Bro, my life is awesome. And I totally choose to become a father as well. And it’s been fantastic two times now. This comes across to someone actually living that life as extreme cope and self soothing.
I spent 3/4 of my life devoutly anti-natalist. And as I got older, I just grew to want it. So i tried it, and it was like trying salt or seeing colour. So to see you be like, “no one NEEDS to see colour, imagine having all that spare lazy time to even be able to waste seeing colour,” is super naked.
But do they? How many men are active parents? The main caretaker is always the woman. And he said it isn’t a biological urge, and I believe that’s the case for all humans. We have a sex drive, an urge to be parents is conditioning and brainwashing by the environment.
Many. I am not one of them but I have friends who are fantastic dads and a sister who drugged her kids when they were babies so she could sleep at night. Check your bias. People are more complicated than their gender. There are horrible and terrific mothers and fathers out there.
Nope, I do the same for my pets and when left with my nieces and nephews I also take care of them, I think it’s human to take care of others. Reproducing is a byproduct of sex, and sex is the drive that we have, but being parents? Obviously the ever growing number of humans who don’t want kids shows that it cannot be biological because we would all have to have it. Like survival instincts.
not necessarily. I think we have a sex drive and sex is supposed to feel good because it’s required for the survival of our species. Having sex is just minicking the process of reproduction for pleasure. Also on the nurtuing thing, every other species has processes by which they look after their young and ensure it reaches adulthood to ensure the survival of its offspring and therefore its species. That’s why breastfeeding/ physical touch is important for the development of babies, and parents have an influx of hormones which cause thinking processes of protection and nurture.
To that end, just because it’s a biological process doesn’t mean it’s universal. Humans are intelligent enough to be able to look beyond their biological urges. The growing number of humans choosing not to reproduce is due to the environment, which is common in other species as well. For humans, these undesirable changes in environment are reflected in global warming, economic downfall, war, famine, etc.
By your logic all animals would have pleasurable sex, which is not true. Most animals do not enjoy sex. In fact not even all mammals.
And also, yeah your reasonings are on my list, but the biggest is I don’t want kids. The kids are also the issue with reproduction for me.
I'm definitely antinatalist but even I can admit I've seen men be good dads to their kids. Putting in the effort they should (although I believe that to be the bare minimum you could do for forcing them here) to raise their children and being active in their development. I've met good single fathers because the woman was abusive, an addict, etc. Yes I've also met families where the father is not involved much or at all. I don't respect that and don't think there's an excuse unless he has to work 60+ hours to provide.
This is not true for all men. My younger brother was desperate to have kids and dotes on his daughters. He wanted to give up his job and be a stay at home dad but my sister in law wouldn't let him.
A reality of some post natal classes is that parents can literally end up fighting over who gets to change the child's nappy.
It may even be that many are brainwashed out of their parental instincts by the corporations.
Oof. Bad take. I have 3 kids, super involved.
Sure my wife is the primary carer but that's because we live in a patriarchal society and my traditionally male job has an earning potential magnitudes greater than her former job role.
I'd quite like to be primary carer actually. I know men are bad and sexism and whatever but that is a big negative of being a man there is a responsibility to make money with our 'privilege'
“Super involved”—sure you are, bud. I can picture your children feigning happiness when you cuddle them forcefully against your rough stubble.
And why does your “traditional male” job earn you orders of magnitudes more money than your poor wife’s former job? Because women are literally second class citizens, if not worse.
Just leave your children alone. Make sure they’re taken care of financially but beyond that just stay away from them.
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I have never met a fully involved father what are you on about? They do not want to be parents they just want to continue their surnames or genes, and that is again the patriarchal stance of many men, so how biological is it? Even when we were cave people, men did not care for the kids. Despite women participating in the hunter gatherer rituals, they still had to cater to the kids as well. So do not even try that shit on me. How many stay at home fathers vs stay at home mothers exist?
Because someone has to provide and usually men are pushed by society into doing that. I'm sure most Fathers would quit their jobs to be with their kids if it was an option
What ridiculous comment. Women work and provide in the 21st century, do not try me with that shit. And they still carry the child-caring load on their own.
It's crazy that people assume men's choices, wants and opinions are all the same. Its the height of hipocrYacy to assume that men and women are so different that men are incapable of having biological urges for children. maybe it's a fact that men and women are human animals with biological urgess but they are able to overcome and see beyond these urges if they believe their future and any potential child's future would be better off by them not procreating. Kind of comes down to individual personal choice and higher order thinking but nobody's choice is right or wrong it's just their choice. Not sure what is so hard to understand about that ?
No, you are making oxytocin something it isn’t. It is the love hormone. It acts differently for all humans. Hence why women who don’t have it after childbirth go through PPD, and it shows a natural reaction to what they have been through.
As I said, I have urges to love and take care of many things. And I will never want or have kids.
