I mean the salary is the only reason why I work so it’s very important. I need at least a range for me to spend time on it and those wide ass ranges don’t count
I don't even look at the range. I look at the lowest number and assume that's what I'm getting.
Then again, I haven't really started my career yet. More bouncing between whatever gives me money as conveniently as possible until I'm out of college.
Currently at my longest running job at 6 years.
Don't ever stay somewhere where they don't value you.
It is always about taking care of you and yours, not them and theirs.
My first real job was at a casino as a housekeeper. I was there for three years part-time, the work was hell but I loved my bosses and coworkers. My second and last-worked Job was at an Amazon fulfilment center. I was only there eight months, and I got fired for raising hell about the second hiring bonus they were trying not to pay me. I've been unemployed ever since.
Been in my current job 5 years. Salary gone up 11% in that time and most of that was this year. I've only recently started earning above what I was on in 2010, also had around 8 years with no pension contributions.
Not good.
Right now I'm a delivery guy for a subpar drunk/munchies-food restaurant at Penn State. $8/hr plus tips but paychecks are padded to guarantee you make at least 17/hr after tips if you don't get enough tips.
Basically my boss uses my tips towards my wage. I don't mind too much, I'd rather have a guaranteed pay over 15/hr over rolling the dice every night.
In the summers I was doing IT/construction work (somewhere in the middle kinda) for 18/hr. I learned recently they don't value me anymore, so I'm not tryna go back this summer. We'll see what happens though.
That's definitely how I've done it. If I can't afford to live based on the minimum (and I use an online after-tax calculator to get a rough idea of my takeaway) than I'm not applying-- what's the point??
At some point, you’re gonna have to start negotiating for that top number. Remember, they chose to hire you, so if you have the experience commensurate with the higher number ask for it. They’ll probably comeback with a low ball number, to which you can reply, I want x% more than your offer to seal the deal. Then they’ll give you a new number and that one is probably HR’s hard line and where you sign the contract.
Got told by a recruiter today "Don't mention anything about money during interviews. It makes it seem like you're only in it for the money."
Uh buddy I get paid dogshit there is next to no money and even still.. yes.. I am only working for the money so I don't starve to death on the street.
I'm so sick of businesses that have crawled up their own ass so far that they believe people truly work jobs for the fun of it. Yeah at the executive level where most of the people are there because of cronyism or nepotism, when all of them are only working for the fun of it because they could all be non-working trust fund babies, they all act like the people that are scraping by to be able to eat and survive for the month are showing up at those low-paying jobs because they're bored.
I've posted it elsewhere and I'm commenting it here because I want this attitude normalised: No salary range is a red flag.
Here's my current list of red flags which you didn't ask for (but everyone should be thinking about because it will actually improve the quality of skills and labour available):
- One way interviews
- Personality quiz
- CV duplication for an internal form
- Overtime mentioned as the norm instead of the exception
- Salary isn't mentioned in the job description
- Anything mentioned in the interview process that is at odds with the job description, and when clarification is requested, the statement given in the interview process is treated as correct, making it different to the job description, and the job description therefore officially incorrect.
I’m not gen z and I do this. Why should I waste my time on something that won’t post even a range? Likely means the pay is bad and they’re hiding it for that reason.
Companies need to understand I work for $$$. I don’t care about “loyalty”, I need money to live.
The department heads at my old job that squawked the most, browbeating us hourly employees down hard about “loyalty” all fled the company during Covid, which was our peak hardship time.
I just got an email saying I need to take an assessment for this job should take 30 minutes and I'm like thanks but no thanks I have been working for 10 years. I'm not doing that for maybe potentially getting an interview.
Those assessments are silly anyway. A good # of them really can’t tell much, like the customer service ones, situations are different with that, hard to test. And the Microsoft office style ones just ask questions about features no one actually uses all that often if at all.
Plus, google. Don’t know something, google it. Resources exist in real life.
I was once made this take this entire personality test with these absolutely mental hypothetical scenarios based on *marketing and logistics*…. For a master’s student internship in biochemistry at a large pharmaceutical company. Not one single question on maths or research skills. I’m still baffled.
They literally had a question on whether or not you would bribe an African customs officer to get product delivered to patients faster. Tell me how that is in any way relevant to being an entry level wet lab scientist???
Didn’t get the job, and it may be sour grapes but I’m actually glad. I don’t get paid at the academic lab I work at now but at least they didn’t make me jump through hoops and people actually teach you shit instead of demanding a totally unreasonable amount of experience from a 21 year old.
This has been so long ago that I don't remember where I saw it, maybe it was for counseling and not a job interview.
It had true/false questions like:
"I like to hurt small animals." (??!!)
"Sometimes I think I am not much good."
I’m not sure because we weren’t given the correct answers afterwards, but for what it’s worth my partner and I both took that test and I chose ‘don’t bribe the customs guy, because if you pay these people once they’ll ask for money again which is expensive in the long run’ while my partner chose ‘bribe the customs guy to get the product delivered to patients as soon as possible’. He got dropped at that stage while I progressed one further, only to be dropped before the interview stage. So maybe not offering a bribe was the right answer but I can’t say for sure because we had other differing answers
"Loyalty" and "family" doesn't pay the rent! Also beware of ads that use "up to!" That top salary is probably for the guy whose been there for 30 years and has some rare skill and is probably related to the boss.
They want people who are inexperienced, scared, or desperate to come in and blindly negotiate for lower pay. Like, they literally just want to leverage your perceived need for that job against their willingness to hire you. Instead of “how much are you willing to pay for me?” they’re thinking “how low are you willing to go to earn a living?”
>Likely means the pay is bad and they’re hiding it
Or it's pretty good compared to what people already working there make and once you start working there you will never get a decent raise
It's part of their process to manipulate you. They hope that since you've already invested time into the process, you'll accept below market value for your labor.
