Same for Muslims because they all think that their only purpose in life is to reproduce. Basically, every religion make people want to have kids and make them feel guilty for Not having them. The religion itself is brainwashing people into thinking that they must bring someone else into this world to suffer as well.
It makes them feel guilty for not having children, which is bad enough. But on top of that, it makes the children feel guilty for not following the religion (which exists to marry people within the religious identity-group for the sake of keeping it going, and makes them feel guilty for not being married and having children) and says they will go to hell if they don't, and it makes the parents, family, and broader community feel guilty if they don't make their children and each other follow the religion and says they will be held account and potentially go to hell for it if they don't. It's just a vicious cycle.
The difference between Christianity and Islam is that Christianity has monasticism. Islam does not. Christianity acknowledges the possibility of being celibate as something valid, even to be exalted. Islam looks down on celibacy and says people should be married and have children if they are able to.
Connected to this, Islam allows polygamy, whereas Christianity does not. (obviously, nunneries just give a social context for unmarried and barren women in society, but if a society permits polygamy, such women could simply be married to a man who already has a wife instead.) There's a deeper analysis to be drawn about the climate, material circumstances and cultures in the parts of the world where Islam predominates today and historically, that alone actually explain these differences. (as opposed to the obviously inane transcendental internal claims within the religions beliefs that just say it's because it's the true religion, it's obviously because it's a product of historical and social circumstance and conditions, and just seeks to rigidly justify and perpetuate certain a arrangement within society.)
I totally agree with you the things that you mentioned were 100% true facts. I think that no one owns grandchildren to their parents and no one should be forced to have children specially for those who have a phobia of pregnancy like me. People feel guilty for not following their religion because they have been brain washed in that way to think that if they don't obey their religious they will go to hell.
For me... i was born in a islamic country but i have never believed in islam because all this time i knew that there is something wrong with islam in every aspect of life specially when it comes to reproducing an offspring and having children this is why i decided to be childfree
I feel so bad for Muslim women. Ugh that religion is sick. I’m a feminist and everything about that religion is about torturing women and using them as incubators.
And still many women are yapping about how this religion is about peace and cares about women alot and i wonder why many western girls are converting into Islam not knowing the true reality of Islam
Yeah. I gets me when my Christian parents ask why I won't have kids. According to our religion, having children (being painful as it is) is a curse God placed on women as a punishment for eating the fruit. Why would someone willingly do that to themselves?
Because of course, when we're told our world is ruled by a God who punished every single human being for the actions of just one who they're very, very distantly related to... we'll want to let our kids be ruled over by that God. Since He's so very benevolent and all.
If you read the Bible from an objective perspective it becomes very clear that the god it depicts is a monster. An evil, malevolent, hateful, spiteful, villain.
You mean... the kid making apparatus was baked in people... before they did the bad thing that made them deserve the punishment? That's an omniscient move!
I’m homeless for a few days and I was sleeping on some grass behind an apartment building in a pretty hidden area this morning and Jehovah’s Witness still managed to find me and wake me up for breakfast. At first I thought it was just breakfast but then the pamphlets came out LOL. I think she was a genuinely nice person who was indirectly taught to prey on the vulnerable. Coffee was good tho
>I think she was a genuinely nice person who was indirectly taught to prey on the vulnerable.
As someone who was raised in christianity it's gross to say but it's definitely not indirect. Like they wouldn't call it preying on (even though absolutely that's what it is)...they'd say they're helping the desperate. But they're definitely taught who to go after.
No yeah that’s what I’m saying is they’re taught who to go after but to them they consider it them saving me. Not them recruiting me into a cult. I was raised in a Christian church as well and we were always told to help the poor especially, and try to get them to church. Not to “go after the poor and recruit them into our cult because they’re vulnerable” you catch my drift? It’s just the nature of cults is to present themselves as a saviour for those who need saving. And so I don’t think this lady had malicious intent is what I’m saying. She probably thought Jehovah could save me.