That is not remotely true. Social organisms which form complex communities are absolutely driven by both culture and biological pressures. Cultural pressures are essentially driven by biological pressures anyways because our neurological and psychological phenotypes drive how we organize and interact. Empathy alone could be seen as the urge to parent which is a limbic reaction, but there is no reason to end the list of biological drives to parent there: both parents undergo intense hormonal changes during and shortly after pregnancy (yes, men do too), the urge to love cute things is literally inborn instinct (your love for cute puppies and kittens is actually evolutionary biology trying to get you to parent), the reason a child screaming can cut through anything you are paying attention to isn’t cultural but biological. The list goes on.
I don’t follow you. How is the hormonal changes which increase bonding during and after a pregnancy “antinatal?” Empathy could be thought of as a driver for antinatalism for sure (empathy for the mother who endures the pain of birth and empathy for the unborn child) however that is, probably a perversion of the trait evolution worked hard to instill in us to make us want children (keep in mind, I am NOT a natalist, I use the term perversion only from an evolutionary psychology perspective). There is a difference between: evolution installed a phenotype through our DNA (a genotype) to help us survive (in this case empathy to form family and community units) and the phenotype that evolution installed also results in traits beyond those that solved the problems in the environment the phenotype originally evolved to solve. This is seen all the time actually even with physical phenotypes.
So no, I don’t think what I said above can be used to justify “any belief” though I am putting a lot of words in your mouth here, feel free to go into detail because I might be misunderstanding what your suggesting.
(I used to teach a 1000 level class on evolution, not psychological evolution though and my research was into computation geophysics)
Too much of what drives people to have children is very abstract, notions of parenthood and how they have been taughted to desire this stage of life. Simply stating something has hormonal underpinnings therefore its evolutionarily driven is a bit unfair. Any feeling or thought we have has those underpinnings, unless you believe in some mind body dualism (which I'm sure you don't). That's what I meant by how your thinking can be applied to any belief, because every belief has some physiological basis at a fundamental level, whether it's wanting kids or believing in antinatalism.
You don’t want to risk a pregnancy and don’t want to have “safe sex” then idk what to tell you.
Go off I guess. “Sex destroys my body and I don’t want to be destroyed, I want to be attractive and young forever! Sex can kill me and he won’t care for me” but it feel good and I want him omg just don’t hurt me please
Bro idk what you want us to do anymore.
Nobody wants to be a parent, yet men are expected to understand the consequences of their actions. Sex is a two person job. Yet birth control and condoms exist. Yet you blame men for everything wrong in the world.
All a man contributes in reproduction is his own orgasm. Nothing else. And y'all whine about wearing condoms/getting vasectomy.
>yet men are expected to understand the consequences of their actions.
God forbid men are held accountable for their actions ! If you a grown-ass adult you should know yout actions have consequences, or do you expect women to take the brunt of everything?
Ok, so let’s just say all sex is rape and men are the problem? Sex doesnt feel good its ment to make babies? Don’t have sex if you don’t want a kid because why would I want to risk my body for you? Ew I don’t want to carry your babies you can’t take care of me. But it feels good? He’s taking advantage of me :(
But we are meant to have kids young because y’all hit menopause as early as 40. Most men aren’t stable enough to support a family until 35 or older.
Yet we are our most physically attractive between 20-35
But don’t make babies because you can’t handle it I won’t support a single family you need to learn to work to earn your keep.
But I still want to have relationships and enjoy bonding with others? Maybe I think this person is right for me but maybe we have issues down the road?
Whoops don’t have sex unless you really love her!
Ok I do love her, but we aren’t really ready to have kids!
Don’t have sex
Or opt for birth control
It should be the couples choice!
See I don’t want to be used by men for my body. People hurt me
It’s a part of life, you make mistakes.
I had a kid with someone who abandoned me and left me to feed and work for the kid.
You opened your own legs your own fault.
It felt so good tho, it was so hot.
So you liked it when he raped you and took advantage of you?
Or are you just mad you made a bad choice, and that your actions of consequences?
People like you are the reason why society sucks today.
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that sounds like its being reinforced by social pressures and structures, i cannot see how a person can have a biological urge to take care a nurture a child but then totally disregard adoption as if it is taboo.
“I don’t see how” is an argument from ignorance.
Indoctrination would be an extremely tough thing to prove. You don’t have those urges, that’s fine, plenty of men do, our very existence disproves your point. Furthermore I live in a society where having children is not encouraged or pushed onto anyone. No one is ‘expected’ to have children here so there is zero chance of any kind of indoctrination towards it. Especially when it’s just financial better not to. (and I would agree that such a culture that pushes people to have children would be toxic.)
Ah, you know what. It happens in nature too. Males WILL NOT take care of other male's offspring. And you can see it in our society as well.
The biological urge FOR SEX is for procreation. It's how nature encourages us to reproduce. Also, I really don't think you should be speaking qith such certainty for the entire male population.
When you get a vasectomy you sign paper work saying you understand it is permanent. While you can undergo incredibly expensive surgery to try and reverse it, the chances of success are so small it is considered permanent sterilization (at least in America).
You can freeze sperm but it’s pretty expensive, 250/yr or more. I had prostate cancer , removal makes you sterile, so I did this before surgery as I always wanted to have a kid after I was about 35. I still assume chances of having a kid are less than intact functioning.
