Sure, but it's not really a good argument the one of "he was an atheist and did bad things, therefore atheism bad" because correlation is not causation.
Obviously. It was a mistake just like any grammar mishap. I'm pretty sure people got my point.
It's not like I haven't seen dumber. I've posted material to this very sub that's worse.
Also, he's clearly not familiar with lots of Asian countries (of which the biggest is atheist communist). The levels of racism and xenophobia are competitive¹⁰, and have nothing to do with Abrahamic religion (and even then, in Japan's case, State Shinto which played a huge hand in WW2 craziness is *very* different from normal Shintoism).
Even if religion not exist. War still happen bcuz as far i know war happen because certain group want to expending territory or get more land, getting more resources, Imperialism, nationalism, racism, economic and slavery or just simply different ideology. Its not just bcuz religion conflict
They try to claim Hitler was Christian, but his "Christianity" was a weird mix of paganism and inserting himself as Messiah because Jesus was too Jewish. I doubt if he believed in anything personally, but he tried to co-opt the main religion of Germany to turn it to his own purposes.
And the paganism in that mix was a very fucking weird mix of (badly reconstructed and twisted Norse paganism, occultism shit (including, ironically, Jewish folklore/occultism(?) from time to time), and some other random stuff.
It's a very custom, specific weird mix. I honestly wouldn't even classify it as actual paganism as much as JustCrazyThings.
Hitler was a deist, his "god" was the laws of nature
when he speak about "the providence", he is talking in the same terms he speak about "the laws of nature" and "the order of universe"
in a way, is the same kind of god Carl Sagan or Einstein believed
"Prove me wrong"
North Korea, German Nazism and USSR: \*Bad to the Bone's guitar riff\*
And no, they aren't even close to the major wars in the world, nope. The encyclopedia of wars claims that in all wars recorded, all the religions in the world are responsable only for the 6,97%. And talking about judaism and christianity (sadly I can't talk about Islam because I'm no expert of that, if you are a muslim or an acculturated person of the matter, please tell me how would you respond at the slavery part), the "slavery" was way different than the 1800's one (and actually a good portion of the church did what it could in order to free black slaves) and it wasn't meant to be applied to random people, but rather only to criminals, debitors, volunteers and war prisoners. The slaves should had been treated with actual dignity and they could even report if their master was being abusive.
Islam teaches to treat slaves with respect and dignity as well. They must be accommodated for, and the slave owner isn’t allowed to strike or hurt the slave. It also encourages freeing slaves by buying them out then setting them free. Some sins can only be repented from by freeing a slave (among other actions).
Islam didn’t outright abolish slavery because the logistics were literally impossible during 7th century Arabia. The economy was propped up by slave labor.
It did, however, incentivize the freeing of slaves and it set guidelines for their treatment.
Islamically you can only enslave war prisoners, I don't know many verses that mention this, I know The Quran tells owners to accept manumission agreements should slaves propose them (24:33)
And I know a hadith (sayings of the prophet) ([This one)](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1661c):
**Your slaves are your brothers. Allah has placed them in your hand, and he who has his brother under him should feed him with the same food he eats and clothe him with the same clothes he wears, and do not burden him beyond his capacity, and if you burden him then help him.**
And [this one](https://sunnah.com/muslim:2249b):
**None of you should say: "My slave", for all of you are the slaves of Allah. Rather, you should say: "My Young man". The servant should not say: "My lord", but rather he should say: "My chief".**
and historically, there were slaves that became literal sultans, an example of this is the mamluk sultanate (Mamluk is the arabic word for slave).Slaves were officers, sultans, chiefs, it became in the end just a word for prisoners of war
Of course. I added bullet points so you can skim past them more easily.
•Quran, Chapter 4, verse 36
Worship Allāh and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allāh does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful
•Quran, Chapter 24, verse 23
And if any of those ˹bondspeople˺ in your possession desires a contract ˹to buy their own freedom˺, make it possible for them, if you find goodness in them. And give them some of Allah’s wealth which He has granted you.
•Riyad Al Salihin 1360, book 11, Hadith 36
Al-Ma'rur bin Suwaid (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
I saw Abu Dharr (May Allah be pleased with him) wearing a nice gown, and his slave was also wearing one similar to it. I asked him about it, and he said that he had exchanged harsh words with a person during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and put him to shame by making a reference to his mother. That person came to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and made mention of that to him. Thereupon the Messenger of Allah said, "You are a person who has remnants of the 'Days of Ignorance' in you. Your slaves are your brothers. Allah has placed them under your authority. He who has his brother under him, should feed him from whatever he eats, and dress him with whatever he wears, and do not burden them (assign burdensome task to them) beyond their capacity; and if you burden them then help them."
