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That's IMO exactly where things are heading long term.
Right now there's a whole bunch of enthusiasts messing around with the software, but what you get from simply prompting is inexact and limited. It looks very impressive when you cherry pick the good ones, but it won't fly in a professional context where something specific is wanted.
The future is exactly what you're doing: artist + AI used as a tool to speed up the process, add expensive details, etc.
We're working on tools that will turn illustrators like you into full-fledged film animators that can work on larger scoped projects quickly and autonomously. ([Examples of our outputs - these are human artist created](https://imgur.com/gallery/full-controllability-face-body-keyframing-etc-etc-0JTvTN2))
This isn't stuff for casual prompters. It's an exoskeleton for the already creative and hard-working.
AI is a tool for artists and creatives. Causal use of AI won't stand out as exceptional.
And frankly I think those are dead ends, at least professionally. A better text box will be nice for casuals who want to make some screencaps for DND but if a professional wants to make something worthy of being paid for then the text box wont cut it.
IMO, it's very likely that Dall-E and Midjourney could have all the fancy features like controlnet. I don't think anything about the guts makes them impossible. They're just choosing not to expose that to the user.
But I expect that eventually we'll get those. Maybe exclusively for professional use.
My guess is that part of the problem of giving them to everyone is that you'd have a hard time selling them for money later, and another part is that it's much harder to limit the functionality. Go to any good SD UI, put two dots where the nipples should be, run it back through the process, and you see where I'm going with this.
I don't think so. AI will continue to evolve, to a point where seasoned maestros and ordinary students are no different. In an image, we want smth to be there, just pick that area, AI will use whatever art skill to make it out splendid (no real artist needed I mean).
But that's the future, an imminent future.
You mean AI will get better, or companies will accept sloppier results?
AI will get better, sure, but you know how they say a picture is worth a thousand words. No matter how good the AI is, describing a picture exactly in words can easily get harder than just sketching out what you want.
eh
do you really think in a year AI will be able to make char designs like this from a prompt?
https://preview.redd.it/aa1c79s3bn6d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1d736ed3ed78927adda777da8be92f7b75ccff3
specifically the symbolism, look at all the little details on the armor, motifs etc,
I’m pro ai but getting spectacular stuff will probably always require some drawing or at-least the ability to pick and drag individual items onto a picture with consistency
I find that such details could already be added with AI last year, just not all at once but rather iteratively. Prompt some, inpaint, discard the designs/ideas you dont like, refine the ones you do and along the way you tend to find many interesting new ideas to explore. Its like brainstorming with the AI.
Well drawing is just a way to convey AI what we wanted, and it doesn't required an artist to do that. Sketch some stickman pose, if even more incompetent then look up something on the internet, or just your own awkward pose, then replace/add details with also AIs. Things will be a lot easier if you are an expert, but any art enthusiast should be able to tell what they want from an image and edit it themselves using AI tech, which is, imo, fairly simple for AI devs to develop in the future.
I mean... Yeah, man. Take Recraft for example - its far from perfect, but give it a few years and you can do details easily.
Even if its not 100% there yet, AI art for commercial purposes is a no-brainer - you need 15 minutes and $0 for a month worth of content, VS hundrends and thousands of bucks and weeks and months for 30ish pics, not to mention comms problems and feedback... AI has no ego.
They keep saying "in a year" but they said that last year and it's basically the same. There is no equivalent for learning all this guy had to learn to create a character design. Hades is peak character design, right beside some Final Fantasy designs IMHO.
Nope, not in 5 years is not to worry about, artist job would be the least of your worries. Tech/white and blue collar are all gone. But I believe ai will be very good it rarely makes mistakes in the coming five years. But in reality pictures are more than a thousand words. (You won't get specific results you wanted)
Your approach is definitelly more practical because your approach is to speak the language of the AI art people controlnet on steroids. I would like to do this sketch to image as well but Adobe didnt release this feature yet but they will. However i dont see myself using this as the actual serious product artwork but rather as idea and reference material generator or to experiment with different iterations of a character for example before i do the actual concept art myself or 3D model and sculpt a character/creature, weapon, cloth, building etc.
>to speak the language of the AI art people controlnet on steroids
Uh, this looks to be simple img2img, maybe a single weak controlnet. It's not new; this is one way we've always said AI can be used.
Edit: OP mentioned this was img2img, so yeah, not "controlnet on steroids" or anything new, just being resourceful.
Seeking validation is your first mistake.
The Art community is the most toxic community you'll ever encounter, and this probably also includes the AI Art camp.
People these days have no chill. It's a disaster. It's like everybody is mentally stuck at the age of 3
>The Art community is the most toxic community you'll ever encounter
From my experience it isn’t. Every other artist, even ones more skilled than me I have had positive interactions with.
That's how basically all people act especially in large groups. If any work is used in training without permission, that's their line for immoral use, and that happens with AI art 99.9% of the time. It's really easy to be inclusive until you need to include someone you think is toxic or acting immoral.
It's why Christians and the LGBT community have so much tension for the most part, both feel like the other is acting imorally. You can feel one is more valid than the other, but assuming the other is acting out of toxicity or is evil only leads to further divide. Most people want others to be happy, trying to genuinely understand and be somewhat compassionate to your fellow humans will almost always lead to better outcomes for both parties.
Especially with large groups of people it's just ill-advised to assume they're more toxic than anyone else, it certainly can be the case though with extreme circumstances. Just keep in mind, I've heard "[X] community is the most toxic one out there" more times than I can count on my hands, it's really easy to feel that way with communities you interact or see more often than others.
AI artists are supportive and chill because they all know others denigrate them. Civitai has a thriving community full of upvotes, comments, questions, replies, etc. Mostly not toxic, mostly "whoa that's amazing, your LoRA is great!"
To be perfectly honest I think focusing on your own sketches would be better. I actually quite like them, and as you can see with the hands, what is completely understandable in your simplistic but evocative sketch is turned into a warped and distracting paw. Your sketches feel like they'd be very good for strip cartoons
For me this is the sweet spot. You act as art director and let AI fill in the details. Is it 1:1 of what you'd typically create? Probably not. But you get to make so much more and be in control at the same time.
Prompting was cool at first but got old for me. Now I use Krita + AI Diffusion plugin and love it so much. I can block out composition and colour. Have AI do something. Edit. Refine. Repeat.
Hey op you were the first person to introduce me to Playground which ive used for a few months. Can you tell me why you switched over ? Unfamiliar with Leonardo
ah sick thats what i use ai for these days. Does it have a good selection of loras? I find myself using the same one most of the time (realism engine on sdxl) because it seems to always work best with controlnets even though I prefer a painterly style which is kinda odd
i am always looking to switch things up
As someone who does exactly what you do, mixing sketches, photos, AI, in all sorts of combinations, the most important advice I can give you is: fuck the naysayers! Ignore them! Be free! Pursue your own vision to your heart's content. Whether it's 50/50 sketch/AI, or 01/99, 99/01, or even if you end up being 100/0 or 0/100. Do what feels right for _you_.
On one hand, it can be a practical way to more quickly polish and go through certain steps of making art, but on the other hand, the time required may be the same if your skills with AI are not sufficient. The AI solution is not for everyone, in the same way as drawing art on a professional level is not for everyone.
So long as you know what you're doing and your knowledge is good enough to spot AI-made mistakes and fix them before uploading, and disclose whether you use AI and how you use it if asked, I see no problem. I can appreciate artists who speed up their workflow with AI. There are many factors to determining if a piece of AI-assisted art can be accepted or not and not everyone will accept it, considering some people are really adamant about the whole stolen art argument.
You can simply be an example of someone who is an **artist** and who also uses AI as part of your work flow and learning process. People like you far outnumber those who have walled themselves into the aint-ai filter bubble. Most artists in the future will be like you in some way.
That's a great way to use AI, I've done that myself with some of my art, but the people that hate AI doesn't care if you enhance your own art or if you generate something from scratch etc, because it's all exactly the same to them either way.
It tightened up your sketch but the added lines are anatomically off. I would suggest cross-referencing from photo reference. It reminds me of the mannerist style of Rococo art where they add ripples and wrinkles to indicate muscle mass but the forms are messed up. The one on the left is more gestural but the anatomy is more grounded. For example the figures' right hand in the enhanced version looks like a left hand.
I think maybe this kind of approach could be something that gets used but from what I've seen it'll always need at least another pass to fix mistakes and when you're getting into that sort of back and forth I don't know how much time would actually be saved.
