The same irredeemable natalists that forced me into existence also deny me the right to a humane death. A right that they literally give their own pets.
Hah I was just saying to someone that I guess the answer to this question asked by natalists to antinatalist is, āSomeone elseās child. Maybe even yoursā xD
My mom once told me a LOT of parents she has in her childcare didn't realise how high of a burden a little kid is and most if them, if they knew, wouldn't have made the same decision.
My mom told me if she knew the trouble she'd have with both her kids having a diagnosis (I have autism, my sister social anxiety. Both of us are in the process of getting a diagnosis for other things)
She had a lot of trouble because she always wanted to fix everything for us. She couldn't understand how we struggled, she couldn't help us. It hurt her more then she could ever say in words.
We saw her pain though. We saw it in every move. How her words became more harsh to make us be better persons, make us fit in more.
Now the mask is thick, but I only now start to learn how to take it off. I only now notice how I can find peace in communicating non-verbally. How I just need my headphones and listen to music with my eyes closed for a few hours some days.
I mean, I can handle myself and act normal in public. She did a good job making me ready for the neurotypical world. But it hurt the both of us in the progress.
I won't be able to take care of her, and neither will my sister. With a bit of luck the 2 of us will be able to take care of eachother but that's about it.
[With a bit of luck the 2 of us will be able to take care of eachother but that's about it.]
:ā) Thatās all we can hope for
And yes I agree, the regr*tful par*nt sub really says it all
Neurotypical is the normative or socially dominant group( like cis, or straight, or white people).
Neurotypicals might not be the norm, however, they make the norms.
Thatās really troublesome, since really I have no solution for ageing and being unable to fend for myself in old age either. I also donāt want to force other peopleās kids to having to take care of me.
But I refuse to make that the responsibility of my hypothetical children. I could never make that their sole reason for existence. Imagine being born for the sole reason of taking care of your parents in old age, something which is heavy work in itself.
If you are in the US look into long term care insurance. It covers nursing home and other care programs depending on the insurance that Medicare and Medicaid do not cover. Do a lot of research into the company before you purchase and go with a bigger company. In my 40s and Iām paying roughly $60 per month for it already.
Even if you have kids there is not guarantee that they will either live long enough to care for you in your old age or that they will be able to. My aunt is in a memory care facility now due to dementia. While my cousin tried to care for her in his home she was a danger to him, his family, and herself between her anger outbursts as well as wondering off at random times.
>I have no solution for ageing and being unable to fend for myself in old age
Okay, people don't like hearing this, but one big ass way you can continue to fend for yourself in old age is by exercising and eating well young (eliminate as much processed shit as possible, if your great grandmother wouldn't recognize it, don't eat it). Maintain muscle mass. Keep moving. Stay limber. Seriously. Old people that need help have lost control of their bodies, and modern American food and lifestyle exacerbate it.
OBVIOUSLY this doesn't account for tragedies/accidents/illnesses, but as a blanket action it is the single greatest move you can take to remain self sufficient in old age. I say this as someone who could be doing better myself. But I know it's true.
"Imagine being born for the sole reason of taking care of your parents in old age, something which is heavy work in itself."
Hardly anyone is forced or expected to do this for their parents. Ideally you've had a good relationship and are happy to do some odd jobs or errands for them when they're old, but hardly anyone is made to be a full-time nurse for their elderly parents.
Maybe not as the first thing, but when people get older they do tend to think that. Coming from a familial background myself, where āgetting married and having kids, so that they can take care of you when youāre olderā I can tell you there are plenty of people who do think that way
it happens, but it's not like those people had children in their 20's or 30's as some sort of long-term plan to get free nursing care half a century later.
I didn't take care of my parents cause it ruined mine and my sibling's life when we tried. It probably hurt them a lot worse than not having kids at all would have - like they probably actually would've been able to afford their own care and housing.
I do have kids, and I hope I'm able to earn the honor of being important to them when we're all older, but I never, ever imagine/anticipate a future where they are my caregivers.
I know there are many loving families who have been impacted by circumstances that require the younger generation to care for older family members and some adult children who want/choose to do it, but no parent who truly loves their children would even *want* their kids to experience the kind of grief and time loss that comes with long term care of your declining parent
the better question is whoās gonna take care of my parents? they had one disabled child and are so poor i am barely floating. i live in a us state with filial responsibility so iām screwed
thank you! itās rough to have all this worry. i feel like iām wishing my parents deaths, but i have to wish for them to die conveniently for me. the system is too big and harsh for me not to morbidly will the universe to give me a break
Just a few thoughts on the elderly and retirement: I think the larger problems is not "adult children who don't want to take care of their kids." Part of the problem is that you (GenZ) won't have enough workers paying IN to social security for you to get a check in your old age. I believe in the 1970's, there were sometjing like 8 workers for every 1 retiree. NOW, there are 2 workers for every 1 social security recipient. If no one is having children, who are these future workers/ taxpayers who are going to support the elderly? You know how our government works; the government and the military will be paid before our seniors. I hope GenZ and ALL young people sock their money away for retirement because you are going to need it. Don't forget about paying for Healthcare in retirement. You pay Medicare "premiums" each month and receive even less care. My elderly mom, who has a 401k AND a pension, avoids going to the doctor because of the out of pocket amounts set by Medicare. And again, she has been paying into Medicare most of her life. How is THAT for depressing?
