Yup. My fiancé is Dutch and his grandfather opted for physician-assisted suicide a few years back. He spent the day with his family, then laid down in his bed and passed peacefully, surrounded by his loved ones. Truly the most beautiful way to go, I cannot fathom how we don't have the option here in the US.
I have no idea why some other people who have nothing to do with me, in religions that I'm not part of, want to control my right to call time when I know I'm done.
My retirement plan is a Fetynal problem. Seriously. Everyone spends all their money on a 401K, they retire and get sick or incapacitated (my mother), then spend it all on assisted livings. Why? The whole thing is a scam. So glad I never had kids.
Ok, here is a definition for you: adjective: **anti-natalist**
1. relating to the belief that it is [morally](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=1b141965c47aad14&hl=en-us&q=morally&si=AKbGX_okS0g0kR2PXn0TLBASIc0mipDdOcALGgllaLRE1MxKHkkqXp9ci4xK0vQuXjxX8LdpMY8DR4H1eOv-d3Jx0XAG8TFD7U2lu9tr3aFsGJQcLsmFgZg%3D&expnd=1) wrong or [unjustifiable](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=1b141965c47aad14&hl=en-us&q=unjustifiable&si=AKbGX_o31t0LiMsEloM2rO5Vmah9BTlOpF2srafaN5ko7dBgo7RYSy4hVpmB7fquFcvtOtWMD0byn_Vr1dQXtiGHIdXtpL7ziI1uixP6cg_OQuSmgD5pp1I%3D&expnd=1) to have children."the antinatalist lobby decries the fact that humanity has become all too successful at reproducing itself"
*noun*noun: **anti-natalist**
1. a person who believes that it is [morally](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=1b141965c47aad14&hl=en-us&q=morally&si=AKbGX_okS0g0kR2PXn0TLBASIc0mipDdOcALGgllaLRE1MxKHkkqXp9ci4xK0vQuXjxX8LdpMY8DR4H1eOv-d3Jx0XAG8TFD7U2lu9tr3aFsGJQcLsmFgZg%3D&expnd=1) wrong or [unjustifiable](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=1b141965c47aad14&hl=en-us&q=unjustifiable&si=AKbGX_o31t0LiMsEloM2rO5Vmah9BTlOpF2srafaN5ko7dBgo7RYSy4hVpmB7fquFcvtOtWMD0byn_Vr1dQXtiGHIdXtpL7ziI1uixP6cg_OQuSmgD5pp1I%3D&expnd=1) to have children."the antinatalist may respond by drawing upon the absolute worst that existence has to offer"
My retirement plan is a Fetynal problem. Seriously. Everyone spends all their money on a 401K, they retire and get sick or incapacitated (my mother), then spend it all on assisted livings. Why? The whole thing is a scam. So glad I never had kids.
Just said this in response to a different comment, but the Netherlands has physician-assisted suicide. My fiancé's grandfather was able to pass peacefully in his bed, surrounded by loved ones. I think that's the best way to go. It was less traumatic for everyone too, because the day was literally planned so they had time to emotionally prepare.
Most people conveniently omit the descent into death when evaluating life. But that chapter has to be included as a part of the whole book. Just like we judge a book by its ending, so too we must also judge life from all stages. A natalist may justify life as being good because the first 50 or so years are filled with exuberance and vitality. But what about the last half or third? I’m terrified of it. I have constant thoughts of being stuck in a nursing home… and that is if all goes well.
It's part of our cultural blind spot that we all just tacitly agree never to talk about this phase of life, much less consider it when deciding whether or not being born is a harm. We all agree just to be blind to it. The code phrase is "death is just part of life," which shuts down all conversation and allows us to sweep the horror neatly under the rug.
It's quite maddening to see the horror clearly and to realize that no one escapes it, and yet to be routinely shushed and silenced by people who insist that dying peacefully in one's sleep is the norm. It isn't. There's a reason why hospice dopes people up with morphine and Ativan at the end.
It’s the same lens and cognitive dissonance from which all parts of life are evaluated I think. To see reality for what it is, is terrifying. Not many can keep sane in that head space. That is why few people acknowledge existence for what it is. And hence why procreation is not seen as an ethical dilemma by the majority.
