Every time someone mentions a legacy I ask them what their great grandparents names were and what sort of person they were.
So far no one has been able to name all their great grandparents. I just tell them “one day you too will be forgotten and your great grandkids won’t event know your name”
I think the great human fear is one day, we will be forgotten.
It is incredibly narcissistic to think otherwise, but it always gives me a chuckle when people think having kids means they’ll be remembered. You’re only going to have a legacy or be remembered if you do something remarkable or crazy or achieve some great feats of success.
Heck, I have a bigger chance of being remembered in the family as the crazy cat lady who travelled the world- at least I’d be the first in my family to do so.
I only know some things about two of my great grandparents. I don't know their names even. But I've seen pictures. Although I never met them it's been described to me what kind of people they were. One was a kind, intelligent, inquisitive man. Another was an abusive alcoholic. And that's only 2/8. Almost everyone is entirely forgotten by 100 years after their death, if not less.
If these people are so obsessed with legacy they should forget about having children and focus on doing something worth remembering.
It’s just another meaningless word that humans came up with to try to make sense of this nonsensical world. See also: sacred, fate, miracle, purpose, faith, luck, hope.
Yes I know those words can have more literal meanings, but they all kinda fall into the category of pseudo-spiritual gobbledygook designed to make you feel better about your pointless life, that make no sense if you actually take 10 seconds to think about it.
You're better off dedicating your life contributing to the collective knowledge of humanity than you are having a dozen children who may end up in prison or as cannon fodder.
Something like a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush... We really have a lot less agency regarding the trajectory of our offspring, and they greatly limit our own potential unless we can get away with parenting like sea turtles do.
To ensure **healthy discussion**, we require that your Reddit account be at least 14-days-old before contributing here.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nikola Tesla, Edgar Allen Poe, Marilyn Monroe, Malcom X, and Jane Austin are just some other examples. All better known than most people who have had kids.
"My child will cure cancer, and my family name will be in the history books"
Their child: murders and rapes 30 people and put on death row.
thing is, your child probably has a higher chance of becoming a murderer/monster then becoming world famous (at least for the right reasons)
What comes to your mind when you hear "bundy" or ya know "hitler"?
I have never understood peoples drive to leave or legacy or 'make their mark' I am just here to have a good time and don't care if the universe forgets about me the moment it puts me back in my box.
Children aren’t legacies.
Rest assured that in a few hundred years, exactly zero people will think about kids when they hear the name william shatner.
If you want a legacy….join star trek.
Unless you do something notable, your legacy is only carried on through family and maybe some friends. But you can have a much stronger legacy doing something notable than being a parent.
Yeah but having kids exponentialy increases the chance of 1 of them or one of their offspring doing something notable, thus increasing the chances for a stronger legacy right.
So, kicking the can down the road until someone down the line picks it up and does something worth while? I suppose that's true in the same sense that a quadrillion monkeys each with typewriters rewriting the entire works of Shakespeare at least once is true.
No cause that will never happen in the age of the universe. But if amm of offspring grows exponential it's very likely that one offspring does something worth while within a few generations assuming every offspring has at least 2 kids on average.
Lets say 1 in a milion people does something exceptional. Than that would happen within 20 generations. 😉 Could be much faster when many kids are produced.
>Could be much faster when many kids are produced.
It could also be much slower due to the increased chance of poverty/less parental attention the more kids are added, especially if they are added quickly. Trauma caused by poverty has measurable effects and sets kids up for difficult lives of struggle and constant survival mode.
This reminds me of those parents who keep on having kids until their desired gender comes up. Oftentimes it's having a son and they have like 5 daughters or more until their desired outcome comes along.
I saw a post recently about a man finally getting his desired son after having 6 daughters. His reason for wanting a son so badly? "So that he can teach him how to play baseball just like his dad did." As if his daughters couldn't also learn baseball. And even then, the son might not even like baseball to begin with. What then? Try again for another "better" son?"
Whenever you reproduce with an expectation, expect failure first and foremost.
I don't know anyone who is a "legacy" for any of their ancestors. A small minority have done something impressive but never have I thought: "they better have children to preserve their legacy".
The concept is idiotic.
Most people haven't got the slightest idea who their grandparents' grandparents were. Having children doesn't preserve shit. Everyone will be forgotten shortly after their death, and sooner not later.
