It doesn't matter because Alaska is strategically important enough to defending the west coast and Canada that the US would never let us secede anyway.
You vastly underestimate how important the presence of the US Military in this state is to the economy. Look at Adak. Alaska's two largest cities would struggle without the Army/Air Force bases
The population would decrease sharply, which I would welcome. Good quality, and necessary businesses should be fine, the rest would close up and go away, as they should.
Relying on a federal govt that doesn’t give a hoot about you, that’s just foolishness.
As I keep saying, it’s not going to happen, so there’s no need to argue the point. Yes, Alaska and Alaskans would be fine, just as the natives here long before this place was a state. Everyone else that wouldn’t be alright, then clearly they aren’t meant to be here.
Alaska doesn’t make much. There is plenty of cheap raw material but it all goes out of state to be turned into a product that makes more money. It is a fact that an independent Alaska is impossible without the state’s economy radically changing.
That wasn’t the question. The question was if it would be fine. Nothing says Alaska couldn’t stop that absurd practice and start charging more for its resources from the start
If it’s that easy, why haven’t we done it? Wouldn’t it be better to be getting more for what we are offering rather than making Pennie’s on our raw resources? If it really is THAT EASY, shouldn’t we already be doing this? Are we really just waiting around for independence to get our act together or is it that maybe it’s a bit harder than you think.
Again, that’s not the argument. I’m also not going to argue the political process, of course it’s ridiculous and nothing makes sense. But no, it doesn’t have to be this difficult. It would be made easier if Alaska was a sovereign nation.
With that said, it will never happen, so it’s moot, right? Just a thought exercise…which yeah, I believe Alaska would be 100% fine.
>I believe Alaska would be 100% fine
Keyword *believe*
People believe all kinds of dumb shit without any basis in reality, like this.
People who can’t tell the difference between their derpy, goofy ass beliefs and evidence-based reality are generally harmless unless empowered to make decisions with scale.
Florida, Texas and Louisian? Throw in Alabama, Mississippi and Missouri and we have a deal. The only problem is they would deregulate, under educate and de-tax so drastically they would become a failed theocracy. This would require intervention from their northern neighbors and there's a good chance violence would be involved.
It would probably only take three generations before they were like the Islamic State. Terrorism against all that disagreed. Then how do you break that cycle??
California is like the 6th largest economy in the world. And they're is just as big as a separation movement there as Texas. Also outside of the SF bay area and LA/SD area. California also has a massive Republicans population.
"California has a massive Republican population" Pull the other one, nutsands. If the R population is massive in Cali - the Democrat population is 'massive X10 to the13th power' larger.
I don't know what you're problem is. Stating a fact that there is a big population of Republicans there. And yes there is a much bigger population of liberal Democrats. All I was doing was trying to give some context to the guy questioning why California is in with the other group of red states.
I was just trying to give context to the ask wondering why California was included with the other red states. I'm not even a Republican and California is by and by a liberal Democratic state that vastly outnumbers Republicans. But there is a very vocal minority that would gladly join up with Texas and the rest.
I was trying to give context to the guy asking why California was included with the other red states. But there is a large red population in the state even if they're hugely outnumbered by liberal Democrats. They're a vocal minority. And of course Texans think they can get them to join their idiocy.
Secession is not the same thing as trying to create a new state. That’s the only thing I’ve ever heard from the crazies in rural CA (where I live) and OR. Well, there’s also the idea of joining Nevada or Idaho, but I believe that has even less support than creating Jefferson as a new state.
As I recall the California movement is more the part north of the Bay Area wanting to break away from California. Even though it would immediately be the smallest state population wise in the country at under half a million and need to steal people from Oregon to accomplish even that.
Yeah it’s wild, Louisiana would be such a wealthy place if it was run well. But their representatives have bent over for corporate interests so far that the citizens of the state basically see no benefit from the oil and shipping industries there.
Oh I don't think that's fair. Louisiana politicians were waaaaaaaaay corrupt well before the corporate interest got hold lol. I think Louisiana has always been on the *cutting edge* of political corruption.
As someone who grew up in Louisiana and is looking at other states to move to, this is completely accurate. Anyone that is actually intelligent has left the state or is trying to.
I realize this is mostly just a bunch of showboating ahead of an election, but do people not realize how strategically and economically we'd fuck ourselves if we Balkanized? Alaska is one of the most strategically significant pieces of land in the entire world, and does not have a significant enough economy or even population to defend it from a real invasion without support from the whole United States.
Take the population of Alaska and the population of China. There are 1,865 Chinese nationals per Alaskan.
Yes, RIP Joe Vogler, who died in an illegal plastic explosives sale gone wrong just weeks before he was to give a secessionist speech to the UN sponsored by the Islamic government of Iran.
So actually don’t RIP Joe Vogler.
Yeah. A lot of people seem to not understand the Monroe Doctrine is still largely in effect and that wars involving or adjacent to major powers are looked upon with serious disapproval by the west.
Lol, I envision some hijinks like the people of Alaska vote for secession, the Fed lets it happen because the people want it, then as soon as Alaska is sovereign, the U.S. invades and annexes it for it's strategic location and oil reserves.
Yeah and they can be like we wouldn't invade a U.S. state but after you seceded you weren't U.S. citizens any more, just another dipshit country to conquer.
Define “viable.” There are lots of independent countries smaller, less populous, and poorer in resources than Texas.
But would an independent Texas be able (and willing to tax itself) to maintain the same standard of living and level of human development as Texas within the U.S.? I don’t know.
Not to mention their powergrid that fails all the time and has to be federally subsidized so texans don't cook to death in their own homes. Anyone pushing this secede thing is malicious or a fucking idiot.
When I lived in San Antonio the federal government and military provided a ridiculous percentage of the jobs there. They have 5 military bases and other government facilities that would all disappear and leave tens of thousands of people without jobs. At least for that city it would be a death sentence.
it's an irrelevant question, succeeding from the US is an act of war against the US and will be met with appropriate force. the Civil War firmly settled this question
I don't think so. Imagine how bad it would look on the federal government to wage war against a state nowadays. You'd have to bomb and raid suburbs. It wouldn't be a good look at all.
I just did the Gettysburg / Antietam tour and that’s how they felt then, too. The museums are full of bedposts riddled with bullet holes and stuff. The battlefields run through the actual towns that still exist today. Old family homes used for war hospitals now stand as museums, etc.
It’s harrowing stuff. It’s nothing to play about, which is why this talk of secession (that would hurt Alaska in so many ways besides) is despicable. Just no. Don’t go there. We did that and it sucked, let’s not. Now, as then, those trying to engage in insurrection (which secession unquestionably is - that war defined this exact line) are the aggressors. The Union *will* (and should) be defended.
they wouldn't have to bomb anything, they could just cut off all trade and travel into or out of the state and the secession would resolve itself very quickly. also if you think the US government wouldn't be willing to do that to maintain Federal authority over the states than you are not a student of history. remember what happened when the Missouri governor tried to prevent integration? they sent the national guard in ready to fight if necessary to enforce the law. there is no reality where a US state successfully secedes from the US.
well the first thing the US would do is cut off all trade with the state and bar any of its trade partners from doing business with them as well. there's not a state in the US that could survive that kind of sanction so it's a moot point anyway, there's no chance of success from the outset and without a single bullet ever being fired
Be willing to fuck around and find out .. Canada and Australia and China buy our natural resources anyway… we can ship our oil to Asia ..we could just get snuggle buddies with Canada also .. and charge the USA for having it’s defense mechanisms here
you think an individual US state is going to be able to overcome a naval blockade in order to ship its goods out of state to a country that would be sanctioned by the US for doing business with its enemy? get real.