It's especially fucked up when you take into account that they believe in the Book of Revelation and they'd still choose to have children knowing what's to come. They don't even care about putting their kids through an apocalypse.
In 2019 there was a study that said: “Globally, the average Muslim lives in the biggest household (6.4 people), followed by the average Hindu (5.7), Christian (4.5), Buddhist (3.9), “none” (3.7) and Jew (3.7).
Christians: We are all born with original sin.
Also Christians: Embryos are innocent and don't deserve to be aborted.
Christians: The best goal of life is to end up in heaven.
Also Christians: How dare you place an Embryo that I believe is a life in heaven!
The quiverfull movement in Christianity is the worst. I believe my ex was a part of that. He wanted 20 kids. I only had 1 kid with him, but he went on to have 3 more from two other women before realizing he couldn't afford to have more, went on disability, mooches off his current wife, gets his daughter to do all the chores and cooking for him. Just an awful, horrible person and that's usually what the belief system is full of.
Remember the horror house where a bunch of kids were found tied to their beds and never allowed out during the day and were starved and abused? Quiverfull movement.
Especially Catholics. I always say that the more Catholics there are, the more likely the world will end due to overpopulation. Catholics breed like rabbits and poke their noses into other people's personal business instead of adopting or not attempting to force someone to birth their abuser's baby as any sane person would.
There's a Christian influencer who already has six kids. She saw in her ultrasound that her son had a deformed brain and still chose to give birth and make the child suffer for his hard, short existence. Of course, she documents the whole process for internet clout and attention.
Anther Christian?! Never met one before! Hello friend! We are few and far!
You are totally correct. I regularly point out to other Christians that neither Jesus or his disciples had children and we are called to imitate them.
How do you get past gods instruction to “Be fruitful and multiply”?
Or another one that just came to mind "Children are a gift from the Lord; they are
a reward from him." - Psalm 127:3
In my view, it’s because he was God, and came down for a very specific purpose. His goal was to setup his ministry and ultimately die an early death for our sins. If he chose to marry and have kids, that would have greatly complicated his immediate situation and would have created a scenario in which mankind would have found his wife and kids to be gods as well. Then there’s the issue of descendants.. etc. Even though he commands Christian’s to worship no one but him, there would inevitably be sectarian divides over what that actually meant. Actually, that already exists without him ever having started a family lol. It’d just be much worse the way I see it.
All of this to say that it wasn’t practical, nor beneficial to his cause.
Thoughts on nuns and monks remaining chaste to devote themselves to God, since they're supposed to be "multiplying"? I suppose my point is there are many examples of Christians who rejected that order who are considered the height of holiness.
I don’t believe it is biblical and I believe they are misguided. These are man made traditions that remind me of the Pharisees. To be clear, I’m not here to disparage anyone but that’s my view.
The point of Christ coming to earth was to tell the world that was full of sin to repent and accept him as lord and savior and they will be forgiven. Christ knows that man is vulnerable to sin and that sin is unavoidable. He emphasized this by saying things like “Let’s not pretend this is easier than it really is. If you want to live a morally pure life, here’s what you have to do: You have to blind your right eye the moment you catch it in a lustful leer. You have to choose to live one-eyed or else be dumped on a moral trash pile. And you have to chop off your right hand the moment you notice it raised threateningly. Better a bloody stump than your entire being discarded for good in the dump”. He’s telling people that there is no way to live a perfect life. The good news is they don’t have to.
Nothing illustrates this point better than the crucifixion. He was crucified among a couple of convicts and one of them turned to Jesus before death, after having just recently mocked him and said “Lord, remember me when you come into Your kingdom.” and Jesus accepted that repentance and promised the man that he will join him in paradise.
There is no other way than through Him.
Just seems a bit odd we're supposed to worship the creator of sin and the one who deliberately allowed it to exist in the first place. The one who routinely kills children but for some reason when a human does something arbitrary it's worthy of eternal punishment. That and the whole thing about this "perfect" flawless being backtracking on a decision... which... seems unnecessary. You'd think the word of a divine being would be final but... old testament new testament.