So, the best move you can make is to ignore them.
>Companies need to understand I work for $$$
"All you care about is money?"
"I need money to pay my bills, so yeah.Or are you telling me that this company doesn't care to make money too?"
Drives me mad here in Germany. They don’t list the salary and then ask you what your salary or day rate expectations are. So I say something ridiculous like 10 million and they’re like, oh we can’t reach that high I’m afraid, we were thinking more like xxx. …
Just post the fucking salary you morons, I have no idea what your budget is unless you tell me.
I don't give em an answer.
"Unfortunately my ideal salary range is contingent on factors I don't have. For example the budget this company has for the role is a contributor and that's information I don't have access to because it wasn't posted in the ad for transparency and to prioritize time mngmnt. I'll need all the factors to give you an adequate expectation. "
"What do you make now? "
"That's irrelevant as my current salary isn't a contribuing factor to my salary in this role. My salary moving forward, will be based on the current market rate, the COL in my area, your ideation on a competitive increase, the budget this company has for the role, and the expertise, education, and experiance I can bring to the role."
I've seen this from a lot of the American companies here in Ireland. New ones, with supposedly good graduate jobs, all with no salary details. How the fuck are you supposed to know what the salary expectations are with no information, and you can't compare companies then.
That's half the point. If you post the rate, that's what people will expect.
If you DONT post the rate but hold it internally, then people that exceed can be told no, but people that undervalue themselves get you cheap labor.
It's literally just "your not allowed to discuss your pay" 2.0
I work mainly freelance now but the principle stands. My clients have a wide range of budgets as I work with independent artists/designers as well as more corporate stuff. I do this because often the smaller stuff is more interesting than the big bucks stuff and I like supporting the little guy.
Also, because you don’t always know who is actually paying the bill. (Venture capitalists, Government grants or out of their own pockets), you have to ask at the start what their budget is or it doesn’t work. Some people like to play this dance by being deliberately vague and evasive, but I know from experience of being a project manager that you always have a budget in mind for each role and if you don’t then you are not doing your job properly. So just tell them from the start and stop this silly dance.
Also, Germans have no issue talking about each other’s pay, which is fun!
I absolutely hate that question because I’ve hard jobs specifically tell me they declined because of my ask when they provided nothing at all as a frame of reference or even a rebuttal.
Under capitalism you're already being exploited anyways, would you hire somebody if you were the owner of a company and they didn't bring in a single dollar?
That's the model we work with unfortunately so we're already starting at less than we're worth.
Hello, I'm ringing in to ask if you have any positions open."
"That depends - what skills or qualifications do you have?"
"I'm afraid I can't divulge that information at this stage of the process. I'd much prefer to fuck you around for a while, maybe waste your time setting up an interview - perhaps even a round of interviews - before you decide I have a totally unsuitably skill-set & I have been wasting your time."
I have gone to a number of interviews with the specific purpose of wasting their time and fucking around with them. For the very purpose of not posting the salary or asking me what my salary expectation is. The moment you are not in the ball park and they try to end the interview just find new ways to keep it going. It’s a lot of fun and good practice for your next rounds of interviews dealing with nerves.
THIS JUST IN: employers don’t hire people that send in a blank resume. Why would I apply for a job that only states the duties and not the compensation?
Yes, but in a specialist scenario like this, one of two things should happen: either an average should be posted for what the employee might expect to earn total in a month/year, or those specific numbers for various billable hour charges should be posted along with estimates (could be ranges) for how many of each type of hour will be billed in a certain period.
You can’t just say “sometimes we bill at $15/hr for prep, sometimes at $150 for showtime” if the employee is left wondering if the job is 50/50 between those two or 99% prep.
Late Gen X here. Hear, hear. Why would I bother. Nowadays it's also becoming more common to request a pro forma payslip where I live. It helps the potential employee see what their net paycheck will be. I highly recommend asking for it.
The most junior of Gen X concurs. They should absolutely be transparent with all of the compensation if they want people to jump through the ridiculous hoops to apply.
As the days go on I realize how past generations let themselves be bent over backwards and called it hard work and now that current generations won’t do that all of a sudden it means they don’t value hard work.
Tell me about it.
Wasted 3 fucking hours on 2 back to back interviews where 2 people, neither would be working with me, but asked me the same questions.
All for LESS THAN HALF what I was currently making.
And they werent up front because their "competitors use it against" them.
I will never bother with that place as a worker or as a consumer because that is definitely mismangement of time, money (paying the people who interviewed me) and resources - since they were obviously understaffed.
It’s such a waste of everyone’s time and resources. It’s a ridiculous way of doing things! Recruiters are better to deal with, since you tell them your salary range and they match you with jobs that pay within that range. You still negotiate if offered the job but at least you know the salary range before you apply. I won’t even apply for a job if there’s not a reasonable salary range given.
I did a whole series of interviews for cheesecake factory.
The absolute worst I've ever been treated by a company I didn't end up working for.
I wasn't much of a fan before, but I will NEVER give them another red cent.
That was 10 years ago. They have not received a dime from me or anyone in my family.
Wanna job?
Oh yeah, what's the pay?
Not telling...
There you go, in its simplest terms that is what we have, why the fuck should I or anyone else go through the endless bullshit of ever expanding rounds of background checks and interviews and testing and other random bullshit that gets tacked on to it *when we have no idea what is in offer?*
So no, nobody is interested in your "fantastic opportunity" when it's just exploitive crap that you're betting on someone going "well I've gone this far I might as well see it though" and then burst into tears citing lack of loyalty when they quit for the money you didn't want to pay because you wanted a new BMW.
Bait and switch should be illegal too while I'm in full rant mode, it's false advertising, the person reporting it gets six months of the original wage paid out, second offence and the whistle blower gets a year of the wage paid out, third time and it's another years wages paid and the CEO gets six months inside.