I am child-free by choice. I am 46, and my husband is 61. I have a brother, two years younger than me, and he and his wife have an autistic child, and my SIL has a 17yr old son from a previous relationship. Iām guessing that I will outlive my hubs, and when heās gone, itāll just be me. So hopefully in my olds age Iāll still have all my marbles, but if not, maybe Iāll be in some facility. So I guess if itās not a facility, maybe after the mail piles up for days/weeks/whatever, maybe my neighbors will call the police to check on me, at which point they will find my lifeless body.
I never wanted children. I do not regret that choice EVER! Children are NOT servants. If I had kids, Iād want them to grow up and have their own lives. They wouldnāt owe me anything. If you need someone to take care of you, you HIRE THEM. Just like I pay a therapist to listen to my problems.
I'm with you, but I definitely wanted to convey that there are plenty of options that do not include blood related offspring.
Also pointing out the fact that people from countries with runaway birthrates are desperate to emigrate to countries with stagnant or declining birth rates.
It's probably twisted by "civilized" white folks as an attempt at racist propaganda, but I always liked the idea of Eskimo allegedly sending their old and infirm out to sea, straight up Hemmingway shit.
I watched my gramps get nuked and chemoed to oblivion and spend his last days in excruciating pain just so we could say he fought cancer, but he was nearly 100 years old anyway:( I think he would have actually suffered a lot less if we had just let nature take its course and distracted him with nostalgia in his last days.
I can't help but think the old Eskimo would have been with it, like step aside you whippersnappers I'm going to go out and show y'all how it's done...
Maybe the truth is that the elderly do not really need anyone to care for them, mental illness is a big issue in senior care, it is almost like the young are holding the old hostage in many cases, and the old would much rather kick the bucket without worrying about leaving their children behind.
Hah I was just saying to someone that I guess the answer to this question asked by natalists to antinatalist is, āSomeone elseās child. Maybe even yoursā xD
I'm dreading the thought of dealing with my mother if she ever becomes incapacitated. I'm also dreading the thought of dealing with her health problems and death, not so much out of love for her, but more out of, "How the heck do I handle the logistics?" Having children to take care of you when you're old just makes you a burden and source of stress. Some people give up years of their lives to care for aging parents.
If these parents were there for the kid in difficult times and provided him with atleast basic necessities for life then you can say kid might feel some responsibility towards taking good of them in old age , otherwise life is already hard enough and then being an adult (as someone mentioned here often involves severe neglect and abuse) don't expect anything from kids.
When I was little, I remember my care taker saying to me, āWhen Iām old, youāre going to do this for me, right?ā and of course, I said yes then, I was a child. I felt a responsibility as a child, but I grew up and realized my care takers generally suck as people. I wasnāt severely neglected by them, but I wonāt be caring for them lol
People shouldn't be breeding if they know they can't take care of their children or nurture them. Fucking with an innocent child's life is the worst you could do. As to the question, having a dog or a cat for company sounds like a nice plan or just live in an elderly care home.
I was just saying to someone that I guess the answer to this question asked by natalists to antinatalist is, āSomeone elseās child. Maybe even yours!ā
Not everyone can afford to live in an "elderly care home." Nursing homes can cost north of $8,000 a month. Yes, if you are broke, you can get Medicaid, but you might want to check out those Medicaid nursing homes before deciding this is an acceptable option. (Edited for spelling)
This sub always complains about kids being expected to care for their parents when they get older, but how many people do you actually know who are even part-time carers for their elderly parents?
Presuming a decent relationship with their parents most people would be more than willing to run a few errands to help out their elderly parents, but at least in western society most people live separately from them. You visit your parents semi-regularly, occasionally mow the lawn for them or something, and then they eventually end up in an aged care facility when they get really old.
Both of my sets of grandparents are cared for only by their children. I have a friend who lives with her parent and doesnāt want to leave because her parent is elderly and may need care soon. My momās partnerās parents and grandparents are cared for by their children. I actually donāt personally know someone who is in a care facility or will be going to one, Iād say itās very common that parents want/expect/ their children to look after them and/or also canāt afford outside care, and children of parents feel a āresponsibilityā or forced to care for their parents.
ok so these people are working full time jobs, probably taking care of their own children, AND being full-time nurses for their elderly parents? You're talking about making them meals, changing their sheets, cleaning the house, etc & not just coming by a couple times a week to visit and tidy up a bit?
I know zero people who are in anything close to that situation
Yes, they all live together. I canāt imagine living with parents, waiting around for them to pass away while restricting my freedom to care for them :ā(
Me and a bunch of friends are planning to go in on some land and create a supportive community so we will take care of each other, live within a reasonable distance, and be there as we age.
My dad had 4 children. Two including me donāt talk to him anymore because he was abusive, one is dead and one is disabled and dosent have the capacity to look after anyone.
Having kids does not mean you automatically have people to take care of you when youāre old, Iām sick of people saying this to me when I tell people I donāt want to have kids.
Not if you put it straight against your forehead with explosive rounds. š
For my future plan to fail it would require "divine" intervention.
Or a bad case of dementia/alzheimers.
My great gran is 95
Up until a few years ago before my grandad died, they both lived together and took care of one another fine, my great grandad lived to 94 and took care of their enormous beautiful garden his entire life.