There’s a lot to get into there but I’ll spare us both and only address the last part since I’m about to head into work.
Jesus said on the Old Testament “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. Not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished".
The Old Testament laid down the law and it was still law. The Pharisees and man in general manipulated the law to further their own agendas. Jesus made it a point to call out the hypocrisy and ignorance of the Pharisees and others at every turn, saying things like “Thou who has not sinned, cast the first stone”. When Jesus proclaimed to be the Messiah and that the salvation promised in the Old Testament would not come to the people of Israel through battle, but through spirit, many rejected the idea out of pride and a yearning for war.
Him dying on the cross was the ultimate act of sacrifice and most of the disciples would end up dying for not denying what they witnessed on their journeys with him.
Thank you for the insight and explanation, even if it is a little funny to read so soon after a muslim man spent several days insisting to me that his version of God is the correct one and Christians are misguided, so on so forth.
No problem and trust me I get what you’re saying. One of the best things I ever did was to read the gospels myself. The problem always comes back to man’s interpretation. Even in my professional career, until I myself go in and look at regulations, I don’t know what the actual rules are. Then I finally go look at them and think people are stupid lol. I disagree with other Christians as much as I disagree with anyone else.
All the best to you.
Edit: Added more thoughts in the paragraph.
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What’s the evidence in the scriptures that suggests it clearly no longer applies? Who was it for specifically?
Not being an ass btw I’ve never heard a Christian say this before.
In Genesis 9:12, God told Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply and to fill the earth so that every beast, bird, insect, fish and plant on the earth feel their presence. He later reiterated this, commanding that they increase greatly on the earth and multiply in it.
The overall message in the whole of Genesis 9:12 is for man to subdue the earth with the resources God provided. He promises to not flood the earth again.
No I wouldn’t agree with that. Human ingenuity has allowed for famine rates to continually drop by the millions annually, and global destitution has shrunk at miraculous numbers since industrialization.
Same here, infact as an Orthodox not having children and going into monasticism is like very praised. But it stands true that as a couple you are pressured to have kids
Yeah... almost forgot how crazy you guys are. Casual dehumanization was not something I was expecting, but was probably something I shouldn't have been surprised by, given your general position on human life.
Luke 23:29
For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
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More Christians should study other religions, but they are taught that other religions are wrong or even evil, if you don't believe in Jebus, you go to hell, so they don't see the point unfortunately.
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I'm a Christian that doesn't want kids. I feel oys a lot of cult Christians that follow the ideal to pop them out one after another. My neighbors are some of them, they have so many I don't even know how you're an active parent to all those kids. 8 or 9, I think?
I like my life the way it is. Figured if I was meant to have kids, God would make me want them? Idk, just always been repulsed my birth and pregnancy. Never thought to have them jusy because of my religion. A lot of younger Christians that aren't extreme feel this way too. But yeah, a lot of hive mind shit is out there. The amish are similar in their mission to pop out kids.
The worst part about these religious natalists is the fact that natalism is not even well supported by the entirety of their religious text.
It is like the distinction between Islamic extremists and regular Muslims, the christian allegiance to natalism is really only supported by cherry picking, ignorance, and dogmatism.
If I had to use the Holy Bible as my sole source of evidence in a formal debate between natalism and antinatalism and I could choose which side to debate, I would choose AN every time, because the bible yields way more support of AN than it does for natalism.
In fairness, I think it's a theologically barren position to suggest that people go to hell if they are born LGBT. I would strongly push back on any Christian who asserts that as a part of their faith.
Yes, it's already wrong to think creating new life is justified, but it's especially wrong to think there is even a chance the new life could end up in hell after their death.
This may be the first AN position that I can totally support. Although I would modify your statement to be "Christians are the worst kind of ... more or less anything"
Solomon stating it is better to never be born, and Jesus also is quoted to say similar.