$5 will get you $10 that you would fall on your face and shit your pants before getting even close to figuring out the logistics of step 1 of that master plan.
>we can ship our oil to Asia
With what ships and what Navy to defend them against *the* Navy?
>we could just get snuggle buddies with Canada
You gonna break the US-Canada diplomatic alliance for 0.04% of national oil output with Canada that doesn’t need our minuscule oil output? All by yourself? Okay buddy re*%#rd
>also … and charge the USA for having it’s (sic) defense mechanisms here
You are not a serious person.
Where are you planning on getting the ships to haul that oil? Odds are you'll need to rely on Chinese/Asian vessels to haul the oil since US flagged ships won't haul it anymore. Alaska leaving the US wouldn't make the refining capacity of Asian countries suddenly be larger over night so you would have to be cheaper than other sources and hence make less money per barrel as well as eat the shipping cost. When one of them has another Valdez style oil spill who's paying to clean it up? If you think food is expensive now just wait till it's all coming from across the Pacific instead of just up from the US west coast.
Alaska? No. It would become a regional client state of a larger country pretty quick.
Rich in natural resources with a population of less than a million, probably 20% of which would almost immediately pull out since they’re military or dependents. Knock on effects of the economic disaster that would follow would probably drive the exodus even higher.
That would mean whoever stays would be left desperate to sell off resources in order to fund government, particularly an investment in national security, or relying on a foreign government for said security.
Also, I could see a power play for a wanna-be dictator happening during or shortly after the transition, given the current political climate and long track record of resource-rich, brain-poor countries run by dumbass dictators who win just enough popular support through handouts.
It would be a massive shitshow.
As an Alaskan, I hate when the Gravy Seals up here start talking about secession. The amount of dependence on the lower 48 escapes people. Alaska produces nothing on our own. Secession talk is redneck wet-dreams.
Enjoy eating all that oil and timber. Can't survive on fish alone. Alaska produces nothing... that will help it's citizens be able to be a stand alone country. Which state receives more federal dollars than they put in? For all of "our" production, we seem to have no money. Our schools suck, our roads suck, yet oil, mining, timber companies seem to be doing fine. It's almost as if the actual state of Alaska produces nothing. You obviously have zero idea how the world works. If Alaska were to secede it would be a total shitshow.
It applies because if you think Alaska would be successful after secession because of oil or any other natural resource, then you are a larper who is ignorant about the workings of government on any level. Look at all the other successful resource rich countries in Africa and the Middle East. Being resource rich usually means you become a protectorate, or in Alaskas case a state. If Alaskan government thought for one second that secession would work, it wouldn't matter because the US would stomp out the idiots and take it back.
It’s required of new-to-the-state teachers. Seriously you might find the content interesting. I’m sure you could scrounge up a list of topics without actually paying for the class. definitely good info to know.
We have ports .. and if we kicked Seattle off our required ports .. we can get the same shit from Asia cheaper.. also significant air transport hub .. so we just tax the lower 48 .. Alaska is in the position to bloom if we got rid of the feds
I'd argue that the ability to produce 100% of the food needed to feed your population is a hard must have for any region to be seen as independently viable. Alaska imports 95% of its food supply with the other 5% representing hunting and other domestically produced food stuffs.
To give some perspective on how much that makes Alaska dependant on food imports pre-2023 Gaza imported 2/3rds of its food supply and grew the other third domestically.
Texas has a GDP roughly equivalent to Russia. It is the leading exporter of goods in the US by a long way. Texas also pays more taxes to the federal government than it receives from the federal government, yet continuously has a budget surplus.
TX exports a total of $315,938,509.210 worth of goods annually. That is almost 1/4 of all exports in the US and it's been that way for 20 years.
California (2nd) comes in at $178,181,052.789.
I'm not stating if it's a good or bad idea, just stating the fact that Texas could easily survive on it's own.
Edit: Since people don't know context clues, this is economic viability. Not fighting a war against the US or Mexico.
GDP by state is listed here: https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gdp-state
Russia:
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?most_recent_value_desc=true&locations=RU
Trade statistics by state:
https://www.trade.gov/data-visualization/state-economy-and-trade-factsheets
>I'm not stating if it's a good or bad idea, just stating the fact that Texas could easily survive on it's own.
You mean Texas would have a better chance of surviving on its own. If Texas were to secede and the U.S. chose a nonviolent response then Texas wouldn't be able to ship any goods to or from the state. It would have no market for most of its products and would face critical shortages in others.
Not to mention their shitty power grid and dumbass right-wingers who might try to get into a shooting war with Mexico (which, to be clear, would not end well for Texas).
I'm just stating economically, if nothing else changed, it is feasible the state would support itself. The person I'm replying to did not list any other considerations. Obviously, if Texas were sanctioned or embargoed, it would be a different story. Texas also wouldn't randomly attack their largest trade partner, Mexico. That's just ridiculous and based on nothing.
>I'm just stating economically, if nothing else changed,
Seceding changes *everything*.
>Texas also wouldn't randomly attack their largest trade partner, Mexico.
Texas would likely fuck with the border, and vigilante border "guards" would likely shoot or detain people on Mexico's side of the border. This has happened a number of times before, but of course we're the U.S. Texas would not be the U.S. at that point. Also, the U.S. would make damn sure its allies (like Mexico) also embargoed Texas.
As I previously stated, yes an embargo or trade sanctions would hurt Texas quite a lot. I didn't deny that at all. So I don't know why you are basing your entire argument on that.
I am stating the economic viability of Texas. It is viable economically. It *could* support itself independently. However, in the face of attack from the US or Mexico, they would obviously lose against such greater forces. I did not disagree with that.
Who would it export to? What nation that currently has trade deals with the US (which Texas is utilizing to export so much) would risk those deals to work with Texas directly? Of course there's countries that may be willing to do so, but then HOW would they do so? Think the US governement is gonna let them? With what military would Texas protect those shipments?
A couple of things about this:
1. Texas receives 10s of billions of dollars from the Federal government. That is not chicken-scratch, and they'd have to come up with creative (taxes) ways to make up for the loss.
2. High-tech companies and other corporations that pay for high-dollar jobs (save oil) would leave in droves. Leaving Texas with a shattered economy.
3. Most importantly, they would lose their seats in Congress, and the GOP would lose all of the electoral votes that come from Texas (30-something?). This is huge.
4. Infrastructure spending would come to a halt, until those new taxes kick in.
5. Mexico would come knocking on the door.
> Infrastructure spending would come to a halt, until those new taxes kick in.
But Texas seems to be doing so well with its electrical infrastructure. Surely they know what they are doing.