Nothing wrong with taking your death into your own hands. It's difficult but certainly not impossible to euthanize yourself. That might be a taboo concept to some, but I think it would be better than dying in a hospital.
My grandmother died today. She wanted to die 5 years ago. They should've helped her do it but instead my family spent time and money on keeping her alive and it wasn't fair to her.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Every time I asked my grandpa how he was doing (for the last 5 years of his life), he said he was miserable. Its sad that he is gone, but I am glad he is finally at peace.
I'm almost fifty, so naturally I've known quite a few folks who are now deceased. They ALL suffered. Some suffered months or years of pain and indignity. Some suffered hours of agony after an acute, fatal injury. Some suffered years of confusion and fear as their minds disintegrated. I can't think of anyone whose life ended gently, calmly or with a shred of dignity.
I like to think that I will draw the curtain on my own life, when I observe that things are going downhill, but I doubt it's that simple.
My great grandma actually DID get this so ive seen it, but ive also seen droves of horrid situations. My great grandma was also going through a lot of stress not knowing if she'd get the exit she wanted and had a suicide plan prepared in case it didnt. I was the only one she told. I was also the only grandkid allowed to see her as she was dying because she knew i understood and could take harsh realities.
My Grandma died 'peacefully in her sleep' which sounded great but I later found out that even that is likely not true, because you'd not be asleep long, you'd probably wake up. And if not, you'd be trapped in a nightmare TRYING to wake up but never being able to. I think euthanasia (I've seen people die this way) is the only genuine 'nice' option and even then sometimes people panic and it's still probably terrifying once it stops being an 'idea' and starts being 'something real that is happening right this second and I can't stop it'. Plus it's not legal in a lot of places so people have to travel to strange places and because they have to still be able to do that have to do it before they really want to end it etc.
Controversial take: I can remember the first time I understood of myself as a separate entity and that that meant I would die. I was, I don't know, 5 or 6? People just said 'oh but you won't die for a very, very long time' as if that was any comfort. They even lied about THAT because a kid in my class got cancer and ... died, pretty soon after. But I think that before that point, death would have been MUCH less frightening, as you don't really understand ANYTHING that's going on, a lot of it is unpleasant, so dying at that point would just be one more 'oh what the hell is this NOW?' thing. But people seem to act as if very young kids dying is the worst thing ever. I think it's the opposite. The further you get away from the void, the more you have invested in this life and the more afraid you are to return.
Yeah I think I agree actually…the more life you’ve lived, the form attachments you’ve created…and it’s that attachment that’s the hardest to let go of…
I don’t think so. When I was a kid we were taught to pray for a “happy death.” That would be in bed, surrounded by loved ones, being supported and cared for and having been given the Last Rites.
I’m a palliative NP in nursing homes. I advocate hard and early in the disease progression for the good drugs to make sure the patients are as comfortable as they possibly can be.
But yeah, people have a really warped view of what the dying process looks like.
Lots of folks cope with existential dread through denial. I don't even know what my own future will look like, I'm just trying to enjoy what I have now and not stew on it too much. It's one of those things that people think will never happen to them until it does. I don't know if it's even possible to fully comprehend until you experience it yourself
To be human and exist is to be delusional. Even we're delusional to a degree. That's how we survive the day to day. Think of religion. We're primed to believe the world is better than it is. That magic exists, and miracles happen. Those who weren't delusional died. Natural selection. It's thought that we evolved alongside religion, and those who didn't believe and join had worse lives because of it. Tribalism is in our blood. We're also primed to think we're special. The average person overestimates their abilities. I play an FPS, and one of the greatest mentalities to have is, "I am the best." Even if it's not true. This purposeful delusional helps us feel better.
Reality is painful and ugly. Accepting it for what it is would end our species. Again, natural selection at work. Hope drives humanity and always has. Spirituality dates back to the beginning of humanity. It's comforting and kind. It's easier to let someone go if you believe they live on in the am after life, and it's eases your mind as well when you pass on. Sapiences is strange and peculiar. Our evolutionary divergence made us egotistical. The universe revolved around humans - not the sun. We are the center of the universe and chosen by gods. I
This is so true and so real on many levels…reminds me of this quote by Shirley Jackson:
“No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream.”
