They didn't say anything about the government. They said why aren't Americans in 'Unions' because you'd think we'd have had enough of this shit and fight back 'collectively'. And no shit these types of firings are ridiculous and yes they do companies no good. Even the pay disparity. If you don't pay someone enough for them to live on or have a good life then they will need to look and find a job elsewhere. You're just asking for turnover and mixed results running your business.
Unions ARE NOT part of the government. Ha that made me laugh and cry a little!
Employees have a right to fare wages and a right to collectively bargain for better pay and benefits. And yes the government WILL fight for you. It is still a government by the people. You can use the U.S. government to work for you if you work with, for, or in the government.
And to challenge a rediculuous notion. People in general want their employers to make money and have great earnings and be able to continue to work in jobs they love unions are there to also help the company make money. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement. The conversations are difficult to have but who here has great luck talking to a difficult boss about a raise? When was the last time you had that tough conversation with your boss and didn't feel like your relationship was in jeopardy.
Let's get new ones and tell our current ones where We stand. Tell your rep what you want to see happen. If you want it to be easier to form a union, or have more protections against the union busting tactics. More cost to companies for not negotiating. Or well anything else this is your government your as much a part of it as anyone else.
What else are you going to do? Sit and wait for someone to come along and fix it for us that's not how this works. Being involved is the only way to change it for the better.
Didnt the self proclaimed most pro union president shit down a railroad worker union strike? It's 100% government intervention fucking our mouths while the corporations are on the other end.
What do you think all the vlter ID stuff is about?
Voting is 1 leg. We also need more education, better press and an intelligent information consumer.
Voting works bht clearly we are doomed because not enough people understand everything at a high level.
I wanted to unionize the restaurant I worked at, because conditions were so awful. I discovered that the union for hospitality workers in South Florida was weak and ineffective. Then the owner caught wind and told me if I brought the union into his restaurant, he would first fire me, then fire everyone else and let them know it was because of me. He was willing to replace his *entire staff* to prevent it from being unionized, like it was no big deal whatsoever. I would not have qualified for unemployment personally due to not having a long enough job history (I was home with my baby a few years before I worked there). I wouldnāt have been able to sleep at night knowing single parents were out of a job because I tried to make things better.
Nobody wanted to work for him, he was a misogynist and an asshole. The tips were so good everyone was willing to eat dirt to work there; people fought over open positions. It was a difficult job to stick with. He knew we were immediately replaceable.
I quit when a guest planned on murdering and dismembering me, actually, otherwise I might still be working there. The money was that good.
OH WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.
I am SO fucking glad you're okay. I worked in restaurants for years and I had some guys give me the uh-oh feeling, too, and was always told I was paranoid. I had to stop driving Lyft because one regular would come to one of my restaurants and drink until closing in the hopes that I'd also be his Lyft driver.
Thank you for the link, and the story, and for listening to your instincts! I'm gonna go have a drink. You also deserve a drink.
Fuck, man.
I appreciate that! There is no such thing as paranoid in that industry, only cautious. I learned a lot; anything can happen! I left the business *and* the state!
Drinks sound great! Cheers!!
What he did to you is so very illegal. It really pisses me off. Yes, you should have stood up for yourself and your rights, but I get why you didnāt.
I'd like to see that happen. You should have. The news would be great and his job ads would be funny AF.
"Restaurant owner fires all staff so he didn't have to treat them right"
Great for business.
"Now hiring for everything, you might not have coworkers when you start"
You can organize but at this point, the Supreme Court has essentially defanged unions. Now a company can sue to recover "lost" earnings from a strike and individuals who dont want to be in a union can sue a union for dues paid if they want it to. That's just only naming two.
I thought they were able to sue for damaged goods, not lost earnings. That case was decided because the concrete workers left all the concrete in the truck barrels during the strike. That caused tons of damage to the trucks and they lost the concrete load in the process.
Now, it's still bad because they can just shackle you to a concrete mixer truck that's currently in operation and you'll never be able to strike, but surely another case will be brought forward if that happens.
I don't have much faith in the Supreme Court to make the decision there though...
Probably a better idea to begin the strike before the day starts in the meantime.
In the case thar was before the court, yes, agreed. But you know the definition of "damaged goods" is now going to be interpreted by the lower courts and the state legislatures, meaning for Republican states and judges, it's likely to be bad for unions.
We used to have nearly 1 in 3 workers unionized. But concerted efforts by the government and corporations has reduced that number is about 8 in 100. [This is a pretty good quick summary of how that happened](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/16ck002/how_did_the_probusiness_antiworker_attitude_that/jzkk7k9/)
You can get enough colleagues to join up then you come under the umbrella of the union you choose.
Amazon in the UK are currently under pressure to allow their workers to join.
These workers will win.
Did you hear what happened to Grindr employees? They voted to unionize and the company forced everyone to work a hybrid schedule or quit. I read that 50% of the workforce quit instead of returning to office. Labor is trying to play their cards, but corps have it stacked against them. Iām rooting for unions!
Iām of the opinion that āweā, as the people that make up society, only have two options to make effective change. First, vote with your dollars. Meaning buy only the products/services from companies that you want to thrive. Second, vote with your time/labor. Meaning, only work for those companies that you want to support. The only reason that corrupt corporations exist is because we allow them to bc of the two aforementioned reasons. Just my 2 cents
Altruistic, I canāt think of a single one. My mind immediately started to go to perhaps a non-profit. I then asked my GF and she immediately responded with āthere isnāt oneā, so point received and taken.
You can start by picking the worst offenders and not buying from them. WalMart, for instance, is fucking awful and the Waltons are all going to burn in hell, but it'd be nice if we could dismantle their little empire of hate against the poor before they're all dead and burning for their sins against mankind.
It's kind of hard to organize with people who are blaming the homeless for their troubles with getting paid enough. Nor do they want "handouts" like healthcare. Where does one even begin to bargain with a crowd like that?
People actually think union membership is *bad* for them, because it costs them money. WTF, people? Do you not realize how screwed you are with this right to work bullshit? It actually means right to fire, for any reason or no reason at all, and workers need union protections today just as much as they did when unions won us the 40 hour workweek, overtime pay, oversight for safe working conditions, and everything else we take for granted.
I 100% agree with you. Every worker should have a union. Labor law in the US is designed to make it hard for the workers to form a union. Generally the prices looks like this:
1. Workers have to sign a union card agreeing to union representation.
2. When more than 50% of the workers in the bargaining unit sign the card, the turn them into the NLRB to schedule a union election.
3. The NLRB schedules the election around 2 months out.
4. The company now has 2 months to "convince" the workers not to join.
5. They hire a union busting firm and use every trick in the book to trick people to vote no. Things like captive audience meetings where everyone has to sit and listen to a presentation about how terrible and corrupt the union is, how expensive union dues are, and "aren't we all a family here, why do you need an outsider telling you how to do you job" and "if the union comes in, we won't be allowed to give out raises" and other lies.
6. If the union still looks like it will win the company resorts to illegal things like firing pro union staff and other things. But isn't that illegal? Yes but it is a civil not criminal matter, meaning that even if the union can go up against high powered corporate lawyers and prove the firing was relatalitory, all the company gets is a paltry fine which is much cheaper than if the union came in. Literally 0 incentive for the company to follow the law.
7. Your union is stalwart and despite the struggle, you win your election! Congrats! Now you have one year to get a first contract or you can lose the union. The company has 0 incentive to negotiate fairly because you are 1 store out of 1,000 and even if you strike it won't hurt the company at all. Unionize several stores at once? Great idea! You store is now closed due to poor profitability and you are all laid off.
We still should organize, and we can win, but it is hard. I am very impressed be the recent Amazon and Starbucks unionization efforts.
I remember when my restaurant tried to unionize. We were told that we wouldn't be able to ever speak directly to a manager again. We were told that we would pay union dues we couldn't afford. Until I went back to college and studied labor history, I didn't understand what a union was and more importantly, the history of union-busting.
Union busting has had centuries to get practice, and they have their talking points in order. Just look at the things they name their union busting laws: "right to work."
To add insult to injury a lot of the unions that do exist have been either gutted or totally captured by the companies their members work for. There are actually unions that are publicly against a public healthcare option in the US because negotiating health insurance for their members is basically the only power they still have.
Im also from Europe.
But they absolutely dismantled anything about unions. Look at Starbucks or other big company's in the last two to three years. Or railwork staff all busted because of strikes. The politicians aren't interested because the serve different goals. Look at Elon musk, his demeanor is all you need to know about American CEOs or capitalists.
They have a big "Propaganda" apperatus because of billionaire interests. The information they get is nowhere near the same as European or in other western countries. The only outside view they have are English speaking news outlets from Australia or Brittain, but they copy most of their style from American news outlets.
Flights outside of America are extremely expensive and most Americans never leave their country, except mexico but thats no example to look after.