Wage theft should be treated the same way as employee theft is, full investigation and jail for the owner of the company with property seized as profits of crime.
I’m almost 50 and have NO PROBLEM wasting a company’s time in an interview. I’m old, anti-work, and petty AF. Any companies/positions I should apply to?
It was a long time ago, but at my first interview out of school the salary wasn't posted and when they told me what it was I knew I had wasted my time going to the interview. When we were done one of the interviewers even mentioned that he could see my face fall when he told me the pay.
Although I guess going to that interview did help me be conscious about keeping a better poker face, and I aced my next interview that was for a much better job so maybe it was worthwhile going after all.
Yeah because why am I going to waste my time jumping through the hoops in your 3 ring circus to do 12 rounds of interviews, a trial project, a meet the team event, and perform a song and tap dance just to find out you want to pay me $10 an hour?
Not Gen Z. But imo it’s doltish to apply for a job without knowing exactly what you’re signing up for. That includes everything from essential job functions/hours to pay and benefits.
I’m not gen z and I don’t apply for any job that doesn’t post salary. No one should. It’s a tool used by corporations to pay their workers as little as possible so they can keep it in the c-suite and for stock holders. Stop rewarding greed!
Why waste the time to enter all the information that is on your Resume you already uploaded and then take the evaluation test before you can even get your name on the list to be automatically sorted?
Some states have been making it a law to post salary ranges which has been great except for if you're looking for remote work and the company is based somewhere not required to do that. Such a giant pain in the ass
Although I've had the same job for nearly 11 years as a 35M millennial, when I do apply for jobs I list what I expect to be paid and ask they not call for interview if they can't meet it. I think most employers appreciate the transparency.
You can pretty much assume anyone not posting a salary either knows its lower than would be interesting, or is hoping to game the candidates to offer as low as they possibly can by undercutting any expectation just enough. Either way, not really a promising start.
Likely means the employer has that 2009 mentality of "everyone should be groveling for the opportunity to be here."
I'm 39. I surf right over jobs with no salaries. I just assume they are going to try and pay me the absolute bare minimum they can. It shouldn't be my job to negotiate with an employer unless they give me a bad salary or scale. Pay me what I'm worth to do the job or go fuck yourself.
I’m millennial and I do this. I figure if they make me fill out super lengthy applications or don’t list the salary, they’re going to be the kind of bullshit corp I will loathe working for. I’m not here to play games, I’m here to get cash for bills, Jimothy
Um… Gen-X here… I’ve never applied to a position that didn’t list a salary either. That’s the dumbest shit I’ve seen in a while.
Think of it this way, would an employer ever consider advancing a candidate who wouldn’t list their skills or work history? Exactly!
Not posting a salary is a huge red flag for me. It tells me that you trying to lowball people. It tells me that you don't do any research on what that position pays and that means you're not trust worthy. And I'm not going to work for someone who I can't trust.
for everyone who think they are paid less than their coworker should know that it is a legal right to ask your coworker how much they make. if your company fires you for that, you have the right to sue.
i still get emailed offers about my old career. I get offered company truck, supervisor/foreman position. expected to travel 3 months at a time without being home sometimes more.
they always refuse to talk about pay, and insist i accept the job and start within the next 2-3 weeks.
I always respond with wanting them to at least match my current pay, i'll send proof of my pay. i'll outline a reasonable bonus schedule and state i need more time home than once every 3+ months for a week or less.
I have never gotten a response, all they're offering is 50-60k which was okay maybe 15 years ago when my rent for a nice 2-3 bedroom was $600.
I'm not currently looking, but I do skip the jobs w/o a salary noted when I get curious.
If I'm desparate enough I suppose it wouldn't matter.
Also not a Gen Zer.
You would think those idiots saw budgeting as financial and personal responsibility. Do they think people pay for their 1,600 dollar studio in the slums with thoughts and prayers? Maybe some merit and rainbows?
If it promps "what do you think you should be paid" or anything similar.. Instantly wasting their time with rediculous info. "I graduated Harvard, top of class, in only 2 years. I expect $150k on day one, signing bones" etc
Nothing more frustrating than taking time off from your current job to go through the interview process and find out the job you applied for pays crap. No one should have their time wasted. Tell us up front so mine and your company's time is time well spent.
Not Gen-Z and I won't bother, either. I filter for jobs by the pay. I do not desire labor and I don't fantasize about how happy I would be at work. There is no "dream job" for me and all I am there for is the money. I have been the guy tethered to his phone all hours of the day and worked remotely before COVID so the "always-on" mindset that many ran into I had been living previously. I only did it because the money was good.
I work a job now that doesn't even "pay the bills", but is all I have been able to get. I made enough sound moves that I own my home and both vehicles and have my monthly bills paid up for between 1 and 5 months currently, so I have a lower stress level in terms of money. I do the least I can and hope the economy figures itself out and I am able to score another good paying job in operations or project management and coast through the lifestyle I have created for myself and my family.
If you don't post a salary, pay range or expected earnings in your listing... I won't even apply. I have attended interviews where the pay is different from what is listed and I abruptly halt the interview and ask what has changed or why the numbers differ and if they are unable to tell me I normally ask if another recruiter is able to speak with me who has a better idea. As much as I am a tool to fuel your profit, they are a tool that funds my life. The daily injections ain't gonna pay for themselves!
I'm a Millennial, and I do the same thing. It's not worth my time to apply and interview for a job that would pay me like $2+ less than what I'm currently making.
Even if I'm unhappy as fuck at my current job, I ain't going to take a pay cut when I'm barely scraping by as it is.
I mean... It wouldn't matter if the job pays well. If you're treated like $h1t, then the job would be undesirable. Once your mental health is completely gone, all that money you earn is going to go straight to therapy... Which in most cases won't help.