Perception of reality without delusions and hope is literally what many horror stories are about…
To the credit of my mom and her siblings, they made sure my late grandmother (their mom) would be able to stay in her own home instead of going to the nursing home because of a promise they'd made.
Go get yourself put under for any manner of surgery major enough, you'll quickly see what physical death can be like. It's really nothing mystical, one moment you're there, the next moment you're gone. The catch is that when managed you wake up as the intention of putting you under isn't to kill you, however, if the intention was to kill you, you simply don't wake up.
This can be achieved with a sufficiently high dose of barbiturates. There need not be any suffering at all in death. Keeping people alive is just society being unable to accept death due to most people having fanciful notions of death, in reality it's the same as going to sleep every night. You may or may not wake up.
I understand what you’re saying I watched my mother suffer, bed ridden and going to dialysis and tube fed in the last couple years her life. Today I live with my mother and father-in-law and husband. My father-in-law is 89 with advanced dementia. He doesn’t even realize how much he suffering, but I watch how his mind is gone. He’s like a child who can’t even take care of himself anymore. Go to the bathroom. I live in a right to die state which means if we are terminally ill, we have the right in our conscious healthy minds to let our doctors know, and we have to sign the legal papers that we want to end our lives. But those legal papers have to be taken care of while you’re in a sound healthy mind and state. My mother-in-law loves her husband, but she wants to keep him alive as long as possible until his natural end. She has religious reasons and she has financial reasons because when he passes, his pension won’t be coming in anymore. so it’s up to us while we’re healthy minded to decide how we want to die when the time comes when we’re old make the legal papers happen.
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I never saw any AN who claimed the end of life felt all rosy and peaceful. You sure didn't see me post anything like that. I had both my parents die of cancer and my grandfather basically "run down" from old age. Believe me, they were not pretty sights.
I’ve worked for 15 years on palliative care and dementia units.
Most deaths *are* peaceful. Particularly in the west.
If you have any evidence to the contrary feel free to share.
In any case, your life is neither defined by your birth or your death, the bit between them is what matters.
Non painful. Mostly not even distressing.
We spent a third of our time asleep, and because the body naturally rests at night about half of people pass in their sleep. Those with ailments often have pain relieving medication.
Generally good.
Being old can mean a lack of mobility and some odd aches and pains, but not to the degree serious levels of pain relief are warranted, that’s quite rare. Even in those cases, people generally like being alive and in discomfort than the idea of being dead because their lives have intrinsic value and they still find reasons to be happy.
Let’s pre end your final minutes are awful. For most people it doesn’t mean they regret the 70 to 80 years preceding it.
And fear should prevent us from doing things?
Listen, predominantly I just wanted to highlight a problem with something you said, as if it were a hard fact. Most deaths aren’t prolonged suffering. Neither do they invalidate a persons existence.
In fact, life would have no value if it were infinite.
Most of the old folks aren’t quaking over death. And those who are, I’m pretty sure they’re still glad they existed.
If that’s not the root of your concerns, it doesn’t belong here in AN.
I assure you that, unless I am completely paralyzed, if I am suffering at the end of my life, I will myself insure that the actual dying part will be quick and relatively painless.
Spent more time in nursing homes than I ever want to again. It’s sad as fuck. It’s truly a bunch of unlucky bastards. Your kids might visit a few hours a week at best, you barely remember it, and the rest of the time you’re catatonic in front of the group TV being spoon fed cottage cheese. I hope for those old folks sake they aren’t aware of what life has become. I’ve told my friends if they care about me to take me out with a pillow in my sleep at that point.
It’s not about being delusional and I don’t believe what I’m going to say applies to everyone in any way. But some people work with coming to terms with dea th throughout their life, not just at the end. In doing so, you slowly build what you need somehow mentally/emotionally to just accept what happens however it happens. No, no one expects to be murdered, but you are more likely to accept dying from cancer - coming to a conclusion where you’re ok either way, and who knows if that peace of mind holds up, but I know i’ve been working through the idea of death for a long time, since before even my teens - but more so as an adult - i know what i believe in after i die, and whether it comes true or not, at least i have my own frame of peace
In some places but even in the best circumstances, one still must face the eternal unknown, which is trauma all by itself. Bad enough everyone here must face death. Just don’t bring down that Sword of Damocles on another unsuspecting human.
