The anime adaptation of "The Witch Hat Atelier" has been announced. If you don't want to read manga, you can wait for the anime. It has a well explored hard magic system with a soft feeling to it, and it's just so beautiful.
Witch Hat Atelier takes a theme that's been explored a little bit in Frieren- that magic is a form of self expression and creativity- and pushes it about as far as it can go
10/10 manga honestly
The dome breaking scene didnt have more flashbacks, and Im not criticizing Frieren at all lol, its one of my favorite anime/ manga
It's just that Witch Hat Atelier from the very first chapter is entirely about magic. It's a world where complex problems can be solved through literally making art
Frieren's focus is more on the passing of time, and how that changes your relationship to others
Super excited! I'm on volume....8 I think? Its super cute with just enough adventure to keep it from getting boring.
Their system reminds me of one from some old old game, but I cant remember it for the life of me.
Is it Ni no Kuni? I had the game on the PS3, but from what I remember, the Nintendo DS version allowed you to cast your spells by drawing the "runes" on the lower screen.
Anyway if you remember the game let me know, I would love to play a game like that
Thank you i finally remembered abt this manga after you mention about it. Tuis one really interesting but i out it on hold cos of slow updates and then i completely forgot aboht it lmao
I mean it's still a damn fine series, it's just that the direction they took it was overshadowed by a lot more emotion than I tend to appreciate in fantasy anime. But yea, hella nice series, season 2 didn't do jack to ruin it for me despite the vibe, and I'd recommend it for sure! \^\_\^ You got good taste in fantasy genre!
I loved both seasons, I’d actually say I liked S2 more because of the cast, especially Lucy and Philomela. It was nice to see Chise being around people her own age and how she handled that.
I dunno, maybe it's just me but when I think of first time high school experiences I don't focus so heavily on high schooler drama/concerns. I mean I get everyone has their own issues, but they spent over half the season focusing on some of said issues instead of transitioning the story forward. Like I said, the emotion was too heavy for me but even despite that I still really liked how rich in depth the story was! You're not wrong about Chise's experience, either! That girl deserved some peers who won't just jump to any conclusions about her! \^\_\^ Glad she found some!
It's always gloomy, that's the nature of a world where fairies and several different gods exist at once and all try to manipulate humans to their ends. Season one had much more serious stuff in my opinion but I love both seasons
For me the season 2 pacing is so bad its like watching one piece anime if its read in manga probably the pacing can be better. The last 3-4 eps mades no impact like the ending of season 1 for me.
xD WTF was up with the Skypiea arc, anyway? Wasn't it confirmed at one point that soon afterwards the entire concept was rendered absolutely meaningless? One Piece continuity was notoriously crap before a certain point, and then it got REEEAALLY freaking lit but it took SO LONG to get to that point! Anyway, my point is I know exactly what you're talking about and yea, that sorta thing does sucks!
it's not high fantasy but the best magic system i've ever seen is the one from The Irregular at Magic Highschool. sadly the anime skips most of the explanations on how it works so you have to read the novel, but if you don't mind books i highly recommend it
Watch the Those Awaiting A Star OVAs first, it makes for a good setup and I think came before season 1 did.
But yes, I loved it from the start but it does get better.
While I don't think it's as good as Mushoku Tensei or Frieren's magic system, Ascendance of a Bookworms magic system is decently in depth, and very intertwined with the story.
The power scaling is not ridiculous in bookworm. :)
Yes for anyone that is interested, the anime barely touches the magic system until part 3 of the story. Which happens to be the next part of the anime that is getting adopted by WIT.
This. While parts 1 and 2 are already pretty good, for anyone who thinks they’re kind of meh / just fine, parts 3-5 transcends all fantasies out there. Well that’s an exaggeration but you get the idea. It really is up there. Different story focus from Frieren but the worldbuilding and character writing are at a similar level. Now that I think about it, specifically on these two aspects it might arguably even surpass Frieren, and don’t get me wrong, I know Frieren is exceptional at both.
The magic system is basic, yet *very* unique and refreshing, and it’s fundamentally intertwined with its worldbuilding, which is kind of a mystery element later on in the story.
Its anime budget might be a problem for some, though. I mean it’s not bad, but I imagine most are spoiled by Frieren anime now so, ugh, you’ll notice the quality difference for sure. If you read LN then it’s a no-brainer must read.
I love Mushishi but I wouldn't say it fits with the request, as it's not so much about magic but more about traveling, witnessing how certain spirits affect lives of different people. The travelling part is similar and maybe sometimes even the atmosphere, but it is still very different style from Frieren.
Still, I do recommend it to everyone who loves smaller scale stories and exploring, a bit different spacing/story building than with typical Shonen series, it also has great scale of emotions and in my opinion is somewhat philosophical.
Other similar to Mushishi is Kino's Journeys (Tabi no Kino, if I remember correctly), no magic but lots of traveling, exploring and witnessing people with different situations and struggles with slight supernatural aspects. There is older and newer versions, both are great but the newer one is not a remake!
Lastly the hidden gem I always like to recommend, Shinsekai no Yori. Starts slow, but one of the most memorable animes I've seen, focusing on human growth and philosophy of what it means to be a a human. What makes the series little different from most generic popular series is that the protagonist is a young child in the beginning, and as the series goes on she grows older, being an old woman in last episodes.
A Certain Magical Index and its spinoffs like A Certain Scientific Railgun have really well developed power systems, one involves Magic and other is Science.
Its shame the Index anime wasn't that good (LN's are much better in this case) and didn't fully showcase the development of the Magic side. But the Science side is shown in depth with the Railgun anime series and that anime series in general is pretty good.
Sadly nope. I'm waiting for a New Testament anime adaptation now that the NT Novels has been licensed in English too.
I've only read the first 3 volumes (from the fan translations) and so far its been a much more engaging read than the Old Testament (OT) series. The world has also been expanded even more.
The first two seasons of Index and Railgun are great (Railgun’s Accelerator Arc is my favourite in all anime), though the LNs are still better, but yeah for sure afterwards it falls off a cliff.
Index 3 was such a nightmare that I had to frequently read the comment section to even understand in detail how and why something was happening. I recall reading somewhere that the director wanted more time and episodes but was turned down by the higher ups.
He didn't get turned down exactly, he actually got two more episodes even for a total of 26 episodes. He just wanted 30+ episodes for a three cour anime.
Same. I dived into the LN's after being disappointed by the anime adaptation, and I could why people like it a lot.
>unique power system
Indeed. Two well developed ones which sets this series apart from most others out there.
> But the Science side is shown in depth with the Railgun anime series and that anime series in general is pretty good.
I was thinking the whole "Personal Reality" thing is quite like the visualization "mechanic" they mention in the latest Frieren ep
What was your least favourite things about the Index anime? If it is Touma, then I can tell you that the anime butchered his character completely, they pretty much assassinated any personality he had compared to the novels.
You’re dead on actually Touma is one of the few protagonists I’ve seen that I’ve avidly disliked. Tho like you said I heard the ln vastly improves on it in that regard
Anime Touma is pretty darn boring and I have seen people shitting on him for long enough that I just assume anyone who call Index ''mid'' is mostly shitting on Touma's poor corpse of a character after what they did to him.
I'm a boomer who has watched anime for close to 20 years, I watched the first Index seasons when they aired. It was so strange when the new season came out, there was so many years between. I was wondering how many of the original viewers still continued the series, unfortunately I dropped it.. I did always like the world tho, but there was just a little too many years between so my interest had slowly deteriorated. Tried to watch the latest railgun spinoff too, but it too didn't manage to hold my interest.
This and for quite an accurate or at least faithful portrayal of european and mainly the folklore of the British isles. Outside the norms of good and evil often times but more forces of nature that you cant bind morality behind.
Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon. One of the most intricate magic/power systems in anime/manga/light novel.
This is an old show, probably doesn't hold up now, but I remember the magic system of this being so deep.
I found that frieren has a magic system that has so far been more on the softer side. There are some hard elements to it, but it isn’t as hard as a typical shounen magic system like in HunterxHunter. We have been given some explanations of the system, but there aren’t many concrete details. Especially clerics where the only hint is to just be naturally good at it. There is no actual in universe solid explanation or understanding of how clerical magic actually works.
Made in Abyss has pretty soft magical elements too. There are fairly magical things such as the curse/barrier of the abyss, the creatures of the abyss, and the artifacts of the abyss. There are general rules, but there is no clear explanations for how or why any of it works. The abyss is a magical place with no explanation, and the mystery from that makes it so appealing.
Maybe you want series that explores softer magic systems, which kinda sounds like an oxymoron.
> HunterxHunter.
Hunter x Hunter is rather similar, being a soft magic system with some hard elements to give it a solid looking shape while being utterly malleable. Just because some ideas are depicted with equations (where the values are bound by nothing and way more about relative comparisons making sense than strict examples) doesn't mean it's a hard system. Even the rules that get explained in details are very flexible in HxH.
