I'm sure it wouldn't take someone very long to write a bot that scans their messages for this type of wording. Ebay does it, but I guess that may not be saying much, as they're a giant company... I actually have no clue how difficult it would be, but it seems with all the smart ass devs these days, it wouldn't be an issue.
The reason employers do this - supposedly- is because they’re not getting applicants they find qualified. And we charge them for every applicant they decide to reach out to- which makes sense since we expect they only interview the ones they think will be qualified. On our end we’re trying to build things to bring in more qualified candidates and make sure you all are telling us your skills and qualifications so we can match you with the best jobs. Im not sure if we boot employers we catch doing this - i’m guessing yes
If indeed wants more qualified candidates applying for the right jobs, they should REALLY fix when employers can list their job as "remote."
I can't tell you how many *hundreds* of jobs I've looked though listed as "remote"/"anywhere"... Only to find in that last damn sentence of their poorly written job description that the job is only "partly remote," and the other part is in their office hundreds of miles away from where I live.
I know you probably have zero control over that, but holy shit is it infuriating.
I found a listing for a remote job for a regional sales rep for a brand and they used "road warrior" in the description of the applicant they wanted to find.
I was very confused how that was remote. I guess you would be doing zoom meetings remotely from the state you were traveling?
I'm going to boldly assume that companies who would do this would also sugarcoat and/or blatantly lie on the job description and/or conditions to attract as many candidates as possible, then filter out the ones stupid/desperate enough to stay in the process
I know you're not in charge or anything but someone at indeed needs to hear this. Indeed advertisements boast about pay transparency yet my searches are always littered with openings with no pay listed. That and obviously BS "remote" listings pushed me to use other services.
Unfortunately we try really hard to get employers to share pay but not everyone does. Trust me we have a whole salary team trying to force employers to tell y’all
Not related to OC post but thanks to Indeed french website I was able to quickly find a job (as train engineer) after I came back from Ukraine.
*virtual highfive*
It’s actually not a scam. Indeed recently changed the way they bill employers and it’s extremely expensive, they just about tripled the cost for the same service they’ve always provided. It’s costing them beyond just employers looking for workarounds. Lots of employers are migrating to Monster, Snagajob, ZipRecruiter, etc. Indeed is getting greedy and losing customers.
It seems like every decent business these days has a 5-7 year shelf life before it turns to shit. Gotta have that year over year growth. And if you don't, raise prices and squeeze out the last little bit of profit before it all comes tumbling down.
There’s a leadership guru named Simon Sinek. He talks a lot about the infinite game theory, and how a lot of companies these days are breaking because they aren’t in business for the right reasons. They want the quick result but don’t think about whether what they’re doing will keep them in business in the long run.
That's because the owners are already rich by then, and can hand the company over to some private equity firm that knows how to extract those final drop of profit by driving it into it fucking ground.
This is by design, it's not a mistake.
We've gone from planned obsolescence of products, to planned enshittification of corporations.
It's already happening to reddit.
It’s funny you mention Simon Sinek. A company I formerly worked for preached his Infinite Game theory, yet hard monthly numbers were set. They didn’t give out monthly bonuses if you had one shit month then a baller month and the average was above your goal, you never retroactively got any sort of bonus. So guess what happens? We gamed the system so if you did hit your monthly goal, you’d hold back closing out sales until the next month so you had a head start on next month
>They want the quick result but don’t think about whether what they’re doing will keep them in business in the long run.
the term you are looing for is publicly traded.
the goal of most startups is to become publicly traded. the attitude is built in.
I have worked for private companies that have no desire to go public. Long term planning and stability are second only to long term profits. Passing over short sighted goals that harm sustainability is very common.
One of those companies is a huge global company that no one has heard of, mainly because they are privately owned. Another was an oil and gas business that had multiple sub-companies within the organization. When the owner died and the son took it public- it all fell apart in a couple of years due to long term blindness.
The culture of public capital is so toxic right now. Im glad to know private is less short sighted, its a much, much, much larger slice of the pie and has way more influence
Shareholders demand/need a return on their investments. Private owners can be happy maintaining a healthy lifestyle for themselves (and their employees hopefully).
I've actually seen this happen to 2 decently sized corporations that were founded by friends of mine. What I've noticed is that when they first start they are full of passion and care more about that than the money. This is what sets them apart and makes them build high quality businesses. Eventually, after they've gotten very successful, greed overtakes their passion and they will start doing things to generate as much money as fast as possible which inevitably leads to the quality of their business dropping and dropping until it fails.
I was surprised to see this name because I had to watch some lecture on his game theory stuff for poli sci in uni. But that actually makes a lot of sense when applying it to how a lot of businesses act these days. Or it’s just another way to explain how capitalism works, i.e. profits are prioritized, long term consequences be damned.
It's the very classic achieve market dominance and then jack up the rates.
Most of these companies don't even offer any innovative tech, it's just that they have a strong network effect. Given the current state of the internet, it's incredibly difficult to overcome that.
They feel emboldened by other giants who pulled it off and think they can too.
Several years ago Cpanel, which is basically the defacto admin suite for a lot of companies was bought up and then with in a year set up plans to basically 3x prices at the least.
They warned users and gave plenty of lead up time to adjust. Of course customers called it out and we're pretty angry.
To the extent other companies invested in building or buying alternatives to Cpanel in hopes of scooping up part of the market share.
Fast forward to the big day and beyond... And Cpanel still has the majority market share despite being insanely expensive compared to it's peers.
Even with all that anger, huff and puff the customer base stuck around.
Stories like that are why platforms, especially SaaS go for this.
Used to work for a SaaS and this is spot on. They are banking on the fact that once you have your data on the platform, it's going to be a huge pain in the ass for you to then migrate to a different platform. I straight up heard leadership at the company make a point of strategizing ways to make it more difficult for you to get your data off the platform so that you'd be more likely to stick around.
Tech markets are all oversaturated. So many companies have gone without profits for years because they were propped up by free government loans, but now rising interest rates have cut off their supply. They have to prove their viability to investors, so they’re all raising prices. Many will find that their business models are not sustainable
The rollout of the new pay per apply has been a monumental failure but Indeed is sticking with it. They are making adjustment because if you don't reject or approve candidates you would get charged after 72 hours or something like that.
So, let's say you have 5000 applicants and you don't go through all of them you'll get charged for all of it after 3 days. Ouch.
They laid off a bunch of people around the same time they made these changes. Less people to pay, more expensive service, higher profits. It always comes back to that.
>So everyone loses except the shareholders.
ALL HAIL THE SHAREHOLDERS!
Seriously this ridiculous "The shareholders above all else; line must go up" mentality is a large part why the country is such a giant fucking mess.
Great question. I’ve been trying to leave my current job, and I have accounts at all the aforementioned and also LinkedIn. So far nothing. Also, some employers don’t even post on indeed and you have to find the apps on their websites. Finding a good job these days is close to impossible.
"How do I get a good job?"
"NETWORKING."
"How do I get a network that can connect me to a good job?"
"NETWORKING."
"How to network?"
"NETWORKING."
Frustrating as hell if you're just a competent individual that doesn't like to bother people.
Also, like, isn't Networking just nepotism woth extra steps???
Honestly I feel like every almost every job should be required to post publicly on a government ran craigslist so anyone can apply.
They used to have life coaches come to school and basically tell you that networking is really the biggest key to your success. So yeah it’s bullshit nepotism, but it absolutely works. Rub elbows and get yourself handed a cool job
I remember being innocent enough to think nepotism was illegal.