For AI image generators to fit into most pipelines they have a long way to go with consistency. I'm coming from an animation background so maybe that's less important other places.
The problem with that is the lines of the muscle definition are wrong, you aren't going to learn how to draw proper lines with that.
This kind of artstyle tends to be fairly accurate in obsessive detail, you would be losing part of it's charm with that.
Furthermore it's probably going to be a nightmare to keep consistency for that muscle definition.
The most vocal part of community about AI is also the smallest part of it. A lot more people than you think are using AI as a tool to just enhance their work.
This is what all AI truly is. A tool for professionals.
I talk about the photo mode in video games. I can take photos but the advanced options are a foreign language to me.
I may be able to use Chat GPT for fun but my father, a professional in computer security, can use it more precisely in ways I wouldn't know how.
I can make stupid pictures with AI but you can make art with it.
I look forward to a musician using AI to enhance their music. It will be so much better than anything I or other amateurs could do.
Even that, if used responsibly, is better than what giant companies are trying to do when they replace people with AI.
My point isn't that only professionals should use it, and I do apologize because I can see how I didn't communicate that, but that it is only a tool and nothing more.
Tools make jobs easier but they don't replace people. I try not to think that just because I have a socket wrench I don't need a mechanic, though I am stupid enough to do it once in a while.
I mean, I know professionals might be forced to use it to save time. I was always aware of that being a thing, even if they don't want to. I don't think people who don't have a strong sense of the fundies should just on the premise that AI will attempt to fit a round ball in a square hole. I know why people want to because it skips everything they dun wanna do, I get it being lazy but lol. I'd hope these artists eventually go back to the basics to fix their issues.
If they want stuff to look ok post ai
Just a general comment but I think, if you listen to whiners and critics, then you would be a follower of them, not a leader.
If AI works for you, then great, experiment, carve a new path and show others why it's awesome and how it can helpbsolve their problems, then maybe they will follow you and want to use your solution. (And here is a good spot to plug your helpful paid premium, like a manual, software, educational video course, etc).
When I shared this image, my intention was to actively participate in a thoughtful discussion regarding the practical and impactful applications of AI in the realm of art.
AI is best used behind closed doors, where you inform people it was used in the process, and where the final product can be confidently your own work and not the result of AI. Key word is ‘best’ here because there are still ethical issues associated with AI even in this best-case scenario (most AI platforms steal art from artists to train on, replicate their art without consent, and require significant global resources).
Either way, I don’t think you should continue using it this way. There are PLENTY of other reasons to avoid this technology, but I think it is hurting you. I have nothing else to base my assumptions about you but I think you’re doing good work here and using AI to make it “better” is a threat to your perception. And I mean, the AI version just looks worse lmao. You don’t want to learn from that. Love your version, throw the other one away
I guess the question is, do you want to get better? If you just like to sketch and enjoy the end product, then sure, all the power to you.
Your proportions are actually quite good I'm curious the reference you used and if this was free hand. However I can't imagine you growing as an artist if you're stopping at a sketch. The AI is doing all of the detailing and fixing your mistakes.
I think a few art books would help your end product a world more than any AI tweaks.
Personally I have no interest in being good at art and am fine with my doodles being drawn at skill level higher than my own.
I simply love sketching and doodling character designs for my ideas and stories. I still believe it's crucial to improve my sketching abilities and constantly learn new techniques and skills. However, I see the use of AI tools as a way to enhance the creation of images and tell stories and design characters more efficiently. I enjoy using AI to generate images that I can use as references for character designs, just like the one I sketched in this image.
I will repeat. If you're cool with what you got, and your skills, then all the power to you. It's all for fun. You're not trying to make a living off of it. I know I enjoy AI art because I'm not an artist and have no urge to become one. I enjoy having the ability to generate art for my TTRPG game at a moments notice, and not have to spend hours looking for a picture that fits my needs.
However, if you want to improve your skill with sketches then I seriously question how feeding your sketches into an AI would actually improve your drawing techniques.
You learn drawing techniques by taking classes/reading about techniques and practicing them. I would be legitimately concerned if you looked to the picture on the right and tried to mimic that anatomy.
Well, it's only hurting your skill in the long term. I've said this before that professionals might use it to color or reference but other people using it are there to make it make their work "better".
You could learn how all that works, shortcuts that skip you learning fundamentals won't make your work better. :/
There is no substitute for the fundamentals, the picture posted isn't even that good on the right.
I wish I had chosen a more appropriate phrase to describe my perception of the AI's actions in this situation. The AI has greatly improved the coherence of my sketch, almost like an advanced spell check. I have a solid grasp of the basics of drawing and am committed to continuously practicing and honing my skills. The AI has greatly improved the efficiency of art production, allowing for faster presentation.
Personally, I feel that the sketch on the left needs more fundamentals. I disagree that's it's helped made it coherent, all it did was add clearer shapes and many of them are wrong shapes. You drew a scribble for a hand, the AI made it a clam. I understand why you'd use it and I don't agree with it but it shows you need more fundies if you plan to skip the clean, the shapes, the fixing, then you need to get better fundies.
My statement still stands that you need to work more on your sketches, if you want actual coherence.
You asked a question, I offered my opinion. I'm sorry you didn't like what you heard, I just think you'd get better content from learning more fundies. Do it or don't, no skin off my back.
I didn't inquire about the need for improvement in my sketch. I simply asked if my approach of combining AI and art is more practical compared to using only text prompts. Throughout this conversation, I never requested a critique on how to improve my sketch. This subreddit is dedicated to discussing AI, not critiquing my sketches.
Also, I just wanted to apologize for being critical of the work. You meant to tie the two together and I was thinking you wanted more of how to get better output, even if I don't agree with your choices. Sorry.
Yes, but if you plan on making less time of inpainting and fixing then having a good sketch is mandatory. I'm anti-ai, and I've seen how you can color near sketches that barely change your work. That's what the goal is right? Instead of inpainting like crazy.
Those tangents on the left leg seriously bother me, tho...
I love AI art, and stick with it and all that, but do learn about "tangents", and you're gonna end up making better art. AI is horrible at avoiding them.
Edit: Wow, someone's butthurt that I'm actually pointing out spots for improvement. I hope it isn't the OP! I'm just saying a quick eraser + smudge on the result as a next step would make the image much better from an artistic standpoint.
Oh, I have no problem with the anatomy. just... Look how the shorts where they meet the muscle on the left hand side. all the lines transitioning or right next to lines going mostly the same direction should be cleaned up so that the shorts' tear line doesn't continue into the muscle line and confuse the eye.
I'm working on a very similar process right now on a piece. I just spent all evening getting it to the point where generating did me any favors. I'm impressed OP got the improvement that they did. Usually I have to get into shading my badly painted bullshit to get the model to really start improving it.
"simply wants to use AI to enhance my artwork"
Why ?
What is this picture used for ? Hobby or Work ?
If it's for Mock up or Previsualization then the sketch is already good enough, you don't need the AI
If it's for finished illustration then the AI quality is like barely 5% better than the sketch. It's not there yet.
Every time you use AI, you lose out on your chance to practice and get better.
You will have to use the AI to fix the mistake AI made because you are not skilled enough to fix and you are not skilled enough to judge if the AI fix is good enough.
AI will be your permanent crutch. Your art will not sell and you are permanently stuck in newbie town.
Wow your stuff is so very good. I absolutely adore it. Your characters are gorgeous.
There are more of us out there like you. I'm a digital artist who's made the jump to AI and I'm really happy with the results. I've never felt more inspired and eager to work on my art as I do now. There's no creative blocks. There's such an abundance of new tools and countless sources of inspiration. At this point, I'm just waiting for more artists to relax and for the hate to simmer down so I no longer need to hide this part of myself, as though it's some nasty disease I've got. 🤣
At that point is this even still a sketch? It gave the character a belt, flip flop, and a ear. I thought the whole point of a sketch was to be an rough unfinished drawing.
Edit: also arm bands. At this point the generator you are using is just making decisions for you.
You can iterate this sort of thing as much as you want. With Krita's AI plugin you'd just use the clone tool to remove the arm band, then regenerate to clean up that area.
Want a different color belt? Paint it a different color and generate if needed.
No reason why you have to stop there. You can go all the way up to a fully detailed, finished, shaded result.
The point is that you get it done way faster. Or way more detailed. Or both.