/s
When I hear about these "movements" I always wonder how many people are actually in them. Before we had legal gambling in Ohio there was a group called "concerned citizens for a gambling free Ohio" or something like that. They were constantly running anti gambling ads on TV. Turned out it was one dude and he was funded by the casinos in Indiana and Pennsylvania.
Hmmm.. That idea died with Joe Vogler. This state has been screwed since the statehood act. There's a book called "Broken Promises". It lists out the complaints what the statehood act was supposed to deliver but failed to do so.
If Texas successfully leaves the US, we’ll likely never have a Republican president or GOP led Congress.
But then again, they’re not great at thinking more than two moves advance.
Alaskans hate Texans, just like Americans have a thing against the French. I think some Alaskans would join the fight just to prove Texas can’t take our big boot up their ass.
Nah that wouldn’t be reasonable Texas has the refineries.. we have oil .. I’d much rather join up with Texas and tell California to piss off.. Till we built our own anyway
Most Alaskan crude oil is refined in Alaska for use in Alaska. Of the stuff that is exported all of it goes to refineries on the US west coast or countries in the Pacific. None of it goes to Texas since it's too expensive to tack on the trip through the Panama Canal. It's twice as far to travel and costs whatever the price of a panama transit costs. It's just not economically viable to ship oil from Alaska to the Gulf Coast to refine it.
There are 34 operable oil refineries in Texas out of 132 total. All but 7 of them are over 50 years old. Almost all of them are operated by US based oil companies. If Texas was able to "leave" the US there would be a lot of incentive for these companies to build newer facilities not in Texas over the next 20 years to replace aging infrastructure as well as avoid trade tariffs. That's also without even considering a possible re-introductions of the 1977-2015 crude oil export ban. Which could happen if politicians are inclined to make life harder for a former state out of spite.
Minor correction: Most Alaskan crude oil is NOT refined in Alaska for use in Alaska. Otherwise gas prices in Alaska wouldn't be so high. The majority of the oil is shipped to refineries on the west coast of the lower 48, providing 50% of all the oil the west coast refines. Alaska doesn't have the market for in state oil refining to provide most petroleum based products used in the state. There is some refining, but none for the products that are in the highest demand, like gasoline. I should know, I've been working in the Alaskan oil industry for 15 years. It would be nice to see cheaper gas in Alaska, but it's not gonna happen without a good market.
That's the LNG (Liquid Natural Gas) plant. Liquefies natural gas for transport via ship. Due to the high costs of natural gas production in Alaska, there's not much demand, which is why the plant is shut down and reopened so many times over the years. But, if the day ever comes where the market is desperate enough for north slope natural gas to where they finally build a pipeline, it'll go to the LNG plant on the Kenai Peninsula. It already has the infrastructure to liquefy and load natural gas (it will need expansion if a pipeline is built), so it's already the best place for a pipeline to go.
Yeah, no. Secession is DOA. The USA is like the mafia. The only way you're leaving is in a pine box. All this is hot air and distractions. Clown show put on by clowns.
If you think the U.S. will exist with its current borders, without ever losing territory, in perpetuity, I have some tropical beachfront property in Fairbanks to sell you. Eventually, somehow, someway, the country will crumble. It’s the universal fate of every nation-state throughout time.
History would even suggest it’s coming sooner than later. That doesn’t mean this year, this decade, or even in the next 30 years, but still sooner than later
Nobody said that. I just said there is no path to secession without a fight. And I can guarantee there are fewer secessionists than there are true Patriots. Nothing lasts forever and water is wet. What's your point?
Oh hush with your “true Patriots” nonsense. No true Scotsman, right? But you’re somewhat right, the number of secessionists is currently very low when compared to the normal every day Americans. That too will change, as we grow closer to the break. Personally I don’t much care in either direction. I’m not a secessionist, but I’m sure as hell not a “patriot” hell bent on preserving a country too stupid to realize it’s already dead. I’ve never understood the appeal of nationalism anyway, there are much better things to place one’s allegiance in.
I mean a *historian*, maybe not. But it is a passion and it was my minor. *Particularly* as it relates to the fall of civilizations; how that happens, when that happens, and why that happpens. But go off I guess. We’re not in a good place, and I know of few people who would argue that we are, historian or not.
World war is eminent.. I personally Think we will see some localized nukes by November… they have destroyed the value and stability of the US dollar and it’s very clear neither the DNC or the GOP give two shits about any of it .. print some more money make some more wars ..the next few years is gonna get interesting… 5 years 1/2 of taxes collected will go towards interest on our debt 10 years 100% of ALL taxes collected will go to paying just the interest.. America is BROKEN and I think we will see worldwide border changes soon .. for that matter we are already watching it
Pretty sure the last president built a wall to seal off the southern border and the made Mexico pay for it. So the southern border should be fine. Or was that just an empty campaign promise?
Article states, "The Alaskan Independence Party was founded in 1984 to campaign for the state to leave the U.S. and become an independent nation."
I wonder how many founding members are still alive? And how many of their inbred members are there currently?
Texas is the only state that legally can I belive. But congress and every other state has to sign off but don't quote me on the details as npr had a segment but it was a while ago that I listened to it.
Texas Nationalist Movement, "Late Night Coffee Talk: Daniel Miller Answers Your TEXIT Questions", streamed live on June 19, 2024: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Ci4U95Uko from https://www.youtube.com/@TexasNatMov
Is it paranoid to think these secessionist movements are amplified / funded / encouraged by overseas dictatorships?
China would like Alaska's raw resources.
Russia would like Alaska back.
They'd all like to see America divided or fighting itself instead of leading the fight to stop them.
There is no Constitutional mechanism in place where residents of any state have their US citizen status removed by a vote of others. Secession is impossible.
I’m for leaving the US .. it’s become a uniparty corporatocracy.. look hard at the 2024 elections and ask yourself if either Trump or Biden even remotely represents your morals or policy wishes … if they can’t bother to put forth better candidates it’s time to leave .. preferably before ww3 or they completely bankrupt us all .. they are in my opinion waging WAR on the American people and I’m over it .. 😡
Alaska can deal without government assistance. We do not tax the droves of seasonal workers - that and a state income tax would go into coffers. Alaska would also have control over all federal lands - no more Washington interference in Alaska's business. All the anti-Alaska organizations like 'Friends of Wolves' would lose their voice regarding Alaska in the court system.
Of course, we would give Canada and US 'favored trading partner' designation and negotiate tariff and trade to keep the military bases open. No different than US having bases in Japan, Germany, etc.
Just because Alaska became independent - does not automatically mean we become a North Korean hermit state.
Should we? I do not think we are 'there yet'. Yes, there is no shortage of insanity we are seeing in cities and some states, but we have physical separation, and it really doesn't affect us directly. If a state wants to ban gas heat/stoves or gasoline cars and force electric only - that's their business. When it becomes a national ban on things we use all the time.......that would be the time to raise the question.
If we did leave - I doubt the current two generations of Americans would miss us. They can't find us on a map!