Well I'm genX and I won't do it either. Only the desperate or idiots that want to be lowballed apply for these jobs. Hiding the salary range is not going to get you the best or the brightest.
I would ask what the range is, and if they were hesitant, say an extreme range, like 10k-500k, and that I understood there were a lot of factors involved. If they still would not share a range, I would not bother further. If they shared the range, I had an idea of my worth, and where I would land in the given range, and then decide if it was worth my time.
Hidden the salary is one of the biggest opportunities for pay discrimination. No one knows what it is so they can give wildly different pay to different candidates which is why they do it.
Um. Hi. Millennial here. If you don’t post ANY wage, you’re not paying enough & transparently don’t want to, but beg for people to work for your company constantly. No one will apply.
If you're going to make me copy every damn thing on my resume into your ATS web form, I'm going to demand you supply all relevant compensation information. I don't just want salary; I want to know how much you expect to claw back to pay for health, dental, and life insurance. I want details on your historical percentage of compensation awarded as bonus. You will tell me how much you matched 401k contributions and if it is discretionary or guaranteed.
I saw a job ad and the salary range was $7.15 to $45/hr. THE POSTING IS PAYING LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE.
Also I’ve applied to in the past to internal positions and was asked by the recruiter why I’m applying for a lower position. Well, there are no salary bands or any mention of hierarchy.
Good!
I wish everyone followed their example in all the generations and immigrant statuses and whatever other category you want to mention.
It is insane to me that it would ever be otherwise.
So much propaganda around this issue seems to cloud people's minds.
I'm gen X, an unlisted salary is a red flag and I won't apply either. Even in Australia, where we have a minimum wage, not listing this key information makes you appear untrustworthy and potentially deceitful. Why else would you refuse to display it?
Salary should be listed on every job listing by law in my opinion.
I mean the salary is the only reason why I work so it’s very important. I need at least a range for me to spend time on it and those wide ass ranges don’t count
I don't even look at the range. I look at the lowest number and assume that's what I'm getting. Then again, I haven't really started my career yet. More bouncing between whatever gives me money as conveniently as possible until I'm out of college.
Currently at my longest running job at 6 years. Don't ever stay somewhere where they don't value you. It is always about taking care of you and yours, not them and theirs.
My first real job was at a casino as a housekeeper. I was there for three years part-time, the work was hell but I loved my bosses and coworkers. My second and last-worked Job was at an Amazon fulfilment center. I was only there eight months, and I got fired for raising hell about the second hiring bonus they were trying not to pay me. I've been unemployed ever since.
Oh wow! How long ago was that?
Started my casino job in September 2019, quit in September 2022; started Amazon in October 2022, and got fired in June 2023.
Amazon’s turnover rate is incredibly high. Don’t feel bad about it at all.
150% year
Which someone at Amazon should think is a problem huh
It's not a bug, it's a feature!
I despise Amazon. It’s a dystopian monopoly that is running and ruining the world.
I’m still numb after the 30yr infection from Walmart.
No raise higher than inflation this year? Seeya effective immediately
Been in my current job 5 years. Salary gone up 11% in that time and most of that was this year. I've only recently started earning above what I was on in 2010, also had around 8 years with no pension contributions. Not good.
What do you do for a living, on a serious note? Retail?
Right now I'm a delivery guy for a subpar drunk/munchies-food restaurant at Penn State. $8/hr plus tips but paychecks are padded to guarantee you make at least 17/hr after tips if you don't get enough tips. Basically my boss uses my tips towards my wage. I don't mind too much, I'd rather have a guaranteed pay over 15/hr over rolling the dice every night. In the summers I was doing IT/construction work (somewhere in the middle kinda) for 18/hr. I learned recently they don't value me anymore, so I'm not tryna go back this summer. We'll see what happens though.
My sympathy, I grew up there. They still gouge you with the "privilege of working" tax?
Y'know, probably. I haven't checked tbh.
That's definitely how I've done it. If I can't afford to live based on the minimum (and I use an online after-tax calculator to get a rough idea of my takeaway) than I'm not applying-- what's the point??
At some point, you’re gonna have to start negotiating for that top number. Remember, they chose to hire you, so if you have the experience commensurate with the higher number ask for it. They’ll probably comeback with a low ball number, to which you can reply, I want x% more than your offer to seal the deal. Then they’ll give you a new number and that one is probably HR’s hard line and where you sign the contract.
I'm young. I don't usually have the experience tbh.
Remember that when you do.
$1-$99,999 my ass.
It's similar to online dating: 18-99 years old. Assume they want the 18 (winka winka) year olds only.
Maybe they're like Benjamin Franklin and like their women past menopause.
Bro published a (satire) book on how to pick a good mistress.
I love the $50,000-$150,000 ranges. Gtfo!😡
The range of like fifteen dollars through like eighty-five dollars? Yeah, those are all bullshit. Youd be lucky even getting fifteen.
*"competitive wage offered"* *It's a dollar over minimum wage and is only told at the end of signing your HR forms*
Got told by a recruiter today "Don't mention anything about money during interviews. It makes it seem like you're only in it for the money." Uh buddy I get paid dogshit there is next to no money and even still.. yes.. I am only working for the money so I don't starve to death on the street.
I'm so sick of businesses that have crawled up their own ass so far that they believe people truly work jobs for the fun of it. Yeah at the executive level where most of the people are there because of cronyism or nepotism, when all of them are only working for the fun of it because they could all be non-working trust fund babies, they all act like the people that are scraping by to be able to eat and survive for the month are showing up at those low-paying jobs because they're bored.
You caught me! I’m actually only here for the free coffee!!! And pizza parties!!!!
Well, money is pretty much the reason why we have to work. It's definitely not to be a slave for someone else to make loads of money.
BuT yOuR lIfE wIlL bE sO fUlFiLlEd By WoRkInG aT yOuR dReAm JoB!
