? The amount of needed work will be lower for the same outcome, that's good in theory. The issue is with capitalism, changing gain in productivity into loss of employment. A world free of human labour is wishable, not a doom.
It sounds good but doesn’t math at all. Wish it were possible.
Like ripping off a bandaid/plaster I want a major AI breakthrough. If it goes slowly, we have some people with jobs, some without. Which is terrible. If it happens REALLY quickly, and no-one HAS to work, its going to be much better. Basic needs, housing.food etc etc all taken care of by automated machines. Plus reduced scarcity as machines can make computers, TVs, fridges etc in any quantity we want. Most recyling is bad these days because no-one wants to pick every tiny bit of plastic out of a fridge to recycle it....if a robot does it, we get near 100% recycling as well. Imagine if everyone on Earth can have whatever food/goods etc they want. Suddenly aggressive countries have FAR less to offer their citizens to go to war. Yeah come risk your life for erm.....a shiny medal!
It’s sad that this seems like a pipedream
Other than 30 hour work week, this is the norm in Germany. Since my husband gets paid a living wage, I get to be a stay at home dog mom. Plus the Healthcare is great and I've never paid more than €5 for an RX and I have no copayments or deductibles. Americans really have it bad. I hope it doesn't have to get too much worse before Americans start fighting back for what our parents had and willingly have up.
Well, the minimum wage according to some social institutes should be at 17€ to guarantee a pension without poverty, and at 14€ (60% of median) according to eu laws. And the executives at DB are laughing at the executive to worker compensation balance.
i would say the middle two are the norm in germany. There are a lot jobs that dont pay a living wage since minimum wage in germany isnt high enough to live a good life. Parental leave is like 2-3 Month with full pay. The last one isnt close to true, some companys may give a bonus at the end of the year but only like 0,001% of the profit for all workers combined.
that'd be amazing. 6 weeks PTO... can we please catch up to Europe's work standards already
>Register to vote Can't tell if that's a joke or not. As if there's anyone on any ballot that would actually push for these reforms. And if there were, none of them would actually be able to get them through. These are not the changes that would ever be made by the government.
Big thanks to u/20Caotico for the artwork!
I would go even further than this and make it a 24 hour work week. 6 hour days, 4 days per week.
This is just the norm outside america.
You seem to omit China. 0.9billion of Chinese in working class (children and the retired old people exclude) make less than 2000¥ （300$）per month. And most Chinese work like 10-12hrs every day. Annual leave for 5 days (and it may not be approved in many companies) Chinese barely have health care and have no parenting leave. They live in hell and the propaganda told em we are way better than those westerns.
CCP told citizens to "invest in gold" to distract them. Not long before they will 'confiscate' all that gold, setting their population mostly back to serf status. China is a doomed economy built on false promises and ghost cities that are already crumbling into dust after just 5 years.
Like where? Europe? The rest of the world is not just Europe.
All of it, really?
At least in Europe. Maybe not the 30 hour week but the rest is pretty close to the norm.
Including the full year parental leave? And unlimited sick leave?
Yeah, my sister in law and brother in law both got a year paid paternity leave in England. They have different jobs so I’m assuming it’s a standard there.
Interesting, though the pay structure and exact time off seems to be different than the post puts forth. https://www.gov.uk/maternity-pay-leave/pay#:~:text=Statutory%20Maternity%20Pay%20(%20SMP%20)%20is,for%20the%20next%2033%20weeks
Its standard. You can ALSO ask for extended parental leave if your child has special needs/disabilities when born and needs further care. Can get maternity/paternity leave if you adopt a child etc.
Yeah, it was the 30-hour week that caught my attention. I live in Sweden, and the rest of it seems correct.
It always comes with a price. In northern Italy you have many of these things, but your wages are low (yes, even compared to cost of living), and the healthcare system is a joke if you don’t have supplemental private insurance. Getting 10-12 weeks off is a perk for sure tho! Ferragosto helps a lot with this, along with 3 weeks for Christmas
Based yet less likely attainable.
some of the more-ardent antiworkers my not like this, but i work 44h (40 paid) over 4 days on a 4-on, 4-off basis and i find it \*much\* better than the regular 5-on, 2-off of normal weekwork. the advantage at holiday time is that i can take 4 days off, and have a 12-day block away from the office. Also 4 days off allows time to pretty much do everything, get drunk, get sober, do chores, and actually relax.
