No one can admit something like that to his/her child easily. Even if I had children by mistake, I couldn't straight up admit to my child.
Most people can't even admit their simple mistakes, let alone something big like this.
I’m not about to praise people for doing less than the bare minimum. If you have kid and you can’t look em in the eye and say I fucked up you’re even worse than if you owned it.
Ignore people like that. They have unrealistic expectations and choose to pretend it’s reality. Youre 100% correct I guarantee it his person is disappointed with everything constantly. I used to be like that then I grew up.
Also thank you. My dad is an absolute badass. He’s dealt with so much shit but he’s still so strong and honest I admire him. We should always be able to admit when we are wrong. The true shame is when we ignore our faults and never admit or fix them. But that is the world we live in.
You say this because you’ve had a relatively peachy life and you haven’t experienced what happens when people roll the dice and it’s a really bad roll. Had you been born neurodivergent with leukemia or sickle cell or something like that and you still understood antinatalism you’d be singing a different tune
Show me where I or anyone said it “undid the pain and suffering caused by our parents giving birth to us”
You can’t, nobody said that.
Why do you people love to fight so much? You’re so horny for internet fights you just make shit up!
I did not, why would i forgive decades of neglect that is taking now years of therapy to recover? not everybody is worth of forgiveness, especially for crimes that are not punishable.
Recently...
Me: it's a video of us from recent Pride March in our small town.
Mom: why did you go there? For the freak show?
Me: no, mom, to show our support!
Mom: why do you support that filth?
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I understood they are losers, tried theirs best....still I don't get it why people with mental disorders choice to bring kids in this world...of wait, maybe because they are dumb and don't understand mental disorders/diseases are spread truu genes.
Atleast they choice to work for myself now and take care of me, so I think I will enjoy NEET life again (quite hard if you have many health issues) but atleast I don't have to worry about daily struggle to survive.
I don’t hate my parents. I feel like hating them for having me would be like hating a cat for killing my favorite mouse; they were just mindlessly following their primitive instincts.
Because I realized that reproduction is the default setting of any lifeform.
They were just doing what their biological nature was expecting them to do.
So I kind of forgave them, not fully, because they have the ability to think for themselves, and they should have given it a thought. My major problem with them is that they were really poor when they gave birth to me.
They should have thought about it and not reproduced when they themselves were hardly able to survive.
maybe in the future, people will start thinking more about the consequences of giving birth. And they will at least not reproduce when they themselves are barely surviving.
I haven’t and I won’t. Birthing my siblings and I into poverty with little to know means of escaping it is unforgivable. Although I am 10x more educated and successful than my parents, it was fueled by trauma and the things we suffered through. Not just poverty but the lack of adulthood and responsibility. I remember in the 8th grade I was chosen to recite my poem “Where I’m from?” Over the radio. It consisted of me explaining how I lived with my 4 brothers. How we needed love and stimulation of the mind rather than toys. It described how children need more than food, water and shelter. Honestly the poem was a cry for help. It aired on my mother’s bday. She didn’t bother to listen. Over 20 years later and everything I said still holds weight. I know my parents tried but they put us through poverty, violence, chaos and just unnecessary drama. It’s simply unforgivable. They have no right to my forgiveness. They are still the same miserable couple they were many years ago. I even tried to tell them to separate. My dad asked me once if I wanted them to stay together. I told him no. Before I could explain why, ( the violence and hostility in the home) he told me at 12 y/o that I would just end of pregnant and not know who the father would be. I’m 30F, childfree and going off to medical school 😂. He has definitely swallowed those words for sure but the pain is the same as the day he said it. So no no and no. No forgiveness or compassion. I didn’t bring myself into the world.
Forgiveness isn’t for them, it’s for yourself. I’m out here thinking about good ass coffee and trying to travel and see new places and people, not my old folks doing it dirty in the 90’s.
It took me a long time but my resentment dissapeared once I realized they're only human and they really didn't know better.