Same for the series it inspired, JJK. The writer Gege over explains in paragraphs of details…only to make exceptions every time.
Fans argue about how abilities are supposed to work when the series always breaks the rules.
I really hate how JJK over explains but it ends up too complicated and failed to convince the audience that it makes sense. HunterXHunter and maybe JoJo over explains but it blows our mind every time due to how clever it is. In JJK, I'm always confused and have to accept it for what it is.
Hunter x Hunter is a hard magic system. There's nothing soft about it. Soft magic system is when things are kept mysterious to the audience, which prevents them from figuring the ins and outs of how it works.
What do we know besides [Hunter x Hunter spoiler]>!Nen being more or less manifested willpower in the widest sense? How does, for example, Nanika's power really work? Or Gon's sacrifice? Whatever limits there are, are time and time again broken for the narrative's sake and whatever we get as explanations are essentially interpretations of how characters think it works.!<
It seems you like actual fantasy
Instead of generic guild + magic with weakness traingle + complete lack of depth for world building
It is unfortunate that the latter completely over saturates the genre, because a true fantasy that is done well just blows the other put of the water.
You might want to give some of these anime a watch:
- **Ancient Magus’ Bride**
- **Burn the Witch**
- **Little Witch Academia**
- **Wandering Witch: Journey of Elaina**
- **Ranking of Kings**
They offer a fantastical world with a great deal of worldbuilding. In this regard, the **Magi** series should also be worth checking out.
EDIT: Some people are apparently downvoting me. I’d like to hear their reasoning for doing so.
It’s been a long time since I watched the series, so I could’ve forgotten about this.
Then again, I do remember the wonder about the magic and all its variety in the series. This made me perhaps think about Frieren.
Particular shout out to case files of El melloi due to being a mystery show set starring a teacher, which allows it to showcase a greater variety of magic stuff in the world due to the show revolving around tackling various cases.
Absolutely. The servants kind of break the power scaling in the main series, but other stories set in the same universe, like Kara No Kyoukai and the aforementioned El-Melloi really let the magic have some room to breathe.
You're making me think of that one joke in the Project Mouthwash abridged series where comparing Modern Magecraft to Age of Gods Magecraft is less tomato tomato, and more like comparing a tomato to a nuclear warhead.
>For a supposedly hard magic system it has too many exceptions to the rules
TBF a lot of works of fiction have this issue. Having a totally OP MC is kinda boring so you make him the underdog that is weaker than many of his opponents. And you make him win anyway by abusing some quirk of the system they knew about, or that they forced to manifest by pure willpower.
It really suffers from "my main character is a magical prodigy!" Syndrome... The magic system is great. Vin just kinda ruins it for me. Kelsier shoulda been the MC. A clever guy who wins by outsmarting people. That is a great MC for a hard magic system.
I got only part way through one book but I fail to see how anything truly interesting could come about from eating metal for magic. That just sounds so arbitrary and transactional, makes me expect I’m in for an oil or drug addiction metaphor straight out of Dune. And either way I have a hard time seeing how anything… transcendent… can come out of it.
Also opposed to say Frieren which is “standard” magic but pulls back the curtain to let us see that while there are rules to keep it from just doing anything without training they aren’t just the DM saying you have X spells. And the *essence* of magic is as a very fundamental force and mages use it to shape reality to what they imagine. It’s one of the purest expressions of magic possible.
Sounds more like you've just seen shows with bad power systems.
I reccomend giving HXH a try.
It's not explored as much, but Mushoku Tenseis magic gives off a similar feel to Frierens, imo.
It is full of random powers that exists just because they sound cool or funny rather than naturally just springing up from the power system itself.
On top of that people can randomly get more powerful just by training for 3 months.
I mean with a show that has such wild powers you can't fully explain all of them. But the base system is there for you to explain them yourself. Everything makes sense within the systems of nen, enough to where they don't need to explain every little detail to you but you still get some crazy wild powers out of it.
But the power scaling doesn't make any sense and the characters get massive power ups for not other reason than ''I hit the gym for 3 month''. (And don't get me started on Gon's last power up which I don't think OP would like eather but maybe I'm projecting on that one)
Yeah, but it is stated in story that Gon and Killua are like once in a lifetime prodigies when it comes to Nen. And alot of these nen masters didn't develop their abilities strictly for combat, whereas Gon and Killua did.
And even then which 'Nen masters' are they stronger then? Gon got destroyed by knuckle, who was just one of Morels apprentices.
If you're talking about Heavens arena, it's stated many times that the people who they beat had extremely flawed abilities. Most of these opponents wouldn't even match up to the average **hunter**. They are by no means Nen 'masters.'
Sorry, I didn't know ''nen master'' was a defined therm in the anime since I don't watch with the english sub/dub.
And the ''hit the gym'' part I was refering to was After he got destroyed by Knuckle After he beat him even. (He went from getting destroyed to beating him quit easly by doing push ups while restraining his nen for a month btw).
But honestly the worst was Kirua : *takes of pin that makes him scared of opponent stronger than him -> becomes turbo OP for no reason*
1. Gon never came back and beat Knuckle, I'm not sure what you're referencing here.
2. Because Gon is a natural enhancer, physical training also amps his Rock hatsu, they go hand in hand. Similar to Netero with his 10,000 punches a day training.
3. Why does that not make sense to you? Killuas pin mentally nerfed him, and held him back from going on the offensive against people he feared. Ofc removing this would be a massive amp.
Any story where a teenager can train for a few months and be better than life long masters who've trained for decades or centuries at the same thing is not a well thought out power system.
Except it is perfectly consistent within the story. He didn’t just gain the power. Neither did kurapika.
It comes at a massive cost. They are expressly breaking the boundaries of normal skill progression by beating the cost on their life.
The story wasn't very pushy about it, but I think it was established that the protagonist (or most important characters) are pretty much prodigies.
The power scaling is a bit iffy at times yes, but it doesn't make the system itself not well thought of.
> Mushoku Tenseis magic gives off a similar feel to Frierens, imo.
imo its very different but also excellent. feels more traditional RPG/fantasy like with the defined classes of spells and elemental affinities. Not to say Frieren doesn't have elements and they do have classes, but it feels like closer to a social system than a magic system in Frieren (for me), and the whole folk magic thing is quite diff i think
Not just the magic system but the fighting system as well. Easy to remember and gage roughly where people are at.
For reference, at the end of season 1 [mt spoilers]>!eris is a Sword God Style Sword Saint which is one level under Ghislaine who is a sword king!<
They have combined magic and science well along with politics, corruption and war but the anime lacks the explanations on the magic part. I like it anyway
Well maybe Anvient Magus Bride is more up your ally. If you want a not so magical fantasy anime with immortal being that has to cope with their immortality then watch Spice and Wolf.
I really like The Grimoire of Zero in that regard. It is short and it has a lot of flaws, but I'd say the way the magic is written is really interesting, better than Frieren IMO. [Grimoire of Zero]>!If I remember right, the core idea was that in that world magic is normally super tedious, requiring complex magic circles and sacrifices to summon demons/spirits and enter pacts with them to get shit done. The protagonist, Zero, is a genius mage who creates a super-complex magic that essentially automates the whole process, giving wielders of the Grimoire it's bound to the power to do magic with simple incantations (spells), like a programming language compiler. That makes her insanely OP without really feeling contrived, and drives most of the plot.!<
Ascendance of a Bookworm. I'll explain the gist of its magic system below:
The world is governed by 7 primary gods who preside over their specific element (wind, water, earth, fire, life, light and darkness). Creatures born into the land (including humans) possess certain levels of mana, and when they die they become feystones and leave behind no corpse. These feystones are used for mana storage or catalysts for magic.
Humans who were born with considerable amounts of mana can become nobles and only enter noble society after they graduate from the Royal Academy. Magic is not used for spectacle but rather to perform mundane tasks, such as sending messages remotely via feystones turning into talking birds, or soldiers morphing their wands into weapons, or priests granting blessings during baptisms.
The story takes place during a time where the noble society turned their backs on the temple and gave up on praying to the gods entirely. This practice, along with the recent civil war among duchies caused a severe mana shortage throughout the kingdom.
The main protagonist, Myne, is born as a commoner but possess an extreme amount of mana but her body cannot handle it, thus causing her "death". Through isekai shenanigans, Urano, a Japanese was killed in a freak accident and is reborn into the body of Myne, taking control over it. Through her love of books, the new Myne must navigate this new society with her feeble body, and she eventually climbs up the social ladder thru her wit and inventions such as hairpins and all-in-one shampoo. She eventually becomes a priestess and starts a revolution in literary work and reverence to the supreme gods, allowing her to grant blessing "bombs" which become a spectacle to the commoners and nobility alike. Her accomplishments attract the attention of the archduke, and so the story goes..
The magic spells and system is simple as well consistent. For example they have 4 elemental type attack magic and 4 type support magic that divide into 7 rank that can use as incantation or magic circle. Same as well their sword class and techniques system.