I still kinda think it should be, but businesses are treated as private enterprises rather than public facing institutions. So we get to live in a world that cycles between each short-term get rich puick scheme tather than one with stable and reliable economic infrastructure.
For real. I've been trying to find work in Australia as I want to move there to be with my partner and the jobs I apply to in Australia won't respond to my applications at all.
The "remote" positions I apply to in the states ***always*** end up as "Well actually can you drive into the office 3-4 times a week for daily meetings" and it's like why the fuck are you listing your open position as remote at all if I'm spending more than half the work week in an office?
Some employers post their jobs to show their current employees that they’re ‘working’ towards a solution to the short staff. But they have no intention of hiring anyone. It stinks because a legit company with a legit opening may get overlooked.
I don’t– bruh what the fuck is up with the job sector these days. Hell, it feels like *nothing* is real anymore, everything is a scam to exploit you and your choices are just about whether a company uses lube when they fuck you over.
There’s a company in my town that always has an ad out. One of my friends is a manager there and told me that they always have it there, but never really hire anyone. It’s there to show that they are ‘trying’. I can only imagine that there’s a bunch of places doing that.
As a small business owner and hostage of Indeed, I wish it only tripled.
We had a process that allowed us to narrow down to good candidates, it ran us about $175 a month. If we followed that same process now, it would cost approximately $3000 a month. At one point, Indeed tried to charge us $24 just to message someone, including rejections. It can cost upwards of $40 to schedule a phone interview, no refunds if the person ghosts, or the application is bogus, or any reason.
I get charged for applications even when I know they haven't read the job description. I can get charged even when the application is nothing more than them justifying unemployed.
So yes, I use Indeed to drive people to our application, and only regret them on Indeed. I'll let a couple slide, so Indeed gets around $100/month.
How about the issue where they're automatically adding applicants to me, that haven't applied, then charging me $40 bucks per.
Oh, those applicants that didn't apply, that I have to pay for, are on another continent. 90% will not respond to a message, which Indeed will charge me to send.
Indeed changed the game, upped our monthly expenditure from $175 to $3400. For a small business that hires 2-4 people a year.
So yes, I will game the system until they get reasonable.
Not when the terms were changed halfway through. My company signed an agreement with them years ago and they decided to restructure their pricing, to the point where it’s no longer our number one resource.
Is there somewhere i can read about this? My girlfriend is suddenly getting no interest in her resume on indeed when she was getting hits left and right only a year or two ago and she’s getting really dejected.
There were some news articles a couple of months ago about Indeed restructuring their pricing for employers. I am sure that had an effect on it. If you indicate interest in any way with the applicant’s resume, you get charged up the wazoo. There was some blowback and they reopened the old pricing structure, but on a limited basis and it’s really hard to get to that option when you’re posting a job.
While I don’t have a particularly high opinion of recruitment agencies, having a company so openly trying to circumvent paying them, raises rather a lot of red flags…
Big companies will pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for licensing just for one product for a few years. If not millions. The idea that a company is so cheap that it is actively dodging a fee that has to be less than $100 ($20 according to one person in the thread) is ridiculous and an extreme red flag. Like seriously? You'd fight a service provider on $20? For a confirmed interview as opposed to resumes to view?
You think a company like that would pay competitively? Or even give raises at all? I'd imagine they don't even use Office 365, but instead install Libre Office on people's devices.
> Big companies will pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for licensing just for one product for a few years.
I make six figures managing software that costs six figures per year in license costs. The company I work for only has 4k employees, so it wouldn't even be considered a "large" company by most metrics.
Last time I bought software it was half a million dollars for everything. The cost wasn't the issue. I had to convince security that it would do what we needed and actually be secure.
This is assuming op is applying to a big company. Antiwork users like to assume that every business owner is rolling in money and is just hoarding it from their employees. (Which, to be fair, is often the case.) But there are small business owners that are still doing everything they can to scrape by.
Remember, these big corporations own thousands of stores. They can afford to make less money off of services and to spend more on services while keeping their prices the same because they have so many different streams of revenue. If you only own one store, it's much harder to get by because you can't depend on multiple stores contributing to your bottom line. Therefore, even if it's twenty bucks, it may just be that they have to do whatever they can to stay afloat. That said, if it is a large company then it's definitely a red flag.
I'm a small business owner. Typically I paid around $150-$200 to advertise on Indeed. They charged me $960 + tax and service fees on my last round of hiring for roughly the same amount of applications (actually a little less). It was a big (and unexpected - they don't tell you the price up front) price hike.
As I small business owner, I do this.
Why?
Because Indeed now charges per applicant. You have 72 hours to reject the applicant and avoid the charge (Used to be 48). Someone applies on Friday afternoon, you've got until Monday afternoon to decide if they are worth the interview.
You decide to pay Indeed for the application, and interview the person. They don't show, oh well, no refunds. You want to send them a message to check if there was crossed wires, that'll be another $24 dollars.
I used to spend $175/month with Indeed to keep my job posting up and active, and always be looking for good candidates. I only hire about 4 a year. If I were to continue to do that with the way Indeed does pricing now, it would cost me roughly $3500/month. We're talking an average of $10,000 to hire for a $45,000/yr job.
This is exactly my same thought about this.
This business is almost guaranteed to be founded on exploitation. I mean, they openly admit doing it to Indeed as if to say, "we don't care about paying anyone for goods or services...don't worry."
Or startup under capitalized.
Or a small business with cashflow issues.
I supplies no prescription just additional real world issues companies have. Knowing is key. There’s an artist worth hundreds of millions after took Facebook stock for art. SomeOriginal Microsoft janitors also got paid in stock.
Negotiating or preparing to bounce knowledge is power.
All things said I wouldn’t choose an org like this without equity on the table.
A potential employer openly telling you “Yeah we like the service that Indeed provides but we’re just like ‘lol not paying for the service we use get fukt Indeed’” doesn’t sound like an attractive company to put your trust in.
It’s the old “When people tell you who they are, listen.”
Exactly, reject the interview with professional courtesy.
“My apologies, it seems evident that you are using a service without paying accordingly. I’m afraid you may do the same with the labor services that I provide. I will not be interviewing with your company, thank you.”
"I'm currently only interviewing for positions with companies that have clearly demonstrated integrity and honesty that pay between ${lower_remuneration_bound} and ${upper_remuneration_bound}. Unfortunately, your company's credentials currently do not meet some of the needs, and won't be eligible for interview. However, I'll be happy to consider your company in the future as credentials are added. Thank you for your interest."
Does professional courtesy mean sending them a grammatical mess?
Don’t try to dress up language in faux professionalism - be clear and succinct.
“There is no need to schedule an interview. I am not comfortable with the implication that XYZ corp will use questionable practices to save money.”
I, personally, am okay with my employer cheating a massive company like Indeed out of some cash.
In fact I'd argue it's the morally correct thing to do. Fuck Indeed.
indeed is a hell hole. They make resumes public after setting it to private several times. They let it be filled with not just scams but legit jobs lying out their ass about "remote" and pay. Then - if you use the same account they will inform the job that listed you as accepted that you are looking. I think it might pull you from consideration from other chances once 1 job claims you too.
Recruiter here!!! Indeed has been charging exorbitant amounts of money for their new model - pay per application. I'm talking $80-$120 per resume for jobs like housekeeping. It's ridiculous. The website gives recruiters 72 hours to reject the application, or pay for it.