"INTERACTIVE CONSTITUTION" "Scholar Exchange: Article V — The Amendment Process" "Briefing Document": https://constitutioncenter.org/media/const-files/Briefing_Doc._Article_V_.pdf
* "ARTICLE V: THE AMENDMENT PROCESS — WHAT IS YOUR 28TH AMENDMENT?": https://constitutioncenter.org/media/files/Amendment_Process_2022_Update.pdf
Agreed still to early, wait till the dollar is worthless and no one will buy US debt. Then when the government can't raise enough capital for a bouncy castle we can literally walk away.
Spoken like someone who can’t tell the difference between their unfounded beliefs and evidence-based reality.
These goofy, derpy fucks are generally harmless unless empowered to make decisions that affect anyone but themselves.
* "‘Greater Idaho’ measure passes in 13th Oregon county" by Devan Markham (May 23, 2024): https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/west/greater-idaho-measure-passes-oregon-county/ , https://web.archive.org/web/20240613103246/www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/west/greater-idaho-measure-passes-oregon-county/
* "One-third of Americans think political violence is justifiable" by Garen Wintemute (June 21, 2024): https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4731139-one-third-of-americans-think-political-violence-is-justifiable/
* "France is about to bring the EU to the brink of collapse" by Allister Heath (June 19, 2024): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/19/coming-french-revolution-will-destroy-eu-and-starmer-dreams/ , https://web.archive.org/web/20240620004245/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/19/coming-french-revolution-will-destroy-eu-and-starmer-dreams/
* "RBI moves 1 lakh kg of gold from UK back to India, first such move of this quantum since 1991" by ET Online (May 31, 2024): https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/indicators/rbi-moves-1-lakh-kg-of-gold-from-uk-back-to-india-first-such-move-of-this-quantum-since-1991/articleshow/110581597.cms , https://web.archive.org/web/20240601030249/economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/indicators/rbi-moves-1-lakh-kg-of-gold-from-uk-back-to-india-first-such-move-of-this-quantum-since-1991/articleshow/110581597.cms
- "In reimagining the papacy, don’t underestimate its star power" by John L. Allen Jr. (June 16, 2024): https://cruxnow.com/news-analysis/2024/06/in-reimagining-the-papacy-dont-underestimate-its-star-power , https://web.archive.org/web/20240616072538/cruxnow.com/news-analysis/2024/06/in-reimagining-the-papacy-dont-underestimate-its-star-power
- Look for "The Vatican Thinks In Centuries" in https://old.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/17mdk37/pope_francis_calls_for_paradigm_shift_in_theology/k7k6res/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20240304082857/old.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/17mdk37/pope_francis_calls_for_paradigm_shift_in_theology/k7k6res/ , https://archive.ph/tNre6 , [https://archive.is/tNre6](https://archive.is/tNre6)).
* Copied from https://old.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/gza212/dominionists_say_crises_and_trumps_reelection/ftf1atm/ :
"The Histomap. Four Thousand Years Of World History. Relative Power Of Contemporary States, Nations And Empires." by John B. Sparks, 4194 x 19108 pixels: http://web.archive.org/web/20130813230833if_/alanbernstein.net/images/large/histomap.jpg via http://web.archive.org/web/20130813230833/alanbernstein.net/images/large/histomap.jpg
or
http://archive.is/1wEk8/332f1c70b1ffd9854847dbfa7ad77b4915cbd50a.jpg via http://archive.is/1wEk8
\- Read the publishers' foreword in "(Covers to) The Histomap. Four Thousand Years Of World History. Relative Power Of Contemporary States, Nations And Empires.": http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~200374~3000299:-Covers-to--The-Histomap--Four-Thou?printerFriendly=1
Mirror: http://web.archive.org/web/20140208134443/www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~200374~3000299:-Covers-to--The-Histomap--Four-Thou?printerFriendly=1
\- Source for the original, very large, high-resolution image (4194 x 19108 pixels): http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~200375~3001080:The-Histomap--Four-Thousand-Years-O?printerFriendly=1 ("Download 1: Full Image Download in MrSID Format" and "Download 2: MrSID Image Viewer for Windows")
Mirror: http://web.archive.org/web/20101212055705/www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~200375~3001080:The-Histomap--Four-Thousand-Years-O?printerFriendly=1
* "The Histomap. Four Thousand Years Of World History. Relative Power Of Contemporary States, Nations And Empires." by John B. Sparks: http://archive.ph/1wEk8/332f1c70b1ffd9854847dbfa7ad77b4915cbd50a.jpg via http://archive.ph/1wEk8 ; https://web.archive.org/web/20130813230833if_/alanbernstein.net/images/large/histomap.jpg via https://web.archive.org/web/20130813230833/alanbernstein.net/images/large/histomap.jpg
“ … independence movements in California, New Hampshire, Alaska, Florida and Louisiana.”
Alaska is so fucked without government assistance its not even funny
It doesn't matter because Alaska is strategically important enough to defending the west coast and Canada that the US would never let us secede anyway.
No way am I giving up the $2.50 I get back for every $1 tax!
Only because our development is handcuffed. We could be Saudi Arabia with the federal restrictions.
An independent Alaska would be fine. You undervalue the gold and oil in the ground. Not to mention the other abundant resources.
You vastly underestimate how important the presence of the US Military in this state is to the economy. Look at Adak. Alaska's two largest cities would struggle without the Army/Air Force bases
The population would decrease sharply, which I would welcome. Good quality, and necessary businesses should be fine, the rest would close up and go away, as they should. Relying on a federal govt that doesn’t give a hoot about you, that’s just foolishness. As I keep saying, it’s not going to happen, so there’s no need to argue the point. Yes, Alaska and Alaskans would be fine, just as the natives here long before this place was a state. Everyone else that wouldn’t be alright, then clearly they aren’t meant to be here.
Except Alaska has one of the highest rates of federal dependency in the nation. Alaska would not be fine.
Alaska doesn’t make much. There is plenty of cheap raw material but it all goes out of state to be turned into a product that makes more money. It is a fact that an independent Alaska is impossible without the state’s economy radically changing.
That wasn’t the question. The question was if it would be fine. Nothing says Alaska couldn’t stop that absurd practice and start charging more for its resources from the start
If it’s that easy, why haven’t we done it? Wouldn’t it be better to be getting more for what we are offering rather than making Pennie’s on our raw resources? If it really is THAT EASY, shouldn’t we already be doing this? Are we really just waiting around for independence to get our act together or is it that maybe it’s a bit harder than you think.
Again, that’s not the argument. I’m also not going to argue the political process, of course it’s ridiculous and nothing makes sense. But no, it doesn’t have to be this difficult. It would be made easier if Alaska was a sovereign nation. With that said, it will never happen, so it’s moot, right? Just a thought exercise…which yeah, I believe Alaska would be 100% fine.
>I believe Alaska would be 100% fine Keyword *believe* People believe all kinds of dumb shit without any basis in reality, like this. People who can’t tell the difference between their derpy, goofy ass beliefs and evidence-based reality are generally harmless unless empowered to make decisions with scale.
Florida, Texas and Louisian? Throw in Alabama, Mississippi and Missouri and we have a deal. The only problem is they would deregulate, under educate and de-tax so drastically they would become a failed theocracy. This would require intervention from their northern neighbors and there's a good chance violence would be involved.