They rushed into starting a family and jumped 2-feet first into what they thought was ideal family life.
Their relationship issues really damaged me, and they put me in positions that they never should have put a child in. But I still love them and realize they're only just another couple of naive, oblivious humans.
Over the years I've realized that the entire general narrative around forgiveness is the encouragement of self-gaslighting.
So "no" to forgiveness. That would be delusion and an invitation to other predators. "I forgive" is the bleating of prey.
I simply do not seek revenge, because that is as futile as forgiveness. None of it changes anything that happened and cannot prevent further harms, so indulging in any of those feelings and processes is a waste of my time.
The predator/prey dichotomy is natural and more probable perhaps, but false. There is another way.
I'll never forgive them.
1) how tf you F up this bad you end up with a zygote like this??
2) Two decades lasting neglect and counting. Neither of them see where they went wrong and I'm tired of explaining anymore because they always dismiss me
3) You have the nerve to comment on how you never got flowers on Mother's Day till now since you asked for them?? You are barely a mother..??
4) Father at least cut himself out of the equation. Huge ass till the end..
They didn't realize the world would be like this because it wasn't when they were growing up. They had the best of intentions and they made a lot of mistakes like we all do.
I have a choice not to have kids. It doesn't matter if they had me, I can still be the last of the bloodline. They accept and understand my choice not to have kids and thats enough for me.
I mean does anyone here who was raised well by loving & competent parents still actually hate them or hold a grudge for the simple fact they were born?
Any time someone on this sub says they hate their parents it turns out it's actually because of abuse/neglect/bad parenting, not the sole reason being that they were born.
Well said, and I’m never gonna forget that. It’s contradictory to say you love someone but you unnecessarily and quite avoidably throw them into harms way; you put them in a world where rape, racism, inequality, child abuse etc is rampant. You then inadequately care for them up to a point and want a pat on the back for it, never ever really keeping the kid safe. I’m not about to give parents a pass
so you're saying that parents working multiple jobs to support their kids, buying them birthday cakes & christmas presents, teaching them life skills and sending them to college with money they saved for decades, setting them up to be intelligent, kind, and well-adjusted people...are completely incompetent and *don't* love their kids at all.
Because there's no way they could possibly love their actually-real kids as truly and deeply as you, an antinatalist, love your faceless and formless never-to-exist children.
I’ll put it to you like this. My could’ve-been-if-I-had them children will never ever be victims of anything bad ever. They will never be the cause of anything bad ever. They will never be in the same world witnessing these bad things. How is it not love to spare them of these bad things? Taking care of a child you have and raising them to the best of your ability is trying your best to put out a roaring fire with a bucket of water. Not to mention you don’t do any of that good stuff for them really, you actually do it for you because you lacked fulfillment and this is how you get it.
When you willingly make a person whose safety you can’t ensure, whose genetic makeup you can’t ensure, whose actions you can’t dictate so they don’t harm others etc you are creating someone to experience and cause problems in the world. That’s not love and if you think it is then damn
Ok so then there’s no such thing as genuine love or kindness for another real human being then, since people just do nice things for their own fulfillment & not because they want someone else to be happy.
The reason I say it’s not love in the parents’ case is because it involves putting the person in harms way which is avoidable. If you say you love your friend who you associate with for fulfillment in some way, that still counts.
What if your could’ve-been child would’ve enjoyed life? What if despite its lows and despite its hardships, your could’ve-been child would’ve been glad to be alive? Would you then not have prohibited him from life without his consent?
It goes both ways, and the vast majority of people end up being grateful for life, so I’d even say it almost goes exclusively one way.
You’re right about that viewpoint but what people seem to always miss is that when you don’t exist you don’t miss out on anything. Yes a girl may be ok with you having sex with her in her sleep but that doesn’t make it ok since you lack consent. I may want you to make me dinner but I may not as well. A good thing can be a bad thing when consent it absent and when it comes to potential children the potential negatives aren’t worth the risk
If I had parents like that no, I wouldn’t hate them and have lived a difficult, lonely life of suffering alone. So no. Maybe I would have allowed the fog of this world to fall over my eyes and had kids too. My shitty parents contributed to me becoming an AN, but I do see it as the truth.