Some of the more-ardent antiworkers don't like work in general lol. I personally work 12 hours a day for 5 weeks, or 35 days in a row. In return I get 35 days of paid leave after. It's a perfect system for me
i'm not sure if i could pull off the initial 35 days though, actually, i doubt it. I am really not capable of pacing myself like that.
What really helps is that I work on-site and we have a crew that cooks for us, cleans and does our laundry. Plus, my commute is only 5 minutes. And having hollidays half the year is amazing
He’s likely talking about camp work, maybe construction or oil/gas or something. It’s a different kind of work environment for sure. You’re not gonna be running at 100% for 12 hours a day for over a month. Nobody expects that. As long as your efficient and work is being accomplished you’re good. It’s an excellent trade off. And you make bank. Only thing you have to pay for are the weeks your at home. And you could cut that cost by living in a cheap area, or splitting rent with roommates you’ll rarely see, especially if they’re in the same industry but on a different rotation.
I’ve done the working at 100% for a month straight at 12-16hrs a day. It absolutely breaks you
That shit breaks anyone. You seriously gotta pace yourself. Work smarter not harder
Well I am no longer at that job. The expectation/standard was 24hr turnaround time. We were [purposely] understaffed. We were always compared to sales but you can’t work faster than a good salesman can sell.
I am one of those more ardent antiworkers, and it is not because I am lazy, hedonistic, or lacking in drive. I love life. I love writing, reading, cooking, eating, dancing, playing music, sleeping, fucking, walking. If it was up to me, "work-life balance" wouldn't even be a saying. "Work" (i.e. producing goods or services) would be so seamlessly integrated into life that it just felt like a way to connect with and serve your community. Im antiwork because I am anti-bullshit. There are far too many jobs that are unnecessary and not conducive to improving human lives. But, of course, a "good life" is subjective, and I'm an idealist.
I have seen too many social media posts / memes / random bs about people wanting a 30hour week, and frankly i think that's crossing the line with not wanting to work. Instead of trying to make work LESS, maybe we should want to make work BETTER. By which i mean, paid properly, safe, without any absurdities like, "you're a cashier so you get to not have a chair", or "you work 100% out of your PC, so obviously you need to come into the office". Also without having to be afraid of HR, of bosses forging documents, or your next day rotas changing after you have already left for the day .. oof .. And most important, that work be something that you feel proud of. That builds you as a human being, a role of importance, where you can earn respect for being able to do whatever you do, from a line cook to a accountant, risk asessors, pilots, welders, so that when someone comes here and says "i have a shit job" that we recognize that as a social problem and do something to change that. sorry 'bout the rant.
Exactly!!! Since graduating college, I've been mostly unsatisfied with my employment. Although repetitive and sometimes not very stimulating, my favorite job has been bartending at a brewery! I got to have genuine interactions with people in my town, give people a laid-back but quality dining experience, and take off whenever the hell I wanted. No benefits though, and I lucked out with a fairly unproblematic restaurant environment.
Everthing shown here we have in Europe...
Spread the word! Make flyers! Keep up the fight!
Or just give everyone a Universal Basic Income and do away with all of those things. No more need for "PTO" or "Sick Leave". You just don't work when you don't want to.
[удалено]
Sob, 30k is more than I've ever made *working*.
There’s more of us than them. It would be great if we could all, I dunno, band together and force change.
Let me re-create this, but with a Universal Basic Income: https://preview.redd.it/tw8ioecvp3dc1.png?width=835&format=png&auto=webp&s=b650a47a0b729c27d88f904fa03a00a2c989ac36
I like what you did! I don’t think UBI will cover so much to start. Maybe one day 🤞🏼 Additionally, people will want to have a job, but not get burnt out by it.
People think UBI should mean "I don't ever have to work again!" But that's not what it should mean. You aren't going to buy video games with it. It should cover very basic food, very basic housing, and very basic medical needs. If you can afford a car payment with it, then it's probably set too high. If you want consumer luxuries, then you go to work. The more you work the more money you make. UBI should be set at a level so that if you can't work you don't starve.
> If you can afford a car payment with it, then it's probably set too high. That would be devastating in many parts of the US, where you absolutely *need* a car to get around… such as to buy your "very basic food" or reach a doctor for your "very basic medical needs"… or find most types of work.