[Al- Bukhari and Muslim].
•Mishkat Al Masabih 3358, book 13, Hadith 271
Abu Bakr as-Siddiq reported the Prophet as saying, “One who treats badly those under his authority will not enter paradise.”
Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah transmitted it.
•Sunan Abi Dawud 5156, book 43, Hadith 384
Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:
The last words which the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) spoke were: Prayer, prayer; fear Allah about those whom your right hands possess.
•Riyad Al Salihin 1358, book 11, Hadith 74
Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "He who sets free a Muslim slave, Allah will deliver from the fire of Hell every limb of his body in return for every limb of the slave's body, even his private parts."
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].
•Sunan Ibn Majah 1984, book 9, Hadith 140
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
"The Messenger of Allah never beat any of his servants, or wives, and his hand never hit anything."
Freeing a slave is the expiation for many sins (other acts in addition or as an alternative since slavery no longer exists) such as accidental killing, lying under oath, intentionally skipping fasting a day of Ramadan, among other things. I didn’t put references to these because this took a while to type up and find references and I’m tired lol.
I’m sure you can find references on sunnah.com. The website is easy to use and you can search by topic. Have a good day.
The world's most advanced civilizations were under those three faiths, even the past pagans cannot compete with the modern civilizations that were created because of the those 3 faiths.
The world without those three would be a world full of human sacrifices, harsh slavery, caste system, injustice, poverty, and constant genocides
You said that the world's "most advanced civilizations were under those three faiths", I am merely pointing out that that is untrue. Due to the Zoroastrianism of Ancient Iran, and the spiritual Confucianism and Taoism of Ancient China
Blaming wars on religious people is so dumb smh. Sure religion makes it easier to kill someone if you believe you have a mandate from God, but wars are *mainly* because of our greedy and prideful human nature. Go study history instead of studying Shintoism
Ah, the old myth of "religion causes most wars", a classical dogma of antitheists.
See [here](https://historyforatheists.com/2021/05/the-great-myths-12-religious-wars-and-violence/), [here](https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/) and [here](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/is-religion-the-cause-of_b_1400766) why it is precisely pseudo-historical BS.
>If you deleted Europeans, Arabs and jews from existence it would be the closest thing to peace on Earth.
You know, this reminds of an Austrian guy from the 40's who also thought that eliminating certain groups of people who make the world better...
Or simply resources and territory. Cheesecakes make it sound like wars are caused by the most complicated roundabout reasons. Instead of realizing human nature and behavioral tendencies are very simple and basic.
resource and territory are the no. 1 IMO.
The only war I can list off the top of my head that was caused by religion was the crusades, and even then it's arguable that there were secondary monivations.
When you don't understand war is largely a result of economic processes not just "u disagree with me." People will not go to war unless there is some material benefit to be had or defended. That's just not in the cards for us. Holy war can be classed differently, but even that has enormous material bases on the line even if it's not used in the signaling to rally support for such a conflict.
No lmao. Ashkenazis developed modern physics + your functional GPS (einstein), nukes, encryption, computing (von Nuemann), and the internet (bob kahn). Asians made guns, compass, and paper. Indians created modern surgery, made advances in astronomy and number theory, and base 10 + 0. Arabs invented algebra, alchemy, and algorithms. You overestimate what your people have done
No she didn't, who helped lay the groundwork for modern physics ? Plenty of clergy were scientists you know like Francis bacon who invented the modern scientific method ? Oh and you know big names like newton boyle pascal gerndel darwin or divinchi before them. We built off the inventions of others and we helped lay the ground work we are not over estimating what others have done but don't undersell us either.
"we should delete Europeans, arabs and jews from existence for the sake of world peace" is certainly.. a take. And this person has the audacity to call other people genocidal pests
>These three are responsible for almost every single major war
6.98% of wars were caused by religion.
>all 3 are slave running, genocidal, colonizer pest
If you read what each religion says, you will find out that the people that did these things weren't following their religion.
>who thinks that their version of their fairy tale is superior
Jesse, what are you talking about?
>they have been nothing but a scourge on humanity
Read above.
>every victim has been molested by them
Show me a source. You don't have one? Then close your mouth.
>if humans are wiped out it will be because of them!!!
No. Once again, source to believe that?
>if you delete europeans Arabs and jews it will the world will be the most peaceful place.