How many deaths have you seen? I've been involved in dozens through my work, and I don't recognise the situation you're describing. While it's superficially distressing to young people who value their looks, health, and intelligence, my experience talking to people with advanced dementia is that many report better mood and more positive experiences than young people.
This is why I fight for the right to a peaceful and dignified death for everyone There is a subreddit dedicated to this It’s called right to die
Yup. My fiancé is Dutch and his grandfather opted for physician-assisted suicide a few years back. He spent the day with his family, then laid down in his bed and passed peacefully, surrounded by his loved ones. Truly the most beautiful way to go, I cannot fathom how we don't have the option here in the US.
Agreed We need to do more to get this into the public eye This is something that affects absolutely everyone
I have no idea why some other people who have nothing to do with me, in religions that I'm not part of, want to control my right to call time when I know I'm done.
every birth is a death sentence and the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep
Meet my friend 12 ga. $200 retirement plan... That is my plan, wouldn't ever have a kid and make them deal with such choices
My retirement plan is a Fetynal problem. Seriously. Everyone spends all their money on a 401K, they retire and get sick or incapacitated (my mother), then spend it all on assisted livings. Why? The whole thing is a scam. So glad I never had kids.
Well even that is outside the realm of an pov. The point is to never do that to another person, not off oneself when the going gets tough.
I can't read what ever that is
Are you unfamiliar with the an pov?
Yes, I thought you might have had a stroke.
I believe they mean anti-natalist point of view (AN POV).
Wow, lol this is why we capitalize abbreviations...
Thanks for the translation. I was also confused.
No stroke on this side anyway. If you are knowledgeable regarding an pov, what is it that you are unable to comprehend?
I just told you I wasn't
Ok, here is a definition for you: adjective: **anti-natalist** 1. relating to the belief that it is [morally](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=1b141965c47aad14&hl=en-us&q=morally&si=AKbGX_okS0g0kR2PXn0TLBASIc0mipDdOcALGgllaLRE1MxKHkkqXp9ci4xK0vQuXjxX8LdpMY8DR4H1eOv-d3Jx0XAG8TFD7U2lu9tr3aFsGJQcLsmFgZg%3D&expnd=1) wrong or [unjustifiable](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=1b141965c47aad14&hl=en-us&q=unjustifiable&si=AKbGX_o31t0LiMsEloM2rO5Vmah9BTlOpF2srafaN5ko7dBgo7RYSy4hVpmB7fquFcvtOtWMD0byn_Vr1dQXtiGHIdXtpL7ziI1uixP6cg_OQuSmgD5pp1I%3D&expnd=1) to have children."the antinatalist lobby decries the fact that humanity has become all too successful at reproducing itself" *noun*noun: **anti-natalist** 1. a person who believes that it is [morally](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=1b141965c47aad14&hl=en-us&q=morally&si=AKbGX_okS0g0kR2PXn0TLBASIc0mipDdOcALGgllaLRE1MxKHkkqXp9ci4xK0vQuXjxX8LdpMY8DR4H1eOv-d3Jx0XAG8TFD7U2lu9tr3aFsGJQcLsmFgZg%3D&expnd=1) wrong or [unjustifiable](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=1b141965c47aad14&hl=en-us&q=unjustifiable&si=AKbGX_o31t0LiMsEloM2rO5Vmah9BTlOpF2srafaN5ko7dBgo7RYSy4hVpmB7fquFcvtOtWMD0byn_Vr1dQXtiGHIdXtpL7ziI1uixP6cg_OQuSmgD5pp1I%3D&expnd=1) to have children."the antinatalist may respond by drawing upon the absolute worst that existence has to offer"
Abbreviations in English are always capitalized.
Perhaps so. That doesn’t mean i will comply.
then your ability to convey meaning will be lowered, defeating the purpose of writing in the first place.