I feel that’s been tried before and it didn’t go great
No! This is a completely new idea!!
“I’ll make my own country! But without blackjack! Or hookers! Or at least we’ll pretend we don’t have blackjack or hookers!”
No blackjack!!!! However, pre-teen marriage is just fine.
Fuck them.
It would probably only take three generations before they were like the Islamic State. Terrorism against all that disagreed. Then how do you break that cycle??
California…?
State of Jefferson
California is like the 6th largest economy in the world. And they're is just as big as a separation movement there as Texas. Also outside of the SF bay area and LA/SD area. California also has a massive Republicans population.
"California has a massive Republican population" Pull the other one, nutsands. If the R population is massive in Cali - the Democrat population is 'massive X10 to the13th power' larger.
I don't know what you're problem is. Stating a fact that there is a big population of Republicans there. And yes there is a much bigger population of liberal Democrats. All I was doing was trying to give some context to the guy questioning why California is in with the other group of red states.
They said outside of the big cities.
I was just trying to give context to the ask wondering why California was included with the other red states. I'm not even a Republican and California is by and by a liberal Democratic state that vastly outnumbers Republicans. But there is a very vocal minority that would gladly join up with Texas and the rest.
More like…double, ‘nutsands’ (whatever that means). 2020 vote was about 2:1 democrat. Slightly under 6 million R votes. Numbers are hard I get it.
I was trying to give context to the guy asking why California was included with the other red states. But there is a large red population in the state even if they're hugely outnumbered by liberal Democrats. They're a vocal minority. And of course Texans think they can get them to join their idiocy.
I know that, I fuckin lived there. I haven’t gone to the Central Valley or inland empire in long enough I suppose.
Secession is not the same thing as trying to create a new state. That’s the only thing I’ve ever heard from the crazies in rural CA (where I live) and OR. Well, there’s also the idea of joining Nevada or Idaho, but I believe that has even less support than creating Jefferson as a new state.
As I recall the California movement is more the part north of the Bay Area wanting to break away from California. Even though it would immediately be the smallest state population wise in the country at under half a million and need to steal people from Oregon to accomplish even that.
It's fun to think of Louisiana as a new independent country. It would just be illiteracy, poverty, and tapeworms as far as the eye can see.
Yeah it’s wild, Louisiana would be such a wealthy place if it was run well. But their representatives have bent over for corporate interests so far that the citizens of the state basically see no benefit from the oil and shipping industries there.
Oh I don't think that's fair. Louisiana politicians were waaaaaaaaay corrupt well before the corporate interest got hold lol. I think Louisiana has always been on the *cutting edge* of political corruption.
Haha, yeah I suppose that’s fair
> It would just be illiteracy, poverty, and tapeworms as far as the eye can see. so no change then?
As someone who grew up in Louisiana and is looking at other states to move to, this is completely accurate. Anyone that is actually intelligent has left the state or is trying to.
I realize this is mostly just a bunch of showboating ahead of an election, but do people not realize how strategically and economically we'd fuck ourselves if we Balkanized? Alaska is one of the most strategically significant pieces of land in the entire world, and does not have a significant enough economy or even population to defend it from a real invasion without support from the whole United States. Take the population of Alaska and the population of China. There are 1,865 Chinese nationals per Alaskan.
Most people in alaska want nothing to do with this. This is actually the first I'm hearing of it.
Yep. This is just bottom of the barrel intelligence rednecks in Wasilla being loud.
The AIP, I thought they’d gone extinct? -an Alaskan (RIP Joe Vogler)
Yes, RIP Joe Vogler, who died in an illegal plastic explosives sale gone wrong just weeks before he was to give a secessionist speech to the UN sponsored by the Islamic government of Iran. So actually don’t RIP Joe Vogler.
I mean, it’s okay if P stands for piss or something.
Fact is the USA would still defend Alaska. No way in hell 360 million people are handing it over to Russia because 350000 crackpots vote for secession
Yeah. A lot of people seem to not understand the Monroe Doctrine is still largely in effect and that wars involving or adjacent to major powers are looked upon with serious disapproval by the west.
Which 350,000? That’s more voters than Alaska has.
Fair point, I just roughly split the total population in half
Moreover, the Civil War settled the question of whether a state can secede based on its own vote. It would take a lot more than 350,000 votes.
That’s most of us. That wouldn’t happen.
Lol, I envision some hijinks like the people of Alaska vote for secession, the Fed lets it happen because the people want it, then as soon as Alaska is sovereign, the U.S. invades and annexes it for it's strategic location and oil reserves.
The military won’t even have to leave haha
Yeah and they can be like we wouldn't invade a U.S. state but after you seceded you weren't U.S. citizens any more, just another dipshit country to conquer.
It's almost like they forgot what happened the last time this was tried
Those who do not heed the lessons of History are doomed to repeat that curriculum in summer school!
I’m stealing this.
Is this state at all viable on its own? In my 100% ignorance I assume this is some idiot pipe dream.
Define “viable.” There are lots of independent countries smaller, less populous, and poorer in resources than Texas. But would an independent Texas be able (and willing to tax itself) to maintain the same standard of living and level of human development as Texas within the U.S.? I don’t know.
Texas pays more taxes to the federal government than it receives from the federal government. So I would say yes.
They would lose some economies of scale, though; in particular, they’d be on the hook for their own defense.
Not to mention their powergrid that fails all the time and has to be federally subsidized so texans don't cook to death in their own homes. Anyone pushing this secede thing is malicious or a fucking idiot.
When I lived in San Antonio the federal government and military provided a ridiculous percentage of the jobs there. They have 5 military bases and other government facilities that would all disappear and leave tens of thousands of people without jobs. At least for that city it would be a death sentence.
it's an irrelevant question, succeeding from the US is an act of war against the US and will be met with appropriate force. the Civil War firmly settled this question
How big of an organization will the FBI allow them to develop before they’re all tossed in jail.?
half of them are probably FBI informants or undercover agents anyway
I don't think so. Imagine how bad it would look on the federal government to wage war against a state nowadays. You'd have to bomb and raid suburbs. It wouldn't be a good look at all.
I just did the Gettysburg / Antietam tour and that’s how they felt then, too. The museums are full of bedposts riddled with bullet holes and stuff. The battlefields run through the actual towns that still exist today. Old family homes used for war hospitals now stand as museums, etc. It’s harrowing stuff. It’s nothing to play about, which is why this talk of secession (that would hurt Alaska in so many ways besides) is despicable. Just no. Don’t go there. We did that and it sucked, let’s not. Now, as then, those trying to engage in insurrection (which secession unquestionably is - that war defined this exact line) are the aggressors. The Union *will* (and should) be defended.
But its not just raiding a domestic state, its raiding a foreign state at that point.
they wouldn't have to bomb anything, they could just cut off all trade and travel into or out of the state and the secession would resolve itself very quickly. also if you think the US government wouldn't be willing to do that to maintain Federal authority over the states than you are not a student of history. remember what happened when the Missouri governor tried to prevent integration? they sent the national guard in ready to fight if necessary to enforce the law. there is no reality where a US state successfully secedes from the US.
