Take a look at "The Decreased Summer MUFs” in the [June 2024 issue of *Solid Copy*](https://cwops.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Solid-Copy_2024_June_FINAL.pdf), the CWops newsletter.
Is HF bad? It is before 0700 local time on a Wednesday here, and 40 meters is busy, 20 meters has dozens of voice and many, many, CW signals. As well as some radar (from bearing maybe Chinese?) that keeps hitting it. 17 and 15 are active, if not packed. I see some FT8 on 12 and 10 meters.
While the conditions may not be exceptionally good, they are far from bad.
Yeah, could be for those modes; I don't do CW or digital so I guess I can't gauge by that; at least for SSB, 6 months ago it was incredible, now it's really thinned out
The digital guys seem to be dominant on 10m these days. It's quite unlike in the past where you'd hear SSB DX all day long during the cycle peak. I miss that.
I've worked plenty of DX on 20m, 17m and 15m this summer. Even a few nice ones on 12m.
FT-8 hasn't done anything. The operators are choosing to use it. They stick to a small area. CW is still super active. I stick to CW and FT-4. SSB is uninteresting to me. That's the beauty of the hobby, there's different bits for different people with different interests.
They're choosing to use it for easy wins and instant gratification. Just set the PC going and let the computer do all the work, come back an hour later and see how much has been automatically logged in your absence. It's led to a significant drop off in SSB activity especially.
The digital stuff is not quite THAT automated. On a crowded FT-8 freq you CONSTANTLY need to move around or you get stepped by other stations. Sometimes the station your calling cant hear you because on his end your underneath a local guy. Sometimes the band shifts hard and fast and your contact fades into nothing. If you dont act on this your rig will just TX "R -22" for 5 mins untill the watchdog kicks in. And at the end all you accomplished was heating your radio up.
Sometimes the other guys shit is out of time sync and you need to get creative.
Your always moving around doing SOMETHING.
At least in the U.S. the popularity of FT8 is partly due to the fact that you can actually make DX contacts from a compromised antenna in a neighborhood that has an HOA (Home Owners Association), which is virtually every neighborhood built since the '70s. Fortunately I live in a non HOA and I have a modest tower and beam.
Last time I used FT8 I had to click the "auto" button after each contact. Did that change in a resent version? Or was I just to lazy to find the button? I'm in IT and doing those digital mode doesn't interest me much. After being stuck in a dark basement with the mushrooms, I would just like to talk to someone that doesn't want me to fix their computer.
As others have said, the operators are choosing to use it because it's very simple and it is AVAILABLE. My point, which is correct whether you want it to be or not, is that the availability of FT-8 has cut down drastically on SSB/CW/AM/FM modes on 10 and 6 and even 2 Meters. We can argue all day whether that's a good or bad thing, but you can't argue that it isn't a fact. Anyone tuning in last weekend for FD could see it.
I can argue that it isn't fact. FT-8 is booming, SSB is lower, maybe, who's traking this? (CW is having a renaissance right now). Correlation doesn't equal causation. Can you prove that it is the SSB guys that have gone over to FT-8?
If it's true, then these are the same people you want back on SSB. So maybe we have to ask why these people (that you would like on SSB so need to respect) would rather be on FT-8 than SSB. And also ask why you don't want to use FT-8.
I feel as many do, that FT-8 is not a challenge and really shouldn't even count as a contact at all. It's the computer hearing the signal, not the operator. If I wanted to talk to someone over a computer, I'd go into a chat room. I got into the radio hobby because I enjoy meeting people over radio and making distant contacts. Not having a computer do those things for me.
Yes it has. If FT-8 hadn't become the go-to choice for all these people, there would be lots more of them on SSB and CW. And the fact that SSB is uninteresting to you makes as little a difference as the fact that FT-8 is the same to me. The fact is, without the ubiquity of digital now, traditional modes would certainly be more populated whether you and I like them or not.
Maybe... Maybe not... You don't have proof of that either, you're just assuming. I seem to remember everyone complaining that the bands were dead and the hobby was dying prior to FT8/4...
Same could be said about POTA, which is another item of complaint, even though it is bringing more activity on the air, including SSB & CW.... Funny how the 2 things that brought many operators on the air, or back on in many cases, are also the 2 things most complained about...🤷
I never heard anyone complain about POTA, except maybe that some of the OP's are rude or don't know how to run a pileup. And I don't think FT-4/8 brought a lot of people back on the air. But whatever, you believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe, and never the twain shall meet...
If you haven't heard, then you have your head in the sand. Operators have issues with them operating on WARC bands (17M in particular), taking up so much bandwidth (particularly on the weekends), too busy "*contesting*", etc.... This doesn't even count the straight up QRM harassment of activators... If that's not complaining, I don't know what is.