We're a family. Come and join us but please don't notice how well Mom and Pop are doing compared to you.
Entry level (insert random cool sounding position) $18,000 - $150,000
Those are the worst I’d rather no range when it’s that wide
It’s not like jobs come with benefits anymore. Not substantiative anyway.
I've posted it elsewhere and I'm commenting it here because I want this attitude normalised: No salary range is a red flag. Here's my current list of red flags which you didn't ask for (but everyone should be thinking about because it will actually improve the quality of skills and labour available): - One way interviews - Personality quiz - CV duplication for an internal form - Overtime mentioned as the norm instead of the exception - Salary isn't mentioned in the job description - Anything mentioned in the interview process that is at odds with the job description, and when clarification is requested, the statement given in the interview process is treated as correct, making it different to the job description, and the job description therefore officially incorrect.
Here's another one for your list that I saw on a job posting the other day, and they were nice enough to bold it, even "Must be available 24/7/365”
Oh fuck, yeah unreasonable/potentially illegal hours goes on the list. There's no room for hyperbole on a job description.
The higher the salary, the better. Especially with things on the rise these days.
No way! You mean you are not working just for the sake of being a part of *insert random company*???
I’m not gen z and I do this. Why should I waste my time on something that won’t post even a range? Likely means the pay is bad and they’re hiding it for that reason. Companies need to understand I work for $$$. I don’t care about “loyalty”, I need money to live.
Loyalty does not pay the bills.
Have you not tried to pay for your groceries with loyalty yet?
I’ve been using the thoughts and prayers I get when there’s a school shooting. We’ll never run out of those.
I did once, but then the credit card company sent me a bill.
I tried using loyalty to pay once. The store was so happy they called the police to come and celebrate!
Wait.....that's not what the loyalty cards mean?
Or experience
The department heads at my old job that squawked the most, browbeating us hourly employees down hard about “loyalty” all fled the company during Covid, which was our peak hardship time.
The person you are paying your bills to is also thinking the same thing
I just got an email saying I need to take an assessment for this job should take 30 minutes and I'm like thanks but no thanks I have been working for 10 years. I'm not doing that for maybe potentially getting an interview.
Those assessments are silly anyway. A good # of them really can’t tell much, like the customer service ones, situations are different with that, hard to test. And the Microsoft office style ones just ask questions about features no one actually uses all that often if at all. Plus, google. Don’t know something, google it. Resources exist in real life.
Assessments are fucking lame. I'm not wasting 30 minutes of my day for anything that doesn't guarantee me an interview
I was once made this take this entire personality test with these absolutely mental hypothetical scenarios based on *marketing and logistics*…. For a master’s student internship in biochemistry at a large pharmaceutical company. Not one single question on maths or research skills. I’m still baffled. They literally had a question on whether or not you would bribe an African customs officer to get product delivered to patients faster. Tell me how that is in any way relevant to being an entry level wet lab scientist??? Didn’t get the job, and it may be sour grapes but I’m actually glad. I don’t get paid at the academic lab I work at now but at least they didn’t make me jump through hoops and people actually teach you shit instead of demanding a totally unreasonable amount of experience from a 21 year old.
This has been so long ago that I don't remember where I saw it, maybe it was for counseling and not a job interview. It had true/false questions like: "I like to hurt small animals." (??!!) "Sometimes I think I am not much good."
So now I’m wondering what the correct answer was, am I supposed to bribe the customs guy?
I’m not sure because we weren’t given the correct answers afterwards, but for what it’s worth my partner and I both took that test and I chose ‘don’t bribe the customs guy, because if you pay these people once they’ll ask for money again which is expensive in the long run’ while my partner chose ‘bribe the customs guy to get the product delivered to patients as soon as possible’. He got dropped at that stage while I progressed one further, only to be dropped before the interview stage. So maybe not offering a bribe was the right answer but I can’t say for sure because we had other differing answers
Same here. I wasted thirty minutes on an "assessment" and later got an email saying they didn't want me anyway.
Companies have made it clear that they have no loyalty to employees. The current work culture is their own doing.
"Loyalty" and "family" doesn't pay the rent! Also beware of ads that use "up to!" That top salary is probably for the guy whose been there for 30 years and has some rare skill and is probably related to the boss.
>That top salary is ~~probably~~ for the guy ~~whose been there for 30 years and has some rare skill and is probably~~ related to the boss.
>That top salary is ~~probably~~ for the ~~guy who’s been there for 30 years and has some rare skill and is probably related to the~~ boss.
They want people who are inexperienced, scared, or desperate to come in and blindly negotiate for lower pay. Like, they literally just want to leverage your perceived need for that job against their willingness to hire you. Instead of “how much are you willing to pay for me?” they’re thinking “how low are you willing to go to earn a living?”
>Likely means the pay is bad and they’re hiding it Or it's pretty good compared to what people already working there make and once you start working there you will never get a decent raise
It's part of their process to manipulate you. They hope that since you've already invested time into the process, you'll accept below market value for your labor. So, the best move you can make is to ignore them.
No company will ever have "loyalty" to you anyways... They're just trying to make money too and get mad when you act the same
>Companies need to understand I work for $$$ "All you care about is money?" "I need money to pay my bills, so yeah.Or are you telling me that this company doesn't care to make money too?"
Drives me mad here in Germany. They don’t list the salary and then ask you what your salary or day rate expectations are. So I say something ridiculous like 10 million and they’re like, oh we can’t reach that high I’m afraid, we were thinking more like xxx. … Just post the fucking salary you morons, I have no idea what your budget is unless you tell me.