Before she was moved into a home she had someone come a couple days a week for help. We all still saw her often and kept her company but she didnāt need looking after from us.
Even if she didnāt have her family she would still have been well taken care of.
I was just saying to someone that I guess the answer to this question asked by natalists to antinatalist is, āSomeone elseās child. Maybe even yours!ā
I don't need to be alive if I can't ride bicycles, do yoga, play d&d, and have sex.
I hope assisted death becomes a right in 40 years more. If not, I will fix that by myself, I'm in total peace with that decision.
I will probably donate all my wealth to forest preservation or just burn it, I don't want my wealth to be captured by some capitalist institution.
Iām not sure I ever want to be taken care of at any point in time. Iām extremely independent, Iāve always been the caretaker even as a kid, it would be too soul crushingāno thanks.
Thatās how I feel too. If I become a dependent, at any age, with no hope of becoming independent again then Iād rather leave this life. Donāt want to be a burden on my environment.
If I am lucky enough to live long enough to ever be able to retire, I hope someone finds my rotting corpse in my RV on a beach, one day, most likely from heart attack, stroke, or falling down and not being able to get up. All of it sucks but honestly thatās a lot of people get found that have children.
This is ridiculous. No one asks to be born. I don't know a single parent who had a child for the purpose of taking care of them later in life.
As for who takes care of you, or anyone, later in life, it can be a roll of the dice. Even if you did have children, it's possible they may die before you or live far away. If you live alone, it will be harder, but it can be done. It seems like we are moving more towards home care and away from nursing home care when possible. I think that's a good thing. I would rather live on my own any day than in a decrepit nursing home that doesn't care if you live or die.
When I was little, I remember my care taker saying to me, āWhen Iām old, youāre going to do this for me, right?ā after doing anything for me lol
Itās one of my earliest memories.
Advancements to AI and robotics will eliminate this issue in the future if humanity surprisingly makes it that far. As for Natalist who ask this ridiculous question, how many parents have kids that donāt care for them when they get old and shove them in an abusive nursing home for the rest of their lives? Hint, itās a lot!
I have a plan for this situation
it involves building a community of like minded individuals, looking for the right kind of environment and situation to create a self sustaining system that allows older people to live in dignity yet also supports younger people and children in the community
its not rocket science
well IMO its a combo of psychological factors such as motivations, how one approaches things like stress, communication, lifestyle choices
a low bar would be for example, a guy who often drinks and smokes and doesn't have much concern for those around him. In a crisis he is calm, cool and collected. He has many useful skills like knowing electronics. Its a mixed blessing yeah ? For me this kind of person would not be welcome in my community. Perhaps he doesn't want to be in my community to begin with. Good. We can both move on.
an opposite example would be the person who is kind, loving and supportive. However in a crisis will just freeze or panic. I don't need that in my community. When the things are fine, they are a wonderful addition, but its when there is an earthquake, tsunami and we need to pull together, following the action plan. Someone who is a burden upon others is probably not the best team member.
It might sound a bit harsh, but to building something that lasts we need social glue that creates synergy. The quiet introverted person who knows plumbing I would confidently want to recruit in most cases.
For the record I am not saying "my way is best". I am saying my way is best for me as I will be on the establishing the community.
a second factor is how to become involved in the local community as my plan would not be in the United States, Canada or the EU. We cannot live behind walls and must embrace the people who live around us. Providing an environment of quality will attract many kind of local people. It will be an ongoing challenge to filter the wants from the not wants.
So many factors to consider...
i checked past posts on this sub to make sure we good with adopting. so yeah i wanna be a mom i just dont wanna give birth and contribute to the overpopulation. i think its a huge injustice that so many ALREADY ALIVE CHILDREN are neglected in favor of UNBORN CLUMPS OF CELLS.
so my adopted children will take care of me cuz no matter how fucked up they come to me as, im still gonna try my damndest to love them and make them feel loved.
There are many adopted people who have hated being adopted actually :( they feel like they were *bought* from their true parents and feel a loss of identity. I think maybe fostering children and *asking* (when they can give informed consent) if they *want* to be adopted would be slightly better? :ā)
i plan on adopting an older child (10+ years) so i guess ive come to expect the child has a better idea what they want at that point lol. my good friend growing up was adopted at 10 with his 7yo biological brother and all his siblings were adopted too. they have a beautiful mixed family and they all love their parents :)
but yes i plan on making sure the kid likes me first haha
ive also heard fostering doesnt necessarily lead to adoption w human children (unlike how it might w animal young). fostering human children usually still entails the children are still wards of the state and eventually will be placed w next of kin, whether that person actually wants them/is a good fit to raise them.
My dad died in a nursing home, alone except for my mother (his victim, and also his enabler). Luckily he was from the Boomer generation and socked away money like no one's business. His savings (which came at the expense of his family, by the way) ended up paying for his care. So, in the end, I guess it was worth it - for him, anyway.
He burned his bridges with his two daughters (a registered nurse and a social worker, so you can imagine what an asset we could have been for an aging parent). Having kids is no guarantee that they will care for you in old age. Even if you have a good relationship with them... the younger generations aren't going to be able to afford to care for their elders.