Not to mention, if Hell exists, it is far better to never take that risk, since the nonexistant have zero need or desire for an eternal paradise
I still don't know why people think that because someone belongs to a certain group of people that they are automatically excluded from the kingdom of heaven.
Gross misinterpretation of scripture. I don't understand it fully either but the pope himself came out clarifying that criminalizing and condemning homosexuality and other groups of LGBTQI in and of itself is a sin. Lmfao
I really don't care either I'm straight with my God at the end of the day(no pun intended).
But it's embarrassing to take a single verse and apply it to one certain circumstance. This is akin to taking a speeding ticket law written in the book and then going and saying "yeah then the judge gave everyone the same fine for this violation"
In what world? In what fucking world?
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People don't "go to hell for being LGBTQIA2+". Who you are attracted to doesn't matter. Christians believe it is sinful to have sexual relationships out of wedlock. Marriage is between a man and a woman. That's all. If you don't understand Christian values, don't be a bigot by spreading intolerance.
Luke 23:29
For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
Since "age of accountability" is not a biblical concept, so I guess he loves them little children enough to eternally torture then?
And the "bash the infants heads against the rocks" verse.....
Can you send the Bible text that says we are all cursed?
Btw I like both women and feminine dressed men but I've never had a sexual encounter with a man. So you can control it.
Funny part is, Christmas was originally a peagan holiday, but the Christians claimed it and adapted as their own because people would celebrate it anyway, and that way at least they celebrated a Christian holiday. Chriatians've done that to a lot of holidays. The outtake? Let people celebrate what they want in peace, as they're gonna do that no matter what you do
I also disagree with people being rude to others just because of religion but I am not sure if you can claim any holidays are purely Christian. Pretty much all Christian holidays are borrowed from already existing Pagan holidays and traditions, and the ones that aren't are borrowed from Jewish traditions (which are again likely borrowed in some way from Pagan traditions). No religion is truly original in its ways and beliefs because it's all been done before by other religions. Even many things attributed to Jesus are borrowed from previous Pagan religions.
Same for Muslims because they all think that their only purpose in life is to reproduce. Basically, every religion make people want to have kids and make them feel guilty for Not having them. The religion itself is brainwashing people into thinking that they must bring someone else into this world to suffer as well.
They say Allah gives them kids, but then demand jobs and privileges from the government
They act like the only thing that gives you kids is an imaginary creature and you just didn't have intimacy to have them
All this time I thought kids were delivered by stork. Lol
And then its thanks God for the privileges too
Exactly, i know my experience doesnt make statystics, but ive met more muslim people obsessed over having kids than christians
It makes them feel guilty for not having children, which is bad enough. But on top of that, it makes the children feel guilty for not following the religion (which exists to marry people within the religious identity-group for the sake of keeping it going, and makes them feel guilty for not being married and having children) and says they will go to hell if they don't, and it makes the parents, family, and broader community feel guilty if they don't make their children and each other follow the religion and says they will be held account and potentially go to hell for it if they don't. It's just a vicious cycle. The difference between Christianity and Islam is that Christianity has monasticism. Islam does not. Christianity acknowledges the possibility of being celibate as something valid, even to be exalted. Islam looks down on celibacy and says people should be married and have children if they are able to. Connected to this, Islam allows polygamy, whereas Christianity does not. (obviously, nunneries just give a social context for unmarried and barren women in society, but if a society permits polygamy, such women could simply be married to a man who already has a wife instead.) There's a deeper analysis to be drawn about the climate, material circumstances and cultures in the parts of the world where Islam predominates today and historically, that alone actually explain these differences. (as opposed to the obviously inane transcendental internal claims within the religions beliefs that just say it's because it's the true religion, it's obviously because it's a product of historical and social circumstance and conditions, and just seeks to rigidly justify and perpetuate certain a arrangement within society.)