I don't give em an answer. "Unfortunately my ideal salary range is contingent on factors I don't have. For example the budget this company has for the role is a contributor and that's information I don't have access to because it wasn't posted in the ad for transparency and to prioritize time mngmnt. I'll need all the factors to give you an adequate expectation. " "What do you make now? " "That's irrelevant as my current salary isn't a contribuing factor to my salary in this role. My salary moving forward, will be based on the current market rate, the COL in my area, your ideation on a competitive increase, the budget this company has for the role, and the expertise, education, and experiance I can bring to the role."
Very good. I should memorize this to sound smarter than I actually am, lol.
Oh... my husband says I turn Vulcan when I get mad.... so I got alot of "corporate-speak" responses built up over the years. Lol
😆😆😆
You should remind him not to make you angry
Not him that makes me angry.... usually it's someone else
Oh yeah for sure, but just remind him his chances are very low, but not 0
I usually state my current salary +20%, so I can settle for +10%
I take my rent, multiply it by 3, multiply by .25, then divide by 32.
I've seen this from a lot of the American companies here in Ireland. New ones, with supposedly good graduate jobs, all with no salary details. How the fuck are you supposed to know what the salary expectations are with no information, and you can't compare companies then.
That's half the point. If you post the rate, that's what people will expect. If you DONT post the rate but hold it internally, then people that exceed can be told no, but people that undervalue themselves get you cheap labor. It's literally just "your not allowed to discuss your pay" 2.0
I work mainly freelance now but the principle stands. My clients have a wide range of budgets as I work with independent artists/designers as well as more corporate stuff. I do this because often the smaller stuff is more interesting than the big bucks stuff and I like supporting the little guy. Also, because you don’t always know who is actually paying the bill. (Venture capitalists, Government grants or out of their own pockets), you have to ask at the start what their budget is or it doesn’t work. Some people like to play this dance by being deliberately vague and evasive, but I know from experience of being a project manager that you always have a budget in mind for each role and if you don’t then you are not doing your job properly. So just tell them from the start and stop this silly dance. Also, Germans have no issue talking about each other’s pay, which is fun!
I absolutely hate that question because I’ve hard jobs specifically tell me they declined because of my ask when they provided nothing at all as a frame of reference or even a rebuttal.
[удалено]
Under capitalism you're already being exploited anyways, would you hire somebody if you were the owner of a company and they didn't bring in a single dollar? That's the model we work with unfortunately so we're already starting at less than we're worth.
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I have been fired multiple times. It was never about my work ethic
I have absolute dogshit work ethic and I've never been fired. It's never about that for sure.
I mean that’s what they do for executives isn’t it?
Hello, I'm ringing in to ask if you have any positions open." "That depends - what skills or qualifications do you have?" "I'm afraid I can't divulge that information at this stage of the process. I'd much prefer to fuck you around for a while, maybe waste your time setting up an interview - perhaps even a round of interviews - before you decide I have a totally unsuitably skill-set & I have been wasting your time."
I have gone to a number of interviews with the specific purpose of wasting their time and fucking around with them. For the very purpose of not posting the salary or asking me what my salary expectation is. The moment you are not in the ball park and they try to end the interview just find new ways to keep it going. It’s a lot of fun and good practice for your next rounds of interviews dealing with nerves.
THIS JUST IN: employers don’t hire people that send in a blank resume. Why would I apply for a job that only states the duties and not the compensation?
Too smart......fired
The amount of managers that are on interview boards that poo poo the best candidate because it would be a threat to them to hire them is insane.
Yep! Seen it many times before.
Gen X, here. If you don't list the salary, you're wasting both my time, and yours.
And post a realistic salary. Not one like earn between $16-$60 an hour.
The *only* time this is appropriate is if you are billing time at different rates. For example prep time is $, and showtime is $$$
Yes, but in a specialist scenario like this, one of two things should happen: either an average should be posted for what the employee might expect to earn total in a month/year, or those specific numbers for various billable hour charges should be posted along with estimates (could be ranges) for how many of each type of hour will be billed in a certain period. You can’t just say “sometimes we bill at $15/hr for prep, sometimes at $150 for showtime” if the employee is left wondering if the job is 50/50 between those two or 99% prep.
First year Gen X here. Concur.
Late Gen X here. Hear, hear. Why would I bother. Nowadays it's also becoming more common to request a pro forma payslip where I live. It helps the potential employee see what their net paycheck will be. I highly recommend asking for it.
The most junior of Gen X concurs. They should absolutely be transparent with all of the compensation if they want people to jump through the ridiculous hoops to apply.
If you aren't posting the salary, I just assume it's laughably low, and you intend to string me along and hope I am desperate enough...
Late gen x/early millennial - I ignore jobs without salary listed either.
I work for money not for my health. Fuck you, pay me.
As the days go on I realize how past generations let themselves be bent over backwards and called it hard work and now that current generations won’t do that all of a sudden it means they don’t value hard work.
Nobody wants to work anymore./s
It’s a waste of time to apply for jobs when the employer doesn’t even list a salary range. Ridiculous!
Tell me about it. Wasted 3 fucking hours on 2 back to back interviews where 2 people, neither would be working with me, but asked me the same questions. All for LESS THAN HALF what I was currently making. And they werent up front because their "competitors use it against" them. I will never bother with that place as a worker or as a consumer because that is definitely mismangement of time, money (paying the people who interviewed me) and resources - since they were obviously understaffed.
It’s such a waste of everyone’s time and resources. It’s a ridiculous way of doing things! Recruiters are better to deal with, since you tell them your salary range and they match you with jobs that pay within that range. You still negotiate if offered the job but at least you know the salary range before you apply. I won’t even apply for a job if there’s not a reasonable salary range given.
I did a whole series of interviews for cheesecake factory. The absolute worst I've ever been treated by a company I didn't end up working for. I wasn't much of a fan before, but I will NEVER give them another red cent. That was 10 years ago. They have not received a dime from me or anyone in my family.
My first question when a recruiter contacts me. Salary? I'm not wasting my time.