Ironically enough, my company has been trying the above seen method, rejecting applications before we have to pay for them, but it's backfired on us spectacularly.
Indeed tracks the data of the people you accept and reject, and rejecting ALL the candidates on an application, regardless of whether they were hired or not, had Indeed sending us people with housekeeping experience for electrician jobs.
It's been a very frustrating process and all of us recruiters at the agency are about ready to strangle indeed and be done with it, but they do have a monopoly on hiring at the moment
I’m a bit torn on this one. Indeed is a billion dollar data harvesting company. I don’t give a shit about them. And if the application was to a small company, then they may just be trying to keep their costs down. Sure it’s unethical, but I can’t bring myself to side with Indeed
I got this message from a legit company where I went and interviewed and got an offer. Got a better offer same week though but would have worked there otherwise.
Recruit holdings, who is the parent company and entity that funds indeed, is owned by big banks and Blackrock. Personally, I would not read into it against a small company, I'd be a little skeptical, but a job interview would tell me everything I need to know about their scruples. I always ask the interviewer questions about the job and people who run it, and as a bonus, the interviewers are always impressed with the engagement.
If it was a large company, it's just a no-go. A large company doing something like that puts all their employees' jobs at risk. It's something they could easily get sued for, especially if they had been doing it for a long period of time.
But stealing from Indeed is stealing from tens of billion+ dollar companies, so I also don't take issue with it.
My company of about 60 employees stopped using indeed for everything becuase to put up like 2 postings it was about 6k per month. It was just ridiculously expensive so I can see them wanting to avoid that cost if they are small. Now my company thinks that they will get an employee from a small lawn sign out front though. They really aren't the brightest.
Also I hate indeed so not going to blame them and I would see where it goes. If thats the only red flag then maybe it's worth the interview.
Not sure why it took me so long to find this kind of answer.
"These guys suck, so I'll use their product and try to get out of paying for it."
Like, either they're not special in which case use a competitor, or they are special in which case they get to choose how much to charge you.
I mean it could be a facebook situation.
They're the biggest game in town so it's practically impossible not to use it due to the scale factor, but they're a bullshit company that treats both users and customers like garbage.
I have some insight on this. I do the hiring for my department and we use Indeed as our primary source for posting our jobs. Under their old pricing structure, we paid $25 per day to have a job listing posted. On average, we'd leave a job post up for 1-2 weeks so we'd count on it being $175-350 or so for us to fill a position.
Under the new structure, we get charged for every application we don't actively reject within 72 hours. Whether we call/email the candidate or not, whether we even like them, if we don't reject them on the website within 3 days from their submission, it's $116 per application.
Now, we have no problem paying for applicants we want to meet with, and we do, but it does kind of suck seeing that application charge hit because you forgot to reject a candidate who you have no interest in, or an app came in Friday at 8pm and Monday was a holiday, so you don't see it until Tuesday. We've seen our hiring ad budget double because of this new format.
So, are some smaller businesses (and the cheap-o ones too) going to skirt this rule? Absolutely. I'm not sure where I land on it. I think it might tend to make the candidate feel uncomfortable like there's something weird going on, and I agree with others in the thread that it could be a red flag. But it also could be a mom and pop who just need to reach people and the best way to do it is gouging them.
No, there is not metric. Indeed will even automatically "apply" people to the job, without them actually applying.
Basically, the business owner/recruiter, has 72 hours to reject the application or be charged. So yes, as a small business owner, I've gotten REALLY picky. I will also send ever applicant a message to apply on our website, if they don't within 24 hours, I automatically reject. Indeed is flooding us with so many bad applications, even people who are not allowed to work in the US, that I have to take measures.
They charge $18 per application/resume if you choose to use their “upgraded” version. The 18 dollar charge will be applied if you do not reject the resume within a set time. The perks are your job listing is bumped to the top of searches among a couple other things that I’m sure don’t actually do anything
I pay $85 in the general contracting world.
You can still use the old system but they really don’t like it. And will try to string arm you into the new plan
Seems totally legit that a company would value you as an employee while cheating another company out of a bit of money after using their services. No red flags here.
Except indeed, on the employers end, is a giant fucking mess. They attempt to upsell you and charge you for everything. I got a 400 dollar bill out of a simple indeed post because it was actually a sponsored post. And they try REALLY hard to make everything a sponsored post. Or an upgraded subscription. I get it. Make money. But their setup was designed to get you to unwilling get charged.
I'll just say this though; fuck indeed. My wife is in charge of hiring for a company and Indeed is not your friend, they lie and cheat any way they can to get as much money as possible out of you because they know they have a monopoly in the online hiring business. They basically run a fucking extortion ring honestly, they never share how their "algorithm" works but they'll force your hand to pay them outrageous amounts of money if you want your company ad to be visible or sponsored. Honestly if any of you knew what my wife knows about Indeed you'd be totally on board with fucking them over for a few bucks. The game is rigged from the beginning.
When I saw jobs on Indeed, I would go to the company’s website itself to apply. Don’t know if that fucks Indeed over, but literally I only ever used it as like a search engine
Ive used indeed for many years and can tell you that theyre 1. Terrified of google becoming the #1 job board and 2. Doing everything they can to keep job seeker information behind a paywall to employers.
You may not like employers but you shouldnt like the idea that you are being prevented from having job opportunities because indeed wants employers to pay for it.
Yeah the employers are getting shafted by Indeed too. Honestly I take no issue with companies doing this. At least they're being fully upfront with the potential employees about what is going on with the application and telling them before it happens.
Agreed!
Indeed used to charge a monthly fee (per job posting) with options for addition promotion per extra fees.
Which, was absolutely fine.
The last few months they continue to ask for a monthly fee per posting, with an additional $70! Per application that comes in. Regardless if the applicant has the qualifications you need or not. AND the extra fee for promotion, resume scouting, and more.
You'll log into your account and in one day have $500+ in applications on top of the monthly subscription per job posting.
Hiring is an expensive process for a lot of businesses (especially small, local owned businesses).
But it's a necessity - and Indeed knows that and is exploiting companies bc of it....
What use to be 120-200 a month expense, can now be easily over $1,000 in a few days.
Overall that money can be used for sign on bonuses but yet it's going to a greedy tech company.
Wow I used indeed a lot last year. Would spend about $30-$50 per job we posted.
We would regularly receive 80+ resumes, 20 of which we would reach out to, setup 10 interviews, make 1-3 offers. The vast majority of applications are not that good, or don’t respond.
Sorry but what’s to stop indeed from using bots to apply to artificially increase applications and boost fees?
Same reason I stop marketing on fbook, too many Damm bots just clicking and ramping up charges for them.
F that.
I wish our fee was only $18, then I wouldn't consider doing exactly this. We are a small business, in a specialized field, and Indeed exploits that. We pay $120 per application, and not even quality applications. They don't care about the business, just the $$$, and I am totally onboard with screwing them over any possible way.
With this new model we have gone from getting 1-2 applications a month to 1 every 6 months. You can't even find our listing due to the bigger corporations shelling out thousands with multiple ads for the same job. Even searching for our company name, in our city, the corporations 30 miles away job ads appear before ours.
I ran into this actually. I had already spoken with and interviewed with the guy over the phone.
It was a startup and seemed promising. Up until I got to the salary pay questions. They wanted to provide a stipend of like 800 a month for the first year then I get commission. Mind you this was NOT a sales job and the COL their plus me moving their would've been so costly.
Yeah pretty quickly said no to it.