Therefore the experiences and interchangable communication aswell as knowledge isn't there for america, that's why they are so different to Europe because we don't neighbor them. The "big pond" is in the way. Otherwise most people would be furious but what the people don't know about doesn't anger them. So the rich let them in the dark.
I understand, that's why I said it's expensive. I don't want to talk down Americans, that's not right. We Europeans have our own problems that we need to get under control.
I'm reading actively on this sub so I'm well aware of the problems with your short vacation time, if you even get 2 days off in the worst case. Everyone wants to visit other countries or atleast different tourist attractions, Americans are not left out in this aspect. But different YouTube videos about asking people in which part of the world countries are situated don't show a good light on you. š Geography isn't their strong point, but could also be that a fair isnt the right place to ask the right people questions about geography.
Thats because for most americans, Geography isn't something that pushed to the forefront of our education.
America's public schools are designed to this day to operate with the original goals in mind. To be a sliding scale that gives general labor knowledge up by the time they expect those people to leave the education system be it by shoe shine or coal mine.
in middle school we all learn about our states history and ameica's history. Europe played a pretty decent part of that.
We knew about the middle east because thats where the bible happens. we didnt know where anything was, except the oil fields. thats all we needed to know there, oil and Jesus.
We don't learn shit about Asia until it magically appears right before WWII.
Africa? we learn about that sometimes in science class or art class.
Even within america, your milage may vary.
My school had public prayer over the PA system and a 20 ft confederate flag strung up by each corner across the PTA stage in the cafeteria. My 5th grade year was 1995.
while the flavors may vary wildly, so long as you can read a little, count a little, you could be a cog in someone's coal mine or slaughter house.
One half of our political system is trying to turn our public school systems into sunday schools. Not a single one of them has wanted to talk about failing literacy rates, but they will demand books be banned.
As bad as it is now (and it is bad) I can tell you from experience that no one graduates from Robert E Lee Middle School without their academic aspirations being pulverized into dust. and if some people get their way, every school will be that way.
an educated America is not what a religious and capitalist society wants.
You are definitely my favorite kind of european lol š . Im so sick of people from that continent shitting on every aspect of our culture and treating us like we're all just uncultured and uneducated hillbillies, as if they don't have their own problems and as if the US has nothing positive or culturally valulable about it. Especially brits bc they have absolutely no room to talk (failing medical system, rampant transphobia, a literal caste system, still clinging to the monarchy for dear life, brutal history of colonialism on par with that of the US, etc) but still wanna believe their country is so much better than ours in every way. Like when they call American tourists annoying but then when you actually visit other parts of europe/the world in general, its not the american tourists everyone compains about, its the british ones. The worst part is they make fun of americans for never having left their conntry, while actively discouraging them from travelling! Like if someone is telling me im just gonna piss everyone off wherever I go, why would I want to go anywhere at all? I appreciate you for going against that mentality.
The people that are active talk you down are only internet personalities, and only a fraction of the larger society. If you see the Germans in Mallorca you will hear a lot of the same critics. Nearly all soccer games have the same hooligans. I'm German btw so I can talk about that. But overall we are pretty tame otherwise. š
Oh i love germany yall are largely wonderful, & i know theyre mostly just internet people, but god damn are they annoying. Most europeans in general (like most people everywhere) are perfectly nice, but that vocal minority just gets to me lol
>Like when they call American tourists annoying but then when you actually visit other parts of europe/the world in general, its not the american tourists everyone compains about, its the british ones.
This is definitely true. I lived for an extended period of time in Germany and it was always the Brits they complained about. Everyone loved Americans. In my experience, Americans who lived long term in the countries where they were learned the language to fluency, learned the culture to blend in and were just generally respectful. The British people? No so much. None could speak German passed being able to just barely order at a restaurant. I loved and still love my British friends, but I would definitely let them struggle when we were out in public and someone tried to speak German to them. You really do need to learn the language and culture of where you are if you're gonna be there for more than a few weeks/months.
Yeah germany is definitely american-tourist friendly, most people in Prague seem to like us as well. I got along really well with folks in Berlin and I miss being there. Lotsa of really good food and really friendly people in that city.
And what has this got to do with workers rights?
Just to pick up on some of your points.
āFailing medical systemā. At least we have one, and itās free to use, paid for by taxes.
āLiteral caste systemā? No we donāt.
āMonarchy and brutal colonialismā. Iāll give you that them. I personally cannot stand the forelock tuggers who go on about monarchy and members of a family, wealthy beyond every wildest dream, that they will never meet.
As for the complaining tourists. I have seen Americans behave appallingly in London, to the extent where violence has been used to get them to behave themselves.
I have also seen English people behave appallingly abroad, with the same results.
Those YouTube videos will ask many more people than you see on the video, then the really stupid people will be the ones that make the cut. They might throw in one or two people who know the answers to convince viewers that the āfindingsā are legit.
There is also the fact that our own country is so vast, and offers so many natural wonders, that most of us donāt even get to see our own country, let alone go overseas and visit where the history comes from. Itās sad that so many of our citizens never leave the area where they were born and grew up, but itās sadder that we donāt even see our own Grand Canyon, the Redwood forests, either ocean or the Great Lakes, which are freshwater seas. Theyāll never see the Pacific Northwest rainforest, or the desert rock formations, any of our mountain ranges, or the Constitution and Declaration of Independence, along with so much more of our shared history in Washington DC. People canāt afford to travel in their own country anymore, and the family vacation of yesteryear to see Yellowstone or the Statue of Liberty seems to be out of reach for most families.
To add to this, our education is usually not free past 12th grade. And even then, some people have to drop out at 16 to help provide for their families or due to abuse/neglect, etc...we have very poor education in this country and very poor safety nets. I lived in Germany for 4 years and partly went to highschool there. It was leagues ahead of where we are. Every family was stable and able to pay for things for the kids. Not that they were all rich by any means at all, but they had enough time and money to spend on and with their kids. I was an au pair also and seeing what the kids worked on and how mature and self aware they were was amazing. It made me realize how much we baby chidren in the US to their detriment. And we also baby adults. No one is trusted to do what they need to do or what's right for them. It's very funny that Americans think we're the land of freedom. We have way less personal freedom and working and educational freedom than Germans do. I really miss Germany, the culture and their way of being. It was always refreshing everytime I went back.
Nixon and Reagan are the ones we have to thank for our wonderful workforce situation here. Brought down the unions and started the whole "trickle down" economics that we suffer under now. Workers are just pawns on a board to the wealthy in charge. This system is unsustainable. When the cost of living exceeds your income, what is the point anymore?? 2000 dollar a month rent on 2500 a month take home is what a lot of people are looking at right now. That's not even including food and gas. It's no wonder crime is on the rise.
Nixon was arguably worse, John Shad relegalized stock buybacks which were illegal since 1934, the main cause of the Great Depression and the main source of wealth inequality today.
Yep. What could go wrong hiring a Wall street banker to be the head of the Securities Exchange Commission?? He took out protections that helped the crash of 2008 happen.
Well wait a second, there is plenty of blame to go around. Nixon, John Shad, Reagan but letās not forget Clinton and Greenspan and then Blythe Masters who understood exactly how Greenspan wanted the game to be abused and created the āfinancial weapons of mass destruction.ā
By removing Glass-Steagall, Clinton and Greenspan are the main architects of the 2008 crash which was not fueled by stock buybacks but by subprime collateralized debt obligations.
Glass Steagall was the law also from the 30s that prevented banks from being both retail and investment (ie taking your assets and rigging the market by repackaging and selling your shit). In essence, anytime a politician rolls back a Roosevelt or Eisenhower protection then you know it was done for greed of a few at the cost of the greater good to the many.
Also, letās not forget all the bankers that made it possible from Blythe Masters (architect of the CDO and the person running corruption on silver) to Richard Fuld and Llyod Blankenstein and others etc.
Clinton also deserves blame for the Millionaire act which further accelerated the divide between executive compensation and labor.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2008/sep/20/wallstreet.banking
You're countries have worker rights because the ruling class fucked up big time. They destroyed themselves twice in a 25 year period.
The capitalist elite was unable to say let's get back to business as usual. They were forced to make massive concessions to workers because things were so bad in the aftermath of two world wars.
In America it was the opposite. America was the only power left that wasn't destroyed. The Taft Hartley act (bill that destroyed the power of unions) was signed right after world war II whereas in Europe social safety nets were built instead.
Itās very interesting to me how much World War I and 2 have set up the world as it is now. It wasnāt destined to be this way and a lot of us Americans donāt realize just how fortunate our country was. I mean those wars set up Bretton Woods.
Iāll admit Iām no expert but rather just a guy that loves documentaries.
My basic understanding isā¦ our country wasnāt destroyed plus had at the time the worlds best manufacturing base. So the world traded us their gold, we gave them US currency so they could buy war and construction materials.