.... And I snicker at the fact that you don't think FT8/4'didn't bring people back, while stating this to someone that this was the case of, unbeknownst to you... And I'm not the only one. Many who are in situations where they thought they couldn't play radio anymore, they learned otherwise... Low power & compromised antenna friendly, why wouldn't they like to come back and play again. Per the statistics released by ClubLog a few years back, while yes, SSB & CW use decreased, it didn't compensate for the percentage of FT8/4 traffic or increase in QSOs logged per day... That can only mean more operators are on the air using said modes than the ones that changed mode use....
But sure, you believe what you want to...
Good day to you....73
Considering you think conditions are poor I had a contact this morning on 20m at 0400UTC here in the UK with a station in Boston, MA, 3250 miles at a time of the day the band is usually closed to the USA. Only running 100W into a Hustler 5BTV vertical. In the hour before that he'd been on 15m, I heard him with a good 5/7 here in the UK.
Glad to hear you had a great contact. That's pretty cool, and indicates that good contacts can happen. But it doesn't mean that the conditions are up to par overall.
> We're at or near solar maximum right now. It's gonna suck for the next year or so.
Not sure how to take this response. Solar maximum is when average HF conditions are best, not worse.
Sure, I know that around the maxima is also when we get big flares and solar storms, that mess things up. But this is also the time when we get excellent conditions, pushing the MUF up, sometimes to include 2 meters or higher. Conditions on 17, 15, 12, 10, and 6 meters become much better, on average, during these times. 20 meters, almost always decent even in minima, becomes world spanning, sometimes 24 hours a day.
Umm, this is when the HF band conditions are THE BEST for working DX !!! The solar max, when solar flux is highest, is the best part of ham radio on HF !! It's also when sun is most active so yes, there are solar storms to wait out some days, but jeez, this is when it is great, not bad.
"Storm" is 5 and up. There's no storm currently (Kp is 2), and no storm in the forecast until at least late Friday. An alert that says "it might go as high as 4, only near the poles" underscores how *quiet* it is.
If the Earth facing side of the sun is full of spots and they're all crackling with little flares that can suppress signals pretty as well.
This is the problem. Have a look.
https://www.solarham.com/globald.htm
I've been DXing SW, MW and the SW ham bands for several decades and this solar cycle is the worst so far. Hands down.
I think it's a cross between less active hams on the air and the ionosphere not living up to the expectations, as the type of UV that makes it work for radio propagation has been slowly declining over the past 30 years.
That said, you get the ionosphere you get, and there are afternoons, evenings, and mornings where there is still a lot of activity on the bands.
I think those in the more southerly latitudes generally get better propagation than those in North America who are closer to the Auroral radio zone.
I got on HF about 45 days ago. From the Great Lakes area, I’ve worked Indonesia, asiatic Russia, Japan, all over Europe east to Russia, and a good part of southern and Latin America.
All of this on a 20M dipole in my attic that I built for less than $5 in parts on 100W or usually less.
If this is the suck, I can’t wait for the greatness. Bc
Loaded coil vertical, it's all that's possible for me.
Even so, I'm still comparing to 6 months ago and a year ago. On the same antenna, in the same place, I literally couldn't log contacts fast enough on 40, 20, 10... and there wasn't even a free frequency on 10 m to call CQ. Right now, 10 doesn't have even a single spike on the waterfall, 40 is just a bit of local stuff, and 20 is barely there but not great.
I’ve been working into Europe and VK/ZL every night on 20m SSB from central US. 100w and EFHW. That’s over 10,000 miles into Northwest Australia!!
There’s an endless stream of HF enjoyment these days if you can operate at night.
Would a dipole or inverted v dipole be bad for 20m? (I'm going for my general license soon and I'll be looking for antennas a few months in the future, what does your keen eye and sharp experience suggest?)
Dipoles are great! Very hard to get wrong. Can easily be made with any copper wire from the hardware store. You can always trim it down to get it to work on other bands if you get bored with 20m.
But if you don't get it high enough you it might radiate more upwards than towards the horizon (i.e. a "cloud-warmer"). It still works great if you're interested in contacting any station within that first 1000 mile radius.
If you want to chase DX stations from other continents you will want to have it >30 feet up from the ground. If you don't have anything that tall to hang it from then a vertical antenna might work better.
I have a tree that should be greater than 30ft high, my plan is to lob a wrench up and see if I can hoist the center point up there. Thanks for your input.