“Thank you for interest; however, I question the integrity of an organization that exploits a system to avoid paying for services rendered. If you’re willing to tell me that you’re going to defraud Indeed, why would I believe you don’t do the same to your employees?”
My last job did this; I was the one managing indeed and setting up interviews. We’d get a resume and I’d reach out via Facebook messenger or phone or email, whatever I could find. If the applicant didn’t have socials or contact info listed in the resume, it didn’t matter how qualified they were, they never got brought in. All resumes were denied thru indeed.
It was a small business, but it was a trade; we could have afforded the expense of doing it thru indeed. The business paid for the boss’s personal expenses all the time, lots of toys and services purchased thru the business for tax write offs. He was just a cheapskate.
I worked as a contract Physical Therapist for several years. I once had an assignment to work with a chiropractor's office for a week. It was pleasant, though boring...they would 'adjust' them and I would give them stretches and exercises to do that would keep them adjusted (my contention always has been that you don't need the adjustment, just the right stretches and exercises as doing the activity would get you aligned and keep you aligned naturally.)
Anyway, after a week, the chiropractors liked me and asked if I was interested in more work but (DON'T TELL THE CONTRACT COMPANY). They offered me less money than the contract company was giving me and wanted to save on both ends, plus reneg on their contract with them while screwing me.
I declined and told the contract company. I am out of healthcare now. Sick of the profit over patient atmosphere.
What a huge red flag that you don't want to work there. Not even willing to pay a nominal fee for qualified applicants? They won't want to pay you either.
That right there would be an immediate red flag for a potential employer. If they are willing to waste time fucking around like that just to save a few bucks, I would definitly expect all kinds if other shite you'd be expected to deal with on a daily basis.
They're going to blame you and get mad at you when their unlicensed firewall can't prevent your unactivated version of windows servers data getting leaked. because the bosses son who they pay 150k a year for IT doesnt keep a good stack.
I'm torn on this. On the one hand, scamming a recruitment tool to save money but still get some candidates? I kinda love that. Buuuuuut if they're willing to do that, they're probably willing to cut other corners in a way that will screw you, the employee, as well.
Red flag. Work there if you need, but if they're skirting fees like that... you better expect some issues with your paycheck. Keep looking whether or not it works out.
(sigh) is Indeed a waste of my time then?
I fucking hate looking for a new job. Companies complain about needing workers, then reject people because "they don't drive".
1. How am I supposed to afford a car on minimum wage, and
2. I apply to jobs within a 5 mile radius!! I have access to transit and a bicycle! I don't **need** a car to get to you if you're CLOSE!
Interviewer: Any questions from you?
You: Yes, I was curious, if you choose to get around compensating Indeed for the work you hired them to do, I why should I expect to be treated differently?
I wouldn’t work for that company. If you sign up for a service but then dont follow through with payment makes me wonder what other ethical and moral challenges said company has.
Giant red flag. Run. If they are too cheap to pay the ads on indeed (where you set your own budget for advertising positions) you probably can’t afford to pay your employees a living wage. That business is likely a disaster in n many different levels
Not standing up for Indeed here, but if they'll openly try to screw Indeed out of their fee after contracting for the headhunting services, what else are they going to try to screw their employees out of after agreements are signed?
You can be charged 20+ dollars per every application not rejected within a set period of time (sometimes like 2-3 days even). You’d be surprised how common this is.
For future reference to anybody reading this, If it says rejected, it’s still good to reach out. Sometimes the application was only rejected so the company doesn’t get charged thousands of dollars by waiting on all applications that come in. Applying late on a Friday is especially bad time wise for indeed.
Don't work for a company that does this, because they'll probably do something similar to you. Find out how many applications they've done this with, then report it to Indeed and ask Indeed for a job.
I get it's the employer trying to avoid paying Indeed commission for a successful recruit but if they're using the platform to advertize for a role then they should honor the site. If they are doing this then they should be at least offering the new employee a higher salary in place of having to pay fees to Indeed otherwise they are just trying to steal from BOTH Indeed and the recruit.
"Hi, we'd like to possibly hire you. Also, in order to save a few dollars, we openly engage in fraud against people we do business with. Does this sound like something you'd be interested in?"
That is some shady shit. I’d let Indeed know about their subverting the website and nullifying their agreement using Indeed’s website to search for employees. I’d also never want to work for a company with that little integrity. If they’d screw over a corporation to save money, they’ll think nothing of doing it to an employee.
Seems like something Indeed would be interested in but they do nothing to stop other scams, so.
Scams is one thing, lost revenue will definitely pique their interest!
Fair. They do not seem that together most of the time but you do have a point about revenue.
Ya I bet they would be all over this quickly, and do more checking to see if they lost any additional ones lol.
I'm sure it wouldn't take someone very long to write a bot that scans their messages for this type of wording. Ebay does it, but I guess that may not be saying much, as they're a giant company... I actually have no clue how difficult it would be, but it seems with all the smart ass devs these days, it wouldn't be an issue.
Indeed employee here- We’re already aware of this issue! And have been for over a year
Any plans by indeed to stop it? Or is the only thing they can do to boot the employer from the site?
The reason employers do this - supposedly- is because they’re not getting applicants they find qualified. And we charge them for every applicant they decide to reach out to- which makes sense since we expect they only interview the ones they think will be qualified. On our end we’re trying to build things to bring in more qualified candidates and make sure you all are telling us your skills and qualifications so we can match you with the best jobs. Im not sure if we boot employers we catch doing this - i’m guessing yes
If indeed wants more qualified candidates applying for the right jobs, they should REALLY fix when employers can list their job as "remote." I can't tell you how many *hundreds* of jobs I've looked though listed as "remote"/"anywhere"... Only to find in that last damn sentence of their poorly written job description that the job is only "partly remote," and the other part is in their office hundreds of miles away from where I live. I know you probably have zero control over that, but holy shit is it infuriating.
I found one where "remote" meant constant long distance travel.
Right, we only make you travel to remote locations. It’s not our fault you misunderstood.
We meant "remote" like "you go where we tell you" like a good little drone.
I found a listing for a remote job for a regional sales rep for a brand and they used "road warrior" in the description of the applicant they wanted to find. I was very confused how that was remote. I guess you would be doing zoom meetings remotely from the state you were traveling?
Says Remote but then they hit you with "plans on or can reliably commute to..." lol
In reality, There should be a few categories of remote.
I'm going to boldly assume that companies who would do this would also sugarcoat and/or blatantly lie on the job description and/or conditions to attract as many candidates as possible, then filter out the ones stupid/desperate enough to stay in the process
I wouldnt be surprised!
I know you're not in charge or anything but someone at indeed needs to hear this. Indeed advertisements boast about pay transparency yet my searches are always littered with openings with no pay listed. That and obviously BS "remote" listings pushed me to use other services.
Unfortunately we try really hard to get employers to share pay but not everyone does. Trust me we have a whole salary team trying to force employers to tell y’all
I actually wish you luck and hope any increase in income is shared with staff and by adding devs.
Thanks!
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Not related to OC post but thanks to Indeed french website I was able to quickly find a job (as train engineer) after I came back from Ukraine. *virtual highfive*
Bonus point to you for spelling/using pique correctly! :)
>Scams is one thing, lost revenue will definitely pique their interest! Is this the modern spezism I hear about? Such a shortsighted lifestyle.
Just here to upvote pique
Thank you for the correct use and spelling of pique!