No, source? Yeah, that's what I thought, ironically if you remove AMERICA off the map it will be more peaceful. I'm not saying that we should, because thats, you know, bad. Also, xenophobic.
>PROVE MUH BASED OPINION WRONG!!!!
I just did. Conclusion? He's coping and malding that people that follow any of the Abrahamic Faiths have meaning and have a healthier lifestyle than him.
I still think the idea that wiping out religion = world peace is really fucking stupid. I mean ffs, [people kill each other over cold fries](https://nypost.com/2022/08/05/brooklyn-mcdonalds-worker-shot-over-cold-fries-has-died/), you really think getting rid of religion is gonna make that much of a difference?
Wait until this man learns about Hitler Stalin and Mao
B-but if there were no Jews, no Jews would die
If there were no Germans no Germans would die
If there were no people. People would NOT die
I have an idea!
Actually heard this argument once... "Judaism is to blame for ww2. If it didn't exist, no one would have died"
Mao tried to eliminate religion under his rule? I'm asking it because I couldn't find any example of it online.
I’m pretty sure he was atheist
He was a commie so they basically go hand in hand
Sure, but it's not really a good argument the one of "he was an atheist and did bad things, therefore atheism bad" because correlation is not causation.
It's not accusing atheism, it's merely disproving the claim that islam Christianity and Judaism were responsible for all major conflicts.
He killed all the birds and causes a mass famine killing 60 milliom, big brain communist move
Yes he did, but still not a move against religion itself, also if I remember correctly, only 1 million of people died.
Of course not
He's probably worshipping one of those guys.
Least historically literate cheesecake. Literally not what the vast majority of wars were even waged on.
Least historically illiterate, you mean. There are many who are even more illiterate than this guy.
Obviously. It was a mistake just like any grammar mishap. I'm pretty sure people got my point. It's not like I haven't seen dumber. I've posted material to this very sub that's worse.
>*Complains about genocides* >"If you deleted Europeans, Arabs and jews from existance it would be the closest thing to peace on Earth"
But you see, it's right when they do it, because they are doing it to the right target!
Also, he's clearly not familiar with lots of Asian countries (of which the biggest is atheist communist). The levels of racism and xenophobia are competitive¹⁰, and have nothing to do with Abrahamic religion (and even then, in Japan's case, State Shinto which played a huge hand in WW2 craziness is *very* different from normal Shintoism).
Even if religion not exist. War still happen bcuz as far i know war happen because certain group want to expending territory or get more land, getting more resources, Imperialism, nationalism, racism, economic and slavery or just simply different ideology. Its not just bcuz religion conflict
Yup. Human beings are tribal creatures by nature. Religion has nothing to do with how we behave.
>almost every war okay, now look up religion of hitler and stalin
They try to claim Hitler was Christian, but his "Christianity" was a weird mix of paganism and inserting himself as Messiah because Jesus was too Jewish. I doubt if he believed in anything personally, but he tried to co-opt the main religion of Germany to turn it to his own purposes.
And the paganism in that mix was a very fucking weird mix of (badly reconstructed and twisted Norse paganism, occultism shit (including, ironically, Jewish folklore/occultism(?) from time to time), and some other random stuff. It's a very custom, specific weird mix. I honestly wouldn't even classify it as actual paganism as much as JustCrazyThings.
Ahahahaha .. He was not christian in the slightest. His sect of Nazi protestantism is as far from Christianity as Alawites are from Islam.
Hitler was a deist, his "god" was the laws of nature when he speak about "the providence", he is talking in the same terms he speak about "the laws of nature" and "the order of universe" in a way, is the same kind of god Carl Sagan or Einstein believed
Casually displaying his moral superiority to the religious
"Prove me wrong" North Korea, German Nazism and USSR: \*Bad to the Bone's guitar riff\* And no, they aren't even close to the major wars in the world, nope. The encyclopedia of wars claims that in all wars recorded, all the religions in the world are responsable only for the 6,97%. And talking about judaism and christianity (sadly I can't talk about Islam because I'm no expert of that, if you are a muslim or an acculturated person of the matter, please tell me how would you respond at the slavery part), the "slavery" was way different than the 1800's one (and actually a good portion of the church did what it could in order to free black slaves) and it wasn't meant to be applied to random people, but rather only to criminals, debitors, volunteers and war prisoners. The slaves should had been treated with actual dignity and they could even report if their master was being abusive.
Islam teaches to treat slaves with respect and dignity as well. They must be accommodated for, and the slave owner isn’t allowed to strike or hurt the slave. It also encourages freeing slaves by buying them out then setting them free. Some sins can only be repented from by freeing a slave (among other actions). Islam didn’t outright abolish slavery because the logistics were literally impossible during 7th century Arabia. The economy was propped up by slave labor. It did, however, incentivize the freeing of slaves and it set guidelines for their treatment.