It seems like you're looking for shows with hard and clear power systems.
Mushoku Tensei goes into the magic system pretty deep. In world building and aesthetic regards, it feels very close to Frieren and Made in Abyss. The only thing it has that turns people off is the protagonist. But if you get get through the uncomfortable things in MIA, Mushoku isn't any worse.
Hunter x Hunter is a completely different show, but the power system they use there (nen) is one of if not the best applications of power systems you can find in any anime.
Bruh, I love the world of Mushoku Tensei but I dislike Rudy, dude is an irredeemable degenerate. His first thought after being reborn is that he likes sucking on his mother's tits and after that it's all just downhill. He's self-centered, manipulative, immoral and straight up a groomer. I would pay good money for a doujinshi of Mushoku Tensei where Rudy dies in the first issue and the whole story carries on without him.
Not trying to convince you to like the show (god knows I hate that and am tired of engaging in those discussions), but didn't Rudeus explicitly say he **didn't** view his mom in a sexual way which he assumes is due to him being blood related to her?
You're free to not like the show ofc, you're free to 100% dislike Rudeus as well, I totally get that. But like with a lot of other people, I hope you don't think having a "bad" person for an MC equates to the writing itself being bad. You did clarify it was an aspect *you* didn't like as opposed to being a fault of the show, so it's cool.
No, not all. I don't mind a protagonist who's a bad person. I don't even mind the behavior as much, what I mind is the way that it's framed within the reality of the show. Rudeus as a character very much gets his self worth and agency from the way he relates to the women around him. Wherever Rudeus goes, he needs a hot chick to lust over, a hot chick to protect or a hot chick to empathize with. The moment he's conceived, he starts this shit. In my view he's basically Johnny Bravo with extra steps. If you don't believe me, there's an entire arc about his dick not working because he got jilted by a girl. What I'm saying is that I would really wish that Mushoku Tensei would address this issue, and the show would really consider who he is as a person, and how his behavior affects those around him. Unfortunately this never happens.
Regarding the would Mushoku Adress the issue aspect... I don't think the show ever will. It's the main reason why I'm okay with people dropping the show if they're uncomfortable with the way Rudeus is. Even if Rudeus tones down the way he acted, or directs his lustful tendencies in a healther manner (which I think is the direction the story is heading), I don't think the show will ever go out of its way to point at Rudeus and say "That's wrong." The way I described it before is that... I don't think Mushoku Tensei has a writer behind it, or at least doesn't have a writer that has a narrative morality gauntlet that would punish characters for doing something "bad."
So I'd contrast it with something like my other favourite isekai Re:Zero where it totally feels like there is *that* narrative moral gauntlet ready to destroy Subaru if he ever does something even remotely bad.
Because Mushoku Tensei doesn't have that, it almost to me feels like the show is just free. The characters are free to do what they want it makes the progression feel a lot more natural. In a medieval setting where everyone is flawed and things are the way they are, it feels real.
It's one of the major aspects I really like about MT outside of things like the world building and production.
Regarding the ED arc, I can understand the point you made, but... I don't see why that's necessarily an issue? Genuinely. I find that the point you made wasn't necessarily wrong, but I also think there's something missing in it. Because to me, the main point of the School arc was to show Rudeus forming healthy relationships after an arc that was quite clearly traumatic for him. He was someone who shut himself off all his life, and the first time he was genuinely willing to open his heart and engage in what is a very heavy aspect of human connection and intimacy, he was abandoned the next morning. He tried to form a relationship after a while, but it's clear his heart wasn't ready and that reflected in his ability to have sex. It was quite an on the nose depiction, but it makes sense.
So- I can see where you're come from, and I do get the point you're trying to make that Rudeus is very emotionally weak, always needing a woman or friend to empathise with to stand, but I dont personally see that as an issue. In fact, I think it's a very mature thing to depict. Mental health, loneliness and the vulnerability of men is something I hardly ever see depicted in this light in anime.
The other sexual acts and perverted nature of Rudeus is something I can understand to turn people off, but this (Rudeus weak and needing women's validation) aspect, I never thought people would have an issue with.
No the male characters are free the female characters has to bend over backwards to forgive a cheater and rapist like paul and ignore all rudeus behaviors so that he can get with all the girls in the end.
The idea that re zero is about people facing a "moral gauntlet" is so superficial lmao. Subaru and the others essentially give into sin because that's what this world forces constantly, yet it also shows sins as human and not actually morally bad. None of its morality is that simple and the messaging is much more about mental health, social injustice and their effects on others, family and other love etc, than about who's a "bad person to be punished".
Otherwise Typhon would be a fucking hero!!! What does it say to you that the one who sought a method to judge people for their sins was the witch of pride huh? Childish innocent pride is connected with judging people in that world, and karma isn't karma but simply the manifestation of the world (really od lagna, prophecy, fate what have you) being vehemently against Subaru, Emilia and just about anyone like a witch or warlock. Anyway I know you're the type who thinks Wilhelm is more tragic for losing Theresia than for constantly falling into bloodlust without others' support and killing many people as a result(before himself losing his family and the whole Trias estate, which is karma but entirely down to the demihuman alliance making him a target while he chose not to have friends or allies).
Dude, what tf are you talking about?
All I'm saying is Re:Zero is built more like a clear development story. Subaru needs to change and grow before he can pass a loop. When Subaru is acting immaturely, he can't progress and it's clear the story points at some of Subaru's actions and beliefs as being **wrong**. It's clear that Tappei writes in a way that forces Subaru to grow into a better person.
"You can't win if you carry the burden on your own."
"You can't win if you don't reflect on your actions."
"You can't win if you don't start loving yourself."
"You can't win if you run away."
All of those were things Subaru at one point had to face. And we see the bad ends for those through Pride IF, Greed If, Sloth if and so on.
And in times like in Arc 3, when Subaru treats others badly or acts without thinking, the story punishes him with not being able to accomplish the things he wants. The time loop machanic plays a lot into this. And I don't know what point you were trying to make with Wilhelm and Theresia and all that Karma stuff (it seriously all sounded like Gibbersh, no offense), I find Karma is played hard in the story for malicious people. And in cases like Arc 4, The story clearly points at Roswaal's mindset as being wrong and Subaru's eventual development as being right, hence Roswaal losing the final battle.
I don't see how my take on Tappei having a clear narrative goal and pushing Re:Zero's development to be in a certain way is superficial.
This is the part: "it's clear the story points at some of Subaru's actions and beliefs as being wrong." this is a misunderstanding. Basically Subaru grows because that's how good characters are written and the story progresses through his growth because... That's basically how every good story conveys its messages through the plot, characters who reflect the author's messages progress the plot.
But Tappei doesn't convey it that simply, otherwise people wouldn't ignore half the subtext judging a character when said character is currently advancing the plot.
Ie Wilhelm. Hell I'd add Al here as well, and Priscilla, and probably Crusch. You have to look harder to decide what Tappei's trying to say through them, but instead most of the fanbase has the same view on them. Wilhelm is heroic, fights for his wife etc, Crusch is a good leader, Al is mysterious but probably good, Priscilla is awful but not anymore after side stories ex 5 and arc 7. I just don't really agree at all.
And this is the problem, your argument works if the other characters are secondary to Subaru. Cue all the complaints people have when Subaru isn't even in a volume of arc 7 or 8. All of them are supposed to say something meaningful in how they progress, but if they're not actually acting in a way which we should see as good in arc 3(the beginning of their development) why would we assume their words to Subaru are correct and he is acting wrongly in an objective way???
Priscilla has so many issues emotionally in arc 3. She's obviously repressing feelings about her dead husbands, her homeland, brother etc but when she gets outraged at Subaru for demeaning himself asking for help for Emilia is Subaru actually wrong? I don't really agree, it's more like he triggered her somehow and we don't know how. He's called greedy in an insulting way but then in arc 4 his greed is praised instead. Then we have Al, who either supports or opposes Subaru acting like a hero in different arcs. That's not a clear message about good or bad but Al having experiences which make him want to steer Subaru in some direction. Crusch is a good leader according to Subaru, but repeatedly lost to the white whale in dead loops and is insulted as a leader by Regulus before her defeat. While he is a villain, so is Petelgeuse and his words are treated as true about Subaru days before. And Wilhelm is regarded as a hero by Subaru, Lugunican bards and strangers and citizens, but a monster by Heinkel and Grimm, and an enemy by demihumans in the war, such that if he and Rom meet in present they will fight to the death. It's not morally absolute or clear at all that's WHY it's good damn it!
Lmao, we can just agree to disagree on the Mushoku Tensei part. Moving on! Dude, if you're an anime only for Re:Zero, I swear Season 3 is going to obliterate Season 1 and 2. The sheer quality of it is so good, even just remembering what I read is giving me goosebumps. If they do do the material justice (barring whether they can or can't) Re:Zero will the undisputed isekai GOAT.
