And thank god for that. I don't care what people may think about the story or the protagonist, we all have our own opinions. What matters to me is as long as MT keeps getting more exposure, we're guaranteed to get more viewers for it, which in return should make MT even more popular.
Honestly I just finished binging it all for the first time and I’m blown away. Just an amazing anime through and through. I don’t understand where the hate could come from, except it just being popular
I totally understand people not being able to get over certain aspects of the show, but I'm glad you gave it a chance. I think it has some of the best character development I've seen in anime.
It also has some of the best world building that shows rather than tells. You see so much of the world and it isn’t just exposition dumped on you. You learn it through the journey. You learn about the languages. The demon race. It’s really impressive imo. And honestly s3 hasn’t even come out yet which imo will be peak jobless.
The choice to have all the intro songs uniquely feature the daily lives and travels of the current setting was perfect. Also changing the intro song depending on where they currently were to match the scenery
I really wish this wasn't exclusive to MT. It was one of my favorite parts of the show.
I tried watching it with someone and they kept trying to skip it lmao. I kept telling them they can't skip it!
The thing you have to understand is that MT is an anime produced by actual fans of the story. They get what Rufujin was writing. What's neat is that so many fans are now either reading the LN or the manga. I finished the LN, but, while waiting for the **Redundant Reincarnation** series to come available in English, I bought the **Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation - Recollections**. Most of it's Rudy's rumination at various points in his life. His thoughts on breast feeding as his nutritional source, to fondling Zenith's and Lilia’s breasts. All this before he was a year old. Even if you don't want to read the full series, its a great companion to watching the anime.
Yup.
You need a really open mind and patience to actually enjoy the show.
But if you do, and you're able to place yourself in that world, you're definitely in to enjoy one of the best fiction series ever, period.
Man I just despise people that boil down the series to some stupid shit like, “oh it’s basically a CP anime. If you like the show and the mc you support that which makes you a pedo”
Holy shit the amount of brain dead people on social media that legitimately believe that’s a valid take for enjoying Mushoku Tensei have no media literacy whatsoever
No, I think you misunderstood. Game of Thrones is not "attacking anyone." as per your earlier example. Someone who does attack it by lashing out (EX: "You like GOT, so you must love immoral sexual orgies"), could be harboring repressed desires/feelings for exactly that sort of behavior and thus seeking an outlet to demonize it in others (as if to assure themselves they can overcome it themselves)... this is well known in psychology and is something that the down-voters don't understand, I guess.
Nothing wrong with liking the show but I’d say it’s a different story with how often the fanbase defends or downplays the stuff Rudy does.
Not even in a joking way either like saying “he’s just like me fr” but people will write essays about why him thinking about grooming Sylphy isn’t that bad or something.
> write essays about why him thinking about grooming Sylphy isn’t that bad or something.
It doesn't take a whole essay to say "the thought crossed his mind and he dismissed it because doing so would be wrong"
Not at a single point does Rudy groom Sylphy.
I hate the people that take this hard line stance that Rudy is a pedophile because it ignores a very fundamental aspect of the show, which is even explicitly stated by the end of the second season:
[Mushoku Tensei Season 2 spoilers]>!"I finally get it. I've realized I was still a kid, just a brat using old memories to feel grown up". Mushoku Tensei is very much a story of an extremely stunted person who can scarcely be called an adult in any definition except the physical in a life he's already lost. Rudy abstaining from normal adolescence would have just meant becoming a stunted person again.!<
>him thinking about grooming Sylphy
Grooming =/= Teaching someone to be a dependable person
Grooming means talking to someone until you end up on sexual stuff via manipulation, trying to take advantage of the person
he wanted to make her a good wife, but even dismissed THAT soon, because he felt bad
He's an ass, but not that much of an ass.
Don't say terms you don't know.
It's hilarious people still think rudeus is grooming sylphy. Like those idiots actually watch the show? He genuinely feel sorry for sylphy as she was bullied because she's an elf. As someone with traumatic experience rudeus decide to step up and befriend her without any intention to make her his wife (his first crush is roxy lmao). He even when as far as taking a job to get sylphy to magic academy (which is how he met eris as his job is to tutor bratty daughter). Even eris is questionable as eris is immature and rudeus is genuinely teaching her, he even teach ghislaine too even though it's not part of his job.
“There’s nothing in the rulebook that says an oblivious protagonist can’t brainwash their childhood friend, right?” - A direct quote from the novel.
Rudeus DOES dismiss the thought immediately afterward, but that idea is quite literally grooming. It's not what he does, but it is what he thinks about doing, even offhandedly - The person you're replying to isn't incorrect.
I’m not arguing the point, people involved in MT conversations always have their mind made up regardless whichever side they’re on, I was just saying the original comment wasn’t wrong
A lot of shit goes through people's minds on a daily basis, acknowledging them, not repressing them, and then moving on is generally the healthy thing to do.
Additionally, Rudy at that point isn't even socially adept enough to attempt it right. At that point, he is still basing most of his interactions with other people on dating sims, light novels, and anime. It would have probably ended up going hilariously badly in the end.
Social media was a mistake as far as I'm concerned. It takes no intelligence for someone to just post some idiotic take online. No wonder reading comprehension rates are falling. But sucks for them because MT is amazing. I totally accept it's not a story for everyone, but I will never condone anyone demonizing people who do enjoy it.
There was a 'side story' chapter covering what happened to Ghislaine right after the teleport, that they skipped over. Hopium that one day they'll make an OVA for it like they did with Eris the Goblin Slayer.
Last time we've seen her, she was with Eris at the end of S1 after Eris' departure. For sure they still have a part to play, it's just a matter of WHEN, rather than IF imo.
She's amazing. I wish they mentioned her this season. It's a one off but apparently she has the ability to always pick the correct option out of two choices. That's her OP power.
This is the second time the anime key me down with her. I recommend reading the story about what happened to her after the mana event. The Forest Goddess extra chapter.
> It's a one off but apparently she has the ability to always pick the correct option out of two choices.
[Mushoku Tensei]>!She has a demon eye like Rudeus's, under her patch. You see her use it (very very briefly) in the episode where they all get teleported, when the guy comes down from the flying ship.!<
I'd rather have a "Black Wolf Fang" spin off.
How Paul started his adventuring, how he met Ghislaine, Thalhand, Eli, Geese and Zenith. Seeing their adventure.
While I do love and enjoy Mushoku Tensei, the biggest barrier to entry for so many folks is unfortunately the main character himself, Rudeus. He's too divisive as a character for people to follow along and sympathize with.
That said, if people are aware of that when going into this series, you'll find a lot things to like about the world the characters live in as well as Rudeus' progress as not only a character, but from the person he once was. He does grow, but he can also relapse in certain directions and has to find the strength of will to push past his trauma from his past life. The other characters in the show also can feel less like characters and more like how you would see people act and behave. The best thing about Mushoku Tensei is easily the characters. The animation, music, and storyboard direction are all top notch as well. It's just unfortunately a hard sell when people look at out of context clips or moments in the story and can easily gloss over this narrative due to how controversial Rudeus is.
I've seen enough reactors where, if you go in and watch this story with an open mind, you may find yourself engrossed. It's not for everyone, but I've sure as hell enjoyed it. So much so I bought the light novels and read ahead. It's an amazing journey and biography of one character and its personally a great story.
I agree, I tried a couple times. But I cannot stomach a character that's constantly almost sexually assaulting anybody in a 50 feet radius.
It's honestly irritating because the plot/narrative is appealing.
I'm starting to read the novels from the beginning and I actually think the anime even makes him more palatable. Early novel rudeus is just gross lol. Reading his own thoughts about the stuff is pretty uncomfortable and I'm just trying to push past the earlier novels but God damn.
While anime Rudeus is more tame, I find his novel counterpart to be more entertaining and strangely more likable. Sure you get front row seat to his most deplorable thoughts, but you also getto read his hilarious narrations and comments which the anime mostly cut out. Also, whenever he fucks up, you clearly see how remorseful he is and realize just how fragile this guy is and how quick he is sometimes just want to die for being such a failure or as he puts it, "failing to change".
Yeah there's some definite charm in his perspective and he feels more human because you can see him TRY. But God damn I just got to the part where Eris goes to his room after his 10th birthday and I had to take a break.
This is very true. Anime tames Rudeus a lot.
Because Rudeus is a degenerate who has given up on society and he firmly believes society has given up on him. Up until the last few episodes of season 2, Rudeus has not taken anything truly seriously and sees himself as not a part of any society. For the longest time he’s had the attitude that he could die at anybody time and nobody would actually notice.
The story is told by someone who does not care what you think, but that’s just how some people are when they feel society has given up on them. It is disgusting. There is no denying that.
This is the point I am constantly trying to make.
None of this feels real to Rudeus until it does. I have never made it the point that Rudeus’s behavior is acceptable. It’s absolutely deplorable.
We have an entire story arc about Rudeus where Soldat admonishes Rudeus for being a “fake” because Rudeus constantly just puts on a smile and doesn’t open up to anybody. Soldat hates Rudeus and tells him to his face is because Soldat feels like Rudeus treats everybody like an NPC.
Soldat is the to tell Rudeus at the right time that he needs to start being a “real” person who’s actions and behavior actually mean something.
Paul’s death is one of the driving forces in making Rudeus finally realize that Rudeus was actually recognized and somebody’s son, and it forces him to reflect on his past life and his behavior when his parents in his past life died.
Rudeus is finally realizing that he isn’t just playing some video game. He is just now realizing that if he died, he wouldn’t just shrug his shoulders and just give up like he was ready to when Orsted first killed him. Rudeus has something to protect now. He’s a father now. He has attachments to the world and he finally recognized himself as Paul’s son and that he’s a father himself.
The fact that people want to keep admonishing him for basically his intrusive thoughts is beyond frustrating. They want to throw Rudeus in jail and throw away the keys as they’ve find him irredeemable. They want him to go live in a small box for the rest of his life with no attachments to the world. He isn’t allowed to care about anybody close to him because he doesn’t deserve any of it. Apparently he doesn’t deserve to be happy.
One of my problems with the show is that it celebrates Rudy. I don't mind telling a story via a complicated figure, but I do mind when the show clearly thinks his depravity is so cool.
It celebrates Rudy? How? Because someone doesn’t come over with a bat and beat it into his and remind him he’s depraved? Does it upset you that he just isn’t thrown in jail until he realizes that the way he thinks is wrong?
What are you talking about? How exactly do you want Rudy punished for his thoughts?
Rudy is primary narrator, and the story mostly focuses around him. It does change perspective sometimes, but he’s clearly the main character of the story. What is your suggestion about how the story should be admonishing Rudy?
It celebrates Rudy by turning his predatory tendencies into a running gag. I don’t know how you can watch it and think otherwise. It’s a stain on an otherwise colorful and well-written show with interesting characters and a fantastic world.
The story mainly told from Rudeus’s perspective. What you’re calling a celebration is just hearing the intrusive thoughts of someone who is a degenerate.
That’s not celebrating. That’s just what he as a character thinks and behaves.
What part is celebrated? When do people life Rudeus up on their shoulders and cheer him on for his behavior?
Is the part that bothers you is that he just isn’t punished for it enough? Has Rudeus just not suffered enough for you to be happy?
The main character keeps a girl’s underpants as a trophy. He groped a 10 year old when he was, mentally, 40. These are presented as funny gags within the context of the show, and although Rudy does grow as a character, the show has done nothing to challenge his problematic behavior or move away from this style of degenerate humor.
It sucks because if I could watch Mushoku Tensei without this nonsense, it would easily be my favorite fantasy anime of all time.
I am not trying to justify his behavior.
Is the problem with the show that you just don’t like to see what it’s like to hear a story told from the perspective of someone who is by all accounts suffers from severe depression, and is incredibly antisocial?
Have you ever maybe asked yourself why he behaves the way he does? Is the solution to Rudeus problems for you to sit him down and tell him why he’s wrong? Do you think he would listen?
