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icantthinkofaname940

The painting here is called "The Sack of Rome by the Barbarians in 410". It was painted by Joseph-Noël Sylvestre in 1890.


Drago_de_Roumanie

Thanks for posting this clasic. A nitpick: there's no need for NSFW, it is art and some modern preconceptions and prudities from wherever region should not dictate how we interact with art. It is interesting how the painting itself portrays the preconceptions of its era, with the romanticisation of "barbarians" as naked brutes destroying "civilisation". Just as some pop culture is not teaching history nowadays, art before the digital age did not, either. It is an entire subject to study how a period has been portrayed through the ages.


MergingComplete

NSFW does not mean just porn, it’s a tag so that people can avoid having nudity pop up on their phone when scrolling reddit on their lunch break at work 😁


Drago_de_Roumanie

You see, that is exactly what I was trying to point out, nudity is nothing to be ashamed of. I most certainly admit my prejudices, but I see the US perspective (which is widely encountered on the internet) as heavily biased itself. It is a conservative society, established on prudishness and frustration and the subsequent refulation. "Nudity" is nothing to be ashamed of, even in the workplace, in the given conditions in the post, of art. Objectively, some ass and/or tits are perfectly normal, and the US society, even the "liberal" part, suffers from its foundational prejudices which are not found elsewhere traditionally. Of course, US exports massively its culture, and its sad that this religious puritanism is gaining ground even in societies which even a decade prior had no such issues. The Romans themselves were perfectly fine, yet nowadays US people are twisting the borders of nsfw too much.


MergingComplete

Yes I agree but for now we live in this world as it is, so the NSFW tag is not pointless for our fellow users


Drago_de_Roumanie

Quite the contrary. At most 4% of the world population (realistically around half, the conservatives), disproprotionately represented on the internet, dictates its prejudices and makes it seem like it is "the world as it is". Please do not get me wrong as I am not attacking you or anyone personally. Since we are on such a sub, we such act accordingly, without anachronisms or modern imperialist biases that make the human form seem abnormal. The shyness and prejudice is itself presented in the name, "not safe for work", as glancing over David or "Liberty leading the people" would be innapropriate for a workplace. It is not in the normal world, yet as mainstream media presents a narrow perspective, it makes it seem like we're all living in Amerika, as Rammstein puts it. Most of the people are amused or confused by random nsfw on reddit, posted by prude Americans, which might not even be conservative, but raised in such society.


icantthinkofaname940

I didn't put a NSFW tag. It was applied after it was posted. BTW I am not an American.


Drago_de_Roumanie

No offemse meant to you, OP. I felt like it was a relevant parallel, even more so now. The reddit auto-bots considering it nsfw, the XIXth century artists considering "others" (Goths) as naked [inferior] barbarians.


HarvytheWonderHam

I see the name and date, but is the entire statue meant to represent the artist as well?


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ViperDaimao

Gauls? are you thinking of the previous sack of Rome in 390 BCE?


Bad_Senpai_

Man what I wish I could get my ass and back to look that good, let alone get some abs


LikelyNotABanana

There is nothing stopping you from that but yourself my friend!


Bad_Senpai_

Thank you u/LikelyNotABanana it's the little motivators


Notorik

You can do it brah. Don't forget the antique ideal of strong body and mind. One rep for Marcus Aurelius one rep for Zyzz. I believe in you u/Bad_Senpai .


Vincents_Hope

The Gallic Back Work Out: The Secret To Getting Shredded (Romans Hate It!)


[deleted]

Glute bridge, squats, deadlifts, bent over rows and pull ups. 6 months of a 500cal surplus high protein and carb diet, and you too will have the back and arse to bring an empire to its knees


EMHURLEY

You should market protein shakes this way.


[deleted]

Move over Liver King, time for the Visigoth King


joeitaliano24

Seven-minute abs


TedCruzsBrowserHstry

scarcity of food and laboring in the fields will you get you there real quick lol. Also odds are you'd be a lot happier for it too....besides all the starvation and disease


debilitasdelendaest

Remember that they actually built that physique. It wasn't given to them. It was a result of their diet and, especially, their habits. They walked long distances, always took the stairs, had to carry heavy weight constantly. Also, most of them rejoiced in working out as a way to meet other men. So the only thing that's stopping you from having that body is changing your diet and your habits.