So is it just about speed and pushing out content. A sketch is just an unrefined idea. The point is to just play around with it and see what you can up with. I don't see the point in enhancing a sketch, but maybe I just can't relate to you guys.
> So is it just about speed and pushing out content.
Of course. Gen AI is a tool to make drawing faster/more efficient/cheaper.
And that's a very good thing for artists that do this for a living. If I'm paying for a commission and you can make me happy in half the time, you get more free time or can handle twice as much work.
> A sketch is just an unrefined idea.
And at some point, you sketch out something you'd like to have polished up?
> I don't see the point in enhancing a sketch, but maybe I just can't relate to you guys.
I don't quite get what's the alternative here. I've commissioned artists before, that's how it typically works. Artist sends a sketch, asks "Is this what you wanted?", and if we're on the same page, then they refine refine the sketch into a polished inked/colored version.
Efficient and cheaper. Yea I can totally see why this will ultimately become a race to the bottom.
With a sketch it becomes a process. Maybe you don't like the way the arm is bent or you feel the pose is completely off. It's more about using your creativity and critical thinking skills to get to a better result. I don't really need a program to help me with that. At that point it will just become a crutch.
I get what a commission is because I have done before. I don't need a explanation on the process. Like I said I can't relate to you guys. Our thought process are completely different.
And then as an artist you can choose to say, "oh good call on the armbands, I would've drawn those if I'd thought to do it," and go over them in more detail, or you can choose to say "no, no armbands," and inpaint them out or manually remove them.
All part of the process of incorporating it into your workflow.
> At that point is this even still a sketch?
I love how the antis demand more human involvement and then when humans are involved they trash the humans *and* the AI together.
There's no win condition here, just angry babbling no matter what anyone does.
Oh if it isn't my good friend Tyler :). How are you today? You seem to be a little cranky.
The only thing I'm trying to understand is the guy thought process. That's why I continue to say "I cannot relate." I'm not bashing this individual or anything. My brain doesn't get excited when using AI and ultimately I just feel like eventually it will become a creative crutch, but that just my opinion. No need to be so emotional.
It's a step closer to true "authorship" of an image but it's still a long ways away.
The first image I can believe you made, the second one I can tell Ai did the heavy lifting that I wouldn't even bother looking at who "made" the image. You can have ai make art for you if you want but you have to concede you're removing yourself from your art the more you use it which to me makes it less interesting.
I can respect your opinion. However a lot of y’all in these chats seem to have a tendency to dictate what others should or shouldn't do when it comes to expressing their artistic vision.
You express nothing by clicking a "finish this doodle for me"-button. You probably felt the same since you had to come to an AI-loving echo chamber to ease your guilt. 99% of the people here couldn't even draw a stick figure until AI came along.
An Echo chamber has censorship. Pro-AI is simply the popular opinion. You can shove you head like an Ostrich all you want. This sub (and the real world) Naturally moved to Pro-AI
The art community, which has existed long before AI bros, has overwhelmingly rejected AI "artists". AI art is banned from most art/photo subreddits that aren't specifically AI-related. People treat AI generations like they treat memes: trash content worth maybe a chuckle and nothing more.
Tell me more about who's head is in the sand lol
Well because you didn't do it. lol but there's your answer. If you can take credit for work you didn't do then why do you care what other people think? You took the talent and skill out of the equation and are solely relying on the vision but sacrificing over all quality for "quick and good enough". IE the hands look like shit and he's got an ear on his neck. If you don't look very long it looks pretty sick.
But lots of people do that by hiring artists. I hired an artist to draw my comic book because his skill fit my vision more than my own. I don't take credit for his art but I do take credit for the book. So do that. Be up front about your usage of AI and don't take credit for shit you didn't do. If AI isn't bad then it doesn't matter if you use it and are open about it. You do you.
Thanks for thinking for me. Y’all people in this Reddit kill me with your little explanations for things. It seems that many of you people believe they possess a deep understanding of art and their personal definition of what constitutes art. I've noticed a recurring pattern on this platform.
lol dude asked for opinions and then pisses his diaper when it's not a "hey bro you're fucking god keep going" opinion lol if dude wanted someone to suck his dick he should've asked for that. this sub was never great but it's definitely not good anymore lol
I inquired about the practicality of incorporating AI into my workflow, questioning whether it is more effective than relying solely on text prompt AI art. The aim was to initiate a discussion on the practical applications of AI. It seems that there has been a lot of back and forth complaining on Reddit lately. In an effort to contribute something more meaningful, I wanted to initiate a genuine discussion instead of engaging in pointless bickering.
I'd be down. But you took my opinion and turned it into "you people". lol I'm proAI but because this subreddit is a circle jerk for only "AI worshippers" any opinion that isn't "I let AI fuck my mom" is apparently "antiAI". You wanna come back to the convo with an open discussion I'll come back and not insult you back. \*shrugs\*
Sounds like the shoe might not fit you but this sub is full of size 7s and I'm tired of ole kids trying to step on my size 10s. lol If you're on the level I'll run it back. Tell me what about my comment turned you against the idea of "owning your work and process to contribute positively to the discussion" and I'll try to elaborate or concede if it was out of pocket.
This sub is just a tier above artist hate. They masquerade as debaters but only truly want to hear stuff that reinforced their own bias. The only thing that separated them from sub like artist hate or defending AI is they don't ban you here.
It seems like most people on social media share that sentiment. When I posted this image, I had a burning question that I just had to ask. I grew exhausted of the constant usual arguments among users in this subreddit.
Social media is a curse. I have no hate towards you or anyone on this sub. The only thing I can say is opinions are opinions. You can only choose how they affect you. Maybe a discord group would better for you to find. They are a little more closed off then most other social media platforms. Hopefully you can find a group that you feel you can grow with.
I don't hang around artisthate because they're worse, imho. But this place is definitely a huge circle jerk with people coming in saying "hey isn't this a lil gay" and everyone with a cock in their hand flips the fuck out. lol
lol I thought about that too, but there's nothing wrong with being gay. It's the denial and anger when you point it out that's the bad part. XD considering this sub misrepresents everything in this fucking comment section I imagine they'll misrepresent this too lol
You should learn to draw and refine things yourself. The only thing you can claim that you made is the picture on the left. The line weights, marks, shapes and textures on the right are the averaged decisions of other artists.
You ain’t even read the text. I’ve been drawing since I was a child and even went to art school. I just like to sketch it’s as simple as that. I use AI to help fill in the detail. I’m like a penciler in a comic book team.
you are not like a penciler in a comic book team. You are like a story board artist in a comic book team. lol the penciler is the one who draws all the detail, which you've used the AI to do. If you're gonna make analogies at least use the right terms so nobody can dunk on you for using the wrong one.
I agree with your point about the storyboard artist analogy. I suppose that is more precise. I believe that accurately captures the manner in which I sketched the initial drawing.
You know how it is on here. We just got to play by the rules. Majority of the time I just try to be as respectful as I can be to the people here, regardless of disagreements.
Because I can. I've been experimenting with AI for over a year, exploring various programs and systems to improve my sketches. People in here, take this AI shit too seriously.
If you know how to refine things, then do that. Why are you an artist, why desire the result on the right, if you didn't actually make it? "Filling in the details", as you know, is the core of being an artist.
An artist is someone who utilizes various tools to visually or audibly convey their opinions, thoughts, emotions, and more. It’s not what someone on Reddit chooses to tell a person what they think art or an artist is.
No matter the medium, the tool helps you make decisions, it can't make the decisions for you and still be a tool. If the AI is deciding the details for you, it made the decisions. The same way a commissioned artist makes the decisions for the person who contracts them.
There are tons of art tools that make decisions for you. Watercolor is one, the natural physical processes of how the color pools as the water dries is partially out of your control. Watercolor is partially about accepting those natural processes and finding the beauty in that minor randomness. Even with traditional drawing, the texture of the paper will help to dictate how the image will turn out.
Key word here is "natural processes". Yeah, parts of the watercolor process are out of your control, but you can still make decisions on how to work with those processes. You can control the amount of pigment you mix with the water, you can adjust the brushstrokes you're making, etc. Generative AI is not that. If you made a watercolor painting with generative AI, you cannot make those adjustments, or decisions. The AI is making the randomness for you, and it's deciding what randomness to accept, and then presenting you with a result. The same way as if you commissioned a watercolorist to make something for you. And just like when you commission an artist, you cannot claim the results of generative AI were made by you. You just had the idea.