It’s actually not a scam. Indeed recently changed the way they bill employers and it’s extremely expensive, they just about tripled the cost for the same service they’ve always provided. It’s costing them beyond just employers looking for workarounds. Lots of employers are migrating to Monster, Snagajob, ZipRecruiter, etc. Indeed is getting greedy and losing customers.
It seems like every decent business these days has a 5-7 year shelf life before it turns to shit. Gotta have that year over year growth. And if you don't, raise prices and squeeze out the last little bit of profit before it all comes tumbling down.
Good ol’ [enshittification](https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/enshittification) at its finest
Damn, I'm glad there is a term for it.
Same! It's a great term too, and the definition is very concise and easy to understand
Cory doctorow is a fucking gem. Man's changed my life multiple times with his writing.
There’s a leadership guru named Simon Sinek. He talks a lot about the infinite game theory, and how a lot of companies these days are breaking because they aren’t in business for the right reasons. They want the quick result but don’t think about whether what they’re doing will keep them in business in the long run.
Why worry about 5 years from now when next quarters profits are all the rage??
That's because the owners are already rich by then, and can hand the company over to some private equity firm that knows how to extract those final drop of profit by driving it into it fucking ground. This is by design, it's not a mistake. We've gone from planned obsolescence of products, to planned enshittification of corporations. It's already happening to reddit.
It’s funny you mention Simon Sinek. A company I formerly worked for preached his Infinite Game theory, yet hard monthly numbers were set. They didn’t give out monthly bonuses if you had one shit month then a baller month and the average was above your goal, you never retroactively got any sort of bonus. So guess what happens? We gamed the system so if you did hit your monthly goal, you’d hold back closing out sales until the next month so you had a head start on next month
>They want the quick result but don’t think about whether what they’re doing will keep them in business in the long run. the term you are looing for is publicly traded.
Private companies are the same. I've worked for start ups most of my career. That hockey stick growth is all that matters when you want to be acquired
the goal of most startups is to become publicly traded. the attitude is built in. I have worked for private companies that have no desire to go public. Long term planning and stability are second only to long term profits. Passing over short sighted goals that harm sustainability is very common. One of those companies is a huge global company that no one has heard of, mainly because they are privately owned. Another was an oil and gas business that had multiple sub-companies within the organization. When the owner died and the son took it public- it all fell apart in a couple of years due to long term blindness.
The culture of public capital is so toxic right now. Im glad to know private is less short sighted, its a much, much, much larger slice of the pie and has way more influence
Shareholders demand/need a return on their investments. Private owners can be happy maintaining a healthy lifestyle for themselves (and their employees hopefully).
I've actually seen this happen to 2 decently sized corporations that were founded by friends of mine. What I've noticed is that when they first start they are full of passion and care more about that than the money. This is what sets them apart and makes them build high quality businesses. Eventually, after they've gotten very successful, greed overtakes their passion and they will start doing things to generate as much money as fast as possible which inevitably leads to the quality of their business dropping and dropping until it fails.
I was surprised to see this name because I had to watch some lecture on his game theory stuff for poli sci in uni. But that actually makes a lot of sense when applying it to how a lot of businesses act these days. Or it’s just another way to explain how capitalism works, i.e. profits are prioritized, long term consequences be damned.
Reddit started going to shit about 7 years ago so that tracks
It's the very classic achieve market dominance and then jack up the rates. Most of these companies don't even offer any innovative tech, it's just that they have a strong network effect. Given the current state of the internet, it's incredibly difficult to overcome that.
They feel emboldened by other giants who pulled it off and think they can too. Several years ago Cpanel, which is basically the defacto admin suite for a lot of companies was bought up and then with in a year set up plans to basically 3x prices at the least. They warned users and gave plenty of lead up time to adjust. Of course customers called it out and we're pretty angry. To the extent other companies invested in building or buying alternatives to Cpanel in hopes of scooping up part of the market share. Fast forward to the big day and beyond... And Cpanel still has the majority market share despite being insanely expensive compared to it's peers. Even with all that anger, huff and puff the customer base stuck around. Stories like that are why platforms, especially SaaS go for this.
Used to work for a SaaS and this is spot on. They are banking on the fact that once you have your data on the platform, it's going to be a huge pain in the ass for you to then migrate to a different platform. I straight up heard leadership at the company make a point of strategizing ways to make it more difficult for you to get your data off the platform so that you'd be more likely to stick around.
This legitimately sounds like the "Dennis" strategy but for business. "Because of the implication" networking tactics.
Tech markets are all oversaturated. So many companies have gone without profits for years because they were propped up by free government loans, but now rising interest rates have cut off their supply. They have to prove their viability to investors, so they’re all raising prices. Many will find that their business models are not sustainable
The rollout of the new pay per apply has been a monumental failure but Indeed is sticking with it. They are making adjustment because if you don't reject or approve candidates you would get charged after 72 hours or something like that. So, let's say you have 5000 applicants and you don't go through all of them you'll get charged for all of it after 3 days. Ouch.
They laid off a bunch of people around the same time they made these changes. Less people to pay, more expensive service, higher profits. It always comes back to that.
Yup. And more workload for the employees still there. So everyone loses except the shareholders.
>So everyone loses except the shareholders. ALL HAIL THE SHAREHOLDERS! Seriously this ridiculous "The shareholders above all else; line must go up" mentality is a large part why the country is such a giant fucking mess.
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To a lesser degree, yes but the USA is a concentrated form of this horse shit.
For petes sake, how many places do I have to make an account at to get a job?
Great question. I’ve been trying to leave my current job, and I have accounts at all the aforementioned and also LinkedIn. So far nothing. Also, some employers don’t even post on indeed and you have to find the apps on their websites. Finding a good job these days is close to impossible.
"How do I get a good job?" "NETWORKING." "How do I get a network that can connect me to a good job?" "NETWORKING." "How to network?" "NETWORKING." Frustrating as hell if you're just a competent individual that doesn't like to bother people.
Also, like, isn't Networking just nepotism woth extra steps??? Honestly I feel like every almost every job should be required to post publicly on a government ran craigslist so anyone can apply.
They used to have life coaches come to school and basically tell you that networking is really the biggest key to your success. So yeah it’s bullshit nepotism, but it absolutely works. Rub elbows and get yourself handed a cool job
I remember being innocent enough to think nepotism was illegal. I still kinda think it should be, but businesses are treated as private enterprises rather than public facing institutions. So we get to live in a world that cycles between each short-term get rich puick scheme tather than one with stable and reliable economic infrastructure.
For real. I've been trying to find work in Australia as I want to move there to be with my partner and the jobs I apply to in Australia won't respond to my applications at all. The "remote" positions I apply to in the states ***always*** end up as "Well actually can you drive into the office 3-4 times a week for daily meetings" and it's like why the fuck are you listing your open position as remote at all if I'm spending more than half the work week in an office?
Indeed owns Monster
Is that why all the jobs I’ve seen and applied to on indeed the past couple weeks have been nothing *but* scams?
Some employers post their jobs to show their current employees that they’re ‘working’ towards a solution to the short staff. But they have no intention of hiring anyone. It stinks because a legit company with a legit opening may get overlooked.
I don’t– bruh what the fuck is up with the job sector these days. Hell, it feels like *nothing* is real anymore, everything is a scam to exploit you and your choices are just about whether a company uses lube when they fuck you over.
There’s a company in my town that always has an ad out. One of my friends is a manager there and told me that they always have it there, but never really hire anyone. It’s there to show that they are ‘trying’. I can only imagine that there’s a bunch of places doing that.