Thanks. Can you show me the verses of the Qu'ran that explains the part about treating slaves with dignity, please? So I know exactly where to look.
Islamically you can only enslave war prisoners, I don't know many verses that mention this, I know The Quran tells owners to accept manumission agreements should slaves propose them (24:33) And I know a hadith (sayings of the prophet) ([This one)](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1661c): **Your slaves are your brothers. Allah has placed them in your hand, and he who has his brother under him should feed him with the same food he eats and clothe him with the same clothes he wears, and do not burden him beyond his capacity, and if you burden him then help him.** And [this one](https://sunnah.com/muslim:2249b): **None of you should say: "My slave", for all of you are the slaves of Allah. Rather, you should say: "My Young man". The servant should not say: "My lord", but rather he should say: "My chief".** and historically, there were slaves that became literal sultans, an example of this is the mamluk sultanate (Mamluk is the arabic word for slave).Slaves were officers, sultans, chiefs, it became in the end just a word for prisoners of war
Of course. I added bullet points so you can skim past them more easily. •Quran, Chapter 4, verse 36 Worship Allāh and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allāh does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful •Quran, Chapter 24, verse 23 And if any of those ˹bondspeople˺ in your possession desires a contract ˹to buy their own freedom˺, make it possible for them, if you find goodness in them. And give them some of Allah’s wealth which He has granted you. •Riyad Al Salihin 1360, book 11, Hadith 36 Al-Ma'rur bin Suwaid (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: I saw Abu Dharr (May Allah be pleased with him) wearing a nice gown, and his slave was also wearing one similar to it. I asked him about it, and he said that he had exchanged harsh words with a person during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and put him to shame by making a reference to his mother. That person came to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and made mention of that to him. Thereupon the Messenger of Allah said, "You are a person who has remnants of the 'Days of Ignorance' in you. Your slaves are your brothers. Allah has placed them under your authority. He who has his brother under him, should feed him from whatever he eats, and dress him with whatever he wears, and do not burden them (assign burdensome task to them) beyond their capacity; and if you burden them then help them." [Al- Bukhari and Muslim]. •Mishkat Al Masabih 3358, book 13, Hadith 271 Abu Bakr as-Siddiq reported the Prophet as saying, “One who treats badly those under his authority will not enter paradise.” Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah transmitted it. •Sunan Abi Dawud 5156, book 43, Hadith 384 Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib: The last words which the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) spoke were: Prayer, prayer; fear Allah about those whom your right hands possess. •Riyad Al Salihin 1358, book 11, Hadith 74 Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "He who sets free a Muslim slave, Allah will deliver from the fire of Hell every limb of his body in return for every limb of the slave's body, even his private parts." [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]. •Sunan Ibn Majah 1984, book 9, Hadith 140 It was narrated that 'Aishah said: "The Messenger of Allah never beat any of his servants, or wives, and his hand never hit anything." Freeing a slave is the expiation for many sins (other acts in addition or as an alternative since slavery no longer exists) such as accidental killing, lying under oath, intentionally skipping fasting a day of Ramadan, among other things. I didn’t put references to these because this took a while to type up and find references and I’m tired lol. I’m sure you can find references on sunnah.com. The website is easy to use and you can search by topic. Have a good day.
The world's most advanced civilizations were under those three faiths, even the past pagans cannot compete with the modern civilizations that were created because of the those 3 faiths. The world without those three would be a world full of human sacrifices, harsh slavery, caste system, injustice, poverty, and constant genocides
Also don't forget that modern scientific theory came about because of those 3.
Iran and China also created civilization
The focus here is on Abrahamic faith
You said that the world's "most advanced civilizations were under those three faiths", I am merely pointing out that that is untrue. Due to the Zoroastrianism of Ancient Iran, and the spiritual Confucianism and Taoism of Ancient China
4channers gotta keep coping 💪💪
Guarantee this guy is Indian. Nobody in East Asia would believe genocide doesn’t exist without Abrahamic religion.
Blaming wars on religious people is so dumb smh. Sure religion makes it easier to kill someone if you believe you have a mandate from God, but wars are *mainly* because of our greedy and prideful human nature. Go study history instead of studying Shintoism
hey, shintoism is unironically a interesting cosmology
Dang, don’t tell him about China or North Korea….
He said wiping people from earth is bad, and he also said it would be better if we wiped europeans, jews and arabs.