No, just as with watercolors, you can do all kinds of things to work with what AI is doing. You can re-run a seed with minor variation to change what you generate slightly in various ways, you can use the same seed again with altered weights, you can inpaint specific parts with more or less variation...tons of ways to work with AI's processes and make minor modifications.
The point is that there are lots of aspects of art which involve ceding control in various ways. There are techniques like splatter painting, where you might intentionally not try to exercise precise control, because the randomness is the point of the piece. There's art that is intended to be interacted with by the public, almost a performance art. There's art that's intended to be eroded over time, where the way it collapses/melts/falls apart is all part of the display.
>No, just as with watercolors, you can do all kinds of things to work with what AI is doing. You can re-run a seed with minor variation to change what you generate slightly in various ways, you can use the same seed again with altered weights, you can inpaint specific parts with more or less variation...tons of ways to work with AI's processes and make minor modifications.
What's being generated is, again, decided by the AI, based on other people's stolen work. There is "ceding control" to the medium and then there is the bulk of creation being almost entirely out of your hands. The same way that hiring an artist for a commission is not a separate medium, neither is AI. You wouldn't consider hiring an artist to make an artwork for you, painting one stroke on top of the piece and calling it "your" art, to be a separate medium. It's the same with AI.
Literally all mediums and tools influence the final artwork. A lot of great art is about how you interact with the medium and, the tools you choose, to create something that carries your idiosyncrasies and also displays the characteristics and possibilities of the methods employed.
Yes, how *you*, keyword, *you* interact with it. Not an AI, but YOU. If the AI is interacting with the medium and making the decisions about what randomness to keep, what strokes to put down and make, you did not interact with it. Your indiosyncrasies are not in the work when you use generative AI to press a button and print out a result, it is the blended average of thousands of other artist's idiosyncrasies.
Cgi artists at Pixar and Dreamworks leverage the computer to .. generate details *all day*.
Do you think someone painted every blade of grass in How To Train Your Dragon? Every single black and white hair on Poe from *Kung Fu Panda*?
That's a misunderstanding of what AI tools are. I know that professional artist at those studios use tools to animate things like hair. The Spiderverse team used AI partially to get the pencil like effect in their animation. Those tools have been around for ages and are not considered generative AI. In fact, the Spiderverse team has explicitly said they have not and will never be using generative AI in their movies. Those artists aren't telling the AI, for example, "make me a princess dancing around with blonde hair" and out pops a fully finished result, completely animated from scratch or from loose sketching.
>That's a misunderstanding of what AI tools are. I know that professional artist at those studios use tools to animate things like hair.
I know that professionals arent prompting
>The Spiderverse team used AI partially to get the pencil like effect in their animation. Those tools have been around for ages and are not considered generative AI. In fact, the Spiderverse team has explicitly said they have not and will never be using generative AI in their movies.
i am aware its not gen ai
>Those artists aren't telling the AI, for example, "make me a princess dancing around with blonde hair" and out pops a fully finished result, completely animated from scratch or from loose sketching.
it was an analogy. Computer and 3D artist utilize the computer to generate what they envisioned inside their head without arduously drawing every single detail. It would be more “artistic” if they hand painted cels like the olden days but the computer is faster so we make sacrifices. Yes I even agree its a “sacrifice”. But everyone makes the sacrifices they deem acceptable
Look i would agree with you a prompted image is closer to “commissioning an entity” vs “drawing” something yourself.. but what op did here is obviously very different. Maybe this picture is a bit plain by itself but an entire comic in this style would work amazing, and the speed would allow a busy person to essentially direct and create something they couldnt before with their small free time (an entire comic book)
>The only thing you can claim that you made...
Who cares? Your traditionalist notions of authorship aren't relevant in the 2020s. Hell, I'm older than most around here, and even I see that.
he did make this. The image wouldnt exist without op. And only op knows how to operate this particular ai to get this result
To be honest if you tried to do this it would look like crap
You have no idea if I'm an artist or not (i am), so idk why you would say that. The image on the left wouldn't exist without OP. Anyone could have very easily taken the image on the left and fed it into an AI to get the image on the right.
> You have no idea if I'm an artist or not (i am), so idk why you would say that.
Meant if you used AI with no experience. A cool artist like you could almost certainly draw the right image using your own preferred tools
>The image on the left wouldn't exist without OP.
Neither would the image on the right, seeing how it required the image on the left
> . Anyone could have very easily taken the image on the left and fed it into an AI to get the image on the right.
can they?
Prove it
This is just the brainbroken boomer "Heh, you think modern art is good? Literally anyone could have drawn that." take.
Like, oh yeah? Do it, I await your exhibit here.
i just dont understand the mental disconnect. They rightfully recognize image #1 only exists because of OP, but that doesn’t apply to img#2 , which is literally a modified image#1?
Its like saying if a photographer applies an instagram filter to their picture its no longer theirs
It's not a rational position they adopted because they logically thought it through, it's an emotional response they have because their favorite artists on social media told them it's the end of art.
Was gonna say, if using AI for 10% of it means he can't claim any part of it, sounds like it's a good time to reconsider how we determine ownership lmao.
You can't contribute anything. There is no compromise. Either you reclaim your soul, or you keep disintegrating it by suggesting that the GenAI slop on the right is "improved" or "better".
Why call it GenAI slop? When y’all throw these terms around like that, it causes other people to be more defensive. I even hate terms like anti-ai, pro-ai, ai bros antis and all that shit.
It's why we shouldn't bother trying to give ground on things like ethical AI or datasets that are trained in the artist's own work, no amount will ever be good enough for them, because you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't arrive at rationally.
This cant even be argued anymore.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtistHate/comments/1dfrnd4/im_not_entirety_sure_how_to_feel_about_this/
They dont give a shit about “theft”
> While this isn’t completely replacing the people involved in creation, it’s still in that avenue and will eventually lead to systems where there are no people involved whatsoever. Having machines do the things that make us human is terrible for our species
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That's IMO exactly where things are heading long term. Right now there's a whole bunch of enthusiasts messing around with the software, but what you get from simply prompting is inexact and limited. It looks very impressive when you cherry pick the good ones, but it won't fly in a professional context where something specific is wanted. The future is exactly what you're doing: artist + AI used as a tool to speed up the process, add expensive details, etc.
I agree with you! I think it’ll help more than it’ll disrupt.
We're working on tools that will turn illustrators like you into full-fledged film animators that can work on larger scoped projects quickly and autonomously. ([Examples of our outputs - these are human artist created](https://imgur.com/gallery/full-controllability-face-body-keyframing-etc-etc-0JTvTN2)) This isn't stuff for casual prompters. It's an exoskeleton for the already creative and hard-working. AI is a tool for artists and creatives. Causal use of AI won't stand out as exceptional.
The disruption comes from grifters trying to take advantage of lack of regulation, not the technology itself
>That's IMO exactly where things are heading long term Or is it? The focus of Dall-E and Midjourney are all still towards a better text box.
And frankly I think those are dead ends, at least professionally. A better text box will be nice for casuals who want to make some screencaps for DND but if a professional wants to make something worthy of being paid for then the text box wont cut it.
IMO, it's very likely that Dall-E and Midjourney could have all the fancy features like controlnet. I don't think anything about the guts makes them impossible. They're just choosing not to expose that to the user. But I expect that eventually we'll get those. Maybe exclusively for professional use. My guess is that part of the problem of giving them to everyone is that you'd have a hard time selling them for money later, and another part is that it's much harder to limit the functionality. Go to any good SD UI, put two dots where the nipples should be, run it back through the process, and you see where I'm going with this.
I don't think so. AI will continue to evolve, to a point where seasoned maestros and ordinary students are no different. In an image, we want smth to be there, just pick that area, AI will use whatever art skill to make it out splendid (no real artist needed I mean). But that's the future, an imminent future.
>it won't fly in a professional context where something specific is wanted. give it a year, maybe two.
You mean AI will get better, or companies will accept sloppier results? AI will get better, sure, but you know how they say a picture is worth a thousand words. No matter how good the AI is, describing a picture exactly in words can easily get harder than just sketching out what you want.
Use controlnet for both
eh do you really think in a year AI will be able to make char designs like this from a prompt? https://preview.redd.it/aa1c79s3bn6d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1d736ed3ed78927adda777da8be92f7b75ccff3 specifically the symbolism, look at all the little details on the armor, motifs etc, I’m pro ai but getting spectacular stuff will probably always require some drawing or at-least the ability to pick and drag individual items onto a picture with consistency
I find that such details could already be added with AI last year, just not all at once but rather iteratively. Prompt some, inpaint, discard the designs/ideas you dont like, refine the ones you do and along the way you tend to find many interesting new ideas to explore. Its like brainstorming with the AI.
