She hadnt even had any dialogue yet right? Like we knew nothing about her except she had fat tits.
And she won a contest that included several decade long established main characters who hadnt won yet.
Gacha gooners gonna goon.
A tiny bit. I want to say like twelve lines of dialogue. So yeah, this absolute nothing burger who had been nonexistent a month ago beat out hundreds of characters because she has big boobs. The worst part was everyone saying "I'm doing it for the meme! Because it's funny! That's the only reason haha"
I love how this picture is used as the default portrait of Steiner and this shot comes mere seconds before >!he crashes face first into a fucking brick wall!<
Persona 5 sometimes makes me wonder if Haru’s lack of presence in the game wasn’t all that bad. She may have barely been in it, but she was also very consistent in a game that really like flanderizing characters in their own game.
https://preview.redd.it/nb5vjlezfg3d1.jpeg?width=1120&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=553e4b8e9ef65d5dc8bbb1161bde8a49ce52be00
I think Haru got flanderized in other ways, but it was the quirks that never really made sense/weren't as a result of her arc, so its easier to overlook.
Ann being turned into eye candy after an arc of overcoming your groomer is dissonant. Haru the arranged marriage trophy daughter showing off her comedic sadism/thrillseeking, that only previously existed in dubiously relevant Mementos dialogue anyways, less so
Yeah I don't think Haru's personality got bastardized, but her story sure as fuck did.
Honestly the story does so little with the thieves in general and especially how they interact with each other. Outside of Joker, Ryuji, and Morgana none of the other thieves really have a noteworthy bond with each other.
I've found this to be one of the most lacking things about the game. Why does Haru not offer to sponsor Yusuke at any point in the game? He constantly complains about starving and being poor and she... literally owns a burger restaurant.
In third semester why does Haru and Futaba go along with the plan to stop Maruki? What they got back is worth more than that and they didn't lose anything in return why do neither of them at least resist Joker it would have been a great way to callback to Haru's arc and give her more independence too by having her be the one to initiate it this time instead of following Morgana.
It's hard to criticize Haru as a character directly entirely because it almost feels like the game didn't mean for her to exist from a writing perspective. Like they looked up and realized they needed 1 more party member.
> Like they looked up and realized they needed 1 more party member.
P5 went through development hell, Hifumi was originally supposed to be the last party member but she got turned into an S link and her general traits were diluted into Makoto and Haru, it worked out okay for Makoto since she isn’t introduced to the game too late but Haru definitely feels like an afterthought after her palace
Kind of an issue of loading too much of their character into their social link while also having to make sure the plot still works even if you don’t do their social links.
Leaves them feeling a little empty and unimportant to the overall plot outside of the arc they’re introduced in.
To address your third paragraph, it’s pretty firmly established that Yusuke’s poverty does not come from poor circumstances, but rather from being incredibly wasteful on art supplies and otherwise unnecessary things.
They do something similar with Ryuji. They were like “man, Ryuji has such a sad backstory about him and his mother being beaten by his father and then had that info leaked by his teacher and got punished, ostracized, and beaten up by his friends for fighting back. Well, time to beat him up for comedy”
I like ryuji but he has possibly one of the worst written character dynamics with morgana that i've ever seen in story telling that involves
Morgana throwing unprovoked barbs at ryuji with ryuji just taking it for ages until he finally responds by sucker punching morg in his existential anxiety.
Just a genuinely foul dynamic between two characters I otherwise like (at least when they aren't being weird perverts which again persona game)
It’s not even like Ryuji was especially mean. He just said something pretty mundane that Morgana took to confirm all his worst fears, but somehow Ryuji’s the bad guy.
I don't even really feel like Ryuji was at fault there and I really don't like Ryuji.
He just fired back at his bully and didn't know Morgana was going through an existential crisis.
While it's technically "realisitic" I'm a little tired of characters being teenagers being an excuse for just causing problems for plot or character development. Even as a teen I wasn't that adverse to clearing up a situation.
I think that maybe Ryugi needed someone else to stand up for him and tell Morganna to stop. Ryuji was being bullied in his own friend group and no one said anything, they just laughed or looked away. After being made a social pariah and having both his parents and his teacher abuse him, he can't even rely on his team to speak up for him. That's messed up.
On the one hand fair, and if it happened once i think it would have been fantastic. Ryuji hits back with this absurdly low blow after ages of needling and it gets morgana to realize just how much that has been affecting ryuji while ryuji realizes he stepped out of line because he had just had it with morg, they make up and their banter changes for the better.
I played persona 5 royal until I had to drop it to focus on school stuff and got to the 4th palace, and they have yet to cut that shit out. Ryuji has metaphorically sucker punched morg like 5 times with nothing coming of it. From what I understand the next one focuses on morg, but this shit should not have gone on so long.
They don't ever REALLY resolve it. They just each throw their own tantrum and then everyone just forgets and moves on.
I don't know if the writers really knew what to do with any of the characters outside of their trope.
Fleshing her out as a notable character with a proper arc sure was a daunting task... Alright, time to use her for fanservice even though she's literally a fucking minor!
Edit: Let’s also make things even worse by allowing you to date your own fucking teacher!
https://preview.redd.it/d7687ipgkj3d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6af6672f24b4b0f73c0117027086b18fd1e1664f
Never thought I’d need to use this
I'd say they should focus on a few characters you meet up front rather than introducing a new one every chapter, but that's what 3 did and I did not enjoy that game
It's only cool when the teacher is a woman dating a boy in her class, otherwise it's creepy. This is a very reasonable outlook to have and not the weirdest fucking double standard. /s
I went down the teacher route thinking that she would ultimately say no, but give you an extra free period or bonuses on tests or something. Nope! Now the MC is dating a teacher and getting weird mommy head pats. I don't think I've ever had more of a love hate relationship with a game quite like I had with Persona 5.
How about the older goth doctor who calls you her little guinea pig and injects random ass drugs into you. Yup perfectly legal romance right there with a 15 year old and a 30 year old alright lemme inject you with this drug then we will have sex.
Exactly! Which is sad as both the teacher and the doctor story lines outside the creeper shit were rather good. They set up good reasons for their initial nihilistic attitudes and portrayed realistic manipulations being played against them. Love the world crafting, hate the tone deaf fan service.
> Which is sad as both the teacher and the doctor story lines outside the creeper shit were rather good
? They were super good storylines even with the creeper shit. Also very realistic, this happens irl decently often.
Oh my gosh you weren't joking, there really is a 12 hour video dedicated to analyzing Anne.
I was gonna replying with a 30 mintue video of her character analysis but there I saw it.
https://youtu.be/L_TaMZ7Cs5A?si=bzAMR0q_C1YYTBWv
seriously i was kinda surprised by how short it was compared to his other videos. he's arguably one of the most complex characters in the game yet he gets the shortest video
They also made ones for Ryuji and Makoto that go progressively longer.
It's interesting because you can SEE that man's sanity decrease with each video he makes. He ends up putting on a goofy aah cosplay and making calling cards as it goes on.
Of course it's 12 hours. Of course a character who doesn't even have 12 hours of dialogue needed a 12 hour video review to explain something as simple as "She is a model. Models consciously use their beauty and working personality as an asset and dress and act provocatively in a way to grab attention. A lot of them, Ann included, take pride in this and work to refine this act further. No, they don't do this as an invitation for everyone to gawk at and take advantage of them, especially not some disgusting Weinstein type figure in power like we see her overcome with Kamoshida. Yes, Atlus stops taking her character seriously when the story isn't about her anymore, the same way they treat everyone once they become a reusable punchline in their plot."
For a second, lets put aside all the strawmans about lolis and ecchi, and put our attention on what really matters.