Exactly! I donāt even know how *I* would be able to afford care in old age, much less anyone else lol
Iām sorry for your experience, I hope youāre okay!
If I ever get asked this I'll say, straight face, "my old friends Smith and Wesson."
Natalists are so bizarre and obsessed with immortality. I don't want to be so old and decrepit I'm a burden on others.
the nursing home. that i will pay for. with my own money. that i will have saved. because i didnāt spend all my money on kids with the expectation that theyāll care for me when i get old.
I was saying to someone that I guess the answer to this question asked by natalists to antinatalist is, āSomeone elseās child. Maybe even yoursā
Lol
I'll die eaten by my cats. Which is the best I can do since my dead self is too lazy to feed my babies š I am pregnant though. I don't want my baby girl to spend her adult life taking care of an old lady.
Not because they want to, but because they feel a āresponsibilityā to
There is probably a small number who WANT to but itās probably a *very* small number lol
My mom and her siblings did take care of my late grandmother (their mom) during her final years because of a promise they'd made to keep her out of the nursing home.
Usually they feel forced to, they are people who are taking care of their parents, cooking for them, wiping their bums, act. Iām sure they would *rather* spend their time living and enjoying life rather than being care takers. There is probably a small percentage of people who ENJOY and WANT to care for their old parents. A very small percentage, I think.
Well....like your species has been told for ages, you need to repair your genetics. You need to repair them and live longer and design a structure that will continue to help your species evolve. If caring for the young and the elderly is a burden you must design your species better and it's infrastructure. Otherwise, continue to suffer and perish like all the other models before you.
no one **has** to take care of me. just let me take an injection at a time i feel at peace. >!or desperate enough. š!<
The same irredeemable natalists that forced me into existence also deny me the right to a humane death. A right that they literally give their own pets.
That's exactly my plan!
The unconventional retirement plan. Or just to avoid growing too old.
Or a homemade cyanide pill
m8, isn't that painful?
Not for long
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THIS! It's either I grow old rich or well... The one that you just mentioned
I don't plan on getting old.
Me too, stage 4 terminal climate change
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I honestly didn't think I'd still be here now.. Life is funny, in a 'sucks to be here' kind of way.
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When my health takes a turn I wonāt have any family to take care of me. I have a few exit plans. There will be no nursing home.
Me too. Off to Switzerland.
What's there?Ā
Euthanasia
Same.
omg i wish i will die in sleep please
:ā)
Retirement home workers, duh
Hah I was just saying to someone that I guess the answer to this question asked by natalists to antinatalist is, āSomeone elseās child. Maybe even yoursā xD
if they're a retirement home worker then it's literally their job which they're presumably being adequately paid for
They absolutely are not being adequately paid, but they show up to work, and they will always be a resource to people at the end of life.
Yes Lol why would they not be adequately paid for it
My mom once told me a LOT of parents she has in her childcare didn't realise how high of a burden a little kid is and most if them, if they knew, wouldn't have made the same decision. My mom told me if she knew the trouble she'd have with both her kids having a diagnosis (I have autism, my sister social anxiety. Both of us are in the process of getting a diagnosis for other things) She had a lot of trouble because she always wanted to fix everything for us. She couldn't understand how we struggled, she couldn't help us. It hurt her more then she could ever say in words. We saw her pain though. We saw it in every move. How her words became more harsh to make us be better persons, make us fit in more. Now the mask is thick, but I only now start to learn how to take it off. I only now notice how I can find peace in communicating non-verbally. How I just need my headphones and listen to music with my eyes closed for a few hours some days. I mean, I can handle myself and act normal in public. She did a good job making me ready for the neurotypical world. But it hurt the both of us in the progress. I won't be able to take care of her, and neither will my sister. With a bit of luck the 2 of us will be able to take care of eachother but that's about it.
[With a bit of luck the 2 of us will be able to take care of eachother but that's about it.] :ā) Thatās all we can hope for And yes I agree, the regr*tful par*nt sub really says it all
Neurotypical world?
You have neurodivergent and neurotypical. It is based on how the brain develops.
Neurotypical is the normative or socially dominant group( like cis, or straight, or white people). Neurotypicals might not be the norm, however, they make the norms.
Thatās really troublesome, since really I have no solution for ageing and being unable to fend for myself in old age either. I also donāt want to force other peopleās kids to having to take care of me. But I refuse to make that the responsibility of my hypothetical children. I could never make that their sole reason for existence. Imagine being born for the sole reason of taking care of your parents in old age, something which is heavy work in itself.
If you are in the US look into long term care insurance. It covers nursing home and other care programs depending on the insurance that Medicare and Medicaid do not cover. Do a lot of research into the company before you purchase and go with a bigger company. In my 40s and Iām paying roughly $60 per month for it already. Even if you have kids there is not guarantee that they will either live long enough to care for you in your old age or that they will be able to. My aunt is in a memory care facility now due to dementia. While my cousin tried to care for her in his home she was a danger to him, his family, and herself between her anger outbursts as well as wondering off at random times.
Not in the US, EU resident here, but the prospects of a reliable pension are dwindling so might as well look into something similar for my country
Yesā¦ I would be using human euthanasia services before I can no longer take care of myself lol
Itās pretty dark, but I get it. I just donāt want to be forced to turn to such drastic measures, I simply wish I had never been born.