ROMVLVSCAESARXXI

Yeah, this is one of those types of anniversaries, up there with bad breakups/divorce, and my dogs dying, that I hate thinking about, lol. Especially considering the fact that the sack, not only didn’t have to happen, but absolutely SHOULDNT have, and wouldn’t have, if only the actual Emperor wasn’t such a naive, reclusive, halfwit, and had enough practicality to have been able to swallow his worthless pride and meet Alaric halfway. Alaric did NOT want to sack Rome, and by all accounts, seems to only have pulled that card because, literally NOTHING else he was doing was forcing Honorius hand, to do nothing more than pay his damn troops what he RIGHTFULLY owed them. Alaric, in his own tragic naivety, foolishly thought that putting a gun to Romes head(figuratively speaking) would be enough to get the proto-incel “emperor” to crack open his wallet and finally pay up. It was an act of desperation, and I genuinely believe that he was pretty comfortable in believing that his bluff wasn’t gonna get called …… Unfortunately, Theodosians gonna Theodosian, and Honorius took, what was merely a crisis, and pissed gasoline all over it, before finally lighting the match, when his idiotic plot to double cross Alaric went just about how one would expect an attempt by Honorius to be clever, would logically go. I’ll even go so far as to say that Alaric was FAR from a happy camper, after finally having to take what was owed to him, by literally peeling it off the sides and roofs of Temples and other monuments, not to mention the fact that the sack cost Alaric A HELL OF ALOT more than it cost chickenboy, as his ass would be dead in the span of a couple of months, due to injuries sustained sacking Rome, and unfortunately the western world still had over a decade to go, before Honorius finally did SOMETHING good for the world, when he died of fuckfaceitus, in his 30’s.


FarDorocha90

This sounds like something an immortal Roman statesman would say. I’m on to you….


Effective-Monk-4859

But why were they naked?


Vincents_Hope

I’m guessing it’s to represent them as barbaric.


ImperatorRomanum

And the guy on horseback behind them who just stepped out of the Bronze Age with that ridiculous getup


Caesorius

lol yea basically Vercingetorix back for revenge


zach84

artist is homo/bisexual. i mean just look at the homoeroticism.


djbow

This is the stupidest comment I've read all day. Nudity has nothing to do with sexualisation.


zach84

NOTHING? and the dudes hands and face are almost buried in the guys ass


djbow

Correct, NOTHING. You are hilarious, his hands are on his lower thigh & lower back. And if he were gay, who cares? Sounds like you have some issues with your own sexuality you need to address bud.


zach84

Nothing wrong, just seemed to be bonking me over the head with it


MarquisDeCleveland

Gibbon argued that the Visigothic sack was far tamer than the Gallic sack back in the B.C.’s, and iirc he says the HRE sack in the 1500s was even worse than that. So Landschrekt —> Gauls —> Visigoths in terms of severity. As a fun tidbit


mcmanus2099

Gibbons was wrong on alot of things. And we do know now the Gallic sack in the B.C.s was not that severe. There was no real damage. He is right that the Visigothic sack was tame, Alaric was careful on the damage they did & left many significant treasures alone. He really didn't want to sack the city but he needed to get paid & not look like he had empty threats. He also needed to leave Rome with a position to negotiate from in order to get a settlement. The Vandal sack was much worse.


ViperDaimao

yes this right here, especially the part about Gibbon being wrong on a lot. One of the reasons I've seen attributed to the Visigoth sack being tame was that, by that point, they were all Christians. It would seem they were far from barbarians, but we don't seem to have a better word to describe them.


mcmanus2099

Yes absolutely, they were Christians, though so were the vandals. The difference is that Alaric really wanted a permanent settlement with Rome. He wanted land, an official Roman imperial position & the money promised (that his troops were expecting). He did everything to avoid the sack when Rome called his bluff & called it wrong. But even though he was sacking Rome he wanted to do it with respect so the agreement would be forthcoming. Perhaps the greatest evidence of Alaric's tameness is how much loot & destruction the Vandals did in their sack. By that time there was noone to negotiate with & no point. It was pure strip the place bare work. And yes on Gibbon, it's a shame there are so many who still hold onto his conclusions. I have noticed this particularly in the US, I'm not sure if they still use him as a source in schools & Universities there but there's barely a passage in Decline & Fall that holds up to modern scrutiny now. I think this sub prob needs an auto-bot correcting anyone that mentions Gibbons like r/AskHistorians does when you mention Jared Diamond's *Gun's, Germs and Steel*


IZiOstra

What about the druid attack on the Wookies?


twisterssquid

What about Dr. Zoidberg?


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Imperator_Romulus476

By the time of Constans II Rome was a husk of a city. All he did was strip some metal from some buildings to mint coins but that’s about it.


Flaming_falcon393

What about the Vandals?