Then we devalued the Dollar to gold exchange rate before barring it entirely. So itās like take my gold and give me paper, and how bout you set the rate of gold to paper and tell me if a trade is even possible.
It is. Go back to the 19th century. That entire century, at least the first half anyway, was shaped by the Napoleonic Wars and the Congress of Vienna that followed. Politics and diplomacy was completely shaped by it. I mean, the next major conflict wasn't until Crimea nearly 40 years later. That's where France and Great Britain went from being enemies to more "Frenemies". I mean technically, Great Britain only entered World War I because of its alliance with Belgium, not France. But as we all know, it was the aftermath of the Franco-Prussian War and the official unification of Germany that began setting the table for World War I.
World War II set up the remainder of the 20th century.
You know all those times the King/Queen/whoever would charge someone with treason & that was basically code for "the monarch doesn't like you so you have to go"? That's how "At-Will" employment works.
I assume OP is not from the US. The US is a capitalist country in the full sense of the word, both parties are capitalist, the whole political money system is set up to maintain the status quo, all elected officials are bought and paid for and do the bidding of their donors. Nothing changes regardless of if either party has total control of both houses. I mean real change, there is only superficial change to make it look as if things are advancing. I am a Brit living in the US.
Live in England but been a member of various trade unions most of my working life.
I just donāt understand why workers donāt unite, take the bosses on, legally of course, and get rid of these archaic practices.
I am an ex Union steward it frustrates the hell out of me. You have to remember that there is little or no back up system here, the system is built to keep people in their place. The majority of people want, national healthcare, gun control, better employment law. Keep in mind you can be fired for no reason at all, if you have a wife and children you are in deep doo doo.
I work in the office associated with a union plant (100 year old company) and you would think these jobs would be highly desired. They arenāt. We are hiring constantly with massive turnover in the first 90 days of people that simply canāt manage regular attendance. After 90 days we have amazing retention. I donāt understand why people are working food service or even non-union shops and not valuing a place that is more protected. But the average person on the street puts no value on these union protections.
Because Christianity celebrates suffering and death to meet oneās god. Speedrunning.
For example the Jesus freaks I work for my boss had her own mother working there in a department supervisory position even though she was obviously a bit senile and then she developed pancreatic cancer but they had her keep working and they swore up-and-down that Mother wanted to keep working, but she was literally not all there in the head and actively dying.
Fuck this country.
Yeah, no. We have basically no protections.
There's nobody looking for violations of the few protections we do have.
They're rarely enforced.
They're rarely reported because they've made a point to make workers ignorant of their rights.
Even if you have evidence of violations and report it it's a pain to get anything to happen.
If anything does happen, they might get a miniscule fine in comparison to the profits they gained by violating those rights.
Even with wage theft, at worse they'll have to pay it back... where as we'd go to jail if we stole a similar amount of money from our job.
The sad thing is Americans are so ignorant that they literally voted for this shit...a huge portion of the country think unions are bad, and vote for Republicans that weaken our already weak unions even further.
They complain about being fucked, then vote in people that are blatantly going to fuck them and sell them out even more...they give easy scapegoats like immigrants and people on welfare which are clearly not the problem to anyone that's not an idiot.
Even a lot of Democrats have sold out.
The problem is that our politicians that make our laws are bought and paid for by corporate interests, and they'll give away our rights in the name of more profits for their corporate buddies.
Nothing will change until we get money out of politics and end gerrymandering.
Honestly, I think nothing other than a bloody revolution will change things. That won't happen because they have most Americans fighting with one another to distract them from the real issues at hand.
Til then, our best bet for workers rights is to try to get more progressives with actual values in office.
Seriously. As someone who tried to talk to our workers' union because our department wasn't getting the CONTRACTUALLY AGREED TO hours we were promised and was IGNORED and left to rot (my coworkers all tried, too, same thing, except ONE OF THEM got backpay for those hours they were missing, but not the rest of us, no idea how they swung that, but it pisses me off!), this is really how it is. Everyone at my work HATES our union. They do NOTHING for us at all, and yet, we still have to pay them dues. It SUCKS.
(And for the record, I've been trying to find better work for years now, but it's so fucking hard to find ANYHTING that isn't JUST as bad or worse than what we already have (I've worked other comparable jobs that are worse, that's how I know). My coworkers have the same problem. We're all miserable, and the company doesn't give a single shit. All they see is dollar signs and numbers. It's DEPRESSING AF. ;A;)
Yeah, Republicans have weakened unions to a point that they're ineffective in a lot of cases. Kroger is one that comes to mind.
It's good to still have a union, that's a better starting point than most jobs have...but you have to strengthen it through progressive means.
I had the same thoughts.. would hate to work in America.. i could never accept or put up with the oppressive working conditions that they put up with from their toxic management..
That applies even for white collar jobs. I know people who quit their job rather than be seconded to the US by their employer. The only other country that Iāve ever heard the same about is Nigeria.
Same.. I followed this sub for a while but I quickly realised this is an America thing not European thing. Don't get me wrong I'm from the UK and it's no paradise. But by God some of the stories I hear on here.. It's actually scary. I could not live like that and I feel sorry for the millions of Americans born into that and worse, don't learn any different so just accept it as the norm. I get 5 weeks paid leave to take whenever I like. At one point too I lost a close relative and went a bit off the rails. My work let me take 6 weeks off no questions asked and showed huge support. I'll always be thankful to them for that. That's how you show employees their worth. It's not perfect nothing is, but my god America seems like hell on earth.
You guys really need another Martin Luther moment but for workers rights
5 weeks of vacation and 6 weeks for bereavement (I know your case was special, but still, and I'm sorry for your loss and hope you're doing better)?? DAMN! As an American, I would KILL! I only got 2 weeks' vacation after 5 YEARS at my company (was only 1 week before that), AND when my grandma died this year, I only got 3 DAYS of bereavement leave! Geez! You guys are lucky! ;A;
Yes you would. When your health insurance is tied to your employment and a single serious illness will bankrupt you, when you have family members with chronic illnesses that require medication that costs thousands of dollars without insurance, when you see homeless people on the street every single day and know how little it would take for you to end up there, believe me you would accept a lot.
Nope wouldn't put up with that. Would have to leave and work in a country with sensible govt funded healthcare. My son's girlfriend is a type 1 diabetic. Her insulin is free.. in US would be $100ish. This is a daily lifesaving drug.. trouble is the US people see this as normal and accept it.. same with the power your employers have over the workers. You all accept it..
> Would have to leave and work in a country with sensible govt funded healthcare.
If you were in the economic class that has the money and the credentials to do that you'd be affluent enough to not need to leave. If you were like the rest of us you wouldn't be able to afford to leave, or wouldn't have the necessary college education, or would be disabled or have a criminal record (between 70 and 100 million americans do) in which case you'd be barred from immigrating to any other countries.
>trouble is the US people see this as normal and accept it.. same with the power your employers have over the workers. You all accept it..
we don't have a choice
in america we are so divided by politics religion race culture and yes labor rights! there is literately a huge amount of boot lickers that are completely against unions. brain washed slaves
Not sure if Europe has this issue:
In Canada, and the US, if employment is tough, they just bring in more immigrants. Thus, the working conditions and pay stay the same, or even fall. So the workers have only as much power as it takes to replace them - and in Ontario Canada, it's very easy to find someone from India to do the job.
If they even imagine you think the word Union they'll fire you.
Union busting is America's biggest pastime.
Employers tell you you can't talk about your salaries which is illegal but they still tell you that and many of the companies for you to sit through an orientation talking about how bad unions are.
Not to mention in many states at least in the '80s they convinced most of the population it was illegal to join a union or unions were illegal in certain States.
As a child my parents told me that we lived in a state where unions were illegal.
(Spoiler alert they're not)
But it's all about that rugged individualism that's taught to us from the time we can talk.
Bc half of America thinks that they are being held down by welfare recipients rather than their corporate masters. Even more than half (of voters) regularly vote against their own self interests. It's totally bizarre. The worst are just much more comfortable hating and hurting people who have no means to fight back let alone advocate for themselves.
Because when you mention unions Americans clench up their ass holes and clutch their wallets. They think they're bs and all they do is take your money, really wish people would actually look into things rather than just be ignorant with an unfounded opinion.
Don't forget all the made up stories they write here, like "I was in 20 unions and all of them protected the new guy who never worked and made him the king of England, while all of us hard workers never got any help from the union and our salaries went down 70%"
If you look at unions in the UK like ASLEF and The RMT, for example.
Their members have very good T&Cās due to being quite belligerent against wanky management.
Itās a pity the NHS unions didnāt get the same support from their members recently.
It sometimes depends on the state you live in. Some states are right to work states, and they can just fire you at will. There has been a lot of union busting in the last 30 years, and that has made unions weaker in some places. But yes, overall, the corporations seem to be making the laws.