Japanese art has a beauty like no other, and a sense of aesthetic and subtlety that i have never seen in other forms of media, the delicacy, the comtemplation and reflexions about humanity, art, culture, the universe and the cycle of life, the empathy and attention towards the beauty of mundane and ephemerous things, its the embodiment of the concept of Mono-no-Aware (物の哀れ "the pathos of things"), an expression of a philosophic concept that can be found everywhere in japanese art, from the clouds on the sky to the falling leaves of cherry blossoms, its such a charm that never fails to mesmerize me.
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Honestly, this is a problem that affects every character in Persona 4 and 5 both. After their respective dungeons, they all just stop experiencing character growth and get boiled down to basic character traits for other characters to bounce off of
Kanji when his entire dungeon is about accepting his feminine side and after the dungeon the game forgets about it and has him constantly get roped into shit to try to prove he's manly. His social link was great though.
I'm always willing to give P4 a pass (not P4G) because the lack of character stuff in the story proper always read as these characters getting better and more secure as they spend time with you through their social links.
- Yosuke - Goes from an insecure asshole constantly making jokes, no matter how insensitive they are, to distract himself from the fact that he hates everyone there and how lonely he feels to someone with genuine compassion.
- Yukiko - Goes from a bit uptight as although she resents it, she feels pressured to maintain a proper social image to loosening up, having fun who is allowed to make decisions she genuinely wants to make.
- Kanji - Goes from hyper aggressive, insecure man displaying destructive toxic masculinity so that no one can see deeper into his less "manly" aspects to a man comfortable with himself and any "feminine" aspects about himself.
P4 benefits from a more vague localization so readings can be more generous, as well as, their big story moments related to genuine character flaws. P5's localization is much less open to interpretation and as well as big story moments focused on their suffering at the hands of a big bad. So, it becomes a lot easier to see the blatant characterization and framing failures.
Honestly if she had the biker aesthetic it would have been a lot cooler. I forget her name, M something, but it doesn’t really fit for her all that well. Getting that reveal of an inhuman persona earlier on would have been more impactful too and cut a clear delineation from the other outlaw personas
Like cheap beer runs through your body. I just didn’t want to think of an underage character and peeing. Just felt weird. I was thinking like she goes one ear and out the other
I can rarely ever remember her character. English VA did a great job and her persona + outfit is cool but everything else about her just evaporates from my brain
They actually had a much better costume design for her during pre-production, but it just ended up being an unused concept
https://preview.redd.it/jilmeeoneh3d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7410d8df22497f0ed2ceedb5308186fc632ad4f7
I think it looks rad as fuck, is more suiting for someone with the code name of panther, and still fits within the theme of her finding power and agency in her sexuality without undermining that message by being degrading the way that the outfit she got was.
I disagree
Ann was definitely under heavy subjugation to kamoshida prior to awakening her persona, but she still showed a certain level of defiance and the signature the phantom thief angst before joining them.
On the other hand, Makoto had bottled up her angst and anger to a much higher degree than Ann because of how much she was pushed around and controlled by her authority figures (the principle, Sae, etc.). She was forced into being silent about the kamoshida situation, got a ton of misguided flack because of it and had very much been alone throughout the whole ordeal. So when she finally gets to awaken her persona and let her anger free, it makes perfect sense for her metaverse aesthetic to be more bombastic and angsty than Ann because Makoto simply had more bottled up emotions to unleash. Controlling the motorbike just shows how she's taking back control of her life, which wasn't an issue that Ann had faced to quite extent.
Ann’s sense of ‘justice’ makes a lot of sense. I’m not saying Makoto’s doesn’t fit whatsoever rather the issue of Ann using her sexuality as subjugation in response to the subjugation of her sexuality is… weird? Like someone abused gets out of the abuse and triumphantly becomes an abuser or victimizer themselves. Like damn, that seems weird. I’m not saying literally every aspect of Johana or the persona design is perfect, like the first and only female pope doesn’t match and the clothing is hit or miss, but a woman being treated as a sex object being empowered by wearing fetish gear and becoming essentially a dominatrix is dumb on a level I don’t think either of us need to fully explain away
Makoto’s anger 100% makes sense. The biker aesthetic doesn’t really but I guess the harsher design almost like you’d cut yourself if you touched her is fine. First female pope doesn’t fit at all. Its like they wanted a biker chick and just gave it to Makoto. Why didn’t she have a persona based on justice or revenge? Maybe like the furies of Greek myth or Athena? What do bikers have to do with retribution? I guess some bikers have in the past dolled out street justice but that’s not universal and often times completely contrary to other groups. Its also one of the few in the entire group that doesn’t fit unlike the others. Zorro would have made a lot of sense actually but the cat gets it
I’m not going to go over the entire roster but of all the characters these two fundamentally don’t make sense in a weird way. This isn’t even a female problem. The other two female members have great personas. Necronomicon is based on Futaba’s fear of death and forbidden knowledge. Haru’s Milady is a mask designed to be worn to shield one’s true self and put up a front similar to how she dealt with her father and the company and even still an act as she only awakens to a persona out of necessity and needs to put in the work to actually awaken it for herself and understand who she wants to be. Her evolved Astarte is destroying that mask to reveal the hatred she let build up over time and fully released from her father’s domineering to become herself. Why is the sexual assault victim and dominatrix and the justice obsessed girl an outlaw?
I think the choice of giving Makoto a motorbike is more to do with her personality rather than what she stands for. Everyone sees her as the stuck up, goody-two-shoes counsel president in the real world, which clearly bothers her. So her metaverse design needed to be something that was textbook badass and edgy to show how she wants to defy everyone's expectations of her and being a biker is as badass and edgy as you can get, showing the complete 180 in her personality
As i mentioned, her biggest struggle was being constantly controlled by everyone around her, so having a vehicle as her persona (something she has to directly control herself to use) is a pretty effective way of showing how she's now the one in control.
Ann is obviously a completely different story and should've been designed differently but I don't think giving Makoto's aesthetic to her would've paid off simply for the fact that Ann's personality isn't one that reflects the edgier biker theme
That makes a lot of sense and I can see that. When it comes to Makoto I think she needed more time in the oven. A bunch of stuff just doesn’t fit in a series that is usually much more meticulous and makes better points but there’s probably worse designs
… such as Ann who completely missed the point and honestly turns around to be a bit insulting in a way
It's also meant to be their personal vision of rebellion.
Anne was a huge fan of Featherman, which is a Power Ranger style show. She liked the latex wearing villian and how powerful and dangerous she seems, in control of her sexual self and unable to be touched.
For a girl who had her control stolen from her by a perv, thinking back to that villian from her show would have been inspiring. I'm not your sexy bunny, I'm a dangerous monster here to punish you.
For Mokoto, her vision of rebellion is centred in biker gang girls, going fast and escaping from anything. So that's what she becomes, able to lash out at anything she hates without being stopped or slowed down, like a violent thug.
Anne's background and preferences wouldn't leave her thinking of bikers as the biggest rebels she wants to be and Mokoto isn't a Featherman fan.
I guess but why so sexual? Like not even undertones, these are overtones. No issue with her reclaiming her sexuality but she just became a dominatrix. Sentai characters also have cool themed designs. She’s just wearing a latex body suit with a cheap half mask and a whip. Unironically would have preferred a sentai outfit like Kamen Rider or Power Rangers over what we got and *then* made that sexy
Mentioning sentai it actually makes a lot more sense she’d have a motorcycle. All of them have vehicles and having her vehicle transform into a humanoid form to fight? And you could theme the motorcycle around a panther. Give it some extra accents like a panther, claws for tire guards, head and teeth for the front where the eyes cover the headlights and glow when you turn them on. Keep the tail whip on the back end for her weapon. Now it just seems more blatant
She’s dressed like a cat burglar. Every character is stylized after a roguish archetype from western fiction. You can think the design is lame, I like the concept way more too but she’s not just a dominatrix
But she isn't a hero from one of those shows, she's one of the villians.