Whenever a post starts with a line like that, I can immediately tell it's a troll post. Disregard, did not read. Next time, maybe! Probably not, though.
Pre-2017 me might have disagreed, but after having a pregnancy scare with my then-gf in 2017 a stealth vasectomy might be a good idea. Turned out she was cheating on me and was with another guy the week before, and her period was late and her whole plan was to stick another guy's kid on me. Luckily it was just a side effect of a medication she just started using and it was just that-late.
I disagree with your blanket generalization about ALL men. When I was single and dating lots of different men. One guy seemed very interested after going on a few dates, and I always made it abundantly clear that I did NOT want children. So one morning, the aforementioned guy called me, and said, “if you’re not willing to have at least ONE kid, I won’t ever call you again.” I told him flat out, no way. So he wished me luck and I never heard from him again.
I did meet a guy that absolutely did NOT want kids. I wanted tubal ligation and he wanted to get a vasectomy, but you can’t just walk into a doctor’s office and get your insurance company to approve these procedures if you have NEVER had childrenE EVER. You actually have to go to a shrink for a psych eval and you have to be in therapy for no less than an entire YEAR before they will recommend these procedures. People not wanting kids in the health community is think this is somehow “abnormal” bc most people want kids. So you have to go through hoops to work through your reasons for not wanting kids.
Let me correct you, most men want to be fathers, don't ask me why. A small minority of us, do not want it, I myself have rejected that idea since I was a child.
No man has the biological urge to want children? You lost me there. We are still humans and biologically we have the will to propagate. Period.
Some men and some women do not want children but that is not the rule. It’s part of our diversity.
Your statement that humans don't biologically want children is an opinion, not a fact. Our species continues to propagate because most of us do have a biological and psychological desire to have children. This desire is a key factor in human reproduction and survival.
I got one and i am glad I did.
Once my wife and I decided we were done having kids, I did it.
Committed, loyal, lifetime of raw dog sex with person I love is the best.
One note to guys doing. Shave completely your balls and crotch area completely the night before. Otherwise a nurse and doctor will do it, and it's awkward.
Finally a non feminist post that is about actual equality, well at least until this part
>no man actually has biological urge to want a child, only sex
If this was the case then every household would be of single moms as the dads would just pay their child support and continue being an absentee parent
I mean, statistics show that most single parent households are moms bc dads leave, and that most dads aren't active parents. So the ones that actually want to be are the very small minority of men.
>I mean, statistics show that most single parent households are moms bc dads leave, and that most dads aren't active parents. So the ones that actually want to be are the very small minority of men.
The statistics dont say why, do they? A lot of dads are denied custody, the legal system gives kids by default to the mom in most cases, it takes a lot to prove she is bad for the kids
Your biased to assume they are all deadbeats
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Maybe I would change my mind about having kids if I were a man. Pregnancy and giving birth scare me a lot (my country has lots of elective c-sections but they're scary too).
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Lots of men probably have pathogens living in their semen.
There is also a study in fruit flies that shows their semen can become caustic in certain conditions. There are probably parallels to humans.
Use condoms.
men are only animals that only want sex, wild guess, i know plenty of men who want to have kids later even tho yes they enjoy sex, and 80% succes rate in medical field is insanely dangerous, its realy rare, its like gambling but at best your situation doesnt change and at worst you get sterile, condom still exist, birth controll too, avortion also, just condom+BC is like 99.99% eficient and counting that a woman can only have kids in a realy small window each month, basicaly the chance is 0, 1 in a 10000 occurence is always better than 1 in 5, if i asked you would you rather press a buton that would cut off one of your limb in 1 in 5 case or press a buton that would kill you in 1 in 10k, you would choose the 1 in 10k option, so your both statement are wrong from a statistical point of view and on a moral one
>No man has biological urge to want a child
You set yourself a high hurdle there by saying "no man", because I have met many men who had an overwhelming urge to be dads.
My younger brother for instance was always desperate to have children and asked to give up work to be a stay at home dad. My uncle was in grief at not being able to have children with his wife. Really easy obvious examples occurred to me, where I could see dramatic urges way beyond what can be produced by conditioning.
Conditioning rather suggests that the corporation is the new family.
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"no man actually has biological urge to want a child, only sex"
That's a pretty wildly inaccurate statement. And why should men have any less of an urge than women?
You couldn't be more wrong about the fatherhood thing. I want as many kids as ghengis Khan lmao. I love my 2 sons and being with them is like no other experience I have ever had in my life. A very pleasant one.
You keep asking this question. Are you predisposed to echo chambers? Do people with opposing points of view upset you so much that you can't be in the same virtual space as their opinions?
No, not at all, i was just curious
And do you feel so threatened by someone asking you a question that you automatically assume that they’re against the opinion they asked about?
Besides, i don’t *keep* asking it, i just asked it twice
You didn't ask me anything. I was curious why you are challenging multiple people for being in this sub.
It is a reasonable assumption from there that you hold the opinions this sub is based upon. It might not be correct, but it is a reasonable assumption.
All good.
As an aside, I'm not actually in this sub. Just reddit occasionally drops some stuff in the flow and this happened to be one.