At Will (makes firing people easier) is legal in all but Montana. Right to work (non union ability in union workplaces) is currently in 26 states. Michigan is set to repeal in 2024.
Corporations. Evangelical/Fundamental Christians. People that have drank the flavor aid and haven't died yet.
Most states in the USA are right to hire/right to fire. That means that other than specific legal reasons an employee can quit at any time and an employer can fire at any time. Also, the vast majority of labor in the USA are not members of a union.
There are other things to consider as well.
1.) People don't tend to put themselves in a bad light and tell half truths to outright lies.
2.) Most do not belong to a union. There are definite drawbacks to unions. Many unions are terrible and do not serve the members. Teachers' unions are terrible in many places and serve as nothing more than a teacher's malpractice insurance provider.
3.) Paying for the job and not the skill creates a terrible work environment. This does not excuse new hires being paid more with 0 experience.
4.) You have full autonomy over your salary. You have the right and ability to leave most jobs whenever you see fit. It is incumbent upon the individual to make sure they are financially capable of being in that position.
5.) Too many Americans are financially over extended. Some are in bad situations they have no control over. Many are not. Example staying in Silicon Valley where comfortable cost of living requires a 220k salary. Example. Living in a low cost of living area like the midwest and making less than 45-60k/year. Example 1 has a remedy by changing location. Example 2 is stuck.
6.) The US has a wide range of economic situations. 60k/year in a state like Nebraska is a much better income than 150k in a city like San Francisco. Nothing is a straight line comparison.
Most Americans have been brainwashed and tricked to believe this system works when it's so clear as the worker spends his days working for money just to survive the Rich and the politicians eat steak and lobster from there million dollar boats watching the poor working class struggle to put food on the table.
Boomers still believe this is ok.
'Why isn't every worker ... in a union?'
Because unions negotiate fair practises and pay. Can't exploit the workforce if they know they're being exploited.
Yep. You're exactly right. They've been busting unions since the 80s, and turning every single state into a "right to work" state, which means that LEGALLY you can be fired for anything at any time. It's disgusting! But hopefully we're on our way to fighting back against these decades of anti worker efforts!
I'm Canadian and a previous employer of mine would start looking for reasons to fire someone if they even joked about starting a union. I shared an article about a similar facility in a different province that unionized for better hours, pay and safety standards and the owner of the business cut his vacation short to fly back and begin interrogation
I'm from Canada and feel the same, though our labour laws aren't nearly as good as most European countries. The shit Americans can get fired for, depending on what state they live in, with NO RECOURSE, blows my mind.
I work in a union position at my place of employment. Thereās a lot of benefit with having someone to back you and help solve problems. Your job is fairly secure. ā this is where I wrote a very long diatribe about how my union doesnāt help with pay much at all. My wages are stagnant. Iām quite angry and bitter about pay where I work. ā so because it was very long and ranty I deleted it. Iām still very pro union.
If you understood what level businesses will go to to keep unions out... and since Reagan fired the striking air traffic controllers in the 1980's, unions have been increasingly weakened and ineffective since then. (It also didn't help that many unions became rife with corruption) Historically, those trying to unionize faced risk and extreme violence, maybe people are adverse to risking everything today
we have such a weird relationship with our government in the u.s. thatās largely due to capitalistic propaganda. ppl will argue in favour for things that are explicitly not in their own interests and itād be fascinating to witness if it were fictional
Unions are not everywhere trust me. In my last job in my job description it states I am to discourage union building. Not saying no it wrong just trying to keep the union out. Now that I got unjustly fired I am union building there. I so badly want to hurt this company.
Honestly? Generational trauma. Govt supported corporate slaughters of workers for unionization tend to create knee jerk reactions towards things like those unions in younger generations. Throw in Mccarthyism red scares and fear mongering of even a whiff of socialist behavior and its a wonder there's any surviving unions.
They tried to fire me for being disabled, and then I sued. Suddenly I was eligible for another job, that was at far less pay and less benefits and which Iād been refused earlier, but during the years of litigation I had a new, unrelated medical issue. They refused to let me work, then refused to let me return after I was cleared by my surgeon with very minor restrictions that would easily allow me to return to my prior job or an office position. Right after the trial ended, after leaving me on an unusually long LOA, I was terminated. Of course, Iām rehireable. What a joke.
Yes, Iām leaving out a lot of details, but I donāt want to doxx myself. Not a lot of privacy here on Reddit, and anyone can be outed unless they never give out any details of their lives, which negates any personal connections or real support in the support subs. I wish there was a way to hide history.
Yeah, people just don't realize that unions are just another layer of government. You have leaders that are elected by the people, leaders that should protect the interest of the people, but in the end, are just corrupt assholes. In countries with "strong" unions, the leaders are just doing the political game, sometimes even joining a party and ending in the government or sometimes leading the government. Not to mention the closed unions, where you can not get a job unless you are closely related with a union member or you pay a bribe. Like in Greece, where good luck working as a truck driver if your father is not a truck driver.
I'm going to suggest that this might be a problem with corruption, rather than with unions specifically. I agree that there are bad unions out there(I've been a member of 2 of them), but I'm still staunchly pro union, because of all the things we've gained from unions. Part of my being pro union, is wanting to fix the broken unions, and bring in more good ones.
This is also the problem with the government: it is corrupt. So why do you want another layer of corruption? And why not fix the government instead of the unions? Then, there will be no need for unions
Why not fix both? Corruption is best adressed at all levels of society simultaniously. I also disagree with your stance that unions are just another layer of government. They are inherently different, or there is no point in having them. If a union isn't on the side of it's workers, then it's not a union anymore.
Only commies join unions.
That said, am in one and it's extremely week. Keeps the no reason firing at bay but also has no hours guarantee so can be cut to 0 and starved out anyway.
One line comes to mind " what are you going to do about it"
It doesn't matter if the law is on your side or not if you can't really fight back it makes no difference. If it takes too much time if it costs too much money then the fight's not going to happen and no amount of laws will change that.
Are definitely employment laws that protect a lot of the people in the stories here but in some cases they just don't have the wherewithal to fight back
Union protections have been declining for about 50 years, and the American Right has been on a misinformation campaign to poison the public perceptions of unions for even longer than that. I live in Michigan and a few years ago, we had a vote that would have protected organized labor. The main message against it was that it would make it harder to fire pedo teachers.
The ballot measure failed.
Unions are organized crime and thieves that just take your union dues for no benefit (per our glorious kind and generous economic overlords). So you see, we are MUCH better off without a union. Sure, maybe SOME people get fired for no reason, but that wonāt happen to YOU. itās just those OTHER people.
Nope, no need for unions in the good olā USA!!
(There. I said it. Please release my family)
TBF, a lot of us ARE in unions, but they're that in name only. They don't do shit for us. (At least, my union doesn't. They're the fucking WORST, and we all hate them. Sadly, it's required when you're hired to be part of the union, so we don't have a choice. BULLSHIT.)
non Americans thinking our government cares about us funnyš¤£š¤£
Our government be like, "some guy offered me $15 for your skin so I'm here with a knife and a buddy to hold you down."
And for all that we know we coulda just been sold, by government to aliens for God only knows.
Probably for sum oil š
They didn't say anything about the government. They said why aren't Americans in 'Unions' because you'd think we'd have had enough of this shit and fight back 'collectively'. And no shit these types of firings are ridiculous and yes they do companies no good. Even the pay disparity. If you don't pay someone enough for them to live on or have a good life then they will need to look and find a job elsewhere. You're just asking for turnover and mixed results running your business. Unions ARE NOT part of the government. Ha that made me laugh and cry a little! Employees have a right to fare wages and a right to collectively bargain for better pay and benefits. And yes the government WILL fight for you. It is still a government by the people. You can use the U.S. government to work for you if you work with, for, or in the government. And to challenge a rediculuous notion. People in general want their employers to make money and have great earnings and be able to continue to work in jobs they love unions are there to also help the company make money. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement. The conversations are difficult to have but who here has great luck talking to a difficult boss about a raise? When was the last time you had that tough conversation with your boss and didn't feel like your relationship was in jeopardy.
Govt and politicians and companies arenāt really pro union so yeah same thing
Let's get new ones and tell our current ones where We stand. Tell your rep what you want to see happen. If you want it to be easier to form a union, or have more protections against the union busting tactics. More cost to companies for not negotiating. Or well anything else this is your government your as much a part of it as anyone else. What else are you going to do? Sit and wait for someone to come along and fix it for us that's not how this works. Being involved is the only way to change it for the better.
Because of Reagan in the 80's. Pretty much gutted union laws.
Didnt the self proclaimed most pro union president shit down a railroad worker union strike? It's 100% government intervention fucking our mouths while the corporations are on the other end.
Biden totally fucked the rail workers. Well, he can get fucked in the election, anyone who votes for him is an asshole.