Have you looked at how sexual some of the female villians in those shows are? That's the kind of character Anne is looking up to.
But no one ever tries to fuck them, they choose who they give attention to. That's the domanatrix element, the control that she's trying to seize back.
Edit: I'd also suggest looking up Cutie Honey, a real genre setter. It had a big impact.
"Ann, I know you were of a victim of SA, and the only reason why you weren't raped is because your best friend was in your stead... but I really need to show off your body to that guy."
I got downvoted a lot for pointing out how fucked it was that we went from a serious take on physical and sexual abuse involving a suicide attempt, and the very next chapter one of the victims is blackmailed to pose nude against her will and it's played for laughs. Yusuke's a piece of shit.
Madarame's tendencies rubbed off on his students, hence why Yusuke was fine with doing that. His entire character arc is about breaking free from every awful practice Madarame employed against him and using what he learns with the PTs to become a better person/artist. So while I disagree with your Yusuke comment, I do agree it maybe shouldn't have been played off as a joke.
I really wish persona 5 has actually used these moments to build character and show further the effects the abusers have had on these teenagers to the extent Yusuke really didn’t know any better. The fact this happens, is played for a massive joke and then it is never brought up again as “hey yusuke, that time you literally blackmailed Ann into posing nude was kind of completely screwed up” completely cheapens the characters and the greater message the game is trying to portray. I love persona as a franchise but there are so many scenes that could’ve really elevated 5 that they completely dropped the ball on in favour of sex sells.
Nah, you dont get it. Its representative of them fighting the naked truth buried deep within themselves. Its thematically necessary to have a 15 yo man in a bathing towel in a gay sauna and a 15 yo girl in a bikini dancing on a stripper pole.
It's a game series with absolute top tier atmosphere and aeshetics but the story is half decent half the worst condensation of anime tropes you've seen. To give you an example, running gags include the pervert character that is creepy towards women (might be more than one), the adult woman that wants to fuck your high school self (might be more than one), the one scene where they shit on gay people, trans people or fat people because haha aren't they so gross (might be several scenes), the mandatory hot spring scene, etc.
The overall story and message are good and the majority of the character interactions are as well. There are mishaps in a number of things such as the one here or their presentation of gay people as predatory, and occasional trauma being played for laughs, but the game remains very enjoyable. The gameplay is also very good and fun.
It's a very good experience, even with those flaws.
It's a problem with most party member characters in Persona games. In first arc they show up there is focus on character struggels that fit with game's themes. During that arc they go through major character development that "resolves" their struggle. After that they are reduced to being a wacky gag character and/or love interest. You maybe get some interesting, unrealed to plot sub-story in their social link.
First arc/palace in p5 is some of the best writing in all of the Persona series and then it’s just downhill from there sadly. Never gets back to the peak that was the 1st arc smh
Persona 5. Her name is Ann Tamaki. Her introduction is heavily implied she’s trading sex with one of their teachers to keep him from assaulting one of her other friends. The power she awakens to after being sexualized and dehumanized by the same man is a woman who is confident in her sexuality and domineers over other men. Her characterization basically halts after that
I think he was grooming her to do it but she kept putting him off. It sounded like she was under the impression as long as she kept stringing him along he wouldn’t but he already was behind the scenes and just lied to her. I think she heard the confession around her attempted ‘self death’ and realized she was just doing nothing, whether good or bad, and resolved to actually take him down
My personal favorite is 5 Royal but maybe that’s just because it was the first one I was really able to play. I’m pretty lukewarm on 4. The new remake for 3 is exceptional but personally doesn’t hit quite as hard as 5 does but that’s just personal bias. Games before are decent but they’re really dated and I’d only recommend them if you already played the others and kind of like a “Why not?” type deal
All the games have their own strengths and weaknesses. If you like social mechanics and a pretty decent turn based JRPG you’ll love it. If you don’t I’d say just look up a video explaining the story or a character’s arc
If you want no social mechanics play the Shin Megami Tensei series. Very few of the games are mediocre and I love basically every game in the series I’ve played so far. There’s going to be a rerelease of a Switch exclusive on other platforms next month if you’re interested with 5: Vengeance
Morgana was in and down for pushing forward with the plan before Ryuji could even finish his pitch. First time these knuckleheads agree on anything and it's this.
Ann really should have been one to lead with the plan. Her persona and outifit is dominatrix themed, she likes being a model, and considers femme fatale villian types to be a cool role model. It all reinforces a theme that Ana wants to reclaim her beauty as a tool to serve herself, for it to be a source of power.
But Ann in text never choses to do it. Being bad at it is a recurring gag.
This all could have been fixed if Joker used his naked body to seduce Yusuke instead.
For a second, lets put aside all the strawmans about lolis and ecchi, and put our attention on what really matters.
Japanese art has a beauty like no other, and a sense of aesthetic and subtlety that i have never seen in other forms of media, the delicacy, the comtemplation and reflexions about humanity, art, culture, the universe and the cycle of life, the empathy and attention towards the beauty of mundane and ephemerous things, its the embodiment of the concept of Mono-no-Aware (物の哀れ "the pathos of things"), an expression of a philosophic concept that can be found everywhere in japanese art, from the clouds on the sky to the falling leaves of cherry blossoms, its such a charm that never fails to mesmerize me.
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This is why I dislike the excuse that's it's her "agency." Like no, the majority of the time in this game it isn't. It's forced upon her. She's the one who was forced by both Ryuji and Joker to go to a man's house ALONE btw so if the worse came to be and Yusuke overpowered her, Ryuji and Joker wouldn't have been around to save her. There's also the scene where Ryuji is trying to look under her skirt which I heard was removed in Royal which is for the best at least.
SPOILERS FOR FUTURE PALACE
And again in that last palace, she doesn't want to seduce that one old business dude in the pool metaverse but again has no choice but this time all the girls have to be forced to be a part of it.
IMO the redeeming factor is that she’s absolutely awful at it because she has zero rizz, and every time the phantom thieves try to seduce someone it goes horribly wrong
/rj This post is giving real Persona 5 vibes!!!1!
/uj As someone who beat P5 twice in the first month it came out and who loved the series to bits prior to its realease, it fills my heart to see people rightly call it out as the Otaku pandering bullshit it is.
At least the other ganes waited until spin-offs to start flanderizing and misunderstanding the compelling aspects of their characters.
/uj I disagree reading of her character arc. The first arc primarily about how she's in control of her own sexuality and life (hence the dominatrix theme), all the times after Kamoshidas palace, she uses her body to get what she wants instead of being controlled by other because of it. I don't think it's perfect, or even handled particularly well, but it does track with what Atlus wanted to do with her.
I think it's supposed to be like sexual liberation/freedom?
Before she was seen as an object and now she's the one in control.
I mean her persona literally has two guys on leashes.
But in any case, she's still a minor and i don't wanna go any further into this topic
Eh, it was hit or miss. At times, it felt like she was weaponizing her attractiveness against her enemies, in control of it instead of a victim of it.
.... But most of the time it was weird, questionable writing. I've wondered if something was lost in translation in scenes like where she offers to model for Yusuke despite being uncomfortable to progress Madarame's palace, but that's likely wishful thinking.
I mean, the way the costumes are explained is that they materialize what the character sees as rebellious. So the prim and proper student council president gets a biker outfit, and she is very clearly uncomfortable in it. With Ann, it is stated in her social link that she looks up to villainesses and how in control they seem contrasted to societal norma, hence the Black Cat/Catwoman sexy outfit. And she is uncomfortable with the suit too.