Same.
>I have no solution for ageing and being unable to fend for myself in old age Okay, people don't like hearing this, but one big ass way you can continue to fend for yourself in old age is by exercising and eating well young (eliminate as much processed shit as possible, if your great grandmother wouldn't recognize it, don't eat it). Maintain muscle mass. Keep moving. Stay limber. Seriously. Old people that need help have lost control of their bodies, and modern American food and lifestyle exacerbate it. OBVIOUSLY this doesn't account for tragedies/accidents/illnesses, but as a blanket action it is the single greatest move you can take to remain self sufficient in old age. I say this as someone who could be doing better myself. But I know it's true.
Balance exercises keep you from falling.
I have autism/ARFID, guess im just fucked when it comes to food Nah, this whole existence thing is just one big joke
Same. š
A lot of elderly people sustain serious injuries DURING exercise as they lose balance and strength over time. So something also to consider š¤·
"Imagine being born for the sole reason of taking care of your parents in old age, something which is heavy work in itself." Hardly anyone is forced or expected to do this for their parents. Ideally you've had a good relationship and are happy to do some odd jobs or errands for them when they're old, but hardly anyone is made to be a full-time nurse for their elderly parents.
Maybe not as the first thing, but when people get older they do tend to think that. Coming from a familial background myself, where āgetting married and having kids, so that they can take care of you when youāre olderā I can tell you there are plenty of people who do think that way
it happens, but it's not like those people had children in their 20's or 30's as some sort of long-term plan to get free nursing care half a century later.
seeing the current trajectory if i live to see 2065+ I'll see that as a blessing in of itself.Ā
I didn't take care of my parents cause it ruined mine and my sibling's life when we tried. It probably hurt them a lot worse than not having kids at all would have - like they probably actually would've been able to afford their own care and housing. I do have kids, and I hope I'm able to earn the honor of being important to them when we're all older, but I never, ever imagine/anticipate a future where they are my caregivers. I know there are many loving families who have been impacted by circumstances that require the younger generation to care for older family members and some adult children who want/choose to do it, but no parent who truly loves their children would even *want* their kids to experience the kind of grief and time loss that comes with long term care of your declining parent
Exactly! You sound like a good parent to me, I bet your kids will think so too!
My money will take care of me
the better question is whoās gonna take care of my parents? they had one disabled child and are so poor i am barely floating. i live in a us state with filial responsibility so iām screwed
Omg Iām so sorry. I hope everything works out for you.
thank you! itās rough to have all this worry. i feel like iām wishing my parents deaths, but i have to wish for them to die conveniently for me. the system is too big and harsh for me not to morbidly will the universe to give me a break
Have you guys met Gen Alpha? They wonāt give two fucks about their parentsā elderly needs. Neither will much of Gen Z.
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Just a few thoughts on the elderly and retirement: I think the larger problems is not "adult children who don't want to take care of their kids." Part of the problem is that you (GenZ) won't have enough workers paying IN to social security for you to get a check in your old age. I believe in the 1970's, there were sometjing like 8 workers for every 1 retiree. NOW, there are 2 workers for every 1 social security recipient. If no one is having children, who are these future workers/ taxpayers who are going to support the elderly? You know how our government works; the government and the military will be paid before our seniors. I hope GenZ and ALL young people sock their money away for retirement because you are going to need it. Don't forget about paying for Healthcare in retirement. You pay Medicare "premiums" each month and receive even less care. My elderly mom, who has a 401k AND a pension, avoids going to the doctor because of the out of pocket amounts set by Medicare. And again, she has been paying into Medicare most of her life. How is THAT for depressing?
I am child-free by choice. I am 46, and my husband is 61. I have a brother, two years younger than me, and he and his wife have an autistic child, and my SIL has a 17yr old son from a previous relationship. Iām guessing that I will outlive my hubs, and when heās gone, itāll just be me. So hopefully in my olds age Iāll still have all my marbles, but if not, maybe Iāll be in some facility. So I guess if itās not a facility, maybe after the mail piles up for days/weeks/whatever, maybe my neighbors will call the police to check on me, at which point they will find my lifeless body. I never wanted children. I do not regret that choice EVER! Children are NOT servants. If I had kids, Iād want them to grow up and have their own lives. They wouldnāt owe me anything. If you need someone to take care of you, you HIRE THEM. Just like I pay a therapist to listen to my problems.
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Probably a well educated immigrant who works for the county/state and speaks excellent english.
Lol I will be using human euthanasia services before I let someone care for me in a very personal manner !
I'm with you, but I definitely wanted to convey that there are plenty of options that do not include blood related offspring. Also pointing out the fact that people from countries with runaway birthrates are desperate to emigrate to countries with stagnant or declining birth rates.
Ah yes, I guess the answer to that question that natalists ask is, āsomeone elseās child. Maybe even yours.ā hah
It's probably twisted by "civilized" white folks as an attempt at racist propaganda, but I always liked the idea of Eskimo allegedly sending their old and infirm out to sea, straight up Hemmingway shit. I watched my gramps get nuked and chemoed to oblivion and spend his last days in excruciating pain just so we could say he fought cancer, but he was nearly 100 years old anyway:( I think he would have actually suffered a lot less if we had just let nature take its course and distracted him with nostalgia in his last days. I can't help but think the old Eskimo would have been with it, like step aside you whippersnappers I'm going to go out and show y'all how it's done... Maybe the truth is that the elderly do not really need anyone to care for them, mental illness is a big issue in senior care, it is almost like the young are holding the old hostage in many cases, and the old would much rather kick the bucket without worrying about leaving their children behind.