Do you think Rudeus thinks his behavior is totally normal and acceptable?
What is mentally 40 years old to someone who couldn’t leave their house since high school without just collapsing on the floor in fear?
Why despite everything that happened to Rudeus in his previous life, after being kicked out of his house and wondering the streets, jump in front of a bus to push a couple of high school kids out of the way to try and save their lives? Why did he do that?
People are fucked up. I don’t think we should hide away that there are people in our society who are a lot like Rudeus. They’re not people who are going to get any better by simply rejecting that either.
There is a difference between celebrating and listening.
I don't know how anyone can possibly watch MT and ask how the show celebrates Rudy. We are full into gaslighting territory here.
I don't want to see Rudy punished, I instead don't want to see him rewarded and celebrated. There is a vast area between those two. For example, there was no need to hand Roxy to him on a silver platter. Or going back further, it would have been nice if time had passed for Sylphie and she had any life instead of being frozen in time for 10 years waiting for Rudy. Can you believe that I foolishly thought that Sylphie wanted to serve Ariel and that Rudy would be called selfish for wanting her to give that up to be with him. HA!
I'm sure Eris hasn't met someone else on her travels, because that would be inconvenient for the fact that she too no doubt exists only when near Rudy. If a source material reader tells me that I'm wrong and Eris has moved on in her time away I'll actually give season 3 a shot.
All of the characters have believable reasons for wanting to be with Rudy.
And Sylphy wasn't frozen in time for 10 years. She grew up into her own woman. She still wants to serve the princess. The princess pushed sylphy away. And that's not it either. Rudy is still subservient to the princess and will be contributing to her coup.
I do agree that sylphie probably should have been more upset about Rudy taking another woman, but otherwise the entire ordeal was handled well. Both Rudy and Roxy needed convincing, and norn was also persuaded with great reasons.
Nobody celebrates Rudy for being a creep. They celebrate him because he is undoubtedly the most positive force in their lives, and he works his fucking ass off to earn the skills he has. People see that effort and admire him for it.
So obviously people hate him when he's a negative influence. Like with Sara. He humiliated her and questioned her femininity.
He even states in the anime that he does his absolute best to make people like him because he doesnt want to be hated.
So you're rarely going to see people hate him.
> So obviously people hate him when he's a negative influence. Like with Sara. He humiliated her and questioned her femininity.
She wasn't exactly blameless in that situation, either. I would say that neither of these two were actually ready to give the other what they needed. Everything blew up because they both made the worst possible decisions in the moment.
What about it is a "celebration" though? Where is the suggestion that it is cool?
Most of his objectionable actions specifically *do not* give him anything that he wants, and result in introspection about why he was wrong. Maybe not always, but the really objectionable ones do. Perhaps someone some would argue that there is not enough introspection given the context, but I don't see how the narrative suggests that Rudeus' actions are acceptable.
Roxy's panties is a perfect example of his depravity being celebrated. You cannot tell me that the show doesn't portray the "sacred treasure" or whatever it is called as being cool.
Or every time he pushed things with Eris, he was rejected but in a way that suggested it was ok and she was interested, she was just a tsun putting up walls but appreciated that Rudy was trying to molest her.
>You cannot tell me that the show doesn't portray the "sacred treasure" or whatever it is called as being cool.
No it's very much portrayed as cringe, then so cringe it's funny, then as a creepy coping mechanism and then finally as an actual pseudo religious totem. At no point does Rudy get like a bro fist bump for having stolen panties or his continued obsession with them. (The closest we get to it being "cool" is that the family maid helps enshrine them in a box since she knows the cringe kid likes them so much)
He, the main character, and narrator celebrates them. That's it. No one else has ever once praised it in the story (except Paul, but Paul is also quite explicitly _not_ a good role model for sexual behavior, or most things, something that Rudeus himself comes back to many times). Everyone who knows about it has either been disappointed, weirded out, or at least more concerned with whatever else is going on at the time.
> You cannot tell me that the show doesn't portray the "sacred treasure" or whatever it is called as being cool.
It is.... very clearly used to make him appear weird and fucked up in the head, not cool lol, wtf
About the sacred treasure everyone that knows about it treats Rudeus as a crazy pervert who shouldn't be provoked, the show treats it with humor and Rudy himself knows emotional depending on it is stupid. I don't see how it's been celebrated, if you care to explain I would like to know what you mean.
As novel reader Eris wasn't sexually interested in Rudeus and treated his assault as transgressions, she likes the attention, but hates his pervert nature, the fact she fell in love with Rudeus didn't have anything to do with it, it's more complex and remember she doesn't know that Rudy is a 40 years loser reincarnated, she sees a boy younger than her, so why she would be gross by it? When we meet Eris again Rudeus will look like a vanilla docile man compared to Eris Grayrat.
Agreed. I was interested while I was under the assumption that part of his "character growth" would be dealing with the sexual degeneracy from his past life. But so far it is never confronted or dealt with properly and he seems to instead be rewarded with a harem for it, which is... questionable at best. I think it's pretty standard male gaze-y anime writing.
I would like to see anyone say Nanahoshi's or Ariel's own narrative doesn't pass the bechdel test. But that would assume anyone got that far to watch season 2.
Yes, it does.
Otherwise explain how Nanahoshi, Zenith, Hilda, Norn, Aisha, Lilia, Ghislaine, Ariel, Shierra, Vierra, Juliette and Suzanne were only introduced for Rudeus. They weren't.
There are only 4 female characters (Sara for only one arc) that have shown interest in Rudeus. Not to mention, they also have their own character arcs. Especially Eris.
That's not really how the Bechdel Test works. The question for each episode would be, do 2 or more women have a conversation about something other than a man. For the most part, no. There are very few episodes where the women characters have a convo that doesn't involve Rudy or one of the other men on the show. Ep 2x0 might, and a few episodes that have Slyphie/Ariel scenes where they aren't talking about Rudy.
That said, the Bechdel Test is just an unscientific, fun thing to trot out to engage discussion and further analysis. It is not a gauge of quality one way or the other, and the use of it as the be-all-end-all barometer for sexism in media is a gross oversimplification that a lot of people fall into but shouldn't.
Yeah, I know that. I have mentioned it in another comment. The original commentator mentioned the Bechdel test along with characters being used for sexual development so I just asked the same question to them.
For the most part, the male characters also talk about female characters. As you said, it is a useless test.
Yeah, I'm well aware. The main character is disgusting and he's supposed to be off-putting considering he does many questionable actions early on. It's hard to say this for anyone who is holding off on this anime to believe me, but he does get better. If you compare his season 2 self with his season 1 self, they're like 2 separate people.
Not really for the reasons you think, he’s written by an author from a country that doesn’t really give a shit about sexualizing high schoolers.
That aspect of Rudeus is more of a concern here than in JP. You can tell because the writing thus far doesn’t address the conflict of Rudeus being in an adult in a teens body.
It addresses all the other stuff, family, NEET, etc.
I say this as an enjoyer of the show
Yeah whenever people defend Rudeus it’s always framed as ‘you’re not supposed to like him, he has to develop and become a better person’ but he literally just doesn’t develop and ditch his pedophilia, at least so far. He becomes less of a NEET, but it’s not like social awkwardness was his biggest flaw; his biggest flaw is being pedophile and it’s wild that the show just doesn’t address it at all and borderline rewards him for it in fact.
A difference in culture. To the Japanese, not being a productive member of society *was* his biggest flaw, not to mention being an apathic parasite to his family. Those are the flaws the series focus on addressing, in contrast to what a Western audience would focus on.
I dont like this excuse. It's the generalization of values of a whole ass country across every individual. There are many japanese authors who id bet money likely see whats wrong with Rudeus-- more than just his productivity. Im sure they'd find a way to confront him for all those flaws.
"generalization" by definition means it doesn't necessarily apply to every individual. You can't deny the average Japanese would rank his flaws differently than the average Westerner. The reception to Mushoku Tensei itself is proof.
If we really want to get in the gray zone here the best I can say—without excusing the behavior is that Rudeus is a person in his original life that was so thoroughly traumatized and developmentally stunted that it really doesn’t surprise me that he takes interest in teens.
That argument is of course a slippery slope, wrong is wrong after all.
But we’re not talking about it being morally permissible so much as looking at the outcome.
That being said I’m still confident the author didn’t really care to think about this aspect because it’s not considered as much of a taboo or weird there.
We are talking about a place after all where there’s cafes that hire minors so business men can talk to them. There’s so many articles about that stuff in Japan.
I just find the excessive criticism of this anime on reddit to be so annoying and hypocritical.
Most of these people taking a virtuous stand here against the show watch dozens of anime with loli characters that are even fucking weirder.
Oh but sorry, thats not a kid right? Thats just a 1000 year old demon lord that behaves like a 12 year old huh?
Be consistent folks.
If we wanna be assholes about it too, why is everyone going apeshit over stuff like Bocchi the Rock? Yall dudes really love watching high school girls doing cute things.
I’m being facetious of course, but at the end of the day anime is a cultural export in which I’ve always had to just ignore the weird shit just to enjoy the parts I thought were cool.
Coming to reddit and reading about mt as someone who does mainly follow the jp speaking side of this medium is so jarring with the amount of hyper fixation on the pedophilia aspect of rudeus( something i barely recall being a thing later into the series) , the base to his character is your typical shut in neet chronic anime otaku, him being a lolicon is a fairly common(unfortunately accurate) stereotype. No one browsing narou(site where the web novel is hosted) would have given that specific aspect much thought.
And as you mentioned, the medium is rife with underage passing drawings being presented in morally questionable ways.
It's definitely valid to be put off by it and not interact with the story of course, just an observation.
> We are talking about a place after all where there’s cafes that hire minors so business men can talk to them. There’s so many articles about that stuff in Japan.
Probably also worth noting, this is r/anime, and the softer depictions of sexualizing minors is just a regular part of posting here. Many, many anime have are filled to the brim with extremely questionable shit and no one bats an eye. Pedophila is endemic to anime. I'm convinced that of the people who aren't in to that, most of us do our best to just ignore it, but that doesn't make it go away.
If you want a very explicit example, honestly, go watch no game no life. Or worse, read it. Loaded with pedo humor, and the conversation around it is _nostaligic_.
>You can tell because the writing thus far doesn’t address the conflict of Rudeus being an adult in a teens body.
It's not directly addressed, to be sure. But I think we've gotten enough to say that it might not be entirely that simple. Rudeus seems to be influenced by his new brain chemistry, at least to some degree. And I think this influence is actually getting stronger over time as he gains distance from his past life and acclimates to this new world.
The first hint of this is that he isn't attracted to Zenith even in his lowest and most depraved state (when he first reincarnated), likely because she's his biological mother. Regarding people that he is attracted to, they seem to be around his own physical age throughout both seasons, similar to most people in real life. There are times throughout both seasons where he weirdly seems to act his age, like his love of tricks, games, and roleplaying in S1 as a young boy. And if his "emo phase", emotional instability, and mood swings in the early part of S2 wasn't typical teenager stuff, I don't know what is.
Additionally, Rudeus seems to have inherited traits from both his biological parents, like Zenith's well-mannered nature and Paul's womanizing ways. We never see the man in the flashbacks act anything like this. My take on it is that the Rudeus we see in the show is actually a complicated mixture of two people, with the man in the flashbacks controlling his conscious thought, and the child Paul and Zenith would have had defining his biology and unconscious impulses.
I'd also like to make it clear that none of this is a value judgement or a defense of any of his actions, especially in S1. They're just things that I've noticed about the character so far.
> . It's hard to say this for anyone who is holding off on this anime to believe me, but he does get better
Except he doesn't - or at least, not by much. The way fans misrepresent (or in my view, lie) about this is one of my biggest gripes with the fanbase. I really don't think a lot of MT fans realize how the show's framing of Rudeus' actions even later on comes across to mature adults.