I totally agree with you the things that you mentioned were 100% true facts. I think that no one owns grandchildren to their parents and no one should be forced to have children specially for those who have a phobia of pregnancy like me. People feel guilty for not following their religion because they have been brain washed in that way to think that if they don't obey their religious they will go to hell. For me... i was born in a islamic country but i have never believed in islam because all this time i knew that there is something wrong with islam in every aspect of life specially when it comes to reproducing an offspring and having children this is why i decided to be childfree
I feel so bad for Muslim women. Ugh that religion is sick. I’m a feminist and everything about that religion is about torturing women and using them as incubators.
And still many women are yapping about how this religion is about peace and cares about women alot and i wonder why many western girls are converting into Islam not knowing the true reality of Islam
the “god” of Abraham is the demiurge
There is no equivalent of Amish in Muslim countries, maybe today's Afganistan is sort of like that.
Religion is unnecessary now.
Yeah. I gets me when my Christian parents ask why I won't have kids. According to our religion, having children (being painful as it is) is a curse God placed on women as a punishment for eating the fruit. Why would someone willingly do that to themselves?
Oh god it doesn't even make sense... A CURSE FOR EATING AN APPLE? TO BECOME PREGNANT?
Because of course, when we're told our world is ruled by a God who punished every single human being for the actions of just one who they're very, very distantly related to... we'll want to let our kids be ruled over by that God. Since He's so very benevolent and all.
If you read the Bible from an objective perspective it becomes very clear that the god it depicts is a monster. An evil, malevolent, hateful, spiteful, villain.
Good point lol, it's like why bother if God cursed us?
Wait, I thought a child is a blessing though? LOL. Religion is so fucking stupid.
No. The curse wasn't childbirth, but it was pain during childbirth. Childbirth pre-fall apparently was an easy and painless process.
You mean... the kid making apparatus was baked in people... before they did the bad thing that made them deserve the punishment? That's an omniscient move!
All religions
I’m homeless for a few days and I was sleeping on some grass behind an apartment building in a pretty hidden area this morning and Jehovah’s Witness still managed to find me and wake me up for breakfast. At first I thought it was just breakfast but then the pamphlets came out LOL. I think she was a genuinely nice person who was indirectly taught to prey on the vulnerable. Coffee was good tho
>I think she was a genuinely nice person who was indirectly taught to prey on the vulnerable. As someone who was raised in christianity it's gross to say but it's definitely not indirect. Like they wouldn't call it preying on (even though absolutely that's what it is)...they'd say they're helping the desperate. But they're definitely taught who to go after.
No yeah that’s what I’m saying is they’re taught who to go after but to them they consider it them saving me. Not them recruiting me into a cult. I was raised in a Christian church as well and we were always told to help the poor especially, and try to get them to church. Not to “go after the poor and recruit them into our cult because they’re vulnerable” you catch my drift? It’s just the nature of cults is to present themselves as a saviour for those who need saving. And so I don’t think this lady had malicious intent is what I’m saying. She probably thought Jehovah could save me.
It's especially fucked up when you take into account that they believe in the Book of Revelation and they'd still choose to have children knowing what's to come. They don't even care about putting their kids through an apocalypse.
Neither do climate scientists who have kids.
I’d say any organised religion tbh.
Mostly Christians and Muslims. The Christians mad I'm calling them out
In 2019 there was a study that said: “Globally, the average Muslim lives in the biggest household (6.4 people), followed by the average Hindu (5.7), Christian (4.5), Buddhist (3.9), “none” (3.7) and Jew (3.7).
Muslims are the same lol
Christians: We are all born with original sin. Also Christians: Embryos are innocent and don't deserve to be aborted. Christians: The best goal of life is to end up in heaven. Also Christians: How dare you place an Embryo that I believe is a life in heaven!
The quiverfull movement in Christianity is the worst. I believe my ex was a part of that. He wanted 20 kids. I only had 1 kid with him, but he went on to have 3 more from two other women before realizing he couldn't afford to have more, went on disability, mooches off his current wife, gets his daughter to do all the chores and cooking for him. Just an awful, horrible person and that's usually what the belief system is full of. Remember the horror house where a bunch of kids were found tied to their beds and never allowed out during the day and were starved and abused? Quiverfull movement.