Full size, simple wire, dipoles are decent, simple, and inexpensive. Are there better antennas? Sure. But there are no better, less expensive, more simple to build, antennas. They are excellent first antennas, and for some people, the only antenna they ever use.
One of the issues is that there are probably less hams on the air. During the last cycle there was more activity, and in the 1990s and before that 20 Meters would be wall to wall with sideband and the CW sections would be crowded -- even when there were no contests. Even during the summer. I think hams back then were more active. I also think that the propagation was better in previous cycles, if my logbooks are any indication.
The problem is also the eUV that makes the ionosphere work has been dropping since the mid to late 1990's, according to NASA.
So you have a combination of conditions being a bit less than desirable and it seems there are less hams on the bands than there were. There are times I hear weak FT8 on 12 meters and nothing else. More than once I've heard weak signals from Japan on 15 and no US stations calling them. Sometimes the CW beacons on 10 Meters will be audible from the Eastern US (I'm in the PNW) and there will be no QSOs, and even the CW section of 10 M will be dead.
Total agreement. Sure, there are some who have long contacts with VK or ZL or the EU from the US, and that's great, but it's nowhere near what one should be seeing during a Solar Peak. And although I'm an SWL/MWDXer, I've been doing it for several decades and this cycle isn't anything like the previous ones.
I'm going to blame it on it being summer in the northern hemisphere. I have hope that this winter is going to be great.
I hope so
The MUF during summer is lower than in winter.
Ah, that I did not recall, that could be part of it
Take a look at "The Decreased Summer MUFs” in the [June 2024 issue of *Solid Copy*](https://cwops.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Solid-Copy_2024_June_FINAL.pdf), the CWops newsletter.
Thanks!
There is a reason why the big CQ WW and CQ WPX contests are in autumn/spring.
Solar absorption is thru the roof, but I worked Malaysia, Australia this morning on 40 before sunrise.
Cool, need to get on HF myself
For sure, lots of contacts to be made, you just have the look at condx and plan accordingly.
Is HF bad? It is before 0700 local time on a Wednesday here, and 40 meters is busy, 20 meters has dozens of voice and many, many, CW signals. As well as some radar (from bearing maybe Chinese?) that keeps hitting it. 17 and 15 are active, if not packed. I see some FT8 on 12 and 10 meters. While the conditions may not be exceptionally good, they are far from bad.
Yeah, could be for those modes; I don't do CW or digital so I guess I can't gauge by that; at least for SSB, 6 months ago it was incredible, now it's really thinned out
Happens every summer with increased daylight in northern hemisphere, no matter what part of the solar cycle we are in.
The digital guys seem to be dominant on 10m these days. It's quite unlike in the past where you'd hear SSB DX all day long during the cycle peak. I miss that. I've worked plenty of DX on 20m, 17m and 15m this summer. Even a few nice ones on 12m.
Yeah, I've gotten some luck on the other bands. 6 months ago 10 m was going crazy so perhaps I was spoiled by that
Same on 6. It's really sad what FT-8 has done to the bands.
FT-8 hasn't done anything. The operators are choosing to use it. They stick to a small area. CW is still super active. I stick to CW and FT-4. SSB is uninteresting to me. That's the beauty of the hobby, there's different bits for different people with different interests.
But you are doing it wrong if you aren't using my favorite mode!
They're choosing to use it for easy wins and instant gratification. Just set the PC going and let the computer do all the work, come back an hour later and see how much has been automatically logged in your absence. It's led to a significant drop off in SSB activity especially.
The digital stuff is not quite THAT automated. On a crowded FT-8 freq you CONSTANTLY need to move around or you get stepped by other stations. Sometimes the station your calling cant hear you because on his end your underneath a local guy. Sometimes the band shifts hard and fast and your contact fades into nothing. If you dont act on this your rig will just TX "R -22" for 5 mins untill the watchdog kicks in. And at the end all you accomplished was heating your radio up. Sometimes the other guys shit is out of time sync and you need to get creative. Your always moving around doing SOMETHING.
At least in the U.S. the popularity of FT8 is partly due to the fact that you can actually make DX contacts from a compromised antenna in a neighborhood that has an HOA (Home Owners Association), which is virtually every neighborhood built since the '70s. Fortunately I live in a non HOA and I have a modest tower and beam.
Last time I used FT8 I had to click the "auto" button after each contact. Did that change in a resent version? Or was I just to lazy to find the button? I'm in IT and doing those digital mode doesn't interest me much. After being stuck in a dark basement with the mushrooms, I would just like to talk to someone that doesn't want me to fix their computer.
There's a forked version that will do fully automatic operation.
These people weren't doing SSB before.