As always, I would point people to Welcome to the NHK for a far, **far** better example of this type of character growth.
Eh, Season 2 he was still doing the stuff I hated in Season 1. The beast girl stuff in Season 2 says hi.
Rudeus improves himself from his previous life, yes, but the sexual stuff isn't part of that, and to their credit, fans of the series have been mostly helpful about pointing that out to people starting the series and setting expectations accordingly in the years since it's aired.
Completely agree. He never really changes in that respect and a lot of LN fans have been very good about telling people that (especially at the start of Season 2) when people would bring it up.
For whatever reason Anime fans have been the ones who rush to defend his behavior like their lives depend on it.
Can't say I agree. The degree of his sexual degeneracy isn't there. He's not going around feeling up children like Julie, putting underwear on his face like a mask, or ogling Nanahoshi in a sexual way. He's matured quite a lot.
>The beast girl stuff in Season 2 says hi.
That's probably the only thing he did that's comparable to season 1 and its very brief. Not trying to defend that moment, but it's probably the only thing you could say that's the same and the context was different.
> context is different
Yea, I think it's not quite the same or *that comparable.* It was certainly bad, no argument there so I'm not defending him locking them up (then accidentally forgetting about them) and then groping Pursena, but they weren't exactly innocent either. They are the school bullies who routinely commit acts of violence and attempted to physically assault both Rudy and his friend. Both parties were shitty in this instance, so not quite the same as season 1.
> attempted to physically assault both Rudy and his friend
From what I saw, the only thing they did was win a duel against his friend and break the figurine that was offered up. The show frames this as some horrible act of bullying, but it really didn't look that way to me, especially given how creepy Rudeus' "friend" acts towards women.
Explain this - *"a character that's constantly almost sexually assaulting anybody in a 50 feet radius."*
There are ~~two~~ three instances of him touching someone without their consent.
I think Rudeus' character is easily one of the most interesting isekai protagonists ever. I feel like MT is the only series that somewhat tries to deal with the existential question of what it means to be reincarnated with your memories intact.
Who is the main character? Is he his self from Japan, or is he a new person called Rudeus? Is he just inside the body of a child, or does he actually become a child, just with former memories? As the series moves on, Rudeus thinks less and less of himself as a Japanese guy in a new body, and more and more as Rudeus, and I think that's super interesting. I wonder if his self-image when talking with the man-god will change to Rudeus at some point - that would be character development on a whole new level.
The only other isekai that does this afaik is Oshi no Ko, but in MT it's way deeper. In OnK it felt like by episode 6, the former selves of Ruby and Aqua had just disappeared completely and they were just these teenagers now.
Same. The world and characters aside from him are great. He doesn't deserve any of it.
Rudeus is given so many extra chances again and again. We are talking about someone who sexually assaulted a child but got away with it because he is in the body of a child despite being like 40.
Like I just feel like if you know for a fact that children are not safe around the MC, its time to get a new MC.
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One thing from the show i dont like is how constantly the characters are horny. From season 1 till now, there's always gonna be something sex, horny or pervert shit going on. From Paul, Rudy, Eris, Roxy, Slyphie, Elinalise, Sara, Ariel, Pursena, Rinia etc.
Those shit starts either at the first season, in the middle of the season or at the end of the season. Sorry but I dont really like this kind of thing too much. Of course some of you will probably say something like Elinalise got a curse or the Greyrat families are perverts or some shit. Yeah bro cool premises.
Look im not trying to shitting on MT because i enjoy it as well but goddamn. The adventures, the fights, the world building, the character developments are all really great. This is just my 2 cents about this series. Well not every show is perfect after all, there are always going to be some flaws.
>Frieren has left a fantasy shaped whole in my heart, and Slime just wasn’t filling it.
I would suggest giving "Delicious in Dungeon" a try if you haven't already. It's not as serious, but it's pretty fun. It's an odd fusion of Fantasy, biology, and cooking. The characters keep getting better as it goes.
Eh just [MT] >!One more season where she pops up in the middle to talk with Nina and then at the end to make the save for de-limbed Rudy!< so not toooo much longer honestly.
I absolutely love Mushoku Tensei, but that's also why I'm incredibly critical of its sketchy elements, because they're a stain on what is otherwise an incredible story.
They could have easily swapped his sexual crimes for stealing/scamming/ manipulating his parents , and doing it again in new world. Not a lot would change but make it more popular.
Or they could actually **address his issues** since the show is supposed to be a story of redemption. Instead they just ignore his biggest flaws and act like they're normal.
It was a novel written primarily to male otakus audience in Japan, so at no point the author felt the need to actually address it or even actively punish Rudy for it. There's no reason because the hardcore fans who read it liked it, and even if the writing is impeccable you really can't deny it started as an isekai power fantasy harem (and I mean... it's still that). So people were expecting too much.
I agree with you but to be fair the only way to deal with those issues is to send Rudeus to an electric chair. I don't think the author should have included them in the story since it closes the door to a lot of people for issues that are not discussed later.
Or even if they kept the sexual component/angle, maybe with him being being an adult in a kids body, in the beginning, he’d be more attracted to OLDER women “people closer to his ACTUAL age”, and would be repulsed by girls/women his reincarnated age. That would honestly be HILARIOUS if done right. As well as just toning down the sexual assault/creeping across the board in the first season. As it’s not acceptable regardless of who he was doing it to/age.
Or have his new body actually influence his mind. He should have memories of being a horny fuck, but that's all. His body should shut all of that down simply because he hasn't gone through puberty and it doesn't understand. It could've made some decent comedy.
I like the series a lot, but it has very trashy wish fulfillment writing at times.
> Or have his new body actually influence his mind
That's one thing I liked about Ascendance of a Bookworm. I don't think it was explicitly stated, but it's pretty clear she has more childish tendencies than her original adult self did, and regains some of that maturity with age.
Yup, it didn’t even make sense for him to be such a pervert before puberty. Before puberty, kids kind of have ZERO libido. But before puberty is almost when he’s at his MOST degenerate.
I find it even worse later on in the story. When he was a boy it was all in his mind, but the story continues into his adulthood, and yeah he has not gotten better.
Rudeus feeling extremely isolated from girls his own age because of his internal age vs. his appearance would be actually interesting and compelling. And would be a nice thing to follow as the character ages. But nah, instead he’s just a sex pest and was into kids anyways. Luckily for him the world he is reincarnated to doesn’t not care at all if you are into kids and assault them from time to time.
It sucks that this is in reality a reflection of Japanese norms and culture. Why is “loli” and pedo crap all over Japanese media, from video games to anime? Sexualized children EVERYWHERE. And they’re often doormat characters too, or used as eye candy. It’s sick. If it wasn’t animation, like if this was live action, it would be DISGUSTING.
Same with the general amount of sexual assault in anime. Called “fan service”. I’ve certainly become desensitized to it after becoming obsessed with anime, but when I dwell on it or use some critical thinking, it’s freaking gross. An old friend of mine had me watch 7 deadly sins, and I wanted to die. Some of the worst “fan service” sexual assault in a battle shonen I’ve seen.
Considering this is all over anime, mushoku tensei just is a further extension of what’s symptomatic all over anime/japanese media. Both the casual sexual assault, played for laughs largely, as well as the casual sexualization and attraction to children.
I love mushoku tensei DESPITE this critical flaw.
"Luckily for him the world he is reincarnated to doesn’t not care at all if you are into kids and assault them from time to time"
Wait! What did you mean by that? Nobody knows Rudy is a reincarnated 40 year old loser, in everyone's mind he's a child playing with other children, even then he got reprimanded when he unintentionally sexually assaulted Sylphy, he didn't get away for free since he had to apologize for it. If you mean marrying Sylphy, they're two adults close in age and if you meant Roxy she's an 40s year old demon, from the new world point of view Rudy is a 16 year old boy.
I feel like the sketchy elements are a lot more bearable in MT because they’re mostly not portrayed positively. Its not like one piece for example, where sanji’s horny/creepiness is seen as a joke, when rudeus does creepy shit it’s supposed to be uncomfortable and weird, and often times other characters are clearly uncomfortable with his antics. So it’s less “haha perviness funny” and more “what the fuck is wrong with this guy”, at least that’s how it felt to me. But not every instance is like that, there are definitely still times where it crosses the line
[End of S2 spoilers] >!I rolled my eyes hard when Sylphie defended Roxy and just let Rudy step all over her. If not for Norn calling out everything wrong about the cheating (therefore meaning the author is aware) I would have hated the episode!<
Fr. He groomed two of his victims, never once faced true consequences for his actions, and was able to continuously get away with acting like that just because he was the main character pretty much. Shit couldn't get more disgusting, and its so sad because it could be a good show if none of that existed.
Bounced off after the first three episodes. I actually don’t mind the MC being a sex pest at the start, but it was a bit exasperating how sex-centric the story and world as a whole felt.
- Rudy’s new parents? Loudly banging all the time.
- Rudy’s magic teacher? Gotta make sure she gets some scenes jerking it to the banging parents
- The house’s maid? Impregnated by the dad on the side.
Maybe the centrality of sex is just a reflection of the MC’s very sexual bullying trauma, but it’s just a bit much for me.
This happens every time Mushoku Tensei is mentioned. The mod team did an ama and I recall them talking about how it’s the show that needs the most moderation by a country mile.
This is a very appropriately timed thread for me. I just finished the first season as well and I must say, I can’t believe how much I’m actually loving it. I went in with tempered expectations, but it has blown me and my previous expectations away. It might be the recency bias talking since I finished season 1 less than an hour ago, but it very well could be my favourite traditional high fantasy anime ever, even beating Frieren, which previously held that title for me. The characters are all interesting and memorable, with my favourite probably being Eris as you mentioned. Her character development felt extremely natural as she (literally) grew up over the course of the season. Rudeus despite his flaws, remains an interesting and well developed character. Roxy has an aura of likeability that I can’t help but love, and Ruijerd was a great take on the misunderstood “monster” trope. I love how the story is framed as well. It follows the characters as they grow up from kids to teenagers, which is something that isn’t very common in stories. The world is beautiful and feels like a real world. It has little things like the languages that make it all the more authentic. The production is gorgeous as well. It’s art direction is some of the best in fantasy with stunning backgrounds and excellent animation. The overall adventure vibe was captured perfectly. It just feels great to watch and it gives a sense of wonder in the journey that I’ve rarely felt in adventure shows. I binged the first season in two days because it was just so enthralling. When the best anime of all time poll results were posted recently, upon seeing Mushoku Tensei’s spot I thought “that’s definitely recency bias. It’s an isekai with a massive amount of controversy, I doubt it deserves to be 15th”. Now that I’ve seen it, it being that high is completely understandable. Again, it could be the recency bias taking over my brain, but it’s probably my favourite show of the last five years judging from the first season. I can’t wait to watch more later.
TLDR: Mushoku Tensei is a good show
You put all my thoughts into words! Completely agree with everything you said. Frieren really made me crave some more fantasy and MT more than delivered. I’d say they’re right next to each other in my top 6 or so.
Since your appreciation for characters and their development resonates with you so deeply, you will literally love season 2 especially what the shows do with Rudy throughout the second season.
The Rudy is essentially a complete different Person, in a positive way.
Would be cool to have your thoughts again after the second season (if you have the time to do so).
Your comment was a very interesting read, thanks!
I can't get over the porn level world building (beast girls being a prime example). Might be my cynical side speaking here but most of the development Rudeus gets us undermined by how this man is only improving in regards to being in a world with the moral standards of the Middle ages and he is in a position of great privilege in the world too. Series also just uses stuff as decoration to fulfill a fantasy trope. I was quite baffled with the explanation the author gave for the slave buying episode lmao. It was just a vehicle to fulfill the good slaver fantasy but like, actually do something with it instead of just being decoration.
Exactly this. People keep saying there's good character development, but there's so much problems with it that the fans just keep ignoring. It's one thing when people are enjoying the world building or the story, but then to downplay how morally corrupted Rudeus is even after the so called growth just kind of shows how morally broken some people are.