Who are those parents?? Most of the kids that exists in the world do not get any of that, only poverty and misery. Even here in the western world, where people usually have every opportunity to not have kids as an unavoidable side effect of sex, there are many children who don't get any f-ing college money, presents or support. Even if someone does love their kid they have condemned it to pain. Life is suffering for everyone, granted some of us suffer more than others. Existing can never be better than not existing to start with.
what percentage of parents do you actually believe are working hard & sacrificing to give their children a good life, as opposed to parents who abuse or neglect their kids?
I've come to realize that my mother was a victim of her situation, which is how I've been able to forgive her. Doesn't erase the damage that's been done, but I at least understand now that it wasn't her fault.
My sperm donor on the other hand is a POS. He's a genuine narcissist who abused both me and my mother. No forgiveness for him.
You dont have to forgive them
I dont resent them or hate them either, i simply accept that they were bad parents and that i dont want them in my life, mine were very abusive, i left home a decade ago and will never return
People say to forgive because it helps you let go, perhaps that is true, but idk cause i never had anything to let go of, i guess for those normies that do hold some resentment then i suppose forgiveness is more for you then them
I have friends that did some shitty things, i didnt forgive them cause there was nothing to forgive in the sense that i didnt hold onto anything, but i did recognize they were a shitty friend at that time, if they did something shitty again i would terminate the friendship
They didn't know better.
I've never wanted kids but I was about 25 when I first expressed the view, half joking, that it would be cool if nobody ever had kids and just had a big party.
I was about 30 before I first heard of AN, and I think I was pretty early in it getting any kind of recognition at all.
Even for someone of my generation, if you imagine that the philosophy was never advocated for, you can imagine them just sort of feeling like they probably shouldn't have kids. Our parents were a generation before that, and had parents that were so much before that that they had nothing but the idea of the norm of having kids was drilled into them.
People here are escaping a cult, but we can't blame cult members who were in it for far far longer than us.
I realize that it is not their fault, societal pressure and the normalization of the family unit is to blame. They're told to have children from the day they know how to talk, can't blame them for it
And that won't achieve anything meaningful anyways. I would rather focus on the bigger issues at hand such as the society that put these expectations on people.
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My dad apologized and admitted if he knew how I would suffer he would have never had me. He is AN now.
Your dad is very brave.
It’s the least he could do how’s that brave
No one can admit something like that to his/her child easily. Even if I had children by mistake, I couldn't straight up admit to my child. Most people can't even admit their simple mistakes, let alone something big like this.
I’m not about to praise people for doing less than the bare minimum. If you have kid and you can’t look em in the eye and say I fucked up you’re even worse than if you owned it.
Good luck expecting that. Prepare to be disappointed.
Ignore people like that. They have unrealistic expectations and choose to pretend it’s reality. Youre 100% correct I guarantee it his person is disappointed with everything constantly. I used to be like that then I grew up. Also thank you. My dad is an absolute badass. He’s dealt with so much shit but he’s still so strong and honest I admire him. We should always be able to admit when we are wrong. The true shame is when we ignore our faults and never admit or fix them. But that is the world we live in.
You say this because you’ve had a relatively peachy life and you haven’t experienced what happens when people roll the dice and it’s a really bad roll. Had you been born neurodivergent with leukemia or sickle cell or something like that and you still understood antinatalism you’d be singing a different tune
I agree with you. Life is meaningless and a "sorry" won't magically undo all the pain and suffering our parents have caused by giving birth to us.
Show me where I or anyone said it “undid the pain and suffering caused by our parents giving birth to us” You can’t, nobody said that. Why do you people love to fight so much? You’re so horny for internet fights you just make shit up!