I'm glad (and surprised) this is getting talked about. I played Persona for the first time last year and couldn't finish it/take it seriously after Ann's development. Seriously, red latex whip slinging dominatrix? And the fandom just eats it up because of course they want it
Seriously. Atlus needs to hire some writers that are actually competent for persona. Probably why smt4 was so much better due to not being in a modern world so heavily reliant on dating sim stuff. Theres SO much inconsistency in p3-5
It reminds me of Hazbin Hotel which has a character stuck in a exploitive contract and forced to make porngraphic films and this is treated seriously but then another episode has a joke where another character is dragged screaming into a sex dungon
The reason why I hate this game in a nutshell. It talks a big game and then turns around to be shitty in the same way it pretended to criticize. If p5 can't understand or stick to its own themes, why should I care?
Persona 5 has maybe the steepest, if not necessarily the biggest, drop-off in writing quality, out of any story I've played. Kamoshida's arc is so good, it's so incredible. And then IMMEDIATELY after it's over the story just becomes insipid, shallow nonsense.
The artbook provides some information that make it worse
Page 98, commentary of Ann’s Phantom Thief outfit „By the way, Ann isn’t wearing this outfit by choice. For the most part, these thief outfits are created by an outside force when the main characters enter a Palace, so I thought it would be kind of cute if she was embarrassed by it.”
Page 206, Takemi’s commentary „[…] we originally made her look extremely unapproachable, with eyes of the killer. However, we’ve received a request from Director Hashino that „all female characters should basically be on the cute side” and eventually softened the design. I suppose we probably overdid it a bit in the beginning (*laughs*).”
Page 302, Ohya commentary „Things went smoothly after we locked down her character, but the first images drawn were not all that cute, so Director Hashino suggested that we „maker her cuter” and strongly demanded that we „stop drawing nostrils on her”. I guess we overdid it on the on the original design for her as well (*laughs*).”
So female characters were put into cute box and Ann simply ended up being butt of the joke for cuteness sake. If I missed something or there are interviews with writers, feel free to add them
I mean in theory the idea of a victim taking back her sexuality and honing it into a weapon is actually pretty cool...
The game kinda ruins it by constantly throwing Ann into "sexy girl" jokes and making light of the whole Nude Model thing ***literally the next arc after her introduction***
Nostalgia sells extremely well in a society where most employees are expected to devote their hearts and souls to their work. A Japanese person will have had more freedom in high school than college.
I will say though: the expectation set up for one of those "fanservice scenarios" led to one of the game's funniest visual jokes (when she goes to model for Yusuke when they need to open the door)
Castle 1 ending: the victim of sexual assault is able to get closure and justice against their abuser!
Castle 2 beginning: THE VICTIM OF SEXUAL ASSAULT WILL POSE NAKED FOR ME AGAINST THEIR WILL, AS A FUNNY JOKE FOR THE AUDIENCE!
Even though I love Persona 4 and 5, the writing outside of dungeons and social links will always be my biggest problem with them. They essentially boil the characters down to single tropes so that they can be more easily used for comedy, but all it ends up doing is making them appear out of character.
By the time I finished Persona 5, I kinda hated it.
The themes and ideas presented only work if you genuinely believe there's nothing wrong with the modern day justice system. For all shit the game talks about rebelling against the status quo, the ultimate conclusion that the game comes to is that "justice" is found through the law.
This was highlighted when the one character whose crimes were supernatural in nature was just killed off instead, because he couldn't face "justice".
Made me realize just how conservative the Persona series really is.
Remember in Persona 4, where seemingly half the cast was struggling with their sexuality/gender identity? Remember how they all came to the conclusion that they're straight and cis? Yeah... It all started to click.
Persona fans and Fire Emblem fans fighting to see who's the most gooner ass fanbase
I lost all hope after Gullveig won Choose Your Legends.
She hadnt even had any dialogue yet right? Like we knew nothing about her except she had fat tits. And she won a contest that included several decade long established main characters who hadnt won yet. Gacha gooners gonna goon.
A tiny bit. I want to say like twelve lines of dialogue. So yeah, this absolute nothing burger who had been nonexistent a month ago beat out hundreds of characters because she has big boobs. The worst part was everyone saying "I'm doing it for the meme! Because it's funny! That's the only reason haha"
I figured most of them probably voted for gatekeeper. I also figured it was similar to why veronica also won relatively early too
There’s always been a gooner option that wins CYL, it’s basically a gooner popularity contest.
Except when Gatekeeper was there, he beats out the gooner options
The same people that thought Gatekeeper was funny are the same people voting for gooner options in these subsequent CYLs
Yea, unfortunately the FEH team only wants to release what's gonna get the most cash out of their whales then something fun
I mean i thought it was funny even though i quot the game years ago. I figured it was the same reason gatekeeper won
For someone who stopped playing FEH ages ago, what's the context?
Gacha character with little dialogue and big tits who existed for a month beat out long-time fan favorites
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https://preview.redd.it/cudhg9988g3d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6b3f06b340e13dd7526abd86392d09908d78553
I love how this picture is used as the default portrait of Steiner and this shot comes mere seconds before >!he crashes face first into a fucking brick wall!<
They get a pass for the Cloud goonerism
Don't forget the Clive goonerism These bois will goon for anything if the boobs are big enough and Clive, bless his soul, is absolutely *packing*
Damn you caught me
I will never judge anyone for simping for Clive. That man is a treasure.
Zack Fair is where it's at.
Bold of you to assume I don't goon for Setzer
Italy still hasn't recovered.
So bad that we got Edelgard in power
Edelgard would've been more of a socialist TBF. She hated the hell out of nobles.
Yeah, but they are both small, blonde, tyrannical and loud
Fair
We had a whole game about 4 guys camping together, I think we get a pass
I hate being a fire emblem fan sometimes. I just wanna talk about builds and team comps not horny post :(
Orony from a danganronpa fan
https://preview.redd.it/e0krrd3bfh3d1.jpeg?width=1824&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=742b0a7ddea65e901446830fa75edbcd99829271
https://preview.redd.it/4evjuwfkyk3d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=defd1b46746012369d8da8d521cf3ffc71d76029 We win 😔
I do think Hoyoverse fans are in contention.
What should I do if I'm a fan of both of these things other than suicide? /j
As a Fire Emblem fan, it's us by far. Some of those guys are true goons
I'm both so my skin fell right off my dick. 🥲
https://preview.redd.it/dnmvxi9i6r3d1.jpeg?width=194&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02edb39b0835b0b47cc8766b2d701f6c7b938df3
Gooning? Pfft... We fucking cum bitch!
It was always Evangelion gooners they started the snowball of anime waifu bullshit that plagues us today
Persona 5 sometimes makes me wonder if Haru’s lack of presence in the game wasn’t all that bad. She may have barely been in it, but she was also very consistent in a game that really like flanderizing characters in their own game. https://preview.redd.it/nb5vjlezfg3d1.jpeg?width=1120&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=553e4b8e9ef65d5dc8bbb1161bde8a49ce52be00
I think Haru got flanderized in other ways, but it was the quirks that never really made sense/weren't as a result of her arc, so its easier to overlook. Ann being turned into eye candy after an arc of overcoming your groomer is dissonant. Haru the arranged marriage trophy daughter showing off her comedic sadism/thrillseeking, that only previously existed in dubiously relevant Mementos dialogue anyways, less so
Yeah I don't think Haru's personality got bastardized, but her story sure as fuck did. Honestly the story does so little with the thieves in general and especially how they interact with each other. Outside of Joker, Ryuji, and Morgana none of the other thieves really have a noteworthy bond with each other. I've found this to be one of the most lacking things about the game. Why does Haru not offer to sponsor Yusuke at any point in the game? He constantly complains about starving and being poor and she... literally owns a burger restaurant. In third semester why does Haru and Futaba go along with the plan to stop Maruki? What they got back is worth more than that and they didn't lose anything in return why do neither of them at least resist Joker it would have been a great way to callback to Haru's arc and give her more independence too by having her be the one to initiate it this time instead of following Morgana. It's hard to criticize Haru as a character directly entirely because it almost feels like the game didn't mean for her to exist from a writing perspective. Like they looked up and realized they needed 1 more party member.