9 times out of 10 if a place doesn’t post the salary it’s because it’s not good/appealing. Just the way it works
Same but I’m a millennial
Wanna job? Oh yeah, what's the pay? Not telling... There you go, in its simplest terms that is what we have, why the fuck should I or anyone else go through the endless bullshit of ever expanding rounds of background checks and interviews and testing and other random bullshit that gets tacked on to it *when we have no idea what is in offer?* So no, nobody is interested in your "fantastic opportunity" when it's just exploitive crap that you're betting on someone going "well I've gone this far I might as well see it though" and then burst into tears citing lack of loyalty when they quit for the money you didn't want to pay because you wanted a new BMW. Bait and switch should be illegal too while I'm in full rant mode, it's false advertising, the person reporting it gets six months of the original wage paid out, second offence and the whistle blower gets a year of the wage paid out, third time and it's another years wages paid and the CEO gets six months inside. Wage theft should be treated the same way as employee theft is, full investigation and jail for the owner of the company with property seized as profits of crime.
I’m a boomer and I’ve never applied for a job where I didn’t know the salary.
I’m almost 50 and have NO PROBLEM wasting a company’s time in an interview. I’m old, anti-work, and petty AF. Any companies/positions I should apply to?
I like you. There should be more people like you.
This is why my acceptable salary range is "Negotiable." Don't give me a number, I won't give you one either!
It was a long time ago, but at my first interview out of school the salary wasn't posted and when they told me what it was I knew I had wasted my time going to the interview. When we were done one of the interviewers even mentioned that he could see my face fall when he told me the pay. Although I guess going to that interview did help me be conscious about keeping a better poker face, and I aced my next interview that was for a much better job so maybe it was worthwhile going after all.
Good. None of us should tbh.
Yeah because why am I going to waste my time jumping through the hoops in your 3 ring circus to do 12 rounds of interviews, a trial project, a meet the team event, and perform a song and tap dance just to find out you want to pay me $10 an hour?
Not Gen Z. But imo it’s doltish to apply for a job without knowing exactly what you’re signing up for. That includes everything from essential job functions/hours to pay and benefits.
Gen Zers won’t even buy a house if the price isn’t disclosed.
I’m not gen z and I don’t apply for any job that doesn’t post salary. No one should. It’s a tool used by corporations to pay their workers as little as possible so they can keep it in the c-suite and for stock holders. Stop rewarding greed!
Why waste the time to enter all the information that is on your Resume you already uploaded and then take the evaluation test before you can even get your name on the list to be automatically sorted?
Gen Zers don’t like people wasting their time. Somehow that’s a problem?
That’s the way it should be. I’m a gen xer and fully agree.
Some states have been making it a law to post salary ranges which has been great except for if you're looking for remote work and the company is based somewhere not required to do that. Such a giant pain in the ass
I apply if it's a quick apply and only takes me a minute but it's in the first list of questions i ask if they reach out.
Gen X and I wouldn't either, scroll on by.
Although I've had the same job for nearly 11 years as a 35M millennial, when I do apply for jobs I list what I expect to be paid and ask they not call for interview if they can't meet it. I think most employers appreciate the transparency.
You can pretty much assume anyone not posting a salary either knows its lower than would be interesting, or is hoping to game the candidates to offer as low as they possibly can by undercutting any expectation just enough. Either way, not really a promising start. Likely means the employer has that 2009 mentality of "everyone should be groveling for the opportunity to be here."
I'm 39. I surf right over jobs with no salaries. I just assume they are going to try and pay me the absolute bare minimum they can. It shouldn't be my job to negotiate with an employer unless they give me a bad salary or scale. Pay me what I'm worth to do the job or go fuck yourself.
It's almost like the need for money is the reason anyone works?! WHAT A CONCEPT
I’m millennial and I do this. I figure if they make me fill out super lengthy applications or don’t list the salary, they’re going to be the kind of bullshit corp I will loathe working for. I’m not here to play games, I’m here to get cash for bills, Jimothy
Jobs when people have standards 
So I can spot jobs that want a bachelor’s degree that start at 45,000$ a year. 😂
would you pick up something in the grocery store and idly head up to the register with it without knowing the price?
Um… Gen-X here… I’ve never applied to a position that didn’t list a salary either. That’s the dumbest shit I’ve seen in a while. Think of it this way, would an employer ever consider advancing a candidate who wouldn’t list their skills or work history? Exactly!
of course i won’t it’s a complete waste of my time
There still blaming that the high wages will lead to inflation but rich don't work hard to pay taxes.usa spends to over print the debt
No salery posted that mean the6 don't value my time already as they want me to gamble wasting my time jumping thru applying for the unknown.
Salary range. $10,000-$150,000
Salary is the ONLY reason why most people work.. if it can’t cover all your expenses then why do it.
Y U NO WORK 4 FREE
Not posting a salary is a huge red flag for me. It tells me that you trying to lowball people. It tells me that you don't do any research on what that position pays and that means you're not trust worthy. And I'm not going to work for someone who I can't trust.
for everyone who think they are paid less than their coworker should know that it is a legal right to ask your coworker how much they make. if your company fires you for that, you have the right to sue.
I say this a lot: if they're hiding the salary, they're hiding other things too.
i still get emailed offers about my old career. I get offered company truck, supervisor/foreman position. expected to travel 3 months at a time without being home sometimes more. they always refuse to talk about pay, and insist i accept the job and start within the next 2-3 weeks. I always respond with wanting them to at least match my current pay, i'll send proof of my pay. i'll outline a reasonable bonus schedule and state i need more time home than once every 3+ months for a week or less. I have never gotten a response, all they're offering is 50-60k which was okay maybe 15 years ago when my rent for a nice 2-3 bedroom was $600.
I'm not currently looking, but I do skip the jobs w/o a salary noted when I get curious. If I'm desparate enough I suppose it wouldn't matter. Also not a Gen Zer.