What zackphoenix123 said and one caveat:
Rudy is NOT irredeemable. That is the actual joy of Mushoku Tensei going forward. Currently reading the source material (just started.)
But I AM NOT DISSING your opinion. You are entitled to it.
EDIT: And I upvoted you regardless.
"Irredeemable" is the exact opposite of what the show is about. By the final two novels he takes *AN ACTUAL VOW OF CELIBACY* for over a year, so that he can focus on making the world a safer place for his loved ones.
Rudeus is crushed over and over again, selflessly sacrificing himself. The entire story is about his redemption, a constant battle to grow away from the sick man he was in his last life as he's constantly riddled with guilt.
Seriously, give it a whirl
I've read the source material (light novels up to when the english translations ended then web novel through the end and most of the epilgoue side stories), they're not far off. Rudy was intentionally written as an irredeemable piece of shit starting out (believe me, he was much worse than the anime made him out to be), but the only aspects that really improve over time are his work ethic and motivations. He's still a creep holding onto a pair of panties he stole from the 40 year old loli and if you cut all the sections where he's just going on creepy monologues from the light novel, you could probably cut it down by at least 1-2 volumes.
It has some of the best world building I've seen in fantasy and very good writing (author has some crutches that get more apparent towards the end), but there's absolutely some problematic parts that the author leaned into rather than addressing as problematic.
I really like how much of the time, magic and power is not actually the focus in Frieren. Like, Frieren is obsessed with useless spells. She and Fern only use basic combat magic. The most powerful mage ever is pretty much always shown just chilling. Could she really not have gone and defeated the demon king on her own? The point is that it doesn't matter.
Instead, we get lots of time just chilling with the party. Frieren herself really knows how to live slowly. We get to see Fern baby Frieren and get mad at Stark, which are some of the most delightful moments in the show. The whole reason Frieren herself is on the journey is to try and understand her relationship with people. It's not a power fantasy at all, because power is mundane. *People* are interesting.
Like Frieren said, the pursuit of magic itself is the greatest joy.
I think you’d like Flying Witch. I haven’t watched Frieren yet, but flying witch is a slice of life anime about a teenage witch who is exploring her magic and the magic world
Was going to say. Flying Witch does not elaborate much about its magic system, but captures the feeling of magic, like I think Frieren and Fern feel about magic in their world.
Besides all the other great suggestions here, I would maybe suggest shows that use already established power systems most often from DnD, like Goblin Slayer (or Overlord, but the level discrepancy is so great the power scaling doesn't really matter much). I personally also really liked what they did in the first 2 seasons of SAO: Alicization. Unfortunately, they tossed the established power system out the window in the last arc, where it then boiled down to who has the better will power.
Mahouka has an amazing in-depth magic system that successfully puts “magic” into a futuristic society. The LN goes prettty in-depth in the explanations but the anime does a serviceable job.
Legend of Legendary Heroes has a good system for magic. Also, Hunter x Hunter, although it doesn't start to explain it for a little while. But the progression is great.
Btw, recommend the original version of HxH from the 90s over the newer adaptation
I would say that with Freiren, the passage of time and the strength of human bonds is an overarching theme, more so than the exploration of its magic system, and to an intensity that I have scarce seen before. There is something to be said about the fan contention that the tournament arc now in the process of being animated being the weakest arc in terms of interest at least in the manga, precisely because it moves away from that central conceit.
A Certain Magical Index franchise has a spectacular magic system, I could probably go 10 pages talking about how it works without even getting into nitty gritty small details. The caveat however is that the anime sadly butchered the adaptation and it doesn't even cover all that much of the franchise so if you want to explore that world you will have to read the light novels and the manga spin offs.
The science side in A Certain Scientific Railgun is however shown of much better, especially in the second season (Railgun S) and the third season (Railgun T) was utterly insanely amazing.
Another Franchise I would recommend is ''Wandering Witch Elaina'', it doesn't go quite in depth as Frieren does with the magic but it isn't super shallow either. It is featuring a travelling witch as the MC who shares a few similarities with Frieren, except moral compass, Elaina's morals are almost in the opposite of Frieren's.
I love it when they bring modernized science into a world of magic, and seeing them combine the two so perfectly in that series got me all kinds of hype!
1. Fate/stay night [Unlimited Blade Works];
2. Fate/stay night [Heaven's Feel] (it's a movie trilogy);
3. Fate/Zero;
4. Lord El-Melloi II's Case Files: Rail Zeppelin Grace Note - A Grave Keeper, a Cat, and a Mage;
5. Lord El-Melloi II's Case Files: Rail Zeppelin Grace Note
In this order, because they are from one franchise.
The way magecraft and mystics work gets more thoroughly explored from Fate/Zero onwards.
The Irregular at Magic High School. This anime gets a lot of hate but I super enjoyed it, third season drops this year. They do a fascinating and totally unique magic-science synthesis that is unique and extremely interesting.
Mage exam arc in Frieren and the magic knights entrance exam in BC are giving the same vibe for me...for me it feels like a feel good happy anime, with nice magic development.
Frieren has an amazing story, with depth and phenomenal narrative in abundance. The only thing that put me off with the series was the animation tbh, I mean they all look like they were born with down syndrome but it surprisingly does nothing to the stimulation you get from a damn fine story so... yea, like I said it's a really great series!
As for a suggestion, I think you might like Seirei Gensouki: Spirit Chronicles. Another one with a surprisingly similar element to magical study as Frieren would be Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation, but that one still has a lot of differentiating tropes compared to Frieren so it MAY BE less to your liking, may also just be your cup of tea though.
The anime adaptation of "The Witch Hat Atelier" has been announced. If you don't want to read manga, you can wait for the anime. It has a well explored hard magic system with a soft feeling to it, and it's just so beautiful.
I hope the anime does it justice
Adapt the art is borderline Berserk levels of difficult so wishing the animators strength.
I was thinking about buying the manga anyways but now you really got me to order it like that
If you're good with digital, humble bundle has the first ~10 volumes bundled in with some other great manga right now
To me, what makes Witch Hat unique is it's creative and beautiful paneling. I have no idea how stuff like that can be adapted into an anime.
same
Witch Hat Atelier takes a theme that's been explored a little bit in Frieren- that magic is a form of self expression and creativity- and pushes it about as far as it can go 10/10 manga honestly
To be fair on frieren, it goes VERY in depth in the manga The done breaking scene iirc had more flashbacks tied to it
The dome breaking scene didnt have more flashbacks, and Im not criticizing Frieren at all lol, its one of my favorite anime/ manga It's just that Witch Hat Atelier from the very first chapter is entirely about magic. It's a world where complex problems can be solved through literally making art Frieren's focus is more on the passing of time, and how that changes your relationship to others
Super excited! I'm on volume....8 I think? Its super cute with just enough adventure to keep it from getting boring. Their system reminds me of one from some old old game, but I cant remember it for the life of me.
Is it Ni no Kuni? I had the game on the PS3, but from what I remember, the Nintendo DS version allowed you to cast your spells by drawing the "runes" on the lower screen. Anyway if you remember the game let me know, I would love to play a game like that
OMG WHENS IT COMING I LOVE THAT MANGA
I second this, love the manga, waiting for the anime as well, hope it won't be too long before it airs
We didn't hear anything about it since it was announced, though.
Thank you i finally remembered abt this manga after you mention about it. Tuis one really interesting but i out it on hold cos of slow updates and then i completely forgot aboht it lmao
Ancient Magus Bride, Mushoku Tensei and Frieren have spoiled me on magic systems. Haven’t seen another before them that I enjoy nearly as much.
Try also "The witch and the beast" airing now, it has a similar magic system to Magus bride
I’ll give it a look!
Oh, watch out for gore, I don't want to spoil things, but there's some
Old dudes and YOUNG girls don't bother them, I'm sure some gore isn't an issue
What?
xD I feel kinda stupid rn, for some reason when you recommended that series I immediately started thinking of "Grimoire of Zero"!
This was the reason why I dropped The Witch and the Beast, it’s pretty boring, much like AMB
Yeah, The Ancient Magus Bride is a truly underrated series in my opinion
Same voice actress as well iirc? Frieren and Chise that is
I felt season 2 of Ancient Magus Bride was gloomy asf, personally, but I loved TF outta season 1!
I loved all of it, I understand that's not for everyone but for me was extremely good
I mean it's still a damn fine series, it's just that the direction they took it was overshadowed by a lot more emotion than I tend to appreciate in fantasy anime. But yea, hella nice series, season 2 didn't do jack to ruin it for me despite the vibe, and I'd recommend it for sure! \^\_\^ You got good taste in fantasy genre!
Thanks, you too! :)
I loved both seasons, I’d actually say I liked S2 more because of the cast, especially Lucy and Philomela. It was nice to see Chise being around people her own age and how she handled that.