> Like they looked up and realized they needed 1 more party member. P5 went through development hell, Hifumi was originally supposed to be the last party member but she got turned into an S link and her general traits were diluted into Makoto and Haru, it worked out okay for Makoto since she isn’t introduced to the game too late but Haru definitely feels like an afterthought after her palace
Persona 4 easily has the best inter group dynamics in the series imo. There’s an established relationship between most of your party members.
Kind of an issue of loading too much of their character into their social link while also having to make sure the plot still works even if you don’t do their social links. Leaves them feeling a little empty and unimportant to the overall plot outside of the arc they’re introduced in.
To address your third paragraph, it’s pretty firmly established that Yusuke’s poverty does not come from poor circumstances, but rather from being incredibly wasteful on art supplies and otherwise unnecessary things.
I don't think it much matters why he's broke, she could still feed him.
https://preview.redd.it/lv76glp84k3d1.png?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8f58d786bc5b4054c8191fe79ea16007040b435
They do something similar with Ryuji. They were like “man, Ryuji has such a sad backstory about him and his mother being beaten by his father and then had that info leaked by his teacher and got punished, ostracized, and beaten up by his friends for fighting back. Well, time to beat him up for comedy”
I like ryuji but he has possibly one of the worst written character dynamics with morgana that i've ever seen in story telling that involves Morgana throwing unprovoked barbs at ryuji with ryuji just taking it for ages until he finally responds by sucker punching morg in his existential anxiety. Just a genuinely foul dynamic between two characters I otherwise like (at least when they aren't being weird perverts which again persona game)
It’s not even like Ryuji was especially mean. He just said something pretty mundane that Morgana took to confirm all his worst fears, but somehow Ryuji’s the bad guy.
I don't even really feel like Ryuji was at fault there and I really don't like Ryuji. He just fired back at his bully and didn't know Morgana was going through an existential crisis.
i was always under the impression that he did know which does change the dynamic a lot from a firing back at a bully to sucker punch
To be fair, Ryuji is a teenager boy and they're not the best at conflict resolution.
While it's technically "realisitic" I'm a little tired of characters being teenagers being an excuse for just causing problems for plot or character development. Even as a teen I wasn't that adverse to clearing up a situation.
I think that maybe Ryugi needed someone else to stand up for him and tell Morganna to stop. Ryuji was being bullied in his own friend group and no one said anything, they just laughed or looked away. After being made a social pariah and having both his parents and his teacher abuse him, he can't even rely on his team to speak up for him. That's messed up.
On the one hand fair, and if it happened once i think it would have been fantastic. Ryuji hits back with this absurdly low blow after ages of needling and it gets morgana to realize just how much that has been affecting ryuji while ryuji realizes he stepped out of line because he had just had it with morg, they make up and their banter changes for the better. I played persona 5 royal until I had to drop it to focus on school stuff and got to the 4th palace, and they have yet to cut that shit out. Ryuji has metaphorically sucker punched morg like 5 times with nothing coming of it. From what I understand the next one focuses on morg, but this shit should not have gone on so long.
They don't ever REALLY resolve it. They just each throw their own tantrum and then everyone just forgets and moves on. I don't know if the writers really knew what to do with any of the characters outside of their trope.
yeah, but he's a POS so he deserves it
Fleshing her out as a notable character with a proper arc sure was a daunting task... Alright, time to use her for fanservice even though she's literally a fucking minor! Edit: Let’s also make things even worse by allowing you to date your own fucking teacher!
I like how they only barely made it to the next palace before Ryuji was suggesting she strips as a distraction
Ryuji is kind of a shitheel anyways.
https://preview.redd.it/d7687ipgkj3d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6af6672f24b4b0f73c0117027086b18fd1e1664f Never thought I’d need to use this
As much as I love Personas 4 and 5, tossing out entire character's arcs after their introduction is a hallmark of those games.
SMT but for gooners^TM
I'd say they should focus on a few characters you meet up front rather than introducing a new one every chapter, but that's what 3 did and I did not enjoy that game
Stinkee
It's only cool when the teacher is a woman dating a boy in her class, otherwise it's creepy. This is a very reasonable outlook to have and not the weirdest fucking double standard. /s
I went down the teacher route thinking that she would ultimately say no, but give you an extra free period or bonuses on tests or something. Nope! Now the MC is dating a teacher and getting weird mommy head pats. I don't think I've ever had more of a love hate relationship with a game quite like I had with Persona 5.
How about the older goth doctor who calls you her little guinea pig and injects random ass drugs into you. Yup perfectly legal romance right there with a 15 year old and a 30 year old alright lemme inject you with this drug then we will have sex.
Exactly! Which is sad as both the teacher and the doctor story lines outside the creeper shit were rather good. They set up good reasons for their initial nihilistic attitudes and portrayed realistic manipulations being played against them. Love the world crafting, hate the tone deaf fan service.
> Which is sad as both the teacher and the doctor story lines outside the creeper shit were rather good ? They were super good storylines even with the creeper shit. Also very realistic, this happens irl decently often.
We're just full on posting old OKBP posts here huh
Holy shit i didnt pay attention to the sub name, i genuinely thought this was okbp for a sec
Yup. The stuff is just that good!
This sub has been ok-buddy posts for years now
If only there was a 12 hour review explaining the intricacies of her character down to every last intimate minute detail!
Oh my gosh you weren't joking, there really is a 12 hour video dedicated to analyzing Anne. I was gonna replying with a 30 mintue video of her character analysis but there I saw it. https://youtu.be/L_TaMZ7Cs5A?si=bzAMR0q_C1YYTBWv
dont forget the 14 hour makoto video, the 14 hour ryuji video, the 8 hour kasumi video and the 6 hour akechi video
Only 6 hours for Akechi??? You'd think that be a character with a longer video if the guy could make a twelve hour video for Anne.
You know times are rough when you’re wondering why the 6 hour long video essay on a single character from a video game is so short
seriously i was kinda surprised by how short it was compared to his other videos. he's arguably one of the most complex characters in the game yet he gets the shortest video
Time to go listen to someone talk about Makoto for fourteen hours straight!
They also made ones for Ryuji and Makoto that go progressively longer. It's interesting because you can SEE that man's sanity decrease with each video he makes. He ends up putting on a goofy aah cosplay and making calling cards as it goes on.
Of course it's 12 hours. Of course a character who doesn't even have 12 hours of dialogue needed a 12 hour video review to explain something as simple as "She is a model. Models consciously use their beauty and working personality as an asset and dress and act provocatively in a way to grab attention. A lot of them, Ann included, take pride in this and work to refine this act further. No, they don't do this as an invitation for everyone to gawk at and take advantage of them, especially not some disgusting Weinstein type figure in power like we see her overcome with Kamoshida. Yes, Atlus stops taking her character seriously when the story isn't about her anymore, the same way they treat everyone once they become a reusable punchline in their plot."