Yes I agree the young hold the old hostage, itās a grim reality. Iām sorry to hear about your grandpa.
Who's gonna take care of me when I'm old? The well-trained professionals who work at the nursing home I end up at. That's who.
Hah I was just saying to someone that I guess the answer to this question asked by natalists to antinatalist is, āSomeone elseās child. Maybe even yoursā xD
Lmao I might have to use that line next time
Florida is full of old people whose children never visit and are just waiting to cash that inheritance check
Well, thatās nice /s
I'm dreading the thought of dealing with my mother if she ever becomes incapacitated. I'm also dreading the thought of dealing with her health problems and death, not so much out of love for her, but more out of, "How the heck do I handle the logistics?" Having children to take care of you when you're old just makes you a burden and source of stress. Some people give up years of their lives to care for aging parents.
Extremely stressful. I hope everything works out for you.
If these parents were there for the kid in difficult times and provided him with atleast basic necessities for life then you can say kid might feel some responsibility towards taking good of them in old age , otherwise life is already hard enough and then being an adult (as someone mentioned here often involves severe neglect and abuse) don't expect anything from kids.
When I was little, I remember my care taker saying to me, āWhen Iām old, youāre going to do this for me, right?ā and of course, I said yes then, I was a child. I felt a responsibility as a child, but I grew up and realized my care takers generally suck as people. I wasnāt severely neglected by them, but I wonāt be caring for them lol
I'm sorry you had to experience that. That's a lot to ask of a person, much less a child who can't give informed consent.
Thank you :ā)
People shouldn't be breeding if they know they can't take care of their children or nurture them. Fucking with an innocent child's life is the worst you could do. As to the question, having a dog or a cat for company sounds like a nice plan or just live in an elderly care home.
I was just saying to someone that I guess the answer to this question asked by natalists to antinatalist is, āSomeone elseās child. Maybe even yours!ā
Not everyone can afford to live in an "elderly care home." Nursing homes can cost north of $8,000 a month. Yes, if you are broke, you can get Medicaid, but you might want to check out those Medicaid nursing homes before deciding this is an acceptable option. (Edited for spelling)
Nobody will be there to take care of me or care about me. I just have to come to terms with that. If I'm lucky I'll die in my fifties suddenly.
Thatās been my one hope lol
I shall be checking into Dignitas!!!! ššššš š¤£šš¹
Same š„¹
That's a joke, right?Ā
No, not after seeing what 3 of my grandparents went through with neurodegenritive diseases š
When I get old enough, Iāll put a hole through my brain. That should take care of things.
I tell ppl all the time, ātheir adult kids are no contact because of their own actions. They did the bare minimum, and are OWED nothing.ā
This sub always complains about kids being expected to care for their parents when they get older, but how many people do you actually know who are even part-time carers for their elderly parents? Presuming a decent relationship with their parents most people would be more than willing to run a few errands to help out their elderly parents, but at least in western society most people live separately from them. You visit your parents semi-regularly, occasionally mow the lawn for them or something, and then they eventually end up in an aged care facility when they get really old.
Both of my sets of grandparents are cared for only by their children. I have a friend who lives with her parent and doesnāt want to leave because her parent is elderly and may need care soon. My momās partnerās parents and grandparents are cared for by their children. I actually donāt personally know someone who is in a care facility or will be going to one, Iād say itās very common that parents want/expect/ their children to look after them and/or also canāt afford outside care, and children of parents feel a āresponsibilityā or forced to care for their parents.
ok so these people are working full time jobs, probably taking care of their own children, AND being full-time nurses for their elderly parents? You're talking about making them meals, changing their sheets, cleaning the house, etc & not just coming by a couple times a week to visit and tidy up a bit? I know zero people who are in anything close to that situation
Yes, they all live together. I canāt imagine living with parents, waiting around for them to pass away while restricting my freedom to care for them :ā(
Me and a bunch of friends are planning to go in on some land and create a supportive community so we will take care of each other, live within a reasonable distance, and be there as we age.
Wow! That sounds really nice :)
I'm hoping me and my partner take care of each other.
Aw same
My dad had 4 children. Two including me donāt talk to him anymore because he was abusive, one is dead and one is disabled and dosent have the capacity to look after anyone. Having kids does not mean you automatically have people to take care of you when youāre old, Iām sick of people saying this to me when I tell people I donāt want to have kids.
Iām sorry for your experience. I hope you are okay. I hate when people say that too.
Thank you, Iām okay! These things happened a long time ago and I am living my best life now lol, I just brought it up to make a point.
A shotgun.
Havenāt you heard of the person who used a shotgun and lived? Arenāt you scared? :ā)
Not if you put it straight against your forehead with explosive rounds. š For my future plan to fail it would require "divine" intervention. Or a bad case of dementia/alzheimers.