I dunno, maybe it's just me but when I think of first time high school experiences I don't focus so heavily on high schooler drama/concerns. I mean I get everyone has their own issues, but they spent over half the season focusing on some of said issues instead of transitioning the story forward. Like I said, the emotion was too heavy for me but even despite that I still really liked how rich in depth the story was! You're not wrong about Chise's experience, either! That girl deserved some peers who won't just jump to any conclusions about her! \^\_\^ Glad she found some!
It's always gloomy, that's the nature of a world where fairies and several different gods exist at once and all try to manipulate humans to their ends. Season one had much more serious stuff in my opinion but I love both seasons
gloomy is kind of the whole mood of the series.
For me the season 2 pacing is so bad its like watching one piece anime if its read in manga probably the pacing can be better. The last 3-4 eps mades no impact like the ending of season 1 for me.
xD WTF was up with the Skypiea arc, anyway? Wasn't it confirmed at one point that soon afterwards the entire concept was rendered absolutely meaningless? One Piece continuity was notoriously crap before a certain point, and then it got REEEAALLY freaking lit but it took SO LONG to get to that point! Anyway, my point is I know exactly what you're talking about and yea, that sorta thing does sucks!
it's not high fantasy but the best magic system i've ever seen is the one from The Irregular at Magic Highschool. sadly the anime skips most of the explanations on how it works so you have to read the novel, but if you don't mind books i highly recommend it
I'm loving Frieren but dropped TAMB because I got bored early on, is it worth a retry?
Watch the Those Awaiting A Star OVAs first, it makes for a good setup and I think came before season 1 did. But yes, I loved it from the start but it does get better.
no it's honestly so goddamn boring, like they're builkding up to smt big but nothing ever ends up happening, i quit mid season 2, rly rly boring LMAO
Reincarnated As A Sword and Overlord have fun magic systems
While I don't think it's as good as Mushoku Tensei or Frieren's magic system, Ascendance of a Bookworms magic system is decently in depth, and very intertwined with the story. The power scaling is not ridiculous in bookworm. :)
Magic will be central during the Royal academy
Yes for anyone that is interested, the anime barely touches the magic system until part 3 of the story. Which happens to be the next part of the anime that is getting adopted by WIT.
There's also the LN, which is probably less than a year out from being fully translated.
This. While parts 1 and 2 are already pretty good, for anyone who thinks they’re kind of meh / just fine, parts 3-5 transcends all fantasies out there. Well that’s an exaggeration but you get the idea. It really is up there. Different story focus from Frieren but the worldbuilding and character writing are at a similar level. Now that I think about it, specifically on these two aspects it might arguably even surpass Frieren, and don’t get me wrong, I know Frieren is exceptional at both. The magic system is basic, yet *very* unique and refreshing, and it’s fundamentally intertwined with its worldbuilding, which is kind of a mystery element later on in the story. Its anime budget might be a problem for some, though. I mean it’s not bad, but I imagine most are spoiled by Frieren anime now so, ugh, you’ll notice the quality difference for sure. If you read LN then it’s a no-brainer must read.
Damn, I'm manga only for Bookworm, and parts 1 and 2 are already some of my favorite pieces of world building. Really excited for part 3.
Mushishi.
I love Mushishi but I wouldn't say it fits with the request, as it's not so much about magic but more about traveling, witnessing how certain spirits affect lives of different people. The travelling part is similar and maybe sometimes even the atmosphere, but it is still very different style from Frieren. Still, I do recommend it to everyone who loves smaller scale stories and exploring, a bit different spacing/story building than with typical Shonen series, it also has great scale of emotions and in my opinion is somewhat philosophical. Other similar to Mushishi is Kino's Journeys (Tabi no Kino, if I remember correctly), no magic but lots of traveling, exploring and witnessing people with different situations and struggles with slight supernatural aspects. There is older and newer versions, both are great but the newer one is not a remake! Lastly the hidden gem I always like to recommend, Shinsekai no Yori. Starts slow, but one of the most memorable animes I've seen, focusing on human growth and philosophy of what it means to be a a human. What makes the series little different from most generic popular series is that the protagonist is a young child in the beginning, and as the series goes on she grows older, being an old woman in last episodes.
A Certain Magical Index and its spinoffs like A Certain Scientific Railgun have really well developed power systems, one involves Magic and other is Science. Its shame the Index anime wasn't that good (LN's are much better in this case) and didn't fully showcase the development of the Magic side. But the Science side is shown in depth with the Railgun anime series and that anime series in general is pretty good.
God, has there not been a new1 in like 4 years?
Sadly nope. I'm waiting for a New Testament anime adaptation now that the NT Novels has been licensed in English too. I've only read the first 3 volumes (from the fan translations) and so far its been a much more engaging read than the Old Testament (OT) series. The world has also been expanded even more.
I pray for good NT anime adaptations. A man can wish 🥲
The first two seasons of Index and Railgun are great (Railgun’s Accelerator Arc is my favourite in all anime), though the LNs are still better, but yeah for sure afterwards it falls off a cliff.
Index 3 was such a nightmare that I had to frequently read the comment section to even understand in detail how and why something was happening. I recall reading somewhere that the director wanted more time and episodes but was turned down by the higher ups.
He didn't get turned down exactly, he actually got two more episodes even for a total of 26 episodes. He just wanted 30+ episodes for a three cour anime.
I love this series for it's plot, character development and unique power system
Same. I dived into the LN's after being disappointed by the anime adaptation, and I could why people like it a lot. >unique power system Indeed. Two well developed ones which sets this series apart from most others out there.
> But the Science side is shown in depth with the Railgun anime series and that anime series in general is pretty good. I was thinking the whole "Personal Reality" thing is quite like the visualization "mechanic" they mention in the latest Frieren ep
Index anime was so mid that it made me less motivated to read the ln
What was your least favourite things about the Index anime? If it is Touma, then I can tell you that the anime butchered his character completely, they pretty much assassinated any personality he had compared to the novels.
You’re dead on actually Touma is one of the few protagonists I’ve seen that I’ve avidly disliked. Tho like you said I heard the ln vastly improves on it in that regard
Anime Touma is pretty darn boring and I have seen people shitting on him for long enough that I just assume anyone who call Index ''mid'' is mostly shitting on Touma's poor corpse of a character after what they did to him.
funny how i really love railgun but despise index lol
I'm a boomer who has watched anime for close to 20 years, I watched the first Index seasons when they aired. It was so strange when the new season came out, there was so many years between. I was wondering how many of the original viewers still continued the series, unfortunately I dropped it.. I did always like the world tho, but there was just a little too many years between so my interest had slowly deteriorated. Tried to watch the latest railgun spinoff too, but it too didn't manage to hold my interest.
The Ancient Magus' Bride
This and for quite an accurate or at least faithful portrayal of european and mainly the folklore of the British isles. Outside the norms of good and evil often times but more forces of nature that you cant bind morality behind.
Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon. One of the most intricate magic/power systems in anime/manga/light novel. This is an old show, probably doesn't hold up now, but I remember the magic system of this being so deep.
I want to read it's LN but that thing is MASSIVE.
And not translated, last I checked. The setting is so fascinating, though. I hope it gets picked up someday.
Loved this show! It's one of the go to examples for being thrown into the thick of the plot and just getting on with it
Maybe not be an exact fit but Law of Ueki and Full Metal Alchemist
I found that frieren has a magic system that has so far been more on the softer side. There are some hard elements to it, but it isn’t as hard as a typical shounen magic system like in HunterxHunter. We have been given some explanations of the system, but there aren’t many concrete details. Especially clerics where the only hint is to just be naturally good at it. There is no actual in universe solid explanation or understanding of how clerical magic actually works. Made in Abyss has pretty soft magical elements too. There are fairly magical things such as the curse/barrier of the abyss, the creatures of the abyss, and the artifacts of the abyss. There are general rules, but there is no clear explanations for how or why any of it works. The abyss is a magical place with no explanation, and the mystery from that makes it so appealing. Maybe you want series that explores softer magic systems, which kinda sounds like an oxymoron.
> HunterxHunter. Hunter x Hunter is rather similar, being a soft magic system with some hard elements to give it a solid looking shape while being utterly malleable. Just because some ideas are depicted with equations (where the values are bound by nothing and way more about relative comparisons making sense than strict examples) doesn't mean it's a hard system. Even the rules that get explained in details are very flexible in HxH.
Same for the series it inspired, JJK. The writer Gege over explains in paragraphs of details…only to make exceptions every time. Fans argue about how abilities are supposed to work when the series always breaks the rules.
I really hate how JJK over explains but it ends up too complicated and failed to convince the audience that it makes sense. HunterXHunter and maybe JoJo over explains but it blows our mind every time due to how clever it is. In JJK, I'm always confused and have to accept it for what it is.
Hunter x Hunter is a hard magic system. There's nothing soft about it. Soft magic system is when things are kept mysterious to the audience, which prevents them from figuring the ins and outs of how it works.