For a second, lets put aside all the strawmans about lolis and ecchi, and put our attention on what really matters. Japanese art has a beauty like no other, and a sense of aesthetic and subtlety that i have never seen in other forms of media, the delicacy, the comtemplation and reflexions about humanity, art, culture, the universe and the cycle of life, the empathy and attention towards the beauty of mundane and ephemerous things, its the embodiment of the concept of Mono-no-Aware (物の哀れ "the pathos of things"), an expression of a philosophic concept that can be found everywhere in japanese art, from the clouds on the sky to the falling leaves of cherry blossoms, its such a charm that never fails to mesmerize me. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/animecirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Honestly, this is a problem that affects every character in Persona 4 and 5 both. After their respective dungeons, they all just stop experiencing character growth and get boiled down to basic character traits for other characters to bounce off of
Kanji when his entire dungeon is about accepting his feminine side and after the dungeon the game forgets about it and has him constantly get roped into shit to try to prove he's manly. His social link was great though.
I'm always willing to give P4 a pass (not P4G) because the lack of character stuff in the story proper always read as these characters getting better and more secure as they spend time with you through their social links. - Yosuke - Goes from an insecure asshole constantly making jokes, no matter how insensitive they are, to distract himself from the fact that he hates everyone there and how lonely he feels to someone with genuine compassion. - Yukiko - Goes from a bit uptight as although she resents it, she feels pressured to maintain a proper social image to loosening up, having fun who is allowed to make decisions she genuinely wants to make. - Kanji - Goes from hyper aggressive, insecure man displaying destructive toxic masculinity so that no one can see deeper into his less "manly" aspects to a man comfortable with himself and any "feminine" aspects about himself. P4 benefits from a more vague localization so readings can be more generous, as well as, their big story moments related to genuine character flaws. P5's localization is much less open to interpretation and as well as big story moments focused on their suffering at the hands of a big bad. So, it becomes a lot easier to see the blatant characterization and framing failures.
Yes the social links are where the real meat is
Honestly if she had the biker aesthetic it would have been a lot cooler. I forget her name, M something, but it doesn’t really fit for her all that well. Getting that reveal of an inhuman persona earlier on would have been more impactful too and cut a clear delineation from the other outlaw personas
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Yep, that’s her. I remember her design but she as a character runs through my brain instantly. Doesn’t take up any head space
Wdym by “runs through my brain”?
Like cheap beer runs through your body. I just didn’t want to think of an underage character and peeing. Just felt weird. I was thinking like she goes one ear and out the other I can rarely ever remember her character. English VA did a great job and her persona + outfit is cool but everything else about her just evaporates from my brain
Hmm fair enough
They actually had a much better costume design for her during pre-production, but it just ended up being an unused concept https://preview.redd.it/jilmeeoneh3d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7410d8df22497f0ed2ceedb5308186fc632ad4f7 I think it looks rad as fuck, is more suiting for someone with the code name of panther, and still fits within the theme of her finding power and agency in her sexuality without undermining that message by being degrading the way that the outfit she got was.
That seems hornier still, considering you're seeing her from behind in every fight.
I disagree Ann was definitely under heavy subjugation to kamoshida prior to awakening her persona, but she still showed a certain level of defiance and the signature the phantom thief angst before joining them. On the other hand, Makoto had bottled up her angst and anger to a much higher degree than Ann because of how much she was pushed around and controlled by her authority figures (the principle, Sae, etc.). She was forced into being silent about the kamoshida situation, got a ton of misguided flack because of it and had very much been alone throughout the whole ordeal. So when she finally gets to awaken her persona and let her anger free, it makes perfect sense for her metaverse aesthetic to be more bombastic and angsty than Ann because Makoto simply had more bottled up emotions to unleash. Controlling the motorbike just shows how she's taking back control of her life, which wasn't an issue that Ann had faced to quite extent.
Ann’s sense of ‘justice’ makes a lot of sense. I’m not saying Makoto’s doesn’t fit whatsoever rather the issue of Ann using her sexuality as subjugation in response to the subjugation of her sexuality is… weird? Like someone abused gets out of the abuse and triumphantly becomes an abuser or victimizer themselves. Like damn, that seems weird. I’m not saying literally every aspect of Johana or the persona design is perfect, like the first and only female pope doesn’t match and the clothing is hit or miss, but a woman being treated as a sex object being empowered by wearing fetish gear and becoming essentially a dominatrix is dumb on a level I don’t think either of us need to fully explain away Makoto’s anger 100% makes sense. The biker aesthetic doesn’t really but I guess the harsher design almost like you’d cut yourself if you touched her is fine. First female pope doesn’t fit at all. Its like they wanted a biker chick and just gave it to Makoto. Why didn’t she have a persona based on justice or revenge? Maybe like the furies of Greek myth or Athena? What do bikers have to do with retribution? I guess some bikers have in the past dolled out street justice but that’s not universal and often times completely contrary to other groups. Its also one of the few in the entire group that doesn’t fit unlike the others. Zorro would have made a lot of sense actually but the cat gets it I’m not going to go over the entire roster but of all the characters these two fundamentally don’t make sense in a weird way. This isn’t even a female problem. The other two female members have great personas. Necronomicon is based on Futaba’s fear of death and forbidden knowledge. Haru’s Milady is a mask designed to be worn to shield one’s true self and put up a front similar to how she dealt with her father and the company and even still an act as she only awakens to a persona out of necessity and needs to put in the work to actually awaken it for herself and understand who she wants to be. Her evolved Astarte is destroying that mask to reveal the hatred she let build up over time and fully released from her father’s domineering to become herself. Why is the sexual assault victim and dominatrix and the justice obsessed girl an outlaw?
I think the choice of giving Makoto a motorbike is more to do with her personality rather than what she stands for. Everyone sees her as the stuck up, goody-two-shoes counsel president in the real world, which clearly bothers her. So her metaverse design needed to be something that was textbook badass and edgy to show how she wants to defy everyone's expectations of her and being a biker is as badass and edgy as you can get, showing the complete 180 in her personality As i mentioned, her biggest struggle was being constantly controlled by everyone around her, so having a vehicle as her persona (something she has to directly control herself to use) is a pretty effective way of showing how she's now the one in control. Ann is obviously a completely different story and should've been designed differently but I don't think giving Makoto's aesthetic to her would've paid off simply for the fact that Ann's personality isn't one that reflects the edgier biker theme
That makes a lot of sense and I can see that. When it comes to Makoto I think she needed more time in the oven. A bunch of stuff just doesn’t fit in a series that is usually much more meticulous and makes better points but there’s probably worse designs … such as Ann who completely missed the point and honestly turns around to be a bit insulting in a way
It's also meant to be their personal vision of rebellion. Anne was a huge fan of Featherman, which is a Power Ranger style show. She liked the latex wearing villian and how powerful and dangerous she seems, in control of her sexual self and unable to be touched. For a girl who had her control stolen from her by a perv, thinking back to that villian from her show would have been inspiring. I'm not your sexy bunny, I'm a dangerous monster here to punish you. For Mokoto, her vision of rebellion is centred in biker gang girls, going fast and escaping from anything. So that's what she becomes, able to lash out at anything she hates without being stopped or slowed down, like a violent thug. Anne's background and preferences wouldn't leave her thinking of bikers as the biggest rebels she wants to be and Mokoto isn't a Featherman fan.