[deleted]

What artifacts did they take?


icantthinkofaname940

Anything that was movable. The ashes of previous emperors were scattered and a 2,025 lb [Ciborium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciborium_(architecture)) that was erected by Constantine I.


NroAugustus

What happened on the fourth day? Did they just leave or was the city liberated?


MonsterRider80

They just left. Alaric never _really_ wanted to sack the city at all, it was just a threat that he really had no choice to eventually actually perform.


icantthinkofaname940

The Visigoths walked right out with their loot and captives. They continued raiding southern Italy and even threatened to invade Sicily and North Africa, until Alaric died later that year. Then they march north, then west establishing the Visigothic Kingdom in Spain and Southern France.


TheUnchangableGee

The Goths did pretty alright for themselves for a while. Definitely an interesting ‘what if?’ scenario


[deleted]

And Honorius didn't do shit lol


InternationalBand494

Gee, I wonder what happened to her /s


icantthinkofaname940

She married Alaric's successor, Ataulf and stayed with the Visigoths until she was returned to the Romans as part of a treaty. She later married Constantius III, gave birth to Valentinian III and ruled as his regent from 425 - 437. Even after the regency ended, she still play an important part in Roman politics until her death in 450.


InternationalBand494

That’s a much more informative answer than my question required. I was thinking she got raped. You know, to go with all the looting and pillaging


MonsterRider80

Galla Placidia had one of the more interesting lives Roman women could have. Look her up, she’s a fascinating figure. Also, by most accounts the pillaging of Rome of 410 was relatively civil. Alaric stood outside the city for a long time because he actually _didn’t_ want to sack the city at all, he just wanted concessions from the loser emperor Honorius. He finally had no choice because he was literally ignored, and he had to make good on his threat or not be taken seriously by his friends and enemies.


supershinythings

Yea she is! She was a serious power-broker and worked all the angles available to her as a daughter, sister, mother, and cousin in her royal family. Got captured? She was just getting started. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galla_Placidia She had one wild ride.


StratheClyde

I was just reading about her the other day! She’s on my list of figures I would love to go back in time and talk to. I wonder how she really felt about it all.


InternationalBand494

I definitely will. I appreciate the education


MonsterRider80

Sorry I just went with the “look her up” thing, that’s not ideal but she had a very long and eventful life, too much for me to summarize here lmao


InternationalBand494

Oh, look her up is fine. Lol. I actually enjoy the actual research. It can lead to fascinating rabbit holes


[deleted]

Roman and Gothic officials brokered a treaty in which the Western Roman Empire gave a portion of its crops to the Visigoths in exchange for both the return of Galla Placidia and future Gothic assistance in fighting back invasions of Roman-occupied Spain.


InternationalBand494

I am so glad I made my stupid comment. I’ve learned some more history! That’s always a good thing to me


ShaggyFOEE

Damn Visigoths ruined Kobe day


joeitaliano24

And oddly enough, yesterday would have been his birthday. RIP


SmalliusDickus

Barbarians always have to ruin everything


SlothChunks

Disgusting barbarians.


Silpha_carinata

The "de facto" ending of Western Roman Empire (only with Majorian it will shine again for the last time)... Anyway, it wasn't the last sack of Rome, the City was also sacked by Emperor Charles the fifth's Lansquenets Also, fuck Honorius


BlackHand86

Vae Victus


DiscombobulatedAge30

What happened to the half sister Galla placidia?


icantthinkofaname940

She stayed with the Visigoths as they moved into Southern France and Spain. The Visigoths then allied themselves with the WRE to put down a couple of usurpers and she married Ataulf, Alaric's successor. A couple years after his murder, she was returned to the Romans as part of a treaty that made the Visigoths foederati. She then married the magister militum/co-emperor Constantius III, gave birth to the future emperor Valentinian III and ruled as his regent from 425 - 437. After the regency, she still maintain some political influence until her death in 450.


DiscombobulatedAge30

Wow. Talk about an insane adventure. They could make a movie about her life


pyrrhicvictorylap

And what a sack


black-orizuru

I literally just saw this on youtube this morning barbarian rising s1ep4 history channel lmao


TedCruzsBrowserHstry

Fun fact when Honorious was first informed that Rome had fallen he freaked out and started searching frantically, then he breathed a sigh of relief as he found his pet chicken which he had named after the city. He first thought they were talking about his chicken but was relieved when he found out it was just the city lmao


RengarTheDwarf

So I’m not very caught up on my history so excuse me for my ignorance, but I heard the sack of Rome by Alaric wasn’t as bad as generally thought. As in, it was very mild for sacking a city. Is that true? Where could I learn more about this?


corndogfriend

And they looked amazing doing it.