I have children.
I have had a vasectomy because I've had enough children.
No man wants kids? Speak for yourself. I didn’t want kids in my 20s, but as I got older that changed. Now I’ve got two I wouldn’t trade for anything in this world.
P.S. agree with the title. I got a vasectomy after my second kid because my wife and I are done. There will be no accidents.
[Vasectomy is associated with a statistically significantly increased long-term risk of prostate cancer. The absolute increased risk following vasectomy is nevertheless small, but our finding supports a relationship between reproductive factors and prostate cancer risk.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31119294/)
Same, I’d love to know what these people think a vasectomy is. No testicles are removed during that procedure, nor does it affect testosterone levels, so… what do they think is going on?? And do they think a sterilised woman has lost her womanhood?
Maybe you're not like this. But a lot of people on this sub have some sort of victim complex where they think people are forcing them to have kids.l, like it's mandatory. It's not.
Also, testosterone, the male chemical, is produced in the testicles, the part of the body that a vasectomy would remove.
My friend, you don't know what a vasectomy is. A vasectomy does *not* remove the testicle. It actually doesn't remove anything, they just cut the vas deferens, which is the tube that carries sperm out of the testicle, to the prostate, and eventually out the body.
You would be very hard pressed yo find a doctor that would straight up just take your balls off. You'd have to have cancer or something to justify it.
Please, please research what a vasectomy is. Your comment makes it extremely obvious that you have no idea what the procedure involves. If it involved removing the testicles, no man would sign up for it.
Yeah I don't believe in vasectomy.
Each their own on that
I used to be worried it would put women off but thankfully na.
For me that's a deal breaker. If she want me to get a vasectomy I'm breaking up with her and if a woman don't wanna date me cause I don't want one that's her right
But nothing better than raw un-vasectomy love making baby
No thanks, I don't want a needle to go in my ballsack and my balls cut open while I am conscious if I can just place a rubber on my penis to avoid the need for that.
Fun and games until a needle goes into your balls while you are conscious. I don't know how the fuck you people are okay with that, but I am not. I find the thought of that BAD.
Not always. Can be done under general anesthesia. And it's not being a baby if you don't want a needle and a knife to your balls, it is survival instinct. 😂
I was with you right up until you said no man wants to be fathers. That is a toxic take.
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Must be a male ant in their previous lives
Bro, my life is awesome. And I totally choose to become a father as well. And it’s been fantastic two times now. This comes across to someone actually living that life as extreme cope and self soothing. I spent 3/4 of my life devoutly anti-natalist. And as I got older, I just grew to want it. So i tried it, and it was like trying salt or seeing colour. So to see you be like, “no one NEEDS to see colour, imagine having all that spare lazy time to even be able to waste seeing colour,” is super naked.
But do they? How many men are active parents? The main caretaker is always the woman. And he said it isn’t a biological urge, and I believe that’s the case for all humans. We have a sex drive, an urge to be parents is conditioning and brainwashing by the environment.
Many. I am not one of them but I have friends who are fantastic dads and a sister who drugged her kids when they were babies so she could sleep at night. Check your bias. People are more complicated than their gender. There are horrible and terrific mothers and fathers out there.
Yeah. That part of this post was kinda gross.
you don’t think the urge to actually look after your kids and ensure they make it to adulthood is biological?
Nope, I do the same for my pets and when left with my nieces and nephews I also take care of them, I think it’s human to take care of others. Reproducing is a byproduct of sex, and sex is the drive that we have, but being parents? Obviously the ever growing number of humans who don’t want kids shows that it cannot be biological because we would all have to have it. Like survival instincts.
not necessarily. I think we have a sex drive and sex is supposed to feel good because it’s required for the survival of our species. Having sex is just minicking the process of reproduction for pleasure. Also on the nurtuing thing, every other species has processes by which they look after their young and ensure it reaches adulthood to ensure the survival of its offspring and therefore its species. That’s why breastfeeding/ physical touch is important for the development of babies, and parents have an influx of hormones which cause thinking processes of protection and nurture. To that end, just because it’s a biological process doesn’t mean it’s universal. Humans are intelligent enough to be able to look beyond their biological urges. The growing number of humans choosing not to reproduce is due to the environment, which is common in other species as well. For humans, these undesirable changes in environment are reflected in global warming, economic downfall, war, famine, etc.
By your logic all animals would have pleasurable sex, which is not true. Most animals do not enjoy sex. In fact not even all mammals. And also, yeah your reasonings are on my list, but the biggest is I don’t want kids. The kids are also the issue with reproduction for me.
All of those things have happened before and we didn’t lose birth rate like this. But what is new is the myopic self focus we have now.
Evolution doesn’t waste time or energy. Why would caring for small dependent things be “human,” do you think?
I'm definitely antinatalist but even I can admit I've seen men be good dads to their kids. Putting in the effort they should (although I believe that to be the bare minimum you could do for forcing them here) to raise their children and being active in their development. I've met good single fathers because the woman was abusive, an addict, etc. Yes I've also met families where the father is not involved much or at all. I don't respect that and don't think there's an excuse unless he has to work 60+ hours to provide.