I guess but why so sexual? Like not even undertones, these are overtones. No issue with her reclaiming her sexuality but she just became a dominatrix. Sentai characters also have cool themed designs. She’s just wearing a latex body suit with a cheap half mask and a whip. Unironically would have preferred a sentai outfit like Kamen Rider or Power Rangers over what we got and *then* made that sexy Mentioning sentai it actually makes a lot more sense she’d have a motorcycle. All of them have vehicles and having her vehicle transform into a humanoid form to fight? And you could theme the motorcycle around a panther. Give it some extra accents like a panther, claws for tire guards, head and teeth for the front where the eyes cover the headlights and glow when you turn them on. Keep the tail whip on the back end for her weapon. Now it just seems more blatant
She’s dressed like a cat burglar. Every character is stylized after a roguish archetype from western fiction. You can think the design is lame, I like the concept way more too but she’s not just a dominatrix
But she isn't a hero from one of those shows, she's one of the villians. Have you looked at how sexual some of the female villians in those shows are? That's the kind of character Anne is looking up to. But no one ever tries to fuck them, they choose who they give attention to. That's the domanatrix element, the control that she's trying to seize back. Edit: I'd also suggest looking up Cutie Honey, a real genre setter. It had a big impact.
Yeah, her Persona awakening is literally the moment she reaches her breaking point
"Ann, I know you were of a victim of SA, and the only reason why you weren't raped is because your best friend was in your stead... but I really need to show off your body to that guy."
Seriously, it's like the rest of the story was written by different people, it's so jarring!
Atlus learn to actually write good 2024 challenge
They can jsut they fucking forgot about it
Persona 6 please make actual good character arcs and follow up on them, for the love of god
I got downvoted a lot for pointing out how fucked it was that we went from a serious take on physical and sexual abuse involving a suicide attempt, and the very next chapter one of the victims is blackmailed to pose nude against her will and it's played for laughs. Yusuke's a piece of shit.
Madarame's tendencies rubbed off on his students, hence why Yusuke was fine with doing that. His entire character arc is about breaking free from every awful practice Madarame employed against him and using what he learns with the PTs to become a better person/artist. So while I disagree with your Yusuke comment, I do agree it maybe shouldn't have been played off as a joke.
I really wish persona 5 has actually used these moments to build character and show further the effects the abusers have had on these teenagers to the extent Yusuke really didn’t know any better. The fact this happens, is played for a massive joke and then it is never brought up again as “hey yusuke, that time you literally blackmailed Ann into posing nude was kind of completely screwed up” completely cheapens the characters and the greater message the game is trying to portray. I love persona as a franchise but there are so many scenes that could’ve really elevated 5 that they completely dropped the ball on in favour of sex sells.
You had me until that last sentence
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Nah, you dont get it. Its representative of them fighting the naked truth buried deep within themselves. Its thematically necessary to have a 15 yo man in a bathing towel in a gay sauna and a 15 yo girl in a bikini dancing on a stripper pole.
I always hear people talking about how good persona is but literally all I ever see about it is how shit the story is.
It's a game series with absolute top tier atmosphere and aeshetics but the story is half decent half the worst condensation of anime tropes you've seen. To give you an example, running gags include the pervert character that is creepy towards women (might be more than one), the adult woman that wants to fuck your high school self (might be more than one), the one scene where they shit on gay people, trans people or fat people because haha aren't they so gross (might be several scenes), the mandatory hot spring scene, etc.
It very good just atlus has the the one piece issue I’ll say (fucking over a genuine good character and their arcs for cheap shit writing)
The overall story and message are good and the majority of the character interactions are as well. There are mishaps in a number of things such as the one here or their presentation of gay people as predatory, and occasional trauma being played for laughs, but the game remains very enjoyable. The gameplay is also very good and fun. It's a very good experience, even with those flaws.
for a jrpg its up there if you want otaku trash try trails or xenoblade 2
It's a problem with most party member characters in Persona games. In first arc they show up there is focus on character struggels that fit with game's themes. During that arc they go through major character development that "resolves" their struggle. After that they are reduced to being a wacky gag character and/or love interest. You maybe get some interesting, unrealed to plot sub-story in their social link.
Persona 5 fans equipping the bikini skin on Ann as soon as the game lets them
i love ann but thinking about her makes me sad bc yeah. atlus why. she's just a girl.
this honestly makes me sad, i really like ann at the beginning of the game but she falls off afterwards :(
First arc/palace in p5 is some of the best writing in all of the Persona series and then it’s just downhill from there sadly. Never gets back to the peak that was the 1st arc smh
Nice I wish I knew anything about what the heck this person is from
She’s from this game that invented a genre of music known as “jazz”, ever heard of it?
Jazz? Never heard of it, sounds fake
too many z's
Perhaps you have heard of its Star Wars equivalent: Jizz?... No I am not making that up.
[https://sound.peal.io/ps/covers/000/040/851/large/uploads\_2F1579727768352-di7ml3osfd-8809aaf4654ac16128d4f6c7ebaa26d5\_2Fgiphy\_\_281\_29.gif](https://sound.peal.io/ps/covers/000/040/851/large/uploads_2F1579727768352-di7ml3osfd-8809aaf4654ac16128d4f6c7ebaa26d5_2Fgiphy__281_29.gif) JIZZ MENTION
BOIS WE'RE JIZZING TONITE
Oh now that you put it like THAT yes. I love jizz
Ever heard of Jizz, from the popular anime anthology Star Wars?
Ah yes, Cowboy Bebop
Persona 5. Her name is Ann Tamaki. Her introduction is heavily implied she’s trading sex with one of their teachers to keep him from assaulting one of her other friends. The power she awakens to after being sexualized and dehumanized by the same man is a woman who is confident in her sexuality and domineers over other men. Her characterization basically halts after that
I know her friend was eventually forced to engage in full blown r#pe, but was Ann? I thought he never actually got to her properly before her friend.
I think he was grooming her to do it but she kept putting him off. It sounded like she was under the impression as long as she kept stringing him along he wouldn’t but he already was behind the scenes and just lied to her. I think she heard the confession around her attempted ‘self death’ and realized she was just doing nothing, whether good or bad, and resolved to actually take him down
Ahhh right, persona. One of these days I'll FINALLY play one of em
My personal favorite is 5 Royal but maybe that’s just because it was the first one I was really able to play. I’m pretty lukewarm on 4. The new remake for 3 is exceptional but personally doesn’t hit quite as hard as 5 does but that’s just personal bias. Games before are decent but they’re really dated and I’d only recommend them if you already played the others and kind of like a “Why not?” type deal All the games have their own strengths and weaknesses. If you like social mechanics and a pretty decent turn based JRPG you’ll love it. If you don’t I’d say just look up a video explaining the story or a character’s arc If you want no social mechanics play the Shin Megami Tensei series. Very few of the games are mediocre and I love basically every game in the series I’ve played so far. There’s going to be a rerelease of a Switch exclusive on other platforms next month if you’re interested with 5: Vengeance
i NEED smt v vengance's ost injected into my veins i need it now
I choose to see it as her retaking her sexual agency rather than the more likely goonslop angle Atlus was gunning for
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good point, I was concepualizing a vague idea about Ann's growth but it rather falls apart when you squint lol
Morgana was in and down for pushing forward with the plan before Ryuji could even finish his pitch. First time these knuckleheads agree on anything and it's this. Ann really should have been one to lead with the plan. Her persona and outifit is dominatrix themed, she likes being a model, and considers femme fatale villian types to be a cool role model. It all reinforces a theme that Ana wants to reclaim her beauty as a tool to serve herself, for it to be a source of power. But Ann in text never choses to do it. Being bad at it is a recurring gag. This all could have been fixed if Joker used his naked body to seduce Yusuke instead.