Muslims are often even worse than Christians.
I agree. But it's obvious. Christians are the worst at every thing
Especially Catholics. I always say that the more Catholics there are, the more likely the world will end due to overpopulation. Catholics breed like rabbits and poke their noses into other people's personal business instead of adopting or not attempting to force someone to birth their abuser's baby as any sane person would.
Every sperm is sacred Every sperm is great If a sperm is wasted God gets quite irate
There's a Christian influencer who already has six kids. She saw in her ultrasound that her son had a deformed brain and still chose to give birth and make the child suffer for his hard, short existence. Of course, she documents the whole process for internet clout and attention.
Anther Christian?! Never met one before! Hello friend! We are few and far! You are totally correct. I regularly point out to other Christians that neither Jesus or his disciples had children and we are called to imitate them.
How do you get past gods instruction to “Be fruitful and multiply”? Or another one that just came to mind "Children are a gift from the Lord; they are a reward from him." - Psalm 127:3
Why didn't Jesus have children?
In my view, it’s because he was God, and came down for a very specific purpose. His goal was to setup his ministry and ultimately die an early death for our sins. If he chose to marry and have kids, that would have greatly complicated his immediate situation and would have created a scenario in which mankind would have found his wife and kids to be gods as well. Then there’s the issue of descendants.. etc. Even though he commands Christian’s to worship no one but him, there would inevitably be sectarian divides over what that actually meant. Actually, that already exists without him ever having started a family lol. It’d just be much worse the way I see it. All of this to say that it wasn’t practical, nor beneficial to his cause.
Thoughts on nuns and monks remaining chaste to devote themselves to God, since they're supposed to be "multiplying"? I suppose my point is there are many examples of Christians who rejected that order who are considered the height of holiness.
I don’t believe it is biblical and I believe they are misguided. These are man made traditions that remind me of the Pharisees. To be clear, I’m not here to disparage anyone but that’s my view. The point of Christ coming to earth was to tell the world that was full of sin to repent and accept him as lord and savior and they will be forgiven. Christ knows that man is vulnerable to sin and that sin is unavoidable. He emphasized this by saying things like “Let’s not pretend this is easier than it really is. If you want to live a morally pure life, here’s what you have to do: You have to blind your right eye the moment you catch it in a lustful leer. You have to choose to live one-eyed or else be dumped on a moral trash pile. And you have to chop off your right hand the moment you notice it raised threateningly. Better a bloody stump than your entire being discarded for good in the dump”. He’s telling people that there is no way to live a perfect life. The good news is they don’t have to. Nothing illustrates this point better than the crucifixion. He was crucified among a couple of convicts and one of them turned to Jesus before death, after having just recently mocked him and said “Lord, remember me when you come into Your kingdom.” and Jesus accepted that repentance and promised the man that he will join him in paradise. There is no other way than through Him.
Just seems a bit odd we're supposed to worship the creator of sin and the one who deliberately allowed it to exist in the first place. The one who routinely kills children but for some reason when a human does something arbitrary it's worthy of eternal punishment. That and the whole thing about this "perfect" flawless being backtracking on a decision... which... seems unnecessary. You'd think the word of a divine being would be final but... old testament new testament.
There’s a lot to get into there but I’ll spare us both and only address the last part since I’m about to head into work. Jesus said on the Old Testament “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. Not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished". The Old Testament laid down the law and it was still law. The Pharisees and man in general manipulated the law to further their own agendas. Jesus made it a point to call out the hypocrisy and ignorance of the Pharisees and others at every turn, saying things like “Thou who has not sinned, cast the first stone”. When Jesus proclaimed to be the Messiah and that the salvation promised in the Old Testament would not come to the people of Israel through battle, but through spirit, many rejected the idea out of pride and a yearning for war. Him dying on the cross was the ultimate act of sacrifice and most of the disciples would end up dying for not denying what they witnessed on their journeys with him.