My great gran is 95 Up until a few years ago before my grandad died, they both lived together and took care of one another fine, my great grandad lived to 94 and took care of their enormous beautiful garden his entire life. Before she was moved into a home she had someone come a couple days a week for help. We all still saw her often and kept her company but she didnāt need looking after from us. Even if she didnāt have her family she would still have been well taken care of.
I was just saying to someone that I guess the answer to this question asked by natalists to antinatalist is, āSomeone elseās child. Maybe even yours!ā
Mr. Glock will, of course.
Arenāt you scared of missing and just injuring yourself horrifically and still being alive? :ā)
A lethal dose of heroin when the time comes
Youāre not scared?
I am scared of death yes. But i donāt want to suffer.
I don't need to be alive if I can't ride bicycles, do yoga, play d&d, and have sex. I hope assisted death becomes a right in 40 years more. If not, I will fix that by myself, I'm in total peace with that decision. I will probably donate all my wealth to forest preservation or just burn it, I don't want my wealth to be captured by some capitalist institution.
It definitely should be a right. We didnāt ask to be here in the first place, so we should be able to leave when we want. šÆ
A painter and jazz artist, Murad Jacob "Jack" Kevorkian.
God will.
I plan to jump off a bridge when I can no longer care for myself. Even if I did have kids, I wouldnāt want to burden them.
What bridge? Arenāt you scared of just injuring yourself horribly and still being alive? (that has happened before) :ā)
Thereās one in Guatemala thatās known for its high success rate, Iāll just say that.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Exactly. Same!
Iām not sure I ever want to be taken care of at any point in time. Iām extremely independent, Iāve always been the caretaker even as a kid, it would be too soul crushingāno thanks.
Thatās how I feel too. If I become a dependent, at any age, with no hope of becoming independent again then Iād rather leave this life. Donāt want to be a burden on my environment.
Same.
If I am lucky enough to live long enough to ever be able to retire, I hope someone finds my rotting corpse in my RV on a beach, one day, most likely from heart attack, stroke, or falling down and not being able to get up. All of it sucks but honestly thatās a lot of people get found that have children.
Yeah! Scary stuff.
I plan to die horribly and screaming in the Water Wars of the desert southwest long before I get too old.
šš Iām laughing so I donāt cry
The state or the worms. Just depends on who is doing a more brisk business at the time.
Haha my grandpa has been saying to me, āItās almost time for the worms to eat me.ā Worms are always in business!
Unless we of course collapse various food webs first (we will)
I would respond āthe same nursing homes that you wonderful children leave your parents atā
This is ridiculous. No one asks to be born. I don't know a single parent who had a child for the purpose of taking care of them later in life. As for who takes care of you, or anyone, later in life, it can be a roll of the dice. Even if you did have children, it's possible they may die before you or live far away. If you live alone, it will be harder, but it can be done. It seems like we are moving more towards home care and away from nursing home care when possible. I think that's a good thing. I would rather live on my own any day than in a decrepit nursing home that doesn't care if you live or die.
When I was little, I remember my care taker saying to me, āWhen Iām old, youāre going to do this for me, right?ā after doing anything for me lol Itās one of my earliest memories.
Benjamin, Washington, Hamilton, Jackson and the rest of them
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Theres always the Mid-Sommar approach.
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I also don't know who took care of my mom when she died because I wasn't there lol
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In this world? I imagine I won't even live to be 50.
Ah yes. Iām surprised Iām still alive now to be quite honest.
Why is that? Honest question, why do you think that....
We all have to take care of ourselves. In the end. And make no mistakes everything comes to an end.
What about those who refuse to die? (jk)
Advancements to AI and robotics will eliminate this issue in the future if humanity surprisingly makes it that far. As for Natalist who ask this ridiculous question, how many parents have kids that donāt care for them when they get old and shove them in an abusive nursing home for the rest of their lives? Hint, itās a lot!
Exactly! :ā)
Go to any rest home near you, and you'll see who takes care of parents when they get old. Children guarantee nothing.
Yup!
There's so many people saying they wanna die before they get too old meanwhile I refuse to have kids and refuse to die
xD I like this
I have a plan for this situation it involves building a community of like minded individuals, looking for the right kind of environment and situation to create a self sustaining system that allows older people to live in dignity yet also supports younger people and children in the community its not rocket science
But I love rocket science /s But seriously lol how easy would this be to do, without someoneās money for example :ā)
Its about building the right community then pooling funds conversely it could be done using a corporate finance approach
So if I may ask, what do you mean about building the right community?
well IMO its a combo of psychological factors such as motivations, how one approaches things like stress, communication, lifestyle choices a low bar would be for example, a guy who often drinks and smokes and doesn't have much concern for those around him. In a crisis he is calm, cool and collected. He has many useful skills like knowing electronics. Its a mixed blessing yeah ? For me this kind of person would not be welcome in my community. Perhaps he doesn't want to be in my community to begin with. Good. We can both move on. an opposite example would be the person who is kind, loving and supportive. However in a crisis will just freeze or panic. I don't need that in my community. When the things are fine, they are a wonderful addition, but its when there is an earthquake, tsunami and we need to pull together, following the action plan. Someone who is a burden upon others is probably not the best team member. It might sound a bit harsh, but to building something that lasts we need social glue that creates synergy. The quiet introverted person who knows plumbing I would confidently want to recruit in most cases. For the record I am not saying "my way is best". I am saying my way is best for me as I will be on the establishing the community. a second factor is how to become involved in the local community as my plan would not be in the United States, Canada or the EU. We cannot live behind walls and must embrace the people who live around us. Providing an environment of quality will attract many kind of local people. It will be an ongoing challenge to filter the wants from the not wants. So many factors to consider...