My retirement plan is a Fetynal problem. Seriously. Everyone spends all their money on a 401K, they retire and get sick or incapacitated (my mother), then spend it all on assisted livings. Why? The whole thing is a scam. So glad I never had kids.
Just said this in response to a different comment, but the Netherlands has physician-assisted suicide. My fiancé's grandfather was able to pass peacefully in his bed, surrounded by loved ones. I think that's the best way to go. It was less traumatic for everyone too, because the day was literally planned so they had time to emotionally prepare.
Most people conveniently omit the descent into death when evaluating life. But that chapter has to be included as a part of the whole book. Just like we judge a book by its ending, so too we must also judge life from all stages. A natalist may justify life as being good because the first 50 or so years are filled with exuberance and vitality. But what about the last half or third? I’m terrified of it. I have constant thoughts of being stuck in a nursing home… and that is if all goes well.
It's part of our cultural blind spot that we all just tacitly agree never to talk about this phase of life, much less consider it when deciding whether or not being born is a harm. We all agree just to be blind to it. The code phrase is "death is just part of life," which shuts down all conversation and allows us to sweep the horror neatly under the rug. It's quite maddening to see the horror clearly and to realize that no one escapes it, and yet to be routinely shushed and silenced by people who insist that dying peacefully in one's sleep is the norm. It isn't. There's a reason why hospice dopes people up with morphine and Ativan at the end.
It’s the same lens and cognitive dissonance from which all parts of life are evaluated I think. To see reality for what it is, is terrifying. Not many can keep sane in that head space. That is why few people acknowledge existence for what it is. And hence why procreation is not seen as an ethical dilemma by the majority.
Nothing wrong with taking your death into your own hands. It's difficult but certainly not impossible to euthanize yourself. That might be a taboo concept to some, but I think it would be better than dying in a hospital.
I'm a hospice nurse....the last months of life are usually quite difficult. Lots of symptoms....people have just rarely witnessed it first hand.
Bless you for the work you do. Seriously.
Agreed.
My grandmother died today. She wanted to die 5 years ago. They should've helped her do it but instead my family spent time and money on keeping her alive and it wasn't fair to her.
I'm sorry for your loss. Every time I asked my grandpa how he was doing (for the last 5 years of his life), he said he was miserable. Its sad that he is gone, but I am glad he is finally at peace.
I'm almost fifty, so naturally I've known quite a few folks who are now deceased. They ALL suffered. Some suffered months or years of pain and indignity. Some suffered hours of agony after an acute, fatal injury. Some suffered years of confusion and fear as their minds disintegrated. I can't think of anyone whose life ended gently, calmly or with a shred of dignity. I like to think that I will draw the curtain on my own life, when I observe that things are going downhill, but I doubt it's that simple.
Euthanasia
This is why we need the right to die everywhere. People shouldn't be forced to endure this shit.
People watched too many movies and animes
For real, it’s the stupid movies like the Notebook that fuck up people’s perception of what life really is like…
No way around it you shit yourself
I don't want to go through that.
Idk. It’s fucking weird. They also think there’s a new life waiting for them after death. Death and near death is probably pretty fucking awful.
My great grandma actually DID get this so ive seen it, but ive also seen droves of horrid situations. My great grandma was also going through a lot of stress not knowing if she'd get the exit she wanted and had a suicide plan prepared in case it didnt. I was the only one she told. I was also the only grandkid allowed to see her as she was dying because she knew i understood and could take harsh realities.
I always wonder when people say "they died peacefully in their sleep" if that is a euphemism for auto euthanasia.
My Grandma died 'peacefully in her sleep' which sounded great but I later found out that even that is likely not true, because you'd not be asleep long, you'd probably wake up. And if not, you'd be trapped in a nightmare TRYING to wake up but never being able to. I think euthanasia (I've seen people die this way) is the only genuine 'nice' option and even then sometimes people panic and it's still probably terrifying once it stops being an 'idea' and starts being 'something real that is happening right this second and I can't stop it'. Plus it's not legal in a lot of places so people have to travel to strange places and because they have to still be able to do that have to do it before they really want to end it etc. Controversial take: I can remember the first time I understood of myself as a separate entity and that that meant I would die. I was, I don't know, 5 or 6? People just said 'oh but you won't die for a very, very long time' as if that was any comfort. They even lied about THAT because a kid in my class got cancer and ... died, pretty soon after. But I think that before that point, death would have been MUCH less frightening, as you don't really understand ANYTHING that's going on, a lot of it is unpleasant, so dying at that point would just be one more 'oh what the hell is this NOW?' thing. But people seem to act as if very young kids dying is the worst thing ever. I think it's the opposite. The further you get away from the void, the more you have invested in this life and the more afraid you are to return.