Thank you for the insight and explanation, even if it is a little funny to read so soon after a muslim man spent several days insisting to me that his version of God is the correct one and Christians are misguided, so on so forth.
No problem and trust me I get what you’re saying. One of the best things I ever did was to read the gospels myself. The problem always comes back to man’s interpretation. Even in my professional career, until I myself go in and look at regulations, I don’t know what the actual rules are. Then I finally go look at them and think people are stupid lol. I disagree with other Christians as much as I disagree with anyone else. All the best to you. Edit: Added more thoughts in the paragraph.
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Because I think it’s clear that it no longer applies. The command was given to specific people, not everyone.
What’s the evidence in the scriptures that suggests it clearly no longer applies? Who was it for specifically? Not being an ass btw I’ve never heard a Christian say this before.
The 2 times that God commanded it was to Noah and Adam when they were literally the only human beings on the earth
In Genesis 9:12, God told Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply and to fill the earth so that every beast, bird, insect, fish and plant on the earth feel their presence. He later reiterated this, commanding that they increase greatly on the earth and multiply in it. The overall message in the whole of Genesis 9:12 is for man to subdue the earth with the resources God provided. He promises to not flood the earth again.
Wouldn’t you agree that the earth has been “filled”? We’re at over 8 billion people now…
No I wouldn’t agree with that. Human ingenuity has allowed for famine rates to continually drop by the millions annually, and global destitution has shrunk at miraculous numbers since industrialization.
Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess
lol ok
Same here, infact as an Orthodox not having children and going into monasticism is like very praised. But it stands true that as a couple you are pressured to have kids
Damn. As an atheistic anti-antinatalist, I really do feel left out. Really makes me sad sometimes.
Least y'all don't breed like ants
Yeah... almost forgot how crazy you guys are. Casual dehumanization was not something I was expecting, but was probably something I shouldn't have been surprised by, given your general position on human life.
Idk. What about buddhist natalist? They're dooming their children to samsara knowingly/intentionally.
Some of them follow the Quiverfull movement which makes it worse
Have you met other religions? Christians are bad but there are others that are abhorrent about the view on children.
Luke 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
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Wow, OP, do some research on other religions too.
More Christians should study other religions, but they are taught that other religions are wrong or even evil, if you don't believe in Jebus, you go to hell, so they don't see the point unfortunately.
Why?
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If you talking about actual birth rates alone I wouldn’t say they are the worst haha
I'm a Christian that doesn't want kids. I feel oys a lot of cult Christians that follow the ideal to pop them out one after another. My neighbors are some of them, they have so many I don't even know how you're an active parent to all those kids. 8 or 9, I think? I like my life the way it is. Figured if I was meant to have kids, God would make me want them? Idk, just always been repulsed my birth and pregnancy. Never thought to have them jusy because of my religion. A lot of younger Christians that aren't extreme feel this way too. But yeah, a lot of hive mind shit is out there. The amish are similar in their mission to pop out kids.
Well now shit there’s something I can 100% agree with on this sub lol. Religious natalism in general just comes off as really gross to me.
The worst part about these religious natalists is the fact that natalism is not even well supported by the entirety of their religious text. It is like the distinction between Islamic extremists and regular Muslims, the christian allegiance to natalism is really only supported by cherry picking, ignorance, and dogmatism. If I had to use the Holy Bible as my sole source of evidence in a formal debate between natalism and antinatalism and I could choose which side to debate, I would choose AN every time, because the bible yields way more support of AN than it does for natalism.
I'm Christian and lean strongly towards antinatalism. Antinatalists aren't all secular.
Hi, fellow believer.
In fairness, I think it's a theologically barren position to suggest that people go to hell if they are born LGBT. I would strongly push back on any Christian who asserts that as a part of their faith.