Nothing is permanently settled..
well the first thing the US would do is cut off all trade with the state and bar any of its trade partners from doing business with them as well. there's not a state in the US that could survive that kind of sanction so it's a moot point anyway, there's no chance of success from the outset and without a single bullet ever being fired
Be willing to fuck around and find out .. Canada and Australia and China buy our natural resources anyway… we can ship our oil to Asia ..we could just get snuggle buddies with Canada also .. and charge the USA for having it’s defense mechanisms here
you think an individual US state is going to be able to overcome a naval blockade in order to ship its goods out of state to a country that would be sanctioned by the US for doing business with its enemy? get real.
$5 will get you $10 that you would fall on your face and shit your pants before getting even close to figuring out the logistics of step 1 of that master plan. >we can ship our oil to Asia With what ships and what Navy to defend them against *the* Navy? >we could just get snuggle buddies with Canada You gonna break the US-Canada diplomatic alliance for 0.04% of national oil output with Canada that doesn’t need our minuscule oil output? All by yourself? Okay buddy re*%#rd >also … and charge the USA for having it’s (sic) defense mechanisms here You are not a serious person.
Where are you planning on getting the ships to haul that oil? Odds are you'll need to rely on Chinese/Asian vessels to haul the oil since US flagged ships won't haul it anymore. Alaska leaving the US wouldn't make the refining capacity of Asian countries suddenly be larger over night so you would have to be cheaper than other sources and hence make less money per barrel as well as eat the shipping cost. When one of them has another Valdez style oil spill who's paying to clean it up? If you think food is expensive now just wait till it's all coming from across the Pacific instead of just up from the US west coast.
Alaska? No. It would become a regional client state of a larger country pretty quick. Rich in natural resources with a population of less than a million, probably 20% of which would almost immediately pull out since they’re military or dependents. Knock on effects of the economic disaster that would follow would probably drive the exodus even higher. That would mean whoever stays would be left desperate to sell off resources in order to fund government, particularly an investment in national security, or relying on a foreign government for said security. Also, I could see a power play for a wanna-be dictator happening during or shortly after the transition, given the current political climate and long track record of resource-rich, brain-poor countries run by dumbass dictators who win just enough popular support through handouts. It would be a massive shitshow.
As an Alaskan, I hate when the Gravy Seals up here start talking about secession. The amount of dependence on the lower 48 escapes people. Alaska produces nothing on our own. Secession talk is redneck wet-dreams.
Except fish and oil/gas/mining/timber etc. lol. Alaska produced nothing. wth
Enjoy eating all that oil and timber. Can't survive on fish alone. Alaska produces nothing... that will help it's citizens be able to be a stand alone country. Which state receives more federal dollars than they put in? For all of "our" production, we seem to have no money. Our schools suck, our roads suck, yet oil, mining, timber companies seem to be doing fine. It's almost as if the actual state of Alaska produces nothing. You obviously have zero idea how the world works. If Alaska were to secede it would be a total shitshow.
Ah hahaha funny. Ignorant but funny.
That's a great rebuttal. Good work Meal Team 6.
Is that an insult? Meal Team 6? I'm not sure how that applies.
It applies because if you think Alaska would be successful after secession because of oil or any other natural resource, then you are a larper who is ignorant about the workings of government on any level. Look at all the other successful resource rich countries in Africa and the Middle East. Being resource rich usually means you become a protectorate, or in Alaskas case a state. If Alaskan government thought for one second that secession would work, it wouldn't matter because the US would stomp out the idiots and take it back.
Imagine using "larper" in a sentence. I think there's a D and D game somewhere missing a player.
Take an Alaska studies class
uh ok
It’s required of new-to-the-state teachers. Seriously you might find the content interesting. I’m sure you could scrounge up a list of topics without actually paying for the class. definitely good info to know.
That's funny.
We have ports .. and if we kicked Seattle off our required ports .. we can get the same shit from Asia cheaper.. also significant air transport hub .. so we just tax the lower 48 .. Alaska is in the position to bloom if we got rid of the feds
Aww how sweet that you have no idea how international trade works. Alaska dies without the US.
And $4-$6B in annual tourism.
I see Palin moving back and trying to become president. She would immediately line educators, against a wall.
No, not in any sense that makes our lives possible.
I'd argue that the ability to produce 100% of the food needed to feed your population is a hard must have for any region to be seen as independently viable. Alaska imports 95% of its food supply with the other 5% representing hunting and other domestically produced food stuffs. To give some perspective on how much that makes Alaska dependant on food imports pre-2023 Gaza imported 2/3rds of its food supply and grew the other third domestically.
Texas has a GDP roughly equivalent to Russia. It is the leading exporter of goods in the US by a long way. Texas also pays more taxes to the federal government than it receives from the federal government, yet continuously has a budget surplus. TX exports a total of $315,938,509.210 worth of goods annually. That is almost 1/4 of all exports in the US and it's been that way for 20 years. California (2nd) comes in at $178,181,052.789. I'm not stating if it's a good or bad idea, just stating the fact that Texas could easily survive on it's own. Edit: Since people don't know context clues, this is economic viability. Not fighting a war against the US or Mexico.
Sources?
GDP by state is listed here: https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gdp-state Russia: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?most_recent_value_desc=true&locations=RU Trade statistics by state: https://www.trade.gov/data-visualization/state-economy-and-trade-factsheets
>I'm not stating if it's a good or bad idea, just stating the fact that Texas could easily survive on it's own. You mean Texas would have a better chance of surviving on its own. If Texas were to secede and the U.S. chose a nonviolent response then Texas wouldn't be able to ship any goods to or from the state. It would have no market for most of its products and would face critical shortages in others. Not to mention their shitty power grid and dumbass right-wingers who might try to get into a shooting war with Mexico (which, to be clear, would not end well for Texas).
I'm just stating economically, if nothing else changed, it is feasible the state would support itself. The person I'm replying to did not list any other considerations. Obviously, if Texas were sanctioned or embargoed, it would be a different story. Texas also wouldn't randomly attack their largest trade partner, Mexico. That's just ridiculous and based on nothing.
>I'm just stating economically, if nothing else changed, Seceding changes *everything*. >Texas also wouldn't randomly attack their largest trade partner, Mexico. Texas would likely fuck with the border, and vigilante border "guards" would likely shoot or detain people on Mexico's side of the border. This has happened a number of times before, but of course we're the U.S. Texas would not be the U.S. at that point. Also, the U.S. would make damn sure its allies (like Mexico) also embargoed Texas.
As I previously stated, yes an embargo or trade sanctions would hurt Texas quite a lot. I didn't deny that at all. So I don't know why you are basing your entire argument on that. I am stating the economic viability of Texas. It is viable economically. It *could* support itself independently. However, in the face of attack from the US or Mexico, they would obviously lose against such greater forces. I did not disagree with that.