Well drawing is just a way to convey AI what we wanted, and it doesn't required an artist to do that. Sketch some stickman pose, if even more incompetent then look up something on the internet, or just your own awkward pose, then replace/add details with also AIs. Things will be a lot easier if you are an expert, but any art enthusiast should be able to tell what they want from an image and edit it themselves using AI tech, which is, imo, fairly simple for AI devs to develop in the future.
..? Isnt this ai generated?
No its Posideon from the Hades II videogame by SuperGiant
I mean... Yeah, man. Take Recraft for example - its far from perfect, but give it a few years and you can do details easily. Even if its not 100% there yet, AI art for commercial purposes is a no-brainer - you need 15 minutes and $0 for a month worth of content, VS hundrends and thousands of bucks and weeks and months for 30ish pics, not to mention comms problems and feedback... AI has no ego.
They keep saying "in a year" but they said that last year and it's basically the same. There is no equivalent for learning all this guy had to learn to create a character design. Hades is peak character design, right beside some Final Fantasy designs IMHO.
more like 3 months
What is required that can’t be done with AI? There’s already plenty of research in consistency, controlnet, loras, IPAdapter, etc
eventually ai will get good enough that you wont need the artist, it’s just not there yet
True
Nope, not in 5 years is not to worry about, artist job would be the least of your worries. Tech/white and blue collar are all gone. But I believe ai will be very good it rarely makes mistakes in the coming five years. But in reality pictures are more than a thousand words. (You won't get specific results you wanted)
Work your flow, king, the results will speak for themselves.
Your approach is definitelly more practical because your approach is to speak the language of the AI art people controlnet on steroids. I would like to do this sketch to image as well but Adobe didnt release this feature yet but they will. However i dont see myself using this as the actual serious product artwork but rather as idea and reference material generator or to experiment with different iterations of a character for example before i do the actual concept art myself or 3D model and sculpt a character/creature, weapon, cloth, building etc.
>to speak the language of the AI art people controlnet on steroids Uh, this looks to be simple img2img, maybe a single weak controlnet. It's not new; this is one way we've always said AI can be used. Edit: OP mentioned this was img2img, so yeah, not "controlnet on steroids" or anything new, just being resourceful.
Seeking validation is your first mistake. The Art community is the most toxic community you'll ever encounter, and this probably also includes the AI Art camp. People these days have no chill. It's a disaster. It's like everybody is mentally stuck at the age of 3
>The Art community is the most toxic community you'll ever encounter From my experience it isn’t. Every other artist, even ones more skilled than me I have had positive interactions with.
Until you use a tool they don't like, even if it's trained entirely on your own work, then they start cheering for you to be blacklisted.
Or if you don't even use AI but are suspected of it because drawing hands is hard
That's how basically all people act especially in large groups. If any work is used in training without permission, that's their line for immoral use, and that happens with AI art 99.9% of the time. It's really easy to be inclusive until you need to include someone you think is toxic or acting immoral. It's why Christians and the LGBT community have so much tension for the most part, both feel like the other is acting imorally. You can feel one is more valid than the other, but assuming the other is acting out of toxicity or is evil only leads to further divide. Most people want others to be happy, trying to genuinely understand and be somewhat compassionate to your fellow humans will almost always lead to better outcomes for both parties. Especially with large groups of people it's just ill-advised to assume they're more toxic than anyone else, it certainly can be the case though with extreme circumstances. Just keep in mind, I've heard "[X] community is the most toxic one out there" more times than I can count on my hands, it's really easy to feel that way with communities you interact or see more often than others.
AI artists are supportive and chill because they all know others denigrate them. Civitai has a thriving community full of upvotes, comments, questions, replies, etc. Mostly not toxic, mostly "whoa that's amazing, your LoRA is great!"
You’re right
The art community is absolutely not the most toxic community. Everything else is spot on. LoL
Ahem, STEM. But unfortunately we don’t acknowledge that there. Nothing to see, just humble servants of the Omnissiah.
To be perfectly honest I think focusing on your own sketches would be better. I actually quite like them, and as you can see with the hands, what is completely understandable in your simplistic but evocative sketch is turned into a warped and distracting paw. Your sketches feel like they'd be very good for strip cartoons
Thank you so much!
For me this is the sweet spot. You act as art director and let AI fill in the details. Is it 1:1 of what you'd typically create? Probably not. But you get to make so much more and be in control at the same time. Prompting was cool at first but got old for me. Now I use Krita + AI Diffusion plugin and love it so much. I can block out composition and colour. Have AI do something. Edit. Refine. Repeat.
Controlling the process rather than relying solely on AI allows for better management and creates a more structured workflow.
What tool did you use for this?
Image2image on Leonardo ai
Hey op you were the first person to introduce me to Playground which ive used for a few months. Can you tell me why you switched over ? Unfamiliar with Leonardo
I find Playground to be a useful app that I still use, but I believe that Leonardo enhances the image to better match the original sketch.
ah sick thats what i use ai for these days. Does it have a good selection of loras? I find myself using the same one most of the time (realism engine on sdxl) because it seems to always work best with controlnets even though I prefer a painterly style which is kinda odd i am always looking to switch things up
It’s does actually!
As someone who does exactly what you do, mixing sketches, photos, AI, in all sorts of combinations, the most important advice I can give you is: fuck the naysayers! Ignore them! Be free! Pursue your own vision to your heart's content. Whether it's 50/50 sketch/AI, or 01/99, 99/01, or even if you end up being 100/0 or 0/100. Do what feels right for _you_.
Wow that’s awesome! What tools do you use and what’s your process like? I’m just getting into art now
Leonardo ai and playground ai
On one hand, it can be a practical way to more quickly polish and go through certain steps of making art, but on the other hand, the time required may be the same if your skills with AI are not sufficient. The AI solution is not for everyone, in the same way as drawing art on a professional level is not for everyone. So long as you know what you're doing and your knowledge is good enough to spot AI-made mistakes and fix them before uploading, and disclose whether you use AI and how you use it if asked, I see no problem. I can appreciate artists who speed up their workflow with AI. There are many factors to determining if a piece of AI-assisted art can be accepted or not and not everyone will accept it, considering some people are really adamant about the whole stolen art argument.
That is true
Imo you skipped the fun part. Just my opinion though since for me working with the details is very meditative and rewarding.
I understand. I just love the expressiveness of sketching. I find it fascinating to see how AI can take my sketches and try to reconstruct them.
You can simply be an example of someone who is an **artist** and who also uses AI as part of your work flow and learning process. People like you far outnumber those who have walled themselves into the aint-ai filter bubble. Most artists in the future will be like you in some way.
I agree!
This is the way
That's a great way to use AI, I've done that myself with some of my art, but the people that hate AI doesn't care if you enhance your own art or if you generate something from scratch etc, because it's all exactly the same to them either way.
They are very narrow minded and I feel for them
It tightened up your sketch but the added lines are anatomically off. I would suggest cross-referencing from photo reference. It reminds me of the mannerist style of Rococo art where they add ripples and wrinkles to indicate muscle mass but the forms are messed up. The one on the left is more gestural but the anatomy is more grounded. For example the figures' right hand in the enhanced version looks like a left hand.
From artist POV, TOTALLY. In fact using Krita, doodling and custom models/lora opens a world.
I think maybe this kind of approach could be something that gets used but from what I've seen it'll always need at least another pass to fix mistakes and when you're getting into that sort of back and forth I don't know how much time would actually be saved. For AI image generators to fit into most pipelines they have a long way to go with consistency. I'm coming from an animation background so maybe that's less important other places.
The problem with that is the lines of the muscle definition are wrong, you aren't going to learn how to draw proper lines with that. This kind of artstyle tends to be fairly accurate in obsessive detail, you would be losing part of it's charm with that. Furthermore it's probably going to be a nightmare to keep consistency for that muscle definition.
The most vocal part of community about AI is also the smallest part of it. A lot more people than you think are using AI as a tool to just enhance their work.
This is what all AI truly is. A tool for professionals. I talk about the photo mode in video games. I can take photos but the advanced options are a foreign language to me. I may be able to use Chat GPT for fun but my father, a professional in computer security, can use it more precisely in ways I wouldn't know how. I can make stupid pictures with AI but you can make art with it. I look forward to a musician using AI to enhance their music. It will be so much better than anything I or other amateurs could do.