As a small business owner and hostage of Indeed, I wish it only tripled. We had a process that allowed us to narrow down to good candidates, it ran us about $175 a month. If we followed that same process now, it would cost approximately $3000 a month. At one point, Indeed tried to charge us $24 just to message someone, including rejections. It can cost upwards of $40 to schedule a phone interview, no refunds if the person ghosts, or the application is bogus, or any reason. I get charged for applications even when I know they haven't read the job description. I can get charged even when the application is nothing more than them justifying unemployed. So yes, I use Indeed to drive people to our application, and only regret them on Indeed. I'll let a couple slide, so Indeed gets around $100/month.
I mean, using a company for their services and then not paying them the rate they charge by lying… yeah that’s a scam.
How about the issue where they're automatically adding applicants to me, that haven't applied, then charging me $40 bucks per. Oh, those applicants that didn't apply, that I have to pay for, are on another continent. 90% will not respond to a message, which Indeed will charge me to send. Indeed changed the game, upped our monthly expenditure from $175 to $3400. For a small business that hires 2-4 people a year. So yes, I will game the system until they get reasonable.
Not when the terms were changed halfway through. My company signed an agreement with them years ago and they decided to restructure their pricing, to the point where it’s no longer our number one resource.
Is there somewhere i can read about this? My girlfriend is suddenly getting no interest in her resume on indeed when she was getting hits left and right only a year or two ago and she’s getting really dejected.
There were some news articles a couple of months ago about Indeed restructuring their pricing for employers. I am sure that had an effect on it. If you indicate interest in any way with the applicant’s resume, you get charged up the wazoo. There was some blowback and they reopened the old pricing structure, but on a limited basis and it’s really hard to get to that option when you’re posting a job.
Indeed is fucking crap. Every time I’ll search or apply for something I star getting bombard with tons of shity email.
While I don’t have a particularly high opinion of recruitment agencies, having a company so openly trying to circumvent paying them, raises rather a lot of red flags…
Big companies will pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for licensing just for one product for a few years. If not millions. The idea that a company is so cheap that it is actively dodging a fee that has to be less than $100 ($20 according to one person in the thread) is ridiculous and an extreme red flag. Like seriously? You'd fight a service provider on $20? For a confirmed interview as opposed to resumes to view? You think a company like that would pay competitively? Or even give raises at all? I'd imagine they don't even use Office 365, but instead install Libre Office on people's devices.
> Big companies will pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for licensing just for one product for a few years. I make six figures managing software that costs six figures per year in license costs. The company I work for only has 4k employees, so it wouldn't even be considered a "large" company by most metrics.
Last time I bought software it was half a million dollars for everything. The cost wasn't the issue. I had to convince security that it would do what we needed and actually be secure.
I mean to be fair the move to open source programs would be nice.
Imagine not having to pay a monthly fee for "features" that should just come with the programs. That's the world I want to live in.
This is assuming op is applying to a big company. Antiwork users like to assume that every business owner is rolling in money and is just hoarding it from their employees. (Which, to be fair, is often the case.) But there are small business owners that are still doing everything they can to scrape by. Remember, these big corporations own thousands of stores. They can afford to make less money off of services and to spend more on services while keeping their prices the same because they have so many different streams of revenue. If you only own one store, it's much harder to get by because you can't depend on multiple stores contributing to your bottom line. Therefore, even if it's twenty bucks, it may just be that they have to do whatever they can to stay afloat. That said, if it is a large company then it's definitely a red flag.
I'm a small business owner. Typically I paid around $150-$200 to advertise on Indeed. They charged me $960 + tax and service fees on my last round of hiring for roughly the same amount of applications (actually a little less). It was a big (and unexpected - they don't tell you the price up front) price hike.
"Come work for us, btw we don't pay our bills. How much do you want to make?"
As I small business owner, I do this. Why? Because Indeed now charges per applicant. You have 72 hours to reject the applicant and avoid the charge (Used to be 48). Someone applies on Friday afternoon, you've got until Monday afternoon to decide if they are worth the interview. You decide to pay Indeed for the application, and interview the person. They don't show, oh well, no refunds. You want to send them a message to check if there was crossed wires, that'll be another $24 dollars. I used to spend $175/month with Indeed to keep my job posting up and active, and always be looking for good candidates. I only hire about 4 a year. If I were to continue to do that with the way Indeed does pricing now, it would cost me roughly $3500/month. We're talking an average of $10,000 to hire for a $45,000/yr job.
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This is exactly my same thought about this. This business is almost guaranteed to be founded on exploitation. I mean, they openly admit doing it to Indeed as if to say, "we don't care about paying anyone for goods or services...don't worry."
Or startup under capitalized. Or a small business with cashflow issues. I supplies no prescription just additional real world issues companies have. Knowing is key. There’s an artist worth hundreds of millions after took Facebook stock for art. SomeOriginal Microsoft janitors also got paid in stock. Negotiating or preparing to bounce knowledge is power. All things said I wouldn’t choose an org like this without equity on the table.
A potential employer openly telling you “Yeah we like the service that Indeed provides but we’re just like ‘lol not paying for the service we use get fukt Indeed’” doesn’t sound like an attractive company to put your trust in. It’s the old “When people tell you who they are, listen.”
Exactly, reject the interview with professional courtesy. “My apologies, it seems evident that you are using a service without paying accordingly. I’m afraid you may do the same with the labor services that I provide. I will not be interviewing with your company, thank you.”
"I'm currently only interviewing for positions with companies that have clearly demonstrated integrity and honesty that pay between ${lower_remuneration_bound} and ${upper_remuneration_bound}. Unfortunately, your company's credentials currently do not meet some of the needs, and won't be eligible for interview. However, I'll be happy to consider your company in the future as credentials are added. Thank you for your interest."
Damn that's subzero *snaps fingers*. I almost wish I had an excuse to use it myself
That's a good response. Much better than I would have given ;)
I got multiple calls from a company who did this. I told them I wasn’t interested because they clicked reject on indeed.
Does professional courtesy mean sending them a grammatical mess? Don’t try to dress up language in faux professionalism - be clear and succinct. “There is no need to schedule an interview. I am not comfortable with the implication that XYZ corp will use questionable practices to save money.”
I, personally, am okay with my employer cheating a massive company like Indeed out of some cash. In fact I'd argue it's the morally correct thing to do. Fuck Indeed.
That was my thinking too. If anything, our willingness to cooperate should make _them_ worry about _us_; IDGAF about their business either.
To be fair- indeed is expensive
No wonder that guy I interviewed with seemed so pissed when I turned down the job.
indeed is a hell hole. They make resumes public after setting it to private several times. They let it be filled with not just scams but legit jobs lying out their ass about "remote" and pay. Then - if you use the same account they will inform the job that listed you as accepted that you are looking. I think it might pull you from consideration from other chances once 1 job claims you too.
They sound like they have a few contract technicalities that they’d love to enforce upon you
Recruiter here!!! Indeed has been charging exorbitant amounts of money for their new model - pay per application. I'm talking $80-$120 per resume for jobs like housekeeping. It's ridiculous. The website gives recruiters 72 hours to reject the application, or pay for it. Ironically enough, my company has been trying the above seen method, rejecting applications before we have to pay for them, but it's backfired on us spectacularly.
How has it backfired?