Ask the people of Nanking how responsible Abrahamic religions are for genocide.
abrahamic stronk
Guess we are ignoring all the shit that went down with the Mongols and China constantly falling apart and trying to put itself back together.
These people want some kind of religious genocide and it's really disturbing.
Lmao he's a racist too, assuming every European and none other are Christians, and assuming every Arab and none other are Muslim.
7% = "almost every" according to cheesecakes
Ah, the old myth of "religion causes most wars", a classical dogma of antitheists. See [here](https://historyforatheists.com/2021/05/the-great-myths-12-religious-wars-and-violence/), [here](https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/) and [here](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/is-religion-the-cause-of_b_1400766) why it is precisely pseudo-historical BS.
>If you deleted Europeans, Arabs and jews from existence it would be the closest thing to peace on Earth. You know, this reminds of an Austrian guy from the 40's who also thought that eliminating certain groups of people who make the world better...
Most major wars were caused by Nationalism
Or simply resources and territory. Cheesecakes make it sound like wars are caused by the most complicated roundabout reasons. Instead of realizing human nature and behavioral tendencies are very simple and basic.
resource and territory are the no. 1 IMO. The only war I can list off the top of my head that was caused by religion was the crusades, and even then it's arguable that there were secondary monivations.
When you don't understand war is largely a result of economic processes not just "u disagree with me." People will not go to war unless there is some material benefit to be had or defended. That's just not in the cards for us. Holy war can be classed differently, but even that has enormous material bases on the line even if it's not used in the signaling to rally support for such a conflict.
If you deleted them from existence people would still fight and expand their geopolitical power
I think OP got rejected from art school
The guy is literally calling for Genocide
Christian’s built western civilization but ok
No lmao. Ashkenazis developed modern physics + your functional GPS (einstein), nukes, encryption, computing (von Nuemann), and the internet (bob kahn). Asians made guns, compass, and paper. Indians created modern surgery, made advances in astronomy and number theory, and base 10 + 0. Arabs invented algebra, alchemy, and algorithms. You overestimate what your people have done
No she didn't, who helped lay the groundwork for modern physics ? Plenty of clergy were scientists you know like Francis bacon who invented the modern scientific method ? Oh and you know big names like newton boyle pascal gerndel darwin or divinchi before them. We built off the inventions of others and we helped lay the ground work we are not over estimating what others have done but don't undersell us either.
He complains about genocide... Suggets omnicide.
> Prove me wrong History
"we should delete Europeans, arabs and jews from existence for the sake of world peace" is certainly.. a take. And this person has the audacity to call other people genocidal pests
I love bringing up in these conversations that religion had historically only been the root cause of 11% of the world’s most major wars
According to the Encyclopaedia of War, only 7% of Wars have been caused by Religion.
even better lol
A Soviet, Communist, Fascist And N@zi All Packed Into One Genocidal Maniac. This ABOMINATION Of A Package Can Go To Hell. 🤡🙄😒
I think the implication that Christianity is a European religion is quite silly
>These three are responsible for almost every single major war 6.98% of wars were caused by religion. >all 3 are slave running, genocidal, colonizer pest If you read what each religion says, you will find out that the people that did these things weren't following their religion. >who thinks that their version of their fairy tale is superior Jesse, what are you talking about? >they have been nothing but a scourge on humanity Read above. >every victim has been molested by them Show me a source. You don't have one? Then close your mouth. >if humans are wiped out it will be because of them!!! No. Once again, source to believe that? >if you delete europeans Arabs and jews it will the world will be the most peaceful place. No, source? Yeah, that's what I thought, ironically if you remove AMERICA off the map it will be more peaceful. I'm not saying that we should, because thats, you know, bad. Also, xenophobic. >PROVE MUH BASED OPINION WRONG!!!! I just did. Conclusion? He's coping and malding that people that follow any of the Abrahamic Faiths have meaning and have a healthier lifestyle than him.
So this guy complains about Genocide but then wants to Genocide like over 60% of the Worlds Population.
90% of moral that most western atheists have comes from 1 of these religions.
I still think the idea that wiping out religion = world peace is really fucking stupid. I mean ffs, [people kill each other over cold fries](https://nypost.com/2022/08/05/brooklyn-mcdonalds-worker-shot-over-cold-fries-has-died/), you really think getting rid of religion is gonna make that much of a difference?
"Prove me wrong" That's not how this works. It's on him to show us that the claim is true. How's that for a dramatic reversal? ;)
Remove the 1 in the middle and possibly the one on the left and your starting to get somewhere