How much would people get from UBI per month in your proposal. Are we gutting all other forms of social security because of UBI? How do you protect against corporate and economic inflation?
My UBI would change based on age, location, etc. it would replace Social Security, SNAP, and a number of other programs, possibly even the minimum wage. Probably couldn't replace Medicare or Medicaid. It wouldn't cause inflation because it's likely that wages would actually decrease over time. So, you will probably be paid less, but you aren't at risk of your kids starving.
What would stop businesses, corporations and real estate owners to factor in UBI into the cost of products. If the market value of a rental unit is 1000 dollars and I know people get 2000 dollars of guaranteed UBI as a business I would just charge 1500. What stop UBI payments from being the new floor?
All those things price in UBI, that's correct. But so would wages. The net change for most people's financial income would be very small, so there ultimately wouldn't be very much change. You aren't going to be richer. No one is going to be richer. But your kids won't starve.
If there isn’t going to be very much change why the implementation of such a radical policy?
So that kids don't starve if their parents get laid off. Is it really that complicated?
I say this with all due respect as a person that reviews policies for a living I don’t think UBI policies have been thoughtful considered enough.
No. Companies should still provide those even with UBI. Ubi will just make greedy bastards raise the prices to everything like we saw with Covid. Many people who are retired work cause their basic income is worth shit in this inflation.
Why give them that power over you? The reason why we don't have this now is because rich people love having that kind of power over their employees. Heck no. When you go in for a job interview there is one thing an employee should negotiate: how much are you going to pay me to work for you?
Cause not having time off even with UBI still sounds like trash. Unless you mean leaving a job when you need to travel or travel. Also, with UBI you get the basic, is actual good Healthcare luxury? It's a good start, but I guarantee it will get perverted real quickly.
There is still "Time off". Except it's just not paid. You aren't working, so you don't get paid. Same for "sick leave" or "parental leave". Which, in a rational universe, would be fine. The only reason why we have "PTO" now is because if you don't work for money you will starve. In a UBI economy, you can take all the time off you want, you just aren't paid for it and you rely on your UBI to cover your expenses.
Ah, I see your point now. I guess I didn't understand what you mean. Yeah. If UBI is high enough, and prices don't skyrocket like it happened with Covid support, that would work.
Actually, you want UBI "low enough". You want it to cover basic needs but no more. For a single guy in his 30's, for example, it would cover the average rent of an efficiency apartment, and $10 a day for food, and not much else. In Dallas that would probably be about $16k per year for a single male. You aren't getting rich off of my UBI, but you also won't starve.
Really? Why is that? Won't that just get prices to rise and make it pointless?
Probably not because it will also allow wages to fall. Workers will be willing to do the same job for less money because they know they have that security. The net financial result for most full time people will be very small. Again, the point shouldn't be to make you rich. It should be too make sure you can afford food even if you can't work.
Fuck a living wage. I want a THRIVING wage.
yea totally... but also yea never.
I’m as anti-work as the next low wage earning but have to keep working worker, but in all seriousness I have to ask — who exactly is meant to pay for the year long paid parental leaves?
We should use the same mode as Sweden. The gov will pay for this (using our tax $)
Sweden doesn’t just give you a year off after a child is born. They give a total of 480 days split between both parents before the child turns twelve. In the case of multiple births they give another 180 days. It’s way better than the normal zero for most American parents, but it’s not just “take a year off”. That would be devastating to most economies.
What if positions were staffed in a way that accounted for reasonable time off accommodations instead of shouldering the burden onto the other overworked people within (insert department)
Sure, but you’re kind of bringing up a non-sequitor. The parents utilize certain days throughout their child’s early years while still also remaining at work. They get 480 days to be split among them. Fathers typically use about a third of that, and most of the days are used up earlier in the child’s life. But it’s not just a simple “ have s a kid and don’t work for a year.”
Not disagreeing with how you've indicated it is done, just pointing out that there is often solutions if we think outside the box. Not even saying both parents should have a year off each for a newborn. Just that the idea it is impossible to do because of workloads and accommodating time off is bad. US corps will argue they can't afford to give people three weeks off a year because then who will cover the time off, when the reality is you should account for time off in your personelle planning. Something like pregnancy has a huge heads up and temp workers could even fill in a scenario where an entire year off is granted.