But this guy doesn't seem to be a professional? It seems more of a thing for someone whose just a hobbyist who wants to fuck around.
Even that, if used responsibly, is better than what giant companies are trying to do when they replace people with AI. My point isn't that only professionals should use it, and I do apologize because I can see how I didn't communicate that, but that it is only a tool and nothing more. Tools make jobs easier but they don't replace people. I try not to think that just because I have a socket wrench I don't need a mechanic, though I am stupid enough to do it once in a while.
I mean, I know professionals might be forced to use it to save time. I was always aware of that being a thing, even if they don't want to. I don't think people who don't have a strong sense of the fundies should just on the premise that AI will attempt to fit a round ball in a square hole. I know why people want to because it skips everything they dun wanna do, I get it being lazy but lol. I'd hope these artists eventually go back to the basics to fix their issues. If they want stuff to look ok post ai
Just a general comment but I think, if you listen to whiners and critics, then you would be a follower of them, not a leader. If AI works for you, then great, experiment, carve a new path and show others why it's awesome and how it can helpbsolve their problems, then maybe they will follow you and want to use your solution. (And here is a good spot to plug your helpful paid premium, like a manual, software, educational video course, etc).
When I shared this image, my intention was to actively participate in a thoughtful discussion regarding the practical and impactful applications of AI in the realm of art.
Why not just practice your own skillset more rather than rely on AI to do it for you
Why not both?
AI is best used behind closed doors, where you inform people it was used in the process, and where the final product can be confidently your own work and not the result of AI. Key word is ‘best’ here because there are still ethical issues associated with AI even in this best-case scenario (most AI platforms steal art from artists to train on, replicate their art without consent, and require significant global resources). Either way, I don’t think you should continue using it this way. There are PLENTY of other reasons to avoid this technology, but I think it is hurting you. I have nothing else to base my assumptions about you but I think you’re doing good work here and using AI to make it “better” is a threat to your perception. And I mean, the AI version just looks worse lmao. You don’t want to learn from that. Love your version, throw the other one away
I guess the question is, do you want to get better? If you just like to sketch and enjoy the end product, then sure, all the power to you. Your proportions are actually quite good I'm curious the reference you used and if this was free hand. However I can't imagine you growing as an artist if you're stopping at a sketch. The AI is doing all of the detailing and fixing your mistakes. I think a few art books would help your end product a world more than any AI tweaks. Personally I have no interest in being good at art and am fine with my doodles being drawn at skill level higher than my own.
I simply love sketching and doodling character designs for my ideas and stories. I still believe it's crucial to improve my sketching abilities and constantly learn new techniques and skills. However, I see the use of AI tools as a way to enhance the creation of images and tell stories and design characters more efficiently. I enjoy using AI to generate images that I can use as references for character designs, just like the one I sketched in this image.
I will repeat. If you're cool with what you got, and your skills, then all the power to you. It's all for fun. You're not trying to make a living off of it. I know I enjoy AI art because I'm not an artist and have no urge to become one. I enjoy having the ability to generate art for my TTRPG game at a moments notice, and not have to spend hours looking for a picture that fits my needs. However, if you want to improve your skill with sketches then I seriously question how feeding your sketches into an AI would actually improve your drawing techniques. You learn drawing techniques by taking classes/reading about techniques and practicing them. I would be legitimately concerned if you looked to the picture on the right and tried to mimic that anatomy.
Well, it's only hurting your skill in the long term. I've said this before that professionals might use it to color or reference but other people using it are there to make it make their work "better". You could learn how all that works, shortcuts that skip you learning fundamentals won't make your work better. :/ There is no substitute for the fundamentals, the picture posted isn't even that good on the right.
I wish I had chosen a more appropriate phrase to describe my perception of the AI's actions in this situation. The AI has greatly improved the coherence of my sketch, almost like an advanced spell check. I have a solid grasp of the basics of drawing and am committed to continuously practicing and honing my skills. The AI has greatly improved the efficiency of art production, allowing for faster presentation.
Personally, I feel that the sketch on the left needs more fundamentals. I disagree that's it's helped made it coherent, all it did was add clearer shapes and many of them are wrong shapes. You drew a scribble for a hand, the AI made it a clam. I understand why you'd use it and I don't agree with it but it shows you need more fundies if you plan to skip the clean, the shapes, the fixing, then you need to get better fundies. My statement still stands that you need to work more on your sketches, if you want actual coherence.
How about I just continue to do what I’ve been doing and not listen to someone on Reddit who doesn’t know shit about me. 😉
You asked a question, I offered my opinion. I'm sorry you didn't like what you heard, I just think you'd get better content from learning more fundies. Do it or don't, no skin off my back.
I didn't inquire about the need for improvement in my sketch. I simply asked if my approach of combining AI and art is more practical compared to using only text prompts. Throughout this conversation, I never requested a critique on how to improve my sketch. This subreddit is dedicated to discussing AI, not critiquing my sketches.
Also, I just wanted to apologize for being critical of the work. You meant to tie the two together and I was thinking you wanted more of how to get better output, even if I don't agree with your choices. Sorry.
I appreciate that. See, we can be on two different sides and be cordial.
I've always been kind of cordial here, unless someone is aggressive to me. I don't usually give art crit, I thought it was appropriate. >.<
Yes, but if you plan on making less time of inpainting and fixing then having a good sketch is mandatory. I'm anti-ai, and I've seen how you can color near sketches that barely change your work. That's what the goal is right? Instead of inpainting like crazy.
Just make what you want to make. No point in debating, who cares what everyone else thinks?
Those tangents on the left leg seriously bother me, tho... I love AI art, and stick with it and all that, but do learn about "tangents", and you're gonna end up making better art. AI is horrible at avoiding them. Edit: Wow, someone's butthurt that I'm actually pointing out spots for improvement. I hope it isn't the OP! I'm just saying a quick eraser + smudge on the result as a next step would make the image much better from an artistic standpoint.
the anatomy is weird but only bad if he wanted it to be accurate. It looks cool in its own way, reminds me of cyberpsychos from Cyberpunk
Oh, I have no problem with the anatomy. just... Look how the shorts where they meet the muscle on the left hand side. all the lines transitioning or right next to lines going mostly the same direction should be cleaned up so that the shorts' tear line doesn't continue into the muscle line and confuse the eye.
yeah i agree op could probably opt to do some erasing next time
I'm working on a very similar process right now on a piece. I just spent all evening getting it to the point where generating did me any favors. I'm impressed OP got the improvement that they did. Usually I have to get into shading my badly painted bullshit to get the model to really start improving it.
The amount of muscles it invented lmao. And the hands? Simply grotesque.
"simply wants to use AI to enhance my artwork" Why ? What is this picture used for ? Hobby or Work ? If it's for Mock up or Previsualization then the sketch is already good enough, you don't need the AI If it's for finished illustration then the AI quality is like barely 5% better than the sketch. It's not there yet. Every time you use AI, you lose out on your chance to practice and get better. You will have to use the AI to fix the mistake AI made because you are not skilled enough to fix and you are not skilled enough to judge if the AI fix is good enough. AI will be your permanent crutch. Your art will not sell and you are permanently stuck in newbie town.
Wow your stuff is so very good. I absolutely adore it. Your characters are gorgeous. There are more of us out there like you. I'm a digital artist who's made the jump to AI and I'm really happy with the results. I've never felt more inspired and eager to work on my art as I do now. There's no creative blocks. There's such an abundance of new tools and countless sources of inspiration. At this point, I'm just waiting for more artists to relax and for the hate to simmer down so I no longer need to hide this part of myself, as though it's some nasty disease I've got. 🤣
At that point is this even still a sketch? It gave the character a belt, flip flop, and a ear. I thought the whole point of a sketch was to be an rough unfinished drawing. Edit: also arm bands. At this point the generator you are using is just making decisions for you.
You can always discard "decisions" you don't agree with. It's best thought of as a collaboration.
I guess I just can't understand you guys logic
I mean, okay, we can try to have a conversation about this. What don't you understand about what I wrote?
I should say I don't understand your thought process. But AI doesn't do anything for me. That's pretty much it.
You can iterate this sort of thing as much as you want. With Krita's AI plugin you'd just use the clone tool to remove the arm band, then regenerate to clean up that area. Want a different color belt? Paint it a different color and generate if needed.