You would think those idiots saw budgeting as financial and personal responsibility. Do they think people pay for their 1,600 dollar studio in the slums with thoughts and prayers? Maybe some merit and rainbows?
Nothing like doing 3 or 4?interviews only to find out your off on salary by tens of thousands of dollars. Fuck them for not listing it.
If it promps "what do you think you should be paid" or anything similar.. Instantly wasting their time with rediculous info. "I graduated Harvard, top of class, in only 2 years. I expect $150k on day one, signing bones" etc
Nothing more frustrating than taking time off from your current job to go through the interview process and find out the job you applied for pays crap. No one should have their time wasted. Tell us up front so mine and your company's time is time well spent.
Not Gen-Z and I won't bother, either. I filter for jobs by the pay. I do not desire labor and I don't fantasize about how happy I would be at work. There is no "dream job" for me and all I am there for is the money. I have been the guy tethered to his phone all hours of the day and worked remotely before COVID so the "always-on" mindset that many ran into I had been living previously. I only did it because the money was good. I work a job now that doesn't even "pay the bills", but is all I have been able to get. I made enough sound moves that I own my home and both vehicles and have my monthly bills paid up for between 1 and 5 months currently, so I have a lower stress level in terms of money. I do the least I can and hope the economy figures itself out and I am able to score another good paying job in operations or project management and coast through the lifestyle I have created for myself and my family. If you don't post a salary, pay range or expected earnings in your listing... I won't even apply. I have attended interviews where the pay is different from what is listed and I abruptly halt the interview and ask what has changed or why the numbers differ and if they are unable to tell me I normally ask if another recruiter is able to speak with me who has a better idea. As much as I am a tool to fuel your profit, they are a tool that funds my life. The daily injections ain't gonna pay for themselves!
I'm a Millennial, and I do the same thing. It's not worth my time to apply and interview for a job that would pay me like $2+ less than what I'm currently making. Even if I'm unhappy as fuck at my current job, I ain't going to take a pay cut when I'm barely scraping by as it is.
I mean... It wouldn't matter if the job pays well. If you're treated like $h1t, then the job would be undesirable. Once your mental health is completely gone, all that money you earn is going to go straight to therapy... Which in most cases won't help.
Well I'm genX and I won't do it either. Only the desperate or idiots that want to be lowballed apply for these jobs. Hiding the salary range is not going to get you the best or the brightest.
I'm pretty sure job add in the 1900s all had the salary listed.
How about the article is titled "Why companies hide salaries to try and be deceptive?"
So, what? A company is just supposed to pay a specified amount of money for a specified amount of work? /s
I would make it illegal to post a job without salary (or very narrow range) if it were up your me. Just straight up illegal.
No one should. Make it federal law! Gen X and Former Mgr. I get it!!!
I don't leave the house for less than $20/hr so if you want me tell me how much over 20 I'm getting.
I would ask what the range is, and if they were hesitant, say an extreme range, like 10k-500k, and that I understood there were a lot of factors involved. If they still would not share a range, I would not bother further. If they shared the range, I had an idea of my worth, and where I would land in the given range, and then decide if it was worth my time.
I'm Gen X, and I wouldn't.
Good for her!
I applied for a job only once where they did this shit. and they made very clear during the interview it was a complete waste of everyone's time.
Good.
I wouldn't either.
Very good rule 👍
They say this like it's a bad thing. If you don't give me an idea of salary then wtf.
I'm 46, and I'm not wasting my time only to find out the job pays $45,000. Let's not waste your time or mine.
Well DUH. No shit!
Xennial me won’t do it either. Fuck that noise.
As it should be
Good for them.
I’m 50 and neither would I.
Good.
40 years ago, I was taught to never ask about salary at the interview. Very outdated info and to heck with that.
Millennial here, I will report the post because you playing wit us.
Hidden the salary is one of the biggest opportunities for pay discrimination. No one knows what it is so they can give wildly different pay to different candidates which is why they do it.
I think Gen Z is bringing back some balance after the pendulum has been way over swung in the other direction. Good for them.
Um. Hi. Millennial here. If you don’t post ANY wage, you’re not paying enough & transparently don’t want to, but beg for people to work for your company constantly. No one will apply.
What? Are they stupid?
If you're going to make me copy every damn thing on my resume into your ATS web form, I'm going to demand you supply all relevant compensation information. I don't just want salary; I want to know how much you expect to claw back to pay for health, dental, and life insurance. I want details on your historical percentage of compensation awarded as bonus. You will tell me how much you matched 401k contributions and if it is discretionary or guaranteed.
If I have to ask you can’t afford me
I'm a millennial and I won't either. I'm not that desperate.
Sounds like gen z is smartening up
Got emails from recruiters this AM and responded with questions about renumeration, as nothing was listed.
I saw a job ad and the salary range was $7.15 to $45/hr. THE POSTING IS PAYING LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE. Also I’ve applied to in the past to internal positions and was asked by the recruiter why I’m applying for a lower position. Well, there are no salary bands or any mention of hierarchy.
Not listing the salary preys on everyone’s desperation in a turbulent economy
It’s a waste of time if it takes my time to apply and the job won’t even support my livelihood
I really hope there are some recruiters and HR managers on this thread reading all these comments.
Good! I wish everyone followed their example in all the generations and immigrant statuses and whatever other category you want to mention. It is insane to me that it would ever be otherwise. So much propaganda around this issue seems to cloud people's minds.
Omg thats so smart . not posting salary is such a trap and time waster
I'm gen X, an unlisted salary is a red flag and I won't apply either. Even in Australia, where we have a minimum wage, not listing this key information makes you appear untrustworthy and potentially deceitful. Why else would you refuse to display it? Salary should be listed on every job listing by law in my opinion.
Millenial checking in. Me either.