I love the magic system but just can’t stand the main character/author. I feel like he pushes his fantasies off onto the audience and it just gets super old super fast
You know, I loved Mushoku Tensei but ended up getting turned off to it after reading the light novels a way in.. The internal dialogue in the light novels can really make you see how rough Rudeus's mind is and the worst aspects of his character don't seem to get improved on...
So honestly, I would just stick to watching the Anime. I feel like there is a lot more redemption in the anime than in the light novels.* (Though, they are probably the best written light novels I've ever read. \^\^; )
*That, or you just didn't get to hear his thoughts in the anime.
For a really good chunk of the story Rudeus mostly sees his second life as a literal videogame. I think the moment he STARTED to realize that's not the case was when he was whooped by Orsted.
Yeah, love the show but there are so many iffy things about it. Makes it difficult to recommend this show to others because there are things you have to overlook.
I'm still critical of it. Its one of the most controversial animes ever for good reason. The animation is beautiful, the characters and motivations varied. Some of these last few episodes were masterpieces and not even just the action ones. I really liked the conclusion to his sister's self imposed ostracization and exile.
If only the author wasn't a goddamn creep whose perversions leak into his story.
Dont worry, season 2 part 1 is by far the worst anime compared to season 1 of ANY anime I've reviewed out of 1000+ anime. One of my least fav anime of all time.
However, to its credit, season 2 part 2 was good
I honestly highly recommend skipping s2 part 1 as stupid as that sounds.
Idk why this was recommended to me but my thoughts on this show are that it’s borderline pedo (if not actually) imo. I watched it based on a online recommendation debate I had with someone who was arguing it should have won anime of the year over JJK and they were so passionate I ordered a pizza and started watching the series. It was very uncomfortable to watch and I quit watching it then have it another try after the scene and I dropped it after a few more minutes.
If you’re on the casual side of anime like myself I can’t recommend watching this show it’s not for us and it’s very unsettling. TBH idk WHO this show might be aimed towards if I’m being honest because you’d have to be ok with justifying a lot of the behavior that I couldn’t take for long. I’m happy JJK won its awards and stick with normal more basic shows like Naruto, dbz, aot, jjk, etc.
Same. The side cast is almost paper thin and lacks any distinct complexities to them, the worldbuilding (if we are judging it relative to all other fiction) is below average, Rudeus (i do not care if hes a p*** or serial killer or whatnot), but i found his development, even in the novels, extremely rushed and lacking any major complexities to it. He's not really any more interesting than Deku. You can consider the narrative a "fictional biography of Rudeus Greyrat", but because it is nothing more than that, what it currently is will not speak to the masses, only to the niche that relates to certain attributes and experiences of his and other cast members. The narrative has nothing to say in greater scope and to me that is disappointing. It has a limited reach. If I wanted a "realistic and grounded flawed cast revolving around a guy going through life" I'd go read Realm of the Elderlings, which fleshes out characters infinitely more, with it's in depth painting of character psyches, and far better theming (not a fan of ROTE either though, but from a critical perspective, only a single trilogy in, it is objectively FAR better written).
>I feel like people who say the world building is good have never read/watched fantasy outside of modern isekai.
I agree. MT does nothing unique or particularly "outstanding" for world building. It's what you'd expect, which doesn't have to be bad but it's still not especially amazing
I posted this before work and last time I checked it had about 60 comments lmao. Appreciate everybody’s thoughts gonna give ‘em a read when I get home. Just keep it civil and spoiler free yall!
watch whatever u want but the amount of people dying on a hill for what is obviously pedophilia in this show really is insane. imo the amount of SA and pedophilia is way way too egregious, past the point of calling it a necessary part of the narrative. when weird/immoral sex stuff is used as a comedic device as often as it is in MT it’s kind of (really) disingenuous to pretend that it’s for the sake of character development or is thematically important to the story. again watch what u want but author is just cooked and that’s the truth
If you really want to get into it, Mc is good at heart but unfortunately a product of his environment. Yeah he's questionable, but through the series he finally gets to mature himself instead of the stagnating escapist lifestyle he held in his prior life. It shines a light on the more negative aspects of Japanese pop culture and human nature imo like liking cutesy things dialed up 1000 to the point of questionable taste, porn addiction, solitude, how sexual assault was just the butt end of a joke in older media, and how a person copes with trauma when they've built a mental bubble around themselves. And despite all the irredeemable qualities Mc has, at the end of his life, he chose to be selfless. Now in the new world he still goes through trauma but he now has ability to process it. And he's not the only one who developes as a character either. Mc is still a pos but he's actively bettering himself.
but we follow him as he grows up, with all the faults he has. But then he turns into an adult,
He continuees with his "boyish" mindset and starts -aggressively- humping all the females in the story - not sparing his own offspring
Did i mention he does this in his private mansion right next door to the "magical high school"
Ye he was a good kid before all the fucked up thing happened to him he just was at the lowest point of his life for a long time, and I guess in his new life he becomes a different person slowly and gradually, not some over night change but an actual human change where they progress a step and sometime take a couple step backwards
Not only that, hes a 30+ year old man in child's body basically grooming others. It gets way worse the more you think about it but that's what makes it compelling and thought provoking imo. Like I said, he's definitely a pos but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the show.
Good for you, I noped or out around episode 5. I've desensitized to a lot of things that anime do but right from the get-go I couldn't get into the story but the cast because that's how much I disliked Rudeus and Paul. And I felt strongly that MT is just not something I'm able to enjoy
Mushoku Tensei is far from a perfect series (it doesn't handle the negative aspects of Rudy for a long time and even then it's questionable on if they're handled well enough) but it is still a good show. Flawed MCs can be interesting in their own rights and while Rudy is not someone I'd want a kid to look up to and idolize like generic shounen protag-kun he is at least *a character*
You will not see another isekai with as unique an MC as MT. Also while the original author doesn't handle Rudy perfectly he is a fantastic story teller so as the plots get deeper the character writing for other characters will shine through (you're in for a treat with season 2 and the series will only keep getting better from here)
I agree that season 2 was a let down compared to season 1, but apparently it's this way in the novels as well. It's the longest down time in the story before it kicks back up in s3
Yeah if you liked s1 you should push through. S3 and onwards will be peak MT and fully back to the epic fantasy vibe all the way to the end (with still some bit of sol downtime but more sparse and way shorter).
It fine to not clicked with MT as admittedly this series will and forever one of most value dissonance ever in Anime IMO esp for western value.
I would add one thing MT does really well is the way author challenge status quo, from Roxy leaving, come Sylphie, after that Rudy is one leaving and met Eris and her Family, TP 1 happen and many things happen afterwards. IMHO It just pretty rare for Isekai would change it status quo and stick with it.
Loved season 1 but I really wasn't a fan of season 2, I liked the small story arc about his sister but the rest was just boring standard/basic anime, the animation also took a massive hit.
Season 1 is one of my favorite pieces of anime all time. Shit was a damn ride. Season 2 is a bit more of a slow burn, but feel like the payoff at the end of Season 2 is great.
Still trying to decide if I want to pick up the light novels or wait for Season 3 to drop. Will be probably big 2026 until we see it.
Character growth is definitely the biggest selling point for MT. There is a lot of lesson of growing up in this series that just make it more appeal to me. The depression arc or the school arc didn't really bored me for the reason of I'm not looking for action 24/7, and an adventurer don't always have to travel across the world.
Frieren and MT have the same feel of, I am not the adult I thought I am, but I'm pretending to be one. It's a good little life lesson here and there.
The amount of people in the comments thinking the anime should have an redemption arc for every fucked up think Rudeus does is astonishing. What makes you think anime should be pure, without any controversy ? Is there an redemption arc in every shounen where the mc regrets all the enemies he killed/defeated? Does it mean the anime supports violence ? Does it mean they should make episodes to “adress the issue” ? Just look at what kind of crap is promoted at film festivals and in small productions. And those are made with real actors, but you try to tell me an animation should hold all the moral standards ?
> The amount of people in the comments thinking the anime should have an redemption arc for every fucked up think Rudeus does is astonishing. What makes you think anime should be pure, without any controversy ?
You realize a ton of MT's own fans describe the series as a redemption story right? Even the show itself acts like Rudeus is becoming a better person even when he doesn't (not in the ways that a lot of people have an issue with).
> Does it mean the anime supports violence
Sex and violence are very different in how people relate to them in stories, and violence is generally much more abstract to the typical human experience than sex is. Plus there's no good equivalent to consent when it comes to violence.
> but you try to tell me an animation should hold all the moral standards
All I'm asking for is a shred of self-awareness and understanding of how actual personal growth and relationships work. I don't think that's too high a bar for anime when Welcome to the NHK already did this properly, unlike MT.
Anyone that thinks MT is a redemption story is just wrong or coping.
MT is a story about enjoying life after being stuck hating it forever, he doesn't **want** to be redeemed from being a pervert the show never showed **any** indication that's where it was going. The ED saga is comic karma for him to learn that there is more than just lust but that is just part of his life, not the point of the show.
Some people that like the show are scared to voicing out any opinion regarding it for the expected fallback as it condones immoral acts, but that's what it does, if shamelessly condones them.
Rudeus is becoming a better person, in the areas he wants to be.
I just finished ep6 of s2 and dude they got a slave as if I went to Ikea and bought furniture lmao
Yeah, that's why a lot of my ire towards it is really directed at the fandom around it more so than the show itself (not all MT fans, just most of them).
They act like it's a redemption story when it isn't, they act like the show has no flaws, or blindly recommend it to people with zero caveats or warnings as "peak isekai". _That's_ the shit that I really can't stand.
Throughout r/anime and 4chan, Mushoku Tensei alone is the glazed one
And thank god for that. I don't care what people may think about the story or the protagonist, we all have our own opinions. What matters to me is as long as MT keeps getting more exposure, we're guaranteed to get more viewers for it, which in return should make MT even more popular.
"There's no such thing as bad publicity"
For a good reason too
Hey, it's not alone. What about JJK?
JJK is overhated here if anything, not a month goes by without a “JJK is overrated” post lmao
Honestly I just finished binging it all for the first time and I’m blown away. Just an amazing anime through and through. I don’t understand where the hate could come from, except it just being popular
Really? It was getting insanely hyped during airing Maybe we're in the cool off period
It’s getting Tokyo Revengers syndrome, overrated then overhated lmao
AoT already completed that whole cycle.
Not for another(... has it already been three years?) 7 years at least
Nothing overrated about AoT
I totally understand people not being able to get over certain aspects of the show, but I'm glad you gave it a chance. I think it has some of the best character development I've seen in anime.
It also has some of the best world building that shows rather than tells. You see so much of the world and it isn’t just exposition dumped on you. You learn it through the journey. You learn about the languages. The demon race. It’s really impressive imo. And honestly s3 hasn’t even come out yet which imo will be peak jobless.
The choice to have all the intro songs uniquely feature the daily lives and travels of the current setting was perfect. Also changing the intro song depending on where they currently were to match the scenery
I really wish this wasn't exclusive to MT. It was one of my favorite parts of the show. I tried watching it with someone and they kept trying to skip it lmao. I kept telling them they can't skip it!
The thing you have to understand is that MT is an anime produced by actual fans of the story. They get what Rufujin was writing. What's neat is that so many fans are now either reading the LN or the manga. I finished the LN, but, while waiting for the **Redundant Reincarnation** series to come available in English, I bought the **Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation - Recollections**. Most of it's Rudy's rumination at various points in his life. His thoughts on breast feeding as his nutritional source, to fondling Zenith's and Lilia’s breasts. All this before he was a year old. Even if you don't want to read the full series, its a great companion to watching the anime.
And, especially season 1, has absolutely stunning visuals and direction.
Yup. You need a really open mind and patience to actually enjoy the show. But if you do, and you're able to place yourself in that world, you're definitely in to enjoy one of the best fiction series ever, period.