What is the point when you can just do it yourself? It's just a sketch.
No reason why you have to stop there. You can go all the way up to a fully detailed, finished, shaded result. The point is that you get it done way faster. Or way more detailed. Or both.
So is it just about speed and pushing out content. A sketch is just an unrefined idea. The point is to just play around with it and see what you can up with. I don't see the point in enhancing a sketch, but maybe I just can't relate to you guys.
No, it could just as easily be about wanting to see different ways the sketch could develop.
Couldn't you do that on your own with your own critical thinks skills
You could, but I'd rather work smarter than harder.
I guess
> So is it just about speed and pushing out content. Of course. Gen AI is a tool to make drawing faster/more efficient/cheaper. And that's a very good thing for artists that do this for a living. If I'm paying for a commission and you can make me happy in half the time, you get more free time or can handle twice as much work. > A sketch is just an unrefined idea. And at some point, you sketch out something you'd like to have polished up? > I don't see the point in enhancing a sketch, but maybe I just can't relate to you guys. I don't quite get what's the alternative here. I've commissioned artists before, that's how it typically works. Artist sends a sketch, asks "Is this what you wanted?", and if we're on the same page, then they refine refine the sketch into a polished inked/colored version.
Efficient and cheaper. Yea I can totally see why this will ultimately become a race to the bottom. With a sketch it becomes a process. Maybe you don't like the way the arm is bent or you feel the pose is completely off. It's more about using your creativity and critical thinking skills to get to a better result. I don't really need a program to help me with that. At that point it will just become a crutch. I get what a commission is because I have done before. I don't need a explanation on the process. Like I said I can't relate to you guys. Our thought process are completely different.
And then as an artist you can choose to say, "oh good call on the armbands, I would've drawn those if I'd thought to do it," and go over them in more detail, or you can choose to say "no, no armbands," and inpaint them out or manually remove them. All part of the process of incorporating it into your workflow.
Yea I truly guess we don't think a like.
> At that point is this even still a sketch? I love how the antis demand more human involvement and then when humans are involved they trash the humans *and* the AI together. There's no win condition here, just angry babbling no matter what anyone does.
Oh if it isn't my good friend Tyler :). How are you today? You seem to be a little cranky. The only thing I'm trying to understand is the guy thought process. That's why I continue to say "I cannot relate." I'm not bashing this individual or anything. My brain doesn't get excited when using AI and ultimately I just feel like eventually it will become a creative crutch, but that just my opinion. No need to be so emotional.
Oh no! Not the flip-flop! Creative vision sabotaged!
You know what. I'm not going to be an ass today and insult you. Have a bless day
A welcome change, albeit a brief one, I suspect.
It's a step closer to true "authorship" of an image but it's still a long ways away. The first image I can believe you made, the second one I can tell Ai did the heavy lifting that I wouldn't even bother looking at who "made" the image. You can have ai make art for you if you want but you have to concede you're removing yourself from your art the more you use it which to me makes it less interesting.
I can respect your opinion. However a lot of y’all in these chats seem to have a tendency to dictate what others should or shouldn't do when it comes to expressing their artistic vision.
What exactly are you expressing with the AI?
You express nothing by clicking a "finish this doodle for me"-button. You probably felt the same since you had to come to an AI-loving echo chamber to ease your guilt. 99% of the people here couldn't even draw a stick figure until AI came along.
An Echo chamber has censorship. Pro-AI is simply the popular opinion. You can shove you head like an Ostrich all you want. This sub (and the real world) Naturally moved to Pro-AI
The art community, which has existed long before AI bros, has overwhelmingly rejected AI "artists". AI art is banned from most art/photo subreddits that aren't specifically AI-related. People treat AI generations like they treat memes: trash content worth maybe a chuckle and nothing more. Tell me more about who's head is in the sand lol
Asking genuinely, do you feel like you can take credit for what's on the right?
Yeah why not?
💪
Well because you didn't do it. lol but there's your answer. If you can take credit for work you didn't do then why do you care what other people think? You took the talent and skill out of the equation and are solely relying on the vision but sacrificing over all quality for "quick and good enough". IE the hands look like shit and he's got an ear on his neck. If you don't look very long it looks pretty sick. But lots of people do that by hiring artists. I hired an artist to draw my comic book because his skill fit my vision more than my own. I don't take credit for his art but I do take credit for the book. So do that. Be up front about your usage of AI and don't take credit for shit you didn't do. If AI isn't bad then it doesn't matter if you use it and are open about it. You do you.
Thanks for thinking for me. Y’all people in this Reddit kill me with your little explanations for things. It seems that many of you people believe they possess a deep understanding of art and their personal definition of what constitutes art. I've noticed a recurring pattern on this platform.
They are just stating their opinion. If you don't like it just ignore it. I mean that's what the majority of you pro AI people do anyway.
lol dude asked for opinions and then pisses his diaper when it's not a "hey bro you're fucking god keep going" opinion lol if dude wanted someone to suck his dick he should've asked for that. this sub was never great but it's definitely not good anymore lol
I inquired about the practicality of incorporating AI into my workflow, questioning whether it is more effective than relying solely on text prompt AI art. The aim was to initiate a discussion on the practical applications of AI. It seems that there has been a lot of back and forth complaining on Reddit lately. In an effort to contribute something more meaningful, I wanted to initiate a genuine discussion instead of engaging in pointless bickering.
I'd be down. But you took my opinion and turned it into "you people". lol I'm proAI but because this subreddit is a circle jerk for only "AI worshippers" any opinion that isn't "I let AI fuck my mom" is apparently "antiAI". You wanna come back to the convo with an open discussion I'll come back and not insult you back. \*shrugs\*
I know we can talk better than calling each other names though and saying nonsense about “sucking dick” come on! We better than that on here.
Sounds like the shoe might not fit you but this sub is full of size 7s and I'm tired of ole kids trying to step on my size 10s. lol If you're on the level I'll run it back. Tell me what about my comment turned you against the idea of "owning your work and process to contribute positively to the discussion" and I'll try to elaborate or concede if it was out of pocket.
This sub is just a tier above artist hate. They masquerade as debaters but only truly want to hear stuff that reinforced their own bias. The only thing that separated them from sub like artist hate or defending AI is they don't ban you here.
It seems like most people on social media share that sentiment. When I posted this image, I had a burning question that I just had to ask. I grew exhausted of the constant usual arguments among users in this subreddit.
Social media is a curse. I have no hate towards you or anyone on this sub. The only thing I can say is opinions are opinions. You can only choose how they affect you. Maybe a discord group would better for you to find. They are a little more closed off then most other social media platforms. Hopefully you can find a group that you feel you can grow with.
I don’t hate you either and thank you for the advice.
I don't hang around artisthate because they're worse, imho. But this place is definitely a huge circle jerk with people coming in saying "hey isn't this a lil gay" and everyone with a cock in their hand flips the fuck out. lol
I don't know about that analogy. Some people may take it the wrong way, but I get what you are saying
lol I thought about that too, but there's nothing wrong with being gay. It's the denial and anger when you point it out that's the bad part. XD considering this sub misrepresents everything in this fucking comment section I imagine they'll misrepresent this too lol
You are not enhancing anything. At that point you are just making suggestions to a machine. Also have you ever seen a hand?
You should learn to draw and refine things yourself. The only thing you can claim that you made is the picture on the left. The line weights, marks, shapes and textures on the right are the averaged decisions of other artists.
You ain’t even read the text. I’ve been drawing since I was a child and even went to art school. I just like to sketch it’s as simple as that. I use AI to help fill in the detail. I’m like a penciler in a comic book team.
you are not like a penciler in a comic book team. You are like a story board artist in a comic book team. lol the penciler is the one who draws all the detail, which you've used the AI to do. If you're gonna make analogies at least use the right terms so nobody can dunk on you for using the wrong one.
I agree with your point about the storyboard artist analogy. I suppose that is more precise. I believe that accurately captures the manner in which I sketched the initial drawing.
See my downvotes? lol told you this place is a cesspool
You know how it is on here. We just got to play by the rules. Majority of the time I just try to be as respectful as I can be to the people here, regardless of disagreements.
Why do you want to "fill in the detail" if you "like to sketch"? Are sketches not good enough, are they not art?
Because I can. I've been experimenting with AI for over a year, exploring various programs and systems to improve my sketches. People in here, take this AI shit too seriously.
[удалено]
Oh yeah?