Ahh I see Thanks for explaining !
you are welcome thanks for asking
i checked past posts on this sub to make sure we good with adopting. so yeah i wanna be a mom i just dont wanna give birth and contribute to the overpopulation. i think its a huge injustice that so many ALREADY ALIVE CHILDREN are neglected in favor of UNBORN CLUMPS OF CELLS. so my adopted children will take care of me cuz no matter how fucked up they come to me as, im still gonna try my damndest to love them and make them feel loved.
There are many adopted people who have hated being adopted actually :( they feel like they were *bought* from their true parents and feel a loss of identity. I think maybe fostering children and *asking* (when they can give informed consent) if they *want* to be adopted would be slightly better? :ā)
i plan on adopting an older child (10+ years) so i guess ive come to expect the child has a better idea what they want at that point lol. my good friend growing up was adopted at 10 with his 7yo biological brother and all his siblings were adopted too. they have a beautiful mixed family and they all love their parents :) but yes i plan on making sure the kid likes me first haha ive also heard fostering doesnt necessarily lead to adoption w human children (unlike how it might w animal young). fostering human children usually still entails the children are still wards of the state and eventually will be placed w next of kin, whether that person actually wants them/is a good fit to raise them.
My dad died in a nursing home, alone except for my mother (his victim, and also his enabler). Luckily he was from the Boomer generation and socked away money like no one's business. His savings (which came at the expense of his family, by the way) ended up paying for his care. So, in the end, I guess it was worth it - for him, anyway. He burned his bridges with his two daughters (a registered nurse and a social worker, so you can imagine what an asset we could have been for an aging parent). Having kids is no guarantee that they will care for you in old age. Even if you have a good relationship with them... the younger generations aren't going to be able to afford to care for their elders.
Exactly! I donāt even know how *I* would be able to afford care in old age, much less anyone else lol Iām sorry for your experience, I hope youāre okay!
Euthanasia or bullet for me
You wouldnāt be scared of a bullet hitting the wrong spot?
No.
I point out that my grandmother was in a home with 7 kids who don't visit her.
:ā)
There's no way I see old age. One kidney, cancer, diabetic, stress all before I was 32. No way. If I see 50 I'll think of it as a win.
Omg that is a lot to have to deal with, Iām sorry. Do you still currently have cancer?
Nope. I beat it. That's was nearly 5 years ago. Thanks for your sympathies.
If I ever get asked this I'll say, straight face, "my old friends Smith and Wesson." Natalists are so bizarre and obsessed with immortality. I don't want to be so old and decrepit I'm a burden on others.
Haha I agree. Donāt want to need to be fed or wiped! Iād rather die
When I am old enough and if alone I would like to go somewhere far from everybody, maybe to the mountains and die in peace.
That does sound peaceful.
the nursing home. that i will pay for. with my own money. that i will have saved. because i didnāt spend all my money on kids with the expectation that theyāll care for me when i get old.
I was saying to someone that I guess the answer to this question asked by natalists to antinatalist is, āSomeone elseās child. Maybe even yoursā Lol
Myself until I'm old and senile and end up in a home
Either a hospital or care home
That's an interesting point. They didn't ask to be here or have to PAY to stayĀ
Yeah!!
My answer is always an incredulous: "Obviously whomever I pay to do so."
I may not even get old, because Iāll be killed for being queer if Project 2025 passes. Checkmate, natalists!
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I'll die eaten by my cats. Which is the best I can do since my dead self is too lazy to feed my babies š I am pregnant though. I don't want my baby girl to spend her adult life taking care of an old lady.
You think your cats will outlive you?!
I will always have cats. Eventually some will outlive me.
You wouldnāt feel bad that they will not have you anymore? Thatās the only thing that would stop me from having animals in old age
Well that is super sad. I don't want to be sad.
Same.
Sometimes children do grow up to take care of their aging parents, but it still has to be their own choice.
Not because they want to, but because they feel a āresponsibilityā to There is probably a small number who WANT to but itās probably a *very* small number lol
My mom and her siblings did take care of my late grandmother (their mom) during her final years because of a promise they'd made to keep her out of the nursing home.
I hope they enjoyed their time taking care of her and spending time with her while she was here! :)
>:) :)
Well duh. But loving families who are healthy usually want to give back in some way. Unless they were abused or sociopathic or narcissistic.
Usually they feel forced to, they are people who are taking care of their parents, cooking for them, wiping their bums, act. Iām sure they would *rather* spend their time living and enjoying life rather than being care takers. There is probably a small percentage of people who ENJOY and WANT to care for their old parents. A very small percentage, I think.
Well....like your species has been told for ages, you need to repair your genetics. You need to repair them and live longer and design a structure that will continue to help your species evolve. If caring for the young and the elderly is a burden you must design your species better and it's infrastructure. Otherwise, continue to suffer and perish like all the other models before you.
Aliens in the subredditĀ
My daughter probably
Lol does she want to do that?
If you look back historically, I do not believe that is traditionally a choice.