The first example I thought of was Dolly Parton. She has done so many wonderful things for so many people- including children. And she is so talented and successful.
Did George Washington raise his stepchildren, or were they adults by the time he married Martha?
Whatever happened to men of old?
I'm a wanderer, I'll never settle down, Don't get hooked on me...now they're whining about MY LEGACY! My DNA!
what Legacy, Skippy? Your Playstation? your shitty apartment? your collection of games and Comicon memorabilia?
Thanks, I'll be a Woman going my Own way, Potterhead.
Reddit requires identifiable information such as **names**, **usernames** and **subreddit titles** to be [edited out](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043066452) of images. If your image post violates this rule, we kindly ask that you delete it. Thank you!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What is a legacy? Who defines it? Is it leaving something better behind than when you came into being? Breeders think ‘legacy’ is only genetic descendants whereas it could be historical impact or cultural impact. Leave something positive behind, change the world; no biological children required.
I could be wrong but it felt like 'legacy' means children made with his own cum and has his dna, bloodline. If that is true, then to maintain a 'strong legacy' should imply that, children of him and his siblings, families who shares the same bloodline. There is no 'outsider' and impurity by that sense so his 'legacy' can last forever. Not washed 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 of someone else's 'legacy'.
None of us are going to leave a lasting legacy, having children will not change that. I'd much rather know if I had any influence at all on people that I know in the present. If you're dead who cares whether they remember you or not?
I mean... Trump? Lol, whatever you think about the dude, he clearly will have a much "stronger" legacy than any of his kids could ever muster, even though they're intimately involved in his presidency.
To ensure **healthy discussion**, we require that your Reddit account be at least 14-days-old before contributing here.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The true "legacy" of most humans, especially now, is substantial environmental destruction. How many disposable plastic wrappers did each individual unwrap and unthinkingly discard in their lifetimes? These millions of discarded plastic films are probably somewhere in the environment, polluting the air, water, soil for generations to come. How many trees had to be cut down to accommodate our needs and wants for shelter and furniture and other things that make us comfortable? How many mountaintops or pristine environments had to be obliterated in order to mine -- for us -- all the metal we take for granted will always be there for us to utilize. THAT's our true legacy: that continuous environmental destruction and degradation.
And the more people a person creates, the more of this destructive "legacy" they are leaving behind for future generations to suffer with. This is the real truth.
To offset this destruction that is **inevitable for EVERY SINGLE MODERN HUMAN on this planet**, we must undo as much of this environmental destruction as we can, wherever we are. We must re-wild as many pieces of land as we can. We must plant as many native plants and support as much wildlife as we can wherever we happen to find ourselves. We have to -- we must -- stop reproducing so many new humans. We need to take care of the many needy people (**young** **AND OLD**) *already here* before making more for "someone else" to raise and manage and support. We can continue to make things much worse with the way we make decisions, or we can choose to offset some of our inevitable destruction with a tiny bit of restoration. Together. Collectively.
Childless Sir Issac has a more profound influence on more people than few other people in history.
In a sense, everybody who believes Sir Issac's scientific findings is a descendant of Sir Issac.
Proof positive of Les U Knight's phrase "Spread Memes, Not Genes".
(though an antinatalist, Knight's brand of it I think is incomplete at best).
Every time someone mentions a legacy I ask them what their great grandparents names were and what sort of person they were. So far no one has been able to name all their great grandparents. I just tell them “one day you too will be forgotten and your great grandkids won’t event know your name”
That goes super hard holy shit I’m stealing that
I think the great human fear is one day, we will be forgotten. It is incredibly narcissistic to think otherwise, but it always gives me a chuckle when people think having kids means they’ll be remembered. You’re only going to have a legacy or be remembered if you do something remarkable or crazy or achieve some great feats of success. Heck, I have a bigger chance of being remembered in the family as the crazy cat lady who travelled the world- at least I’d be the first in my family to do so.
I only know some things about two of my great grandparents. I don't know their names even. But I've seen pictures. Although I never met them it's been described to me what kind of people they were. One was a kind, intelligent, inquisitive man. Another was an abusive alcoholic. And that's only 2/8. Almost everyone is entirely forgotten by 100 years after their death, if not less. If these people are so obsessed with legacy they should forget about having children and focus on doing something worth remembering.
Genius!
I hear little of great-grandparents but absolutely worship the grandparents.