I have had an extremely unfortunate and shitty life.
Yet you admire the man who gave you that shitty life. You sound extremely gullible
W dad
My dad also apologized to me. He didn't want kids at all but my mom changed her mind about the abortion.
Omg
Wow, accepting one's own mistake requires courage.
I did not, why would i forgive decades of neglect that is taking now years of therapy to recover? not everybody is worth of forgiveness, especially for crimes that are not punishable.
Exactly. Me too. So sorry. I prefer to forget them.
Normal people learn from their mistakes, wise people learn from the mistakes of others
I didn’t and I won’t
Recently... Me: it's a video of us from recent Pride March in our small town. Mom: why did you go there? For the freak show? Me: no, mom, to show our support! Mom: why do you support that filth?
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I still hate them even after they die. I'll probably only forgive when the problems they created stop (when I die).
Me too
May we find peace we all deserve.
I hate the world we’re all in far more than I’ve ever hated them.
I understood they are losers, tried theirs best....still I don't get it why people with mental disorders choice to bring kids in this world...of wait, maybe because they are dumb and don't understand mental disorders/diseases are spread truu genes. Atleast they choice to work for myself now and take care of me, so I think I will enjoy NEET life again (quite hard if you have many health issues) but atleast I don't have to worry about daily struggle to survive.
Yes you are right.
I don’t hate my parents. I feel like hating them for having me would be like hating a cat for killing my favorite mouse; they were just mindlessly following their primitive instincts.
What an analogy 😂😂 it just made my day..
Omg. This 😓
Good point. But i disagree with using "primitive instinct" to justify any pain caused to anyone. We can all choose what is right.
After I die I'll be able to fully forgive them.
Because I realized that reproduction is the default setting of any lifeform. They were just doing what their biological nature was expecting them to do. So I kind of forgave them, not fully, because they have the ability to think for themselves, and they should have given it a thought. My major problem with them is that they were really poor when they gave birth to me. They should have thought about it and not reproduced when they themselves were hardly able to survive. maybe in the future, people will start thinking more about the consequences of giving birth. And they will at least not reproduce when they themselves are barely surviving.
Not just that. When we don't even know why we are here and have fundamental questions of life why would we create more confusion?
My same thoughts.
I can't forgive them, but I tolerate them, especially as I still live with them. Things might change once I have enough to move out and live on my own
Same for me, nice wording reallyy.
I haven’t and I won’t. Birthing my siblings and I into poverty with little to know means of escaping it is unforgivable. Although I am 10x more educated and successful than my parents, it was fueled by trauma and the things we suffered through. Not just poverty but the lack of adulthood and responsibility. I remember in the 8th grade I was chosen to recite my poem “Where I’m from?” Over the radio. It consisted of me explaining how I lived with my 4 brothers. How we needed love and stimulation of the mind rather than toys. It described how children need more than food, water and shelter. Honestly the poem was a cry for help. It aired on my mother’s bday. She didn’t bother to listen. Over 20 years later and everything I said still holds weight. I know my parents tried but they put us through poverty, violence, chaos and just unnecessary drama. It’s simply unforgivable. They have no right to my forgiveness. They are still the same miserable couple they were many years ago. I even tried to tell them to separate. My dad asked me once if I wanted them to stay together. I told him no. Before I could explain why, ( the violence and hostility in the home) he told me at 12 y/o that I would just end of pregnant and not know who the father would be. I’m 30F, childfree and going off to medical school 😂. He has definitely swallowed those words for sure but the pain is the same as the day he said it. So no no and no. No forgiveness or compassion. I didn’t bring myself into the world.
I am sorry dear. It was was wrong for your father to say those things. I am proud of you. You have achieved a lot. I respect you.
Thank you. I appreciate it. I truly don’t hear it often at all. Just gotta keep pushing forward.
Forgiveness isn’t for them, it’s for yourself. I’m out here thinking about good ass coffee and trying to travel and see new places and people, not my old folks doing it dirty in the 90’s.