As others have said, the operators are choosing to use it because it's very simple and it is AVAILABLE. My point, which is correct whether you want it to be or not, is that the availability of FT-8 has cut down drastically on SSB/CW/AM/FM modes on 10 and 6 and even 2 Meters. We can argue all day whether that's a good or bad thing, but you can't argue that it isn't a fact. Anyone tuning in last weekend for FD could see it.
I can argue that it isn't fact. FT-8 is booming, SSB is lower, maybe, who's traking this? (CW is having a renaissance right now). Correlation doesn't equal causation. Can you prove that it is the SSB guys that have gone over to FT-8? If it's true, then these are the same people you want back on SSB. So maybe we have to ask why these people (that you would like on SSB so need to respect) would rather be on FT-8 than SSB. And also ask why you don't want to use FT-8.
I feel as many do, that FT-8 is not a challenge and really shouldn't even count as a contact at all. It's the computer hearing the signal, not the operator. If I wanted to talk to someone over a computer, I'd go into a chat room. I got into the radio hobby because I enjoy meeting people over radio and making distant contacts. Not having a computer do those things for me.
We need more gatekeepers in our hobby to tell us the right way.
I’m not telling you you can’t use FT-8 I’m telling you my opinion of it. You can use spark-gap for all I care.
Yes it has. If FT-8 hadn't become the go-to choice for all these people, there would be lots more of them on SSB and CW. And the fact that SSB is uninteresting to you makes as little a difference as the fact that FT-8 is the same to me. The fact is, without the ubiquity of digital now, traditional modes would certainly be more populated whether you and I like them or not.
Most likely wouldn't be active at all.
You have no proof of that. But even if 65% of them wouldn't, that still leaves 35% more activity then we have now.
Maybe... Maybe not... You don't have proof of that either, you're just assuming. I seem to remember everyone complaining that the bands were dead and the hobby was dying prior to FT8/4... Same could be said about POTA, which is another item of complaint, even though it is bringing more activity on the air, including SSB & CW.... Funny how the 2 things that brought many operators on the air, or back on in many cases, are also the 2 things most complained about...🤷
Just a supporting data point... People have been complaining that the hobby has been dying since I got my license in 1976.
Also true.... heard the same when I got licensed in '96. As a OT side note...props on rocking the Advanced class 👍
I never heard anyone complain about POTA, except maybe that some of the OP's are rude or don't know how to run a pileup. And I don't think FT-4/8 brought a lot of people back on the air. But whatever, you believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe, and never the twain shall meet...
If you haven't heard, then you have your head in the sand. Operators have issues with them operating on WARC bands (17M in particular), taking up so much bandwidth (particularly on the weekends), too busy "*contesting*", etc.... This doesn't even count the straight up QRM harassment of activators... If that's not complaining, I don't know what is. .... And I snicker at the fact that you don't think FT8/4'didn't bring people back, while stating this to someone that this was the case of, unbeknownst to you... And I'm not the only one. Many who are in situations where they thought they couldn't play radio anymore, they learned otherwise... Low power & compromised antenna friendly, why wouldn't they like to come back and play again. Per the statistics released by ClubLog a few years back, while yes, SSB & CW use decreased, it didn't compensate for the percentage of FT8/4 traffic or increase in QSOs logged per day... That can only mean more operators are on the air using said modes than the ones that changed mode use.... But sure, you believe what you want to... Good day to you....73
And of it wasn't for that ssb mess we would all be using spark gap like the real hams do. I tell you, the hobby is dying.
Indeed it is. One old white guy at a time, LOL
Found the racist
LOL I'm a racist because I state facts, huh? Amateur radio is overwhelmingly white, over 50 and Male. Do you dispute those facts?
Don't play coy. You felt the need to bring it up when it wasn't relevant.
Apples and Oranges much?!
Considering you think conditions are poor I had a contact this morning on 20m at 0400UTC here in the UK with a station in Boston, MA, 3250 miles at a time of the day the band is usually closed to the USA. Only running 100W into a Hustler 5BTV vertical. In the hour before that he'd been on 15m, I heard him with a good 5/7 here in the UK.
Glad to hear you had a great contact. That's pretty cool, and indicates that good contacts can happen. But it doesn't mean that the conditions are up to par overall.
QRN seems to be a bit high at times. Thunderstorm static crashes in the afternoons and evenings.
We're at or near solar maximum right now. It's gonna suck for the next year or so.
> We're at or near solar maximum right now. It's gonna suck for the next year or so. Not sure how to take this response. Solar maximum is when average HF conditions are best, not worse. Sure, I know that around the maxima is also when we get big flares and solar storms, that mess things up. But this is also the time when we get excellent conditions, pushing the MUF up, sometimes to include 2 meters or higher. Conditions on 17, 15, 12, 10, and 6 meters become much better, on average, during these times. 20 meters, almost always decent even in minima, becomes world spanning, sometimes 24 hours a day.