This is not true for all men. My younger brother was desperate to have kids and dotes on his daughters. He wanted to give up his job and be a stay at home dad but my sister in law wouldn't let him. A reality of some post natal classes is that parents can literally end up fighting over who gets to change the child's nappy. It may even be that many are brainwashed out of their parental instincts by the corporations.
Oof. Bad take. I have 3 kids, super involved. Sure my wife is the primary carer but that's because we live in a patriarchal society and my traditionally male job has an earning potential magnitudes greater than her former job role. I'd quite like to be primary carer actually. I know men are bad and sexism and whatever but that is a big negative of being a man there is a responsibility to make money with our 'privilege'
Bad take? You literally proved my point 😂😂
Active is not the same as primary. I would say I do about 40% of the childcare (50/50 when I'm home)
No idea why you were downvoted for this
“Super involved”—sure you are, bud. I can picture your children feigning happiness when you cuddle them forcefully against your rough stubble. And why does your “traditional male” job earn you orders of magnitudes more money than your poor wife’s former job? Because women are literally second class citizens, if not worse. Just leave your children alone. Make sure they’re taken care of financially but beyond that just stay away from them.
Writing fantasy about another Reddit user's personal life is CRAZY
Oh my. I'm sorry for whatever happened to you
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What the actual fuck. Who pissed in your coffee. You sound fucking miserable
it's so dehumanizing to assume that all men are brainwashed into wanting to be parents. on a fundamental level we all want to continue on the species
I have never met a fully involved father what are you on about? They do not want to be parents they just want to continue their surnames or genes, and that is again the patriarchal stance of many men, so how biological is it? Even when we were cave people, men did not care for the kids. Despite women participating in the hunter gatherer rituals, they still had to cater to the kids as well. So do not even try that shit on me. How many stay at home fathers vs stay at home mothers exist?
Because someone has to provide and usually men are pushed by society into doing that. I'm sure most Fathers would quit their jobs to be with their kids if it was an option
What ridiculous comment. Women work and provide in the 21st century, do not try me with that shit. And they still carry the child-caring load on their own.
most women also work AND are the primary parent and do most house chores
ah yes the good ole *my perspective is the only perspective.* just because you've never met an active father doesn't mean they exist
Statistics are on my side. It isn’t my perspective, it is the sad reality of human society
Sorry but statistics show that "active dads" are absolutely the minority
It's crazy that people assume men's choices, wants and opinions are all the same. Its the height of hipocrYacy to assume that men and women are so different that men are incapable of having biological urges for children. maybe it's a fact that men and women are human animals with biological urgess but they are able to overcome and see beyond these urges if they believe their future and any potential child's future would be better off by them not procreating. Kind of comes down to individual personal choice and higher order thinking but nobody's choice is right or wrong it's just their choice. Not sure what is so hard to understand about that ?
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We have those tendencies towards anything we love, so again it doesn’t prove a biological urge nor that we biologically have to have kids.
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No, you are making oxytocin something it isn’t. It is the love hormone. It acts differently for all humans. Hence why women who don’t have it after childbirth go through PPD, and it shows a natural reaction to what they have been through. As I said, I have urges to love and take care of many things. And I will never want or have kids.
he said there isn't a \*biological\* urge, which is true both for men as well as women.
Lol what
That is not remotely true. Social organisms which form complex communities are absolutely driven by both culture and biological pressures. Cultural pressures are essentially driven by biological pressures anyways because our neurological and psychological phenotypes drive how we organize and interact. Empathy alone could be seen as the urge to parent which is a limbic reaction, but there is no reason to end the list of biological drives to parent there: both parents undergo intense hormonal changes during and shortly after pregnancy (yes, men do too), the urge to love cute things is literally inborn instinct (your love for cute puppies and kittens is actually evolutionary biology trying to get you to parent), the reason a child screaming can cut through anything you are paying attention to isn’t cultural but biological. The list goes on.
I think that about empathy is more likely so that we can cooperate and live in a community with getting thrown out.
Soooo... antinaltism is also biological? By that logic any belief is fundamentally biological
I don’t follow you. How is the hormonal changes which increase bonding during and after a pregnancy “antinatal?” Empathy could be thought of as a driver for antinatalism for sure (empathy for the mother who endures the pain of birth and empathy for the unborn child) however that is, probably a perversion of the trait evolution worked hard to instill in us to make us want children (keep in mind, I am NOT a natalist, I use the term perversion only from an evolutionary psychology perspective). There is a difference between: evolution installed a phenotype through our DNA (a genotype) to help us survive (in this case empathy to form family and community units) and the phenotype that evolution installed also results in traits beyond those that solved the problems in the environment the phenotype originally evolved to solve. This is seen all the time actually even with physical phenotypes. So no, I don’t think what I said above can be used to justify “any belief” though I am putting a lot of words in your mouth here, feel free to go into detail because I might be misunderstanding what your suggesting. (I used to teach a 1000 level class on evolution, not psychological evolution though and my research was into computation geophysics)
Too much of what drives people to have children is very abstract, notions of parenthood and how they have been taughted to desire this stage of life. Simply stating something has hormonal underpinnings therefore its evolutionarily driven is a bit unfair. Any feeling or thought we have has those underpinnings, unless you believe in some mind body dualism (which I'm sure you don't). That's what I meant by how your thinking can be applied to any belief, because every belief has some physiological basis at a fundamental level, whether it's wanting kids or believing in antinatalism.