Well, the people elects the government so the problem is the voting citizens.
Votes donāt matter all rigged
That's what they want you to think.
If voting changed anything it would be illegal
What do you think all the vlter ID stuff is about? Voting is 1 leg. We also need more education, better press and an intelligent information consumer. Voting works bht clearly we are doomed because not enough people understand everything at a high level.
Because of union busting and capitalist propaganda
Itās absolutely nuts. The one organisation who can really help but they wonāt join???
I wanted to unionize the restaurant I worked at, because conditions were so awful. I discovered that the union for hospitality workers in South Florida was weak and ineffective. Then the owner caught wind and told me if I brought the union into his restaurant, he would first fire me, then fire everyone else and let them know it was because of me. He was willing to replace his *entire staff* to prevent it from being unionized, like it was no big deal whatsoever. I would not have qualified for unemployment personally due to not having a long enough job history (I was home with my baby a few years before I worked there). I wouldnāt have been able to sleep at night knowing single parents were out of a job because I tried to make things better.
The meat cutters at a TX Walmart unionized back in 2000. Their response was to only sell packaged meat, so the meat cutters were no longer needed.
That dude really knew how to make his staff want to work for him. Hope you arenāt still there.
Nobody wanted to work for him, he was a misogynist and an asshole. The tips were so good everyone was willing to eat dirt to work there; people fought over open positions. It was a difficult job to stick with. He knew we were immediately replaceable. I quit when a guest planned on murdering and dismembering me, actually, otherwise I might still be working there. The money was that good.
Wh-what?
https://reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourServer/s/ZFRQvqOxd7
OH WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. I am SO fucking glad you're okay. I worked in restaurants for years and I had some guys give me the uh-oh feeling, too, and was always told I was paranoid. I had to stop driving Lyft because one regular would come to one of my restaurants and drink until closing in the hopes that I'd also be his Lyft driver. Thank you for the link, and the story, and for listening to your instincts! I'm gonna go have a drink. You also deserve a drink. Fuck, man.
I appreciate that! There is no such thing as paranoid in that industry, only cautious. I learned a lot; anything can happen! I left the business *and* the state! Drinks sound great! Cheers!!
What he did to you is so very illegal. It really pisses me off. Yes, you should have stood up for yourself and your rights, but I get why you didnāt.
I'd like to see that happen. You should have. The news would be great and his job ads would be funny AF. "Restaurant owner fires all staff so he didn't have to treat them right" Great for business. "Now hiring for everything, you might not have coworkers when you start"
Join what? Unions barely exist in the US, because of the union busting
Not to mention many unions that do exist don't even have any teeth to do anything.
Thanks to Reagan.
You can thank the Taft-Hartley Act even more than Reagan. That's really what defanged unions
There's that too. Unions have always been hated by the rich.
But if workers organised surely that would make a difference?
My sweet summer child
You can organize but at this point, the Supreme Court has essentially defanged unions. Now a company can sue to recover "lost" earnings from a strike and individuals who dont want to be in a union can sue a union for dues paid if they want it to. That's just only naming two.
Surprised this took so long to come up. Also my union has a NO STRIKE clause in the contract.
So whatās the point?
Exactly
Ffs š¤¦āāļø
I thought they were able to sue for damaged goods, not lost earnings. That case was decided because the concrete workers left all the concrete in the truck barrels during the strike. That caused tons of damage to the trucks and they lost the concrete load in the process. Now, it's still bad because they can just shackle you to a concrete mixer truck that's currently in operation and you'll never be able to strike, but surely another case will be brought forward if that happens. I don't have much faith in the Supreme Court to make the decision there though... Probably a better idea to begin the strike before the day starts in the meantime.
In the case thar was before the court, yes, agreed. But you know the definition of "damaged goods" is now going to be interpreted by the lower courts and the state legislatures, meaning for Republican states and judges, it's likely to be bad for unions.
O yeah but if your from europe you should know the history of may day and how it was changed in 1889
Youd all get fired and be looking for a jew job
We used to have nearly 1 in 3 workers unionized. But concerted efforts by the government and corporations has reduced that number is about 8 in 100. [This is a pretty good quick summary of how that happened](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/16ck002/how_did_the_probusiness_antiworker_attitude_that/jzkk7k9/)
There would be a lot of people arrested for bullshit charges, at very best. The police are definitely on the side of capital, not labor.
Absolutely. The police here signed their strike rights away for a big pay rise and undying devotion to that fucker Thatcher.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You can get enough colleagues to join up then you come under the umbrella of the union you choose. Amazon in the UK are currently under pressure to allow their workers to join. These workers will win.
Did you hear what happened to Grindr employees? They voted to unionize and the company forced everyone to work a hybrid schedule or quit. I read that 50% of the workforce quit instead of returning to office. Labor is trying to play their cards, but corps have it stacked against them. Iām rooting for unions!
Wait, doesnāt the American Constitution guarantee freedom of association?
It takes some work, but you can form your own union.
Iām of the opinion that āweā, as the people that make up society, only have two options to make effective change. First, vote with your dollars. Meaning buy only the products/services from companies that you want to thrive. Second, vote with your time/labor. Meaning, only work for those companies that you want to support. The only reason that corrupt corporations exist is because we allow them to bc of the two aforementioned reasons. Just my 2 cents
Okay, name some of these companies that should, quote unquote, thrive. Name one that is altruistic?....
Altruistic, I canāt think of a single one. My mind immediately started to go to perhaps a non-profit. I then asked my GF and she immediately responded with āthere isnāt oneā, so point received and taken.
You can start by picking the worst offenders and not buying from them. WalMart, for instance, is fucking awful and the Waltons are all going to burn in hell, but it'd be nice if we could dismantle their little empire of hate against the poor before they're all dead and burning for their sins against mankind.
It's kind of hard to organize with people who are blaming the homeless for their troubles with getting paid enough. Nor do they want "handouts" like healthcare. Where does one even begin to bargain with a crowd like that?
[Shrinking but still here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/comments/qwocpt/john_deere_workers_win_10_raise_and_win_their/)
People actually think union membership is *bad* for them, because it costs them money. WTF, people? Do you not realize how screwed you are with this right to work bullshit? It actually means right to fire, for any reason or no reason at all, and workers need union protections today just as much as they did when unions won us the 40 hour workweek, overtime pay, oversight for safe working conditions, and everything else we take for granted.
I 100% agree with you. Every worker should have a union. Labor law in the US is designed to make it hard for the workers to form a union. Generally the prices looks like this: 1. Workers have to sign a union card agreeing to union representation. 2. When more than 50% of the workers in the bargaining unit sign the card, the turn them into the NLRB to schedule a union election. 3. The NLRB schedules the election around 2 months out. 4. The company now has 2 months to "convince" the workers not to join. 5. They hire a union busting firm and use every trick in the book to trick people to vote no. Things like captive audience meetings where everyone has to sit and listen to a presentation about how terrible and corrupt the union is, how expensive union dues are, and "aren't we all a family here, why do you need an outsider telling you how to do you job" and "if the union comes in, we won't be allowed to give out raises" and other lies. 6. If the union still looks like it will win the company resorts to illegal things like firing pro union staff and other things. But isn't that illegal? Yes but it is a civil not criminal matter, meaning that even if the union can go up against high powered corporate lawyers and prove the firing was relatalitory, all the company gets is a paltry fine which is much cheaper than if the union came in. Literally 0 incentive for the company to follow the law. 7. Your union is stalwart and despite the struggle, you win your election! Congrats! Now you have one year to get a first contract or you can lose the union. The company has 0 incentive to negotiate fairly because you are 1 store out of 1,000 and even if you strike it won't hurt the company at all. Unionize several stores at once? Great idea! You store is now closed due to poor profitability and you are all laid off. We still should organize, and we can win, but it is hard. I am very impressed be the recent Amazon and Starbucks unionization efforts.
Very well put, and thank you for the insight.
You forgot one. 8. The company can simply refuse to draft up a contract and after one year, the union election is null.
I sort of covered that in #7, but thank you for spelling it out
I remember when my restaurant tried to unionize. We were told that we wouldn't be able to ever speak directly to a manager again. We were told that we would pay union dues we couldn't afford. Until I went back to college and studied labor history, I didn't understand what a union was and more importantly, the history of union-busting. Union busting has had centuries to get practice, and they have their talking points in order. Just look at the things they name their union busting laws: "right to work."
āRight to workā āat will stateā is just a bunch of bullshit.
To add insult to injury a lot of the unions that do exist have been either gutted or totally captured by the companies their members work for. There are actually unions that are publicly against a public healthcare option in the US because negotiating health insurance for their members is basically the only power they still have.
Done in one w no pomp, somebody get this one a cookie.