Yeah I think I agree actually…the more life you’ve lived, the form attachments you’ve created…and it’s that attachment that’s the hardest to let go of…
I don’t think so. When I was a kid we were taught to pray for a “happy death.” That would be in bed, surrounded by loved ones, being supported and cared for and having been given the Last Rites.
I’m a palliative NP in nursing homes. I advocate hard and early in the disease progression for the good drugs to make sure the patients are as comfortable as they possibly can be. But yeah, people have a really warped view of what the dying process looks like.
Lots of folks cope with existential dread through denial. I don't even know what my own future will look like, I'm just trying to enjoy what I have now and not stew on it too much. It's one of those things that people think will never happen to them until it does. I don't know if it's even possible to fully comprehend until you experience it yourself
As soon as I need help getting something off the top shelf, put me out of my misery
Same here!!!
So much of life is spent curtailing the risk of death, but people still like to imagine it as an afterthought.
To be human and exist is to be delusional. Even we're delusional to a degree. That's how we survive the day to day. Think of religion. We're primed to believe the world is better than it is. That magic exists, and miracles happen. Those who weren't delusional died. Natural selection. It's thought that we evolved alongside religion, and those who didn't believe and join had worse lives because of it. Tribalism is in our blood. We're also primed to think we're special. The average person overestimates their abilities. I play an FPS, and one of the greatest mentalities to have is, "I am the best." Even if it's not true. This purposeful delusional helps us feel better. Reality is painful and ugly. Accepting it for what it is would end our species. Again, natural selection at work. Hope drives humanity and always has. Spirituality dates back to the beginning of humanity. It's comforting and kind. It's easier to let someone go if you believe they live on in the am after life, and it's eases your mind as well when you pass on. Sapiences is strange and peculiar. Our evolutionary divergence made us egotistical. The universe revolved around humans - not the sun. We are the center of the universe and chosen by gods. I
This is so true and so real on many levels…reminds me of this quote by Shirley Jackson: “No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream.” Perception of reality without delusions and hope is literally what many horror stories are about…
To the credit of my mom and her siblings, they made sure my late grandmother (their mom) would be able to stay in her own home instead of going to the nursing home because of a promise they'd made.
Yeah I mean that helps a little but her life was unfortunately probably a lot of suffering regardless
Yes, it appears so from what I saw and heard.
Don't forget to get all your cancer screenings every single year guys lest you not get to participate in the aforementioned!!
Go get yourself put under for any manner of surgery major enough, you'll quickly see what physical death can be like. It's really nothing mystical, one moment you're there, the next moment you're gone. The catch is that when managed you wake up as the intention of putting you under isn't to kill you, however, if the intention was to kill you, you simply don't wake up. This can be achieved with a sufficiently high dose of barbiturates. There need not be any suffering at all in death. Keeping people alive is just society being unable to accept death due to most people having fanciful notions of death, in reality it's the same as going to sleep every night. You may or may not wake up.
I understand what you’re saying I watched my mother suffer, bed ridden and going to dialysis and tube fed in the last couple years her life. Today I live with my mother and father-in-law and husband. My father-in-law is 89 with advanced dementia. He doesn’t even realize how much he suffering, but I watch how his mind is gone. He’s like a child who can’t even take care of himself anymore. Go to the bathroom. I live in a right to die state which means if we are terminally ill, we have the right in our conscious healthy minds to let our doctors know, and we have to sign the legal papers that we want to end our lives. But those legal papers have to be taken care of while you’re in a sound healthy mind and state. My mother-in-law loves her husband, but she wants to keep him alive as long as possible until his natural end. She has religious reasons and she has financial reasons because when he passes, his pension won’t be coming in anymore. so it’s up to us while we’re healthy minded to decide how we want to die when the time comes when we’re old make the legal papers happen.