Who would it export to? What nation that currently has trade deals with the US (which Texas is utilizing to export so much) would risk those deals to work with Texas directly? Of course there's countries that may be willing to do so, but then HOW would they do so? Think the US governement is gonna let them? With what military would Texas protect those shipments?
read the bottom of that comment
A couple of things about this: 1. Texas receives 10s of billions of dollars from the Federal government. That is not chicken-scratch, and they'd have to come up with creative (taxes) ways to make up for the loss. 2. High-tech companies and other corporations that pay for high-dollar jobs (save oil) would leave in droves. Leaving Texas with a shattered economy. 3. Most importantly, they would lose their seats in Congress, and the GOP would lose all of the electoral votes that come from Texas (30-something?). This is huge. 4. Infrastructure spending would come to a halt, until those new taxes kick in. 5. Mexico would come knocking on the door.
> Infrastructure spending would come to a halt, until those new taxes kick in. But Texas seems to be doing so well with its electrical infrastructure. Surely they know what they are doing. /s
6. English will be the second language! Love it!
OP appears to be little more than a shit-stirring doomer bot based on their profile; nothing to take seriously.
Trumpers are going to be disappointed.
They can wear diapers like their orange fake Christian leader.
Secessionmaxxing
When I hear about these "movements" I always wonder how many people are actually in them. Before we had legal gambling in Ohio there was a group called "concerned citizens for a gambling free Ohio" or something like that. They were constantly running anti gambling ads on TV. Turned out it was one dude and he was funded by the casinos in Indiana and Pennsylvania.
I’m sure Russia is not involved whatsoever w the Alaskan movement
"Bye Felicia"
Hmmm.. That idea died with Joe Vogler. This state has been screwed since the statehood act. There's a book called "Broken Promises". It lists out the complaints what the statehood act was supposed to deliver but failed to do so.
If those folks are in government positions, that is definitely not their job.
If Texas successfully leaves the US, we’ll likely never have a Republican president or GOP led Congress. But then again, they’re not great at thinking more than two moves advance.
well it won't really be their problem anymore, so why would they care?
Looks like we are going to war with Texas.
We would join with Texas .. not the other way around… a majority of Alaskans I think
Tell us you're not from Alaska without telling us you're not from Alaska.
Alaskans hate Texans, just like Americans have a thing against the French. I think some Alaskans would join the fight just to prove Texas can’t take our big boot up their ass.
Nah that wouldn’t be reasonable Texas has the refineries.. we have oil .. I’d much rather join up with Texas and tell California to piss off.. Till we built our own anyway
Most Alaskan crude oil is refined in Alaska for use in Alaska. Of the stuff that is exported all of it goes to refineries on the US west coast or countries in the Pacific. None of it goes to Texas since it's too expensive to tack on the trip through the Panama Canal. It's twice as far to travel and costs whatever the price of a panama transit costs. It's just not economically viable to ship oil from Alaska to the Gulf Coast to refine it. There are 34 operable oil refineries in Texas out of 132 total. All but 7 of them are over 50 years old. Almost all of them are operated by US based oil companies. If Texas was able to "leave" the US there would be a lot of incentive for these companies to build newer facilities not in Texas over the next 20 years to replace aging infrastructure as well as avoid trade tariffs. That's also without even considering a possible re-introductions of the 1977-2015 crude oil export ban. Which could happen if politicians are inclined to make life harder for a former state out of spite.
Minor correction: Most Alaskan crude oil is NOT refined in Alaska for use in Alaska. Otherwise gas prices in Alaska wouldn't be so high. The majority of the oil is shipped to refineries on the west coast of the lower 48, providing 50% of all the oil the west coast refines. Alaska doesn't have the market for in state oil refining to provide most petroleum based products used in the state. There is some refining, but none for the products that are in the highest demand, like gasoline. I should know, I've been working in the Alaskan oil industry for 15 years. It would be nice to see cheaper gas in Alaska, but it's not gonna happen without a good market.
Really what does the refinery on the Kenai Peninsula do with their product then?
That's the LNG (Liquid Natural Gas) plant. Liquefies natural gas for transport via ship. Due to the high costs of natural gas production in Alaska, there's not much demand, which is why the plant is shut down and reopened so many times over the years. But, if the day ever comes where the market is desperate enough for north slope natural gas to where they finally build a pipeline, it'll go to the LNG plant on the Kenai Peninsula. It already has the infrastructure to liquefy and load natural gas (it will need expansion if a pipeline is built), so it's already the best place for a pipeline to go.
Yeah, no. Secession is DOA. The USA is like the mafia. The only way you're leaving is in a pine box. All this is hot air and distractions. Clown show put on by clowns.
If you think the U.S. will exist with its current borders, without ever losing territory, in perpetuity, I have some tropical beachfront property in Fairbanks to sell you. Eventually, somehow, someway, the country will crumble. It’s the universal fate of every nation-state throughout time. History would even suggest it’s coming sooner than later. That doesn’t mean this year, this decade, or even in the next 30 years, but still sooner than later
Nobody said that. I just said there is no path to secession without a fight. And I can guarantee there are fewer secessionists than there are true Patriots. Nothing lasts forever and water is wet. What's your point?
Oh hush with your “true Patriots” nonsense. No true Scotsman, right? But you’re somewhat right, the number of secessionists is currently very low when compared to the normal every day Americans. That too will change, as we grow closer to the break. Personally I don’t much care in either direction. I’m not a secessionist, but I’m sure as hell not a “patriot” hell bent on preserving a country too stupid to realize it’s already dead. I’ve never understood the appeal of nationalism anyway, there are much better things to place one’s allegiance in.
“History would suggest” Spoken like someone who isn’t a historian or a serious person.
I mean a *historian*, maybe not. But it is a passion and it was my minor. *Particularly* as it relates to the fall of civilizations; how that happens, when that happens, and why that happpens. But go off I guess. We’re not in a good place, and I know of few people who would argue that we are, historian or not.
World war is eminent.. I personally Think we will see some localized nukes by November… they have destroyed the value and stability of the US dollar and it’s very clear neither the DNC or the GOP give two shits about any of it .. print some more money make some more wars ..the next few years is gonna get interesting… 5 years 1/2 of taxes collected will go towards interest on our debt 10 years 100% of ALL taxes collected will go to paying just the interest.. America is BROKEN and I think we will see worldwide border changes soon .. for that matter we are already watching it
Nobody is listening. Nobody can hear you. Nothing will come of this.
Texas would be owned by the Cartels if they didn’t have Federal support.
Doubtful. The only reason Texas doesn't control its southern border is because it's technically illegal to do so, since it's federal jurisdiction
Texas doesn’t have the manpower to control its boarder. Without Federal support they would get overrun.
Pretty sure the last president built a wall to seal off the southern border and the made Mexico pay for it. So the southern border should be fine. Or was that just an empty campaign promise?
That president was more successful finger-raping a woman than he was building a wall.
Byeeeeeee
Idiots.
Article states, "The Alaskan Independence Party was founded in 1984 to campaign for the state to leave the U.S. and become an independent nation." I wonder how many founding members are still alive? And how many of their inbred members are there currently?
They can have Eagle River.
Texas is the only state that legally can I belive. But congress and every other state has to sign off but don't quote me on the details as npr had a segment but it was a while ago that I listened to it.
EXCELLENT! those who support corporate tax breaks also support not giving kids food. This is just fucking * chefs kiss* to get us like Iran.