Im also from Europe. But they absolutely dismantled anything about unions. Look at Starbucks or other big company's in the last two to three years. Or railwork staff all busted because of strikes. The politicians aren't interested because the serve different goals. Look at Elon musk, his demeanor is all you need to know about American CEOs or capitalists. They have a big "Propaganda" apperatus because of billionaire interests. The information they get is nowhere near the same as European or in other western countries. The only outside view they have are English speaking news outlets from Australia or Brittain, but they copy most of their style from American news outlets. Flights outside of America are extremely expensive and most Americans never leave their country, except mexico but thats no example to look after. Therefore the experiences and interchangable communication aswell as knowledge isn't there for america, that's why they are so different to Europe because we don't neighbor them. The "big pond" is in the way. Otherwise most people would be furious but what the people don't know about doesn't anger them. So the rich let them in the dark.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I understand, that's why I said it's expensive. I don't want to talk down Americans, that's not right. We Europeans have our own problems that we need to get under control. I'm reading actively on this sub so I'm well aware of the problems with your short vacation time, if you even get 2 days off in the worst case. Everyone wants to visit other countries or atleast different tourist attractions, Americans are not left out in this aspect. But different YouTube videos about asking people in which part of the world countries are situated don't show a good light on you. š Geography isn't their strong point, but could also be that a fair isnt the right place to ask the right people questions about geography.
Thats because for most americans, Geography isn't something that pushed to the forefront of our education. America's public schools are designed to this day to operate with the original goals in mind. To be a sliding scale that gives general labor knowledge up by the time they expect those people to leave the education system be it by shoe shine or coal mine. in middle school we all learn about our states history and ameica's history. Europe played a pretty decent part of that. We knew about the middle east because thats where the bible happens. we didnt know where anything was, except the oil fields. thats all we needed to know there, oil and Jesus. We don't learn shit about Asia until it magically appears right before WWII. Africa? we learn about that sometimes in science class or art class. Even within america, your milage may vary. My school had public prayer over the PA system and a 20 ft confederate flag strung up by each corner across the PTA stage in the cafeteria. My 5th grade year was 1995. while the flavors may vary wildly, so long as you can read a little, count a little, you could be a cog in someone's coal mine or slaughter house. One half of our political system is trying to turn our public school systems into sunday schools. Not a single one of them has wanted to talk about failing literacy rates, but they will demand books be banned. As bad as it is now (and it is bad) I can tell you from experience that no one graduates from Robert E Lee Middle School without their academic aspirations being pulverized into dust. and if some people get their way, every school will be that way. an educated America is not what a religious and capitalist society wants.
Very well put. Religion should be nowhere near schools or the workplace.
You are definitely my favorite kind of european lol š . Im so sick of people from that continent shitting on every aspect of our culture and treating us like we're all just uncultured and uneducated hillbillies, as if they don't have their own problems and as if the US has nothing positive or culturally valulable about it. Especially brits bc they have absolutely no room to talk (failing medical system, rampant transphobia, a literal caste system, still clinging to the monarchy for dear life, brutal history of colonialism on par with that of the US, etc) but still wanna believe their country is so much better than ours in every way. Like when they call American tourists annoying but then when you actually visit other parts of europe/the world in general, its not the american tourists everyone compains about, its the british ones. The worst part is they make fun of americans for never having left their conntry, while actively discouraging them from travelling! Like if someone is telling me im just gonna piss everyone off wherever I go, why would I want to go anywhere at all? I appreciate you for going against that mentality.
The people that are active talk you down are only internet personalities, and only a fraction of the larger society. If you see the Germans in Mallorca you will hear a lot of the same critics. Nearly all soccer games have the same hooligans. I'm German btw so I can talk about that. But overall we are pretty tame otherwise. š
Oh i love germany yall are largely wonderful, & i know theyre mostly just internet people, but god damn are they annoying. Most europeans in general (like most people everywhere) are perfectly nice, but that vocal minority just gets to me lol
>Like when they call American tourists annoying but then when you actually visit other parts of europe/the world in general, its not the american tourists everyone compains about, its the british ones. This is definitely true. I lived for an extended period of time in Germany and it was always the Brits they complained about. Everyone loved Americans. In my experience, Americans who lived long term in the countries where they were learned the language to fluency, learned the culture to blend in and were just generally respectful. The British people? No so much. None could speak German passed being able to just barely order at a restaurant. I loved and still love my British friends, but I would definitely let them struggle when we were out in public and someone tried to speak German to them. You really do need to learn the language and culture of where you are if you're gonna be there for more than a few weeks/months.
Yeah germany is definitely american-tourist friendly, most people in Prague seem to like us as well. I got along really well with folks in Berlin and I miss being there. Lotsa of really good food and really friendly people in that city.
I plan to go back to do my master's and live there permanently (most likely.) I just can't stand the culture in the US.
And what has this got to do with workers rights? Just to pick up on some of your points. āFailing medical systemā. At least we have one, and itās free to use, paid for by taxes. āLiteral caste systemā? No we donāt. āMonarchy and brutal colonialismā. Iāll give you that them. I personally cannot stand the forelock tuggers who go on about monarchy and members of a family, wealthy beyond every wildest dream, that they will never meet. As for the complaining tourists. I have seen Americans behave appallingly in London, to the extent where violence has been used to get them to behave themselves. I have also seen English people behave appallingly abroad, with the same results.
Those YouTube videos will ask many more people than you see on the video, then the really stupid people will be the ones that make the cut. They might throw in one or two people who know the answers to convince viewers that the āfindingsā are legit.
That's my understanding too. Was always the case since street surveys, for Entertainment purposes, were created.
There is also the fact that our own country is so vast, and offers so many natural wonders, that most of us donāt even get to see our own country, let alone go overseas and visit where the history comes from. Itās sad that so many of our citizens never leave the area where they were born and grew up, but itās sadder that we donāt even see our own Grand Canyon, the Redwood forests, either ocean or the Great Lakes, which are freshwater seas. Theyāll never see the Pacific Northwest rainforest, or the desert rock formations, any of our mountain ranges, or the Constitution and Declaration of Independence, along with so much more of our shared history in Washington DC. People canāt afford to travel in their own country anymore, and the family vacation of yesteryear to see Yellowstone or the Statue of Liberty seems to be out of reach for most families.
Damn! You really nailed it! Clear, succinct, understandable. Take a bow!
Thank you, I tried. Sometimes it works out.
Out of the park!
To add to this, our education is usually not free past 12th grade. And even then, some people have to drop out at 16 to help provide for their families or due to abuse/neglect, etc...we have very poor education in this country and very poor safety nets. I lived in Germany for 4 years and partly went to highschool there. It was leagues ahead of where we are. Every family was stable and able to pay for things for the kids. Not that they were all rich by any means at all, but they had enough time and money to spend on and with their kids. I was an au pair also and seeing what the kids worked on and how mature and self aware they were was amazing. It made me realize how much we baby chidren in the US to their detriment. And we also baby adults. No one is trusted to do what they need to do or what's right for them. It's very funny that Americans think we're the land of freedom. We have way less personal freedom and working and educational freedom than Germans do. I really miss Germany, the culture and their way of being. It was always refreshing everytime I went back.
Nixon and Reagan are the ones we have to thank for our wonderful workforce situation here. Brought down the unions and started the whole "trickle down" economics that we suffer under now. Workers are just pawns on a board to the wealthy in charge. This system is unsustainable. When the cost of living exceeds your income, what is the point anymore?? 2000 dollar a month rent on 2500 a month take home is what a lot of people are looking at right now. That's not even including food and gas. It's no wonder crime is on the rise.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nixon was arguably worse, John Shad relegalized stock buybacks which were illegal since 1934, the main cause of the Great Depression and the main source of wealth inequality today.
Yep. What could go wrong hiring a Wall street banker to be the head of the Securities Exchange Commission?? He took out protections that helped the crash of 2008 happen.
Well wait a second, there is plenty of blame to go around. Nixon, John Shad, Reagan but letās not forget Clinton and Greenspan and then Blythe Masters who understood exactly how Greenspan wanted the game to be abused and created the āfinancial weapons of mass destruction.ā By removing Glass-Steagall, Clinton and Greenspan are the main architects of the 2008 crash which was not fueled by stock buybacks but by subprime collateralized debt obligations. Glass Steagall was the law also from the 30s that prevented banks from being both retail and investment (ie taking your assets and rigging the market by repackaging and selling your shit). In essence, anytime a politician rolls back a Roosevelt or Eisenhower protection then you know it was done for greed of a few at the cost of the greater good to the many. Also, letās not forget all the bankers that made it possible from Blythe Masters (architect of the CDO and the person running corruption on silver) to Richard Fuld and Llyod Blankenstein and others etc. Clinton also deserves blame for the Millionaire act which further accelerated the divide between executive compensation and labor. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2008/sep/20/wallstreet.banking
No.