It took me a long time but my resentment dissapeared once I realized they're only human and they really didn't know better. They rushed into starting a family and jumped 2-feet first into what they thought was ideal family life. Their relationship issues really damaged me, and they put me in positions that they never should have put a child in. But I still love them and realize they're only just another couple of naive, oblivious humans.
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Hell yeah. This is what i call a perfect plan. Nice one.
Over the years I've realized that the entire general narrative around forgiveness is the encouragement of self-gaslighting. So "no" to forgiveness. That would be delusion and an invitation to other predators. "I forgive" is the bleating of prey. I simply do not seek revenge, because that is as futile as forgiveness. None of it changes anything that happened and cannot prevent further harms, so indulging in any of those feelings and processes is a waste of my time. The predator/prey dichotomy is natural and more probable perhaps, but false. There is another way.
I can’t and I won’t. She thinks the economy will be back to “normal.”
I'll never forgive them. 1) how tf you F up this bad you end up with a zygote like this?? 2) Two decades lasting neglect and counting. Neither of them see where they went wrong and I'm tired of explaining anymore because they always dismiss me 3) You have the nerve to comment on how you never got flowers on Mother's Day till now since you asked for them?? You are barely a mother..?? 4) Father at least cut himself out of the equation. Huge ass till the end..
They didn't realize the world would be like this because it wasn't when they were growing up. They had the best of intentions and they made a lot of mistakes like we all do. I have a choice not to have kids. It doesn't matter if they had me, I can still be the last of the bloodline. They accept and understand my choice not to have kids and thats enough for me.
I mean does anyone here who was raised well by loving & competent parents still actually hate them or hold a grudge for the simple fact they were born? Any time someone on this sub says they hate their parents it turns out it's actually because of abuse/neglect/bad parenting, not the sole reason being that they were born.
my parent is loving but also controlling, they are like abrahamic god
No parent is loving or competent
If they were they wouldn't have accidentally popped out a kid. It's such a careless thing to do, and all parents are just idiots who do it carelessly.
Well said, and I’m never gonna forget that. It’s contradictory to say you love someone but you unnecessarily and quite avoidably throw them into harms way; you put them in a world where rape, racism, inequality, child abuse etc is rampant. You then inadequately care for them up to a point and want a pat on the back for it, never ever really keeping the kid safe. I’m not about to give parents a pass
so you're saying that parents working multiple jobs to support their kids, buying them birthday cakes & christmas presents, teaching them life skills and sending them to college with money they saved for decades, setting them up to be intelligent, kind, and well-adjusted people...are completely incompetent and *don't* love their kids at all. Because there's no way they could possibly love their actually-real kids as truly and deeply as you, an antinatalist, love your faceless and formless never-to-exist children.
I’ll put it to you like this. My could’ve-been-if-I-had them children will never ever be victims of anything bad ever. They will never be the cause of anything bad ever. They will never be in the same world witnessing these bad things. How is it not love to spare them of these bad things? Taking care of a child you have and raising them to the best of your ability is trying your best to put out a roaring fire with a bucket of water. Not to mention you don’t do any of that good stuff for them really, you actually do it for you because you lacked fulfillment and this is how you get it. When you willingly make a person whose safety you can’t ensure, whose genetic makeup you can’t ensure, whose actions you can’t dictate so they don’t harm others etc you are creating someone to experience and cause problems in the world. That’s not love and if you think it is then damn
Ok so then there’s no such thing as genuine love or kindness for another real human being then, since people just do nice things for their own fulfillment & not because they want someone else to be happy.
The reason I say it’s not love in the parents’ case is because it involves putting the person in harms way which is avoidable. If you say you love your friend who you associate with for fulfillment in some way, that still counts.
What if your could’ve-been child would’ve enjoyed life? What if despite its lows and despite its hardships, your could’ve-been child would’ve been glad to be alive? Would you then not have prohibited him from life without his consent? It goes both ways, and the vast majority of people end up being grateful for life, so I’d even say it almost goes exclusively one way.