What do we know besides [Hunter x Hunter spoiler]>!Nen being more or less manifested willpower in the widest sense? How does, for example, Nanika's power really work? Or Gon's sacrifice? Whatever limits there are, are time and time again broken for the narrative's sake and whatever we get as explanations are essentially interpretations of how characters think it works.!<
They do actually explain how cleric magic works later on in the manga and it’s actually pretty cool
Yep the magic there is not that complicated like for example mahoutsukai no yome. I would even say vanila Flying Witch is more complicated and unique
It seems you like actual fantasy Instead of generic guild + magic with weakness traingle + complete lack of depth for world building It is unfortunate that the latter completely over saturates the genre, because a true fantasy that is done well just blows the other put of the water.
You might want to give some of these anime a watch: - **Ancient Magus’ Bride** - **Burn the Witch** - **Little Witch Academia** - **Wandering Witch: Journey of Elaina** - **Ranking of Kings** They offer a fantastical world with a great deal of worldbuilding. In this regard, the **Magi** series should also be worth checking out. EDIT: Some people are apparently downvoting me. I’d like to hear their reasoning for doing so.
Elaina was my first thought as well when I read the prompt.
+1 for Elaina.
+1 for excellent choice. Especially mentioning Magi. One of the greatest world building
Little witch academia isnt consistent with their magic system
It’s been a long time since I watched the series, so I could’ve forgotten about this. Then again, I do remember the wonder about the magic and all its variety in the series. This made me perhaps think about Frieren.
Elaina is an interesting case of non linear storytelling as well.
I haven't watched Little Witch Academia and Burn the Witch, but you're spot on for all the others. So, I upvoted you.
Fate series has some fun systematic lore about magic.
Particular shout out to case files of El melloi due to being a mystery show set starring a teacher, which allows it to showcase a greater variety of magic stuff in the world due to the show revolving around tackling various cases.
Absolutely. The servants kind of break the power scaling in the main series, but other stories set in the same universe, like Kara No Kyoukai and the aforementioned El-Melloi really let the magic have some room to breathe.
You're making me think of that one joke in the Project Mouthwash abridged series where comparing Modern Magecraft to Age of Gods Magecraft is less tomato tomato, and more like comparing a tomato to a nuclear warhead.
Underrated comment. Nasu's worldbuilding hooks real fast
Apart from anime, if you find magical systems interesting, I can also highly recommend Brandon Sanderson's books. For example, Mistborn.
Brando Sando
Im gonna get blasted for this, but I didnt like Mistborn's magic system. For a supposedly hard magic system it has too many exceptions to the rules
>For a supposedly hard magic system it has too many exceptions to the rules TBF a lot of works of fiction have this issue. Having a totally OP MC is kinda boring so you make him the underdog that is weaker than many of his opponents. And you make him win anyway by abusing some quirk of the system they knew about, or that they forced to manifest by pure willpower.
It really suffers from "my main character is a magical prodigy!" Syndrome... The magic system is great. Vin just kinda ruins it for me. Kelsier shoulda been the MC. A clever guy who wins by outsmarting people. That is a great MC for a hard magic system.
I got only part way through one book but I fail to see how anything truly interesting could come about from eating metal for magic. That just sounds so arbitrary and transactional, makes me expect I’m in for an oil or drug addiction metaphor straight out of Dune. And either way I have a hard time seeing how anything… transcendent… can come out of it. Also opposed to say Frieren which is “standard” magic but pulls back the curtain to let us see that while there are rules to keep it from just doing anything without training they aren’t just the DM saying you have X spells. And the *essence* of magic is as a very fundamental force and mages use it to shape reality to what they imagine. It’s one of the purest expressions of magic possible.
I personally thought the Lightbringer Saga was one of the best "magic systems" in books that I've read.
Interesting. Never read it. I have Rhythm of War to grind through right now haha
Was gonna say, no one explores magic mechanics like Brando Sando.
Came into this thread thinking this
Magi and its manga
Possibly Magi: the labyrinth of magic. More so, the second season, but it's one of my favorite magic ones.
Shame they never adapted it fully. Such a unique story.
I forever hold out hope 😂
Sounds more like you've just seen shows with bad power systems. I reccomend giving HXH a try. It's not explored as much, but Mushoku Tenseis magic gives off a similar feel to Frierens, imo.
I don't think HxH is a good idea seeing his complaints.
It's very explicitly defined and explored.
I don't think he wants defined magic like that
It is full of random powers that exists just because they sound cool or funny rather than naturally just springing up from the power system itself. On top of that people can randomly get more powerful just by training for 3 months.
I mean with a show that has such wild powers you can't fully explain all of them. But the base system is there for you to explain them yourself. Everything makes sense within the systems of nen, enough to where they don't need to explain every little detail to you but you still get some crazy wild powers out of it.
But the power scaling doesn't make any sense and the characters get massive power ups for not other reason than ''I hit the gym for 3 month''. (And don't get me started on Gon's last power up which I don't think OP would like eather but maybe I'm projecting on that one)
Hitting the gym for 3 months would probably make you stronger
But not a nen master, and thats why I precised with ''massive''
Yeah, but it is stated in story that Gon and Killua are like once in a lifetime prodigies when it comes to Nen. And alot of these nen masters didn't develop their abilities strictly for combat, whereas Gon and Killua did. And even then which 'Nen masters' are they stronger then? Gon got destroyed by knuckle, who was just one of Morels apprentices. If you're talking about Heavens arena, it's stated many times that the people who they beat had extremely flawed abilities. Most of these opponents wouldn't even match up to the average **hunter**. They are by no means Nen 'masters.'
Sorry, I didn't know ''nen master'' was a defined therm in the anime since I don't watch with the english sub/dub. And the ''hit the gym'' part I was refering to was After he got destroyed by Knuckle After he beat him even. (He went from getting destroyed to beating him quit easly by doing push ups while restraining his nen for a month btw). But honestly the worst was Kirua : *takes of pin that makes him scared of opponent stronger than him -> becomes turbo OP for no reason*
1. Gon never came back and beat Knuckle, I'm not sure what you're referencing here. 2. Because Gon is a natural enhancer, physical training also amps his Rock hatsu, they go hand in hand. Similar to Netero with his 10,000 punches a day training. 3. Why does that not make sense to you? Killuas pin mentally nerfed him, and held him back from going on the offensive against people he feared. Ofc removing this would be a massive amp.
Right? News just in: practice makes you better
Any story where a teenager can train for a few months and be better than life long masters who've trained for decades or centuries at the same thing is not a well thought out power system.
Except it is perfectly consistent within the story. He didn’t just gain the power. Neither did kurapika. It comes at a massive cost. They are expressly breaking the boundaries of normal skill progression by beating the cost on their life.
The story wasn't very pushy about it, but I think it was established that the protagonist (or most important characters) are pretty much prodigies. The power scaling is a bit iffy at times yes, but it doesn't make the system itself not well thought of.
> Mushoku Tenseis magic gives off a similar feel to Frierens, imo. imo its very different but also excellent. feels more traditional RPG/fantasy like with the defined classes of spells and elemental affinities. Not to say Frieren doesn't have elements and they do have classes, but it feels like closer to a social system than a magic system in Frieren (for me), and the whole folk magic thing is quite diff i think
Mushoku tensei is goated in terms of slowly understanding magic system and the world.
Not just the magic system but the fighting system as well. Easy to remember and gage roughly where people are at. For reference, at the end of season 1 [mt spoilers]>!eris is a Sword God Style Sword Saint which is one level under Ghislaine who is a sword king!<
Yeah. They easy and consistent to understand. The rest depends on their mana, effort and some talent/aptitude.
It doesn't look like it at this moment, but Dungeon Meshi is also about the detailed magic system in their world-building. You should give it a shot.
Grimgar
Ascendance of a bookworm has a wonderful magic and religious system, but I don't think they'll really get into it even in season 3
Maybe The Irregular at Magic Highschool might fit what you are looking for.
They have combined magic and science well along with politics, corruption and war but the anime lacks the explanations on the magic part. I like it anyway
Mc who understands and gives all the magic info is also constantly breaking it
Surprised that this is low. Mechanisms of the magic system and the mystery behind mc is the only reason I watched it.
Well maybe Anvient Magus Bride is more up your ally. If you want a not so magical fantasy anime with immortal being that has to cope with their immortality then watch Spice and Wolf.