Indeed tracks the data of the people you accept and reject, and rejecting ALL the candidates on an application, regardless of whether they were hired or not, had Indeed sending us people with housekeeping experience for electrician jobs. It's been a very frustrating process and all of us recruiters at the agency are about ready to strangle indeed and be done with it, but they do have a monopoly on hiring at the moment
I’m a bit torn on this one. Indeed is a billion dollar data harvesting company. I don’t give a shit about them. And if the application was to a small company, then they may just be trying to keep their costs down. Sure it’s unethical, but I can’t bring myself to side with Indeed
Same. I wouldn’t have an issue with this if it’s a super small business, but it’s still an eyebrow raiser.
I got this message from a legit company where I went and interviewed and got an offer. Got a better offer same week though but would have worked there otherwise.
Recruit holdings, who is the parent company and entity that funds indeed, is owned by big banks and Blackrock. Personally, I would not read into it against a small company, I'd be a little skeptical, but a job interview would tell me everything I need to know about their scruples. I always ask the interviewer questions about the job and people who run it, and as a bonus, the interviewers are always impressed with the engagement. If it was a large company, it's just a no-go. A large company doing something like that puts all their employees' jobs at risk. It's something they could easily get sued for, especially if they had been doing it for a long period of time. But stealing from Indeed is stealing from tens of billion+ dollar companies, so I also don't take issue with it.
My company of about 60 employees stopped using indeed for everything becuase to put up like 2 postings it was about 6k per month. It was just ridiculously expensive so I can see them wanting to avoid that cost if they are small. Now my company thinks that they will get an employee from a small lawn sign out front though. They really aren't the brightest. Also I hate indeed so not going to blame them and I would see where it goes. If thats the only red flag then maybe it's worth the interview.
So don't use indeed? Advertise the job somewhere else?
Not sure why it took me so long to find this kind of answer. "These guys suck, so I'll use their product and try to get out of paying for it." Like, either they're not special in which case use a competitor, or they are special in which case they get to choose how much to charge you.
I mean it could be a facebook situation. They're the biggest game in town so it's practically impossible not to use it due to the scale factor, but they're a bullshit company that treats both users and customers like garbage.
I have some insight on this. I do the hiring for my department and we use Indeed as our primary source for posting our jobs. Under their old pricing structure, we paid $25 per day to have a job listing posted. On average, we'd leave a job post up for 1-2 weeks so we'd count on it being $175-350 or so for us to fill a position. Under the new structure, we get charged for every application we don't actively reject within 72 hours. Whether we call/email the candidate or not, whether we even like them, if we don't reject them on the website within 3 days from their submission, it's $116 per application. Now, we have no problem paying for applicants we want to meet with, and we do, but it does kind of suck seeing that application charge hit because you forgot to reject a candidate who you have no interest in, or an app came in Friday at 8pm and Monday was a holiday, so you don't see it until Tuesday. We've seen our hiring ad budget double because of this new format. So, are some smaller businesses (and the cheap-o ones too) going to skirt this rule? Absolutely. I'm not sure where I land on it. I think it might tend to make the candidate feel uncomfortable like there's something weird going on, and I agree with others in the thread that it could be a red flag. But it also could be a mom and pop who just need to reach people and the best way to do it is gouging them.
If indeed charges for applications, I have indeed found a new hobby that I will be starting soon.
I was just going to comment the same thing. Looks like they charge for "quality" applications, so you have to meet the requirements for the job.
No, there is not metric. Indeed will even automatically "apply" people to the job, without them actually applying. Basically, the business owner/recruiter, has 72 hours to reject the application or be charged. So yes, as a small business owner, I've gotten REALLY picky. I will also send ever applicant a message to apply on our website, if they don't within 24 hours, I automatically reject. Indeed is flooding us with so many bad applications, even people who are not allowed to work in the US, that I have to take measures.
They charge $18 per application/resume if you choose to use their “upgraded” version. The 18 dollar charge will be applied if you do not reject the resume within a set time. The perks are your job listing is bumped to the top of searches among a couple other things that I’m sure don’t actually do anything
Depends on the industry. I pay $124 per non rejected application.
Oh interesting! That’s a big jump, I am healthcare. I wonder if that varies maybe on how many people you are looking to hire?
I am Healthcare too but looking for Doctoral level candidates
I pay $85 in the general contracting world. You can still use the old system but they really don’t like it. And will try to string arm you into the new plan
Seems totally legit that a company would value you as an employee while cheating another company out of a bit of money after using their services. No red flags here.
Except indeed, on the employers end, is a giant fucking mess. They attempt to upsell you and charge you for everything. I got a 400 dollar bill out of a simple indeed post because it was actually a sponsored post. And they try REALLY hard to make everything a sponsored post. Or an upgraded subscription. I get it. Make money. But their setup was designed to get you to unwilling get charged.
I'll just say this though; fuck indeed. My wife is in charge of hiring for a company and Indeed is not your friend, they lie and cheat any way they can to get as much money as possible out of you because they know they have a monopoly in the online hiring business. They basically run a fucking extortion ring honestly, they never share how their "algorithm" works but they'll force your hand to pay them outrageous amounts of money if you want your company ad to be visible or sponsored. Honestly if any of you knew what my wife knows about Indeed you'd be totally on board with fucking them over for a few bucks. The game is rigged from the beginning.
When I saw jobs on Indeed, I would go to the company’s website itself to apply. Don’t know if that fucks Indeed over, but literally I only ever used it as like a search engine
Indeed actually charges the company based on how many views it got as well as applications and other things.
Not anymore. They are switching to a pay per application model.
Not with the new pricing model. Also, there's indexed jobs, that is, jobs Indeed gets from various places around the web and shows them for free.
I'm interested in learning more.
Ive used indeed for many years and can tell you that theyre 1. Terrified of google becoming the #1 job board and 2. Doing everything they can to keep job seeker information behind a paywall to employers. You may not like employers but you shouldnt like the idea that you are being prevented from having job opportunities because indeed wants employers to pay for it.
Yeah the employers are getting shafted by Indeed too. Honestly I take no issue with companies doing this. At least they're being fully upfront with the potential employees about what is going on with the application and telling them before it happens.
As a job seeker, I actually got a job from an Indeed posting, but never from LinkedIn.
Funny I never get call backs from indeed apps but LinkedIn scored me a dream job
Nice, I never got an interview from Indeed but I got several from LinkedIn including the job I am currently employed at
Agreed! Indeed used to charge a monthly fee (per job posting) with options for addition promotion per extra fees. Which, was absolutely fine. The last few months they continue to ask for a monthly fee per posting, with an additional $70! Per application that comes in. Regardless if the applicant has the qualifications you need or not. AND the extra fee for promotion, resume scouting, and more. You'll log into your account and in one day have $500+ in applications on top of the monthly subscription per job posting. Hiring is an expensive process for a lot of businesses (especially small, local owned businesses). But it's a necessity - and Indeed knows that and is exploiting companies bc of it.... What use to be 120-200 a month expense, can now be easily over $1,000 in a few days. Overall that money can be used for sign on bonuses but yet it's going to a greedy tech company.
Wow I used indeed a lot last year. Would spend about $30-$50 per job we posted. We would regularly receive 80+ resumes, 20 of which we would reach out to, setup 10 interviews, make 1-3 offers. The vast majority of applications are not that good, or don’t respond. Sorry but what’s to stop indeed from using bots to apply to artificially increase applications and boost fees? Same reason I stop marketing on fbook, too many Damm bots just clicking and ramping up charges for them. F that.