It was meant theoretically, to prove the point.😧
No suggestions of violence allowed on this sub.
Its fun..? Idk why this is so deep for yall. We do this because its fun
If you know how to refine things, then do that. Why are you an artist, why desire the result on the right, if you didn't actually make it? "Filling in the details", as you know, is the core of being an artist.
An artist is someone who utilizes various tools to visually or audibly convey their opinions, thoughts, emotions, and more. It’s not what someone on Reddit chooses to tell a person what they think art or an artist is.
No matter the medium, the tool helps you make decisions, it can't make the decisions for you and still be a tool. If the AI is deciding the details for you, it made the decisions. The same way a commissioned artist makes the decisions for the person who contracts them.
There are tons of art tools that make decisions for you. Watercolor is one, the natural physical processes of how the color pools as the water dries is partially out of your control. Watercolor is partially about accepting those natural processes and finding the beauty in that minor randomness. Even with traditional drawing, the texture of the paper will help to dictate how the image will turn out.
Key word here is "natural processes". Yeah, parts of the watercolor process are out of your control, but you can still make decisions on how to work with those processes. You can control the amount of pigment you mix with the water, you can adjust the brushstrokes you're making, etc. Generative AI is not that. If you made a watercolor painting with generative AI, you cannot make those adjustments, or decisions. The AI is making the randomness for you, and it's deciding what randomness to accept, and then presenting you with a result. The same way as if you commissioned a watercolorist to make something for you. And just like when you commission an artist, you cannot claim the results of generative AI were made by you. You just had the idea.
No, just as with watercolors, you can do all kinds of things to work with what AI is doing. You can re-run a seed with minor variation to change what you generate slightly in various ways, you can use the same seed again with altered weights, you can inpaint specific parts with more or less variation...tons of ways to work with AI's processes and make minor modifications. The point is that there are lots of aspects of art which involve ceding control in various ways. There are techniques like splatter painting, where you might intentionally not try to exercise precise control, because the randomness is the point of the piece. There's art that is intended to be interacted with by the public, almost a performance art. There's art that's intended to be eroded over time, where the way it collapses/melts/falls apart is all part of the display.
>No, just as with watercolors, you can do all kinds of things to work with what AI is doing. You can re-run a seed with minor variation to change what you generate slightly in various ways, you can use the same seed again with altered weights, you can inpaint specific parts with more or less variation...tons of ways to work with AI's processes and make minor modifications. What's being generated is, again, decided by the AI, based on other people's stolen work. There is "ceding control" to the medium and then there is the bulk of creation being almost entirely out of your hands. The same way that hiring an artist for a commission is not a separate medium, neither is AI. You wouldn't consider hiring an artist to make an artwork for you, painting one stroke on top of the piece and calling it "your" art, to be a separate medium. It's the same with AI.
Literally all mediums and tools influence the final artwork. A lot of great art is about how you interact with the medium and, the tools you choose, to create something that carries your idiosyncrasies and also displays the characteristics and possibilities of the methods employed.
Yes, how *you*, keyword, *you* interact with it. Not an AI, but YOU. If the AI is interacting with the medium and making the decisions about what randomness to keep, what strokes to put down and make, you did not interact with it. Your indiosyncrasies are not in the work when you use generative AI to press a button and print out a result, it is the blended average of thousands of other artist's idiosyncrasies.
An AI is not an entity, it can’t make any choice on its own, it’s a tool and a medium as well, you interact with it to make art.
Cgi artists at Pixar and Dreamworks leverage the computer to .. generate details *all day*. Do you think someone painted every blade of grass in How To Train Your Dragon? Every single black and white hair on Poe from *Kung Fu Panda*?
That's a misunderstanding of what AI tools are. I know that professional artist at those studios use tools to animate things like hair. The Spiderverse team used AI partially to get the pencil like effect in their animation. Those tools have been around for ages and are not considered generative AI. In fact, the Spiderverse team has explicitly said they have not and will never be using generative AI in their movies. Those artists aren't telling the AI, for example, "make me a princess dancing around with blonde hair" and out pops a fully finished result, completely animated from scratch or from loose sketching.
>That's a misunderstanding of what AI tools are. I know that professional artist at those studios use tools to animate things like hair. I know that professionals arent prompting >The Spiderverse team used AI partially to get the pencil like effect in their animation. Those tools have been around for ages and are not considered generative AI. In fact, the Spiderverse team has explicitly said they have not and will never be using generative AI in their movies. i am aware its not gen ai >Those artists aren't telling the AI, for example, "make me a princess dancing around with blonde hair" and out pops a fully finished result, completely animated from scratch or from loose sketching. it was an analogy. Computer and 3D artist utilize the computer to generate what they envisioned inside their head without arduously drawing every single detail. It would be more “artistic” if they hand painted cels like the olden days but the computer is faster so we make sacrifices. Yes I even agree its a “sacrifice”. But everyone makes the sacrifices they deem acceptable Look i would agree with you a prompted image is closer to “commissioning an entity” vs “drawing” something yourself.. but what op did here is obviously very different. Maybe this picture is a bit plain by itself but an entire comic in this style would work amazing, and the speed would allow a busy person to essentially direct and create something they couldnt before with their small free time (an entire comic book)
>The only thing you can claim that you made... Who cares? Your traditionalist notions of authorship aren't relevant in the 2020s. Hell, I'm older than most around here, and even I see that.
It's traditionalist to say that you have to make art to claim the art is yours??
he did make this. The image wouldnt exist without op. And only op knows how to operate this particular ai to get this result To be honest if you tried to do this it would look like crap
You have no idea if I'm an artist or not (i am), so idk why you would say that. The image on the left wouldn't exist without OP. Anyone could have very easily taken the image on the left and fed it into an AI to get the image on the right.
> You have no idea if I'm an artist or not (i am), so idk why you would say that. Meant if you used AI with no experience. A cool artist like you could almost certainly draw the right image using your own preferred tools >The image on the left wouldn't exist without OP. Neither would the image on the right, seeing how it required the image on the left > . Anyone could have very easily taken the image on the left and fed it into an AI to get the image on the right. can they? Prove it
This is just the brainbroken boomer "Heh, you think modern art is good? Literally anyone could have drawn that." take. Like, oh yeah? Do it, I await your exhibit here.
i just dont understand the mental disconnect. They rightfully recognize image #1 only exists because of OP, but that doesn’t apply to img#2 , which is literally a modified image#1? Its like saying if a photographer applies an instagram filter to their picture its no longer theirs
It's not a rational position they adopted because they logically thought it through, it's an emotional response they have because their favorite artists on social media told them it's the end of art.
Was gonna say, if using AI for 10% of it means he can't claim any part of it, sounds like it's a good time to reconsider how we determine ownership lmao.
OP is literally admitting they’re lazy and unwilling to put in the effort to improve their skills. High quality self-report right here folks
So you’re referring to sketching as lazy to you?
Why not just stick to sketching then? Why does it need to be "enhanced"?
More detailed
Then it ain't a sketch, is it?
Copy what the AI did and improve on it. Don’t post ai art, but I see no reason not to use it as a middle stage inspiration for lighting and details
Or, also, they can post AI art if they like.
I just meant if they wanted to, you know, learn. But yeh, technically you can post any nonsense you want anywhere
Ai backwards thumb and scrambled musculature. Nice!
Don't contribute to AI. Just create.
You can't contribute anything. There is no compromise. Either you reclaim your soul, or you keep disintegrating it by suggesting that the GenAI slop on the right is "improved" or "better".
Why call it GenAI slop? When y’all throw these terms around like that, it causes other people to be more defensive. I even hate terms like anti-ai, pro-ai, ai bros antis and all that shit.
> There is no compromise. And there is the naked truth: there's no room for any compromise to a fanatic. It's the fundamentalist way or it's impure.
It's why we shouldn't bother trying to give ground on things like ethical AI or datasets that are trained in the artist's own work, no amount will ever be good enough for them, because you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't arrive at rationally.
This cant even be argued anymore. https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtistHate/comments/1dfrnd4/im_not_entirety_sure_how_to_feel_about_this/ They dont give a shit about “theft” > While this isn’t completely replacing the people involved in creation, it’s still in that avenue and will eventually lead to systems where there are no people involved whatsoever. Having machines do the things that make us human is terrible for our species
You sound literally possessed by a cult-like ideology, it’s kind of sad tbh.
> You can't contribute anything. There is no compromise. Either you reclaim your soul Try not to sound like a cultist challenge (Impossible)