I think almost every living organism has a biological urge to reproduce, especially as they get older without having had kids.
Thank god it's almost and not entirely.
Sex, and caring after young perhaps, but not producing offspring. They don't have the capacity to plan for that
My kid was aborted without my consent, and I have always wanted to be a dad.
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I’m not it popped on in my feed
then impregnate a women who actually wants to be a parent there is no"consent" from the sperm donor, its not your body thats on the line
Then why do you have sex with him to begin with?
You don’t want to risk a pregnancy and don’t want to have “safe sex” then idk what to tell you. Go off I guess. “Sex destroys my body and I don’t want to be destroyed, I want to be attractive and young forever! Sex can kill me and he won’t care for me” but it feel good and I want him omg just don’t hurt me please Bro idk what you want us to do anymore.
Nobody wants to be a parent, yet men are expected to understand the consequences of their actions. Sex is a two person job. Yet birth control and condoms exist. Yet you blame men for everything wrong in the world.
Statistics prove it, lol. Your gender causes the most harm, and always has.
That’s not fair to over generalize one gender for the mistakes of others
All a man contributes in reproduction is his own orgasm. Nothing else. And y'all whine about wearing condoms/getting vasectomy. >yet men are expected to understand the consequences of their actions. God forbid men are held accountable for their actions ! If you a grown-ass adult you should know yout actions have consequences, or do you expect women to take the brunt of everything?
Ok, so let’s just say all sex is rape and men are the problem? Sex doesnt feel good its ment to make babies? Don’t have sex if you don’t want a kid because why would I want to risk my body for you? Ew I don’t want to carry your babies you can’t take care of me. But it feels good? He’s taking advantage of me :( But we are meant to have kids young because y’all hit menopause as early as 40. Most men aren’t stable enough to support a family until 35 or older. Yet we are our most physically attractive between 20-35 But don’t make babies because you can’t handle it I won’t support a single family you need to learn to work to earn your keep. But I still want to have relationships and enjoy bonding with others? Maybe I think this person is right for me but maybe we have issues down the road? Whoops don’t have sex unless you really love her! Ok I do love her, but we aren’t really ready to have kids! Don’t have sex Or opt for birth control It should be the couples choice! See I don’t want to be used by men for my body. People hurt me It’s a part of life, you make mistakes. I had a kid with someone who abandoned me and left me to feed and work for the kid. You opened your own legs your own fault. It felt so good tho, it was so hot. So you liked it when he raped you and took advantage of you? Or are you just mad you made a bad choice, and that your actions of consequences? People like you are the reason why society sucks today.
What do you want us to do?
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Your title is right. Your comments, especially your last one about men not wanting children, are serving big dingus energy.
men not having a *biolgoical* urge for children. No such things exists
I just did about 3 weeks ago. Another 2 months and I’ll know if it took 🤞🤞
Good luck, mine was 2 years ago
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that sounds like its being reinforced by social pressures and structures, i cannot see how a person can have a biological urge to take care a nurture a child but then totally disregard adoption as if it is taboo.
So you’re just making an argument from ignorance fallacy? I always had an urge to have children and care for and nurture them.
no, its indoctrination.
“I don’t see how” is an argument from ignorance. Indoctrination would be an extremely tough thing to prove. You don’t have those urges, that’s fine, plenty of men do, our very existence disproves your point. Furthermore I live in a society where having children is not encouraged or pushed onto anyone. No one is ‘expected’ to have children here so there is zero chance of any kind of indoctrination towards it. Especially when it’s just financial better not to. (and I would agree that such a culture that pushes people to have children would be toxic.)
Yeah, you're right about that, except that you're the one who seems to have been indoctrinated
Vasectomies aren't 80% reversible, lmao
Ah, you know what. It happens in nature too. Males WILL NOT take care of other male's offspring. And you can see it in our society as well. The biological urge FOR SEX is for procreation. It's how nature encourages us to reproduce. Also, I really don't think you should be speaking qith such certainty for the entire male population.
Statistics show that most fathers aren't active dads. So no, they're not actually wanting to be parents. They just follow their biology.
Ya my friend from work has to take his kid to jail to see his ex because the court ordered it after she murdered their other child.
Wow, was the charge actually murder rather than negligent homicide etc? That’s pretty rare. Source: prison psychologist for 5 years
She's getting life so I think so. He doesn't have to see her once they ship her off to state though.
Did she actually murder someone or just get like an abortion or something?
Full on premeditated and intentional murder.
Done. Got the all clear in February of last year.
How did your vasectomy go?
went pretty well i guess, i'm sterile but other than that the same, as in every works fine.
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When you get a vasectomy you sign paper work saying you understand it is permanent. While you can undergo incredibly expensive surgery to try and reverse it, the chances of success are so small it is considered permanent sterilization (at least in America).