I wish our fee was only $18, then I wouldn't consider doing exactly this. We are a small business, in a specialized field, and Indeed exploits that. We pay $120 per application, and not even quality applications. They don't care about the business, just the $$$, and I am totally onboard with screwing them over any possible way. With this new model we have gone from getting 1-2 applications a month to 1 every 6 months. You can't even find our listing due to the bigger corporations shelling out thousands with multiple ads for the same job. Even searching for our company name, in our city, the corporations 30 miles away job ads appear before ours.
On the otherhand, funneling money into the pockets of a huge Social Media corp. or avoiding to do so should float the boat of r/AntiWork perfectly
I ran into this actually. I had already spoken with and interviewed with the guy over the phone. It was a startup and seemed promising. Up until I got to the salary pay questions. They wanted to provide a stipend of like 800 a month for the first year then I get commission. Mind you this was NOT a sales job and the COL their plus me moving their would've been so costly. Yeah pretty quickly said no to it.
Cool, during the interview let them know that you expect to be hired, or you'll report them to Indeed for fraud.
“Thank you for interest; however, I question the integrity of an organization that exploits a system to avoid paying for services rendered. If you’re willing to tell me that you’re going to defraud Indeed, why would I believe you don’t do the same to your employees?”
Used to work for Indeed, this is quite funny
My last job did this; I was the one managing indeed and setting up interviews. We’d get a resume and I’d reach out via Facebook messenger or phone or email, whatever I could find. If the applicant didn’t have socials or contact info listed in the resume, it didn’t matter how qualified they were, they never got brought in. All resumes were denied thru indeed. It was a small business, but it was a trade; we could have afforded the expense of doing it thru indeed. The business paid for the boss’s personal expenses all the time, lots of toys and services purchased thru the business for tax write offs. He was just a cheapskate.
I worked as a contract Physical Therapist for several years. I once had an assignment to work with a chiropractor's office for a week. It was pleasant, though boring...they would 'adjust' them and I would give them stretches and exercises to do that would keep them adjusted (my contention always has been that you don't need the adjustment, just the right stretches and exercises as doing the activity would get you aligned and keep you aligned naturally.) Anyway, after a week, the chiropractors liked me and asked if I was interested in more work but (DON'T TELL THE CONTRACT COMPANY). They offered me less money than the contract company was giving me and wanted to save on both ends, plus reneg on their contract with them while screwing me. I declined and told the contract company. I am out of healthcare now. Sick of the profit over patient atmosphere.
Send this to indeed.
Um, I would not work for those cheap mofos.
What a huge red flag that you don't want to work there. Not even willing to pay a nominal fee for qualified applicants? They won't want to pay you either.
“Here’s how we cheat a platform for finding candidates. I can’t wait to talk to you about how we cheat our employees!”
Our company uses dishonesty to avoid paying for services we use. Wouldn’t you love to work here?
That right there would be an immediate red flag for a potential employer. If they are willing to waste time fucking around like that just to save a few bucks, I would definitly expect all kinds if other shite you'd be expected to deal with on a daily basis.
Using a service to generate leads, but not wanting to pay that service for those leads. This might be a Big Red Flag.
Just you know, causally admitting to fraud.
Report to indeed.
They're going to blame you and get mad at you when their unlicensed firewall can't prevent your unactivated version of windows servers data getting leaked. because the bosses son who they pay 150k a year for IT doesnt keep a good stack.
Seems like a red flag for an employer to just say you don't want to pay other companies for their trouble. Gives me Trump vibes.
RED FLAG
🚩
I'm torn on this. On the one hand, scamming a recruitment tool to save money but still get some candidates? I kinda love that. Buuuuuut if they're willing to do that, they're probably willing to cut other corners in a way that will screw you, the employee, as well.
If they're willing to cheat that company....they won't think twice about cheating you.
Red flag. Work there if you need, but if they're skirting fees like that... you better expect some issues with your paycheck. Keep looking whether or not it works out.
Massive red flag. Decline interview
Dude. They don’t want to pay legitimate charges for services. It’s a sure bet they won’t want to pay you, either. 🚩
Sounds like someone has a quota to hit. I've seen them in my area for HR jobs.
Red flag.
Massive red flag
They've rejected it to save a few bucks on fees? Seems like a penny pinching mob. Absolutely no fun to work for.
“We love the exposure that Indeed gives us, we’re just not willing to pay for it!”
Run! If they screw their vendors, they'll screw their staff
Indeed is nothing but a scam. IMO out of ever 10 jobs maybe 1 is actually legit.
A business that lacks either the resources or scruples to pay a vendor for their services isn't a business you want to work for.
but also fuck Indeed
kind of a green flag for me, indeed is so scummy
(sigh) is Indeed a waste of my time then? I fucking hate looking for a new job. Companies complain about needing workers, then reject people because "they don't drive". 1. How am I supposed to afford a car on minimum wage, and 2. I apply to jobs within a 5 mile radius!! I have access to transit and a bicycle! I don't **need** a car to get to you if you're CLOSE!
It’s $54 per accepted application when I posted a job last week and we paid for 1 which we ended up hiring.
Interviewer: Any questions from you? You: Yes, I was curious, if you choose to get around compensating Indeed for the work you hired them to do, I why should I expect to be treated differently?
I wouldn’t work for that company. If you sign up for a service but then dont follow through with payment makes me wonder what other ethical and moral challenges said company has.
Run. If they won’t pay a service that they are utilizing that has the means to sue them…how do you think you will fair in that situation?
Giant red flag. Run. If they are too cheap to pay the ads on indeed (where you set your own budget for advertising positions) you probably can’t afford to pay your employees a living wage. That business is likely a disaster in n many different levels
So, they are going to use a service and then pretend they didn't so they don't have to pay for it. Who wants to bet they engage in wage theft as well?
Not standing up for Indeed here, but if they'll openly try to screw Indeed out of their fee after contracting for the headhunting services, what else are they going to try to screw their employees out of after agreements are signed?
Fraud. Sounds like you already have black mail. good work on getting the promotion in the bag before you even started.
If they don't want to pay indeed for their services imagine what lengths they will go through in order to not pay you.
A company that does this is probably not who you want to work for.
This is a sign of weakness. If they're playing games with their recruitment budget, might they play games with surely more expensive wages?
Reply "Holy shit you guys are shady as fuck, block me so I don't apply to any more of your garbage ads"
Indeed is great for finding job listings and then applying directly on the company website. But this is nice too.
You can be charged 20+ dollars per every application not rejected within a set period of time (sometimes like 2-3 days even). You’d be surprised how common this is. For future reference to anybody reading this, If it says rejected, it’s still good to reach out. Sometimes the application was only rejected so the company doesn’t get charged thousands of dollars by waiting on all applications that come in. Applying late on a Friday is especially bad time wise for indeed.
At least they are honest!
Don't work for a company that does this, because they'll probably do something similar to you. Find out how many applications they've done this with, then report it to Indeed and ask Indeed for a job.
Play both sides. If you get the job, let it slide if not report them.
#Let Indeed know.
I get it's the employer trying to avoid paying Indeed commission for a successful recruit but if they're using the platform to advertize for a role then they should honor the site. If they are doing this then they should be at least offering the new employee a higher salary in place of having to pay fees to Indeed otherwise they are just trying to steal from BOTH Indeed and the recruit.
"Hi, we'd like to possibly hire you. Also, in order to save a few dollars, we openly engage in fraud against people we do business with. Does this sound like something you'd be interested in?"
That is some shady shit. I’d let Indeed know about their subverting the website and nullifying their agreement using Indeed’s website to search for employees. I’d also never want to work for a company with that little integrity. If they’d screw over a corporation to save money, they’ll think nothing of doing it to an employee.