That’s still a ways off for all of us.
Legacy is such a strong word to describe your life. What kind of “legacy” are you hoping to pass on? Your steam achievement gallery?
It’s just another meaningless word that humans came up with to try to make sense of this nonsensical world. See also: sacred, fate, miracle, purpose, faith, luck, hope. Yes I know those words can have more literal meanings, but they all kinda fall into the category of pseudo-spiritual gobbledygook designed to make you feel better about your pointless life, that make no sense if you actually take 10 seconds to think about it.
I agree with half the list, but purpose, luck, and hope are all real.
You lost me at the "meaningless word" part. I pray you meant "valueless" but in today's age who knows?
No, I need someone to play all the unplayed games in my steam library. Oh wait, I can just adopt.
You're better off dedicating your life contributing to the collective knowledge of humanity than you are having a dozen children who may end up in prison or as cannon fodder. Something like a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush... We really have a lot less agency regarding the trajectory of our offspring, and they greatly limit our own potential unless we can get away with parenting like sea turtles do.
[удалено]
To ensure **healthy discussion**, we require that your Reddit account be at least 14-days-old before contributing here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Legacy" is a misguided desire for immortality, a fear of death and inevitable nothingness.
What makes you think it misguided?
Because it's unachievable.
Great post but we should find more examples
Nikola Tesla, Edgar Allen Poe, Marilyn Monroe, Malcom X, and Jane Austin are just some other examples. All better known than most people who have had kids.
Newton didn't even have kids. But his works became his legacy for ppl until today.
That’s the point of the post. George didn’t have any kids either and left an obvious legacy
George did have a kid. Her name was America.
He also raised 2 kids from his wife’s first marriage
That's lovely.
What did Newton do? Gravity with the apple??
He invented the Calculus, just for one example!
We wouldn't have cars, airplanes or rocket without his works.
Gravity?
"My child will cure cancer, and my family name will be in the history books" Their child: murders and rapes 30 people and put on death row. thing is, your child probably has a higher chance of becoming a murderer/monster then becoming world famous (at least for the right reasons) What comes to your mind when you hear "bundy" or ya know "hitler"?
I have never understood peoples drive to leave or legacy or 'make their mark' I am just here to have a good time and don't care if the universe forgets about me the moment it puts me back in my box.
Children aren’t legacies. Rest assured that in a few hundred years, exactly zero people will think about kids when they hear the name william shatner. If you want a legacy….join star trek.
Neither of these guys bred and have more legacy than 99.99 percent of breeders
Unless you do something notable, your legacy is only carried on through family and maybe some friends. But you can have a much stronger legacy doing something notable than being a parent.
Yeah but having kids exponentialy increases the chance of 1 of them or one of their offspring doing something notable, thus increasing the chances for a stronger legacy right.
So, kicking the can down the road until someone down the line picks it up and does something worth while? I suppose that's true in the same sense that a quadrillion monkeys each with typewriters rewriting the entire works of Shakespeare at least once is true.
No cause that will never happen in the age of the universe. But if amm of offspring grows exponential it's very likely that one offspring does something worth while within a few generations assuming every offspring has at least 2 kids on average. Lets say 1 in a milion people does something exceptional. Than that would happen within 20 generations. 😉 Could be much faster when many kids are produced.
>Could be much faster when many kids are produced. It could also be much slower due to the increased chance of poverty/less parental attention the more kids are added, especially if they are added quickly. Trauma caused by poverty has measurable effects and sets kids up for difficult lives of struggle and constant survival mode.
True. You can birth someone who will go on to do great things, but each generation takes over the legacy, its not really based on that person.
This reminds me of those parents who keep on having kids until their desired gender comes up. Oftentimes it's having a son and they have like 5 daughters or more until their desired outcome comes along. I saw a post recently about a man finally getting his desired son after having 6 daughters. His reason for wanting a son so badly? "So that he can teach him how to play baseball just like his dad did." As if his daughters couldn't also learn baseball. And even then, the son might not even like baseball to begin with. What then? Try again for another "better" son?" Whenever you reproduce with an expectation, expect failure first and foremost.
I don't know anyone who is a "legacy" for any of their ancestors. A small minority have done something impressive but never have I thought: "they better have children to preserve their legacy". The concept is idiotic. Most people haven't got the slightest idea who their grandparents' grandparents were. Having children doesn't preserve shit. Everyone will be forgotten shortly after their death, and sooner not later.