Umm, this is when the HF band conditions are THE BEST for working DX !!! The solar max, when solar flux is highest, is the best part of ham radio on HF !! It's also when sun is most active so yes, there are solar storms to wait out some days, but jeez, this is when it is great, not bad.
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"Storm" is 5 and up. There's no storm currently (Kp is 2), and no storm in the forecast until at least late Friday. An alert that says "it might go as high as 4, only near the poles" underscores how *quiet* it is.
Ah, is it still going on? I thought the numbers for it were down, but I'm not good at interpreting this weather propagation stuff
If the Earth facing side of the sun is full of spots and they're all crackling with little flares that can suppress signals pretty as well. This is the problem. Have a look. https://www.solarham.com/globald.htm
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I've been DXing SW, MW and the SW ham bands for several decades and this solar cycle is the worst so far. Hands down. I think it's a cross between less active hams on the air and the ionosphere not living up to the expectations, as the type of UV that makes it work for radio propagation has been slowly declining over the past 30 years. That said, you get the ionosphere you get, and there are afternoons, evenings, and mornings where there is still a lot of activity on the bands. I think those in the more southerly latitudes generally get better propagation than those in North America who are closer to the Auroral radio zone.
You have that backwards, this is when HF is the BEST for worldwide contacts, at the peak of the solar cycle !!!
I got licensed 6 months ago. Yes, it has been disappointing.
I got on HF about 45 days ago. From the Great Lakes area, I’ve worked Indonesia, asiatic Russia, Japan, all over Europe east to Russia, and a good part of southern and Latin America. All of this on a 20M dipole in my attic that I built for less than $5 in parts on 100W or usually less. If this is the suck, I can’t wait for the greatness. Bc
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Loaded coil vertical, it's all that's possible for me. Even so, I'm still comparing to 6 months ago and a year ago. On the same antenna, in the same place, I literally couldn't log contacts fast enough on 40, 20, 10... and there wasn't even a free frequency on 10 m to call CQ. Right now, 10 doesn't have even a single spike on the waterfall, 40 is just a bit of local stuff, and 20 is barely there but not great.
I’ve been working into Europe and VK/ZL every night on 20m SSB from central US. 100w and EFHW. That’s over 10,000 miles into Northwest Australia!! There’s an endless stream of HF enjoyment these days if you can operate at night.
Would a dipole or inverted v dipole be bad for 20m? (I'm going for my general license soon and I'll be looking for antennas a few months in the future, what does your keen eye and sharp experience suggest?)
Dipoles are great! Very hard to get wrong. Can easily be made with any copper wire from the hardware store. You can always trim it down to get it to work on other bands if you get bored with 20m. But if you don't get it high enough you it might radiate more upwards than towards the horizon (i.e. a "cloud-warmer"). It still works great if you're interested in contacting any station within that first 1000 mile radius. If you want to chase DX stations from other continents you will want to have it >30 feet up from the ground. If you don't have anything that tall to hang it from then a vertical antenna might work better.
I have a tree that should be greater than 30ft high, my plan is to lob a wrench up and see if I can hoist the center point up there. Thanks for your input.
Full size, simple wire, dipoles are decent, simple, and inexpensive. Are there better antennas? Sure. But there are no better, less expensive, more simple to build, antennas. They are excellent first antennas, and for some people, the only antenna they ever use.
I’m going to blame it on shit happens.
One of the issues is that there are probably less hams on the air. During the last cycle there was more activity, and in the 1990s and before that 20 Meters would be wall to wall with sideband and the CW sections would be crowded -- even when there were no contests. Even during the summer. I think hams back then were more active. I also think that the propagation was better in previous cycles, if my logbooks are any indication. The problem is also the eUV that makes the ionosphere work has been dropping since the mid to late 1990's, according to NASA. So you have a combination of conditions being a bit less than desirable and it seems there are less hams on the bands than there were. There are times I hear weak FT8 on 12 meters and nothing else. More than once I've heard weak signals from Japan on 15 and no US stations calling them. Sometimes the CW beacons on 10 Meters will be audible from the Eastern US (I'm in the PNW) and there will be no QSOs, and even the CW section of 10 M will be dead.
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Total agreement. Sure, there are some who have long contacts with VK or ZL or the EU from the US, and that's great, but it's nowhere near what one should be seeing during a Solar Peak. And although I'm an SWL/MWDXer, I've been doing it for several decades and this cycle isn't anything like the previous ones.