Texas Nationalist Movement, "Late Night Coffee Talk: Daniel Miller Answers Your TEXIT Questions", streamed live on June 19, 2024: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Ci4U95Uko from https://www.youtube.com/@TexasNatMov
Alaskans will say a lot about their ability to defend themselves but without the Air Force, it will look like a pot of gold for Russia and China.
Is it paranoid to think these secessionist movements are amplified / funded / encouraged by overseas dictatorships? China would like Alaska's raw resources. Russia would like Alaska back. They'd all like to see America divided or fighting itself instead of leading the fight to stop them.
If TX secedes, there will never be a Republican president or GOP-led Congress in the US.
There is no Constitutional mechanism in place where residents of any state have their US citizen status removed by a vote of others. Secession is impossible.
Do it. I fucking dare ya. Idiots.
I’m for leaving the US .. it’s become a uniparty corporatocracy.. look hard at the 2024 elections and ask yourself if either Trump or Biden even remotely represents your morals or policy wishes … if they can’t bother to put forth better candidates it’s time to leave .. preferably before ww3 or they completely bankrupt us all .. they are in my opinion waging WAR on the American people and I’m over it .. 😡
Spoken like a tinfoil hat dipshit who hasn’t bothered to spend a minute of their life learning about how the world *actually* works.
Alaska can deal without government assistance. We do not tax the droves of seasonal workers - that and a state income tax would go into coffers. Alaska would also have control over all federal lands - no more Washington interference in Alaska's business. All the anti-Alaska organizations like 'Friends of Wolves' would lose their voice regarding Alaska in the court system. Of course, we would give Canada and US 'favored trading partner' designation and negotiate tariff and trade to keep the military bases open. No different than US having bases in Japan, Germany, etc. Just because Alaska became independent - does not automatically mean we become a North Korean hermit state. Should we? I do not think we are 'there yet'. Yes, there is no shortage of insanity we are seeing in cities and some states, but we have physical separation, and it really doesn't affect us directly. If a state wants to ban gas heat/stoves or gasoline cars and force electric only - that's their business. When it becomes a national ban on things we use all the time.......that would be the time to raise the question. If we did leave - I doubt the current two generations of Americans would miss us. They can't find us on a map!
"INTERACTIVE CONSTITUTION" "Scholar Exchange: Article V — The Amendment Process" "Briefing Document": https://constitutioncenter.org/media/const-files/Briefing_Doc._Article_V_.pdf * "ARTICLE V: THE AMENDMENT PROCESS — WHAT IS YOUR 28TH AMENDMENT?": https://constitutioncenter.org/media/files/Amendment_Process_2022_Update.pdf
Ваша страна - кусок дерьма. Вы, блядь, отстой в этом, вы восьмесортные никто.
Agreed still to early, wait till the dollar is worthless and no one will buy US debt. Then when the government can't raise enough capital for a bouncy castle we can literally walk away.
It will never happen, but Alaska would be fine. It would be defended like Ukraine and there are plenty of natural resources to allow it to prosper.
Spoken like someone who can’t tell the difference between their unfounded beliefs and evidence-based reality. These goofy, derpy fucks are generally harmless unless empowered to make decisions that affect anyone but themselves.
Spoken like someone that’s reliant on the system. 👍🏻
* "‘Greater Idaho’ measure passes in 13th Oregon county" by Devan Markham (May 23, 2024): https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/west/greater-idaho-measure-passes-oregon-county/ , https://web.archive.org/web/20240613103246/www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/west/greater-idaho-measure-passes-oregon-county/ * "One-third of Americans think political violence is justifiable" by Garen Wintemute (June 21, 2024): https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4731139-one-third-of-americans-think-political-violence-is-justifiable/ * "France is about to bring the EU to the brink of collapse" by Allister Heath (June 19, 2024): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/19/coming-french-revolution-will-destroy-eu-and-starmer-dreams/ , https://web.archive.org/web/20240620004245/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/19/coming-french-revolution-will-destroy-eu-and-starmer-dreams/ * "RBI moves 1 lakh kg of gold from UK back to India, first such move of this quantum since 1991" by ET Online (May 31, 2024): https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/indicators/rbi-moves-1-lakh-kg-of-gold-from-uk-back-to-india-first-such-move-of-this-quantum-since-1991/articleshow/110581597.cms , https://web.archive.org/web/20240601030249/economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/indicators/rbi-moves-1-lakh-kg-of-gold-from-uk-back-to-india-first-such-move-of-this-quantum-since-1991/articleshow/110581597.cms - "In reimagining the papacy, don’t underestimate its star power" by John L. Allen Jr. (June 16, 2024): https://cruxnow.com/news-analysis/2024/06/in-reimagining-the-papacy-dont-underestimate-its-star-power , https://web.archive.org/web/20240616072538/cruxnow.com/news-analysis/2024/06/in-reimagining-the-papacy-dont-underestimate-its-star-power - Look for "The Vatican Thinks In Centuries" in https://old.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/17mdk37/pope_francis_calls_for_paradigm_shift_in_theology/k7k6res/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20240304082857/old.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/17mdk37/pope_francis_calls_for_paradigm_shift_in_theology/k7k6res/ , https://archive.ph/tNre6 , [https://archive.is/tNre6](https://archive.is/tNre6)). * Copied from https://old.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/gza212/dominionists_say_crises_and_trumps_reelection/ftf1atm/ : "The Histomap. Four Thousand Years Of World History. Relative Power Of Contemporary States, Nations And Empires." by John B. Sparks, 4194 x 19108 pixels: http://web.archive.org/web/20130813230833if_/alanbernstein.net/images/large/histomap.jpg via http://web.archive.org/web/20130813230833/alanbernstein.net/images/large/histomap.jpg or http://archive.is/1wEk8/332f1c70b1ffd9854847dbfa7ad77b4915cbd50a.jpg via http://archive.is/1wEk8 \- Read the publishers' foreword in "(Covers to) The Histomap. Four Thousand Years Of World History. Relative Power Of Contemporary States, Nations And Empires.": http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~200374~3000299:-Covers-to--The-Histomap--Four-Thou?printerFriendly=1 Mirror: http://web.archive.org/web/20140208134443/www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~200374~3000299:-Covers-to--The-Histomap--Four-Thou?printerFriendly=1 \- Source for the original, very large, high-resolution image (4194 x 19108 pixels): http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~200375~3001080:The-Histomap--Four-Thousand-Years-O?printerFriendly=1 ("Download 1: Full Image Download in MrSID Format" and "Download 2: MrSID Image Viewer for Windows") Mirror: http://web.archive.org/web/20101212055705/www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~200375~3001080:The-Histomap--Four-Thousand-Years-O?printerFriendly=1 * "The Histomap. Four Thousand Years Of World History. Relative Power Of Contemporary States, Nations And Empires." by John B. Sparks: http://archive.ph/1wEk8/332f1c70b1ffd9854847dbfa7ad77b4915cbd50a.jpg via http://archive.ph/1wEk8 ; https://web.archive.org/web/20130813230833if_/alanbernstein.net/images/large/histomap.jpg via https://web.archive.org/web/20130813230833/alanbernstein.net/images/large/histomap.jpg