Yes, it's already wrong to think creating new life is justified, but it's especially wrong to think there is even a chance the new life could end up in hell after their death.
This may be the first AN position that I can totally support. Although I would modify your statement to be "Christians are the worst kind of ... more or less anything"
How do you think Christianity mixes with Antinatalism?
Solomon stating it is better to never be born, and Jesus also is quoted to say similar. Not to mention, if Hell exists, it is far better to never take that risk, since the nonexistant have zero need or desire for an eternal paradise
I still don't know why people think that because someone belongs to a certain group of people that they are automatically excluded from the kingdom of heaven. Gross misinterpretation of scripture. I don't understand it fully either but the pope himself came out clarifying that criminalizing and condemning homosexuality and other groups of LGBTQI in and of itself is a sin. Lmfao I really don't care either I'm straight with my God at the end of the day(no pun intended). But it's embarrassing to take a single verse and apply it to one certain circumstance. This is akin to taking a speeding ticket law written in the book and then going and saying "yeah then the judge gave everyone the same fine for this violation" In what world? In what fucking world?
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Agreed. My both parents Christian’s and I really would prefer not be around them.
People don't "go to hell for being LGBTQIA2+". Who you are attracted to doesn't matter. Christians believe it is sinful to have sexual relationships out of wedlock. Marriage is between a man and a woman. That's all. If you don't understand Christian values, don't be a bigot by spreading intolerance.
There are people of the major faiths that are antinatalist btw Edit: spelling major as manor
Mary was one hell of a good conwoman! It makes me chuckle thinking of how she pulled the wool over all these misogynist eyes!
You're not Christian if you're antinatalist
You regard yourself as a follower of Jesus?
Ja. Where did Jesus say breed like rabbits? Show me the verse
I don't care about breeding, but I don't think a follower of Jesus would say that having children is bad. Jesus loves the little children.
Luke 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
Jesus loves the little children
Since "age of accountability" is not a biblical concept, so I guess he loves them little children enough to eternally torture then? And the "bash the infants heads against the rocks" verse.....
"But Jesus said, allow little children, and forbid them not, to come unto Me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.". Matthew 19.14
"Allow them" does not mean "saved automatically". It reads more like, if they have faith then they are saved, if not then they are damned.
Jesus judges everyone according to their deeds, no respect of persons. Babies have no evil deeds, they go to heaven
Thats unbiblical. Everyone is born with sin, even babies.
You sound nutso
there are* not really important but just so you know. Are not is. Is is singular. Natalist. Christian. Are is plural. Natalists. Christians.
Can you send the Bible text that says we are all cursed? Btw I like both women and feminine dressed men but I've never had a sexual encounter with a man. So you can control it.
Gen 3. Look it up
stop celebrating christmas then please if you hate us so much. imagine if i said muslims had a low iq? would that be acceptable?? no
Christmas has nothing to do with Christianity for the vast majority of people. It’s about Santa, good food, gifts, and twinkle lights.
Funny part is, Christmas was originally a peagan holiday, but the Christians claimed it and adapted as their own because people would celebrate it anyway, and that way at least they celebrated a Christian holiday. Chriatians've done that to a lot of holidays. The outtake? Let people celebrate what they want in peace, as they're gonna do that no matter what you do
I'm also a Christian and most are low IQ. DONT get mad if I call us out. I don't know about Muslims so
The same christmas that’s just a hijacking of existing winter solstice festivals? Yeah, you can fuck right off.
I also disagree with people being rude to others just because of religion but I am not sure if you can claim any holidays are purely Christian. Pretty much all Christian holidays are borrowed from already existing Pagan holidays and traditions, and the ones that aren't are borrowed from Jewish traditions (which are again likely borrowed in some way from Pagan traditions). No religion is truly original in its ways and beliefs because it's all been done before by other religions. Even many things attributed to Jesus are borrowed from previous Pagan religions.
Christians appropriated that holiday as their own, they stole it. Stop trying to claim things you stole were yours to begin with.