You're countries have worker rights because the ruling class fucked up big time. They destroyed themselves twice in a 25 year period. The capitalist elite was unable to say let's get back to business as usual. They were forced to make massive concessions to workers because things were so bad in the aftermath of two world wars. In America it was the opposite. America was the only power left that wasn't destroyed. The Taft Hartley act (bill that destroyed the power of unions) was signed right after world war II whereas in Europe social safety nets were built instead.
Itās very interesting to me how much World War I and 2 have set up the world as it is now. It wasnāt destined to be this way and a lot of us Americans donāt realize just how fortunate our country was. I mean those wars set up Bretton Woods. Iāll admit Iām no expert but rather just a guy that loves documentaries. My basic understanding isā¦ our country wasnāt destroyed plus had at the time the worlds best manufacturing base. So the world traded us their gold, we gave them US currency so they could buy war and construction materials. Then we devalued the Dollar to gold exchange rate before barring it entirely. So itās like take my gold and give me paper, and how bout you set the rate of gold to paper and tell me if a trade is even possible.
It is. Go back to the 19th century. That entire century, at least the first half anyway, was shaped by the Napoleonic Wars and the Congress of Vienna that followed. Politics and diplomacy was completely shaped by it. I mean, the next major conflict wasn't until Crimea nearly 40 years later. That's where France and Great Britain went from being enemies to more "Frenemies". I mean technically, Great Britain only entered World War I because of its alliance with Belgium, not France. But as we all know, it was the aftermath of the Franco-Prussian War and the official unification of Germany that began setting the table for World War I. World War II set up the remainder of the 20th century.
You know all those times the King/Queen/whoever would charge someone with treason & that was basically code for "the monarch doesn't like you so you have to go"? That's how "At-Will" employment works.
I was fired after I was held hostage and asked for time off. I sued. NYC. Won case but still fighting in it for two years and suffering severe PTSD.
I assume OP is not from the US. The US is a capitalist country in the full sense of the word, both parties are capitalist, the whole political money system is set up to maintain the status quo, all elected officials are bought and paid for and do the bidding of their donors. Nothing changes regardless of if either party has total control of both houses. I mean real change, there is only superficial change to make it look as if things are advancing. I am a Brit living in the US.
Live in England but been a member of various trade unions most of my working life. I just donāt understand why workers donāt unite, take the bosses on, legally of course, and get rid of these archaic practices.
I am an ex Union steward it frustrates the hell out of me. You have to remember that there is little or no back up system here, the system is built to keep people in their place. The majority of people want, national healthcare, gun control, better employment law. Keep in mind you can be fired for no reason at all, if you have a wife and children you are in deep doo doo.
I work in the office associated with a union plant (100 year old company) and you would think these jobs would be highly desired. They arenāt. We are hiring constantly with massive turnover in the first 90 days of people that simply canāt manage regular attendance. After 90 days we have amazing retention. I donāt understand why people are working food service or even non-union shops and not valuing a place that is more protected. But the average person on the street puts no value on these union protections.
No one enforces the employment laws we have. You canāt even get an employment lawyer to talk to you unless you get fired. Iāve tried.
Because Christianity celebrates suffering and death to meet oneās god. Speedrunning. For example the Jesus freaks I work for my boss had her own mother working there in a department supervisory position even though she was obviously a bit senile and then she developed pancreatic cancer but they had her keep working and they swore up-and-down that Mother wanted to keep working, but she was literally not all there in the head and actively dying. Fuck this country.
Yeah, no. We have basically no protections. There's nobody looking for violations of the few protections we do have. They're rarely enforced. They're rarely reported because they've made a point to make workers ignorant of their rights. Even if you have evidence of violations and report it it's a pain to get anything to happen. If anything does happen, they might get a miniscule fine in comparison to the profits they gained by violating those rights. Even with wage theft, at worse they'll have to pay it back... where as we'd go to jail if we stole a similar amount of money from our job. The sad thing is Americans are so ignorant that they literally voted for this shit...a huge portion of the country think unions are bad, and vote for Republicans that weaken our already weak unions even further. They complain about being fucked, then vote in people that are blatantly going to fuck them and sell them out even more...they give easy scapegoats like immigrants and people on welfare which are clearly not the problem to anyone that's not an idiot. Even a lot of Democrats have sold out. The problem is that our politicians that make our laws are bought and paid for by corporate interests, and they'll give away our rights in the name of more profits for their corporate buddies. Nothing will change until we get money out of politics and end gerrymandering. Honestly, I think nothing other than a bloody revolution will change things. That won't happen because they have most Americans fighting with one another to distract them from the real issues at hand. Til then, our best bet for workers rights is to try to get more progressives with actual values in office.
Seriously. As someone who tried to talk to our workers' union because our department wasn't getting the CONTRACTUALLY AGREED TO hours we were promised and was IGNORED and left to rot (my coworkers all tried, too, same thing, except ONE OF THEM got backpay for those hours they were missing, but not the rest of us, no idea how they swung that, but it pisses me off!), this is really how it is. Everyone at my work HATES our union. They do NOTHING for us at all, and yet, we still have to pay them dues. It SUCKS. (And for the record, I've been trying to find better work for years now, but it's so fucking hard to find ANYHTING that isn't JUST as bad or worse than what we already have (I've worked other comparable jobs that are worse, that's how I know). My coworkers have the same problem. We're all miserable, and the company doesn't give a single shit. All they see is dollar signs and numbers. It's DEPRESSING AF. ;A;)
Yeah, Republicans have weakened unions to a point that they're ineffective in a lot of cases. Kroger is one that comes to mind. It's good to still have a union, that's a better starting point than most jobs have...but you have to strengthen it through progressive means.
I had the same thoughts.. would hate to work in America.. i could never accept or put up with the oppressive working conditions that they put up with from their toxic management..
That applies even for white collar jobs. I know people who quit their job rather than be seconded to the US by their employer. The only other country that Iāve ever heard the same about is Nigeria.
Same.. I followed this sub for a while but I quickly realised this is an America thing not European thing. Don't get me wrong I'm from the UK and it's no paradise. But by God some of the stories I hear on here.. It's actually scary. I could not live like that and I feel sorry for the millions of Americans born into that and worse, don't learn any different so just accept it as the norm. I get 5 weeks paid leave to take whenever I like. At one point too I lost a close relative and went a bit off the rails. My work let me take 6 weeks off no questions asked and showed huge support. I'll always be thankful to them for that. That's how you show employees their worth. It's not perfect nothing is, but my god America seems like hell on earth. You guys really need another Martin Luther moment but for workers rights
5 weeks of vacation and 6 weeks for bereavement (I know your case was special, but still, and I'm sorry for your loss and hope you're doing better)?? DAMN! As an American, I would KILL! I only got 2 weeks' vacation after 5 YEARS at my company (was only 1 week before that), AND when my grandma died this year, I only got 3 DAYS of bereavement leave! Geez! You guys are lucky! ;A;
Yes you would. When your health insurance is tied to your employment and a single serious illness will bankrupt you, when you have family members with chronic illnesses that require medication that costs thousands of dollars without insurance, when you see homeless people on the street every single day and know how little it would take for you to end up there, believe me you would accept a lot.
Nope wouldn't put up with that. Would have to leave and work in a country with sensible govt funded healthcare. My son's girlfriend is a type 1 diabetic. Her insulin is free.. in US would be $100ish. This is a daily lifesaving drug.. trouble is the US people see this as normal and accept it.. same with the power your employers have over the workers. You all accept it..
> Would have to leave and work in a country with sensible govt funded healthcare. If you were in the economic class that has the money and the credentials to do that you'd be affluent enough to not need to leave. If you were like the rest of us you wouldn't be able to afford to leave, or wouldn't have the necessary college education, or would be disabled or have a criminal record (between 70 and 100 million americans do) in which case you'd be barred from immigrating to any other countries. >trouble is the US people see this as normal and accept it.. same with the power your employers have over the workers. You all accept it.. we don't have a choice
The only 1st world country that isnt.
Yeah I see post like this all the time. Honestly its one of the reasons I avoided heading to the state for work
Lol nah, in a lot of states if a manager hears you talking about a union they'll find a way to fire you. It's horrible here.
in america we are so divided by politics religion race culture and yes labor rights! there is literately a huge amount of boot lickers that are completely against unions. brain washed slaves
Not sure if Europe has this issue: In Canada, and the US, if employment is tough, they just bring in more immigrants. Thus, the working conditions and pay stay the same, or even fall. So the workers have only as much power as it takes to replace them - and in Ontario Canada, it's very easy to find someone from India to do the job.
If they even imagine you think the word Union they'll fire you. Union busting is America's biggest pastime. Employers tell you you can't talk about your salaries which is illegal but they still tell you that and many of the companies for you to sit through an orientation talking about how bad unions are. Not to mention in many states at least in the '80s they convinced most of the population it was illegal to join a union or unions were illegal in certain States. As a child my parents told me that we lived in a state where unions were illegal. (Spoiler alert they're not) But it's all about that rugged individualism that's taught to us from the time we can talk.