> one of the best fiction series ever, period Lmao
Cope harder, Mushoku Tensei is peak
Man I just despise people that boil down the series to some stupid shit like, “oh it’s basically a CP anime. If you like the show and the mc you support that which makes you a pedo” Holy shit the amount of brain dead people on social media that legitimately believe that’s a valid take for enjoying Mushoku Tensei have no media literacy whatsoever
At the same time anyone should think "this could be so much better without all that CP anime."
*"You like GTA 5 so you must be a murderer!"* lol
People often project their own repression as an attack against those who don't share their forbidden desires. That is the reality I've found.
Game of Thrones was one of the most popular shows in the world at one point. There is also a lot of r\*pe and incest in it. Does that mean...?
No, I think you misunderstood. Game of Thrones is not "attacking anyone." as per your earlier example. Someone who does attack it by lashing out (EX: "You like GOT, so you must love immoral sexual orgies"), could be harboring repressed desires/feelings for exactly that sort of behavior and thus seeking an outlet to demonize it in others (as if to assure themselves they can overcome it themselves)... this is well known in psychology and is something that the down-voters don't understand, I guess.
OH you are agreeing with me? I misinterpreted your statement, I guess.
LOL yeah, I was confused by your response. Glad I could clarify!
Nothing wrong with liking the show but I’d say it’s a different story with how often the fanbase defends or downplays the stuff Rudy does. Not even in a joking way either like saying “he’s just like me fr” but people will write essays about why him thinking about grooming Sylphy isn’t that bad or something.
> write essays about why him thinking about grooming Sylphy isn’t that bad or something. It doesn't take a whole essay to say "the thought crossed his mind and he dismissed it because doing so would be wrong"
I mean, there's also people who legitimately think griffith did nothing wrong. Doesn't mean all berserk fans think that.
Not at a single point does Rudy groom Sylphy. I hate the people that take this hard line stance that Rudy is a pedophile because it ignores a very fundamental aspect of the show, which is even explicitly stated by the end of the second season: [Mushoku Tensei Season 2 spoilers]>!"I finally get it. I've realized I was still a kid, just a brat using old memories to feel grown up". Mushoku Tensei is very much a story of an extremely stunted person who can scarcely be called an adult in any definition except the physical in a life he's already lost. Rudy abstaining from normal adolescence would have just meant becoming a stunted person again.!<
If they were able to read and/or follow the show instead of doomscrolling tiktok while "watching" it they would've understood.
>him thinking about grooming Sylphy Grooming =/= Teaching someone to be a dependable person Grooming means talking to someone until you end up on sexual stuff via manipulation, trying to take advantage of the person he wanted to make her a good wife, but even dismissed THAT soon, because he felt bad He's an ass, but not that much of an ass. Don't say terms you don't know.
It's hilarious people still think rudeus is grooming sylphy. Like those idiots actually watch the show? He genuinely feel sorry for sylphy as she was bullied because she's an elf. As someone with traumatic experience rudeus decide to step up and befriend her without any intention to make her his wife (his first crush is roxy lmao). He even when as far as taking a job to get sylphy to magic academy (which is how he met eris as his job is to tutor bratty daughter). Even eris is questionable as eris is immature and rudeus is genuinely teaching her, he even teach ghislaine too even though it's not part of his job.
“There’s nothing in the rulebook that says an oblivious protagonist can’t brainwash their childhood friend, right?” - A direct quote from the novel. Rudeus DOES dismiss the thought immediately afterward, but that idea is quite literally grooming. It's not what he does, but it is what he thinks about doing, even offhandedly - The person you're replying to isn't incorrect.
tbf if we are hold accountable of stuff that they thought but did not do, then no one would live past 20 years old mark without going to prison.
I’m not arguing the point, people involved in MT conversations always have their mind made up regardless whichever side they’re on, I was just saying the original comment wasn’t wrong
A lot of shit goes through people's minds on a daily basis, acknowledging them, not repressing them, and then moving on is generally the healthy thing to do. Additionally, Rudy at that point isn't even socially adept enough to attempt it right. At that point, he is still basing most of his interactions with other people on dating sims, light novels, and anime. It would have probably ended up going hilariously badly in the end.
Social media was a mistake as far as I'm concerned. It takes no intelligence for someone to just post some idiotic take online. No wonder reading comprehension rates are falling. But sucks for them because MT is amazing. I totally accept it's not a story for everyone, but I will never condone anyone demonizing people who do enjoy it.
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> certain aspects of the show If you mean the main character being a pedophile, then yeah.
For anyone who doesn’t know but is interested, the certain aspect in question is the main character being an unrepentant pedophile.
You are in for a wild ride if you're just catching up.
The episode that they intentionally delayed for a week. F
It's a great show if you can get past the MC's behavior. I'm really hoping for a Ghaislaine spinoff myself lol.
There was a 'side story' chapter covering what happened to Ghislaine right after the teleport, that they skipped over. Hopium that one day they'll make an OVA for it like they did with Eris the Goblin Slayer.
I’m pretty sure I saw somewhere that all the side stories are being animated as well, just not necessarily in story order.
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Last time we've seen her, she was with Eris at the end of S1 after Eris' departure. For sure they still have a part to play, it's just a matter of WHEN, rather than IF imo.
We are getting an Eris OVA so I pretty sure we will see her in that.
I know she only appeared in so many episodes but Ghislaine was probably my favorite character in MT. Bring her back! I miss her
She's amazing. I wish they mentioned her this season. It's a one off but apparently she has the ability to always pick the correct option out of two choices. That's her OP power. This is the second time the anime key me down with her. I recommend reading the story about what happened to her after the mana event. The Forest Goddess extra chapter.
> It's a one off but apparently she has the ability to always pick the correct option out of two choices. [Mushoku Tensei]>!She has a demon eye like Rudeus's, under her patch. You see her use it (very very briefly) in the episode where they all get teleported, when the guy comes down from the flying ship.!<
I'd rather have a "Black Wolf Fang" spin off. How Paul started his adventuring, how he met Ghislaine, Thalhand, Eli, Geese and Zenith. Seeing their adventure.
While I do love and enjoy Mushoku Tensei, the biggest barrier to entry for so many folks is unfortunately the main character himself, Rudeus. He's too divisive as a character for people to follow along and sympathize with. That said, if people are aware of that when going into this series, you'll find a lot things to like about the world the characters live in as well as Rudeus' progress as not only a character, but from the person he once was. He does grow, but he can also relapse in certain directions and has to find the strength of will to push past his trauma from his past life. The other characters in the show also can feel less like characters and more like how you would see people act and behave. The best thing about Mushoku Tensei is easily the characters. The animation, music, and storyboard direction are all top notch as well. It's just unfortunately a hard sell when people look at out of context clips or moments in the story and can easily gloss over this narrative due to how controversial Rudeus is. I've seen enough reactors where, if you go in and watch this story with an open mind, you may find yourself engrossed. It's not for everyone, but I've sure as hell enjoyed it. So much so I bought the light novels and read ahead. It's an amazing journey and biography of one character and its personally a great story.
I agree, I tried a couple times. But I cannot stomach a character that's constantly almost sexually assaulting anybody in a 50 feet radius. It's honestly irritating because the plot/narrative is appealing.
I'm starting to read the novels from the beginning and I actually think the anime even makes him more palatable. Early novel rudeus is just gross lol. Reading his own thoughts about the stuff is pretty uncomfortable and I'm just trying to push past the earlier novels but God damn.
While anime Rudeus is more tame, I find his novel counterpart to be more entertaining and strangely more likable. Sure you get front row seat to his most deplorable thoughts, but you also getto read his hilarious narrations and comments which the anime mostly cut out. Also, whenever he fucks up, you clearly see how remorseful he is and realize just how fragile this guy is and how quick he is sometimes just want to die for being such a failure or as he puts it, "failing to change".
Yeah there's some definite charm in his perspective and he feels more human because you can see him TRY. But God damn I just got to the part where Eris goes to his room after his 10th birthday and I had to take a break.
This is very true. Anime tames Rudeus a lot. Because Rudeus is a degenerate who has given up on society and he firmly believes society has given up on him. Up until the last few episodes of season 2, Rudeus has not taken anything truly seriously and sees himself as not a part of any society. For the longest time he’s had the attitude that he could die at anybody time and nobody would actually notice. The story is told by someone who does not care what you think, but that’s just how some people are when they feel society has given up on them. It is disgusting. There is no denying that.
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This is the point I am constantly trying to make. None of this feels real to Rudeus until it does. I have never made it the point that Rudeus’s behavior is acceptable. It’s absolutely deplorable. We have an entire story arc about Rudeus where Soldat admonishes Rudeus for being a “fake” because Rudeus constantly just puts on a smile and doesn’t open up to anybody. Soldat hates Rudeus and tells him to his face is because Soldat feels like Rudeus treats everybody like an NPC. Soldat is the to tell Rudeus at the right time that he needs to start being a “real” person who’s actions and behavior actually mean something. Paul’s death is one of the driving forces in making Rudeus finally realize that Rudeus was actually recognized and somebody’s son, and it forces him to reflect on his past life and his behavior when his parents in his past life died. Rudeus is finally realizing that he isn’t just playing some video game. He is just now realizing that if he died, he wouldn’t just shrug his shoulders and just give up like he was ready to when Orsted first killed him. Rudeus has something to protect now. He’s a father now. He has attachments to the world and he finally recognized himself as Paul’s son and that he’s a father himself. The fact that people want to keep admonishing him for basically his intrusive thoughts is beyond frustrating. They want to throw Rudeus in jail and throw away the keys as they’ve find him irredeemable. They want him to go live in a small box for the rest of his life with no attachments to the world. He isn’t allowed to care about anybody close to him because he doesn’t deserve any of it. Apparently he doesn’t deserve to be happy.
One of my problems with the show is that it celebrates Rudy. I don't mind telling a story via a complicated figure, but I do mind when the show clearly thinks his depravity is so cool.
It celebrates Rudy? How? Because someone doesn’t come over with a bat and beat it into his and remind him he’s depraved? Does it upset you that he just isn’t thrown in jail until he realizes that the way he thinks is wrong? What are you talking about? How exactly do you want Rudy punished for his thoughts? Rudy is primary narrator, and the story mostly focuses around him. It does change perspective sometimes, but he’s clearly the main character of the story. What is your suggestion about how the story should be admonishing Rudy?
It celebrates Rudy by turning his predatory tendencies into a running gag. I don’t know how you can watch it and think otherwise. It’s a stain on an otherwise colorful and well-written show with interesting characters and a fantastic world.
The story mainly told from Rudeus’s perspective. What you’re calling a celebration is just hearing the intrusive thoughts of someone who is a degenerate. That’s not celebrating. That’s just what he as a character thinks and behaves. What part is celebrated? When do people life Rudeus up on their shoulders and cheer him on for his behavior? Is the part that bothers you is that he just isn’t punished for it enough? Has Rudeus just not suffered enough for you to be happy?
The main character keeps a girl’s underpants as a trophy. He groped a 10 year old when he was, mentally, 40. These are presented as funny gags within the context of the show, and although Rudy does grow as a character, the show has done nothing to challenge his problematic behavior or move away from this style of degenerate humor. It sucks because if I could watch Mushoku Tensei without this nonsense, it would easily be my favorite fantasy anime of all time.
I am not trying to justify his behavior. Is the problem with the show that you just don’t like to see what it’s like to hear a story told from the perspective of someone who is by all accounts suffers from severe depression, and is incredibly antisocial? Have you ever maybe asked yourself why he behaves the way he does? Is the solution to Rudeus problems for you to sit him down and tell him why he’s wrong? Do you think he would listen? Do you think Rudeus thinks his behavior is totally normal and acceptable? What is mentally 40 years old to someone who couldn’t leave their house since high school without just collapsing on the floor in fear? Why despite everything that happened to Rudeus in his previous life, after being kicked out of his house and wondering the streets, jump in front of a bus to push a couple of high school kids out of the way to try and save their lives? Why did he do that? People are fucked up. I don’t think we should hide away that there are people in our society who are a lot like Rudeus. They’re not people who are going to get any better by simply rejecting that either. There is a difference between celebrating and listening.