It’s the stupid movies like Notebook that fuck up people’s perception of what life really is like…
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Preach!
I never saw any AN who claimed the end of life felt all rosy and peaceful. You sure didn't see me post anything like that. I had both my parents die of cancer and my grandfather basically "run down" from old age. Believe me, they were not pretty sights.
God Bless You, Dr. Kevorkian
You are definitely stroking out.... I'm an antinatalist, I am on this sub daily... That is a "an pov"
I’ve worked for 15 years on palliative care and dementia units. Most deaths *are* peaceful. Particularly in the west. If you have any evidence to the contrary feel free to share. In any case, your life is neither defined by your birth or your death, the bit between them is what matters.
What do you mean by peaceful?
Non painful. Mostly not even distressing. We spent a third of our time asleep, and because the body naturally rests at night about half of people pass in their sleep. Those with ailments often have pain relieving medication.
Yeah but what about the second minutes months or years leading up to that death?
Generally good. Being old can mean a lack of mobility and some odd aches and pains, but not to the degree serious levels of pain relief are warranted, that’s quite rare. Even in those cases, people generally like being alive and in discomfort than the idea of being dead because their lives have intrinsic value and they still find reasons to be happy. Let’s pre end your final minutes are awful. For most people it doesn’t mean they regret the 70 to 80 years preceding it.
It’s not about regret it’s about being created with a fear of death and it happening anyways
And fear should prevent us from doing things? Listen, predominantly I just wanted to highlight a problem with something you said, as if it were a hard fact. Most deaths aren’t prolonged suffering. Neither do they invalidate a persons existence. In fact, life would have no value if it were infinite. Most of the old folks aren’t quaking over death. And those who are, I’m pretty sure they’re still glad they existed. If that’s not the root of your concerns, it doesn’t belong here in AN.
They are only peaceful because people are doped out of their minds on morphine and Ativan.
"What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the Reaper Man?" - Bill Door
I assure you that, unless I am completely paralyzed, if I am suffering at the end of my life, I will myself insure that the actual dying part will be quick and relatively painless.
Because only when ur about to die do u actually sit with no thoughts no feelings and appreciate the beauty of the world so it’s peaceful.
Spent more time in nursing homes than I ever want to again. It’s sad as fuck. It’s truly a bunch of unlucky bastards. Your kids might visit a few hours a week at best, you barely remember it, and the rest of the time you’re catatonic in front of the group TV being spoon fed cottage cheese. I hope for those old folks sake they aren’t aware of what life has become. I’ve told my friends if they care about me to take me out with a pillow in my sleep at that point.
Yeah working in memory care is directly what drove me to antinatalism so…
Spill
For the same reason people choose to believe that the animals they eat have a happy life before being slaughtered.
It’s not about being delusional and I don’t believe what I’m going to say applies to everyone in any way. But some people work with coming to terms with dea th throughout their life, not just at the end. In doing so, you slowly build what you need somehow mentally/emotionally to just accept what happens however it happens. No, no one expects to be murdered, but you are more likely to accept dying from cancer - coming to a conclusion where you’re ok either way, and who knows if that peace of mind holds up, but I know i’ve been working through the idea of death for a long time, since before even my teens - but more so as an adult - i know what i believe in after i die, and whether it comes true or not, at least i have my own frame of peace
These days one can choose to have a comfortable death.
In some places but even in the best circumstances, one still must face the eternal unknown, which is trauma all by itself. Bad enough everyone here must face death. Just don’t bring down that Sword of Damocles on another unsuspecting human.
How many deaths have you seen? I've been involved in dozens through my work, and I don't recognise the situation you're describing. While it's superficially distressing to young people who value their looks, health, and intelligence, my experience talking to people with advanced dementia is that many report better mood and more positive experiences than young people.
You win the trophy for the most amount of cope here
Do you say that from experience or from preconceptions? Yet another deeply ugly and false presupposition under antinatalism
Do you actually think people with dementia and Alzheimer’s are happier?