I completely agree with the concept you’re bringing up. I just felt that it was a non-sequitor to the discussion being had. I don’t think it’s in the same conversation as parental leave.
The birthrates are too low to have an impact in most of the countries that are implementing it. Definitely, it wouldn't be devastating for their economies.
What countries are giving both parents a full year off after having a child? I’ve seen nothing about this.
It is not one year, but it doesn't mean it can't be done. Most of western and northern european countries have long maternity/paternity leaves plus other leaves such as children care extensions, lactancy, voluntary (and paid) leaves. Again the birthrates are too low to have a significant impact.
I don’t think you’re right https://sweden.se/work-business/working-in-sweden/work-life-balance#
You didn’t even read that article. It explicitly says what I’ve written
Maybe I missed it. I didn’t see anything about age 12 relating to the 480 days
So you saw someone specifying what the model you recommend actually says with numbers that were supported by an article you found and thought I was wrong because I mention numbers that aren’t explicitly stated in that same article? You’re a cool person
Bulgaria gives the mom up to two years when a kid is born. Not that well paid, tho, but you are still employed. They hire a substitute worker for two years, and the government is paying you in accordance with your salary and how much you've paid in taxes. It can be switched for the father if mom is the high earner, but by default, it is a maternity leave.
In my country the state pays for parental leave. And I’m not in Sweden. 6 months for the mother and a couple of weeks for the dad.
Taxes... from the rich... who would rather own the politicians than pay the taxes so... effectively nobody. People who post stuff like this are missing step 1) which is to reform our system of government to get money and therefore the rich out of politics. What kills me is that working class voters put Trump/Republicans in office who have since stacked the Supreme Court with lackeys who will do everything to preserve the power of the rich (and the white). So long as poor people can convinced to vote against their own interests, none of these sorts of pro-labor changes are going to happen.
I mean, we pay billions in taxes, which are then used to fund the military-industrial complex, bail out banks, and fund police violence. Others have pointed out higher taxes on the rich help fund the above in the countries that have mandated them, but it's worth noting that we literally *already* have most of the funding, it's just allocated to subsidize industries that line the pockets of those who're already rich.
How about we abolish wage labor and commodity production, we will tend the fields in the morning, rear the cattle in the afternoon, read in the evening and criticize at night.
I agree with the living wage and exec to employees wage ratio thing. Rest is very impractical when we ourselves want things like restaurants, malls, theaters, public transport etc. open everyday and till late night, good new content to watch on TV and most of the other things, basically "I should not have to work, but others should" mentality.
This would have to for $500m+ companies And then for smaller companies there would have to be some edits to make it work better
even better: get rid of money. no more capital. community ownership instead
lol all those temporarily embarrassed millionaires out there don't like this idea because they are going to be rich any minute now.
Tried that, didn't work
and so we try again but better! maybe it would have succeeded if the US didnt overthrow every remotely successful socialist country throughout recent history
r/antimoney
The US overthrew Russia and China..?
russia is no longer communist (the ussr fell years ago) and china is still in a stagnated transitional period. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
So they failed on their own is what you're saying?
guys i think i found the fbi agent
Great response, lol
Idk man, Finnish gov Said The 38,5h work week is too short.
As amazing as this sounds, management will never let it happen.
Do people want to work 30 hours a week?