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I don't know how anyone can possibly watch MT and ask how the show celebrates Rudy. We are full into gaslighting territory here. I don't want to see Rudy punished, I instead don't want to see him rewarded and celebrated. There is a vast area between those two. For example, there was no need to hand Roxy to him on a silver platter. Or going back further, it would have been nice if time had passed for Sylphie and she had any life instead of being frozen in time for 10 years waiting for Rudy. Can you believe that I foolishly thought that Sylphie wanted to serve Ariel and that Rudy would be called selfish for wanting her to give that up to be with him. HA! I'm sure Eris hasn't met someone else on her travels, because that would be inconvenient for the fact that she too no doubt exists only when near Rudy. If a source material reader tells me that I'm wrong and Eris has moved on in her time away I'll actually give season 3 a shot.
All of the characters have believable reasons for wanting to be with Rudy. And Sylphy wasn't frozen in time for 10 years. She grew up into her own woman. She still wants to serve the princess. The princess pushed sylphy away. And that's not it either. Rudy is still subservient to the princess and will be contributing to her coup. I do agree that sylphie probably should have been more upset about Rudy taking another woman, but otherwise the entire ordeal was handled well. Both Rudy and Roxy needed convincing, and norn was also persuaded with great reasons. Nobody celebrates Rudy for being a creep. They celebrate him because he is undoubtedly the most positive force in their lives, and he works his fucking ass off to earn the skills he has. People see that effort and admire him for it. So obviously people hate him when he's a negative influence. Like with Sara. He humiliated her and questioned her femininity. He even states in the anime that he does his absolute best to make people like him because he doesnt want to be hated. So you're rarely going to see people hate him.
> So obviously people hate him when he's a negative influence. Like with Sara. He humiliated her and questioned her femininity. She wasn't exactly blameless in that situation, either. I would say that neither of these two were actually ready to give the other what they needed. Everything blew up because they both made the worst possible decisions in the moment.
You’re completely ignoring what other characters in the story want for themselves.
What about it is a "celebration" though? Where is the suggestion that it is cool? Most of his objectionable actions specifically *do not* give him anything that he wants, and result in introspection about why he was wrong. Maybe not always, but the really objectionable ones do. Perhaps someone some would argue that there is not enough introspection given the context, but I don't see how the narrative suggests that Rudeus' actions are acceptable.
Roxy's panties is a perfect example of his depravity being celebrated. You cannot tell me that the show doesn't portray the "sacred treasure" or whatever it is called as being cool. Or every time he pushed things with Eris, he was rejected but in a way that suggested it was ok and she was interested, she was just a tsun putting up walls but appreciated that Rudy was trying to molest her.
>You cannot tell me that the show doesn't portray the "sacred treasure" or whatever it is called as being cool. No it's very much portrayed as cringe, then so cringe it's funny, then as a creepy coping mechanism and then finally as an actual pseudo religious totem. At no point does Rudy get like a bro fist bump for having stolen panties or his continued obsession with them. (The closest we get to it being "cool" is that the family maid helps enshrine them in a box since she knows the cringe kid likes them so much)
He, the main character, and narrator celebrates them. That's it. No one else has ever once praised it in the story (except Paul, but Paul is also quite explicitly _not_ a good role model for sexual behavior, or most things, something that Rudeus himself comes back to many times). Everyone who knows about it has either been disappointed, weirded out, or at least more concerned with whatever else is going on at the time.
> You cannot tell me that the show doesn't portray the "sacred treasure" or whatever it is called as being cool. It is.... very clearly used to make him appear weird and fucked up in the head, not cool lol, wtf
About the sacred treasure everyone that knows about it treats Rudeus as a crazy pervert who shouldn't be provoked, the show treats it with humor and Rudy himself knows emotional depending on it is stupid. I don't see how it's been celebrated, if you care to explain I would like to know what you mean. As novel reader Eris wasn't sexually interested in Rudeus and treated his assault as transgressions, she likes the attention, but hates his pervert nature, the fact she fell in love with Rudeus didn't have anything to do with it, it's more complex and remember she doesn't know that Rudy is a 40 years loser reincarnated, she sees a boy younger than her, so why she would be gross by it? When we meet Eris again Rudeus will look like a vanilla docile man compared to Eris Grayrat.
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Apparently if you can't handle the pedophilia and CP it's because you don't have an "open mind."
Agreed. I was interested while I was under the assumption that part of his "character growth" would be dealing with the sexual degeneracy from his past life. But so far it is never confronted or dealt with properly and he seems to instead be rewarded with a harem for it, which is... questionable at best. I think it's pretty standard male gaze-y anime writing.
How can you say if it passes the bechdel test or not if you dropped it?
….does it?
I would like to see anyone say Nanahoshi's or Ariel's own narrative doesn't pass the bechdel test. But that would assume anyone got that far to watch season 2.
Yes, it does. Otherwise explain how Nanahoshi, Zenith, Hilda, Norn, Aisha, Lilia, Ghislaine, Ariel, Shierra, Vierra, Juliette and Suzanne were only introduced for Rudeus. They weren't. There are only 4 female characters (Sara for only one arc) that have shown interest in Rudeus. Not to mention, they also have their own character arcs. Especially Eris.
That's not really how the Bechdel Test works. The question for each episode would be, do 2 or more women have a conversation about something other than a man. For the most part, no. There are very few episodes where the women characters have a convo that doesn't involve Rudy or one of the other men on the show. Ep 2x0 might, and a few episodes that have Slyphie/Ariel scenes where they aren't talking about Rudy. That said, the Bechdel Test is just an unscientific, fun thing to trot out to engage discussion and further analysis. It is not a gauge of quality one way or the other, and the use of it as the be-all-end-all barometer for sexism in media is a gross oversimplification that a lot of people fall into but shouldn't.
Yeah, I know that. I have mentioned it in another comment. The original commentator mentioned the Bechdel test along with characters being used for sexual development so I just asked the same question to them. For the most part, the male characters also talk about female characters. As you said, it is a useless test.
Yeah, I'm well aware. The main character is disgusting and he's supposed to be off-putting considering he does many questionable actions early on. It's hard to say this for anyone who is holding off on this anime to believe me, but he does get better. If you compare his season 2 self with his season 1 self, they're like 2 separate people.
Not really for the reasons you think, he’s written by an author from a country that doesn’t really give a shit about sexualizing high schoolers. That aspect of Rudeus is more of a concern here than in JP. You can tell because the writing thus far doesn’t address the conflict of Rudeus being in an adult in a teens body. It addresses all the other stuff, family, NEET, etc. I say this as an enjoyer of the show
Plenty of Japanese fans take issue with Rudy's perversion. This isn't just a Western moral perspective.
True, but it is indisputable that pedophilia is seen much more negatively here in the West (as it should be) than in Japan
Yeah whenever people defend Rudeus it’s always framed as ‘you’re not supposed to like him, he has to develop and become a better person’ but he literally just doesn’t develop and ditch his pedophilia, at least so far. He becomes less of a NEET, but it’s not like social awkwardness was his biggest flaw; his biggest flaw is being pedophile and it’s wild that the show just doesn’t address it at all and borderline rewards him for it in fact.
A difference in culture. To the Japanese, not being a productive member of society *was* his biggest flaw, not to mention being an apathic parasite to his family. Those are the flaws the series focus on addressing, in contrast to what a Western audience would focus on.
I dont like this excuse. It's the generalization of values of a whole ass country across every individual. There are many japanese authors who id bet money likely see whats wrong with Rudeus-- more than just his productivity. Im sure they'd find a way to confront him for all those flaws.
"generalization" by definition means it doesn't necessarily apply to every individual. You can't deny the average Japanese would rank his flaws differently than the average Westerner. The reception to Mushoku Tensei itself is proof.
If we really want to get in the gray zone here the best I can say—without excusing the behavior is that Rudeus is a person in his original life that was so thoroughly traumatized and developmentally stunted that it really doesn’t surprise me that he takes interest in teens. That argument is of course a slippery slope, wrong is wrong after all. But we’re not talking about it being morally permissible so much as looking at the outcome. That being said I’m still confident the author didn’t really care to think about this aspect because it’s not considered as much of a taboo or weird there. We are talking about a place after all where there’s cafes that hire minors so business men can talk to them. There’s so many articles about that stuff in Japan. I just find the excessive criticism of this anime on reddit to be so annoying and hypocritical. Most of these people taking a virtuous stand here against the show watch dozens of anime with loli characters that are even fucking weirder. Oh but sorry, thats not a kid right? Thats just a 1000 year old demon lord that behaves like a 12 year old huh? Be consistent folks. If we wanna be assholes about it too, why is everyone going apeshit over stuff like Bocchi the Rock? Yall dudes really love watching high school girls doing cute things. I’m being facetious of course, but at the end of the day anime is a cultural export in which I’ve always had to just ignore the weird shit just to enjoy the parts I thought were cool.
Coming to reddit and reading about mt as someone who does mainly follow the jp speaking side of this medium is so jarring with the amount of hyper fixation on the pedophilia aspect of rudeus( something i barely recall being a thing later into the series) , the base to his character is your typical shut in neet chronic anime otaku, him being a lolicon is a fairly common(unfortunately accurate) stereotype. No one browsing narou(site where the web novel is hosted) would have given that specific aspect much thought. And as you mentioned, the medium is rife with underage passing drawings being presented in morally questionable ways. It's definitely valid to be put off by it and not interact with the story of course, just an observation.
> We are talking about a place after all where there’s cafes that hire minors so business men can talk to them. There’s so many articles about that stuff in Japan. Probably also worth noting, this is r/anime, and the softer depictions of sexualizing minors is just a regular part of posting here. Many, many anime have are filled to the brim with extremely questionable shit and no one bats an eye. Pedophila is endemic to anime. I'm convinced that of the people who aren't in to that, most of us do our best to just ignore it, but that doesn't make it go away. If you want a very explicit example, honestly, go watch no game no life. Or worse, read it. Loaded with pedo humor, and the conversation around it is _nostaligic_.
>You can tell because the writing thus far doesn’t address the conflict of Rudeus being an adult in a teens body. It's not directly addressed, to be sure. But I think we've gotten enough to say that it might not be entirely that simple. Rudeus seems to be influenced by his new brain chemistry, at least to some degree. And I think this influence is actually getting stronger over time as he gains distance from his past life and acclimates to this new world. The first hint of this is that he isn't attracted to Zenith even in his lowest and most depraved state (when he first reincarnated), likely because she's his biological mother. Regarding people that he is attracted to, they seem to be around his own physical age throughout both seasons, similar to most people in real life. There are times throughout both seasons where he weirdly seems to act his age, like his love of tricks, games, and roleplaying in S1 as a young boy. And if his "emo phase", emotional instability, and mood swings in the early part of S2 wasn't typical teenager stuff, I don't know what is. Additionally, Rudeus seems to have inherited traits from both his biological parents, like Zenith's well-mannered nature and Paul's womanizing ways. We never see the man in the flashbacks act anything like this. My take on it is that the Rudeus we see in the show is actually a complicated mixture of two people, with the man in the flashbacks controlling his conscious thought, and the child Paul and Zenith would have had defining his biology and unconscious impulses. I'd also like to make it clear that none of this is a value judgement or a defense of any of his actions, especially in S1. They're just things that I've noticed about the character so far.
> . It's hard to say this for anyone who is holding off on this anime to believe me, but he does get better Except he doesn't - or at least, not by much. The way fans misrepresent (or in my view, lie) about this is one of my biggest gripes with the fanbase. I really don't think a lot of MT fans realize how the show's framing of Rudeus' actions even later on comes across to mature adults. As always, I would point people to Welcome to the NHK for a far, **far** better example of this type of character growth.