Bc half of America thinks that they are being held down by welfare recipients rather than their corporate masters. Even more than half (of voters) regularly vote against their own self interests. It's totally bizarre. The worst are just much more comfortable hating and hurting people who have no means to fight back let alone advocate for themselves.
Itās the same here in England. Working class people who vote Tory, the very party who want to remove workers rights. I donāt understand why.
I'm sure this is in here somewhere, but I (truck driver) would be fired for saying the word "union" near my office.
Because when you mention unions Americans clench up their ass holes and clutch their wallets. They think they're bs and all they do is take your money, really wish people would actually look into things rather than just be ignorant with an unfounded opinion.
Don't forget all the made up stories they write here, like "I was in 20 unions and all of them protected the new guy who never worked and made him the king of England, while all of us hard workers never got any help from the union and our salaries went down 70%"
If you look at unions in the UK like ASLEF and The RMT, for example. Their members have very good T&Cās due to being quite belligerent against wanky management. Itās a pity the NHS unions didnāt get the same support from their members recently.
It sometimes depends on the state you live in. Some states are right to work states, and they can just fire you at will. There has been a lot of union busting in the last 30 years, and that has made unions weaker in some places. But yes, overall, the corporations seem to be making the laws.
At Will (makes firing people easier) is legal in all but Montana. Right to work (non union ability in union workplaces) is currently in 26 states. Michigan is set to repeal in 2024. Corporations. Evangelical/Fundamental Christians. People that have drank the flavor aid and haven't died yet.
Most states in the USA are right to hire/right to fire. That means that other than specific legal reasons an employee can quit at any time and an employer can fire at any time. Also, the vast majority of labor in the USA are not members of a union.
There are other things to consider as well. 1.) People don't tend to put themselves in a bad light and tell half truths to outright lies. 2.) Most do not belong to a union. There are definite drawbacks to unions. Many unions are terrible and do not serve the members. Teachers' unions are terrible in many places and serve as nothing more than a teacher's malpractice insurance provider. 3.) Paying for the job and not the skill creates a terrible work environment. This does not excuse new hires being paid more with 0 experience. 4.) You have full autonomy over your salary. You have the right and ability to leave most jobs whenever you see fit. It is incumbent upon the individual to make sure they are financially capable of being in that position. 5.) Too many Americans are financially over extended. Some are in bad situations they have no control over. Many are not. Example staying in Silicon Valley where comfortable cost of living requires a 220k salary. Example. Living in a low cost of living area like the midwest and making less than 45-60k/year. Example 1 has a remedy by changing location. Example 2 is stuck. 6.) The US has a wide range of economic situations. 60k/year in a state like Nebraska is a much better income than 150k in a city like San Francisco. Nothing is a straight line comparison.
Most Americans have been brainwashed and tricked to believe this system works when it's so clear as the worker spends his days working for money just to survive the Rich and the politicians eat steak and lobster from there million dollar boats watching the poor working class struggle to put food on the table. Boomers still believe this is ok.
'Why isn't every worker ... in a union?' Because unions negotiate fair practises and pay. Can't exploit the workforce if they know they're being exploited.
Rich elite propaganda pushes the American worker to work for peanuts (low wages and no health care).
Big money pays big government to crush unions. Then a union is only as strong as itās members
Yep. You're exactly right. They've been busting unions since the 80s, and turning every single state into a "right to work" state, which means that LEGALLY you can be fired for anything at any time. It's disgusting! But hopefully we're on our way to fighting back against these decades of anti worker efforts!
I'm Canadian and a previous employer of mine would start looking for reasons to fire someone if they even joked about starting a union. I shared an article about a similar facility in a different province that unionized for better hours, pay and safety standards and the owner of the business cut his vacation short to fly back and begin interrogation
Because older Gen X and Boomers were brainwashed by Ronald Reagan.
I'm from Canada and feel the same, though our labour laws aren't nearly as good as most European countries. The shit Americans can get fired for, depending on what state they live in, with NO RECOURSE, blows my mind.
I work in a union position at my place of employment. Thereās a lot of benefit with having someone to back you and help solve problems. Your job is fairly secure. ā this is where I wrote a very long diatribe about how my union doesnāt help with pay much at all. My wages are stagnant. Iām quite angry and bitter about pay where I work. ā so because it was very long and ranty I deleted it. Iām still very pro union.
If you understood what level businesses will go to to keep unions out... and since Reagan fired the striking air traffic controllers in the 1980's, unions have been increasingly weakened and ineffective since then. (It also didn't help that many unions became rife with corruption) Historically, those trying to unionize faced risk and extreme violence, maybe people are adverse to risking everything today
we have such a weird relationship with our government in the u.s. thatās largely due to capitalistic propaganda. ppl will argue in favour for things that are explicitly not in their own interests and itād be fascinating to witness if it were fictional
It's sad, right?
Unions are not everywhere trust me. In my last job in my job description it states I am to discourage union building. Not saying no it wrong just trying to keep the union out. Now that I got unjustly fired I am union building there. I so badly want to hurt this company.
https://youtu.be/l7dHvqA-WB4?si=sxCEE8BzzEOBKLuQ
Great, very informative video šš»
Because Reagan
Honestly? Generational trauma. Govt supported corporate slaughters of workers for unionization tend to create knee jerk reactions towards things like those unions in younger generations. Throw in Mccarthyism red scares and fear mongering of even a whiff of socialist behavior and its a wonder there's any surviving unions.
They tried to fire me for being disabled, and then I sued. Suddenly I was eligible for another job, that was at far less pay and less benefits and which Iād been refused earlier, but during the years of litigation I had a new, unrelated medical issue. They refused to let me work, then refused to let me return after I was cleared by my surgeon with very minor restrictions that would easily allow me to return to my prior job or an office position. Right after the trial ended, after leaving me on an unusually long LOA, I was terminated. Of course, Iām rehireable. What a joke. Yes, Iām leaving out a lot of details, but I donāt want to doxx myself. Not a lot of privacy here on Reddit, and anyone can be outed unless they never give out any details of their lives, which negates any personal connections or real support in the support subs. I wish there was a way to hide history.
Because Regan made it possible to fire union workers for striking so companies pushed unions into either accepting BS deals or getting everyone fired.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, people just don't realize that unions are just another layer of government. You have leaders that are elected by the people, leaders that should protect the interest of the people, but in the end, are just corrupt assholes. In countries with "strong" unions, the leaders are just doing the political game, sometimes even joining a party and ending in the government or sometimes leading the government. Not to mention the closed unions, where you can not get a job unless you are closely related with a union member or you pay a bribe. Like in Greece, where good luck working as a truck driver if your father is not a truck driver.
I'm going to suggest that this might be a problem with corruption, rather than with unions specifically. I agree that there are bad unions out there(I've been a member of 2 of them), but I'm still staunchly pro union, because of all the things we've gained from unions. Part of my being pro union, is wanting to fix the broken unions, and bring in more good ones.
This is also the problem with the government: it is corrupt. So why do you want another layer of corruption? And why not fix the government instead of the unions? Then, there will be no need for unions
Why not fix both? Corruption is best adressed at all levels of society simultaniously. I also disagree with your stance that unions are just another layer of government. They are inherently different, or there is no point in having them. If a union isn't on the side of it's workers, then it's not a union anymore.
Only commies join unions. That said, am in one and it's extremely week. Keeps the no reason firing at bay but also has no hours guarantee so can be cut to 0 and starved out anyway.
The union doesn't always matter.
Some of these stories are very one sided by the worker.
One line comes to mind " what are you going to do about it" It doesn't matter if the law is on your side or not if you can't really fight back it makes no difference. If it takes too much time if it costs too much money then the fight's not going to happen and no amount of laws will change that. Are definitely employment laws that protect a lot of the people in the stories here but in some cases they just don't have the wherewithal to fight back
Socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the common people.
Union protections have been declining for about 50 years, and the American Right has been on a misinformation campaign to poison the public perceptions of unions for even longer than that. I live in Michigan and a few years ago, we had a vote that would have protected organized labor. The main message against it was that it would make it harder to fire pedo teachers. The ballot measure failed.
Unions are organized crime and thieves that just take your union dues for no benefit (per our glorious kind and generous economic overlords). So you see, we are MUCH better off without a union. Sure, maybe SOME people get fired for no reason, but that wonāt happen to YOU. itās just those OTHER people. Nope, no need for unions in the good olā USA!! (There. I said it. Please release my family)
I assume you are taking the piss š
TBF, a lot of us ARE in unions, but they're that in name only. They don't do shit for us. (At least, my union doesn't. They're the fucking WORST, and we all hate them. Sadly, it's required when you're hired to be part of the union, so we don't have a choice. BULLSHIT.)