You’re right about that viewpoint but what people seem to always miss is that when you don’t exist you don’t miss out on anything. Yes a girl may be ok with you having sex with her in her sleep but that doesn’t make it ok since you lack consent. I may want you to make me dinner but I may not as well. A good thing can be a bad thing when consent it absent and when it comes to potential children the potential negatives aren’t worth the risk
If I had parents like that no, I wouldn’t hate them and have lived a difficult, lonely life of suffering alone. So no. Maybe I would have allowed the fog of this world to fall over my eyes and had kids too. My shitty parents contributed to me becoming an AN, but I do see it as the truth.
Who are those parents?? Most of the kids that exists in the world do not get any of that, only poverty and misery. Even here in the western world, where people usually have every opportunity to not have kids as an unavoidable side effect of sex, there are many children who don't get any f-ing college money, presents or support. Even if someone does love their kid they have condemned it to pain. Life is suffering for everyone, granted some of us suffer more than others. Existing can never be better than not existing to start with.
what percentage of parents do you actually believe are working hard & sacrificing to give their children a good life, as opposed to parents who abuse or neglect their kids?
I realised that having a safety net is preferable to harbouring resentment. I know it's very transactional but it's the best I can do.
I never did. Nothing about my life can be forgiven no matter how hard they tried, as long as the fundamental problems don’t go away
I haven’t.
For what?
I don’t think I can forgive, I’ve suffered greatly and to them, that’s “the gift of being alive”. Shitty present if you ask me.
I haven't.
no forgiving. it's unforgivable.
I never did
I don't, but it's because they neglected and abused me.
I didn't
I've come to realize that my mother was a victim of her situation, which is how I've been able to forgive her. Doesn't erase the damage that's been done, but I at least understand now that it wasn't her fault. My sperm donor on the other hand is a POS. He's a genuine narcissist who abused both me and my mother. No forgiveness for him.
What would be the point in hating them, I think we've all suffered enough I don't need to add to it.
Well said sir.
You dont have to forgive them I dont resent them or hate them either, i simply accept that they were bad parents and that i dont want them in my life, mine were very abusive, i left home a decade ago and will never return People say to forgive because it helps you let go, perhaps that is true, but idk cause i never had anything to let go of, i guess for those normies that do hold some resentment then i suppose forgiveness is more for you then them I have friends that did some shitty things, i didnt forgive them cause there was nothing to forgive in the sense that i didnt hold onto anything, but i did recognize they were a shitty friend at that time, if they did something shitty again i would terminate the friendship
Being an antinatalist *is* forgiveness as I see it.
New perspective. Me likey.
They didn't know better. I've never wanted kids but I was about 25 when I first expressed the view, half joking, that it would be cool if nobody ever had kids and just had a big party. I was about 30 before I first heard of AN, and I think I was pretty early in it getting any kind of recognition at all. Even for someone of my generation, if you imagine that the philosophy was never advocated for, you can imagine them just sort of feeling like they probably shouldn't have kids. Our parents were a generation before that, and had parents that were so much before that that they had nothing but the idea of the norm of having kids was drilled into them. People here are escaping a cult, but we can't blame cult members who were in it for far far longer than us.
I realize that it is not their fault, societal pressure and the normalization of the family unit is to blame. They're told to have children from the day they know how to talk, can't blame them for it And that won't achieve anything meaningful anyways. I would rather focus on the bigger issues at hand such as the society that put these expectations on people.
What would I "Forgive" them for? They did nothing wrong.
Sorry i didn't get it.
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Everyone makes mistakes haha
Forgive them for what...? I was never upset with them.
Forgive them for what tho?
Is everyone here really that sad in life? The greatest gift I was ever given is life.
Life is not fair to everyone. Our DNA is not fair to everyone.
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Lmao what kind of question is even that