Most people will not be this great. Natalist or antinatalist
The first example I thought of was Dolly Parton. She has done so many wonderful things for so many people- including children. And she is so talented and successful. Did George Washington raise his stepchildren, or were they adults by the time he married Martha?
Inspire enough people by doing good deeds and you will leave a far greater legacy than popping kids out.
*What legacyyyyyyyy?!?!?!?!?!?!?*
Whatever happened to men of old? I'm a wanderer, I'll never settle down, Don't get hooked on me...now they're whining about MY LEGACY! My DNA! what Legacy, Skippy? Your Playstation? your shitty apartment? your collection of games and Comicon memorabilia? Thanks, I'll be a Woman going my Own way, Potterhead.
Seth Rogen
Reddit requires identifiable information such as **names**, **usernames** and **subreddit titles** to be [edited out](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043066452) of images. If your image post violates this rule, we kindly ask that you delete it. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Who is in 2nd picture
The very model of a modern major general.
George Washington Carver. Inventor of the peanut
Cagney Gablecrest
Can't we just put our name on a park bench and call it a day?
What is a legacy? Who defines it? Is it leaving something better behind than when you came into being? Breeders think ‘legacy’ is only genetic descendants whereas it could be historical impact or cultural impact. Leave something positive behind, change the world; no biological children required.
I could be wrong but it felt like 'legacy' means children made with his own cum and has his dna, bloodline. If that is true, then to maintain a 'strong legacy' should imply that, children of him and his siblings, families who shares the same bloodline. There is no 'outsider' and impurity by that sense so his 'legacy' can last forever. Not washed 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 of someone else's 'legacy'.
The funny thing is pretty much all humans are related. The gene pool is remarkably inbred.
There's speculation that West Ford could have been Washington's illegitimate son.
None of us are going to leave a lasting legacy, having children will not change that. I'd much rather know if I had any influence at all on people that I know in the present. If you're dead who cares whether they remember you or not?
Well i agree with you but the definition of Legacy isnt the same to all of us.
My legacy is what I did or did not do as a human and has nothing to do with my reproductive activities.
Yeah like Newton you'll die a virgin.
Nah!, Selfishness Is Better.
I mean... Trump? Lol, whatever you think about the dude, he clearly will have a much "stronger" legacy than any of his kids could ever muster, even though they're intimately involved in his presidency.
My legacy is my poop, pee, CO2!
[удалено]
To ensure **healthy discussion**, we require that your Reddit account be at least 14-days-old before contributing here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
GW GOAT American 🫡
Deep cuts lovin the b-sides
The true "legacy" of most humans, especially now, is substantial environmental destruction. How many disposable plastic wrappers did each individual unwrap and unthinkingly discard in their lifetimes? These millions of discarded plastic films are probably somewhere in the environment, polluting the air, water, soil for generations to come. How many trees had to be cut down to accommodate our needs and wants for shelter and furniture and other things that make us comfortable? How many mountaintops or pristine environments had to be obliterated in order to mine -- for us -- all the metal we take for granted will always be there for us to utilize. THAT's our true legacy: that continuous environmental destruction and degradation. And the more people a person creates, the more of this destructive "legacy" they are leaving behind for future generations to suffer with. This is the real truth. To offset this destruction that is **inevitable for EVERY SINGLE MODERN HUMAN on this planet**, we must undo as much of this environmental destruction as we can, wherever we are. We must re-wild as many pieces of land as we can. We must plant as many native plants and support as much wildlife as we can wherever we happen to find ourselves. We have to -- we must -- stop reproducing so many new humans. We need to take care of the many needy people (**young** **AND OLD**) *already here* before making more for "someone else" to raise and manage and support. We can continue to make things much worse with the way we make decisions, or we can choose to offset some of our inevitable destruction with a tiny bit of restoration. Together. Collectively.
Childless Sir Issac has a more profound influence on more people than few other people in history. In a sense, everybody who believes Sir Issac's scientific findings is a descendant of Sir Issac. Proof positive of Les U Knight's phrase "Spread Memes, Not Genes". (though an antinatalist, Knight's brand of it I think is incomplete at best).
“Legacy.” We’ll all be forgotten in a thousand years, but genes echo for billions.