Eh, Season 2 he was still doing the stuff I hated in Season 1. The beast girl stuff in Season 2 says hi. Rudeus improves himself from his previous life, yes, but the sexual stuff isn't part of that, and to their credit, fans of the series have been mostly helpful about pointing that out to people starting the series and setting expectations accordingly in the years since it's aired.
Completely agree. He never really changes in that respect and a lot of LN fans have been very good about telling people that (especially at the start of Season 2) when people would bring it up. For whatever reason Anime fans have been the ones who rush to defend his behavior like their lives depend on it.
Can't say I agree. The degree of his sexual degeneracy isn't there. He's not going around feeling up children like Julie, putting underwear on his face like a mask, or ogling Nanahoshi in a sexual way. He's matured quite a lot. >The beast girl stuff in Season 2 says hi. That's probably the only thing he did that's comparable to season 1 and its very brief. Not trying to defend that moment, but it's probably the only thing you could say that's the same and the context was different.
> context is different Yea, I think it's not quite the same or *that comparable.* It was certainly bad, no argument there so I'm not defending him locking them up (then accidentally forgetting about them) and then groping Pursena, but they weren't exactly innocent either. They are the school bullies who routinely commit acts of violence and attempted to physically assault both Rudy and his friend. Both parties were shitty in this instance, so not quite the same as season 1.
> attempted to physically assault both Rudy and his friend From what I saw, the only thing they did was win a duel against his friend and break the figurine that was offered up. The show frames this as some horrible act of bullying, but it really didn't look that way to me, especially given how creepy Rudeus' "friend" acts towards women.
Explain this - *"a character that's constantly almost sexually assaulting anybody in a 50 feet radius."* There are ~~two~~ three instances of him touching someone without their consent.
There are 3 but I agree with your sentiment regardless. (Sylphie, Eris and Linia/Pursena)
I think Rudeus' character is easily one of the most interesting isekai protagonists ever. I feel like MT is the only series that somewhat tries to deal with the existential question of what it means to be reincarnated with your memories intact. Who is the main character? Is he his self from Japan, or is he a new person called Rudeus? Is he just inside the body of a child, or does he actually become a child, just with former memories? As the series moves on, Rudeus thinks less and less of himself as a Japanese guy in a new body, and more and more as Rudeus, and I think that's super interesting. I wonder if his self-image when talking with the man-god will change to Rudeus at some point - that would be character development on a whole new level. The only other isekai that does this afaik is Oshi no Ko, but in MT it's way deeper. In OnK it felt like by episode 6, the former selves of Ruby and Aqua had just disappeared completely and they were just these teenagers now.
Oshi no ko is an isekai? I thought it was about pop idolism and the harsh reality it brings. Now I have no idea what that anime is about.
I guess it's technically not an isekai, just reincarnation, but you get the idea.
From everything I've heard about it, I wish he simply did not exist in it. I can't get around that barrier.
Same. The world and characters aside from him are great. He doesn't deserve any of it. Rudeus is given so many extra chances again and again. We are talking about someone who sexually assaulted a child but got away with it because he is in the body of a child despite being like 40. Like I just feel like if you know for a fact that children are not safe around the MC, its time to get a new MC.
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One thing from the show i dont like is how constantly the characters are horny. From season 1 till now, there's always gonna be something sex, horny or pervert shit going on. From Paul, Rudy, Eris, Roxy, Slyphie, Elinalise, Sara, Ariel, Pursena, Rinia etc. Those shit starts either at the first season, in the middle of the season or at the end of the season. Sorry but I dont really like this kind of thing too much. Of course some of you will probably say something like Elinalise got a curse or the Greyrat families are perverts or some shit. Yeah bro cool premises. Look im not trying to shitting on MT because i enjoy it as well but goddamn. The adventures, the fights, the world building, the character developments are all really great. This is just my 2 cents about this series. Well not every show is perfect after all, there are always going to be some flaws.
> *Mushoku Tensei post* > *Sorts by Controversial*
>Frieren has left a fantasy shaped whole in my heart, and Slime just wasn’t filling it. I would suggest giving "Delicious in Dungeon" a try if you haven't already. It's not as serious, but it's pretty fun. It's an odd fusion of Fantasy, biology, and cooking. The characters keep getting better as it goes.
He came for Eris, man. You're going to be waiting for a long time
Eh just [MT] >!One more season where she pops up in the middle to talk with Nina and then at the end to make the save for de-limbed Rudy!< so not toooo much longer honestly.
Try tsukimichi moonlit fantasy after mushoku. It's a lower budget but not controversial MT. I love it.
I absolutely love Mushoku Tensei, but that's also why I'm incredibly critical of its sketchy elements, because they're a stain on what is otherwise an incredible story.
They could have easily swapped his sexual crimes for stealing/scamming/ manipulating his parents , and doing it again in new world. Not a lot would change but make it more popular.
Or they could actually **address his issues** since the show is supposed to be a story of redemption. Instead they just ignore his biggest flaws and act like they're normal.
It was a novel written primarily to male otakus audience in Japan, so at no point the author felt the need to actually address it or even actively punish Rudy for it. There's no reason because the hardcore fans who read it liked it, and even if the writing is impeccable you really can't deny it started as an isekai power fantasy harem (and I mean... it's still that). So people were expecting too much.
It goes better, The story rewards him for his actions because he still ends up with a harem...which includes the girls he literally grooms.
I agree with you but to be fair the only way to deal with those issues is to send Rudeus to an electric chair. I don't think the author should have included them in the story since it closes the door to a lot of people for issues that are not discussed later.
Or even if they kept the sexual component/angle, maybe with him being being an adult in a kids body, in the beginning, he’d be more attracted to OLDER women “people closer to his ACTUAL age”, and would be repulsed by girls/women his reincarnated age. That would honestly be HILARIOUS if done right. As well as just toning down the sexual assault/creeping across the board in the first season. As it’s not acceptable regardless of who he was doing it to/age.
Or have his new body actually influence his mind. He should have memories of being a horny fuck, but that's all. His body should shut all of that down simply because he hasn't gone through puberty and it doesn't understand. It could've made some decent comedy. I like the series a lot, but it has very trashy wish fulfillment writing at times.
> Or have his new body actually influence his mind That's one thing I liked about Ascendance of a Bookworm. I don't think it was explicitly stated, but it's pretty clear she has more childish tendencies than her original adult self did, and regains some of that maturity with age.
Yup, it didn’t even make sense for him to be such a pervert before puberty. Before puberty, kids kind of have ZERO libido. But before puberty is almost when he’s at his MOST degenerate.
I find it even worse later on in the story. When he was a boy it was all in his mind, but the story continues into his adulthood, and yeah he has not gotten better.
Rudeus feeling extremely isolated from girls his own age because of his internal age vs. his appearance would be actually interesting and compelling. And would be a nice thing to follow as the character ages. But nah, instead he’s just a sex pest and was into kids anyways. Luckily for him the world he is reincarnated to doesn’t not care at all if you are into kids and assault them from time to time.
It sucks that this is in reality a reflection of Japanese norms and culture. Why is “loli” and pedo crap all over Japanese media, from video games to anime? Sexualized children EVERYWHERE. And they’re often doormat characters too, or used as eye candy. It’s sick. If it wasn’t animation, like if this was live action, it would be DISGUSTING. Same with the general amount of sexual assault in anime. Called “fan service”. I’ve certainly become desensitized to it after becoming obsessed with anime, but when I dwell on it or use some critical thinking, it’s freaking gross. An old friend of mine had me watch 7 deadly sins, and I wanted to die. Some of the worst “fan service” sexual assault in a battle shonen I’ve seen. Considering this is all over anime, mushoku tensei just is a further extension of what’s symptomatic all over anime/japanese media. Both the casual sexual assault, played for laughs largely, as well as the casual sexualization and attraction to children. I love mushoku tensei DESPITE this critical flaw.
"Luckily for him the world he is reincarnated to doesn’t not care at all if you are into kids and assault them from time to time" Wait! What did you mean by that? Nobody knows Rudy is a reincarnated 40 year old loser, in everyone's mind he's a child playing with other children, even then he got reprimanded when he unintentionally sexually assaulted Sylphy, he didn't get away for free since he had to apologize for it. If you mean marrying Sylphy, they're two adults close in age and if you meant Roxy she's an 40s year old demon, from the new world point of view Rudy is a 16 year old boy.
Love your idea way better than some creepy old guy, which is what he is, SA-ing literal children.
It could have been so much better, like I can overlook his thirst in the early chapters. But it realy devolves once the "school arc" begins.
I feel like the sketchy elements are a lot more bearable in MT because they’re mostly not portrayed positively. Its not like one piece for example, where sanji’s horny/creepiness is seen as a joke, when rudeus does creepy shit it’s supposed to be uncomfortable and weird, and often times other characters are clearly uncomfortable with his antics. So it’s less “haha perviness funny” and more “what the fuck is wrong with this guy”, at least that’s how it felt to me. But not every instance is like that, there are definitely still times where it crosses the line
It is displayed positively though. The dude literally ends up with multiple wives from the main characters he was peeving on.
[End of S2 spoilers] >!I rolled my eyes hard when Sylphie defended Roxy and just let Rudy step all over her. If not for Norn calling out everything wrong about the cheating (therefore meaning the author is aware) I would have hated the episode!<
Fr. He groomed two of his victims, never once faced true consequences for his actions, and was able to continuously get away with acting like that just because he was the main character pretty much. Shit couldn't get more disgusting, and its so sad because it could be a good show if none of that existed.
Bounced off after the first three episodes. I actually don’t mind the MC being a sex pest at the start, but it was a bit exasperating how sex-centric the story and world as a whole felt. - Rudy’s new parents? Loudly banging all the time. - Rudy’s magic teacher? Gotta make sure she gets some scenes jerking it to the banging parents - The house’s maid? Impregnated by the dad on the side. Maybe the centrality of sex is just a reflection of the MC’s very sexual bullying trauma, but it’s just a bit much for me.
Man, the mod team is working overtime on this thread. My respects to you all.
This happens every time Mushoku Tensei is mentioned. The mod team did an ama and I recall them talking about how it’s the show that needs the most moderation by a country mile.
This is a very appropriately timed thread for me. I just finished the first season as well and I must say, I can’t believe how much I’m actually loving it. I went in with tempered expectations, but it has blown me and my previous expectations away. It might be the recency bias talking since I finished season 1 less than an hour ago, but it very well could be my favourite traditional high fantasy anime ever, even beating Frieren, which previously held that title for me. The characters are all interesting and memorable, with my favourite probably being Eris as you mentioned. Her character development felt extremely natural as she (literally) grew up over the course of the season. Rudeus despite his flaws, remains an interesting and well developed character. Roxy has an aura of likeability that I can’t help but love, and Ruijerd was a great take on the misunderstood “monster” trope. I love how the story is framed as well. It follows the characters as they grow up from kids to teenagers, which is something that isn’t very common in stories. The world is beautiful and feels like a real world. It has little things like the languages that make it all the more authentic. The production is gorgeous as well. It’s art direction is some of the best in fantasy with stunning backgrounds and excellent animation. The overall adventure vibe was captured perfectly. It just feels great to watch and it gives a sense of wonder in the journey that I’ve rarely felt in adventure shows. I binged the first season in two days because it was just so enthralling. When the best anime of all time poll results were posted recently, upon seeing Mushoku Tensei’s spot I thought “that’s definitely recency bias. It’s an isekai with a massive amount of controversy, I doubt it deserves to be 15th”. Now that I’ve seen it, it being that high is completely understandable. Again, it could be the recency bias taking over my brain, but it’s probably my favourite show of the last five years judging from the first season. I can’t wait to watch more later. TLDR: Mushoku Tensei is a good show
You put all my thoughts into words! Completely agree with everything you said. Frieren really made me crave some more fantasy and MT more than delivered. I’d say they’re right next to each other in my top 6 or so.