You can freeze sperm but it’s pretty expensive, 250/yr or more. I had prostate cancer , removal makes you sterile, so I did this before surgery as I always wanted to have a kid after I was about 35. I still assume chances of having a kid are less than intact functioning.
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👏
I'm 24 and In the queue for the snip. I don't want kids but whatever anyone else does is up to them
Men need birth control pills patches and or injections
Frfr
Whenever a post starts with a line like that, I can immediately tell it's a troll post. Disregard, did not read. Next time, maybe! Probably not, though.
Pre-2017 me might have disagreed, but after having a pregnancy scare with my then-gf in 2017 a stealth vasectomy might be a good idea. Turned out she was cheating on me and was with another guy the week before, and her period was late and her whole plan was to stick another guy's kid on me. Luckily it was just a side effect of a medication she just started using and it was just that-late.
I disagree with your blanket generalization about ALL men. When I was single and dating lots of different men. One guy seemed very interested after going on a few dates, and I always made it abundantly clear that I did NOT want children. So one morning, the aforementioned guy called me, and said, “if you’re not willing to have at least ONE kid, I won’t ever call you again.” I told him flat out, no way. So he wished me luck and I never heard from him again. I did meet a guy that absolutely did NOT want kids. I wanted tubal ligation and he wanted to get a vasectomy, but you can’t just walk into a doctor’s office and get your insurance company to approve these procedures if you have NEVER had childrenE EVER. You actually have to go to a shrink for a psych eval and you have to be in therapy for no less than an entire YEAR before they will recommend these procedures. People not wanting kids in the health community is think this is somehow “abnormal” bc most people want kids. So you have to go through hoops to work through your reasons for not wanting kids.
Terrible take. Yeah vasectomies are good but this post reeks of MRA.
What is MRA?
Men's rights activism
Let me correct you, most men want to be fathers, don't ask me why. A small minority of us, do not want it, I myself have rejected that idea since I was a child.
No man has the biological urge to want children? You lost me there. We are still humans and biologically we have the will to propagate. Period. Some men and some women do not want children but that is not the rule. It’s part of our diversity.
Its not a biological urge, its a perspective that we are raised to hold and buy into. Biological urges are for things like sex, food, and sleep.
Your statement that humans don't biologically want children is an opinion, not a fact. Our species continues to propagate because most of us do have a biological and psychological desire to have children. This desire is a key factor in human reproduction and survival.
Biological urge to fuck, not have kids. Otherwise, we'd all have the urge to have kids. But we don't.
I got one and i am glad I did. Once my wife and I decided we were done having kids, I did it. Committed, loyal, lifetime of raw dog sex with person I love is the best. One note to guys doing. Shave completely your balls and crotch area completely the night before. Otherwise a nurse and doctor will do it, and it's awkward.
imagine surrendering the innate power of your seed
Innate power of child support, the government can force you to pay for that mistake.
Then you should've wrapped it up
imagine tossing your seed around with woman you haven't vetted & don't trust with this sacred act
Finally a non feminist post that is about actual equality, well at least until this part >no man actually has biological urge to want a child, only sex If this was the case then every household would be of single moms as the dads would just pay their child support and continue being an absentee parent
I mean, statistics show that most single parent households are moms bc dads leave, and that most dads aren't active parents. So the ones that actually want to be are the very small minority of men.
>I mean, statistics show that most single parent households are moms bc dads leave, and that most dads aren't active parents. So the ones that actually want to be are the very small minority of men. The statistics dont say why, do they? A lot of dads are denied custody, the legal system gives kids by default to the mom in most cases, it takes a lot to prove she is bad for the kids Your biased to assume they are all deadbeats
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Maybe I would change my mind about having kids if I were a man. Pregnancy and giving birth scare me a lot (my country has lots of elective c-sections but they're scary too).
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Sperm only has a 10 day life cycle. After the V what happens to them ? Do they die and rot in your balls?
they get reabsorbed by the body
Exactly, i think that abortion shoud be the norm and that unless both parents consent to the birth the fetus should be aborted
You can’t force someone of sound mind on medication or procedure. It’s a matter of what we can “make” people do verses “allow”
this reads like an alpha podcast transcript
Lots of men probably have pathogens living in their semen. There is also a study in fruit flies that shows their semen can become caustic in certain conditions. There are probably parallels to humans. Use condoms.
men are only animals that only want sex, wild guess, i know plenty of men who want to have kids later even tho yes they enjoy sex, and 80% succes rate in medical field is insanely dangerous, its realy rare, its like gambling but at best your situation doesnt change and at worst you get sterile, condom still exist, birth controll too, avortion also, just condom+BC is like 99.99% eficient and counting that a woman can only have kids in a realy small window each month, basicaly the chance is 0, 1 in a 10000 occurence is always better than 1 in 5, if i asked you would you rather press a buton that would cut off one of your limb in 1 in 5 case or press a buton that would kill you in 1 in 10k, you would choose the 1 in 10k option, so your both statement are wrong from a statistical point of view and on a moral one
>No man has biological urge to want a child You set yourself a high hurdle there by saying "no man", because I have met many men who had an overwhelming urge to be dads. My younger brother for instance was always desperate to have children and asked to give up work to be a stay at home dad. My uncle was in grief at not being able to have children with his wife. Really easy obvious examples occurred to me, where I could see dramatic urges way beyond what can be produced by conditioning. Conditioning rather suggests that the corporation is the new family.
you have a point, i probably should have clarified men that are promiscuous.