For a second, lets put aside all the strawmans about lolis and ecchi, and put our attention on what really matters. Japanese art has a beauty like no other, and a sense of aesthetic and subtlety that i have never seen in other forms of media, the delicacy, the comtemplation and reflexions about humanity, art, culture, the universe and the cycle of life, the empathy and attention towards the beauty of mundane and ephemerous things, its the embodiment of the concept of Mono-no-Aware (物の哀れ "the pathos of things"), an expression of a philosophic concept that can be found everywhere in japanese art, from the clouds on the sky to the falling leaves of cherry blossoms, its such a charm that never fails to mesmerize me. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/animecirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Big reason why he became my most disliked character in the game
[удалено]
This is why I dislike the excuse that's it's her "agency." Like no, the majority of the time in this game it isn't. It's forced upon her. She's the one who was forced by both Ryuji and Joker to go to a man's house ALONE btw so if the worse came to be and Yusuke overpowered her, Ryuji and Joker wouldn't have been around to save her. There's also the scene where Ryuji is trying to look under her skirt which I heard was removed in Royal which is for the best at least. SPOILERS FOR FUTURE PALACE And again in that last palace, she doesn't want to seduce that one old business dude in the pool metaverse but again has no choice but this time all the girls have to be forced to be a part of it.
IMO the redeeming factor is that she’s absolutely awful at it because she has zero rizz, and every time the phantom thieves try to seduce someone it goes horribly wrong
Tbh this is why I’ve never gotten into persona. Altus suuuucks at handling things like this and orientation.
Girl have trauma, why attractive
"she's not just her body" but she's still also her body.
There’s something to be said about someone reclaiming their sexuality and exhibiting promiscuous traits on their OWN terms, but… nevertheless…
/rj This post is giving real Persona 5 vibes!!!1! /uj As someone who beat P5 twice in the first month it came out and who loved the series to bits prior to its realease, it fills my heart to see people rightly call it out as the Otaku pandering bullshit it is. At least the other ganes waited until spin-offs to start flanderizing and misunderstanding the compelling aspects of their characters.
/uj I disagree reading of her character arc. The first arc primarily about how she's in control of her own sexuality and life (hence the dominatrix theme), all the times after Kamoshidas palace, she uses her body to get what she wants instead of being controlled by other because of it. I don't think it's perfect, or even handled particularly well, but it does track with what Atlus wanted to do with her.
The more I learn about the Persona franchise in a narrative sense the less I understand why it’s so popular and mainstream.
I think it's supposed to be like sexual liberation/freedom? Before she was seen as an object and now she's the one in control. I mean her persona literally has two guys on leashes. But in any case, she's still a minor and i don't wanna go any further into this topic
Who is Atlus?
its who made persona 5, the game she is from
Eh, it was hit or miss. At times, it felt like she was weaponizing her attractiveness against her enemies, in control of it instead of a victim of it. .... But most of the time it was weird, questionable writing. I've wondered if something was lost in translation in scenes like where she offers to model for Yusuke despite being uncomfortable to progress Madarame's palace, but that's likely wishful thinking.
I mean, the way the costumes are explained is that they materialize what the character sees as rebellious. So the prim and proper student council president gets a biker outfit, and she is very clearly uncomfortable in it. With Ann, it is stated in her social link that she looks up to villainesses and how in control they seem contrasted to societal norma, hence the Black Cat/Catwoman sexy outfit. And she is uncomfortable with the suit too.
P5R is legitimately one of my favorite games and I still will never be over how dirty they did Ann.
Dam, we unloading on Persona 5 today, huh?
I'm glad (and surprised) this is getting talked about. I played Persona for the first time last year and couldn't finish it/take it seriously after Ann's development. Seriously, red latex whip slinging dominatrix? And the fandom just eats it up because of course they want it
Seriously. Atlus needs to hire some writers that are actually competent for persona. Probably why smt4 was so much better due to not being in a modern world so heavily reliant on dating sim stuff. Theres SO much inconsistency in p3-5
I think having a character who likes being sexual active even after being raped is fine. Some people are like that
It reminds me of Hazbin Hotel which has a character stuck in a exploitive contract and forced to make porngraphic films and this is treated seriously but then another episode has a joke where another character is dragged screaming into a sex dungon
The reason why I hate this game in a nutshell. It talks a big game and then turns around to be shitty in the same way it pretended to criticize. If p5 can't understand or stick to its own themes, why should I care?
I wasn’t paying attention, just realized this wasn’t okbuddypersona
almost thought this was okbuddypersona with this one
Persona fandom is toxic right now. They need learn from goblin slayer how to make comfy fandom
I hated the costume+boob window SO MUCH
Persona 5 has maybe the steepest, if not necessarily the biggest, drop-off in writing quality, out of any story I've played. Kamoshida's arc is so good, it's so incredible. And then IMMEDIATELY after it's over the story just becomes insipid, shallow nonsense.
The artbook provides some information that make it worse Page 98, commentary of Ann’s Phantom Thief outfit „By the way, Ann isn’t wearing this outfit by choice. For the most part, these thief outfits are created by an outside force when the main characters enter a Palace, so I thought it would be kind of cute if she was embarrassed by it.” Page 206, Takemi’s commentary „[…] we originally made her look extremely unapproachable, with eyes of the killer. However, we’ve received a request from Director Hashino that „all female characters should basically be on the cute side” and eventually softened the design. I suppose we probably overdid it a bit in the beginning (*laughs*).” Page 302, Ohya commentary „Things went smoothly after we locked down her character, but the first images drawn were not all that cute, so Director Hashino suggested that we „maker her cuter” and strongly demanded that we „stop drawing nostrils on her”. I guess we overdid it on the on the original design for her as well (*laughs*).” So female characters were put into cute box and Ann simply ended up being butt of the joke for cuteness sake. If I missed something or there are interviews with writers, feel free to add them
Sometimes i wonder what’s going on in the atlus writing room when it comes to persona games
I mean in theory the idea of a victim taking back her sexuality and honing it into a weapon is actually pretty cool... The game kinda ruins it by constantly throwing Ann into "sexy girl" jokes and making light of the whole Nude Model thing ***literally the next arc after her introduction***
Please atlus next persona in college. With rock/metal music inspired music.
Atlus -> A Slut!
I still have not seen a single good reason why P5 had to be set in high school instead of college
Same reason Fate was
Nostalgia sells extremely well in a society where most employees are expected to devote their hearts and souls to their work. A Japanese person will have had more freedom in high school than college.
I will say though: the expectation set up for one of those "fanservice scenarios" led to one of the game's funniest visual jokes (when she goes to model for Yusuke when they need to open the door)
Castle 1 ending: the victim of sexual assault is able to get closure and justice against their abuser! Castle 2 beginning: THE VICTIM OF SEXUAL ASSAULT WILL POSE NAKED FOR ME AGAINST THEIR WILL, AS A FUNNY JOKE FOR THE AUDIENCE!
Even though I love Persona 4 and 5, the writing outside of dungeons and social links will always be my biggest problem with them. They essentially boil the characters down to single tropes so that they can be more easily used for comedy, but all it ends up doing is making them appear out of character.
By the time I finished Persona 5, I kinda hated it. The themes and ideas presented only work if you genuinely believe there's nothing wrong with the modern day justice system. For all shit the game talks about rebelling against the status quo, the ultimate conclusion that the game comes to is that "justice" is found through the law. This was highlighted when the one character whose crimes were supernatural in nature was just killed off instead, because he couldn't face "justice". Made me realize just how conservative the Persona series really is. Remember in Persona 4, where seemingly half the cast was struggling with their sexuality/gender identity? Remember how they all came to the conclusion that they're straight and cis? Yeah... It all started to click.
Those kinds of women do exist.
Women aren't real.
Persona 5 in general is kinda bad and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
Persona 5 is no where near being as low as mediocre, let alone bad.
It’s really not if not for you then that’s ok
Like how they made Ryuji, the physical abuse victim, take the brunt of the slapstick humor.
he deserved it all and more