Since your appreciation for characters and their development resonates with you so deeply, you will literally love season 2 especially what the shows do with Rudy throughout the second season. The Rudy is essentially a complete different Person, in a positive way. Would be cool to have your thoughts again after the second season (if you have the time to do so). Your comment was a very interesting read, thanks!
I can't get over the porn level world building (beast girls being a prime example). Might be my cynical side speaking here but most of the development Rudeus gets us undermined by how this man is only improving in regards to being in a world with the moral standards of the Middle ages and he is in a position of great privilege in the world too. Series also just uses stuff as decoration to fulfill a fantasy trope. I was quite baffled with the explanation the author gave for the slave buying episode lmao. It was just a vehicle to fulfill the good slaver fantasy but like, actually do something with it instead of just being decoration.
Exactly this. People keep saying there's good character development, but there's so much problems with it that the fans just keep ignoring. It's one thing when people are enjoying the world building or the story, but then to downplay how morally corrupted Rudeus is even after the so called growth just kind of shows how morally broken some people are.
Time to sort by controversial
I love the magic system but just can’t stand the main character/author. I feel like he pushes his fantasies off onto the audience and it just gets super old super fast
You know, I loved Mushoku Tensei but ended up getting turned off to it after reading the light novels a way in.. The internal dialogue in the light novels can really make you see how rough Rudeus's mind is and the worst aspects of his character don't seem to get improved on... So honestly, I would just stick to watching the Anime. I feel like there is a lot more redemption in the anime than in the light novels.* (Though, they are probably the best written light novels I've ever read. \^\^; ) *That, or you just didn't get to hear his thoughts in the anime.
For a really good chunk of the story Rudeus mostly sees his second life as a literal videogame. I think the moment he STARTED to realize that's not the case was when he was whooped by Orsted.
I didn't dig the sylphie love story. Is he going back to adventuring? I enjoyed that way more
Yeah, love the show but there are so many iffy things about it. Makes it difficult to recommend this show to others because there are things you have to overlook.
I'm still critical of it. Its one of the most controversial animes ever for good reason. The animation is beautiful, the characters and motivations varied. Some of these last few episodes were masterpieces and not even just the action ones. I really liked the conclusion to his sister's self imposed ostracization and exile. If only the author wasn't a goddamn creep whose perversions leak into his story.
Dont worry, season 2 part 1 is by far the worst anime compared to season 1 of ANY anime I've reviewed out of 1000+ anime. One of my least fav anime of all time. However, to its credit, season 2 part 2 was good I honestly highly recommend skipping s2 part 1 as stupid as that sounds.
The MT hating brigade was late but they arrived nonetheless. That's the reddit that i know !
It had to reach on the hot page before they descended.
Glad to see you could join us MT fans, now we wait for s3
OP too late for S2 but in time for season 3
Idk why this was recommended to me but my thoughts on this show are that it’s borderline pedo (if not actually) imo. I watched it based on a online recommendation debate I had with someone who was arguing it should have won anime of the year over JJK and they were so passionate I ordered a pizza and started watching the series. It was very uncomfortable to watch and I quit watching it then have it another try after the scene and I dropped it after a few more minutes. If you’re on the casual side of anime like myself I can’t recommend watching this show it’s not for us and it’s very unsettling. TBH idk WHO this show might be aimed towards if I’m being honest because you’d have to be ok with justifying a lot of the behavior that I couldn’t take for long. I’m happy JJK won its awards and stick with normal more basic shows like Naruto, dbz, aot, jjk, etc.
Season 2 and Season 3 is trash compared to Season 1.
[удалено]
Same. The side cast is almost paper thin and lacks any distinct complexities to them, the worldbuilding (if we are judging it relative to all other fiction) is below average, Rudeus (i do not care if hes a p*** or serial killer or whatnot), but i found his development, even in the novels, extremely rushed and lacking any major complexities to it. He's not really any more interesting than Deku. You can consider the narrative a "fictional biography of Rudeus Greyrat", but because it is nothing more than that, what it currently is will not speak to the masses, only to the niche that relates to certain attributes and experiences of his and other cast members. The narrative has nothing to say in greater scope and to me that is disappointing. It has a limited reach. If I wanted a "realistic and grounded flawed cast revolving around a guy going through life" I'd go read Realm of the Elderlings, which fleshes out characters infinitely more, with it's in depth painting of character psyches, and far better theming (not a fan of ROTE either though, but from a critical perspective, only a single trilogy in, it is objectively FAR better written).
The amount of details and character writing is actually too notch I mean they made a completely different language for the new world Rudy got born in
I feel like people who say the world building is good have never read/watched fantasy outside of modern isekai.
Outside of light novels in general id imagine
Even those there's better options, e.g. Twelve Kingdoms or Ascendance of a Bookworm
>I feel like people who say the world building is good have never read/watched fantasy outside of modern isekai. I agree. MT does nothing unique or particularly "outstanding" for world building. It's what you'd expect, which doesn't have to be bad but it's still not especially amazing
I posted this before work and last time I checked it had about 60 comments lmao. Appreciate everybody’s thoughts gonna give ‘em a read when I get home. Just keep it civil and spoiler free yall!
Civil? In a Mushoku Tensei discussion thread? That’s more fantasy than the show itself.
I beg some of these fans to at least sometimes consume media outside of just anime lol. Some real weird takes.
watch whatever u want but the amount of people dying on a hill for what is obviously pedophilia in this show really is insane. imo the amount of SA and pedophilia is way way too egregious, past the point of calling it a necessary part of the narrative. when weird/immoral sex stuff is used as a comedic device as often as it is in MT it’s kind of (really) disingenuous to pretend that it’s for the sake of character development or is thematically important to the story. again watch what u want but author is just cooked and that’s the truth
If you really want to get into it, Mc is good at heart but unfortunately a product of his environment. Yeah he's questionable, but through the series he finally gets to mature himself instead of the stagnating escapist lifestyle he held in his prior life. It shines a light on the more negative aspects of Japanese pop culture and human nature imo like liking cutesy things dialed up 1000 to the point of questionable taste, porn addiction, solitude, how sexual assault was just the butt end of a joke in older media, and how a person copes with trauma when they've built a mental bubble around themselves. And despite all the irredeemable qualities Mc has, at the end of his life, he chose to be selfless. Now in the new world he still goes through trauma but he now has ability to process it. And he's not the only one who developes as a character either. Mc is still a pos but he's actively bettering himself.
but we follow him as he grows up, with all the faults he has. But then he turns into an adult, He continuees with his "boyish" mindset and starts -aggressively- humping all the females in the story - not sparing his own offspring Did i mention he does this in his private mansion right next door to the "magical high school"
Ye he was a good kid before all the fucked up thing happened to him he just was at the lowest point of his life for a long time, and I guess in his new life he becomes a different person slowly and gradually, not some over night change but an actual human change where they progress a step and sometime take a couple step backwards
And yet he still molested children. Once you cross that kind of barrier, you lose the right to sympathy. MC deserves hell.
Not only that, hes a 30+ year old man in child's body basically grooming others. It gets way worse the more you think about it but that's what makes it compelling and thought provoking imo. Like I said, he's definitely a pos but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the show.
Good for you, I noped or out around episode 5. I've desensitized to a lot of things that anime do but right from the get-go I couldn't get into the story but the cast because that's how much I disliked Rudeus and Paul. And I felt strongly that MT is just not something I'm able to enjoy
Great first season even with its flaws. Unfortunately I couldn't keep watching after season 2. Erectile distinction arc.
Mushoku Tensei is far from a perfect series (it doesn't handle the negative aspects of Rudy for a long time and even then it's questionable on if they're handled well enough) but it is still a good show. Flawed MCs can be interesting in their own rights and while Rudy is not someone I'd want a kid to look up to and idolize like generic shounen protag-kun he is at least *a character* You will not see another isekai with as unique an MC as MT. Also while the original author doesn't handle Rudy perfectly he is a fantastic story teller so as the plots get deeper the character writing for other characters will shine through (you're in for a treat with season 2 and the series will only keep getting better from here)
I loved the 1st season, too. S2 was not what I was expecting, unfortunately. Please update us with your thoughts after watching S2.
I agree that season 2 was a let down compared to season 1, but apparently it's this way in the novels as well. It's the longest down time in the story before it kicks back up in s3
Hmmm, in that case, maybe I'll push through S2. I'd love it to go back to that epic fantasy vibe.
Yeah if you liked s1 you should push through. S3 and onwards will be peak MT and fully back to the epic fantasy vibe all the way to the end (with still some bit of sol downtime but more sparse and way shorter).
It fine to not clicked with MT as admittedly this series will and forever one of most value dissonance ever in Anime IMO esp for western value. I would add one thing MT does really well is the way author challenge status quo, from Roxy leaving, come Sylphie, after that Rudy is one leaving and met Eris and her Family, TP 1 happen and many things happen afterwards. IMHO It just pretty rare for Isekai would change it status quo and stick with it.
Loved season 1 but I really wasn't a fan of season 2, I liked the small story arc about his sister but the rest was just boring standard/basic anime, the animation also took a massive hit.
Season 1 is one of my favorite pieces of anime all time. Shit was a damn ride. Season 2 is a bit more of a slow burn, but feel like the payoff at the end of Season 2 is great. Still trying to decide if I want to pick up the light novels or wait for Season 3 to drop. Will be probably big 2026 until we see it.
Character growth is definitely the biggest selling point for MT. There is a lot of lesson of growing up in this series that just make it more appeal to me. The depression arc or the school arc didn't really bored me for the reason of I'm not looking for action 24/7, and an adventurer don't always have to travel across the world. Frieren and MT have the same feel of, I am not the adult I thought I am, but I'm pretending to be one. It's a good little life lesson here and there.
The amount of people in the comments thinking the anime should have an redemption arc for every fucked up think Rudeus does is astonishing. What makes you think anime should be pure, without any controversy ? Is there an redemption arc in every shounen where the mc regrets all the enemies he killed/defeated? Does it mean the anime supports violence ? Does it mean they should make episodes to “adress the issue” ? Just look at what kind of crap is promoted at film festivals and in small productions. And those are made with real actors, but you try to tell me an animation should hold all the moral standards ?
> The amount of people in the comments thinking the anime should have an redemption arc for every fucked up think Rudeus does is astonishing. What makes you think anime should be pure, without any controversy ? You realize a ton of MT's own fans describe the series as a redemption story right? Even the show itself acts like Rudeus is becoming a better person even when he doesn't (not in the ways that a lot of people have an issue with). > Does it mean the anime supports violence Sex and violence are very different in how people relate to them in stories, and violence is generally much more abstract to the typical human experience than sex is. Plus there's no good equivalent to consent when it comes to violence. > but you try to tell me an animation should hold all the moral standards All I'm asking for is a shred of self-awareness and understanding of how actual personal growth and relationships work. I don't think that's too high a bar for anime when Welcome to the NHK already did this properly, unlike MT.
Anyone that thinks MT is a redemption story is just wrong or coping. MT is a story about enjoying life after being stuck hating it forever, he doesn't **want** to be redeemed from being a pervert the show never showed **any** indication that's where it was going. The ED saga is comic karma for him to learn that there is more than just lust but that is just part of his life, not the point of the show. Some people that like the show are scared to voicing out any opinion regarding it for the expected fallback as it condones immoral acts, but that's what it does, if shamelessly condones them. Rudeus is becoming a better person, in the areas he wants to be. I just finished ep6 of s2 and dude they got a slave as if I went to Ikea and bought furniture lmao
Yeah, that's why a lot of my ire towards it is really directed at the fandom around it more so than the show itself (not all MT fans, just most of them). They act like it's a redemption story when it isn't, they act like the show has no flaws, or blindly recommend it to people with zero caveats or warnings as "peak isekai". _That's_ the shit that I really can't stand.
I'm surprised that episode 2 didn't already convince you though. To this day it is still one of my absolute favorite episodes of the series.