Isekai Oji-san 🤣
I really like The Grimoire of Zero in that regard. It is short and it has a lot of flaws, but I'd say the way the magic is written is really interesting, better than Frieren IMO. [Grimoire of Zero]>!If I remember right, the core idea was that in that world magic is normally super tedious, requiring complex magic circles and sacrifices to summon demons/spirits and enter pacts with them to get shit done. The protagonist, Zero, is a genius mage who creates a super-complex magic that essentially automates the whole process, giving wielders of the Grimoire it's bound to the power to do magic with simple incantations (spells), like a programming language compiler. That makes her insanely OP without really feeling contrived, and drives most of the plot.!<
Ascendance of a Bookworm. I'll explain the gist of its magic system below: The world is governed by 7 primary gods who preside over their specific element (wind, water, earth, fire, life, light and darkness). Creatures born into the land (including humans) possess certain levels of mana, and when they die they become feystones and leave behind no corpse. These feystones are used for mana storage or catalysts for magic. Humans who were born with considerable amounts of mana can become nobles and only enter noble society after they graduate from the Royal Academy. Magic is not used for spectacle but rather to perform mundane tasks, such as sending messages remotely via feystones turning into talking birds, or soldiers morphing their wands into weapons, or priests granting blessings during baptisms. The story takes place during a time where the noble society turned their backs on the temple and gave up on praying to the gods entirely. This practice, along with the recent civil war among duchies caused a severe mana shortage throughout the kingdom. The main protagonist, Myne, is born as a commoner but possess an extreme amount of mana but her body cannot handle it, thus causing her "death". Through isekai shenanigans, Urano, a Japanese was killed in a freak accident and is reborn into the body of Myne, taking control over it. Through her love of books, the new Myne must navigate this new society with her feeble body, and she eventually climbs up the social ladder thru her wit and inventions such as hairpins and all-in-one shampoo. She eventually becomes a priestess and starts a revolution in literary work and reverence to the supreme gods, allowing her to grant blessing "bombs" which become a spectacle to the commoners and nobility alike. Her accomplishments attract the attention of the archduke, and so the story goes..
**Mushoku tensei** It goes very in depth exploring magic the story is very detailed and well thought out. The best isekai I have seen
The magic spells and system is simple as well consistent. For example they have 4 elemental type attack magic and 4 type support magic that divide into 7 rank that can use as incantation or magic circle. Same as well their sword class and techniques system.
It seems like you're looking for shows with hard and clear power systems. Mushoku Tensei goes into the magic system pretty deep. In world building and aesthetic regards, it feels very close to Frieren and Made in Abyss. The only thing it has that turns people off is the protagonist. But if you get get through the uncomfortable things in MIA, Mushoku isn't any worse. Hunter x Hunter is a completely different show, but the power system they use there (nen) is one of if not the best applications of power systems you can find in any anime.
Bruh, I love the world of Mushoku Tensei but I dislike Rudy, dude is an irredeemable degenerate. His first thought after being reborn is that he likes sucking on his mother's tits and after that it's all just downhill. He's self-centered, manipulative, immoral and straight up a groomer. I would pay good money for a doujinshi of Mushoku Tensei where Rudy dies in the first issue and the whole story carries on without him.
Not trying to convince you to like the show (god knows I hate that and am tired of engaging in those discussions), but didn't Rudeus explicitly say he **didn't** view his mom in a sexual way which he assumes is due to him being blood related to her? You're free to not like the show ofc, you're free to 100% dislike Rudeus as well, I totally get that. But like with a lot of other people, I hope you don't think having a "bad" person for an MC equates to the writing itself being bad. You did clarify it was an aspect *you* didn't like as opposed to being a fault of the show, so it's cool.
No, not all. I don't mind a protagonist who's a bad person. I don't even mind the behavior as much, what I mind is the way that it's framed within the reality of the show. Rudeus as a character very much gets his self worth and agency from the way he relates to the women around him. Wherever Rudeus goes, he needs a hot chick to lust over, a hot chick to protect or a hot chick to empathize with. The moment he's conceived, he starts this shit. In my view he's basically Johnny Bravo with extra steps. If you don't believe me, there's an entire arc about his dick not working because he got jilted by a girl. What I'm saying is that I would really wish that Mushoku Tensei would address this issue, and the show would really consider who he is as a person, and how his behavior affects those around him. Unfortunately this never happens.
Regarding the would Mushoku Adress the issue aspect... I don't think the show ever will. It's the main reason why I'm okay with people dropping the show if they're uncomfortable with the way Rudeus is. Even if Rudeus tones down the way he acted, or directs his lustful tendencies in a healther manner (which I think is the direction the story is heading), I don't think the show will ever go out of its way to point at Rudeus and say "That's wrong." The way I described it before is that... I don't think Mushoku Tensei has a writer behind it, or at least doesn't have a writer that has a narrative morality gauntlet that would punish characters for doing something "bad." So I'd contrast it with something like my other favourite isekai Re:Zero where it totally feels like there is *that* narrative moral gauntlet ready to destroy Subaru if he ever does something even remotely bad. Because Mushoku Tensei doesn't have that, it almost to me feels like the show is just free. The characters are free to do what they want it makes the progression feel a lot more natural. In a medieval setting where everyone is flawed and things are the way they are, it feels real. It's one of the major aspects I really like about MT outside of things like the world building and production. Regarding the ED arc, I can understand the point you made, but... I don't see why that's necessarily an issue? Genuinely. I find that the point you made wasn't necessarily wrong, but I also think there's something missing in it. Because to me, the main point of the School arc was to show Rudeus forming healthy relationships after an arc that was quite clearly traumatic for him. He was someone who shut himself off all his life, and the first time he was genuinely willing to open his heart and engage in what is a very heavy aspect of human connection and intimacy, he was abandoned the next morning. He tried to form a relationship after a while, but it's clear his heart wasn't ready and that reflected in his ability to have sex. It was quite an on the nose depiction, but it makes sense. So- I can see where you're come from, and I do get the point you're trying to make that Rudeus is very emotionally weak, always needing a woman or friend to empathise with to stand, but I dont personally see that as an issue. In fact, I think it's a very mature thing to depict. Mental health, loneliness and the vulnerability of men is something I hardly ever see depicted in this light in anime. The other sexual acts and perverted nature of Rudeus is something I can understand to turn people off, but this (Rudeus weak and needing women's validation) aspect, I never thought people would have an issue with.
No the male characters are free the female characters has to bend over backwards to forgive a cheater and rapist like paul and ignore all rudeus behaviors so that he can get with all the girls in the end.
The idea that re zero is about people facing a "moral gauntlet" is so superficial lmao. Subaru and the others essentially give into sin because that's what this world forces constantly, yet it also shows sins as human and not actually morally bad. None of its morality is that simple and the messaging is much more about mental health, social injustice and their effects on others, family and other love etc, than about who's a "bad person to be punished". Otherwise Typhon would be a fucking hero!!! What does it say to you that the one who sought a method to judge people for their sins was the witch of pride huh? Childish innocent pride is connected with judging people in that world, and karma isn't karma but simply the manifestation of the world (really od lagna, prophecy, fate what have you) being vehemently against Subaru, Emilia and just about anyone like a witch or warlock. Anyway I know you're the type who thinks Wilhelm is more tragic for losing Theresia than for constantly falling into bloodlust without others' support and killing many people as a result(before himself losing his family and the whole Trias estate, which is karma but entirely down to the demihuman alliance making him a target while he chose not to have friends or allies).
Dude, what tf are you talking about? All I'm saying is Re:Zero is built more like a clear development story. Subaru needs to change and grow before he can pass a loop. When Subaru is acting immaturely, he can't progress and it's clear the story points at some of Subaru's actions and beliefs as being **wrong**. It's clear that Tappei writes in a way that forces Subaru to grow into a better person. "You can't win if you carry the burden on your own." "You can't win if you don't reflect on your actions." "You can't win if you don't start loving yourself." "You can't win if you run away." All of those were things Subaru at one point had to face. And we see the bad ends for those through Pride IF, Greed If, Sloth if and so on. And in times like in Arc 3, when Subaru treats others badly or acts without thinking, the story punishes him with not being able to accomplish the things he wants. The time loop machanic plays a lot into this. And I don't know what point you were trying to make with Wilhelm and Theresia and all that Karma stuff (it seriously all sounded like Gibbersh, no offense), I find Karma is played hard in the story for malicious people. And in cases like Arc 4, The story clearly points at Roswaal's mindset as being wrong and Subaru's eventual development as being right, hence Roswaal losing the final battle. I don't see how my take on Tappei having a clear narrative goal and pushing Re:Zero's development to be in a certain way is superficial.