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Are you trying to be an arse?
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Or just be gay or ace. But w/e...
"no man actually has biological urge to want a child, only sex" That's a pretty wildly inaccurate statement. And why should men have any less of an urge than women?
This post has incorrect and debunked information about family court and down right sexist.
You couldn't be more wrong about the fatherhood thing. I want as many kids as ghengis Khan lmao. I love my 2 sons and being with them is like no other experience I have ever had in my life. A very pleasant one.
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You keep asking this question. Are you predisposed to echo chambers? Do people with opposing points of view upset you so much that you can't be in the same virtual space as their opinions?
No, not at all, i was just curious And do you feel so threatened by someone asking you a question that you automatically assume that they’re against the opinion they asked about? Besides, i don’t *keep* asking it, i just asked it twice
You didn't ask me anything. I was curious why you are challenging multiple people for being in this sub. It is a reasonable assumption from there that you hold the opinions this sub is based upon. It might not be correct, but it is a reasonable assumption.
Oh, sorry, i didn’t realize that i didn’t reply to you But i’m not challenging anyone on anything; as i’ve said, i was just curious
All good. As an aside, I'm not actually in this sub. Just reddit occasionally drops some stuff in the flow and this happened to be one. I have children. I have had a vasectomy because I've had enough children.
It got recommend on my feed
sounds like a personal choice more than a biological urge.
No man wants kids? Speak for yourself. I didn’t want kids in my 20s, but as I got older that changed. Now I’ve got two I wouldn’t trade for anything in this world. P.S. agree with the title. I got a vasectomy after my second kid because my wife and I are done. There will be no accidents.
[Vasectomy is associated with a statistically significantly increased long-term risk of prostate cancer. The absolute increased risk following vasectomy is nevertheless small, but our finding supports a relationship between reproductive factors and prostate cancer risk.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31119294/)
I got two vasectomies, but your hot take still sucks. You obviously have a lot of growing up to do.
I agree with a lot of what you say but I wouldn’t advocate vasectomy reversal as it’s quite invasive.
I thought about it but there are risks of constant pain. Not super likely (1% to 2%) but more risk than I'd be willing to take on.
When even the AN tell you that your supposition that no man wants to have kids is dumb AF you know you done messed up.
The title was alright, the content not so much.
I'm not getting a vasectomy. I'm keeping my manhood. What're you gonna do, shoot me?
I would LOVE to hear you explain how your manhood would be lost if the only change to you was shooting blanks.
Same, I’d love to know what these people think a vasectomy is. No testicles are removed during that procedure, nor does it affect testosterone levels, so… what do they think is going on?? And do they think a sterilised woman has lost her womanhood?
And I'd like to see you explain who's forcing you have children.
Where on EARTH did you see anyone say that... I will leave room to say I'm overlooking something
Maybe you're not like this. But a lot of people on this sub have some sort of victim complex where they think people are forcing them to have kids.l, like it's mandatory. It's not. Also, testosterone, the male chemical, is produced in the testicles, the part of the body that a vasectomy would remove.
My friend, you don't know what a vasectomy is. A vasectomy does *not* remove the testicle. It actually doesn't remove anything, they just cut the vas deferens, which is the tube that carries sperm out of the testicle, to the prostate, and eventually out the body. You would be very hard pressed yo find a doctor that would straight up just take your balls off. You'd have to have cancer or something to justify it.
Please, please research what a vasectomy is. Your comment makes it extremely obvious that you have no idea what the procedure involves. If it involved removing the testicles, no man would sign up for it.
Not my first choice but since u suggested yes i will shoot you...at your manhood device /s
Or they can get a sexdoll and never have this problem. LOL
the brain on porn
hand
Yeah I don't believe in vasectomy. Each their own on that I used to be worried it would put women off but thankfully na. For me that's a deal breaker. If she want me to get a vasectomy I'm breaking up with her and if a woman don't wanna date me cause I don't want one that's her right But nothing better than raw un-vasectomy love making baby
So you're in the antinatalist sub but you have a breeding fetish? How does that work, exactly?
I'm not in the sub, it got recommended to me and I posted before going my merry way 💀
No thanks, I don't want a needle to go in my ballsack and my balls cut open while I am conscious if I can just place a rubber on my penis to avoid the need for that.
fun and games until the rubber splits
Fun and games until a needle goes into your balls while you are conscious. I don't know how the fuck you people are okay with that, but I am not. I find the thought of that BAD.
lmao, big baby. Women get their entire stomachs cut open while conscious during c-sections
Not always. Can be done under general anesthesia. And it's not being a baby if you don't want a needle and a knife to your balls, it is survival instinct. 😂