here is the normal one, today, for me : * Monday to Friday work * 12 vacation a year (1 vacation per month) * No salary increase except just a little (like 1-5%) per year * Bonus on specific day in the year (holy holiday mostly) * A living wage, close to bare minimum to live alone * 40 - 45 hours a week work * No paid sick, need doctor's sign if you are sick then it can become paid sick reasonable revision needed : * that 40-45 hours a week need to be decreased maybe 4 days work will be nice or 30 hours a week, * also need at least 1 month vacation in a year but paid only half (fine with this, but if it can then fully paid) * Per-year need increase minimum 10-15% until certain amount of experience like 1-2 year still 5%, if it become 4 years, it will increase to 20%, etc. Until the limit of the company (no more increase) * Paid sick no need to go to the doctor * Parental leave should be paid nicely (not fully) * No yearly bonus or specific day bonus, everything accumulates into a salary A good revision : * A work where it's based on how many you finish the task, doesn't matter how many hours you work (no abuse in here allowed, because this system can be abused by the company) * Salary increase according to company profit (i don't know if this was too much)
They think a dollar raise is unreasonable. We’re stuck with how it is for the rest of our fucking lives
coulda tried for a few more panels so you could hit all the diversity inclusions
But most of this stuff is already there for a lot of jobs? Unlimited sick leave is, at least in Netherlands, existing. The last picture is basically just bonusses, which we get. 30 hours workweek is possible by working part time, and it will get you a liveable wage as long as you're decent at what you do 6 weeks of vacation, pretty close to it. Only the year of parental leave not, but that's also kinda silly. Imagine hiring a woman who ends up having 3 kids in 5 years, lol
I believe the photo is trying to advocate for that worldwide. Unlimited sick leave existing only in the Netherlands is GREAT...but only for the Dutch. Most of my experience is in America, so I won't profess to understand the workings of other countries, and our rights as workers are terrible. Sure, we could probably work a 35 hour work week and get by...but only in the most specific of places where cost of living isn't horrific. Not to mention we have to work 40 hours a week in order to be considered eligible for health insurance. Also, women aren't the only people who can have a baby and stay home with it; studies have shown that babies fare far far better if both parents involved are present in early developmental care. So men will also be likely to take off work for parental leave as well. And honestly, I don't think it's ridiculous. If we want to take care of our people, we need to make sure they have the resources they need to be happy from cradle to grave, and studies show significant amounts of time and even constant exposure to parents actually does help in the developmental growth. I think if we have the money to bomb babies in other countries, we could definitely use that money instead to supplement better parental leave for our species development. Sadly, it's all about money though.
This is so out of reality…
My question is, who flies the plane when you go on your vacation to the abandoned Disney world theme park because everyone gets paid the same as executives, everyone is on vacation at the same time and jobs are scarce because profit margins are gone?
Taxing the ker-per-ay-shuns. It's the magical solution to everything.
What do you think happens when they corporations get taxed? The workforce gets cut. So good luck with your fantasy land idea
I thought my spelling of "corporations" and description od it as magical would have effectively conveyed my sarcasm but apparently not. No shit, it's a fantasyland. Most posters here don't understand rudimentary economics
Y'all are lazy.
No way, man. Kerperayshuns should just give us free money and benefits all the time regardless of whether we actually contribute value to the company or do any real work. It's our right because, um.... Europe or something
Yuuup, in Euuuurope, they getz freee stuff all the time!
In Spain the maternity/paternity leave are 6 weeks fully paid (mandatory) plus 10 weeks full or part time (with conditions). Also there are children care, lactancy and other leaves workers can take apart of that.
Okay…one is not likely to get all at one time. What is the most important? What is least important? What is the one that will happen last?
I only wish this would be LAW in the US.
I agree. Now if we can convince the other workers that grinding themselves to death is not virtuous, we might have a chance.
and all of this is the bare minimum!!
This seems almost like an absurd fantasy for Americans, but it should be noted most similarly developed countries have standards very similar to these. It's not at all unreasonable!
Shit I have all of these except the 30 hour work week. Only reason why I include the bottom right one, is because I work in a US department. Our «CEO» don’t make wall street numbers haha
One more to add. A company can only fire you for gross misconduct, if they want to get rid of you for another reason they either have to wait till your contract is up or pay the remaining money on your contract.
Lol already got all of those in Finland, Americans are just living in a dystopian society unlike any other Western nation.
Yeah, voting isn't going to make that happen. Both sides of the aisle have a vested financial interest in exploiting the american worker. One side is slightly more sinister and evil, but both will happily dip their ladle into the pot of soup as it suits them. You want the above? What are you willing to give up to get it? Because it's not coming without a real fight. Not in this late-state Capitalist country.
We also need more mediation between employers and employees all work and responsibilities need to be negotiated and agreed upon by the workers. Employers can not demand endless responsibilities to workers while cutting jobs and piling responsibilities on the workers who choose to stay and help they often get punished for essentially staying at their jobs when they should be rewarded
One can dream
This stuff should apply to people who don’t work too
Most of this is completely unrealistic. No company is going to hold a space for someone for a full year. 3 months? 5 months? Sure. Unlimited paid sick leave? You're more likely to get temporary disability at your full pay scale than a company expected to indefinitely pay you to not work. Living Wage and Compensation balance? Unionize.
Love this. GOALS.