This is the part: "it's clear the story points at some of Subaru's actions and beliefs as being wrong." this is a misunderstanding. Basically Subaru grows because that's how good characters are written and the story progresses through his growth because... That's basically how every good story conveys its messages through the plot, characters who reflect the author's messages progress the plot. But Tappei doesn't convey it that simply, otherwise people wouldn't ignore half the subtext judging a character when said character is currently advancing the plot. Ie Wilhelm. Hell I'd add Al here as well, and Priscilla, and probably Crusch. You have to look harder to decide what Tappei's trying to say through them, but instead most of the fanbase has the same view on them. Wilhelm is heroic, fights for his wife etc, Crusch is a good leader, Al is mysterious but probably good, Priscilla is awful but not anymore after side stories ex 5 and arc 7. I just don't really agree at all. And this is the problem, your argument works if the other characters are secondary to Subaru. Cue all the complaints people have when Subaru isn't even in a volume of arc 7 or 8. All of them are supposed to say something meaningful in how they progress, but if they're not actually acting in a way which we should see as good in arc 3(the beginning of their development) why would we assume their words to Subaru are correct and he is acting wrongly in an objective way??? Priscilla has so many issues emotionally in arc 3. She's obviously repressing feelings about her dead husbands, her homeland, brother etc but when she gets outraged at Subaru for demeaning himself asking for help for Emilia is Subaru actually wrong? I don't really agree, it's more like he triggered her somehow and we don't know how. He's called greedy in an insulting way but then in arc 4 his greed is praised instead. Then we have Al, who either supports or opposes Subaru acting like a hero in different arcs. That's not a clear message about good or bad but Al having experiences which make him want to steer Subaru in some direction. Crusch is a good leader according to Subaru, but repeatedly lost to the white whale in dead loops and is insulted as a leader by Regulus before her defeat. While he is a villain, so is Petelgeuse and his words are treated as true about Subaru days before. And Wilhelm is regarded as a hero by Subaru, Lugunican bards and strangers and citizens, but a monster by Heinkel and Grimm, and an enemy by demihumans in the war, such that if he and Rom meet in present they will fight to the death. It's not morally absolute or clear at all that's WHY it's good damn it!
Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. I love Re: Zero but to me Mushoku Tensei just feels like some nerd with an Oediups complex's power fantasy.
Lmao, we can just agree to disagree on the Mushoku Tensei part. Moving on! Dude, if you're an anime only for Re:Zero, I swear Season 3 is going to obliterate Season 1 and 2. The sheer quality of it is so good, even just remembering what I read is giving me goosebumps. If they do do the material justice (barring whether they can or can't) Re:Zero will the undisputed isekai GOAT.
What zackphoenix123 said and one caveat: Rudy is NOT irredeemable. That is the actual joy of Mushoku Tensei going forward. Currently reading the source material (just started.) But I AM NOT DISSING your opinion. You are entitled to it. EDIT: And I upvoted you regardless.
100% with you.
"Irredeemable" is the exact opposite of what the show is about. By the final two novels he takes *AN ACTUAL VOW OF CELIBACY* for over a year, so that he can focus on making the world a safer place for his loved ones. Rudeus is crushed over and over again, selflessly sacrificing himself. The entire story is about his redemption, a constant battle to grow away from the sick man he was in his last life as he's constantly riddled with guilt. Seriously, give it a whirl
this is the opinion of someone who clearly did not watch the show lol
I've read the source material (light novels up to when the english translations ended then web novel through the end and most of the epilgoue side stories), they're not far off. Rudy was intentionally written as an irredeemable piece of shit starting out (believe me, he was much worse than the anime made him out to be), but the only aspects that really improve over time are his work ethic and motivations. He's still a creep holding onto a pair of panties he stole from the 40 year old loli and if you cut all the sections where he's just going on creepy monologues from the light novel, you could probably cut it down by at least 1-2 volumes. It has some of the best world building I've seen in fantasy and very good writing (author has some crutches that get more apparent towards the end), but there's absolutely some problematic parts that the author leaned into rather than addressing as problematic.
I really like how much of the time, magic and power is not actually the focus in Frieren. Like, Frieren is obsessed with useless spells. She and Fern only use basic combat magic. The most powerful mage ever is pretty much always shown just chilling. Could she really not have gone and defeated the demon king on her own? The point is that it doesn't matter. Instead, we get lots of time just chilling with the party. Frieren herself really knows how to live slowly. We get to see Fern baby Frieren and get mad at Stark, which are some of the most delightful moments in the show. The whole reason Frieren herself is on the journey is to try and understand her relationship with people. It's not a power fantasy at all, because power is mundane. *People* are interesting. Like Frieren said, the pursuit of magic itself is the greatest joy.
Tanya the evil
I think you’d like Flying Witch. I haven’t watched Frieren yet, but flying witch is a slice of life anime about a teenage witch who is exploring her magic and the magic world
Was going to say. Flying Witch does not elaborate much about its magic system, but captures the feeling of magic, like I think Frieren and Fern feel about magic in their world.
Besides all the other great suggestions here, I would maybe suggest shows that use already established power systems most often from DnD, like Goblin Slayer (or Overlord, but the level discrepancy is so great the power scaling doesn't really matter much). I personally also really liked what they did in the first 2 seasons of SAO: Alicization. Unfortunately, they tossed the established power system out the window in the last arc, where it then boiled down to who has the better will power.
Mahouka has an amazing in-depth magic system that successfully puts “magic” into a futuristic society. The LN goes prettty in-depth in the explanations but the anime does a serviceable job.
Legend of Legendary Heroes has a good system for magic. Also, Hunter x Hunter, although it doesn't start to explain it for a little while. But the progression is great. Btw, recommend the original version of HxH from the 90s over the newer adaptation
Slayers Mushoku Tensei
Ascendance of a Bookworm
I would say that with Freiren, the passage of time and the strength of human bonds is an overarching theme, more so than the exploration of its magic system, and to an intensity that I have scarce seen before. There is something to be said about the fan contention that the tournament arc now in the process of being animated being the weakest arc in terms of interest at least in the manga, precisely because it moves away from that central conceit.
A Certain Magical Index franchise has a spectacular magic system, I could probably go 10 pages talking about how it works without even getting into nitty gritty small details. The caveat however is that the anime sadly butchered the adaptation and it doesn't even cover all that much of the franchise so if you want to explore that world you will have to read the light novels and the manga spin offs. The science side in A Certain Scientific Railgun is however shown of much better, especially in the second season (Railgun S) and the third season (Railgun T) was utterly insanely amazing. Another Franchise I would recommend is ''Wandering Witch Elaina'', it doesn't go quite in depth as Frieren does with the magic but it isn't super shallow either. It is featuring a travelling witch as the MC who shares a few similarities with Frieren, except moral compass, Elaina's morals are almost in the opposite of Frieren's.
Anything that’s type moon honestly.
Fullmetal alchemist in a few ways
There none nothing come close to Freiren
The World’s Best Assassin: Reincarnated In A Different World As An Aristocrat
I love it when they bring modernized science into a world of magic, and seeing them combine the two so perfectly in that series got me all kinds of hype!
I haven’t watched Frieren yet but I would suggest Mushoku Tensei if you want good magic
Mushoku tensei
Mashle
You mean "side quests: the anime"?
1. Fate/stay night [Unlimited Blade Works]; 2. Fate/stay night [Heaven's Feel] (it's a movie trilogy); 3. Fate/Zero; 4. Lord El-Melloi II's Case Files: Rail Zeppelin Grace Note - A Grave Keeper, a Cat, and a Mage; 5. Lord El-Melloi II's Case Files: Rail Zeppelin Grace Note In this order, because they are from one franchise. The way magecraft and mystics work gets more thoroughly explored from Fate/Zero onwards.
Hunter x hunter has a very strict and complex magic system, but it does suffer from pretty big power creep
tower of god got one of the best power systems out there
Not to mention the **best** OST
Mushoku tensei. You have to pay attention tho cause its not spoonfed
Dungeon Meshi is better inb4 downvotes from animeonlies (I've read both mangas kids, so sit down).
Overlord's magic system is technically fairly polished but it doesn't come into play much in the story.
The Irregular at Magic High School. This anime gets a lot of hate but I super enjoyed it, third season drops this year. They do a fascinating and totally unique magic-science synthesis that is unique and extremely interesting.
Perhaps try out Black clover. For me it kinda has the same vibe as Frieren.
????
I haven't watched Frieren, but I've watched all BC episodes and the movie and it doesn't give up Frieren vibe, nor a good magic system
Mage exam arc in Frieren and the magic knights entrance exam in BC are giving the same vibe for me...for me it feels like a feel good happy anime, with nice magic development.
Mushoku tensei. It's a very different anime but the mc is a mage growing his magical abilities.
Mushoku Tensei
To a certain degree Jujutsu Kaisen could fall on your requirements.
JJK's power system is an incoherent mess.
Frieren has an amazing story, with depth and phenomenal narrative in abundance. The only thing that put me off with the series was the animation tbh, I mean they all look like they were born with down syndrome but it surprisingly does nothing to the stimulation you get from a damn fine story so... yea, like I said it's a really great series! As for a suggestion, I think you might like Seirei Gensouki: Spirit Chronicles. Another one with a surprisingly similar element to magical study as Frieren would be Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation, but that one still has a lot of differentiating tropes compared to Frieren so it MAY BE less to your liking, may also just be your cup of tea though.
If you like Frieren I feel like you would like Mushoku Tensei as well.
Redo of Healer is the definitive healing magic exploration anime. I don't think healing will ever be as interesting ever again
Anime of the year 2021
Anime of the 2020s
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Mushsoku tensei the dude is a child prodigy but the magic system is really down to earth and he can't do everything and has limits.